I have always loved advertising, which is really strange.

I remember as a kid liking infomercials.

So I don't know, I don't know if how well this translates Matt,

but do you know the Ginsu knives?

The Ginsu knife infomercial?

I just remember watching the Ginsu Knife, like there was a, it was a single take

cut, you know, where like they use a Ginsu knife and they cut through a, a soda

can, and then it slices through a tomato.

Mm-hmm.

, and then it cuts through a rope.

I just remember watching it like.

I gotta have that knife.

That's awesome.

Right?

. So then I remember thinking as a kid, like who makes, but who

makes the commercials, right?

Mm-hmm.

. And so, uh, anyway, it's always been kind of, uh, drawn to marketing and what makes

people buy one brand versus another brand.

Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson.

The E-Commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e-commerce.

Wow.

And to help us do just that, I am chatting with the talented and

all round amazing person, which is Brett Curry from OMG Commerce.

Uh, about what's working right now with Google and YouTube ads, but before Brett

and I jump into this conversation, let me suggest a few other podcast episodes that

I think you'll also enjoy listening to.

Check out why you should stop using Facebook ads and start using

Google advertising with John Horn.

Great episode.

That one.

Uh, and how to grow your e-commerce brand using YouTube videos.

With Auggie Johnston, you can find our archive of episodes, as

well as those two on our website for free, ecommercepodcast.net.

And also, whilst you're there on our website, if you've not already

done so, sign up for our newsletter and each week we will email to you

these links along with the notes and the links and the transcript

from today's conversation with Brett directly to your inbox, totally free.

It's totally amazing and you get it each and every week after that.

Now this episode is brought to you by, you've guessed it, e-commerce

cohort, uh, which helps you deliver e-commerce Wow to your customers.

That's right.

E-commerce cohort is a longstanding sponsor of this show and for good

reason, it helps you, uh, it helps you if you're in e-commerce, if you are an

e-commerce entrepreneur, if you're just starting out or if, like me, you're

a bit of a dinosaur and have been around e-commerce for a fair few years.

Uh, e-commerce cohort is something to check out.

Uh, it is a lightweight membership group with guided monthly sprints that cycle

through all the key areas of e-commerce.

The sole purpose of cohort is basically help you grow online and

help you grow your online business.

Uh, so do check it out.

You can find out more information at ecommercecohort.com.

Uh, that's ecommercecohort.com.

Me and the team.

In there every month.

Yes, we are.

And it's great.

We love it.

So check it out.

Also, just before I jump into the conversation, I want to

give a bit of a shout out to our collective good friend Mr.

Jared Mitchell, who connected myself and Brett today.

Uh, Jared has actually been on the show.

Uh, . We've since become good friends.

In fact, my daughter Zoe and I stayed with Jared and his beautiful

family for a few days on a trip to the States earlier this year.

It was great to see what they've got going up there.

So big up to Jared and Alana and everything that is happening

at skincarebyalana.com.

Check it out, especially if you're in the States and you need skincare.

Go ahead.

Anyway, let's talk about Brett.

Brett is a seasoned entrepreneur, a digital marketer and podcast host.

He leads an eight figure ad agency of Google, YouTube, and

Amazon marketing rock stars.

I love that phrase.

Now, the thing you don't know about Brett necessarily is the

man is the father of eight kids.

And a basketball coach, and we now understand why he

needs an eight figure agency.

So Brett, eight kids.

Uh, welcome to the podcast, bud it's great to have you here.

Great to be finally doing this.

Uh, thanks for joining me.

Yeah, Matt, I'm, I'm so excited.

And, and yeah, of course.

Shout out to Jared Mitchell cuz he made this connection like that.

That's how you and I met, we met like a year ago or more and we're like, whoa.

Really connection.

We enjoyed it, but uh, We just weren't able to make this happen

until now, but it's happening.

I'm excited to be here.

Thanks for the invite and, uh, Excited.

Ah, good, good.

We were saying before we hit the record button, we actually, I actually

host three different podcasts and you are on all three of them, right?

And we're recording all three.

Its a trifactor.

That's right.

That's exactly it.

And you are, we're recording all three this week.

So, uh, I, I did say at the start, I'm really sorry.

Because you're gonna get really bored with the sound of my voice.

Uh, but it's,

We may be tired of each other, but that's okay..

We'll, we'll push the limits and we'll just see where it goes.

See where it goes.

We might be calling Jared up at the end of the week going, why did you do that?

Yeah.

What were you thinking Jared?

I'll take back the Thank you.

You never know, right?

You never know.

So, uh, Brett, listen, tell me, uh, you've got a podcast, right?

I do, actually I have two podcasts.

Uh, one is a, a longstanding podcast called e-Commerce

Evolution started in 2017.

Oh, wow.

Where we talk about what's new, what's next in e-commerce, I

have phenomenal guests on there.

Uh, like Jared Mitchell.

Man, he's getting a lot of airtime.

We should, you should probably charge him at some point, but also, uh, Ezra

Firestone, Miki Agarwal from, from Tushy, Roland Frazier lot, lots of big names.

So talking about growth in e-commerce.

And then I have a, a series based, kinda a mini-series podcast called Spicy Curry.

And uh, it's called that cuz my last name is Curry.

And we get spicy on that podcast.

We're talking about Hot takes in e-commerce.

Uh, season one's about eight episodes, um, working on season two coming up.

So couple of ways.

If, if you get done with this podcast and you're like.

I'm sick of this guy.

I totally get it.

Or you may be like, I want to listen to this dude a little more.

Then you, you have two options to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

Go ahead and go ahead and subscribe to Brett's podcast, uh, which we'll, of

course, we will link in the show notes.

Uh, now tell me, uh, OMG Commerce, uh, what do you guys do?

Yeah.

So we're performance driven marketing agency and we serve

exclusively e-commerce brands.

So we help e-commerce brands grow, get more customers scale,

and, and we do that primarily through the Google ads ecosystem.

So Google search shopping, YouTube, uh, performance Max, which is new, I think

we're gonna touch on a little bit today.

Yeah.

Uh, and then Amazon.

And so on the Amazon side, we're full channel management.

So, from Optimization to inventory management, to Amazon ads.

Uh, and we do a lot with Amazon ads, so we're one of the fastest

growing Amazon DSP agency is about four or five years ago.

Uh, and then we run email and so, so yeah, we're a team of approaching 70 now.

Good.

And, uh, we've worked with some great brands like, uh, native Deodorant

and Boom by Cindy Joseph and Overtone and, and a number of others.

And so, yeah, that's what we do.

We're, we're all performance, uh, driven and, uh, help e-commerce brands upscale.

Fantastic.

And how did you get into it?

I mean, did you just wake up one day and think I'll do paid media,

or was there a bit more a story?

I wanna help e-commerce brands.

Yeah, I want, one day I wanna be on Matt Edmundson podcast show.

How can I, how can I get, what's the clearest path to get there?

Yeah, what's interesting, I have always loved advertising,

which is really strange.

I remember as a kid liking infomercials.

So I don't know, I don't know if how well this translates Matt,

but do you know the Ginsu knives?

The Ginsu knife infomercial?

Uh, I, I know what an infomercial is.

I'm not particularly, I'm not okay with that particular product.

I just remember watching the Ginsu Knife, like there was a, it was a single take

cut, you know, where like they use a Ginsu knife and they cut through a, a soda

can, and then it slices through a tomato.

Mm-hmm.

, and then it cuts through a rope.

I just remember watching it like.

I gotta have that knife.

That's awesome.

Right?

. So then I remember thinking as a kid, like who makes, but who

makes the commercials, right?

Mm-hmm.

. And so, uh, anyway, it's always been kind of, uh, drawn to marketing and what makes

people buy one brand versus another brand.

Uh, but worked in radio for a little while, so did radio, did tv, and then in

like 2004, learned SEO had an opportunity to learn SEO and kinda understand.

, why do people search the way they search and how do we get

sites to rank on search engines?

And that, that kind of started this path down.

Hey, I, I kinda like Google.

I like what Google's up to.

I like, I like how they connect brands to shoppers.

Mm-hmm.

. And so, so that's how it started.

So we started OMG in 2010 and, uh, grew from an SEO agency

to primarily paid traffic.

Uh, because I'd done some TV back in the day.

Then when, when YouTube kind of started to develop a, a, a performance element

with TrueView or TrueView ads, um, It was like my world's collided, right?

It was, they had some search components and understanding intent

of a user, but then also video.

The power of video.

Video can make you a celebrity.

Video, you know, is one of the best, uh, selling tools out there.

And so, mm-hmm , so it was really about 2016.

They kinda went all in on, on YouTube ads and started growing the

agency, uh, uh, through YouTube.

And so it's been interesting.

You, you know, when I first, I first started talking from stage

about YouTube in like 2016, 2017, and almost nobody was doing it.

Yeah.

And, and now it's more popular, but barely.

But I think, man, I think that YouTube's about to have its day.

I think people are, finally catching the vision.

and, uh, so anyway, so that, that, I, I basically, I love, I love good brands

and I love telling good brand stories and love doing that, through, digital ads..

It's interesting you say that.

Um, YouTube's gonna have its day and, and, and, uh, and how actually not a lot

of brands are using, a lot of e-commerce brands are, are using YouTube and I,

I've done a lot of coaching, right?

And not, I can't remember one person going, man, we've got

up our budget on YouTube ads.

Everybody talks Facebook and Google.

Right?

But of course, Facebook is.

It's got its issues now and I think, uh, more than ever it

was even in the mainstream news.

That's how we know it's going on over here in the uk.

Um, Facebook are struggling because people are going, well,

what do we do instead of Facebook?

And so I think we are now looking at these e-commerce entrepreneurs are

now looking back at some of the things that maybe they're not doing, where

they were heavily reliant on Facebook.

So why is it, do you think that we don't, as e-commerce

entrepreneurs use YouTube ads?

And why do you think maybe we should?

Yeah, so I, I'll answer the, the second part of that first.

So, so the reason I think we should consider YouTube, and the reason

I think YouTube is about to have its day is really a few things.

Uh, one, it it's got the users, right?

So, so I think it's like 2 billion active monthly users globally,

which I know it's a huge number.

Kinda hard to wrap your mind around, but, but essentially

everybody is on YouTube, right?

We, we have brands that are targeting.

50 plus year old women, we have brands targeting, uh, 20 year old,

uh, people that want to color their hair and, and everything in between.

Right.

And if, uh, Matt, you've got, you've got a teenager, right?

Zoe?

Zoe, teenager.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She is.

Is she, does she, is she actively using YouTube?

I'm just curious what her take is on on Facebook.

Oh, yeah.

She's never been on Facebook.

She doesn't have a Facebook account.

If she does, I don't know about it.

Um, but she's on YouTube all the time.

Mainly learning stuff like how to draw, how to grow.

Yeah, exactly.

So, and, and this, this is, we see this in data too, right?

But even just looking at, you know, your family.

My family, so, so all of my teenagers, they all use YouTube, right?

They wanna learn something.

My, my, my son just got a sales job and so he is learning how

to close and how to do things.

He's looking on YouTube, right?

Um, the only reason he has a Facebook account is when he sells

stuff on marketplace, right?

So, so long-live Facebook.

I think Facebook is gonna be fine for the, the immediate future.

We'll see long-term.

Yeah.

But I think the future's bright for YouTube.

The, users are there, the engagement is there, which is awesome.

Uh, the other thing is the data is there, right?

So when we wanna look at behavioral data, how do we target someone

based on shopping patterns, search behavior, things like that.

Google has that, right?

Google has more of that data than almost anybody else.

Amazon's maybe close, but, Google, uh, can use that data because

it's first party data, right?

When you're typing a search into Google.

Yeah.

That's you giving your data directly to Google.

So we can use that, you know, for targeting on ads and stuff.

So, got the users, got the data, and then it's just such a powerful vehicle, right?

Powerful for, targeting.

And, and it's a visual medium.

And you know, we just tell a story really, really well through YouTube

ads and we do it the the right way.

I, I think the reason most people have missed it is because they've,

tried to just take their Facebook video or their Instagram video

and they put it on YouTube.

Right.

Okay.

But it's, a different beast.

And I really think, you know, hats off to Facebook.

Facebook made it easy to start testing, right?

Mm-hmm.

, the ad platform is a little newer, so it's easier to spin up campaigns

and ad sets and you can test with a simple image and some copy, right?

Where on YouTube, like the video has to do all the work.

The video has to stop someone in their tracks.

Right?

And it's gotta, so it's gotta hook someone, it's gotta keep them,

uh, entertained and, and focused long enough to, to get the click.

And so the creative is a little bit harder.

So there's the, there's this real barrier to entry on YouTube, but then I think

even more than that, there's like this perceived barrier to entry, right?

Where it's, it's just, it feels harder to test on YouTube.

And so hopefully we can kind of demystify that a little lit.

But I think that's the main reason.

I think people just don't know how to approach YouTube.

Yeah.

And if they did approach it, they went about it the wrong way.

And so they've kinda stepped back.

I think, I think it's easier to get success on Facebook faster.

Yeah.

But YouTube just has a ton of scale opportunity and, and like I said,

I think it's gonna have its day.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm curious about this, Brett.

I'm not gonna lie.

I, the reason why, again, like most people, um, who have

e-commerce websites, right?

I, I've used Facebook ads over the years.

and I'm seeing the falling uh, response from Facebook ads and I'm thinking,

how else do I go and get new customers?

Are Google ads?

They're good.

They're strong, and we'll, we'll touch on Google ads later, but

Google Ads are great for people who are showing shopping intent, right?

They're online, they're looking for something.

Whereas Facebook was always, wow, I'm just gonna try and see if I

can gather Do you know what I mean?

I'm gonna cast my nets and see what fish I can gather kind of thing.

Um, and it strikes me that YouTube would be a good platform

to do that type of stuff with.

So the concept behind Facebook, you know, where you are interrupting

people and, and maybe trying to find an audience you've not yet seen, you.

That's what you could use YouTube.

Cause I'm not necessarily on YouTube.

Well, maybe I am on YouTube to buy cause I'm searching up the latest woodworking

tool, you know, and how to use it.

And maybe I could, uh, add that way.

So is it a, is actually therefore thinking this out loud.

YouTube a brilliant platform for both of those things.

Yeah, it really is.

And so, you know, we, we like to kind of talk about those, those two different

sides of marketing, uh, demand generation.

Mm-hmm.

where you're trying to stir up and create a little bit of demand, right?

That's what you do with your Facebook ads, where you're trying to just find

a person who's likely to buy what you sell and you're interrupting them and

saying, Hey, look how awesome this is.

You should check it out, right?

So you're trying to generate some demand.

On the Google side if you're looking at search ads, whether it's

search ads, you know, text ads or shopping, love Google shopping,

that's more demand capture, right?

Someone's on Google, they're searching for break pads, or

they're, they're searching for, you know, woodworking tools, whatever.

And so you're, you're capturing that demand.

Uh, YouTube is good at both.

Usually when someone encounters YouTube during a shopping process, it's early.

It's one of the first things they do.

Mm-hmm.

. So I think YouTube definitely could do what Facebook does in

terms of interrupting that, that new likely customer, but the kind

of that demand generation piece.

Yeah.

And so, you know, the way I always look at it is, is if you can run Facebook

video ads To a cold audience and you've got a lander that, that converts them

and either gets them on your email list so you can follow up with them,

or it's driving some direct sales.

If you're doing that on Facebook, then you should be able to do the same thing on,

on YouTube, maybe just with some tweaks, uh, especially to the video, maybe to the

Lander too, but most of the video mm-hmm.

Uh, but yes, it's great at demand Generation.

It's also good free marketing, right?

So you can also use at the bottom of the funnel.

Yeah.

Um, to remarket to users, which is very, very powerful.

And then there's kind of that in between too, where it's like, there

are people that go to YouTube and, and I don't really use YouTube this

way, but millions of people do, where they go on, they search for reviews.

Right.

Or unboxing, you know, I'm about to buy the new iPhone.

Yeah.

I wanna see the unboxing, or I need to buy a new mattress,

I'm gonna look for reviews.

So there are people that do product research on YouTube.

Mm-hmm.

. So that's kind of mid-funnel as I would say it.

Yeah.

Um, and so you can, you can target those people and show your ad there as well.

So it's pretty versatile.

And am I right then in saying because it is this versatile, but you, you don't

have this, um, , it's gonna have its day.

It's not really prime, like, you know, Facebook was maybe two years

ago, or, or Google Ads is right now.

Is it therefore quite a, um, a cost effective platform to, to launch onto?

Yeah.

So this is where, this is where it gets tricky, right?

I think, um, you do have to have the right ad.

And um, there's also some ways you structure campaigns that are, that

are getting easier, but in, in the early days, like, hey, to really be

effective on YouTube, you probably needed about 15 to 30,000 a month to test.

Mm-hmm.

, I believe that's largely changed because of some new bidding

structures that, that YouTube has.

Yeah.

So now I think you can test with kinda like a five to 10 k a month budget.

Um, because you, you gotta get enough frequency, you gotta get

enough impressions, enough views, To really see if it's gonna work or not.

So, so I think that has become easier than it was say, just, just a few years ago.

Uh, but the, the real key is getting the video right?

Right.

You get the structure of the video Correct.

And then you're gonna be in a lot better shape.

So there are people that are succeeding on YouTube now.

Uh, so when I say it has its day, I think they're just more people that are kind of

realizing, Hey, I can't just rely on Facebook and I think we can

tweak our videos o work for YouTube.

So I think it's just gonna continue to build.

Mm-hmm.

, we've got several, we have several advertisers we work with that are

spending three, four, 5 million a month on ads, and now YouTube is as big or

bigger than their their Facebook budget.

So I think that's happening right now.

Wow.

So, I mean, I've not got three to 4 million to spend a month on ads.

I wish I did.

You don't have to start, you don't have to start there.

But I'm just saying like, those are people that are spending a lot of money

and they're finding success on YouTube.

Yeah, no, I totally, so you, you, you talk about having the right type of ads.

Mm-hmm.

. So what, what do you mean when you say that?

Because I, I think a lot of people at the moment when they think video

are instantly thinking TikTok, because everyone's telling them

to advertise on TikTok, right.

I'm assuming it's different.

It is different.

And I will say something about TikTok.

Um, one, I don't really like TikTok as a user, but that's beside the point, right?

I, I, I know to, to be marketers, like, we gotta do what our customers like, not what

we like, but I, I don't like it as a user.

Mm-hmm.

. Uh, what's interesting though, you know, I get to see a lot of big

advertisers and what they're spending.

I don't see anybody spending more than 10% of their budget on TikTok.

I still think you should do it.

I think you should be there.

I think you should try organic TikTok as well.

But we're not seeing TikTok explode.

Right?

Usually like what really moves the needle at scale.

Facebook, YouTube, Google.

Yeah.

And we're also seeing Native Ads, which that could be another podcast

at some point, but, but native ads are, are pretty powerful.

Um, so, so ads that work though, kinda depends on, on a couple things.

One, if you're just using YouTube as an awareness vehicle, which you can do that.

The second most visited website on the planet.

Mm-hmm.

, second largest search engine.

Right?

It's got so many users, you can use it for an awareness plane.

We have, we have some bigger brands and P&G brands that, that do that.

Uh, Procter and Gamble brands that, that use YouTube for awareness.

If you're doing that, then often shorter videos, 30 seconds can work.

Right?

You're just kind of trying to get engagement and maybe build a list

of people that are engaged so you can follow up with search ads or, or

more, you know, conversion driven ads.

Mm-hmm.

, but if, if you wanna drive conversions, and essentially all of our clients

are performance-based, right?

They wanna, they wanna drive new customers.

Yeah, an acceptable CPA or CAC, you know, customer acquisition cost.

So for that, uh, we're seeing longer form videos work.

Right.

Okay.

And, and, and you gotta think about it this way.

If we're running Facebook ads, it could be a short, you know, 15 to 30 second ad.

Uh, a good friend of mine owns a coffee business and one of their top

ads for a long time on Facebook was like, of this, uh, kind of sexy, tasty

looking chocolate cake and pouring coffee next to the chocolate cake.

And it was just like, it was just like eye candy.

You know, you look at it and you're like, oh that looks

delicious.

But then the copy above the ad on Facebook is what really sold you

on the coffee and made you click.

Well, with YouTube all you have is the video, right?

That's all you see.

You gotta, there's a call to action buttons and stuff, but not much text.

Okay?

So the video has to do all the work, right?

It's gotta interrupt somebody.

It's gotta overcome objections.

It's gotta show social proof.

It's gotta show the product in action.

It's got to give a couple of offers, right?

it's gotta convince someone enough to say maybe, and hopefully they'll click on

the ad and, and go a little bit further.

And so we're typically seeing like minute and a half to three minute videos.

Oh, wow.

Uh, sometimes shorter, uh, worked for the big automotive brand

and, and their winning ad for conversions was a 45 second ad.

but typically we don't see, like 30second ads usually don't convert

nearly as well as a 45 or a 60 second ad.

Usually just, you know, the longer someone engages mm-hmm.

with a video, the more likely they are to say, eh, maybe I'm gonna check this out.

I'm gonna give this a shot.

Right.

I'm gonna check it out.

And so, so that's kinda what we're looking for and I'm happy to break

down kind of the structure of ads or whatever makes the most sense.

But I'll, I'll pause there to see if you have any, any questions or thoughts.

Yeah, I, I lots Brett.

Um, because it, everything is telling us at the moment, you've gotta

get shorter and shorter, right?

I, it needs to be seven seconds or whatever.

It's got to be on, uh, Instagram reels or, and all that sort of stuff.

And you're like, oh, geez, man.

But actually, uh, you're the second person this week, I've heard say,

actually long form, um, is making a bit of a comeback, although how you

define long form, 90 seconds to three minutes is not how I define long form.

But it's funny how 90 seconds is now long form ad copy.

Uh, right.

It's, it's really interesting, isn't it?

So, um, so where, why do you think then with YouTube you need this sort of 90

second to three minute video ish kind of range versus the, the ten second thing

that works fine over there on TikTok?

Yeah.

So I think, I think part of it is just the, the nature

of the, the platform, right?

With on TikTok we're, we're used to rapid fire.

We're kind of moving on to the next thing.

Mm-hmm.

Very quickly we're in, in a different head space.

and you, you kind of mentioned it when you were talking about, uh, YouTube for your

daughter, for yourself, you know, you're maybe going there to learn something.

Mm-hmm.

, you're, you're getting ready to engage a little bit.

So you're, you're kind of maybe settled in just a bit and you're gonna enjoy this,

this YouTube, uh, this YouTube experience.

Maybe it's only gonna be a few minutes cuz you're just learning one specific thing,

but you're, you're, you're focused, right?

Mm-hmm.

. And I think that that's another thing to keep in mind.

No one goes to YouTube to watch your ad, right?

Someone goes to YouTube to, learn or to Uh, be educated or to listen to

music or whatever the case may be.

So your ad is definitely interrupting them and it's not why they came.

So we also see a lot of people, and this kinda skips ahead a little bit, but to

the measurement piece of YouTube, this is where a lot of people get it wrong.

Um, you know, there's gonna be a lot of people that see that YouTube ad

they engage with it a little bit.

They like it.

They think, this could be interesting.

, but they stick on YouTube, right?

Because they're, there to watch a video, right?

They're on a mission.

I gotta figure out how to fix my washing machine.

I gotta figure out how to fix my, uh, lawnmower or whatever.

I gotta figure out this answer to a test or whatever not YouTube?

But they might later then search for your product.

Um, so I think the longer you get someone to engage with you, the

more likely they are to say, . Okay.

Okay.

I'll just, I'll go check this out.

Right.

This, this is compelling enough, interesting enough to go check it out.

And, and, and just to, to kinda expand on the what is long form and what is not.

We do have some brands, uh, boom by Cindy Joseph is one.

Mm-hmm, shout out to Ezra Firestone.

Uh, it's cosmetics for women over the age of 50, primarily.

Mm-hmm.

, they still have six and seven minute videos that work pretty.

Uh, we have a, an automotive brand that runs 15 minute videos.

Uh, but one thing YouTube said recently, like within the last year, is if you

upload a video over three minutes, they will kind of tax you, so to speak.

So the cost per view is gonna go up.

Right.

That still may work out okay.

Right.

If that video really converts people that it may be just fine.

Uh, but that's kind of where that under three minutes, you're kinda.

That's probably enough time to convince someone, and you're maybe in Google's

good graces a little bit better to lower your, your cost per view.

Wow.

So do they, uh, I do they, how does it work, I suppose,

with, with how they bill you?

So if I put on a, a 90 second video versus a three minute video, am I

paying more for the three minute video than I would be a 90 second video?

Yeah.

So the, the type of ad we run and there's, there's a few ways to go

about running ads on, on YouTube, but, but I prefer TrueView.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, which I'll explain that in a minute.

And then specifically true view for action, which means we're trying to, we're

giving Google the goal of conversion of some kind, email sign up, add to

cart, purchase, things like that.

Mm-hmm.

, so TrueView means that person has to watch either 30 seconds if the video's,

you know, over 30 seconds or the whole video if it's less than 30 seconds.

So if they, if they hit skip, you do not pay for that.

So it's a true view.

You are paying a cost per view.

Mm-hmm.

, so it's, it's more impression based, but they actually bill

you on a, on a, on a view.

Mm-hmm.

. So that can be anywhere from 3 cents to 30 cents, depending on kind of how

narrow and focused your audience is, and then kind of how you're building

or how you're bidding, rather.

Yeah.

But so you're paying, uh, for view, per view, um, but then you're, as you're

giving Google kind of that goal of a conversion, then Google's gonna be looking

for people that, that convert, right?

They're, they're gonna be looking for people that are likely to click

and then to take that desired action.

But, um, you know, we, we have seen for some videos that, that

really, uh, people engage with that the view rate drops, right?

So what Google looks for is sort of like with search ads, where

you got quality score, right?

As your clickthrough rate goes up on a search ad.

Right.

So the percentage of people that see it click on it as that goes up,

Google's like, Hey, this is a great ad.

I'm gonna show this more, and your CPCs go down on that.

Right?

Right.

Similar thing on YouTube, if Okay.

The more people that see that ad, watch the ad, Google's like victory.

People like this, we're gonna keep showing it more.

So your, your cost perview can actually go down in some cases because

Google makes more money cuz just more people are, are, are watching it.

So, so usually what happens then is if your video's a little bit longer, you'll

just see that cost per view go up a little bit, but sometimes that's okay.

Right.

May, maybe a video that's got an eight second cost per view, maybe

the conversion rate is higher on add to cart and purchase.

So it totally makes sense.

So maybe that outperforms a video that's got a 5 cent cost per view.

Right?

Yeah.

So, so the cost per view is just one metric to pay attention to.

Right.

Uh, but it is, it is at least somewhat based on how much

people are engaging with it.

That's fascinating.

And so is the, if you, if I look at the, the, everyone likes to use

return on investment, don't they?

ROI or ROAS or whatever acronyms we can now throw into the pot.

but if I say spend 10 grand on Google AdWords and spend 10 grand on YouTube,

assuming I've got a good ad, of course.

Uh, is the, is the sort of return on an, on that investment similar

or does YouTube outperform Google shopping or is it actually we

can't really tell at this point.

It depends on everything else?

Yeah, it's a great question.

So, and then this is where I think a lot of people get tripped up.

Uh, and I'll use a quick basketball analogy cuz as you

said, I'm a basketball coach.

That's the way I think.

So, uh, I know we got an international audience.

I'm gonna use Michael Jordan and, and the bulls from the nineties, my era.

Hopefully people recognize, right?

So on that, on that team.

You got Jordan, and Jordan was the, the, the soul of the team, the mm-hmm.

greatest player to ever play.

That type of thing.

His stats are gonna be much different than say, Dennis Rodman, who, if you don't know

Dennis Rodman, he was a defensive player and he got more rebounds than anybody.

He's just a rebounding machine, right?

Mm-hmm..

But every time you get a rebound, that's another possession for the offense.

Right.

So if you looked at Jordan and, and Rodman, right?

And you said, Hey, Jordan scored 40 points tonight, Rodman scored

2, we gotta bench Rodman, right?

Mm-hmm.

that, that's not looking at, that's not looking at, at,

at, at the stats correctly.

Right?

What you should be saying is, Hey, Jordan scored 40 and Rodman rebounded the ball

25 times and got the offense 25 more possessions that we would have had.

Right?

So, so when we look at, at Google and YouTube, Google is the closer, right?

Google is that, that's closer to the purchase.

If someone's searching and they click on a search ad or a shopping

ad or a remarketing ad, They're close to purchasing, right?

So that's more lower funnel.

YouTube is typically higher in the funnel.

So if all we're looking at is ROAS return on ad spend, Google's

gonna do way better than YouTube.

Right?

Okay.

Often, and this is where a lot of people get tripped up often.

YouTube is like a one ROAS or lower mm-hmm..

And so you're like, well, how can anyone ever succeed on YouTube?

Right?

At that kind of roas.

But here's what happens.

Uh, you gotta look at it as a team, right?

This is a, or we call it a portfolio, right?

So the way we look at it is, hey, you've got search and shopping and remarketing

in, in Google ads working and say you're hitting three to four ROAS.

Well, what you should be able to do is add in YouTube at the top

of the funnel and YouTube is gonna make everything bigger and better.

Right?

Right.

YouTube is going to grow your branded search.

Mm-hmm.

YouTube's gonna make shopping grow.

Right.

And, and we've seen this, so like once someone gets to say 30,000 a month in

YouTube spend or higher, it's got like a 30 to 40% lift on those other campaigns.

Wow.

So, so the way we have to look at it then is collectively, right, what does

YouTube do to our other campaigns?

And so what we always talk about is, Hey, let's, let's figure out what is

the right return on ad spend or what is the right customer acquisition cost

for your brand, and then we're gonna look at YouTube collectively, right?

Mm-hmm.

. because if all you do is look at YouTube in isolation it,

it's gonna be disappointing.

And, and that is one shortcoming of Google and YouTube, I think to Facebook.

Facebook, pre iOS 14 anyway, uh, was better at tracking conversions.

Now everybody kind of sucks at it.

Yeah.

Uh, but if you just look at a, YouTube campaign in isolation,

it does not tell the full, story.

YouTube drives sales on Amazon.

YouTube leads some more branded searches.

YouTube grows the whole portfolio.

So we still wanna hold it accountable.

We still wanna really, you know, focus in on our, our CAC and our CPA or our

ROAS numbers, but just know YouTube is kind of feeding the other campaigns that

that's a large part of what it does.

So do you think that's why it's not been as popular, maybe as a platform?

For sure.

Certainly with the, you know, the smaller to medium enterprises.

Yeah.

You know, haven't, haven't got the, the bigger budgets.

Is that, is that one of the key reasons that stopping us doing it?

I, I believe it is.

I believe it is.

Yeah.

And we, and, and listen, like if you got a really killer offer and you got

a really great landing page, like we've got a, a, a client in the, in the beard

space, beard care, and they've got this great sample offer, like try our best

fragrances and it's a like a $10 offer.

direct conversions are really low, like, uh, or direct cost

per conversions are really low.

Mm-hmm.

, it's outperforming Facebook.

So like with the, with the right setup, um, it, it can outperform

Facebook as well, but just in general, you know, YouTube is better

at like lifting all other campaigns.

Mm-hmm.

than it is just driving, um, you know, direct conversions.

Okay.

That's good to know.

So, uh, let's run through, uh, quickly, Brett, a stricture for a video.

What sort of things do we need to think about?

in our sort of long form.

Just still love that phrase, a long form ad.

How long form is 30 seconds or 90 seconds..

Yes, but 90 seconds is long form in, in today's day and age.

Um, so, uh, first thing is you gotta hook the right audience, right?

So that, that first five seconds, that's the time when someone cannot skip.

If we're running a, a true view ad, it's a skippable ad, but the first

five seconds, you're locked in.

So that's when you are interrupting the right audience.

So I wanna do something to grab their attention.

I wanna ask a thought-provoking question.

I wanna make a thought-provoking statement.

Mm-hmm.

, I wanna show something that's thought-provoking.

So I wanna, I wanna hook the audience, but I like for that hook, not just to

be random, not just like an explosion or a gorilla or something weird, like,

but tie it into the product, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so, uh, you know, that's where you can ask a question like, Hey, do you want

to have, there's, there's this, uh, uh, bronzer product we worked with that was

like, Hey, do you wanna have gorgeous, sexy legs in a matter of seconds?

Right?

And so then it talked about the bronzer and how it worked.

Uh, so you gotta hook the right.

, uh, then you, you really need some kind of product demo, right?

So, so show the product in action, show some before and after.

Show what the product does, and you want it to be really benefit oriented.

So what are the benefits of this product?

Uh, I really like social proof after that.

So I think the, you know, the winning ads that we see mm-hmm.

either they're showing reviews or they're talking about, you know,

millions sold, or ideally they've got some user generated content, some videos

from actual customers talking about.

, Hey, I was skeptical, or, Hey, I didn't believe this would work.

Or, Hey, I've tried other products and they didn't work, but this really

worked and here's how it worked.

So some kind of social proof is great, and then you need to start getting

into the call to action, right?

Mm-hmm.

. So this is where we're saying, uh, Hey, go, go here and watch this

demo, or go here and check out this video, or, you know, check our,

our, our exclusive offer, right?

So you're trying to get the click.

Mm-hmm.

. And really, you wanna have a couple of calls to action in that video, uh, to

try to get someone, uh, to, to click.

And so, uh, that, that's kind of the, the distilled version.

We could, we could double click on a couple of those or go a little bit deeper.

But if you can do those things, um, then you're, you're pretty

likely to, to get the click.

Um, you want the pace to be pretty fast too.

That, that's one of the mistakes that a lot of people make is, is they're

trying to do all those things and they realize they've got 90 seconds

or three minutes or whatever, so they just go kind of slow, but people's

attention span is still quick.

Right?

It's still low.

Yeah.

We got every, every six, seven seconds.

We gotta, we gotta, we gotta cut.

We got something different.

Um, you know, we're, we're mixing it up a little bit so the

pace has to feel pretty fast.

Yeah.

Or you'll lose people.

But that, that's kind of a quick basic overview.

So the, um, we, well, which makes sense, right?

The hook at the start.

That makes sense.

Uh, everyone's talking about hooks on there at the moment.

You know, you need a hook for reels.

You need a hook for Instagram, you need a hook for YouTube.

Everybody need, you need a hook for your sales page, you need a hook.

Uh, so I've got my hook.

And so the video is in effect encouraging the viewer to click the video.

That's in effect what you are selling, isn't it?

Like that's my call.

I want you to click this video.

Yep.

That then takes you,

the first thing is I want you to watch this video.

Right.

I'm promising you enough, like, You know, we did an ad like, hey, three reasons

why your YouTube ads aren't working.

Right.

That was the opening, you know?

Mm-hmm.

. Okay, well I've tried YouTube, it's not working.

I'm listening.

So the first thing is get them to watch the video, but then yeah, the

next thing is to, to drive that click.

Yeah.

Okay.

So then you've got the click, you are sending them through to a specific

landing page related to that ad.

Um, not necessarily in our topic of conversation, but what kind of things do I

need to think about on that landing page?

Yeah.

This is really great.

So, so the first thing is you want them to feel like they're in the right place.

Right?

So whatever, whatever you led with in the hook, whatever was

really the focus of that video.

Mm-hmm.

, you want some kind of tie in with the headline of that lander.

Right.

And, and we, we've worked with a couple of clients that have used like

the Harmon Brothers, uh, for video production or, or Raindrop Creative.

Right.

And they've got, they.

You know, paid actors to do a great job in the video.

Sometimes you want them visible on the lander, right?

So that as soon as you land there you're like, ah, I'm in the right place.

But you want the headline to be congruent to what they just watched in the video.

And then you really need to do more selling, right?

Just cuz you got the click does not mean they're ready to purchase.

Mm-hmm.

. So you still want to go through, you know, really specifying the benefits and laying

out some of the features and seeing some video and seeing, uh, some social proof.

Right.

And so, so typically, and here's what we really recommend, like if you, if

you've got, uh, a lander that works well for cold traffic on Facebook mm-hmm.

it's probably gonna work well for YouTube as well.

Um, okay.

We sometimes send people to a product detail page.

But, but only if that product detail page is really well built out, you know?

Yeah.

Where, where it, where it's got branding, it overcomes objections, you know,

it answers all the questions and so usually a little longer form on the

lander works a lot better as well.

Okay.

So and so I guess there, there's a strategy here which says, I'm

gonna build the landing page.

I'm gonna use Facebook ads to quickly and easily cheaply test this landing page.

Yes.

Uh, and then, and before I release the YouTube video and, and

100%, I, I think that's, that's one of the real advantages of Facebook is it's

easier to test at a lower budget, right?

But once you say, okay, here's the, here's the landing page that works.

Or let's say you find a 30 second video that works on Facebook.

That could end up being your hook for your YouTube ad, right?

That could be like the opening for your YouTube ad.

So I do agree, and we actually tell these people this all the time.

It's not a bad idea to kind of get things dialed in on Facebook

first and then go YouTube.

Okay.

Um, because I think Facebook is easier to test with.

Wow.

Fantastic.

Fantastic.

Listen, you've obviously done this a fair, fair, uh, amount

over the, the, the recent years.

Have you got any good stories, any examples that we could look

at or maybe big wins or just really interesting case studies.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I kind of mentioned, uh, this client a few times and I, and I mentioned

them a lot cuz uh, Ezra Firestone, the owner doesn't mind if we talk numbers

and he, he kinda likes to be a a,

oh he puts it all up anyway, doesn't he?

I mean

he does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's like an open book cause he's got a marketing training company as well.

And so boom by Cindy Joseph, it's a skincare for women

over the age of 50 primarily.

Uh, so they were, historically, they grew on Facebook, right?

Facebook was their number one engine for driving new customers.

So we worked with them, uh, to get the right type of ad for YouTube.

And, and over the course of about six months, you know, we took

YouTube from zero, uh, to now they're number two, uh, marketing channel.

So it, it's, it's behind Facebook.

Um, we also noticed we helped them launch on Amazon.

So they were not an Amazon brand.

We helped them launch there.

Uh, when we're advertising on YouTube, we see a lift on, uh, Amazon as well.

So that, that's one example.

Uh, another one is a hair care product.

I can't mention the brand name, but hair care product for women.

Yeah.

And, uh, we, again, we kind of took, uh, they, they got to where their,

their YouTube spend was about half what they spent on, on Facebook.

But the YouTube spend was still substantial.

It was still several hundred thousand a month.

On YouTube and, uh, noticed the same thing.

We managed their Amazon and when we would have to fluctuate the YouTube spend,

we could see it both in Amazon's sales but then also in Amazon's searches.

Like the brand searches on Amazon would fluctuate as we

had to fluctuate on, on YouTube.

So those are a couple of examples.

We also work with, uh, native deodorant.

They're a Proctor and Gamble brand, natural deodorant.

And so we've, we've used, uh, YouTube in a variety of ways for, for native.

Um, this is where I think, uh, YouTube can get really interesting

if you're selling Instore and online, you can do some pretty fun things.

So we, we created some campaigns and a couple of test markets to try to

increase sell through in store for native on, on YouTube, and, and really

create some great results there as well.

Um, you can do some fun things like brand lift studies, right?

Where if, if you've ever been on YouTube and you see those, those

questionnaires that pop up mm-hmm.

before, uh, before the video you're wanting to watch, uh,

those are done by Google.

And so you can also kind of see what is the brand lift that my YouTube ads created

through, through looking at, at surveys.

And so we've done that a number of times for supplement brands and, and uh, food

brands, and that's worked really well.

So, so yeah, I think it, it's very doable to, to grow YouTube, to be either

your number two or potentially number one when you combine it with YouTube

new customer acquisition plan, uh, uh, new customer acquisition channel.

Uh, and I think that's very doable for a lot of brands.

Wow.

Okay.

So, um, before I move on to a few questions about Google, cuz uh, we

should, given the title of the podcast, we should talk about Google at least

a little bit, um, if I, if someone's listening to this now, going, Brett,

I love the sound of, of YouTube, but realistically is my business where it

needs to be um, to, to start on YouTube?

Is YouTube ads something that everybody should look at, even if they're a startup?

Or is it something where you kind of go, actually guys, you need to probably be at

X before you really start to think about YouTube and you, you need to have at least

a minimum budget of y to make sense of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a great question.

I, I really do recommend you get kind of the foundational things in place.

So you want search, you want shopping, you want remarketing, you kind of want

the bottom of the funnel really well built out because of the, if the bottom

of the funnel is strong, then you can be more aggressive at the top of the funnel

and, and you'll close more business.

Right?

So, I recommend search, shopping, remarketing on the Google side of things.

Build that out first.

Yeah, you want some landers that are converting cold traffic,

and probably start with Facebook first on, uh, for testing that.

And so I don't know if there's like a minimum, uh, amount of sales that

you need before you do, uh, before you run YouTube, but you do want

those other things built out first and you want like a proven lander.

Uh, but we've tested, um, with some smaller skincare brands and a few others

where we've tested with like, A five to $10,000 a month budget on YouTube.

And we, and we saw some performance, right?

And, and we kind of isolated by saying, okay, this is a landing page

we're only sending YouTube traffic to, so we can track what people do

after they hit that landing page.

Uh, and it performed well.

So, so I think foundation first, five to 10 k, minimum budget, that's

kind of where you need to start.

And then usually you need to be able to handle like a a 50 to a hundred

dollars customer acquisition cost.

Okay.

Before YouTube really makes sense for you.

You can get it lower than that.

We do have brands that get it lower than that, but that's

like a good starting point.

Right?

Yeah.

And that's also direct conversions, right?

Yeah.

So, so knowing that, hey, we'll probably get some bleed over into Amazon,

get some bleed over into our branded campaigns, but, but that's probably the

direct conversion amount you'll see is kinda that 50 to a hundred dollars CPA.

Fantastic.

Thank you for that, Brett.

Very helpful.

You bet.

So let's talk about Google, uh, in, in the closing part of this show.

Um, everybody is talking at the moment about Google Performance Max.

Now, I appreciate the time that we are recording this and the time

that it will be released there.

There's a little bit of discrepancy between the two things and so

everything kind of changed.

So I'm just prefacing everything with the world could have

changed since we recorded this,

This could all be outdated.

That is, that is actually true for the YouTube side.

I don't think so.

But for performance, max man, who knows?

Uh, yeah.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

It's crazy world out there in the moment, which is fine.

So, um, if people haven't heard of Google Performance max, what should they know?

Yeah, so I, I actually, when I first heard about Performance Max, I hated the idea.

Uh, I thought this was Google trying to just take over the world and again,

you know, make, make a campaign a total black box and, and take away every

ounce of control that advertisers have.

But, As we've tested it, and Matt, we've spent now about $3 million in

the, on, just on performance Max Wow.

On the last month, month and a half, something like that.

Um, and so we're, we're seeing some really positive results, but, uh, what it is,

basically it's, it's all Google channels rolled into one singular campaign.

So search shopping display discovery, YouTube, uh, maps

if you're a local business.

Yeah.

And, uh, letting something else out.

But anyway, uh, it's all Google campaigns in one channel.

Mm-hmm.

. So basically, I think what Google's doing here is they wanna make

it easier to launch campaigns.

And we've seen actually some big Facebook advertisers lean into Performance Max.

Some Facebook agencies lean into Performance Max because with

Performance Max, it really becomes more about the creative, right?

Right.

Do I have the right images?

Do I have the right product listings in my feed Right for for Google

shopping, do I have the right videos?

And we just talked about getting a video that's optimized for YouTube.

So you put those in a campaign.

And basically what you're giving, uh, YouTube is, or what you're

giving Google is a couple things.

One asset or one audience signals.

Mm-hmm.

. So you're not telling Google Target this audience specifically.

Right.

They don't let you do that.

But you can say, Google, here's like my ideal audience and it's a signal.

So start here and then kind of go wild after that.

Um, so you're really just giving Google a starting point, but it's, it's

an ideal spot for machine learning.

Um, and as the campaign gets more conversions, it gets smarter

and better and, and you actually do have ways we can control it.

Um mm-hmm.

, which probably a little, little more complex and we can get in in

the next, the next few minutes, but, uh, basically performance

Max now replaces smart shopping.

So if you're running smart shopping before, most e-commerce brands.

Yeah, that's now Performance Max.

But, uh, we've seen some Performance Max campaigns really lean into YouTube.

So this may be a great place to test YouTube is just through Performance Max.

Um, we've seen some campaigns that, as best as we can tell, you know,

40, 50, 60% of the budget is going to YouTube inside a performance Max, but,

I think what Google realized is that a lot of people don't understand

how to use the display network.

Yeah, yeah.

How to run discovery ads or how to use YouTube ads.

So they're like, okay, just, just give us your assets.

Tell us, tell us your, your audience signals, and we'll go from there.

Um, you can really set campaigns up to succeed or set them up to fail.

Mm-hmm.

, but it, it.

So far they've been pretty fantastic, uh, and really good at driving new customers.

See, I think smart shopping leaned into remarketing a little bit more, right?

Performance Max is really good at driving new customers,

getting those new, because again, Google is smelling blood, aren't

they where Facebook's concerned?

Totally.

Totally.

The one they're saying.

Hey, Facebook beat us and made it easier, right?

Mm-hmm, so we're gonna try to combat that, but also they're saying, yeah,

Facebook's in a bad spot, right?

And then Google's in a little bit better spot because Google

owns all their data, right?

Yeah.

You've given that data first party to Google.

So it it, it's a fantastic campaign type.

Um, you know, I've got a couple free resources that we can talk about for

Performance Max, but I'm bullish on it.

Uh, as you said, a lot of things can change, but I think kind

of the core is gonna gonna be there, what we just talked about.

But, uh, if, if Performance Max isn't one of your top campaigns, then something

is one of your top Google campaigns, then something's probably wrong.

It should be one of your top campaigns.

Well, so we definitely need to check out on that.

Um, so if I'm, again, I'm just trying to think of the different type of

listeners that we, that we have.

We get people who are just starting out in e-commerce, Brett, and

they're like, is Performance Max something that they should look at?

Uh, or

Yeah.

I, I think so because, um, one Google, like, it's the future of Google.

Google loves it.

They're prioritizing it, right?

So because performance max also has a strong shopping component, right?

So mm-hmm.

Product listing ads, Google Shopping Ads, whatever you wanna call it, because that's

a, a central part of Performance Max.

You can, you can be really efficient with Performance Max, right?

So if you need to, to hit a.

A three x or four x or five x ROAS or whatever performance

Max can do that, right?

It's probably gonna lean in more to shopping and lean in

more to search and not so much YouTube, but, but it'll do that.

And uh, because it replaces smart shopping, I think you

kinda have to test it, right?

You can still run standard shopping too.

But, but yeah, I think small advertisers should definitely,

uh, still run performance Max.

Uh, just change the way you bid, right?

Bid a little more efficient.

To try to try to focus that, that campaign and, and keep it from kind of going wild.

But I, I think Performance Max is gonna be central for

essentially every e-comm brand.

Wow.

And what were the free resources that you mentioned?

Do you wanna give those a quick plug?

Yeah, so I'm trying to think of the best way to get there.

Um, we did, uh, host a, a performance Max webinar and I can shoot you the link cause

I'm, I'm really drawing a blank here.

Yeah, no problem.

This is the presentation that I did and then, and then, members

of my team, we did like a traffic panel, so it's all free.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, and then I did a, a, a.

Performance Max Blueprint with Ezra Firestone and Smart Market.

That's actually a paid resource, but you can check that out.

I think there's some freebies that go with it.

Mm-hmm.

. Uh, but I'll get you a link to that presentation that

that's a great place to start.

Fantastic.

Um, yeah.

And then, and then also have a, a free YouTube resource as well.

Cuz you know that getting the YouTube ad right is so critical.

But put together it's a PDF of the top performing YouTube ads

that we've seen and with links to those ads, you can watch that show.

Oh, that's really cool.

Yeah, to kind of break down, kind of categorize 'em, break 'em down,

show you why I think they work.

And so that's a good way to learn.

And that is free.

So you just go to omgcommerce.com, uh, click on resources, and then it's

the YouTube ad templates and examples, so that that's completely free.

So check that out.

But yeah, both those are, are great resources.

Fantastic.

And we'll of course have the links to that in the show notes.

Brett, listen, I'm aware of time, uh, Uh, I, I've started asking this

question to people at the end of the, the podcast going, listen, you, you are,

you are in this amazing place, right?

You've got a, a, an amazing family.

You've, you're excited about what's going on at work.

You know, you're a basketball coach.

I'm kind of curious if you, um, we, with, the way we put this to people

is we say, listen, you know, the e-commerce cohort sponsors the podcast.

So imagine you're in a hotel room full of cohorters, uh, you've just

delivered your best keynote speech ever.

They're all going crazy.

go Brett.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, pompoms everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, , uh, you, you stand up, you take a bow and you go, I hey, listen.

It would, I just would like to thank dot, dot, dot, uh, who, who, who are the people

that you would like to thank and why?

Oh man, that is such a great question.

So I, I think, uh, first of all, my parents, like my, my dad was

always a super hard worker in a totally different industry, right?

He worked with his hands mechanic, but like taught me the value of showing

up every day, given it all you got.

And so that, he's definitely one.

My uncle, uh, taught me sales and taught me like persuasion and taught

me how to connect with people.

Mm-hmm.

. And so learned a lot from him.

My first pastor, uh, at the church I attended really taught me leadership

and taught me like how to communicate effectively and authentically.

Mm-hmm.

like communicating, uh, to really cause change.

Right?

And so kind of all those weaved together.

. And then, like I said, it's always been fascinated by people.

And so that's what kind of led me, I think, to, to marketing.

But, but I, I would put those, those three at the top of my list.

I've got some great business mentors, uh, as well.

Mm-hmm.

, but those would be kind of the top of my list.

Fantastic.

Well, thank you very much to all those people.

Uh, listen, Brett, love to the conversation, uh, as I'm sure

many of the listeners have.

Great to finally get you on.

How do people reach you?

How do they connect with you if they want to?

Sure.

Best way to connect us through the website, omgcommerce.com.

You can click on the Let's Talk button and, and fill out a form there.

You can email me brett@omgcommerce.com.

I'm on LinkedIn.

I'm trying, I'm, I'm gonna say this publicly, put a pressure on myself.

I'm trying to get into Twitter a little bit more.

All my cool marketing friends.

Twitter, it's where it's at.

So Elon, you know, owns it now, whatever.

Uh, but I'm, I'm, I'm working on, um, getting more involved in Twitter.

We'll see, I don't know, you may check it out and you may be like, wow, your

last post was like five years ago.

Or you may check it out.

I may be going wild, but, but LinkedIn for sure.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, you can email me, check out the website though.

Those are the best ways.

Fantastic.

I'm the same way on Twitter.

I have a Twitter account and I, I can't remember how many people I'm connected to.

Maybe 20,000 people on Twitter follow me.

I don't know.

It's a lot.

Yeah.

And I just never use it.

And I kind of think I probably should, uh, at some point

In fact people say like there's some of the best connections they're making now.

There's like, there's just like this explosion of, of direct to

consumer and, and marketing people on Twitter is what I'm understanding.

And so, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a go.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna,

well, I'll tell you, I'll be in it with you.

Uh, we, we'll do Twitter.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Brilliant.

Fantastic.

Thanks Brett so much for coming on the show, man.

Absolute legend.

And I'll see you in Twitter.

Thanks Matt.

See you on Twitter.

Thanks brother.

Really appreciate it.

Absolutely.

So what a great conversation.

Huge thanks again to Brett for joining me.

Today, what a legend.

Uh, big shout out to today's show sponsor, uh, which is E-commerce cohort.

You can find out more information about them at ecommercecohort.com.

Do check out this new type of community you can join.

Be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever you get your podcast

from because we've got even more great conversations lined up and I

don't want you to miss any of them.

And just in case no one has told you yet today, dear listener, you are awesome.

Yes you are.

It's just a burden we've all got to bear.

I've gotta bear it.

Brett's got to bear ot.

You're no exception, uh, the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media.

You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.

The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole,

Estella Robin and Tim Johnson.

Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson and My Good Self.

And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show

notes, head over to the website, ecommercepodcast.net where coincidentally,

you can also sign up for our weekly newsletter and get all of this good stuff

directly to your inbox totally free.

Totally amazing.

So that's it from me.

Uh, that's it from Brett.

Uh, thank you so much for joining us.

Hope you enjoyed the conversation.

Make sure you connect with him, get your freebies, uh, and

then I'll see you next week.

Have a fantastic week.