1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,540 You found the backup wrap up your go-to podcast for all things 2 00:00:03,540 --> 00:00:05,700 backup recovery and cyber recovery. 3 00:00:06,210 --> 00:00:10,440 In this episode where you're talking with Microsoft 365 expert Vanessa 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,160 Toves about backing up Microsoft 365. 5 00:00:14,610 --> 00:00:17,820 It was, uh, one of our most listed to episodes a few years back, 6 00:00:17,820 --> 00:00:19,800 and I wanted to play it again. 7 00:00:19,830 --> 00:00:22,590 I did trim it down a bit for length to make it a little easier to 8 00:00:22,590 --> 00:00:27,090 listen to and remember, please, Microsoft doesn't back up your data. 9 00:00:27,325 --> 00:00:28,645 They just host it. 10 00:00:28,885 --> 00:00:32,005 You own it, you're responsible for it, and if something happens to it, 11 00:00:32,245 --> 00:00:34,195 you will be the one to restore it. 12 00:00:34,765 --> 00:00:39,085 Vanessa breaks down exactly what Microsoft does and doesn't do and what you need 13 00:00:39,085 --> 00:00:40,825 to do to protect your data in the cloud. 14 00:00:41,425 --> 00:00:45,205 By the way, if you don't know who I am, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup, 15 00:00:45,235 --> 00:00:49,225 and I've been passionate about backup and recovery for over 30 years, ever since. 16 00:00:49,225 --> 00:00:51,505 I had to tell my boss that we had no backups. 17 00:00:51,870 --> 00:00:53,220 Of the database that we just lost. 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,640 I don't want that to happen to you, and that's why I do this. 19 00:00:56,970 --> 00:01:01,620 On this podcast, we turn unappreciated admins into Cyber Recovery Heroes. 20 00:01:01,890 --> 00:01:03,839 This is the backup wrap up. 21 00:01:20,886 --> 00:01:23,151 Hi, and welcome to Backup Central's podcast. 22 00:01:23,151 --> 00:01:28,461 I'm your host, w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup, and I have with me all 23 00:01:28,461 --> 00:01:31,491 the way from the Bay Area, none other. 24 00:01:31,881 --> 00:01:33,161 Prasanna, MALDI, how's it going? 25 00:01:33,161 --> 00:01:33,551 Prasanna? 26 00:01:33,801 --> 00:01:34,461 I'm good. 27 00:01:34,511 --> 00:01:38,671 And our uh, Microsoft 365 expert, Vanessa Tove. 28 00:01:38,881 --> 00:01:39,451 How's it going? 29 00:01:40,351 --> 00:01:40,801 Hello. 30 00:01:40,831 --> 00:01:41,731 Thank you guys. 31 00:01:41,761 --> 00:01:42,601 It's going well. 32 00:01:42,601 --> 00:01:46,741 I'm excited to be here and, uh, be on my second podcast with 33 00:01:46,741 --> 00:01:47,911 you, your second podcast. 34 00:01:47,961 --> 00:01:53,651 Anyway, uh, so we had a really good conversation, Vanessa, I find myself 35 00:01:53,651 --> 00:01:59,561 arguing when I'm talking to, you know, random people and sometimes not 36 00:01:59,561 --> 00:02:05,261 random people online is, well, gee, isn't this the whole point of SaaS? 37 00:02:05,261 --> 00:02:05,621 Right? 38 00:02:05,621 --> 00:02:11,591 I, I, I moved my application up into Salesforce, or I moved it into G Suite, 39 00:02:11,591 --> 00:02:18,881 or I moved it into Microsoft 365 and, you know, this person told me that I now 40 00:02:18,881 --> 00:02:20,591 don't need to worry about backing it up. 41 00:02:21,101 --> 00:02:21,911 What's your thoughts on that? 42 00:02:22,241 --> 00:02:23,771 I think that's false. 43 00:02:24,071 --> 00:02:25,931 I know this would be a great surprise, but I agree with you. 44 00:02:27,731 --> 00:02:27,911 Right? 45 00:02:27,971 --> 00:02:31,421 I, I really look back to, uh, let's just talk about the, the, 46 00:02:31,571 --> 00:02:36,491 the companies that migrated or are migrating to 365 from on-prem. 47 00:02:36,881 --> 00:02:41,921 Um, it was never really a question, uh, for an organization to say, 48 00:02:42,221 --> 00:02:44,321 we, this is our environment. 49 00:02:44,321 --> 00:02:45,311 We must back it up. 50 00:02:46,106 --> 00:02:49,106 We, you know, whether and they, they've made those investments 51 00:02:49,106 --> 00:02:52,886 because of whatever the situations were that drove them to do that. 52 00:02:53,426 --> 00:02:53,636 Right? 53 00:02:53,636 --> 00:02:56,186 And the type of companies, and it's no different. 54 00:02:56,426 --> 00:03:01,586 So I'd say the first and foremost, the reason to back up your SaaS base 55 00:03:01,916 --> 00:03:08,156 information is that you own it and you have a responsibility to, you know, uh, 56 00:03:08,156 --> 00:03:14,036 to the organization that you work for, to, uh, to right safeguard that information 57 00:03:14,366 --> 00:03:16,166 regardless on what platform it is. 58 00:03:16,646 --> 00:03:21,896 And, and then of course, for whatever the, uh, the other reasons that 59 00:03:21,956 --> 00:03:23,816 everyone else that we all talk about. 60 00:03:23,906 --> 00:03:28,856 But truly, the, the most important reason is that you own that information. 61 00:03:28,976 --> 00:03:32,126 I, I mean, there, there's a number of reasons why, but ultimately, 62 00:03:32,846 --> 00:03:35,726 uh, you have responsibility for that to your organization. 63 00:03:35,726 --> 00:03:35,936 Right. 64 00:03:35,936 --> 00:03:36,416 And, and 65 00:03:37,136 --> 00:03:41,636 wait, doesn't the SaaS application company or the SaaS company. 66 00:03:42,401 --> 00:03:43,571 Own your information. 67 00:03:43,571 --> 00:03:46,211 Aren't they responsible for protecting it, making sure it's 68 00:03:46,211 --> 00:03:47,531 available, all the rest of that? 69 00:03:48,251 --> 00:03:48,371 Yeah. 70 00:03:48,371 --> 00:03:52,331 I mean, they have a platform, uh, and their responsibility, you know, they, 71 00:03:52,331 --> 00:03:58,931 they basically sell a service for you to access their services and to save whatever 72 00:03:58,931 --> 00:04:03,701 information, you know, uh, however many rows of information, however many files, 73 00:04:04,031 --> 00:04:08,381 and use that service and to be able to a, you know, access your access that, 74 00:04:08,831 --> 00:04:14,201 but it's not, I, I don't, I don't believe that if you were to ask, um, uh, bank of 75 00:04:14,201 --> 00:04:19,121 America, if they think that Microsoft owns their information, the answer would be no. 76 00:04:19,691 --> 00:04:19,931 Hmm. 77 00:04:19,936 --> 00:04:23,831 And that would be no different for the small company like my sister's, 78 00:04:24,221 --> 00:04:26,051 uh, hard cider company in Auburn. 79 00:04:26,141 --> 00:04:30,191 Uh, common cider, you know, she's been on 365 and Microsoft 80 00:04:30,191 --> 00:04:31,931 does not own her information. 81 00:04:32,636 --> 00:04:38,846 They do not own, you know, she is paying for a service to utilize their technology. 82 00:04:39,356 --> 00:04:44,036 Um, and, and where that's concerned, you know, the first and foremost 83 00:04:44,036 --> 00:04:47,876 reason is that it is your information. 84 00:04:48,536 --> 00:04:50,666 Uh, it is the company's information. 85 00:04:50,876 --> 00:04:52,196 And I think a lot of people fail. 86 00:04:52,196 --> 00:04:57,356 Like they think that I'm going SaaS, but SaaS is just another application, another 87 00:04:57,356 --> 00:05:03,176 platform, a manner in which to right to interact with, uh, whether it's, you 88 00:05:03,176 --> 00:05:06,026 know, using a Dynamics or Salesforce. 89 00:05:06,536 --> 00:05:10,766 Um, it is just another application by all means or another platform, 90 00:05:11,486 --> 00:05:12,806 but what's in it is yours, 91 00:05:13,376 --> 00:05:13,856 right? 92 00:05:13,856 --> 00:05:19,556 And yeah, I think I agreed that that's, that's sort of why you like, from a Phil 93 00:05:19,556 --> 00:05:25,136 philosophical perspective, I completely agree that this is your information. 94 00:05:25,346 --> 00:05:28,436 And, and also there's, there's what we call the shared 95 00:05:28,436 --> 00:05:29,816 responsibility model, right? 96 00:05:29,816 --> 00:05:30,176 Doesn. 97 00:05:30,581 --> 00:05:32,261 Doesn't Microsoft lay this out? 98 00:05:32,261 --> 00:05:34,061 Or, or, or not? 99 00:05:34,661 --> 00:05:35,021 Yeah. 100 00:05:35,086 --> 00:05:39,311 I, I think Microsoft, or from my understanding too, is that Microsoft 101 00:05:39,311 --> 00:05:45,071 wants to ensure that you have access to their platform and they will do 102 00:05:45,071 --> 00:05:49,961 everything that they need to, to ensure that, um, you know, that you can access 103 00:05:49,961 --> 00:05:55,031 it, that you can get to your information, that your users can log in, and all 104 00:05:55,031 --> 00:06:00,341 of the infrastructure that goes into that, that is absolutely why, you know, 105 00:06:00,371 --> 00:06:05,531 they back up their systems, um, and why they back up all of their servers. 106 00:06:05,531 --> 00:06:05,801 Right? 107 00:06:05,801 --> 00:06:08,651 So that's, that's exactly why they're doing it. 108 00:06:08,741 --> 00:06:10,571 So, um, it's more from an 109 00:06:10,571 --> 00:06:12,731 availability perspective rather than Correct. 110 00:06:12,971 --> 00:06:17,561 And I think that some, well, in fact, I know that some people when they read 111 00:06:17,981 --> 00:06:23,441 the SLAs, uh, if they read the SLAs, right, uh, big assumption, you know. 112 00:06:23,591 --> 00:06:23,981 Yeah. 113 00:06:23,986 --> 00:06:26,621 If, if they read the SLAs, they see avail. 114 00:06:27,581 --> 00:06:32,261 Guarantees, and they immediately translate that into that, that 115 00:06:32,261 --> 00:06:34,301 that's the availability of my data. 116 00:06:34,751 --> 00:06:37,751 And it's not, it's the availability of the platform, 117 00:06:37,871 --> 00:06:40,181 which is a really big difference. 118 00:06:40,481 --> 00:06:40,871 It is. 119 00:06:40,871 --> 00:06:42,401 It's a, it's a completely different thing. 120 00:06:42,401 --> 00:06:47,741 I can log into Outlook, but as a good example, I logged into my Outlook 121 00:06:47,951 --> 00:06:52,631 and or I, I, my Outlook client and my online archive wasn't there. 122 00:06:52,781 --> 00:06:53,741 I didn't see it there. 123 00:06:54,701 --> 00:06:58,961 And, you know, so I had to just, I, knowing how it works, sometimes 124 00:06:58,961 --> 00:07:02,291 I closed my client and I opened it back up and there it was. 125 00:07:03,011 --> 00:07:04,901 So you you did the old turn it off and turn 126 00:07:04,901 --> 00:07:05,231 it on. 127 00:07:05,236 --> 00:07:05,681 Yes, turn it on. 128 00:07:05,681 --> 00:07:06,281 Turn it off. 129 00:07:06,761 --> 00:07:12,611 Um, and, but, but that's the kind of the concept is that I, right. 130 00:07:12,611 --> 00:07:18,461 I use that online archive and there's, excuse me, some rules that are set 131 00:07:18,461 --> 00:07:22,931 in place that allow me to move things to that online archive for a reason. 132 00:07:23,471 --> 00:07:25,781 So I rely on that online archive. 133 00:07:26,756 --> 00:07:29,066 Everything, you know, and what that service is there for. 134 00:07:29,306 --> 00:07:35,396 Uh, so the availability of that, I mean, underlying to this is Microsoft's, 135 00:07:35,906 --> 00:07:41,816 um, investment in ensuring that you and millions of other companies out 136 00:07:41,816 --> 00:07:44,936 there and all of their, you know, the millions, hundreds of millions 137 00:07:44,936 --> 00:07:49,496 of other, uh, employees can ac access this information at any time. 138 00:07:50,486 --> 00:07:50,906 Right. 139 00:07:51,056 --> 00:07:54,116 Um, now, so let's talk there. 140 00:07:54,416 --> 00:08:00,806 Would you agree though that there is this perception that when you 141 00:08:00,806 --> 00:08:07,286 go to a SaaS service like 365, like Salesforce, like G Suite, that 142 00:08:07,436 --> 00:08:09,806 backups are part of the service? 143 00:08:09,806 --> 00:08:12,626 Have you, have you run into that idea quite a bit? 144 00:08:13,466 --> 00:08:15,986 Um, you know, I, for sure. 145 00:08:15,986 --> 00:08:20,576 I would say people trust in the fact that it will be there. 146 00:08:20,846 --> 00:08:22,226 They trust in it more. 147 00:08:23,276 --> 00:08:24,181 Uh, you think about. 148 00:08:25,076 --> 00:08:30,116 You know, when it was on-prem, you had your hardware, you had so many different, 149 00:08:30,506 --> 00:08:33,296 you know, components that could go wrong, things that could go wrong. 150 00:08:33,926 --> 00:08:39,986 Um, so I think it provides people with a sense of, of, of, uh, maybe 151 00:08:39,986 --> 00:08:44,756 comfort or trust that yes, uh, I can go there and it's always there. 152 00:08:44,756 --> 00:08:46,196 Yes, it's always up, 153 00:08:46,796 --> 00:08:46,946 right? 154 00:08:46,946 --> 00:08:48,866 And yes, it's always available. 155 00:08:48,866 --> 00:08:52,226 I mean, un unless something really unfortunate happens. 156 00:08:52,286 --> 00:08:52,701 Um, you 157 00:08:52,701 --> 00:08:53,381 mean like last week? 158 00:08:54,521 --> 00:08:57,701 Yes, like last week and, you know, sorry, that was just too easy. 159 00:08:57,721 --> 00:09:00,086 Um, no, I know, but that's it. 160 00:09:00,086 --> 00:09:03,956 I mean, I, they, they, they were able to turn turnaround and 161 00:09:04,616 --> 00:09:07,856 probably roll back some, right. 162 00:09:07,856 --> 00:09:09,806 Some update that they pushed out to 163 00:09:10,016 --> 00:09:10,226 Right. 164 00:09:10,226 --> 00:09:11,726 All of their infrastructure. 165 00:09:12,026 --> 00:09:12,296 Mm-hmm. 166 00:09:12,656 --> 00:09:15,566 Um, and they had the mechanisms to do that. 167 00:09:15,566 --> 00:09:19,586 They made, they've made the investments to be able to recover in moments like that. 168 00:09:20,066 --> 00:09:20,246 Yeah. 169 00:09:20,336 --> 00:09:22,556 And, and it's, um, it's. 170 00:09:23,821 --> 00:09:26,996 I, I, I, I, I'm glad you mentioned that that's, that's part of the idea. 171 00:09:26,996 --> 00:09:32,396 Because I think the same true when I think of, you know, I, I, I often say the phrase 172 00:09:32,396 --> 00:09:38,036 young whippersnappers, when I think about young Whippersnappers, um, in it, like all 173 00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:40,646 their di, all their devices are all flash. 174 00:09:41,561 --> 00:09:41,951 Right. 175 00:09:42,281 --> 00:09:45,731 And so they, they, they've grown up in a world where their storage 176 00:09:45,731 --> 00:09:50,681 device is a thousand times more reliable than the ones I grew up on. 177 00:09:50,981 --> 00:09:55,511 We backed up everything like every second because that, that hard drive 178 00:09:55,511 --> 00:09:58,241 could just die any moment, right? 179 00:09:58,241 --> 00:09:58,251 Yes. 180 00:09:58,251 --> 00:10:00,851 And if, and if it was a, if it was a laptop hard drive, and it, you 181 00:10:00,851 --> 00:10:03,161 know, it was being banged around, you know, around all the time. 182 00:10:03,161 --> 00:10:04,571 So you really had to back that up. 183 00:10:04,571 --> 00:10:09,311 But now we have these, I mean, my phone, my iPhone has a bigger, hard 184 00:10:09,311 --> 00:10:15,041 drive than the entire data center when I, when I joined the IT industry. 185 00:10:15,131 --> 00:10:15,581 Okay. 186 00:10:15,821 --> 00:10:19,181 And it's flash and nothing has ever gone wrong with that device. 187 00:10:19,181 --> 00:10:21,911 I'm sure some people have lost it, but, but I think it's the same 188 00:10:21,911 --> 00:10:25,181 problem that there's this perception of like, well, it's Microsoft. 189 00:10:25,181 --> 00:10:28,091 They know what they're doing, they're gonna take care of my data. 190 00:10:28,091 --> 00:10:30,791 And even when they have an outage, as much as I like to make fun of 191 00:10:30,791 --> 00:10:34,721 it, the, the it, it came back up and all my stuff was still there. 192 00:10:35,216 --> 00:10:35,606 Right. 193 00:10:36,086 --> 00:10:40,736 Um, so I, I think that's a valid, um, what Prasanna, what do you think, 194 00:10:40,736 --> 00:10:44,306 what do, do you have any idea like why people feel this way about SaaS apps? 195 00:10:45,746 --> 00:10:50,006 I think it's just that SaaS apps have given that perception, right? 196 00:10:50,006 --> 00:10:54,026 That you, everything is handled for you, right? 197 00:10:54,026 --> 00:10:57,746 They're simplifying things and so people just kind of assume, Hey, if 198 00:10:57,746 --> 00:11:01,766 everything is done for me, I don't have to worry about anything, right? 199 00:11:01,976 --> 00:11:03,416 I also go ahead. 200 00:11:04,136 --> 00:11:07,076 And so I think, and then no one questions it, right? 201 00:11:07,076 --> 00:11:08,186 They're like, oh, it's not running. 202 00:11:08,186 --> 00:11:11,006 It's not something that I would've had to manage or worry about before. 203 00:11:11,366 --> 00:11:14,126 'cause it's kind of like either infrastructure or it's 204 00:11:14,366 --> 00:11:15,566 the underlying mechanisms. 205 00:11:15,566 --> 00:11:19,496 Everything I'm just interacting with is like a browser or a service. 206 00:11:19,976 --> 00:11:21,476 So why do I have to worry about backing it up? 207 00:11:21,476 --> 00:11:26,756 And they don't always tell you or give you those APIs, for instance, 208 00:11:26,756 --> 00:11:27,866 to be able to pull your data out. 209 00:11:27,866 --> 00:11:30,206 So you're like, oh, if they're not giving me the APIs, then maybe 210 00:11:30,206 --> 00:11:31,076 I don't need to worry about it. 211 00:11:32,081 --> 00:11:32,591 Yeah. 212 00:11:32,596 --> 00:11:34,991 And, and, and so, and here's where I'm, here's where I'm 213 00:11:34,991 --> 00:11:36,701 gonna sort of gripe the most. 214 00:11:37,211 --> 00:11:38,346 Uh, there's a couple rip away. 215 00:11:39,136 --> 00:11:42,911 There's a, there's a couple of bones I have to pick with Microsoft. 216 00:11:43,061 --> 00:11:45,881 One is the API one, and we'll come back to that. 217 00:11:45,881 --> 00:11:50,951 But the other is, I don't think that Microsoft specifically, and I, 218 00:11:50,951 --> 00:11:55,811 and I'm gonna say G Suite as well, that I don't think that they have. 219 00:11:56,501 --> 00:12:01,151 Plainly stated that they could settle this, they could easily 220 00:12:01,151 --> 00:12:06,281 settle this with a position, you know, on their website that says, we 221 00:12:06,281 --> 00:12:07,841 are not responsible for your data. 222 00:12:07,841 --> 00:12:12,071 We've, yes, we've built in some nice, like recovery features, but 223 00:12:12,311 --> 00:12:14,051 your data is your responsibility. 224 00:12:14,051 --> 00:12:16,961 You need to use some sort of backup system. 225 00:12:17,201 --> 00:12:22,991 They could settle this once and for all, but they don't, uh, my so, so in contrast, 226 00:12:22,991 --> 00:12:25,481 Salesforce for example, did do this. 227 00:12:25,481 --> 00:12:29,171 They, they actually had this, they had this, uh, I dunno if you, uh, 228 00:12:29,201 --> 00:12:31,991 Vanessa, are, are you aware with, uh, are you aware of this thing that was 229 00:12:31,991 --> 00:12:33,866 called the Salesforce Recovery Service? 230 00:12:34,961 --> 00:12:35,711 Oh, no, I'm not. 231 00:12:35,861 --> 00:12:36,161 Okay. 232 00:12:36,161 --> 00:12:37,091 It was horrible. 233 00:12:37,091 --> 00:12:37,821 I I'm not gonna spend that. 234 00:12:37,821 --> 00:12:38,681 That never worked your time on it. 235 00:12:38,686 --> 00:12:38,866 Yeah. 236 00:12:38,891 --> 00:12:39,191 Yeah. 237 00:12:39,341 --> 00:12:43,781 Well, so basically if, if you didn't back up Salesforce, you could go 238 00:12:43,781 --> 00:12:47,711 to the company and you could say, listen, we didn't back it up. 239 00:12:47,711 --> 00:12:50,651 We screwed up, here's $10,000. 240 00:12:51,071 --> 00:12:55,901 And then they would, uh, they would create a, a, a zip, a bunch of zip files of each 241 00:12:55,901 --> 00:12:58,001 of the objects in your Salesforce account. 242 00:12:58,001 --> 00:13:00,101 The objects, you know, in Salesforce is like a table. 243 00:13:00,431 --> 00:13:05,981 So each of you know users, uh, opportunities, uh, you know, contacts, 244 00:13:05,981 --> 00:13:07,121 leads, these are all objects. 245 00:13:07,391 --> 00:13:13,151 So they would create a zip file for you of the, of each object, which you would then 246 00:13:13,151 --> 00:13:19,931 download unzip, and then use data loader, which is their tool, uh, to upload these. 247 00:13:19,931 --> 00:13:23,231 And you have to upload them all in a certain order or it won't work. 248 00:13:23,561 --> 00:13:26,531 'cause there's like refer referential integrity issues. 249 00:13:27,041 --> 00:13:28,481 And for this, you paid the. 250 00:13:28,856 --> 00:13:32,756 You, it was $10,000 and it took six to eight weeks. 251 00:13:33,476 --> 00:13:37,766 And it, and it never, and it, there was no guarantees of recovery. 252 00:13:38,276 --> 00:13:40,736 So it was just the worst service ever. 253 00:13:40,796 --> 00:13:44,426 And they eventually, uh, the end of July this year, they 254 00:13:44,426 --> 00:13:45,596 eventually said, you know what? 255 00:13:46,076 --> 00:13:48,416 Basically this product stinks. 256 00:13:48,626 --> 00:13:50,006 We're not gonna do this. 257 00:13:50,306 --> 00:13:53,216 And we're, we're not gonna offer it anymore because people were 258 00:13:53,216 --> 00:13:56,576 using it as a crutch to say they didn't need to back up Salesforce. 259 00:13:56,726 --> 00:13:57,536 And they're like, you know what? 260 00:13:57,536 --> 00:13:59,966 If you ever actually a asked for this thing, we were kind of 261 00:13:59,966 --> 00:14:01,166 embarrassed to give it to you. 262 00:14:01,166 --> 00:14:02,066 It was so horrible. 263 00:14:02,186 --> 00:14:05,486 So we're gonna pull it off the market and you guys need to back up your, your stuff. 264 00:14:05,906 --> 00:14:09,566 So they've made a public statement that says that Salesforce customers 265 00:14:09,566 --> 00:14:10,826 need to back up their data. 266 00:14:11,006 --> 00:14:14,216 Microsoft has not done that thing. 267 00:14:14,216 --> 00:14:18,236 And I, and, and I'm, I have my theories as to why they have, uh, 268 00:14:18,241 --> 00:14:21,566 do, do you think they've helped this? 269 00:14:21,656 --> 00:14:23,606 Uh, issue at all. 270 00:14:23,726 --> 00:14:26,996 I don't think that they make it a point to, to bring it up. 271 00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:29,156 Uh, I think they talk about reliability. 272 00:14:29,666 --> 00:14:32,606 Uh, they talk about their platform, their investment, their growth. 273 00:14:32,996 --> 00:14:34,226 That's their focus, right? 274 00:14:34,226 --> 00:14:35,036 That's the focus. 275 00:14:35,036 --> 00:14:38,546 I can't speak for that, but I have my own theories, but I don't think 276 00:14:38,546 --> 00:14:41,156 I can share, share that right now. 277 00:14:41,246 --> 00:14:41,306 Yeah. 278 00:14:41,936 --> 00:14:43,241 Um, right. 279 00:14:43,381 --> 00:14:45,236 But, uh, I mean 280 00:14:45,626 --> 00:14:46,841 I, yeah, I, I, I think 281 00:14:47,366 --> 00:14:50,276 ultimately when you, yeah, when you're dealing, when you're dealing with 282 00:14:50,726 --> 00:14:56,066 any SaaS platform, uh, I'm not even Microsoft, you have to ask yourself, 283 00:14:56,756 --> 00:15:02,276 um, you know, if I'm an IT director of, uh, whatever, VP of it, I, what is the 284 00:15:02,276 --> 00:15:05,426 risk of the loss of this information? 285 00:15:05,996 --> 00:15:08,756 I mean, that is what, why we do this, right? 286 00:15:08,756 --> 00:15:10,676 This is why we back up. 287 00:15:10,676 --> 00:15:13,136 What is the risk if this was not here tomorrow? 288 00:15:13,556 --> 00:15:13,856 Right. 289 00:15:13,886 --> 00:15:14,156 Uh. 290 00:15:15,821 --> 00:15:18,011 Doesn't Microsoft offer backup? 291 00:15:18,341 --> 00:15:21,911 I think they're building a backup, um, uh, enterprise, 292 00:15:22,301 --> 00:15:22,961 sorry, sorry. 293 00:15:22,961 --> 00:15:24,791 With their like E three, E five. 294 00:15:24,791 --> 00:15:25,271 E nine. 295 00:15:25,271 --> 00:15:26,861 Don't they offer No, no, 296 00:15:26,861 --> 00:15:27,856 there's no, there's no backup 297 00:15:27,856 --> 00:15:28,176 feature. 298 00:15:28,236 --> 00:15:28,786 No, no, there's no backup. 299 00:15:29,471 --> 00:15:32,681 Oh, it's E three, E five, E one, E three, E five plus the 300 00:15:32,681 --> 00:15:34,031 other ones, the other letters. 301 00:15:34,031 --> 00:15:34,391 Yeah. 302 00:15:35,321 --> 00:15:37,751 Those come with like e-discovery and stuff like that. 303 00:15:37,781 --> 00:15:42,401 The two bones were, I don't think that they, they make this clear enough. 304 00:15:42,401 --> 00:15:44,801 They just, they basically just, it's like, it's like the elephant in the 305 00:15:44,801 --> 00:15:45,941 room that nobody wants to bring up. 306 00:15:46,181 --> 00:15:46,511 Right? 307 00:15:46,571 --> 00:15:50,531 They don't, they don't, they don't say one way or the, I do find it weird that 308 00:15:50,531 --> 00:15:55,571 the consumer version of the product does have a very clear statement in it 309 00:15:55,571 --> 00:15:58,121 that says you need to back up your data. 310 00:15:58,481 --> 00:16:03,341 The business version of the product, which is, I'm gonna say very similar 311 00:16:03,611 --> 00:16:08,531 from a data protection standpoint, um, does not have that verbiage in it. 312 00:16:08,561 --> 00:16:13,331 But anyway, there's that, and then there's the issue of they make some. 313 00:16:13,496 --> 00:16:17,516 Of the data, I'm gonna make up a word not backable. 314 00:16:17,756 --> 00:16:18,116 Right. 315 00:16:18,116 --> 00:16:22,316 So in the previous, in the previous, uh, podcast, we talked about things 316 00:16:22,316 --> 00:16:26,636 like Yammer and Planner, and these are products that they, my understanding is 317 00:16:26,636 --> 00:16:27,986 they're products they've acquired, right? 318 00:16:28,286 --> 00:16:29,036 Is that correct? 319 00:16:29,546 --> 00:16:29,996 Yes. 320 00:16:30,266 --> 00:16:30,566 Right. 321 00:16:30,566 --> 00:16:31,106 For sure. 322 00:16:31,106 --> 00:16:32,006 Uh, uh, Yammer. 323 00:16:32,006 --> 00:16:32,301 Yes, I know. 324 00:16:32,301 --> 00:16:32,581 Yeah. 325 00:16:32,581 --> 00:16:35,726 So they, they brought 'em in and they brought 'em to production 326 00:16:35,906 --> 00:16:41,936 without providing any APIs for anyone like dva, uh, to, to get 327 00:16:42,116 --> 00:16:43,616 the data out and back it up. 328 00:16:44,246 --> 00:16:44,606 Right. 329 00:16:44,996 --> 00:16:45,296 Um, 330 00:16:45,296 --> 00:16:49,406 and that's very likely because of its original architecture, right? 331 00:16:49,406 --> 00:16:50,186 Not so much. 332 00:16:50,636 --> 00:16:54,266 Um, you know, one of the, I'll, I'll just say in defensive of the 333 00:16:54,266 --> 00:17:00,086 acquisition concept that Microsoft does is that, uh, the life of that 334 00:17:00,086 --> 00:17:05,606 product will change once it's brought into the Microsoft, the true Microsoft 335 00:17:05,606 --> 00:17:07,766 ecosystem of, of development, I think. 336 00:17:08,186 --> 00:17:09,686 Uh, so yes, as, as. 337 00:17:10,361 --> 00:17:14,321 Applications are acquired, uh, and incorporated in as an app. 338 00:17:14,891 --> 00:17:19,811 Um, initially probably we don't have an API for certain things because 339 00:17:19,811 --> 00:17:21,851 there might not have been one at all. 340 00:17:21,851 --> 00:17:22,151 Right? 341 00:17:22,241 --> 00:17:22,661 Right. 342 00:17:22,871 --> 00:17:26,951 Yeah, I, I guess I've just, I live in this weird world, Vanessa, where a backup 343 00:17:26,951 --> 00:17:31,361 is like super important, and then I would never go to production with an app 344 00:17:31,361 --> 00:17:32,771 that doesn't have a way to back it up. 345 00:17:33,461 --> 00:17:38,891 But I know that I wear, I live in this, this very, uh, distorted view 346 00:17:38,891 --> 00:17:42,071 of the world, but I, I understand that's exactly the, the situation. 347 00:17:42,071 --> 00:17:46,091 And hopefully this will be resolved over time, and then companies like Druva will 348 00:17:46,091 --> 00:17:48,821 be able to, uh, to back up that data. 349 00:17:49,271 --> 00:17:49,811 Um, 350 00:17:50,531 --> 00:17:53,711 but I think at the last podcast we had talked also right about how 351 00:17:53,921 --> 00:17:55,391 all this data is important, right? 352 00:17:55,391 --> 00:17:59,141 If you don't have the Yammer or you don't have your planner data, right? 353 00:17:59,141 --> 00:18:03,881 It's not that you truly have a full backup of your environment. 354 00:18:04,706 --> 00:18:05,066 Right. 355 00:18:05,126 --> 00:18:05,456 Agreed. 356 00:18:05,456 --> 00:18:05,696 Right. 357 00:18:06,086 --> 00:18:06,296 Yeah. 358 00:18:06,296 --> 00:18:07,646 So it's important to get that data. 359 00:18:07,796 --> 00:18:10,256 It's just frustrating that we can't, that, you know, we and other 360 00:18:10,256 --> 00:18:11,846 vendors are not able to do so. 361 00:18:12,296 --> 00:18:16,916 Um, so, uh, which is, I, I was actually just, just prior to recording this 362 00:18:16,916 --> 00:18:22,196 co this podcast I was editing our other, um, we have a, an interesting 363 00:18:22,196 --> 00:18:26,846 podcast where you have a, a, a, what, what's you call ba a backup Anac. 364 00:18:26,906 --> 00:18:29,156 Have you heard that term before, Vanessa Anac? 365 00:18:29,371 --> 00:18:30,446 I, I have not. 366 00:18:30,806 --> 00:18:35,906 So it's a, it's a British slang term, which means a person who follows sort 367 00:18:35,906 --> 00:18:40,616 of a fringe or boring topic, right? 368 00:18:40,646 --> 00:18:43,166 So like, you could be like a train anac. 369 00:18:43,496 --> 00:18:47,816 You can't be a Microsoft 365 anac because there's millions of people using 370 00:18:47,816 --> 00:18:49,286 it and love it and blah, blah, blah. 371 00:18:49,556 --> 00:18:54,356 But you could be like a, you know, but, and so he's a backup anac and what he 372 00:18:54,356 --> 00:18:59,936 is, his complaint was that the, there's a lot of consumer, uh, SaaS services that 373 00:18:59,936 --> 00:19:02,366 there is not a way to back up that data. 374 00:19:03,086 --> 00:19:05,876 Not, not in any sort of normal way that I would recognize. 375 00:19:05,876 --> 00:19:07,916 And so we, that's, we talked about that and you guys should 376 00:19:07,916 --> 00:19:09,266 check that up, podcast as well. 377 00:19:09,656 --> 00:19:15,116 So let's talk about some of the things that, um, I know that there's some 378 00:19:15,116 --> 00:19:19,706 users that are, some, uh, sorry, I know that there's some listeners that 379 00:19:19,706 --> 00:19:23,816 are listening and saying, but, but I can restore, like in Microsoft, 380 00:19:23,816 --> 00:19:25,706 I can restore previous versions. 381 00:19:25,706 --> 00:19:28,016 I can restore an entire OneDrive account. 382 00:19:28,436 --> 00:19:31,766 Um, I can, you know, I can restore deleted files. 383 00:19:32,096 --> 00:19:37,616 Uh, you know, I could do all of these things in, uh, you know, Microsoft 365. 384 00:19:37,616 --> 00:19:38,996 So how is that not backup? 385 00:19:39,356 --> 00:19:44,126 Well, I think it, it comes down to also the situations that, you know, 386 00:19:44,126 --> 00:19:49,346 um, the end u we kind of have to split that as a, as an end user. 387 00:19:49,346 --> 00:19:50,456 I have a feature. 388 00:19:50,516 --> 00:19:54,056 A feature is to be able to go back to a prior version. 389 00:19:54,146 --> 00:19:57,236 And the prior version, literally just being. 390 00:19:57,716 --> 00:20:03,206 Still in the same spot still there, and I can absolutely create a new version. 391 00:20:03,476 --> 00:20:06,116 So I wouldn't say that they're restoring anything, but they're 392 00:20:06,116 --> 00:20:09,146 literally just copying a prior version and they're making a new one. 393 00:20:09,686 --> 00:20:15,446 Um, uh, so there's the, the, the end user expectation and features, right? 394 00:20:15,446 --> 00:20:18,746 That, that's one thing I can go into my recycle bin if I 395 00:20:18,746 --> 00:20:20,366 deleted something and Right. 396 00:20:20,366 --> 00:20:25,226 Uh, hopefully if I've, if I, you know, I go in there before it actually gets purged 397 00:20:25,526 --> 00:20:30,386 and goes to the second stage, then, uh, you know, I can, I can get to that file. 398 00:20:30,866 --> 00:20:37,046 But it's never really in the, the typical that backup solutions are needed. 399 00:20:37,376 --> 00:20:43,196 Uh, it's always in the, you know, the situations that are unexpected. 400 00:20:43,526 --> 00:20:44,216 Um. 401 00:20:44,831 --> 00:20:48,881 Or even whether it's, you know, maybe intentional or even malicious. 402 00:20:48,881 --> 00:20:53,981 But you know, I would say malicious being less than intentional. 403 00:20:54,101 --> 00:20:55,271 Um Right. 404 00:20:55,901 --> 00:20:56,951 If that makes sense. 405 00:20:57,191 --> 00:20:57,461 No. 406 00:20:57,461 --> 00:20:57,551 Does 407 00:20:57,551 --> 00:20:58,061 that make sense? 408 00:20:58,091 --> 00:20:58,121 Okay. 409 00:20:59,591 --> 00:20:59,831 Okay. 410 00:20:59,831 --> 00:21:01,961 May maybe I understand, but help me understand. 411 00:21:02,681 --> 00:21:03,011 Yeah. 412 00:21:04,361 --> 00:21:06,791 Uh, I, I also like to say users happen. 413 00:21:08,046 --> 00:21:08,336 Okay. 414 00:21:08,966 --> 00:21:13,811 They happen and they act in certain ways, uh, and applications. 415 00:21:13,811 --> 00:21:17,051 I, I think, like my son can get on, I actually had my 416 00:21:17,051 --> 00:21:18,611 son get on and I was curious. 417 00:21:18,971 --> 00:21:23,531 I asked him to create a page and I wanted to see how well he can, he's nine. 418 00:21:24,161 --> 00:21:27,041 How well he could actually create a page, like was it user 419 00:21:27,041 --> 00:21:28,661 friendly, you know, for a child. 420 00:21:29,231 --> 00:21:29,351 Mm-hmm. 421 00:21:29,711 --> 00:21:31,361 Um, but users happen. 422 00:21:31,451 --> 00:21:35,201 He was doing things that, uh, the application. 423 00:21:36,026 --> 00:21:39,461 No, maybe they didn't quite test for or Right, of course. 424 00:21:39,461 --> 00:21:39,621 Yeah. 425 00:21:39,721 --> 00:21:40,436 And right. 426 00:21:40,436 --> 00:21:45,686 That, that's a user, but that same thing happens too for the administrative side. 427 00:21:46,526 --> 00:21:52,796 Uh, you don't find an individual with just the, generally the 428 00:21:53,006 --> 00:21:55,736 job of 365 in most companies. 429 00:21:56,246 --> 00:22:00,056 You know, most companies, 365 is administered by the, you 430 00:22:00,056 --> 00:22:01,766 know, it maybe the help desk. 431 00:22:01,766 --> 00:22:05,636 And you have a, a team of people that someone needs to go do this. 432 00:22:05,636 --> 00:22:09,386 That person, this person creates an account, uh, the accounts, 433 00:22:09,391 --> 00:22:13,526 this, this person does, you know, uh, groups, whatever it is. 434 00:22:14,096 --> 00:22:17,366 Um, so it's not just necessarily one person. 435 00:22:17,366 --> 00:22:22,436 So when you also don't have a level of, of knowledge, of a deep knowledge of what 436 00:22:22,436 --> 00:22:26,516 it does, and you don't understand the relationships from one thing to the other 437 00:22:26,966 --> 00:22:29,516 users, that that concept of users happen. 438 00:22:29,876 --> 00:22:31,496 Also happens on the admin side. 439 00:22:31,496 --> 00:22:34,421 So, um, and those are the things like the users happen. 440 00:22:35,861 --> 00:22:39,461 Unintentional things that happen when I interact with an application 441 00:22:39,461 --> 00:22:41,261 I'm not aware of, I, I may not know. 442 00:22:42,041 --> 00:22:47,621 Uh, and then absolutely the, the malicious, uh, part where you might have 443 00:22:48,011 --> 00:22:52,181 third party, um, you know, people coming in from the outside, like ransomware, 444 00:22:52,691 --> 00:22:54,881 um, that you're trying to protect again. 445 00:22:54,911 --> 00:22:59,201 And then you also might have somewhat of a trusted person that might be, you 446 00:22:59,201 --> 00:23:04,001 know, a, a contractor or a vendor or whatever it is, or an, uh, honestly, 447 00:23:04,001 --> 00:23:09,221 an ex-employee that logged in and you hadn't shut down their account and Right. 448 00:23:09,221 --> 00:23:11,261 Those are malicious, uh, intent. 449 00:23:12,086 --> 00:23:16,586 So there's, there are very specific reasons beyond your, your responsibilities 450 00:23:16,586 --> 00:23:19,826 as an organization to back up, um, right. 451 00:23:19,826 --> 00:23:21,896 Users happened and malicious intent. 452 00:23:22,316 --> 00:23:22,736 Yeah. 453 00:23:22,826 --> 00:23:27,116 Users happen and admins happen, you know, just because somebody's in it doesn't mean 454 00:23:27,116 --> 00:23:27,956 they know what the heck they're doing. 455 00:23:29,066 --> 00:23:29,276 Right. 456 00:23:29,846 --> 00:23:30,086 Yeah. 457 00:23:30,086 --> 00:23:34,406 I mean, they, they manage, I mean, like, you know, they, they'll manage, um, 458 00:23:34,556 --> 00:23:36,356 10 different enterprise applications. 459 00:23:36,656 --> 00:23:40,826 And especially since, you know, everyone thinks it's all, it's very easy, oh, 460 00:23:40,826 --> 00:23:43,346 we've got, uh, 365, it's in the cloud. 461 00:23:43,346 --> 00:23:45,656 I don't need an exchange admin anymore. 462 00:23:46,406 --> 00:23:46,466 Yeah. 463 00:23:46,466 --> 00:23:46,576 How, how hard can it be? 464 00:23:47,186 --> 00:23:52,946 Right, so that, that organizations look to tighten their belts as they, 465 00:23:53,066 --> 00:23:55,346 um, take on these SaaS applications. 466 00:23:55,346 --> 00:24:01,286 So you have admins that are stretched relatively thin and may not know an 467 00:24:01,286 --> 00:24:03,296 application as deeply as they need to. 468 00:24:03,896 --> 00:24:04,046 And 469 00:24:04,046 --> 00:24:05,216 that's actually interesting. 470 00:24:05,216 --> 00:24:05,546 Be effective. 471 00:24:05,846 --> 00:24:06,896 That's actually interesting. 472 00:24:06,896 --> 00:24:08,786 Like even if I look at Salesforce, right? 473 00:24:09,116 --> 00:24:12,536 You have specialists like admins who are very specialized in 474 00:24:12,536 --> 00:24:14,186 understanding how Salesforce works. 475 00:24:14,186 --> 00:24:18,536 Because even though SaaS is supposed to be simple, it's powerful and 476 00:24:18,536 --> 00:24:21,116 complex and you need an admin, right? 477 00:24:21,116 --> 00:24:25,886 I think Microsoft 365 is the same way, even though it's they've took away 478 00:24:25,886 --> 00:24:29,606 managing infrastructure, there's still other aspects you have to administer and 479 00:24:29,606 --> 00:24:33,806 be a specialist in that requires you the time to be able to do that effectively. 480 00:24:34,811 --> 00:24:35,591 Absolutely. 481 00:24:35,651 --> 00:24:39,821 I mean, you can't just, uh, go roll out multi-factor authentication 482 00:24:39,881 --> 00:24:43,721 without understanding, you know, the self-service password reset. 483 00:24:43,781 --> 00:24:50,171 Uh, I, there's just a number of things and it's, it's when you have, and not 484 00:24:50,171 --> 00:24:56,081 everyone invests in their employees on the administrative side to become it, to 485 00:24:56,081 --> 00:24:58,451 go, to get education on the admin side. 486 00:24:58,931 --> 00:25:00,701 Um, it's supposed to be easy. 487 00:25:01,301 --> 00:25:01,571 Yeah. 488 00:25:01,571 --> 00:25:02,381 It's supposed to be easy. 489 00:25:02,471 --> 00:25:02,891 Right. 490 00:25:03,011 --> 00:25:08,021 Uh, you know, and I'm, I'm flashing back to, um, yeah, so it's, I think 491 00:25:08,021 --> 00:25:10,776 it's the problem that you just talked about and then honestly, you know. 492 00:25:11,956 --> 00:25:15,521 I, I, I love, I love all my admin friends, but like I said, not 493 00:25:15,521 --> 00:25:17,261 all admins are created equal. 494 00:25:17,681 --> 00:25:23,081 Uh, I, I do remember that was a, that was a person in, in early in my career, 495 00:25:23,531 --> 00:25:28,751 there was a person that, uh, me and another guy would, he would, he was a 496 00:25:28,751 --> 00:25:30,791 customer and we interacted with him a lot. 497 00:25:30,796 --> 00:25:34,511 And you would, you would explain something to him and it would seem like he got it. 498 00:25:34,871 --> 00:25:37,181 And then five minutes later, if you asked him a question about the 499 00:25:37,181 --> 00:25:38,501 thing, you just explained it to him. 500 00:25:38,951 --> 00:25:41,681 It, he, he, it was like he didn't, he didn't get it. 501 00:25:41,711 --> 00:25:43,841 The thing that you just explained that you thought he understood. 502 00:25:44,441 --> 00:25:47,741 And so we developed the term, you know, the term, uh, worm, and 503 00:25:47,741 --> 00:25:51,371 it's a, it's a, it's an acronym, uh, acronym write once read many. 504 00:25:51,371 --> 00:25:55,151 So it means like, like a DVD or there, there are, there are. 505 00:25:55,541 --> 00:25:58,781 Storage options like an S3 to do worm as well, where basically once it's 506 00:25:58,781 --> 00:26:02,651 written, you can't be changed and then, and then you just read it many times. 507 00:26:02,891 --> 00:26:04,511 So we developed a term for this guy. 508 00:26:04,511 --> 00:26:09,251 We, we called his memory, uh, worn memory, uh, write, often read never. 509 00:26:12,461 --> 00:26:15,581 So, yeah, so, so it's the people make mistakes and then 510 00:26:15,581 --> 00:26:17,231 there's bad people, right? 511 00:26:17,231 --> 00:26:17,681 And, and 512 00:26:17,686 --> 00:26:21,221 yes, I mean truly that like, people make mistakes and then there's bad people. 513 00:26:21,221 --> 00:26:21,911 I mean, yeah. 514 00:26:21,971 --> 00:26:24,371 Um, the, yeah. 515 00:26:24,941 --> 00:26:26,291 Uh, and bad people. 516 00:26:26,501 --> 00:26:30,071 I think the bad people part has, well, I don't know. 517 00:26:30,071 --> 00:26:31,031 What, what's your perception? 518 00:26:31,031 --> 00:26:34,571 Has the bad people part gotten worse recently? 519 00:26:34,691 --> 00:26:37,631 You know, when the, the last, the last couple weeks? 520 00:26:38,411 --> 00:26:43,241 Um, I know from what my understanding is, right, there was an authentication, 521 00:26:43,391 --> 00:26:47,171 uh, issue with, um, with 365. 522 00:26:47,921 --> 00:26:52,751 And I just, you just have to wonder how often these SaaS. 523 00:26:53,306 --> 00:27:00,206 Applications are being, um, you know, attacked, I guess I should say. 524 00:27:00,206 --> 00:27:01,016 That's the easiest thing. 525 00:27:01,016 --> 00:27:01,196 Yeah. 526 00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:01,916 Yeah. 527 00:27:01,946 --> 00:27:06,656 Um, and I'm sure that they're not gonna necessarily always come out and say that. 528 00:27:07,256 --> 00:27:15,176 Um, but I think that that with more people going to SaaS applications, that 529 00:27:15,236 --> 00:27:17,516 Absolutely, that becomes more of a target. 530 00:27:17,516 --> 00:27:23,786 Just like, um, you know, as every version of Windows has always 531 00:27:24,206 --> 00:27:27,746 had their issues, you know, and it was always a target, right? 532 00:27:27,746 --> 00:27:32,126 For viruses, uh, that came through your email because people work, right? 533 00:27:32,126 --> 00:27:33,386 They work and they live in Outlook. 534 00:27:33,986 --> 00:27:38,636 But I do think that, yes, I think that malicious intent is happening 535 00:27:38,636 --> 00:27:40,496 more and more by all means. 536 00:27:40,766 --> 00:27:45,446 And especially as more and more companies store more of their data, valuable 537 00:27:45,446 --> 00:27:47,906 data in the SaaS applications, right. 538 00:27:47,906 --> 00:27:50,636 It becomes sort of a great spot to target. 539 00:27:51,506 --> 00:27:51,806 Yeah. 540 00:27:52,391 --> 00:27:57,041 Is, it is both a point to share things and a point to steal things, 541 00:27:57,401 --> 00:28:01,031 you know, and, and with both of those, right, users happen, admins 542 00:28:01,031 --> 00:28:02,591 happen and malicious intent. 543 00:28:03,251 --> 00:28:09,731 Um, it doesn't, you know, Microsoft has as, as great, um, tools in terms of 544 00:28:09,731 --> 00:28:14,081 like, they have their e-discovery, they have retention, but that's still, that 545 00:28:14,081 --> 00:28:19,031 doesn't address the underlying issue of how do you protect against, right. 546 00:28:19,031 --> 00:28:20,111 Those two other things. 547 00:28:20,291 --> 00:28:20,741 Yeah, we, 548 00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:23,711 I want, uh, retention is completely different than, uh, backing up. 549 00:28:23,951 --> 00:28:24,311 Yes. 550 00:28:24,311 --> 00:28:24,581 Thank you. 551 00:28:24,581 --> 00:28:26,951 We're gonna, I, that's gonna be our next topic. 552 00:28:26,951 --> 00:28:30,251 I, I'll just fill in on this, like, admins happen, so, you know, 553 00:28:30,281 --> 00:28:34,001 especially since I, I spent a few minutes making fun of another person. 554 00:28:34,211 --> 00:28:35,591 I'm gonna throw myself out there. 555 00:28:35,831 --> 00:28:42,371 I try, like, I try really hard not to, uh, not to get subject to. 556 00:28:43,196 --> 00:28:44,606 My, you know, I, I get attacked. 557 00:28:44,606 --> 00:28:47,906 I get phished, I get, you know, ransomware attacked and Right. 558 00:28:47,906 --> 00:28:50,096 And so I'm, I'm constantly Don't click on that. 559 00:28:50,096 --> 00:28:50,846 Don't click on that. 560 00:28:51,236 --> 00:28:56,786 I actually got successfully phished the other day and ended up accidentally 561 00:28:56,816 --> 00:29:04,796 giving my credentials to a really important site to a black hat. 562 00:29:05,456 --> 00:29:10,346 Um, because I, because I was tired and not paying attention. 563 00:29:10,676 --> 00:29:14,276 And the, and the email came right at the right time and it looked like an 564 00:29:14,276 --> 00:29:20,576 official email from the place in question, and I immediately changed my password. 565 00:29:21,026 --> 00:29:25,136 Um, and so I, I, I think because I, I realized what it was one of those, one 566 00:29:25,136 --> 00:29:28,076 of these things where I'm trying to be, I'm trying not to say what it was, but 567 00:29:28,346 --> 00:29:32,636 it was one of these things where like, we do this service for you and you need 568 00:29:32,636 --> 00:29:36,866 to log in once a year to, um, renew. 569 00:29:36,866 --> 00:29:39,266 Like, to reconnect us. 570 00:29:39,701 --> 00:29:42,851 To your, this other thing that we look at for you. 571 00:29:43,241 --> 00:29:47,051 And it was coming right at the same time that my renewal was happening. 572 00:29:47,501 --> 00:29:50,861 So it was just very fortuitous and I to, I, I totally fell for it. 573 00:29:50,861 --> 00:29:52,301 And I went in and I clicked. 574 00:29:52,781 --> 00:29:57,581 And within, as soon as I logged in, I realized, and it didn't ask 575 00:29:57,581 --> 00:30:03,311 me to do the thing I was asked to come do, I realized crap, I, I just 576 00:30:03,311 --> 00:30:05,141 successful, I just got phished. 577 00:30:05,501 --> 00:30:07,151 And I immediately changed my password. 578 00:30:07,151 --> 00:30:08,621 And then I contacted the vendor. 579 00:30:08,741 --> 00:30:12,071 And here's the part that made me the most angry. 580 00:30:12,881 --> 00:30:18,581 They don't, they couldn't tell me if anyone had logged in with my credentials, 581 00:30:19,001 --> 00:30:20,051 which is bonkers. 582 00:30:20,201 --> 00:30:21,551 Which is bonkers. 583 00:30:21,551 --> 00:30:25,601 And I was like, you can't tell me if it, like, just, I'm like, literally 584 00:30:25,601 --> 00:30:30,221 the last minute has anyone other than you know, this IP address. 585 00:30:30,341 --> 00:30:33,101 Like, and they were like, no, we don't, we don't, we don't have that information. 586 00:30:33,761 --> 00:30:37,451 Uh, they, they, they didn't, and then I got even more angry when I realized that 587 00:30:37,451 --> 00:30:41,261 this particular system, which I'll just say it's, it's a kind of system where you 588 00:30:41,261 --> 00:30:44,801 store really sensitive information and they don't have two-factor authentication. 589 00:30:46,091 --> 00:30:46,751 So 590 00:30:48,041 --> 00:30:49,571 Curtis was a little annoyed that day. 591 00:30:49,571 --> 00:30:50,411 I was a little annoyed. 592 00:30:50,411 --> 00:30:53,741 And so I guess what I'm saying is, you know, I, I feel, I feel I'm a pretty 593 00:30:53,741 --> 00:30:58,151 smart person and I'm a person who focuses so much on data protection and data 594 00:30:58,151 --> 00:31:03,641 integrity, and I, you know, I, I I, I get annual training from, you know, at, at dva 595 00:31:03,641 --> 00:31:07,481 we have to do annual security training, and I, I know all that stuff, but 596 00:31:07,481 --> 00:31:10,391 sometimes you're tired and sometimes you mess up, and then you click on something 597 00:31:10,391 --> 00:31:14,081 and then next thing you know, you've given elevated privileges to a, to a bad 598 00:31:14,081 --> 00:31:17,321 actor, to your Office 365 environment. 599 00:31:17,501 --> 00:31:19,391 And then boom, bad things happen. 600 00:31:19,541 --> 00:31:21,281 That was my really long story to get there. 601 00:31:21,701 --> 00:31:25,631 But let's get, let's get back to retention policies. 602 00:31:26,456 --> 00:31:27,806 I'll give my summary. 603 00:31:28,526 --> 00:31:33,206 When, when there are those who say you don't need to back up, they 604 00:31:33,206 --> 00:31:37,346 point at retention policies as the reason why you don't need to. 605 00:31:37,616 --> 00:31:44,156 Because I can go in and I can say, um, you know, every email, every document, every 606 00:31:44,216 --> 00:31:48,866 version of every document, everything, and SharePoint, every chat, everything 607 00:31:50,096 --> 00:31:55,736 is gonna be kept for, you know, 90 days or 180 days, whatever number, right? 608 00:31:55,796 --> 00:32:01,106 And, and, and that, and that, that is what gets around like a black hat. 609 00:32:01,106 --> 00:32:05,096 If they were get in, like if a user did something and then they want to delete the 610 00:32:05,096 --> 00:32:07,916 history of the bad thing that they did, that, that, you know, that, that they, 611 00:32:07,921 --> 00:32:10,826 they, they can't delete the spreadsheet because we have a retention policy 612 00:32:10,826 --> 00:32:13,196 that says that they can't be deleted. 613 00:32:14,066 --> 00:32:18,596 Um, and my experience with that was that it's really good for 614 00:32:18,596 --> 00:32:20,546 retaining all that information. 615 00:32:21,476 --> 00:32:25,826 But it's an e-discovery tool, not a restore tool. 616 00:32:26,246 --> 00:32:29,576 And so getting all that back and saying, okay, take all of Curtis's 617 00:32:29,576 --> 00:32:33,416 emails and all his folders and all his OneDrive stuff, and all his folders 618 00:32:33,776 --> 00:32:35,546 go put it back where it came from. 619 00:32:35,876 --> 00:32:39,326 It just simply isn't designed to do that. 620 00:32:39,326 --> 00:32:41,336 So is that, that's been my perception. 621 00:32:41,336 --> 00:32:45,831 But again, we established on the last podcast that I am a 365 noob. 622 00:32:46,611 --> 00:32:47,231 So yeah. 623 00:32:47,786 --> 00:32:48,176 So 624 00:32:48,176 --> 00:32:50,006 Oh, oh, you didn't have to agree with that so strongly. 625 00:32:51,806 --> 00:32:51,926 She 626 00:32:51,926 --> 00:32:52,226 was like, 627 00:32:52,226 --> 00:32:53,076 yep, that is 628 00:32:53,076 --> 00:32:53,191 true. 629 00:32:53,191 --> 00:32:53,696 Oh, yeah, yeah. 630 00:32:53,696 --> 00:32:55,016 We totally, we totally agree. 631 00:32:55,016 --> 00:32:55,706 Curtis doesn't know. 632 00:32:55,706 --> 00:32:56,276 He's talking about, 633 00:32:56,306 --> 00:32:58,346 you know, the difference between a group and a team. 634 00:32:58,856 --> 00:33:01,556 I, you know what, it's a big, it's a big, it's a big step for me. 635 00:33:01,916 --> 00:33:02,516 Alright, alright. 636 00:33:02,516 --> 00:33:02,936 Important. 637 00:33:03,536 --> 00:33:03,566 Okay. 638 00:33:03,566 --> 00:33:03,656 Right. 639 00:33:03,656 --> 00:33:03,896 Yeah. 640 00:33:04,256 --> 00:33:08,276 Um, no, I, I think you made the point, but one of the things that 641 00:33:08,276 --> 00:33:13,526 you have to also realize is that, uh, let's talk first, we'll talk 642 00:33:13,556 --> 00:33:15,206 second about retention policies. 643 00:33:15,266 --> 00:33:15,536 Okay. 644 00:33:16,016 --> 00:33:19,706 But first in 365, more importantly. 645 00:33:21,086 --> 00:33:23,546 Is not everyone uses retention policies. 646 00:33:23,786 --> 00:33:24,326 Agreed. 647 00:33:24,326 --> 00:33:25,046 In fact, 648 00:33:25,496 --> 00:33:27,266 what do you think, what do you think the percentage is? 649 00:33:28,076 --> 00:33:32,516 Oh, I would probably say it's with, like, if we talk about companies that 650 00:33:32,516 --> 00:33:37,136 would use retention policies, the actual feature of retention, uh, within 651 00:33:37,136 --> 00:33:43,136 365, it's a very small percentage and your, it's more your large enterprise. 652 00:33:43,646 --> 00:33:44,106 Um mm-hmm. 653 00:33:44,381 --> 00:33:48,731 Maybe, hopefully companies that are publicly traded, um, you know, 654 00:33:48,806 --> 00:33:51,086 well, why wouldn't they use it if it's part of the platform? 655 00:33:51,326 --> 00:33:52,226 Is there a cost? 656 00:33:52,226 --> 00:33:52,916 Is there, 657 00:33:53,246 --> 00:33:57,686 oh, it's a, it's once again comes down to the implementation 658 00:33:57,686 --> 00:33:59,006 of it, the management of it. 659 00:33:59,456 --> 00:34:05,516 Um, you know, when you, when you build out or design retention, there's a process 660 00:34:05,516 --> 00:34:11,306 and a flow that goes to that, uh, retain x, you know, if something happens, right. 661 00:34:11,306 --> 00:34:12,536 I'll talk about a policy. 662 00:34:12,536 --> 00:34:17,216 If, um, I, I guess it goes beyond, just click the button. 663 00:34:17,816 --> 00:34:18,296 Um. 664 00:34:19,271 --> 00:34:20,801 If something happens. 665 00:34:21,641 --> 00:34:26,621 Uh, well, let's first talk about like the, the companies and why they don't. 666 00:34:26,891 --> 00:34:26,981 Mm-hmm. 667 00:34:27,461 --> 00:34:34,811 Um, it goes back to the, uh, one admin managing multiple platforms and the 668 00:34:34,811 --> 00:34:39,521 fact that there is retention possibly available for their license, right? 669 00:34:40,361 --> 00:34:46,211 They have a help desk ticketing system that they've got 30 tickets to deal with. 670 00:34:47,111 --> 00:34:52,871 Retention is a strategic, uh, initiative by an organization to do something. 671 00:34:53,471 --> 00:34:57,311 And there is you, you know, you require people to actually plan 672 00:34:57,311 --> 00:35:01,451 it, to implement it, to monitor it, to ensure that it, right, that 673 00:35:01,691 --> 00:35:03,371 there is a purpose for retention. 674 00:35:03,581 --> 00:35:06,881 Still functioning still, and it's still going versus, yeah. 675 00:35:06,881 --> 00:35:09,191 These buyers that you have, that you are immediate, 676 00:35:09,911 --> 00:35:13,511 you alluded to licensing, is it not in all of the versions. 677 00:35:14,576 --> 00:35:17,216 I don't think it's in, in all the licenses. 678 00:35:17,216 --> 00:35:18,626 And once again, right. 679 00:35:18,626 --> 00:35:19,466 That changes. 680 00:35:19,466 --> 00:35:24,116 I think they, um, you know, I think there was a change to, uh, the business. 681 00:35:24,746 --> 00:35:30,146 So I think it is in enterprise licensing, but don't, I don't take my word on that. 682 00:35:30,176 --> 00:35:31,616 I'm not the licensing expert 683 00:35:31,616 --> 00:35:31,766 right now. 684 00:35:31,766 --> 00:35:34,136 So it's safe to say it might not be in all versions. 685 00:35:34,676 --> 00:35:34,796 Yeah. 686 00:35:34,796 --> 00:35:36,296 But even if it were, uh, when 687 00:35:36,901 --> 00:35:38,301 you, you might not know that it's, there might not. 688 00:35:38,501 --> 00:35:38,661 Absolutely. 689 00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:42,266 You know, it's not on by default, someone has to turn it on, which means 690 00:35:42,266 --> 00:35:46,106 you need to know to turn it on, and then you need to turn it on correctly. 691 00:35:46,886 --> 00:35:47,186 Yeah. 692 00:35:47,186 --> 00:35:50,456 I, I would say people use SharePoint more than they use retention. 693 00:35:50,551 --> 00:35:50,771 Mm. 694 00:35:52,256 --> 00:35:53,036 Um, right. 695 00:35:53,151 --> 00:35:56,696 And, and SharePoint is what, third, right? 696 00:35:56,786 --> 00:36:01,556 The third used application, uh, in, so there's just so many 697 00:36:01,556 --> 00:36:04,376 things, but even beyond that. 698 00:36:05,486 --> 00:36:09,806 You have to think about what's the, the direction of the right, of the, the IT 699 00:36:09,926 --> 00:36:17,666 department that, that is managing this 365 is, um, right, is retention or compliance. 700 00:36:18,056 --> 00:36:21,896 Uh, if they're not under some SOX compliance, they're, you know, and 701 00:36:21,896 --> 00:36:25,436 they're not a publicly traded company maybe where they just, there's 702 00:36:25,436 --> 00:36:30,716 things that they have to do going in and creating an eDiscovery case. 703 00:36:31,166 --> 00:36:36,206 Uh, and, and you know, and, and everything that goes into that. 704 00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:38,276 There is a, there's a purpose to that. 705 00:36:38,666 --> 00:36:43,436 Uh, so your IT person is not gen generally going to be the one that says, let me go 706 00:36:43,436 --> 00:36:46,316 create more work for myself, to be honest. 707 00:36:46,946 --> 00:36:47,156 Right. 708 00:36:47,156 --> 00:36:48,056 I that's, that's 709 00:36:48,056 --> 00:36:48,536 true. 710 00:36:49,091 --> 00:36:49,751 It's very true. 711 00:36:49,751 --> 00:36:53,381 It's like, uh, if I turn that on, that is more work. 712 00:36:53,561 --> 00:36:57,431 And that's why I tell people, like one of the first things I would do when I would 713 00:36:57,431 --> 00:37:01,331 go interact with a company, any company, whether they, they called me in to do a 714 00:37:01,391 --> 00:37:07,421 build a Power BI dashboard or, uh, build an intranet, um, the very first thing I 715 00:37:07,421 --> 00:37:11,291 would do is a 365 audit, a backend audit. 716 00:37:11,951 --> 00:37:17,081 It's like 30 points of do you know this is where you are. 717 00:37:17,621 --> 00:37:22,511 Because before I build something like an intranet, I want you, you know, you 718 00:37:22,511 --> 00:37:26,381 have to understand where you are with all these other things that could potentially 719 00:37:26,381 --> 00:37:31,301 impact it as an example, you know, so I know we're not, we're kind of straying 720 00:37:31,301 --> 00:37:34,946 away from retention, but that's, um, the point being No, you're doing, you're fine. 721 00:37:35,801 --> 00:37:36,011 Yeah. 722 00:37:36,011 --> 00:37:42,191 There's so many components to 365 that if I had to give you a percentage of how 723 00:37:42,191 --> 00:37:44,261 many companies actively use retention. 724 00:37:45,641 --> 00:37:48,461 I would be surprised if it were over 5%. 725 00:37:48,821 --> 00:37:50,411 I was gonna go with 5% as well. 726 00:37:50,951 --> 00:37:51,221 Yeah, small. 727 00:37:51,491 --> 00:37:54,731 But, but, but again, I'm totally, I'm totally making that number up. 728 00:37:54,851 --> 00:37:54,971 Yeah. 729 00:37:54,971 --> 00:37:57,521 You've actually, you've actually been out there in the wild, so 730 00:37:57,521 --> 00:37:59,801 that's a really good point of that. 731 00:37:59,801 --> 00:38:04,421 Basically it's just not widely used, number one. 732 00:38:04,841 --> 00:38:08,831 Number two, and I think this, this is, I think, equally important 733 00:38:08,831 --> 00:38:12,671 for people who have turned it on and they think, now I have backup. 734 00:38:13,181 --> 00:38:17,201 If you think that you've clearly never used it to restore anything. 735 00:38:18,071 --> 00:38:18,461 Right. 736 00:38:18,791 --> 00:38:23,716 Unless it was like a single email or a single document, because 737 00:38:23,721 --> 00:38:23,981 Yeah. 738 00:38:23,981 --> 00:38:29,741 And, and, and in the, and in the world of 365, let's say, let's do retention because 739 00:38:29,741 --> 00:38:34,421 I want to use it as a, i, I think I wanna use it as a backup retention and, and 740 00:38:34,421 --> 00:38:40,916 creating, you know, retention for content is, um, once again, there's a. Processes 741 00:38:40,916 --> 00:38:42,836 that are generally part of retention. 742 00:38:43,376 --> 00:38:47,546 A company doesn't wanna keep anything over seven years. 743 00:38:48,236 --> 00:38:55,076 So they create a retention policy in X for content, maybe on SharePoint, wherever. 744 00:38:55,766 --> 00:38:59,996 Um, but then what about, you know, there's retention for my email. 745 00:38:59,996 --> 00:39:00,806 Okay, let me see. 746 00:39:01,256 --> 00:39:03,806 I've gotta go create a retention on every single person. 747 00:39:04,616 --> 00:39:05,556 I mean, every single person, person 748 00:39:05,786 --> 00:39:07,766 creating and different have, and different people might have different 749 00:39:07,766 --> 00:39:10,826 retentions too, like your ccio and Absolutely everyone else might 750 00:39:10,826 --> 00:39:12,026 have different retention policies 751 00:39:12,026 --> 00:39:17,426 than, so it is, it's, people go about, uh, creating retention generally. 752 00:39:17,906 --> 00:39:21,476 Generally from what I've seen, retention policies drive are 753 00:39:21,476 --> 00:39:23,336 driven down at the content level. 754 00:39:23,426 --> 00:39:30,206 And yes, on emails usually for, um, your manager, you know, your VP level 755 00:39:30,206 --> 00:39:34,856 and up, um, individuals you might wanna retain and hold their emails, but. 756 00:39:35,726 --> 00:39:42,896 It's rare that you find, uh, companies using, um, really effectively using 757 00:39:42,896 --> 00:39:45,686 the retention policies of 365. 758 00:39:45,926 --> 00:39:47,606 I thought I had seen that. 759 00:39:47,606 --> 00:39:50,966 I could if I want to, although I might not want to. 760 00:39:50,966 --> 00:39:56,696 If I wanted to, I could do a single retention policy at the very tippy 761 00:39:56,696 --> 00:40:03,146 top of Microsoft 365 and just say, I want everything Exchange online, 762 00:40:03,146 --> 00:40:08,606 SharePoint, OneDrive, uh, all of the things, I want, everything in here 763 00:40:08,606 --> 00:40:11,936 retained for at least 90 days go. 764 00:40:12,536 --> 00:40:13,861 Is that not the case? 765 00:40:14,411 --> 00:40:14,701 Okay. 766 00:40:14,706 --> 00:40:17,156 So first of all, I've never seen that. 767 00:40:17,726 --> 00:40:23,906 Um, and usually retention is, from my understanding and what I've done for right 768 00:40:23,911 --> 00:40:24,061 mm-hmm. 769 00:40:24,481 --> 00:40:26,726 Is at an individual level. 770 00:40:27,446 --> 00:40:31,436 Or at potentially a site level, like a URL specific, like this 771 00:40:31,436 --> 00:40:33,686 site, uh, everything underneath it. 772 00:40:33,686 --> 00:40:34,436 This person 773 00:40:34,616 --> 00:40:38,186 probably because you're viewing retention more from like a 774 00:40:38,186 --> 00:40:40,556 normal use, not a backup use. 775 00:40:40,736 --> 00:40:41,306 Correct. 776 00:40:41,516 --> 00:40:44,846 But if I was gonna use it from a backup use, that's the way I would do it. 777 00:40:44,846 --> 00:40:48,356 I would say I wanna retain every single thing for 90 days 778 00:40:48,356 --> 00:40:49,676 or whatever the, the term. 779 00:40:49,736 --> 00:40:52,616 And I, I think I could do that, but I know that if I do 780 00:40:52,616 --> 00:40:56,036 that, I can impact the storage. 781 00:40:56,036 --> 00:41:00,026 Going back to one of Prasanna's original questions, I can impact 782 00:41:00,026 --> 00:41:05,516 the amount of storage that 365 uses and as a result, increase my cost. 783 00:41:06,296 --> 00:41:08,636 Oh yeah, the cost, the cost of the cost of storage. 784 00:41:08,906 --> 00:41:13,406 I mean, not even, I'm not sure of the cost of storage associated with 785 00:41:13,406 --> 00:41:18,116 the retention, but general storage, uh, you know, if you reach your, 786 00:41:18,236 --> 00:41:22,721 your current storage, it's something like $200 a month, uh, for a gig. 787 00:41:23,246 --> 00:41:25,241 I mean, that's not, that's, that's a, 788 00:41:25,391 --> 00:41:28,676 it's, it's, by the way, this is something that it shares with Salesforce. 789 00:41:28,676 --> 00:41:34,226 I had, I I, I, I was, I remember being a Salesforce customer and, and the, uh, 790 00:41:34,226 --> 00:41:38,936 an enterprise Salesforce account came with like five gigabytes of storage or 791 00:41:38,936 --> 00:41:40,706 four gigabytes of storage or something. 792 00:41:40,706 --> 00:41:42,476 And I, I had 2 million records. 793 00:41:42,476 --> 00:41:47,216 So we went over that by like two gigabytes, and they came back with 794 00:41:47,216 --> 00:41:50,756 the price, and, and they're like, and, and it was highway robbery. 795 00:41:50,756 --> 00:41:52,376 It was the same kind of pricing. 796 00:41:52,736 --> 00:41:54,206 I was like, are you serious? 797 00:41:54,536 --> 00:41:57,656 Like, they're, they're like, you know, this is the most expensive 798 00:41:57,656 --> 00:42:00,446 storage I have ever seen in my life. 799 00:42:00,626 --> 00:42:03,296 And they were like, well, this is really high end. 800 00:42:03,296 --> 00:42:05,336 I'm like, you're talking to a storage person? 801 00:42:05,516 --> 00:42:05,786 Yes. 802 00:42:05,786 --> 00:42:06,656 This, this better. 803 00:42:06,656 --> 00:42:09,446 They, they better be writing this on gold tablets for this price. 804 00:42:10,076 --> 00:42:15,026 Um, but, but let's talk about, so, so the, the, the, the workflow of, of. 805 00:42:15,611 --> 00:42:18,971 Retrieving 'cause that, that's the term I like to use for pulling stuff 806 00:42:18,971 --> 00:42:24,671 out of an e-discovery, the workflow of retrieving a large amount of data 807 00:42:24,761 --> 00:42:31,721 from, uh, the edc because you used the e-discovery workflow in 365 to 808 00:42:31,721 --> 00:42:33,851 get data that, that has been retained. 809 00:42:34,376 --> 00:42:34,596 Um, 810 00:42:35,111 --> 00:42:36,251 um, yes and no. 811 00:42:36,251 --> 00:42:39,161 I mean, you have okay, if you use e-discovery yes, 812 00:42:39,191 --> 00:42:39,281 Uhhuh, 813 00:42:39,761 --> 00:42:40,031 right? 814 00:42:40,031 --> 00:42:41,676 It actually creates a set. 815 00:42:42,101 --> 00:42:47,321 And let's say I have a, a rule, everything that Vanessa does, all of her emails, 816 00:42:47,321 --> 00:42:52,091 all of her files, everything in her OneDrive and these six SharePoint sites, 817 00:42:52,121 --> 00:42:54,641 um, maybe these three groups, right? 818 00:42:54,641 --> 00:42:58,991 That, that will have a, a very specific defined case. 819 00:42:59,681 --> 00:43:02,651 Um, so a case is something where I would create this case. 820 00:43:03,011 --> 00:43:08,141 I would want to go look for someone and look for any content across all the apps. 821 00:43:08,741 --> 00:43:10,961 Um, and that brings it all together. 822 00:43:11,711 --> 00:43:16,991 Uh, and, and so all of that is all within one, one UI once you're 823 00:43:16,991 --> 00:43:18,341 actually navigating through it. 824 00:43:18,881 --> 00:43:22,241 So it, it does bring it together in a set by all means. 825 00:43:22,511 --> 00:43:22,661 Mm-hmm. 826 00:43:22,991 --> 00:43:28,781 Um, but with regards to content retention, um, what happens with content 827 00:43:28,781 --> 00:43:35,411 retention is I am, you know, I have a finance, uh, secured site and I want 828 00:43:35,411 --> 00:43:40,061 to ensure that I purge everything after, uh, after the last modified 829 00:43:40,061 --> 00:43:41,861 date was, uh, two years ago, right? 830 00:43:41,891 --> 00:43:44,471 Two years, three years, seven years, whatever it is. 831 00:43:45,281 --> 00:43:50,981 And you have a, um, a process that basically sits there and says, 832 00:43:50,981 --> 00:43:53,831 oh, take that and delete that. 833 00:43:54,791 --> 00:43:56,621 That's a, that's a retention. 834 00:43:56,891 --> 00:44:02,291 Like that retention policy is literally to, uh, hold information 835 00:44:02,351 --> 00:44:05,861 and then when it's done, once it hits the certain, right, these certain 836 00:44:05,861 --> 00:44:07,601 parameters, then go delete it. 837 00:44:07,661 --> 00:44:08,681 Go do something with it. 838 00:44:09,371 --> 00:44:09,941 Um. 839 00:44:10,706 --> 00:44:13,526 So that's, there, there are two different types of retention. 840 00:44:13,526 --> 00:44:14,096 So that's, um, 841 00:44:14,486 --> 00:44:20,516 well, I'm, yeah, so I'm just trying to, I, I, I know that retention 842 00:44:20,516 --> 00:44:21,656 is used for multiple things. 843 00:44:21,656 --> 00:44:28,016 I'm just trying to focus on how retention could be used for backup 844 00:44:28,016 --> 00:44:31,871 and recovery purposes and how it would therefore be really bad at that. 845 00:44:32,366 --> 00:44:34,281 That's what I'm, that's what I'm trying to, yeah, 846 00:44:34,886 --> 00:44:37,226 because, because, so right now, the retention that we've talked 847 00:44:37,226 --> 00:44:40,646 about to date has been around the e-discovery use case, right? 848 00:44:40,646 --> 00:44:41,696 It's all put together. 849 00:44:41,696 --> 00:44:45,506 I could retrieve it, but if, say something happens, something was 850 00:44:45,506 --> 00:44:52,046 deleted, can I restore from this retention copy back to say, well, 851 00:44:52,076 --> 00:44:54,326 not directly is, is my understanding. 852 00:44:54,331 --> 00:44:59,606 I, I, there's no way directly to pull something that was retained past, 853 00:45:00,146 --> 00:45:04,886 let, let me rephrase past whatever would be captured by a recycle 854 00:45:04,886 --> 00:45:06,776 bin or the secondary recycle bin. 855 00:45:07,871 --> 00:45:12,101 Once it's gotten past that there's no way to directly pull 856 00:45:12,101 --> 00:45:14,921 it out of the retention pool. 857 00:45:14,921 --> 00:45:17,351 I don't know what the term would be and restore it back. 858 00:45:17,351 --> 00:45:20,711 Would that be a correct assumption or a correct statement? 859 00:45:21,521 --> 00:45:23,231 I'm just trying to visualize that. 860 00:45:23,231 --> 00:45:25,001 I mean, ultimately, if, if, 861 00:45:25,331 --> 00:45:27,671 so your, your problem is Vanessa, you don't 862 00:45:27,701 --> 00:45:27,851 Yeah. 863 00:45:27,881 --> 00:45:29,201 You don't think of it like this. 864 00:45:29,501 --> 00:45:30,371 You don't, don't like, 865 00:45:30,646 --> 00:45:30,766 I, 866 00:45:31,106 --> 00:45:31,526 you're 867 00:45:31,526 --> 00:45:31,566 right. 868 00:45:31,566 --> 00:45:31,686 I 869 00:45:31,686 --> 00:45:34,421 mean, you're like, the retention is not a restore tool, so why would 870 00:45:34,421 --> 00:45:35,711 anybody try to use it that way? 871 00:45:36,041 --> 00:45:41,891 I'm telling you, there are people, well-known, famous people who are 872 00:45:41,891 --> 00:45:46,061 saying that retention policies are all you need for backup, and I'm saying. 873 00:45:46,391 --> 00:45:50,471 There are horrible backup tools because A, you can't restore back directly. 874 00:45:50,801 --> 00:45:54,431 If you do wanna restore, let's say Curtis Deletes or somebody 875 00:45:54,431 --> 00:45:58,661 deletes my entire account, I get attacked by ransomware, whatever, 876 00:45:58,991 --> 00:46:00,911 and my entire account is corrupted. 877 00:46:01,241 --> 00:46:05,381 You cannot use that tool to restore my account. 878 00:46:05,381 --> 00:46:09,581 You can use that tool to give me a giant pile of data. 879 00:46:09,881 --> 00:46:10,061 Of 880 00:46:10,061 --> 00:46:10,451 stuff 881 00:46:10,661 --> 00:46:10,931 Yes. 882 00:46:10,996 --> 00:46:12,131 Of stuff, right? 883 00:46:12,131 --> 00:46:12,371 Yeah. 884 00:46:12,371 --> 00:46:13,511 You know what it is stuff. 885 00:46:13,511 --> 00:46:16,391 It's not data, it's not information, it's stuff, it's a bunch of 886 00:46:16,391 --> 00:46:18,041 files, it's a bunch of emails. 887 00:46:18,401 --> 00:46:24,221 Um, you know, it's a bunch of chat messages, but you can't put that you, 888 00:46:24,221 --> 00:46:26,111 it's like a giant, it's like a big hay. 889 00:46:26,111 --> 00:46:27,611 Here is a haystack. 890 00:46:29,111 --> 00:46:33,161 All you need to do is take all the pieces of hay apart, rearrange them, and 891 00:46:33,161 --> 00:46:34,931 put them back to where they came from. 892 00:46:36,251 --> 00:46:36,521 Right. 893 00:46:36,521 --> 00:46:39,251 And there's different types of, I mean, there's eDiscovery. 894 00:46:39,251 --> 00:46:39,821 Absolutely. 895 00:46:39,821 --> 00:46:43,721 And you know, the purpose of eDiscovery Absolu, uh, is not. 896 00:46:44,396 --> 00:46:46,856 To use it as a, a retention tool. 897 00:46:46,856 --> 00:46:48,896 I mean, I mean, sorry, as a backup tool, right? 898 00:46:48,926 --> 00:46:56,426 It is there to help an organization create rule-based cases to go and find 899 00:46:56,426 --> 00:47:00,356 information throughout the tenant. 900 00:47:00,566 --> 00:47:00,806 Yeah. 901 00:47:00,806 --> 00:47:02,756 It, it's, it's it's discovery tool. 902 00:47:02,756 --> 00:47:03,236 Like that's 903 00:47:03,236 --> 00:47:04,616 absolutely, that's its purpose. 904 00:47:04,621 --> 00:47:08,486 It's, it's, it's to satisfy any discovery request, not a restore request. 905 00:47:09,086 --> 00:47:09,266 Yeah. 906 00:47:09,266 --> 00:47:12,866 I mean, you can also, I mean, people can put like an ar like a, a hold 907 00:47:12,866 --> 00:47:18,416 on an email and say, I want to, you know, apply this policy to, to this 908 00:47:18,421 --> 00:47:20,606 particular, you know, this person's email. 909 00:47:20,666 --> 00:47:22,586 Uh, that's right. 910 00:47:22,736 --> 00:47:25,316 And that, once again, that's over here in this other app. 911 00:47:25,886 --> 00:47:33,806 So the concept of, of someone saying, we use retention as our backup, um, 912 00:47:33,986 --> 00:47:38,666 that's going to be a, a, you know, a painful situation for them if 913 00:47:38,666 --> 00:47:41,126 they actually ever have to restore. 914 00:47:42,206 --> 00:47:43,646 More than just Right. 915 00:47:43,946 --> 00:47:45,536 Restore something at, at a hole. 916 00:47:45,836 --> 00:47:46,136 Right. 917 00:47:46,136 --> 00:47:50,276 That's why I was kind of correcting what Yeah, you said Prasanna, because you 918 00:47:50,276 --> 00:47:54,986 were saying if I, if I delete a thing, like a file or an email, yes, you can get 919 00:47:54,986 --> 00:48:00,656 back a single file or a single email or something, or a document out of retention, 920 00:48:01,046 --> 00:48:07,436 but you, you're not gonna be able to put back Prasannas entire world via that 921 00:48:07,496 --> 00:48:11,876 without a ridiculous, um, level of effort. 922 00:48:12,116 --> 00:48:12,506 Right. 923 00:48:12,506 --> 00:48:17,306 And if, and if it's not just Prasanna, but it's Prasanna and, and everybody, 924 00:48:17,636 --> 00:48:21,536 you know, anywhere related to you because you got infected and then 925 00:48:21,536 --> 00:48:25,826 that got spread to other people, blah, blah, blah, uh, then you're not gonna 926 00:48:25,826 --> 00:48:28,346 be, or some other attack right there. 927 00:48:28,346 --> 00:48:32,216 There have been, you know, I, I do mention, again, trying not to sound 928 00:48:32,216 --> 00:48:35,996 like I'm anti Microsoft, but Microsoft is no different than any other tool. 929 00:48:35,996 --> 00:48:40,046 There have been vulnerabilities that have been published that if. 930 00:48:40,616 --> 00:48:47,726 Um, uh, leveraged could result in someone gaining admin access in a 365 account. 931 00:48:48,181 --> 00:48:49,826 It, it happens, right? 932 00:48:49,886 --> 00:48:54,596 Um, and if they did that and then they did bad things, um, they 933 00:48:54,596 --> 00:48:57,776 could potentially wipe out an entire, you know, organization. 934 00:48:57,956 --> 00:49:00,146 And then you go to Microsoft and you say, we'd like to see our 935 00:49:00,146 --> 00:49:01,946 backup, and they say, you know what? 936 00:49:01,946 --> 00:49:03,446 Backup, right. 937 00:49:04,136 --> 00:49:09,926 Um, 'cause I did, uh, Vanessa, I actually did, uh, like I created a, like an actual, 938 00:49:10,106 --> 00:49:16,466 you know, an organization in 365 and um, and then I interacted with Microsoft 939 00:49:16,466 --> 00:49:20,966 as a customer and I said, let's say the following happens because I mentioned, 940 00:49:20,966 --> 00:49:25,496 so another thing that I've heard is the, that Microsoft has a delayed, 941 00:49:25,916 --> 00:49:31,136 replicated copy of, uh, parts of 365. 942 00:49:31,811 --> 00:49:34,421 Um, that, you know, that there's a copy that's replicated, but 943 00:49:34,421 --> 00:49:36,341 it's, but it's behind in time. 944 00:49:36,401 --> 00:49:36,761 Right. 945 00:49:37,091 --> 00:49:40,181 And that, that could potentially be used to restore your environment. 946 00:49:40,211 --> 00:49:44,141 I contacted Microsoft and I was like, suppose the following happens and 947 00:49:44,141 --> 00:49:48,221 I basically, like some bad person comes in and deletes out my entire 948 00:49:48,221 --> 00:49:55,031 world, can I use, can I contact res support and use your delayed 949 00:49:55,031 --> 00:49:57,251 replicated copy to restore my account? 950 00:49:57,341 --> 00:49:58,721 And they're like, no. 951 00:49:59,861 --> 00:50:02,291 Like, like, that's not what it's for. 952 00:50:02,306 --> 00:50:02,656 Right? 953 00:50:02,656 --> 00:50:02,816 Yeah. 954 00:50:02,816 --> 00:50:03,336 That's for us. 955 00:50:03,791 --> 00:50:04,181 Right. 956 00:50:04,301 --> 00:50:06,611 Um, and so, yeah. 957 00:50:06,611 --> 00:50:10,961 Well, and even know, even in that scenario is you approach 958 00:50:10,961 --> 00:50:13,211 them with a known question. 959 00:50:13,541 --> 00:50:18,131 And it's not always the knowns that bite companies, right? 960 00:50:18,131 --> 00:50:23,501 It's, I don't know what happened or where it happened, but something 961 00:50:23,711 --> 00:50:25,631 is wrong, something happened. 962 00:50:26,111 --> 00:50:27,851 Um, how do I get back up and running, right? 963 00:50:27,851 --> 00:50:28,991 Is what they really wanna know. 964 00:50:29,786 --> 00:50:36,296 Uh, you know, you know, I'd go back to even SQL Server, even whether it's 965 00:50:36,296 --> 00:50:43,016 on-prem or right in Azure, is that I had a million rows and then I came back 966 00:50:43,016 --> 00:50:46,346 the next day and I have 700,000 rows. 967 00:50:46,406 --> 00:50:50,756 I don't know what happened and unless I wanted to go in there, 968 00:50:50,756 --> 00:50:52,106 I just need to get it back. 969 00:50:52,391 --> 00:50:52,831 Hmm mm-hmm. 970 00:50:52,837 --> 00:50:57,986 And that's usually when we're dealing with, you know, any sort of data loss. 971 00:50:57,986 --> 00:51:03,206 It's not, you don't have a person that's, uh, you know, three levels up 972 00:51:03,206 --> 00:51:08,786 from a, uh, let's say a a a, you don't have a CIO sitting up there saying, 973 00:51:09,356 --> 00:51:12,806 I wonder what happened to my email. 974 00:51:13,496 --> 00:51:15,026 They don't care. 975 00:51:15,026 --> 00:51:18,386 What they care about is my email is gone. 976 00:51:19,016 --> 00:51:21,386 And, or the C Right. 977 00:51:21,386 --> 00:51:23,126 The CMOs email is gone. 978 00:51:23,126 --> 00:51:24,746 The ccro email is gone. 979 00:51:25,196 --> 00:51:26,486 That's what they care about. 980 00:51:26,486 --> 00:51:27,836 They want to. 981 00:51:28,721 --> 00:51:29,471 They want action. 982 00:51:29,471 --> 00:51:31,451 It's like, I need you to go fix this. 983 00:51:31,991 --> 00:51:37,811 So it's not usually in, um, you know, in the best interest of someone who's 984 00:51:37,811 --> 00:51:42,341 trying to go restore something to, to fix the problem that they sit 985 00:51:42,341 --> 00:51:45,731 and try and figure out what happened while they're trying to fix it. 986 00:51:46,121 --> 00:51:49,841 Usually it's alright, we'll, we'll come back to that after. 987 00:51:50,591 --> 00:51:54,461 Um, so, you know, when you approach them with a known of, can you, 988 00:51:54,611 --> 00:51:56,441 can you, uh, restore with that? 989 00:51:56,681 --> 00:51:58,001 You know, here's the situation. 990 00:51:58,331 --> 00:52:01,571 The reality is most situations are not, they end up being 991 00:52:01,646 --> 00:52:02,066 unreal. 992 00:52:03,071 --> 00:52:04,451 No, that's, you know what, that's a really good point. 993 00:52:04,481 --> 00:52:06,671 Um, I'm glad you made that point. 994 00:52:06,671 --> 00:52:09,581 I, I make it, I make it in the following. 995 00:52:10,151 --> 00:52:10,661 Um. 996 00:52:11,156 --> 00:52:12,836 Using the following quote, right? 997 00:52:12,836 --> 00:52:15,656 There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio than I dreamt 998 00:52:15,656 --> 00:52:17,516 of in your philosophy, right? 999 00:52:17,546 --> 00:52:22,046 And it's like, listen, there are a lot of ways to do damages to your 1000 00:52:22,046 --> 00:52:26,306 environment that, that you don't even like know about or can dream about. 1001 00:52:26,306 --> 00:52:27,866 And that's why you have backup. 1002 00:52:27,926 --> 00:52:31,556 And while you might have a way to deal with the things that you know about, 1003 00:52:32,216 --> 00:52:35,846 there are other there, you know, there are bad people out there that are trying 1004 00:52:35,846 --> 00:52:39,686 to figure out how to do damage to you so that they can sue you or, or not sue 1005 00:52:39,686 --> 00:52:41,696 you, uh, you know, get ransom from you. 1006 00:52:42,416 --> 00:52:46,976 And, and why would you not have back to protect you from that? 1007 00:52:46,976 --> 00:52:51,116 I just, and, and, and I would really be remiss, we, we have to talk 1008 00:52:51,116 --> 00:52:55,376 about the, the companies that use retention are like the big, like 1009 00:52:55,376 --> 00:52:58,376 fortune, you know, 500 companies. 1010 00:52:58,496 --> 00:53:02,666 Um, to which I immediately wanted to say, you mean like KPMG? 1011 00:53:03,301 --> 00:53:05,216 Yes, yes, yes. 1012 00:53:05,216 --> 00:53:07,766 You're, you're referring to the, the issue. 1013 00:53:08,276 --> 00:53:09,776 So what do you wanna summarize? 1014 00:53:09,776 --> 00:53:10,316 What happened? 1015 00:53:10,611 --> 00:53:10,851 Yeah. 1016 00:53:10,851 --> 00:53:17,121 So if, if I recall this one correctly, um, there was a policy that they 1017 00:53:17,121 --> 00:53:19,101 wanted to apply to an individual 1018 00:53:19,341 --> 00:53:19,461 mm-hmm. 1019 00:53:19,761 --> 00:53:20,901 If I'm not mistaken, right? 1020 00:53:21,801 --> 00:53:21,861 Yeah. 1021 00:53:21,861 --> 00:53:24,631 They, Microsoft wanted to delete that person's personal 1022 00:53:24,651 --> 00:53:26,151 chat history was the policy. 1023 00:53:26,151 --> 00:53:26,361 Correct. 1024 00:53:26,871 --> 00:53:27,111 Right. 1025 00:53:27,116 --> 00:53:31,791 And they applied the policy, the group probably on the group policy, whatever 1026 00:53:31,791 --> 00:53:36,561 the group policy, whoever was involved in that group, and it deleted all of 1027 00:53:36,561 --> 00:53:40,401 the teams chat completely everywhere 1028 00:53:40,406 --> 00:53:43,281 for, for 146,000 people. 1029 00:53:43,281 --> 00:53:44,241 Oh my gosh. 1030 00:53:44,451 --> 00:53:45,681 That used, right. 1031 00:53:45,681 --> 00:53:46,251 Used teams. 1032 00:53:46,251 --> 00:53:51,531 And so it's, it's, you know, it, it's a, that was a hard, hard 1033 00:53:51,741 --> 00:53:54,201 day, week, month for that person 1034 00:53:54,336 --> 00:53:54,711 I feel, I feel. 1035 00:53:54,711 --> 00:53:55,461 But it was unintentional. 1036 00:53:55,536 --> 00:53:55,616 I 1037 00:53:55,616 --> 00:53:56,481 feel for that person, man. 1038 00:53:56,481 --> 00:53:56,721 Yeah. 1039 00:53:56,721 --> 00:53:57,416 Unintentional, right? 1040 00:53:57,446 --> 00:53:58,856 Like you saids happen. 1041 00:53:58,856 --> 00:53:59,056 Un 1042 00:53:59,841 --> 00:54:00,111 yeah. 1043 00:54:00,111 --> 00:54:01,161 And it's Right. 1044 00:54:01,161 --> 00:54:04,231 Knowledge la uh, and not quite understanding the, the. 1045 00:54:05,216 --> 00:54:06,116 What happens? 1046 00:54:07,466 --> 00:54:07,556 Yeah. 1047 00:54:07,556 --> 00:54:07,681 And education. 1048 00:54:07,681 --> 00:54:07,811 And they 1049 00:54:07,881 --> 00:54:08,161 con And 1050 00:54:08,551 --> 00:54:08,841 what 1051 00:54:08,921 --> 00:54:11,036 happened when they, what happened when they contacted Microsoft? 1052 00:54:11,996 --> 00:54:13,406 I think they said that they couldn't do it. 1053 00:54:13,646 --> 00:54:13,946 Yeah. 1054 00:54:13,951 --> 00:54:14,311 Didn't they? 1055 00:54:14,311 --> 00:54:14,471 Yeah. 1056 00:54:14,546 --> 00:54:15,476 They're like, yeah, sorry. 1057 00:54:15,896 --> 00:54:16,226 Right. 1058 00:54:16,226 --> 00:54:16,286 Yeah. 1059 00:54:16,286 --> 00:54:16,616 Sorry. 1060 00:54:16,616 --> 00:54:18,686 That, you know, you should have been backing that up, right. 1061 00:54:19,376 --> 00:54:21,506 By the way, actually, that, that was personal chats. 1062 00:54:21,506 --> 00:54:27,911 And most companies, uh, don't, aren't able to back up personal chats because again, 1063 00:54:29,066 --> 00:54:33,686 APIs, although we, we figured out a way to go get that data, but, um, but most 1064 00:54:33,686 --> 00:54:35,216 companies aren't able to back that up. 1065 00:54:35,216 --> 00:54:39,566 So, um, even if they had had backup, they wouldn't have been able to, to 1066 00:54:39,566 --> 00:54:41,726 fix this for, for most companies. 1067 00:54:41,726 --> 00:54:46,316 But amazingly, we've been talking about this just to backup for an hour now. 1068 00:54:46,556 --> 00:54:48,356 I'm just super excited that like, I mean, you, 1069 00:54:48,686 --> 00:54:49,496 he's giddy. 1070 00:54:49,706 --> 00:54:53,756 You actually touched this stuff and you, you speak from a, from a 1071 00:54:53,756 --> 00:54:57,656 frame of reference of like, I, it's funny, as frustrated as I was with 1072 00:54:57,656 --> 00:55:02,336 your answers on the, on the, um, the retention policies because you. 1073 00:55:03,161 --> 00:55:07,211 Coming at them from the way that you would normally use retention. 1074 00:55:07,506 --> 00:55:07,826 Right. 1075 00:55:08,686 --> 00:55:09,346 You know, it's like 1076 00:55:09,406 --> 00:55:13,721 how, right, how retention is actually used when, when used. 1077 00:55:13,991 --> 00:55:18,521 Um, I, I've read that and not just, I mean, I've read that in a number of 1078 00:55:18,521 --> 00:55:24,371 places and that basically when people talk about retention, they should not 1079 00:55:24,371 --> 00:55:26,321 speak back up in the same sentence. 1080 00:55:26,351 --> 00:55:27,851 It is not the same thing. 1081 00:55:28,931 --> 00:55:28,991 Yeah. 1082 00:55:29,321 --> 00:55:32,951 It serves, it might seem like it has the same thing, but it 1083 00:55:33,281 --> 00:55:34,721 serves two different purposes. 1084 00:55:35,261 --> 00:55:41,141 Um, and truly should not be considered to be, um, a method an organization 1085 00:55:41,141 --> 00:55:43,781 relies on to back up anything. 1086 00:55:44,051 --> 00:55:44,561 Um, let me, 1087 00:55:44,861 --> 00:55:46,211 let me ask you a question, Vanessa. 1088 00:55:46,211 --> 00:55:52,961 Can you, can you, using whatever tools, can I easily copy like an entire 1089 00:55:53,651 --> 00:56:01,181 user, like, like can I clone an entire user's stuff to another user in 365? 1090 00:56:02,666 --> 00:56:03,086 No. 1091 00:56:03,626 --> 00:56:03,686 Oh, 1092 00:56:03,986 --> 00:56:09,776 not, not give me an exact copy of every place and everywhere. 1093 00:56:10,256 --> 00:56:13,766 Uh, you know, the moment you log in to the moment, you, right. 1094 00:56:13,766 --> 00:56:17,336 Everything that you see about a user is in a transaction. 1095 00:56:18,146 --> 00:56:21,896 Uh, user uploaded, a user edited a, so there's, there could be 1096 00:56:21,896 --> 00:56:26,576 a million transactions mixed in with hundreds of millions of other 1097 00:56:26,576 --> 00:56:28,616 transactions that other users have had. 1098 00:56:29,276 --> 00:56:32,156 So to say, I wanna go make a copy of this. 1099 00:56:32,396 --> 00:56:37,376 And remember we talk about all of the a user and the fact that they 1100 00:56:37,376 --> 00:56:39,356 can belong to multiple groups. 1101 00:56:40,316 --> 00:56:45,146 So I can be in multiple groups, so I can't, I can't go and say, replicate 1102 00:56:45,146 --> 00:56:47,246 this user and everything about it. 1103 00:56:47,366 --> 00:56:47,696 Okay. 1104 00:56:47,816 --> 00:56:48,026 All right. 1105 00:56:48,026 --> 00:56:50,216 I was kind of hoping, I was kind of hoping the answer was yes, 1106 00:56:50,216 --> 00:56:51,416 but clearly the answer is no. 1107 00:56:51,816 --> 00:56:52,176 Okay. 1108 00:56:52,626 --> 00:56:55,596 Well, what, we're gonna have to close this out 'cause we're gonna talk all day. 1109 00:56:55,716 --> 00:56:56,166 Uh, 1110 00:56:56,226 --> 00:56:56,496 yeah. 1111 00:56:57,726 --> 00:56:58,206 Vanessa. 1112 00:56:58,206 --> 00:56:59,976 We have talked for like an hour. 1113 00:57:00,336 --> 00:57:02,556 I don't wanna sound like I'm anti Microsoft, right? 1114 00:57:02,586 --> 00:57:07,206 Even though, you know, I am a, I am an old, an old Unix guy. 1115 00:57:07,566 --> 00:57:09,366 Um, and, and I use a Mac. 1116 00:57:09,366 --> 00:57:12,516 Like, I, I don't dislike the company or, you know, whatever. 1117 00:57:12,646 --> 00:57:18,436 I care about their data and it bothers me tremendously that, that so many 1118 00:57:18,526 --> 00:57:22,726 Microsoft 365 customers and G Suite customers and Salesforce customers 1119 00:57:23,146 --> 00:57:27,766 think that their data is protected by the platform itself and it's not. 1120 00:57:27,796 --> 00:57:30,976 So, um, you know, thank you so much for explaining it 1121 00:57:31,026 --> 00:57:31,536 absolutely. 1122 00:57:31,536 --> 00:57:33,426 You guys are so welcome and I appreciate being. 1123 00:57:34,341 --> 00:57:38,151 Uh, we are, we appreciate you being on, we appreciate, 1124 00:57:38,211 --> 00:57:39,961 uh, the listeners' Prasanna. 1125 00:57:39,981 --> 00:57:41,271 I appreciate you. 1126 00:57:41,601 --> 00:57:43,131 I appreciate you too, Curtis. 1127 00:57:43,131 --> 00:57:43,551 Sometimes 1128 00:57:43,551 --> 00:57:47,841 it's like a mutual, mutual appreciation fest, um, even 1129 00:57:47,841 --> 00:57:49,131 if I am jealous of your hair. 1130 00:57:49,521 --> 00:57:50,001 All right. 1131 00:57:50,001 --> 00:57:53,331 And make sure, uh, listeners, thank you for sticking with us this 1132 00:57:53,331 --> 00:57:54,681 far, and make sure to subscribe