Heather Shannon (00:02.478)

I am here to talk to you guys about emotional intimacy and how it's correlated with sexual intimacy and specifically how being vulnerable I feel like it's almost like a bad word to say Like okay are people gonna think that's not a sexy word and stop listening, but it is a sexy word. So keep listening And I will tell you the reason

I wanted to get into this topic is because I'm working on my vulnerability too. I have quarterly meetings with my friend Jacqueline. Shout out to Jacqueline. And we check in on all areas of our lives. So we check in on our business. She's a therapist too. We check in on social life and romantic life. We check in on health.

any other goal areas too. So it's really cool. And so I was just like, you know, I don't really feel like setting a goal that's like, I'm like lose five pounds or I'm gonna like try to make an extra whatever amount of money this quarter. And I was like, what would actually be different? What would actually be doing something different that would feel meaningful? And you know, I've lived where I live in Florida for...

three years now. And I was thinking that, you know, I hang out with people. I'm, you know, part of an improv community. I have a few friends outside of that. I get out and do some, you know, paddle boarding and kayaking with people. So, you know, there's people. But I was thinking, you know, I have some really close friends that don't live here. And I would love to sort of deepen some of the local relationships. And so when I was thinking about it, I realized

it probably takes vulnerability. And it was really interesting because, and by the way, if you hear background noises, I have a new little kitten. And if he climbs on me during this recording, I will show him to the camera. He's very cute. here he is on my foot already. Zip on cue. But this is his room. He's had to be quarantined in here in my office. I got him about, what was it, 13 days ago, almost two weeks. It'll be two weeks tomorrow night.

Heather Shannon (02:30.226)

And yeah, I actually found, this is a fun story, unrelated to sex, but I found him in the bike lane of a busy street on Monday night a couple weeks ago. Isn't that crazy? He's very crazy to me. His name is Felix. Let's see, he hasn't climbed far enough up on me that I'm gonna grab him yet. But he might be making noise and getting into mitham in the background.

is the short of it and he's a very lovable maniac. and he gets a little bit, he gets like the zoomies and a little extra squirrely late at night and I'm recording this at night. So anyways, back to the topic. But what I decided to set as my goal was being a little bit more vulnerable with dating situations and with friendships. And my goal was to have

five instances of being notably more, notably more either direct. Okay, the little kitten came close. Of being more direct or yeah, just more vulnerable. So it could be like saying you want to hang out with someone could be vulnerable, right? So sometimes with friends, think, I haven't really heard from them in a little bit or, you know, or.

Is that going to be weird if I want to hang out with them more than they want to hang out with me? Or if you go on a date with someone and you tell them you'd like to see them again before they suggest it? So all of these things. I also think, mean, a lot of the clients I work with are married. And sometimes I think we have this idea that the vulnerability kind of goes away. It's like, we're locked in at this point. We're committed. There's hopefully a sense of security.

doesn't, it doesn't go away. Like I hear this so much from my clients, which was why I thought it would be a great topic for the podcast, because people are feeling like rejected by their partner, you know, if they're not having the sex they want, or they're feeling like some people pleasing dynamics with their partner, and that can prevent vulnerability because you're just saying what the other person wants to hear, like you're not actually saying how you feel. If you're people pleasing.

Heather Shannon (04:49.708)

So, yeah, if you're watching the video, you maybe can see shadows of the maniac cat trying to climb my furniture. Hopefully next podcast, he'll be more under control, but he's very adorable. So, yeah, so I wanted to kind of share that, that it's something I'm working on. And I will also share, I think I did a couple examples so far. So one of my goals was also like, call some of my local friends on the phone.

or like text them more or initiate plans. So I did that. So I called one of my local friends. You we've talked on the phone before, but not recently. And then we wound up making plans, which was great. And it just kind of was like a natural thing and she wound up suggesting it. And so it's just a really good reminder that it's like, sometimes we psych ourselves out of being direct, of making a little extra effort with someone that we think is cool or fun or that we're in love with or married to.

and then I also met someone from a dating app recently. I know you guys knew from the beginning of the year that I was like single and not really feeling like dating. So I'm dating a little bit. and, we had a FaceTime call and it was nice and he checked in a few days later and you know, I was kind of like, okay, that's nice that he checked in, but like, we going to hang out? I think in the past, it's very easy. And also you guys, if you, if you are single.

There's like a bajillion dating gurus out there that are like, you know, the man should make all the effort. I think so much of that is so harmful. I just playfully said, you know, so when are you gonna ask me to hang out in person? And so he was like, hey, do wanna hang out in person? And it was just kind of a funny moment. But it's something that I think in the past, I would have just been like, well, people show up how they show up, right? And sometimes when we have that attitude, it can cause us to be a little bit less

vulnerable or just less of an active participant in our relationships. And again, I see that a lot. So let's talk a little bit about the general concept, though, of emotional intimacy leading to physical intimacy. So when I work with clients, I give people a pretty thorough intimacy assessment at the beginning. And I have people rate how important the emotional connection is to their sexual turn-up.

Heather Shannon (07:18.35)

And there's like five levels. So the top level is, it's absolutely essential. Like I'm just not gonna really be sexually turned on if the emotional connection is not there. The second one is like, it's not like technically essential, but like it's, it's, oh, it's better. It's a whole lot better. It's like a strong preference. And then there's kind of a neutral one. And then there's one that's like, you know, I don't really need it. Like I'm gonna be kind of turned on by a hot body basically. But you know, sure, if it's there, it's nice. It's just like not that important to me.

And then the last one is probably like, don't care at all. So what's really interesting is that the people who do actually work with me are almost always in those top two categories of either it's essential or it's strongly preferred. And I think that's so interesting, right? Because I mean, you guys are smart if you're listening to this show. But I think we often just separate sex and emotion.

And we just think like, there's a lot of people I work with that just have this sense of, I should be able to get turned on. And I'm like, why? You're feeling resentful towards your partner. You guys aren't having any like emotionally intimate conversations. There's no sort of like mental anticipation, turn on, relaxation, kind of creating the conditions for something sexy to happen. So it's like, why would you be turned on, honestly?

So I think just starting to understand that, you what are the ingredients that lead to turn on? What are the ingredients that lead to really connected sex? And I have to say, I don't think you need to be like super emotionally intimate to have great sex. But if two strangers, for example, were to like come together and have like a really hot one night stand, there's probably some other components. There's probably some components of

feeling secure enough in your body, feeling like there's some anticipation and excitement and novelty of being able to go for what you want and kind of have the freedom to just like do what you want and ask for what you want and to communicate, you know, and to establish some amount of safety or container, should that be important to you, which I honestly think it's important to most people, but.

Heather Shannon (09:45.006)

But yeah, so I think that we still need those ingredients. And especially when it's a long-term committed relationship, which that's the people that I work with, then we really kind of need it, right? There are some people out there, and I've worked with these people too. We're not usually working on their sex life. We're working on something else, who have a great sex life, even when they're fighting. And they kind of almost use sex to kind of get reconnected. And if that's you, then you probably don't need to listen to this podcast.

you know, maybe you need to work on the communication, you know, a different angle of it, but yeah. So for people who are in the long-term committed relationship, just know that the emotional intimacy has a profound impact on your sex life. And so when we look at the emotional intimacy, what creates emotional intimacy, right? And if you think about who do you feel most emotionally close to, sometimes it's your partner, sometimes it's not.

A lot of times people will say it's a sibling or a friend or somebody else in your life. Maybe it's even a parent where you feel like this person, and this is what people will usually say, this person really knows me. When I think about who really gets me and knows me and guess why they really know you. Because you've probably like told them all your secrets, right? And telling someone all your secrets is vulnerability.

Right. And I also will say, I do not think you need to tell your partner or spouse everything about every single freaking thought you have. mean, I do think there's something to be said for like, you know, okay, yeah, that might hurt their feelings. You know, you can take it a little bit easy or maybe like find a different way to frame that. Or maybe you just don't ever have to say that one. You know, I think there's reasons that things don't always need to be brought up.

But I think if we look at that pattern of like, who do we feel really safe with? It's the people we've done that with. And I also want to, I'll link to this in the show notes, but there's an example that some researchers came up with about sort of the process of creating emotional intimacy. Some of it, so it's 36 questions. So I'm sure some of you have heard of it. I've probably mentioned it in one of the prior episodes, but it's not something I talked about a lot on the podcast.

Heather Shannon (12:07.8)

But the question is there's three sets of 12. And they start with more surfacey things. And then each set gets deeper. And so it's building intimacy. And some of them might just be things like, say one thing you like about the other person. And so it complements. That's another way to be vulnerable. Because you're saying, I like this about you. It shows that you've got some stakes. You've got some skin in the game when you're like,

Okay, now I've put it out there. Now I've told this person I think they're kind of cool. Or I think they're kind of cute, or I think they're super smart. And that's a form of vulnerability. Sharing information about yourself, right? And this doesn't always have to feel vulnerable, but it is. It's a form of vulnerability. And so I think as you're listening to this, I would encourage you to just think about what is something that feels

a little bit vulnerable to you and what is something that feels very vulnerable to you? And kind of think about that whole spectrum. So if we kind of have the one to 10 of vulnerability, and can you move up one or two notches on that spectrum? Or can you pick one relationship that you want to deepen and focus on being a little bit more vulnerable there? So yeah, so again, compliments.

sharing your thoughts or feelings, asking for what you want in the relationship, sharing one of your secrets or vulnerabilities or insecurities. Those are all ways to kind of deepen it. And kind of what I want to say that I feel like I've sort of been beaten around the bush on this one actually, unintentionally, is each time we're vulnerable, it is a little bit of a risk.

That's kind of like the definition of vulnerability. But what the 36 questions does, and what I would suggest, is don't go from zero to 100 in a new relationship or in an existing one. If you're like, Heather, it's not new. We've been married for 20 years. We're just not talking about anything. OK, then same thing. If you feel like your vulnerability is at rock bottom right now, start smaller. Oh, here's the cute little kitten.

Heather Shannon (14:33.322)

here he is. This is Felix. If you're watching the video, he's my new love. He's very, very cute. You can follow him on Instagram, Instagram at Felix the cuteness. So he's being so sweet and licking me. Sometimes he just tries to eat me and bite off my toes, which you will see on Instagram if you follow him. But he's very handsome. So for those of you who don't love cats, I apologize.

Cat-centric episode, unintentionally. OK, so taking the little risk. So I want to say a couple of things about taking the little risk with vulnerability. One, start small. Two, you do need kind of a certain amount of security within yourself to be vulnerable. So with that, if you're just like, I'm going to give someone a compliment, you're probably secure enough to handle that. Like, what if they don't give you one back? What if they don't even say thank you? You're probably going to live, and you're probably going to move on.

Right. On the other hand, if you tell someone like your childhood trauma and they like react poorly and they're like unsupportive and invalidating and like gaslight you, that that's probably not one you do with strangers. Right. Or that's not probably one that you do with someone that you are just like feeling like roommates with or feeling like all you do is handle logistics. You probably don't go to like your deepest emotional point right away.

But maybe you do give them some compliments, or maybe you do open up a little bit and say, hey, I kind of miss you. I want us to reconnect. Maybe say something like that and see how that goes. then what happens is we're building. So you start maybe with the compliments, or hey, I want us to feel closer. And then the person receives it well, and they're like,

thank you. I think you look cute too. Or yeah, you're also my favorite person. And then maybe they say, yeah, I miss you too. I would also like us to reconnect. Maybe I'm not totally sure how. what is it that you need? And you might be kind of in a place of like, I don't know. We don't know. But you can be there together. And you can start to figure it out together. And then that's how intimacy is formed.

Heather Shannon (16:55.264)

And then when you're kind of more regularly having check-ins and date nights and laughing together and bonding that way, having fun together, those are all great ways. The cat is now starting to bite my flesh underneath the desk. OK. And the other thing I want to say is, what happens when you aren't vulnerable?

because this is what I see a lot. And if you guys take my free quiz, Why You're Stuck in a Sex Runt, you will find that, well, it depends what answer you get, but one of the answers is about being avoidant. And this is a common pattern I see with couples. And this is where you're starting to feel like roommates. It's kind of like we manage the household together, we manage finances, we are good co-parents, and that's kind of where it ends, right? Maybe we're sleeping in separate rooms.

Maybe we just don't really feel that comfortable around each other. And oftentimes that happens because someone's been shot down, somebody hasn't felt safe in the past being vulnerable. So I think we need to validate that. If for some reason it's like, I don't want to be vulnerable with this person. It's not going to go well. Trust that. I'm not saying to bulldoze that at all. I think we need to honor our protective parts and know that they're there for a reason.

But if you also suspect that maybe that protective part is telling you to clam up and not be vulnerable based on something that happened 10 years ago and actually has not been happening recently, then maybe start small and see where it goes. Maybe talk to your partner about, I'm realizing I probably want or need to open up a little more for us to feel closer. I actually want to know more what's going on with you. What can I do to help you feel comfortable?

Right? And that's a great way to start it. Because when you're saying to the other person, how can I help you feel more comfortable opening up? Chances are the conversation will also roll around to how can they make you feel comfortable opening up, right? It's a two-way street. So I hope that that is helpful about vulnerability. Here comes Felix. He's climbing back up my shirt.

Heather Shannon (19:14.062)

This is how goes. If anyone else has a kitten, please message me and tell me any tips. Also, thank you guys so much for listening to the show. I love podcasting. I also appreciate everyone being chill about me slowing the pace down a little bit with the summer. I'm excited to ramp back up in the fall. If you're loving the show, I have one free favor. It will take you 30 seconds. I would suggest that share it with someone. Share it with someone who's working on vulnerability. Share it with someone who's

working on communication and emotional intelligence, who you think might benefit from this. So thank you everybody for listening. We'll catch you in a couple of weeks on Ask a Sex Therapist. Bye everybody.