Welcome to the Functional Tennis Podcast.

I'm your host Fabio Molle and I bring you insights and lessons from players, coaches, parents and experts who are ingrained in the world of high level tennis.

Today I speak to 24 year old Dutch player Jesper De Jong.

Jesper has had a linear rise in ranking since going pro and is currently sitting outside the world's top 100.

He talks about personal milestones, qualifying for his first slam in Melbourne 12 months ago, as well as playing Sinner and Alcross and being part of the Dutch team that reached the Davis cup final in November.

I and more.

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Okay, here is Jesper.

Hi Jesper, how are you?

Welcome to the Functional Tennis Podcast.

I'm good.

Thank you for allowing me to be here.

Thanks for taking the break off a bit of training.

And tell me how's pre season gone going?

It's going well.

First time we're doing it in Bali.

I don't think many, many players have done it before but there's some nice places to do it.

And yeah, every time after practice you go either to the beach, to the sunset or you chill in the pool or whatever and the vibes are just amazing here and we have been working very hard and can't wait for the new season.

It's a bit of a holiday destination.

I'm sure plenty of people think you're on holidays but how do you, are you so tired from practice?

How do you resist the holiday temptations when you're out there?

Yeah, it was good.

I had some eight days of holiday before going here, before starting the preseason trainings and yeah, it helped kind a little bit and I was so ready to go again and that's what helped me a little bit.

And of course in the evenings you go out for dinner or you what I said on the days off you go to a nice beach club but you're with a lot of guys and we rented out a very nice villa so we, yeah, we can chill there and it feels, yeah, after practice it feels like the holiday but we are, yeah, we are making the best out of it.

And does you have A villa with the other guys you have with you there and your team.

Does that make it feel, you know, it's like a team effort.

Does that, does that help during pre season when it's not just you and your physical trainer and coach grinding out there?

Yeah, you're pushing each other and one day one guy is not feeling well.

Of course in Bali the sickness is around the corner.

You have to be careful with the food and one day one guy is a little bit more sick and then you push each other and whatever.

But the team spirit is good and hopefully we don't play each other first round in the next tournaments.

But yeah, it's very nice what you say to, to, to practice with a team and yeah, the team building is good.

Okay, now let's, let's go back to the early years.

When did tennis begin for you?

It began in, yeah, my, my mom, she used to work at like a fitness center where you had squash, squash as well, squash courts, you had a gym, you had a pool, you have a sauna, wellness, whatever and tennis courts, obviously.

But then I, yeah, would go, go and then I would get a little small racket and I would play for hours against the squash wall.

And from there I got asked by the local tennis guy, the club trainer to join the practices there.

And yeah, that's how it kind of started.

We are not from like a tennis family.

My mom didn't play, my dad didn't play.

So yeah, it all came out of that, I think.

But you had, you probably had good hand eye coordination as a young kid.

It just clicked.

It should be, they, they, they saw it pretty quick and no, but I really enjoyed the game and that's what I, yeah, what, what helped me to, to where I am now, I think.

Where, when did it get serious for you as a junior?

Yeah, I used to play football as well.

And then I think around 11, 12 or something.

I, yeah, I had to make the choice between tennis or football and then I made the choice.

I'm really happy about the choice I made.

I think equal I was as good as tennis, as good as football.

So it was a very tough choice.

But I'm really happy I made the decision for, for tennis and then it got a little bit more serious and from graduation, I think when I was 17, I started to play full time tennis and then it gets the most serious you can get.

And did you finish daytime school?

Did you go to an actual physical school or did you have online education?

Yeah, no, I did go to a physical school.

It's Pretty important for, for Dutch.

Their, yeah, their grow up phase.

The parents are like really strict.

Most of the parents are really strict on school.

If you have your degree like your degree is important and if you have your degree you can, they always said if you have your degree you can do whatever you want.

And then yeah, then I started to play full time tennis.

So.

Yeah.

But I went to a physical shooting school.

That's good to hear because usually, you know, we hear so many kids.

I go to these junior tournaments where they're all doing online school and you're like, you know, you lose a bit but I think you definitely lose some good skills.

And yeah, the social, social skills on, on, on school that you learn are quite important.

And, and yeah, what, yeah, it's, it's more in the, in other countries we, we hear that, that the online school is a little bit more popular than in Holland.

We don't do that a lot.

And tell me, were you training was it beside your home?

I had some different places but then at the federation, I think from, from my ninth, ninth year I, I started to practice once or twice a week with the Federation and then I went a little bit far, like 20 minutes drive or whatever.

It's not now everything in Holland is pretty close.

So that's a good thing.

And now everybody's practicing in Amsterdam at the National Training center.

So that's a good thing about Holland being so small that everything is a little bit like it's compact.

So that's good.

I did see, I think I posted a video you a couple of months ago training in the training center.

It's a beautiful setup.

It looks really amazing.

It is a beautiful center.

Yeah, we have four indoor courts.

Not the most courts I think with other federations, but it's a beautiful setup.

We have an amazing gym, we have amazing location.

It's like 10 minutes from the airport.

We have outdoor hardcore with outdoor clay and it's just a beautiful center.

So we are really happy with that.

Great.

And before you finished school did you visit decision to go to play college tennis?

Was that ever in the, in happening?

It was, it was actually I, I visited Alabama and that's.

Yeah, that was, it was a serious, serious consideration.

But at the end I was not really feeling comfortable going and then the federation came to me and they, they want to.

Offered me, offered me a good contract that they wanted to, to help me at the start of my career to, to help me financially and to add a coach with me.

And yeah, at the end I, yeah, I'm really Happy.

I didn't make the college choice, but it was a serious, serious option for me.

Yeah, nice.

And what, what was your junior ranking?

Did you play many junior tournaments?

Didn't I?

I did play a lot of junior tournaments.

I think I played seven Grand Slams and I think I got, I need, I need to be careful here, but I think around 30, 25, 30 ish.

It was not like the best of the best, but it was, yeah, it was, it was solid.

I, I, I'm happy I played seven Slams and that's, that's get let, get comfortable quick on the, on the Slams when it was the real deal, you know.

And I think it's, it's a really good thing that the juniors are allowed to play on the real deal.

What players, your age group do you remember from back then who have made the transition now a lot?

We had a lot of, I think Sebastian Baez was with us, Musetti was with us, Draper was with us.

I, yeah, I, I'm, I'm, there's a lot, I'm forgetting a couple, but there were a lot and there were, sometimes I go check out like from 2018 on the resultina app who were in our draws, you know, and who made it and who didn't.

And it's pretty funny to see that quite a lot of players actually made it to the top and still good that you're competing against each other.

Who's the most special player after that?

You would have taught back then.

That kid has to make it.

Sebastian Baez, that's one guy that I didn't think that would go so far.

I think it's incredible that he has done what he has done already and with his length, with his body or like with his playing style, it's incredible that he has made it so far and he was number one in the world.

But yeah, Thomas Maczak was with us as well.

I beat him in Triagen in 2018 or something like 1 and 2 and after he kicked my ass every time.

Yeah, they were quite special, special guys in there.

Nice.

Yeah, that was the next question I was going to ask you.

Who made it?

That was never going to make it, but obviously.

Well, I wouldn't say never going to make it, but I wouldn't say like, okay, he's going to be top 20 in two years, you know.

But yeah, he's done something special and props to him.

What is just as I think of it now, I've only ever asked a guest one or two times this over the course of 200 plus episodes.

What is making it to you?

I think everybody has their go.

Yeah.

For me, the goal is now for top 100.

Some other guys.

I'm not saying that I'm not dreaming big.

For sure not.

But you have to be honest to yourself as well.

It would be weird if I say, okay, my goal is top 10 next year or whatever, but I think if you are coming close to your goals, if you're making your goals, then I think you're making it.

And maybe Sebastian Baez would have have said, okay, top 100 was my goal first as well when he was a junior and now he is having a tough season if he is 50, you know, and that's, that's, that's.

Yeah, that's always with tennis, but I think, yeah, making it.

I think if you are around the top hundred, top fifty, whatever you are, you're.

Yeah.

You made it pretty far in the tennis game.

Yeah, true.

And as a kid, what was your dream as a tennis player?

Was it be like number one the world, or were you realistic back then as well?

Yeah, I was.

I was pretty realistic, realistic kid.

And I wouldn't say if you would have asked like trainers or coaches or whatever, like, okay, this guy is going to be 103 at the age of 24.

When they said it back when I was 12 or 13, they would say, no, no, it's not going to happen.

But yeah, it's good.

I always said the top 100 is like my ultimate goal.

I was pretty close with it and I'm pretty confident I'm going to make it.

But that's.

Yeah, that's always a tricky, tricky thing.

But yeah, it's.

Yeah, that's.

The top 100 is like a good, good, very good goal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And going by your rankings, it's kind of.

You've had textbook rankings.

What you'd like to see, you know, you've gone from 1100 to 426 to 300 to 220.

A little dip.

Were you injured?

An injury I got.

Yeah, I had the mono disease.

I don't know if you know it.

Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I went down a little bit.

Some, some.

Some mental issues.

Yeah.

Then you cannot just can't compete.

I, I lost 10 kilos and yeah, six, seven, eight kilos and yeah, you cannot compete.

And then it went a little bit down.

But, but what you said, it's gone up quite smoothly as.

Yeah, linear.

Yeah.

152, then 112, you know, like.

So hopefully 2025 will be, you know, you make more I think that maybe the jumps get smaller but.

But you're not far.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Sometimes you need to have 40 more points for like two steps or two places.

So that's going to be tough.

Why has this happened?

Like what's the secret to this linear progression for you if you break it down?

Yeah, just like keep working on the things in your game.

Don't do like the special weird things.

Just keep working hard and yeah it's pretty standard to say but it's what I've been believing all the time and yeah at some point you are believing in yourself.

Okay, I can make it at some point.

I won a challenger title when I was 21 and I didn't expect it at all.

At some point it clicked and then all of a sudden you are 160 and I was like okay, that's pretty high.

And yeah then just working on the things on your game and finding the right flow of working finding the right people around you and now I'm in pretty good space and yeah hopefully taking that linear line up and you've obviously.

Taken care of your body and also being part of the Dutch Federation they must give you like to give you coach a trainer and maybe other help as well which it's like you have a big team which I'm sure a lot of players don't have luxury of.

Yeah now I'm not working with federation anymore.

They helped me from my.

Yeah from my 16 till last year which I'm incredible grateful for that they helped me so well and obviously it wouldn't be possible to have like a full time coach every time if they weren't there.

So they, they helped me like they were, they were a huge part of my career and now I'm.

Yeah I'm making good money to, to have my own team and that's a little bit of.

Yeah that's a good freedom to have and that you're just deciding who you.

Yeah we are hiring or, or not hiring.

Yeah and now yeah I, now I've two coaches for myself for which I'm paying myself so that's good.

Yeah it was.

Who's em lately has stopped using the LTA trainer to get her own trainer full time which makes a lot of sense because they can be witch all the time.

You're not shared with anybody and I, I think that will give.

Yeah that's, that's a good move you've made there.

It's, it's a little bit of freedom you, you get and you're not like yeah you are your own boss.

Obviously it's my career, but still, if, if the, like, the federation is helping with, with, with the financial situation, uh, they have some talks with it, you know, they have, but now.

And I've been good with the Federation all the time.

That, that's not, I'm not saying like that we had some issues or whatever, but it's giving a lot of freedom.

Yeah, yeah.

And so tell me, last year, after how many years?

Like six, seven years?

Six years, you got to your first Grand Slam, you qualified in Melbourne.

What was the feeling like?

Yeah, it's a big relief.

I would say it was close for.

Yeah, for not happening again.

I had a match point at 5, 5, 4 in the third set.

Some way.

I didn't get that one.

It was a crazy point.

And then he got to serve for the match at 6, 5 in the third, broke him back and then won 10, 7 in the super tiebreak.

So, yeah, that was, yeah, meant to be, I think.

And yeah, it was.

Yeah, there was so much relief going on there and it, it helped me qualifying for the French Open after again, I think the, yeah, the pressure was off, I would say.

And yeah, it was a very good run.

Yeah.

Wins like that where obviously, you know, you, you're emotionally all over the place, I'm sure.

Must mean so much more than, like, you take your first match point, it's great.

But maybe to, to do it, save a match, you know, win a match point, then you know, you're under pressure, the guy's serving for it, and then you come back.

It must make it a little sweeter.

It was, yeah, it's, it's, it's a bit pretty good.

Yeah.

Story you can tell.

And that's, that's, it's, it's maybe even more fun or better story than I would have won two and two or whatever.

And it's.

Yeah, it makes the story complete.

And you got a little tattoo for yourself, did you?

Yeah, yeah, I had this, this line on my, on my arm and it was, it was still open.

I put it like in half year before and I said, okay, if I'm qualifying for a main draw, I'm going to put a little star in it, like to, to complete the circle with, with the ashes of my grandpa in it, because it was a, like a very, the two of us.

And that's.

Yeah, that, that, that was, that was happening after, after sailors.

That was pretty fun.

Yeah.

Is that the end of the tattoos or will there be more for special occasions?

I think there will be More.

But I'm, yeah, I'm have to be careful with it.

Had, had you guys have won the Davis cup would have been a tattoo then.

Could have been, could have been.

Yeah, that would have been, that would have been something else.

Yeah, the Davis cup was pretty crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah, tell us about that.

What was it like being part of the team?

It must have been a crazy experience.

It was, it was not gonna lie that, that whole lead up to it as well, because we were playing Spain and Rafa announcing that he was going to retire against US ticket prices going up to €10,000 a ticket.

We were like, okay, what are we going to expect?

You know, so many celebrities coming in.

At the end, it did hold up a little bit.

Like they, they wanted to come later in the week.

They, they were expecting a little bit that they were going.

But yeah, it was, it was crazy that, that match against, that Spain against Rafa and Alcaraz, winning against those guys and then beating Germany and then all of a sudden you're in the final of the Days cup and that's even in Bologna.

If you would have said it in Bologna the day before we played Italy because we needed only one more match and we were, yeah, we could have ended fourth in the group if we didn't win the, the, the doubles against Italy and all of a sud in the final.

Yeah.

And yeah, the guys did an incredible job and I was, I was yeah, the, the biggest cheerleader for them in the stadium.

But yeah, no, I, I, I hope that did my, did my best and I was ready if I would have played.

But yeah, they, yeah, the guys were obviously they're higher and they're more experienced and yeah, it's, I was happy to be part of the team.

Yeah.

Did you come out of that experience learning one big key message?

Yeah, that's, it's always what people say it must be so good being there.

And I didn't really think about it that way.

We just wanted to win.

And for me, it was no different than being on a slam.

You know, it was like the same players and the same, and it was just a different atmosphere.

And that's, it's not something that I would learn from it or something, but yeah, it's, that's, everything is pretty much possible like we have, yeah.

Talon is 40 in the world.

Bodick is 80 in the world.

Wesley is then so, so high up in the, in the, in the ranking, but retiring so, and then we, we end up being the second best nation in the world.

And that's, yeah, Then everything is pretty much possible in that format.

It's crazy.

And going into the final.

Is that how you pronounce his name?

Paul Harajis?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did Talon played Sinner, was it?

Or did.

Yeah.

What's he like?

Sinners untouchable at the moment.

That and Talent put up a great match against them.

What's he saying?

What's.

What's he saying to change him?

Like just play your game.

Or is.

Yeah, you have to full.

You have to go in full.

You have to go for 110 against Sinner.

And we knew that he did.

Did.

And still losing this set.

I think he played one of the best sets of the year.

I think Talent.

And yeah, still he loses seven, six had two break points which were a little bit unlucky with.

But still we have the feeling we.

We said it as well that Sinner can just bring something extra.

You see it in the tie break.

You see.

You see it against Alcaraz.

Talent.

Yeah.

Played a tiebreak against Alaras as well.

And he just brings something extra, you know.

And yeah, that's.

That's pretty.

And then, yeah, if he wins that direct.

You are.

You are almost with 2, 2, 2ft in the grave.

Yeah, yeah, it's tough.

And what about Wesley Kulhoff's retiring?

Crazy.

Like, you know, it's so hard to retire at the top of the game.

He's so good.

And what are your thoughts on that?

Should he tell him he shouldn't retire or.

He heard it a lot of times that week.

Don't be.

Yeah, don't be scared of that.

He heard it a lot of times.

Even.

Even Sinner said it in the elevator.

Why are you retiring?

You played so good against Spain.

But I think it's what he said as well.

He's ending with a big, big high and that's I think something he will cherish on forever.

But still everyone said, okay, you're making $1.5 million in your last year.

Why you play one more year and you play make so much money.

But if it's good, the career is finished.

The career is finished.

And yeah, you can only respect that choice.

Did.

He got married recently, didn't he?

Yeah, he did a couple days ago.

Yeah.

Great.

So he's.

He's happy.

He's probably.

You'll see him in a few years.

He be big guy, you know, never playing tennis again.

No, but what's.

He was a footballer.

Was.

Was he a good footballer?

Did I hear that?

I.

I don't know.

Maybe his father, his Father.

Yeah, maybe it's that.

So you're, you're like close to breaking into the top hundred from what you've seen playing those guys and the guys who haven't broke in.

I know you guys can all play the level, you can all hit as hard as each other.

That's not a problem.

But what's the one characteristics that really defines somebody who's consistently in the top hundred and somebody consistently not in the top hundred?

Yeah, what you, what you said as well, the consistency.

I think we can hope what you said as well, we can all hit the ball.

The level I played against Alcaraz and French Open is something.

Yeah.

A level that I want to play every week.

If I played at level every week I would have been higher as well.

But it's, it's not a choice that I make that I'm okay today.

I'm going to play like against Okras or.

That's that's the thing about sport, you never know.

And that's, that's something that the top guys do like.

Well, their, their base level is so, so high or their peak level is so high.

Some players you have, they are 20 weeks a year they are playing quite bad but the 10 weeks they play well they are, they are peaking and then.

Yeah, and then you're high up in the ranking.

But I think for me the consistency in the whole year is something I did very well.

This actually in 2024 only lost a couple first rounds and yeah, the rest is yeah.

Making it to the, to the end stage of the tournament.

In the, in the challenges you don't get rewarded very much in the, in the quarterfinal, semi, final, you need to make the final or win the tournament.

And that's something.

Yeah, I need to, to do a little bit better next, next year.

And the, the ranking, the, the points thing in 2024 didn't help you out either, did it?

I would have been higher if the, the, the, the, the, the points were the same as the year before, that's for sure.

Yeah, but that's, that's been a big problem like a known problem with, with the, with the challenger guys that nobody is happy with it.

Yeah but we cannot do anything about it.

We, we set it to the ATP and now it's yeah.

Their choice what they're doing with.

Yeah, tough and yeah going back to the peaks.

What I've figured out is that the peak and the valley, let's say between the, the higher you go up, the smaller that is.

So yes, they can play well for a Lot longer.

But their bad days aren't so bad.

Whether the lower you go down the rankings, the bad days are really bad.

Yeah, exactly what I said.

The base level of the guys is just pretty high and, and that's what you, what you want in your own game is as well.

And what was it like playing Alcaraz?

It was pretty fun.

That was pretty fun.

Yeah, I was pretty nervous in the start because you don't against Sinner was a lot of fun as well, but I just got blown away.

It was 3 times 62.

It was a great experience, but I had no chance at all.

And then against Alcaraz I played actually a very good match.

I came up 20 in the first set, hit dropshirt winner to break him and all of a sudden I was in a batt.

And then.

Yeah, it was, it was a really fun match.

Taking a set of him, making it really tough for him.

Obviously I, he.

He wouldn't be as sharp against me or, or the next match.

You know, he played the next match against Korda or something and he beat him three, three and one or something.

Yeah, I think he, he was a little bit sharper than against me but still I, I made him a.

Yeah, I made him it his time pretty, pretty hard and yeah, I'm proud of that.

Yeah, that's the time you got to take them, you know, when they're not sharp.

You got to be, you got to be sharp.

But, but how much?

It must ease the nerve so much if you know, you, if you get a good start, you win the first game, you get an early break or you hold like you, I'm after holding here.

I'm not gonna get, I'm not gonna get bagel today.

And all of a sudden, you know, it just change.

It's.

It's amazing the way it just changes everything.

That first gets game.

Yeah that, that first game and I remember that like, like hitting a foreign winner to hold my own own game.

That was, that was quite a relief because you don't want to get five zero down in the first 20 minutes, you know.

And then you can make yourself up for a good, good beat down.

And you have 15000 people sitting there and you, you just wanna, yeah, you wanna do good.

Yeah, you wanna show what you're made of.

And, and not that you're like a local guy who gets sent off like six, three times six wonder or something, you know.

And.

Yeah, and, and the spectators think you're like really bad, but they don't understand that like the the, the, the people around the 100, 150, they're such great tennis players because everyone says, oh yeah, he got the number 120, got a set of Holocross or what.

Like they, they always.

The people outside of the top hundred, it's a little bit of stigma that they are not really good.

But yeah, that's, that's a bad thing.

Yes.

And that has to change.

And so Alcaraz, Sinner, maybe tell us really quickly the difference between two of them when you're on the opposite end of the court.

Well, Sinner plays just the tempo is just incredible high.

The speed, the speed of the, I wouldn't say the ball strike speed, but like the time he takes away from you, it's just incredible.

His, his movement skills are so good that yeah, you're pushing yourself so much to hit a good ball and then you're just forcing.

I was more impressed by Sinner than by Alcaraz, but that's I think the matchup as well.

I think I like to play a little bit more against Alcaraz with the conditions as well.

On, on a clay court.

And then in against Sinner, I was playing on indoor hard, which isn't my, my favorite because it was raining so the roof got closed.

Yeah.

And then playing against someone playing like that, it's pretty tough.

Yeah.

Sinner, indoor hard is his territory.

Really.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If he played every match out there and yeah, you can see it this year is pretty, pretty much unbeatable for.

The rest of the guys, but great to play them.

Like for you to have played both of them, it just gives you something to work on and a reference for next time you played them.

At least you know better how to plan or, you know, you can train for that.

Yeah, it's, it's not new anymore.

I wouldn't say I'm going to beat them next, next four or five times, but, but it's, it's, it's not new anymore.

And that's the thing, what I said about juniors as well, playing the, playing the Grand Slams, it's the first time what's happening over here.

It's, it's so, it's so everything's.

Yeah, it's huge.

The, the site is huge.

So many players, so many spectators.

And if you are there for the second, third time here, it's not weird anymore.

Yeah, no.

Great.

Okay, we're gonna kick off with a few more short questions left for you to also quite.

One fight, one answer.

Sorry, one word, quick answer questions.

But they're quick Enough.

Okay.

You may have answered this one for me already, but who's the boss?

You or your coach?

Me.

Why?

At the end of the day, I am the boss, obviously, but I'm, that's, that's the funny thing we were talking about.

I am paying.

That's not, not normal with a job, I'm paying someone else to say what I have to do.

And with a normal job, that's not happening like that.

So that's not.

I would say we have a very good relationship with each other.

I wouldn't say that.

The, the, the, the term boss a little bit.

Yeah, it's a little bad stigma.

It's just.

Yeah, he, he, he, he just says what I need to do and what he thinks is the best for me and, and I, I completely, fully trust in about it.

Nice.

What have you given up the most to be here today?

Yeah, just a regular life.

I wouldn't say that's as something giving up.

I just chose a different path and for me that was the path to the them.

Yeah.

Okay.

I heard this another podcast during the week on Is it Isner's podcast where I thought it was a great question.

Would you take $20 million or a grand Slam title?

I heard that one as well.

No, I think a Grand Slam title.

Well, it went down a little bit with, with, with, with the money all of a sudden.

But I, I heard someone, yeah, your first Slam title is worth 10 million.

10, 12 million.

Going with the win sponsorships and, and attention you get.

Say Grand Slam title for sure.

Okay, good answer.

Yeah, I think it got down to 5 million, didn't it?

And it was.

Yeah, I got down to 5 million, but the prize money is 5 million and it's not even the sponsorship you get.

It didn't make any sense whatsoever.

I think 20 million.

20 million is a good figure to compare it with because if you, yeah, if you're marketable, you should make 20 million off the back for Grand Slam.

I'm sure many have made 20 million without winning the Grand Slam.

Yeah.

If you weren't a tennis player, what would you be?

I want to own a restaurant later.

But that.

It's something I want to have, but it's just like I don't even know if it's going to be happening.

But yeah, I really like the, like the restaurant scene and would be nice to have a, to have a, like a Italian restaurant.

Nice winner.

Win a few masters thousands and you'll have a restaurant no time.

That would, that would be some.

Something.

Yeah.

What record are you using?

I'm, I'm playing with the arrow.

The Bablot arrow.

Off the shelf or customize?

No, customized.

Customized, yeah.

Everyone is playing customized, I think.

Yeah, yeah.

Not as many as you think.

I don't, no, I don't.

You hear of a few, obviously.

Yeah, I'm sure the higher percentage is customized.

Yeah, well, you have to make them, if they are out of the, like out of the store, they are not equal.

So you have to make them equal as well.

And I think even if you're doing that, they're already customized.

Okay, well maybe that's level one customization.

Balance them all the same.

And I'm sure you've loads of juniors talking to you when you go to the National Academy there.

What's the one bit of advice you give them?

Yeah, have fun.

That's the whole thing to keep a healthy, healthy mind playing tennis.

Have fun doing your, doing the sport you love the most.

If you're not having fun and you're already like washed out that you're.

When you're 14, it's going to be really tough.

It's going to be.

Yeah, you're not going to have a very long career and I still need to have a career of 10 more years and I already had like 18 years of playing tennis.

So that's.

Yeah, it's all about having fun in the first couple of years till you're turning pro.

Then it's not all fun anymore.

Yeah, of course it's still fun because it drives you, like drives you to make, make yourself better.

But it's not for all fun.

Yeah, it's, you can go around it, but it's not, not every week is going to be fun.

Final question is.

Recently we saw Arthur Kazuh posted, I saw a social media clip talking about his taxes, how much tax he has to pay when he won a tournament, then back to France, other things.

But as you as a Dutchman, if you win a tournament in, let's say in Australia, you pick up a check for 100k.

By the time you get that back in your bank account in the Netherlands.

You split it in half.

Is it, is it the way I gather is in, in, in Australia, they tax it source there.

So they take like 25% there, whatever the tax rate is.

Then when you get back to Netherlands, let's say your tax rate's 50%, they take the other 25% and you're left with.

Yeah.

Is that the way it works?

Yeah, but like the 25% you pay already in Australia, those are like expenses.

So it's not that you, okay, let's, you got 75% left that you have to pay like 50% over that 75%.

So the, the, the, the, the taxes you pay in, in, in the, in the foreign countries, it's already expensive, so.

But still it's a lot of money.

You have to pay taxes for, in, in Holland and yeah, then Monte Carlo or Dubai is a little bit better for that, but Holland is making some different rules for that.

If you want to go immigrate to, to foreign countries for, for, for the tax thing, they are, they are strict on that.

Yeah, they're out to get you.

Because sometimes, yeah, they are.

You see like on the ATP tour page, oh, he's earned 3 million.

But by the time they get expenses and taxes, the guy's earned probably 500,000 max, you know.

Or.

Yeah, yeah, you can just, if you're looking at the ATP, because we have so much, so many expenses as well.

If you look at the ATP website, you can probably cut it in half for sure.

What we are actually, what we actually made and even I think even lower in my opinion.

But still you have the sponsorship deals.

You have to like the Davis cup is not included there and that's like a big income source as well and the club matches and whatever.

So what you see on the ATP website is not very accurate.

No, no, no, I know, I know.

Okay, well, look, thank you very much for jumping on apprec.

I will be watching you qualify in Australia, so that's going to be exciting.

And yeah, thanks.

It was a very nice podcast.

Thank you.

Sa.

It.