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Wow.

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Hello, I'm Matt Edmundson and you are
listening to the eCommerce Podcast.

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Now, I've been an eCommerce since 2002.

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If you're regular to the show,
you'll know this, but if you're new

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to the show, a very warm welcome.

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Like you, I run my own eCommerce business.

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Has been in the trenches, been been there.

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Seen that, done that, got the
t-shirt, and just love chatting

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to people about eCommerce.

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And these days I partner with eCommerce
brands to help them grow, scale and exit.

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That's kind of what I get into.

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And if you'd like to know more about
that and how that works and whether or

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not we could work together, head over
to our website, ecommerce-podcast.net

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or one word ecommerce-podcast.net.

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Now, today, ladies and gentlemen,
you'll be pleased to know.

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We are talking about that most
delectable and delightful conversation.

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All to do with influencer marketing.

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We have a go-to expert on this.

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Mr. William.

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We are gonna be chatting to him.

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So William, welcome to the show.

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Great to have you on, man.

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Uh, appreciate you being here.

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And I'd like I said to you
before, hit the record button.

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Let's just hit the ground running.

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Influencer marketing.

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We all screw it up.

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What's the, what's the main
way we screw up influencer

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marketing and how can we fix it?

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Well, first off, thanks
for having me on, Matt.

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I'm excited to dive in.

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So hit the ground running.

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Um, biggest thing.

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How people screw up influencer
marketing is their perception of

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what influencers are and putting
too many eggs in one basket.

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so when most people think about
influencers, you think of the Kardashians,

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you think of these celebrities
with millions of followers, right?

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Yeah.

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social media's changed a lot in
the past decade where it used to

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be the fact that you went on social
media, you posted on a Monday and.

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If all of your followers were
on social by Wednesday, they

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would all have seen your content.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And now

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I remember those days.

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The good old days.

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Absolutely.

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It was very, it was much easier,
honestly, like, and, and follower base

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was a very, very important metric.

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that's kind of now gone out the window.

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And most people, like when they're going
after influencer marketing, they're

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like, I'm only gonna work with the
people with that big follower base.

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where things have shifted
is a content led strategy.

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So how the social platforms have
changed is that if you're not producing

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really good content, regardless of your
follower base, only a certain percentage

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of your followers are actually going
to see the content that you put out.

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Um, and so what's happened is these
celebrities, these people with millions

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of followers, sometimes only 1% or less
than 1% of their audience actually ends up

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Yeah.

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the stuff that they
actually create, right?

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What the social platforms have also done
is if, if there's someone produces a

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really great piece of content, they're
not just gonna show that to the people who

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are following them, they're gonna start
showing that beyond their follower base.

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And so, um, you could literally have a
thousand followers on social media and

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get a post that gets a million views.

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And

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Yep.

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These social shifts have changed
the playing field, and it's a big

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mistake people really do is that they
just focus and pay huge amounts of

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money to someone with this massive
follower base as opposed to focusing

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on the content someone produces.

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Who they're catering to,
kind of the niche audience.

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And it's, it's also shifted this
playing field to allow much smaller

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creators to become as valuable as
these celebrity promotions promoters,

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Yeah.

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and open the gateway, we call
it, democratizing the social

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media or the influencer world.

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Um, and it made these, what the
industry calls nano or micro

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influencers, much more powerful in 2025.

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It's a really interesting comment because
I, I, one of the things that I've noticed

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will, and, and maybe you can talk to
this, right, uh, I'm a big fan of YouTube.

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Um, just I, I watch it a lot, right?

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As a lot of people do,
and I, I have my hobbies.

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I like wood.

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Working.

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I like doing those kind of things
and I will watch videos on how to, I

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don't know, do this particular type
of wood joint or something like that.

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One of the things that I have noticed, the
videos that, that are starting to come up

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more and more on my feed are not the how
to get a million followers on YouTube.

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Um, it's more now how to make.

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$150,000 from a hundred
followers on YouTube, right?

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It seems to be that the
change has been around.

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Not grow a big ass audience,
but actually take what you've

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got and monetize that deeply.

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In other words, there are ways that you
can make small audiences work for you.

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This is kind of what my interpretation
of those, uh, titles are, and

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I'm seeing that more and more.

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I'm seeing it more in
the podcasting world.

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Um.

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On one of our, uh, sort of
sister company podcasts, if you

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want of a better expression.

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Um, we had, um, someone was recently
talking about how they made 150

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grand, but only had like a hundred
followers or a hundred downloads

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or something on their podcast.

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I mean, it was, it is crazy, you
know, the, sort of the numbers.

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But this is what we're
noticing more and more, right?

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It's less and less about the big numbers.

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It's more and more about what you
can do with the small audiences.

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So when, when I hear you talking.

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I'm hearing you say to someone
like me who's an econ brand, sure.

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You can go after, I think you used
the example of Beyonce or whoever

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it was, you know, Britney Spears.

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I don't know.

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Kylie Minogue, uh, would be more my era.

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Um, I. But that's expensive
for not guaranteed success.

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But actually you can now
use the micro influencers.

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The whole thing is democratized.

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And like you say, certainly
I see this on TikTok.

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I can, I can post something on
TikTok with an account that's got 68

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followers and it'll get thousands and
thousands of views in interactions.

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Um, it,

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spearheaded this trend.

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Yeah.

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It seems to be, I, I dunno if it's
tiktoks way of, um, getting you sucked

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into the platform, you know, you're
a new account, we're gonna give you

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stupid views to make you feel like
you're doing something special.

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Um, and it sort of dies off a little bit.

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I dunno, but I'm, I'm intrigued
by this idea of micro influencers.

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But before we get back into that whole
topic, the smaller numbers thing,

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the other thing you mentioned, so
you mentioned perception, but you

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said too many eggs in one basket.

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What did you mean by that?

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Yeah, so as an eCommerce brand
or honestly any brand, right?

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Um, you only have a limited marketing
budget and naturally influencers

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with a massive following, millions of
followers, they're going to charge you.

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And same thing would be for a podcast or
anyone with this massive follower base.

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their fee for a sponsorship or um,
a promotion is gonna be quite big.

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Hmm.

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And the reality is, is you're putting,
by putting most of your marketing budget

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into that bet, you are putting a lot
of your eggs in one basket in the sense

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that like it could be hit or miss.

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And that's the

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Yeah.

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'cause of how things have changed.

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Like if that celebrity doesn't
produce that best content for your.

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first off, it's not gonna go beyond
their follower base and it might

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be only to a very limited pool.

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Whereas if you a lot of your eggs
in multiple baskets, right, like

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Mm.

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your risk across maybe a hundred different
smaller creators, um, you are increasing

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your chances of that viral moment.

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You are increasing your overall
engagement levels across each

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one of those individual profiles.

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'cause of the smaller profiles naturally.

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people who care, right?

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It's like

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Yeah.

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close acquaintances, passionate followers
who are actually in their follower pool.

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And it's more authentic, right?

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Like when you have a small audience,
you're real, you're not like truly fake.

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You're not getting paid massive
amounts of money for a promotion,

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which about a product that you do
not care anything about, right?

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Um, like a lot of these smaller creators
sometimes do things because they

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actually just love the product itself.

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They'll do it for free

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Yeah.

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Um, so it just becomes this
much more authentic thing.

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And, and just one other note to add
to your note about what you're seeing

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in the YouTube world, um, the social
platforms, what they realized is like

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when social media first developed,
um, they wanted to get as many

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people following everyone, right?

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Like more people you followed.

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I think Facebook's kind of growth
hack was like, we want 10, follow

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someone to follow or get 10 friends in.

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Um, 30 days or something

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Yeah.

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Right?

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And it was like the more
connections you had, the more you

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became sticky to the platform.

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as things evolved, what happened was
like you started following random

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people you didn't really care about.

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You know what I mean?

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Like your friend was following
it, it was a recommended thing.

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Someone you

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Yeah.

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ago, like you just also, then all of
a sudden you had thousand, you were

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following hundreds or thousands of
people that like, you didn't really.

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Like their content or engage
with their content, right?

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And then when you went on to a Facebook,
an Instagram, like you would, your

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feed would then just be filled up with
all this content from people that you

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had followed at one point, but you
don't really care about their life or

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about what their story is, et cetera.

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And then you just leave the platform.

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And they hate that, right?

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They want to keep you sticky.

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And obviously there's a play
of just feeding you new stuff

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to kind of get you hooked.

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But the real reality is, if.

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There is some piece of content that
someone produced that's really, really

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engaging and everyone loves it, right?

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odds are that someone who's not
following that account would like it to

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are pretty high, and so now Instagram
TikTok is showing you content that

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just overall has very high engagement

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Mm-hmm.

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gonna make people stay
on the platform, and so.

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I mean like the, there's this new
saying, obviously it's not super

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new, but like content is king, right?

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And it, and it rings true, um,
in the influencer world and the

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social media world dramatically
as well because, and it gives this

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power to these smaller creators.

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Um, and to your point, like gone are
the days where you really needed to

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have this top podcast with thousands,
hundreds of thousands of accounts.

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Same thing on the social side
for the influencers, um, to be a

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really valuable asset to a brand.

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And now you can really work,
diversify that budget across a much

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smaller creators and, um, just get
a much better bang for your buck.

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00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:31,570
That's so true.

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I think it's, um, and, and also
it flips what I'm hearing, which I

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think is delightfully refreshing,
is, is it flips the script, right?

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So, um, I I, I'm a, you know, a small
e-comm business, for example, I don't

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have to, I don't have to worry if I
haven't got 20,000 followers on my

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brand's Instagram account, right?

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Yeah.

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I, I, I just, I can do more with a
hundred well-intentioned followers

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than I can do with 20,000 people that
could care less about my brand, right?

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That never really engage with it.

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And so I think it, it, it
feels like it works both ways.

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00:11:08,170 --> 00:11:12,340
It's like, as I use influencer
marketing, I don't necessarily need to

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00:11:12,340 --> 00:11:14,590
be concerned about the numbers per se.

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There are things I do need to
care about, which we'll get into.

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00:11:17,515 --> 00:11:17,785
Yeah.

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00:11:17,915 --> 00:11:22,295
also when I'm building my own Insta,
my own social media channels, my

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own podcast, my YouTube channel, my
own Instagram, whatever it is, um,

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I think we're slowly becoming less
and less concerned about the numbers.

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00:11:30,214 --> 00:11:33,454
And there are other, as in the follow
account, there are things which, which

236
00:11:33,454 --> 00:11:34,895
are a lot more interesting to us.

237
00:11:35,435 --> 00:11:40,834
Um, which I, I think takes the pressure
off, uh, in, in, in many ways for people.

238
00:11:41,615 --> 00:11:45,905
Um, I read a stat here which said
almost half of all consumers.

239
00:11:46,285 --> 00:11:50,364
So when it says almost half, it said
49%, which I'm gonna say is actually

240
00:11:50,364 --> 00:11:55,194
half, um, half of all consumers
make a purchase at least once a

241
00:11:55,194 --> 00:11:58,944
month because of influencer posts.

242
00:11:59,755 --> 00:12:00,445
Absolutely.

243
00:12:00,565 --> 00:12:01,045
Yeah,

244
00:12:01,614 --> 00:12:03,775
I mean, that's a, it's an incredible stat.

245
00:12:03,775 --> 00:12:03,805
I.

246
00:12:04,165 --> 00:12:10,675
It is, it is, um, it is remarkable
and it, it shows the power, right?

247
00:12:10,675 --> 00:12:14,905
It's like, and the real reality behind
it, and this is something influencers have

248
00:12:14,905 --> 00:12:19,764
kind of, a lot of people have perceived
them as this weird negative connotation,

249
00:12:19,764 --> 00:12:24,774
like this sellout, like who's just,
are all sparkles and glitter, right?

250
00:12:25,104 --> 00:12:30,295
Um, but the essence of influencers is
really word of mouth marketing, right?

251
00:12:30,295 --> 00:12:30,384
It's.

252
00:12:30,459 --> 00:12:30,790
Yeah.

253
00:12:30,954 --> 00:12:36,415
A trusted referral from someone
who you some affinity towards

254
00:12:36,415 --> 00:12:38,665
or trust their opinion, right?

255
00:12:38,964 --> 00:12:44,244
Um, and like that is the oldest
and mo best marketing tactic in

256
00:12:44,244 --> 00:12:45,354
the history of the world, right?

257
00:12:45,415 --> 00:12:45,925
Yeah.

258
00:12:45,925 --> 00:12:49,795
you trust your friends more than
ads more than anything else.

259
00:12:50,155 --> 00:12:55,375
And what's happened is we've this, in this
digital era of social media, you become

260
00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:57,324
friends with all of these different.

261
00:12:57,685 --> 00:12:59,395
People across the world, right?

262
00:12:59,545 --> 00:13:02,365
Maybe not a very close acquaintance,
but like you trust them in some

263
00:13:02,365 --> 00:13:06,445
capacity, especially the smaller kind
of people who are more niche, right?

264
00:13:06,565 --> 00:13:09,985
Who like you're really, we like
to honestly shift the term of

265
00:13:09,985 --> 00:13:11,455
influencers to passion promoters.

266
00:13:11,815 --> 00:13:13,645
Like if you're passionate about
something, you're passionate

267
00:13:13,645 --> 00:13:14,695
about woodworking, right?

268
00:13:14,875 --> 00:13:18,325
You're gonna be following accounts
that are like master woodworkers.

269
00:13:18,325 --> 00:13:22,615
Maybe they're not professional woodworkers
who own this like multinational

270
00:13:22,615 --> 00:13:24,085
woodworking corporation, right?

271
00:13:24,325 --> 00:13:24,775
But.

272
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,410
They're in their shop, they're
making really great things, and

273
00:13:29,410 --> 00:13:32,740
they're teaching you how to do
what you want to do best, right?

274
00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:33,819
And so you trust them.

275
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,439
And so when they're gonna recommend some
wood glue or the best kind of jigsaw

276
00:13:38,439 --> 00:13:43,000
to actually use, to cut your wood, um,
you're gonna probably actually trust them

277
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,980
more than that multinational company or
that CEO is going to tell you what to do.

278
00:13:48,235 --> 00:13:49,225
Yeah, without a doubt.

279
00:13:50,110 --> 00:13:56,560
That's, it comes down to why now, like
one outta two sales are coming from, uh,

280
00:13:56,590 --> 00:13:58,210
from these influencer emotions online.

281
00:13:58,630 --> 00:13:59,830
Yeah, it's, it's incredible.

282
00:13:59,890 --> 00:14:00,460
It's incredible.

283
00:14:01,060 --> 00:14:04,810
Ladies and gentlemen, listen, if you are
enjoying this show and why would you not

284
00:14:04,810 --> 00:14:08,980
be, then let me invite you to something
we are calling e-commerce Cohort.

285
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,980
Uh, Cohort is a. Kind of,
how would I describe Cohort?

286
00:14:13,130 --> 00:14:15,320
It's basically where you get
together on a Zoom call with

287
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:16,760
other eCommerce entrepreneurs.

288
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,070
We've got one in New
Zealand, uh, and Australia.

289
00:14:19,070 --> 00:14:20,510
We've got one in the uk.

290
00:14:20,510 --> 00:14:21,380
We've got one.

291
00:14:21,770 --> 00:14:24,170
So starting in the summer in
the States, a new one starting

292
00:14:24,170 --> 00:14:25,160
in the summer in the States.

293
00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:28,160
Uh, the smallish groups come
meet some fellow eCommerce

294
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,270
entrepreneurs, shoot the breeze.

295
00:14:29,270 --> 00:14:30,260
Talk about eCommerce.

296
00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:31,220
It's totally free.

297
00:14:31,220 --> 00:14:34,205
And if you'd like to know more about
where you can join those groups.

298
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:37,910
Just go to the website
ecommerce-podcast.net.

299
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:39,990
That's ecommerce-podcast.net.

300
00:14:40,569 --> 00:14:45,340
Now let's talk about the how
then will, because I, I get it.

301
00:14:45,395 --> 00:14:49,150
I, I, I, I've just written a series
of blog posts actually, which is

302
00:14:49,150 --> 00:14:50,560
slowly getting released on LinkedIn.

303
00:14:50,650 --> 00:14:54,640
A small plug for my LinkedIn can follow
me on LinkedIn at my Edmundson anyway, um.

304
00:14:56,079 --> 00:15:01,300
I've just read a series of posts on
LinkedIn about story, um, and using

305
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,689
story to effectively engage people
and how actually Google Analytics

306
00:15:04,689 --> 00:15:06,729
can't measure this that well, right?

307
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,209
It Google Analytics can't tell
you if somebody smiled when

308
00:15:10,209 --> 00:15:11,199
they were on your webpage.

309
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,079
One of the things that came out in
that research, which I thought was

310
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:20,319
fascinating, was about 60 to 70% of.

311
00:15:21,145 --> 00:15:27,535
Um, your direct traffic is probably
coming from referrals, but no one

312
00:15:27,535 --> 00:15:31,855
knows how to capture that, whether
that's they've seen a influencer

313
00:15:31,855 --> 00:15:36,324
post somewhere, or whether that's a
friend telling them or whatever it is.

314
00:15:36,324 --> 00:15:39,805
I mean, it's again, stupid high
amounts of data, which we just

315
00:15:39,805 --> 00:15:40,765
can't measure, and we just.

316
00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:45,029
I think because it's not a metric we see
on Google Analytics, it's one of those

317
00:15:45,029 --> 00:15:47,729
things that just sort of goes down the
bottom of the list, isn't it really?

318
00:15:48,155 --> 00:15:48,444
Yeah,

319
00:15:48,449 --> 00:15:52,560
Um, so the big question then
is how, how do I get started?

320
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:53,399
How do I do this?

321
00:15:53,399 --> 00:15:54,719
How do I, how do I do this?

322
00:15:54,724 --> 00:15:54,904
Well,

323
00:15:56,530 --> 00:15:57,219
great question.

324
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,249
So little backstory on myself.

325
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:01,150
Very brief.

326
00:16:01,209 --> 00:16:03,609
I was actually an eCommerce
seller since 2008.

327
00:16:03,954 --> 00:16:05,574
Little after you in 2002.

328
00:16:06,024 --> 00:16:06,864
But, um,

329
00:16:07,034 --> 00:16:07,154
I.

330
00:16:07,285 --> 00:16:09,415
to actually also make some do woodworking.

331
00:16:09,415 --> 00:16:13,104
I sold cutting boards,
handmade cutting boards,

332
00:16:13,464 --> 00:16:15,204
Very popular with YouTubers.

333
00:16:15,204 --> 00:16:15,535
Yes.

334
00:16:15,535 --> 00:16:20,785
yeah, um, jewelry, toy products,
teeth whitening products.

335
00:16:20,785 --> 00:16:24,594
So the whole gambit across my own
eCommerce websites, Amazon, you name it.

336
00:16:26,545 --> 00:16:30,384
how I got into influencer marketing was I
was using it and how I ended up starting.

337
00:16:30,699 --> 00:16:33,579
The company that I have today,
which is Stack Influence, that helps

338
00:16:33,579 --> 00:16:39,699
brands, um, actually connect and
scale micro influencers, um, across

339
00:16:39,699 --> 00:16:43,839
the eCommerce e ecosystem, was I
was using these tactics myself.

340
00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:45,670
And so to answer your question of how.

341
00:16:46,495 --> 00:16:48,055
Um, how do you start?

342
00:16:48,115 --> 00:16:48,595
Right?

343
00:16:48,895 --> 00:16:51,745
Um, so how we started when we were
first kind of getting our feet

344
00:16:51,745 --> 00:16:53,365
wet was we did the whole gambit.

345
00:16:53,425 --> 00:16:57,535
And when I also talked about putting all
your eggs in one basket, don't, and like

346
00:16:57,835 --> 00:17:01,045
celebrity influencers can be hit or miss
sometimes they can work fantastic, right?

347
00:17:01,045 --> 00:17:05,724
Like you find the right creator who's
really like right in your niche and,

348
00:17:06,115 --> 00:17:08,964
um, you pay them $10,000, right?

349
00:17:08,964 --> 00:17:12,595
Sometimes it can be a fantastic
ROI, it just can be a risk.

350
00:17:12,685 --> 00:17:13,165
And so.

351
00:17:14,244 --> 00:17:17,754
We use the full spectrum of different
types of influencers and went out

352
00:17:17,814 --> 00:17:21,204
after the celebrities by finding
maybe someone on YouTube or Instagram

353
00:17:21,204 --> 00:17:24,444
and DMing them or finding their
agent, getting in touch with them.

354
00:17:24,444 --> 00:17:24,774
Right.

355
00:17:25,165 --> 00:17:28,344
Um, wasn't too complex usually
to, if you're trying to pay

356
00:17:28,344 --> 00:17:31,675
someone thousands of dollars to,
uh, get them to take your money.

357
00:17:31,675 --> 00:17:31,975
Right.

358
00:17:32,364 --> 00:17:38,965
Um, but what we ended up starting to
realize was as this social media platform

359
00:17:38,965 --> 00:17:43,675
shift happened and content became kind
of more of the forefront strategy and

360
00:17:43,735 --> 00:17:48,144
us realizing that like, Hey, we just
sent a free product to someone who had

361
00:17:48,144 --> 00:17:52,560
5,000 followers, and that post drove
us more sales than the $10,000 we.

362
00:17:53,410 --> 00:17:55,780
to this like person with 5
million followers, right?

363
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,350
Um, it was a crazy like, epiphany.

364
00:17:59,350 --> 00:18:01,960
And so we were like, how do we
get more of these types of people?

365
00:18:02,410 --> 00:18:10,900
And the initial strategy is just diving
extremely deep into media search, right?

366
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,920
So let's say that you are selling
a yoga mat and you're trying to,

367
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,080
or actually, um, a protein powder.

368
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,660
You're trying to find people who are
interested in health and wellness, right?

369
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:21,190
Maybe you search.

370
00:18:22,105 --> 00:18:24,865
Um, different fitness gyms, right?

371
00:18:24,865 --> 00:18:29,635
Like LA Fitness or, um,
different 24 Hour Fitness, right?

372
00:18:29,635 --> 00:18:30,925
Like, and people who are tagging those.

373
00:18:30,925 --> 00:18:34,105
If someone's tagging that on social
media, probably interested in fitness,

374
00:18:34,195 --> 00:18:35,574
they're probably passionate about it.

375
00:18:35,665 --> 00:18:38,125
They might be interested in a protein
powder that you're selling, right?

376
00:18:38,365 --> 00:18:40,080
And so then really just start.

377
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:45,159
DMing these people trying to get their
email addresses outreaching, creating a,

378
00:18:45,310 --> 00:18:50,139
some sort of pitch to them of what the
value that you're offering is not maybe

379
00:18:50,139 --> 00:18:53,139
just a free product, but maybe you're
gonna give them a commission of sales.

380
00:18:53,470 --> 00:18:54,730
They share an affiliate link.

381
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:59,409
Um, maybe you give them rewards
if they actually certain goals

382
00:18:59,470 --> 00:19:00,820
with impressions, et cetera.

383
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,290
So come up with a pitch.

384
00:19:02,350 --> 00:19:03,970
Come up with a brief of kind of.

385
00:19:05,005 --> 00:19:08,005
Give them creative control, but you wanna
push them in the right direction, right?

386
00:19:08,005 --> 00:19:10,975
You wanna make sure that that
content is aligned with your

387
00:19:10,975 --> 00:19:12,085
brand and your aesthetic.

388
00:19:13,075 --> 00:19:16,495
give them a deadline and, and try
to get them to do the promotion.

389
00:19:17,635 --> 00:19:18,895
Takes a decent amount of work.

390
00:19:18,925 --> 00:19:20,875
And it took us a lot of
work in the beginning.

391
00:19:21,205 --> 00:19:26,545
And part of the reason why Stack
Influence our company even started was

392
00:19:26,545 --> 00:19:30,505
because we started building out internal
tools, um, to optimize this process.

393
00:19:30,505 --> 00:19:33,115
The biggest challenge we faced was.

394
00:19:34,075 --> 00:19:38,514
we were deciding to scale and we wanted
to do like hundreds or thousands of

395
00:19:38,514 --> 00:19:43,135
promotions for certain products and new
launches, it became very difficult to

396
00:19:43,135 --> 00:19:45,025
find enough people in a short timeframe.

397
00:19:45,025 --> 00:19:48,055
Like I wanna, how do you find a thousand
people to do promotions in a month?

398
00:19:48,055 --> 00:19:48,355
Right?

399
00:19:48,355 --> 00:19:50,709
I. for the most part.

400
00:19:50,709 --> 00:19:54,909
But like we started to build out
automation tools in-house, like a lot

401
00:19:54,909 --> 00:20:00,189
of things like scraping AP or tapping
into APIs on social media to kind of do

402
00:20:00,189 --> 00:20:02,530
those searches to find the right people.

403
00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:04,449
Auto email campaigns.

404
00:20:04,770 --> 00:20:09,150
Putting people into follow up sequence,
like sequences to actually reengage with

405
00:20:09,150 --> 00:20:10,800
them, remind them of certain tactics.

406
00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:14,850
and that really became the
foundation of stack influence,

407
00:20:14,995 --> 00:20:15,324
Right.

408
00:20:15,540 --> 00:20:18,780
and why we started as a company in
general, but very accessible for

409
00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:20,130
any brand to get their feet wet.

410
00:20:20,130 --> 00:20:23,280
And some people, when you're an
e-commerce brand, especially if you're

411
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:28,140
just starting out, um, you think it's
inaccessible, but like absolutely you can

412
00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:30,870
find 10, 20 people who are willing to.

413
00:20:31,269 --> 00:20:34,719
Um, if not, do something for
just a free product exchange, at

414
00:20:34,719 --> 00:20:38,379
least do something for affiliate
commissions or a small monetary fee.

415
00:20:38,409 --> 00:20:39,820
Maybe it'd be a hundred bucks per post.

416
00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:40,120
Right.

417
00:20:40,570 --> 00:20:42,340
Um, and test the market.

418
00:20:42,340 --> 00:20:46,179
And that's a really important thing
to get started, is like not every

419
00:20:46,179 --> 00:20:48,340
product is promoted in the same way.

420
00:20:49,179 --> 00:20:53,199
Um, and you need to kind of,
different influencers do different

421
00:20:53,199 --> 00:20:54,399
creative things, so you wanna.

422
00:20:55,705 --> 00:20:58,135
create this initial brief of
what you think might work.

423
00:20:58,435 --> 00:21:02,425
Um, put it out there, start getting
feedback, start seeing what types of

424
00:21:02,425 --> 00:21:04,735
influencers content they're creating.

425
00:21:05,155 --> 00:21:09,235
Take those results and take those
learnings and then apply that to

426
00:21:09,295 --> 00:21:11,125
kind of your next batch, right?

427
00:21:11,455 --> 00:21:12,925
And, and refine that strategy.

428
00:21:12,925 --> 00:21:15,310
Like honestly any other
marketing initiative.

429
00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:16,310
But it is key.

430
00:21:16,435 --> 00:21:19,615
'cause social media changes
so rapidly, you to kind of

431
00:21:19,645 --> 00:21:21,055
consistently be evolving, but.

432
00:21:21,790 --> 00:21:24,760
That's basically my recommendation
for do it yourself system.

433
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,350
And if you're trying, if you have the
budget and want to use a platform like

434
00:21:29,470 --> 00:21:32,080
tapping in, there's a lot of different
influencer tools out there, whether

435
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,800
it's a database that you could tap
into that's preexisting and tools

436
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,450
to out do cold outreach yourself.

437
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,660
Whether it's a system like Stack
Influence that automates everything for

438
00:21:40,929 --> 00:21:42,820
you if you don't have the bandwidth to.

439
00:21:43,195 --> 00:21:46,074
Be manually outreaching to
every, all these people.

440
00:21:46,465 --> 00:21:50,995
Um, and now even the social platforms
have some portals to find people

441
00:21:51,135 --> 00:21:51,425
Yeah.

442
00:21:51,594 --> 00:21:52,554
interested in doing it.

443
00:21:52,554 --> 00:21:56,935
Like Amazon, if you're an Amazon seller,
has their own Amazon kind of influencer

444
00:21:56,935 --> 00:21:58,945
portal, can find good people there.

445
00:21:59,185 --> 00:22:01,975
TikTok has kind of a
little influencer platform.

446
00:22:02,334 --> 00:22:07,495
Um, so another great way is to kind
of utilize a system to filter and

447
00:22:07,495 --> 00:22:08,784
find some good people for your brand.

448
00:22:09,284 --> 00:22:09,574
Yeah.

449
00:22:09,875 --> 00:22:10,455
That's great.

450
00:22:10,705 --> 00:22:11,135
Thank you.

451
00:22:11,615 --> 00:22:12,415
I, I'm intrigued.

452
00:22:12,514 --> 00:22:13,360
Uh, um.

453
00:22:15,115 --> 00:22:19,105
As I think through my, sort of
my own journey with influencer

454
00:22:19,105 --> 00:22:23,755
marketing, so having been approached
a lot, so I get approached by

455
00:22:23,755 --> 00:22:25,255
people to sponsor the podcast.

456
00:22:25,255 --> 00:22:27,355
'cause obviously the
podcast has influence.

457
00:22:27,445 --> 00:22:27,895
Um,

458
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:28,399
Absolutely.

459
00:22:28,495 --> 00:22:34,765
uh, I get approached, I remember
how it, I. For me how it started.

460
00:22:34,765 --> 00:22:37,675
I got approached by a bike company.

461
00:22:38,425 --> 00:22:42,595
Um, I bought an electric bike,
um, from a company called Ampler.

462
00:22:42,595 --> 00:22:44,245
They were a small brand in Estonia.

463
00:22:44,245 --> 00:22:48,085
I bought it off
Kickstarter, um, years ago.

464
00:22:48,085 --> 00:22:51,655
And I, I, when I got the bike, I just
said to the guy that was in our office,

465
00:22:51,655 --> 00:22:54,745
he, the, the, one of the designers, I
just pick up a camera, let's just shoot

466
00:22:54,745 --> 00:22:57,055
a YouTube video on opening this bite.

467
00:22:57,085 --> 00:22:58,555
'cause no one knew anything about them.

468
00:22:59,590 --> 00:23:00,520
So I thought it'd be interesting.

469
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,110
I'll throw it on YouTube
and see what happens.

470
00:23:02,620 --> 00:23:06,790
Um, and I, I, I threw this thing
on YouTube and it was interesting

471
00:23:06,790 --> 00:23:09,160
'cause no one else had done a video
about this particular brand of bike.

472
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,960
So it became number one.

473
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,000
And then I did another video
and that became number two.

474
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,555
And it started to get thousands of
views and I. It didn't take long for

475
00:23:16,555 --> 00:23:19,285
that company to go, well, actually a
lot of people are watching these videos

476
00:23:19,285 --> 00:23:22,825
and they're making a buying decision
based on what you've said in the video.

477
00:23:22,825 --> 00:23:25,495
So when they did the next model
ranges, they're like, can you

478
00:23:25,495 --> 00:23:26,635
do some more videos for us?

479
00:23:26,635 --> 00:23:27,505
We'll send you the bikes.

480
00:23:27,505 --> 00:23:28,285
I'm like, sure, man.

481
00:23:28,945 --> 00:23:33,745
See, it was, it was just flattering
to be asked if I was honest with you.

482
00:23:33,985 --> 00:23:38,725
Um, and so it, it became this
really interesting sort of

483
00:23:38,725 --> 00:23:40,675
symbiotic relationship in many ways.

484
00:23:41,890 --> 00:23:47,170
But then I, I also think about some of
the companies that we have, um, with

485
00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:52,330
Econ brands, and I guess I'm thinking
about some of the people that I've

486
00:23:52,330 --> 00:23:55,090
connected with, whether it's through
Cohort, whether it's through coaching.

487
00:23:55,930 --> 00:24:01,585
It's not all I. It's not all sunshine
and rainbows with influencer marketing

488
00:24:01,615 --> 00:24:05,035
and, uh, the, the to listen to you
talk is you go worse is a no brainer.

489
00:24:05,065 --> 00:24:06,145
And it sounds all very simple.

490
00:24:06,145 --> 00:24:09,895
Let's get started and see what happens,
but where does it go wrong and how can

491
00:24:09,895 --> 00:24:12,355
we mitigate for those circumstances?

492
00:24:12,909 --> 00:24:14,439
Absolutely great questions.

493
00:24:15,729 --> 00:24:20,499
So first off, not every product
works for influencers, right?

494
00:24:20,594 --> 00:24:24,915
Um, as a simple example,
like athlete's foot cream.

495
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,239
Sells millions of dollars
every year, right?

496
00:24:28,605 --> 00:24:28,895
Yeah.

497
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,629
wanna go on social media
and talk about foot fungus?

498
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,239
Probably a few of them would
be okay with doing that.

499
00:24:34,239 --> 00:24:38,590
But like, and if you're gonna pay someone
tens of thousands of dollars, but.

500
00:24:39,175 --> 00:24:42,055
It's gonna be very hard to get
a lot of people interested in

501
00:24:42,175 --> 00:24:42,595
Mm-hmm.

502
00:24:42,655 --> 00:24:47,125
And so there's certain sensitivity to
what people are willing to actually

503
00:24:47,125 --> 00:24:48,625
promote to their family and friends.

504
00:24:49,375 --> 00:24:50,455
An electric bike, right?

505
00:24:50,455 --> 00:24:52,285
Like, fantastic, gimme that bike.

506
00:24:52,285 --> 00:24:53,395
I'll create some content for you.

507
00:24:53,395 --> 00:24:53,754
Absolutely.

508
00:24:53,754 --> 00:24:55,165
Worth, worth my while.

509
00:24:55,555 --> 00:24:59,590
Um, but other content, like especially
in the product seeding world, like

510
00:24:59,590 --> 00:25:03,055
where I'm just sending something free,
maybe it's just not enough of a value.

511
00:25:03,055 --> 00:25:05,515
Like you're like, this is a $5 product.

512
00:25:05,515 --> 00:25:06,595
Why am I going to.

513
00:25:07,044 --> 00:25:11,304
Do all of this effort to create
a nice video, et cetera, um,

514
00:25:11,395 --> 00:25:14,815
for your small product that is
not giving me much value, right?

515
00:25:14,845 --> 00:25:17,575
And you want to compensate people for
their time, it has to be worth it.

516
00:25:18,865 --> 00:25:24,865
So that's one thing to think about is like
the product that you're selling needs to

517
00:25:24,865 --> 00:25:26,274
be the right fit for the right people.

518
00:25:26,274 --> 00:25:26,575
And that

519
00:25:26,639 --> 00:25:26,930
Yeah.

520
00:25:27,085 --> 00:25:29,875
of backfire because you're just
gonna spend a huge amount of effort

521
00:25:30,115 --> 00:25:34,764
outreaching to people, and no one's
going to kind of pick up on your, um.

522
00:25:36,025 --> 00:25:39,715
or really just don't do a very good
job at promoting it because it's

523
00:25:39,715 --> 00:25:41,725
just not that much value for them.

524
00:25:42,535 --> 00:25:49,045
The second thing I would say that is
difficult is, um, again, crafting, giving

525
00:25:49,045 --> 00:25:54,775
people creative control, but giving
them direction and in and good direction

526
00:25:54,775 --> 00:25:57,745
to what you expect as quality content.

527
00:25:57,745 --> 00:25:58,105
Right.

528
00:25:58,135 --> 00:26:00,475
And that can be very subjective 'cause.

529
00:26:01,824 --> 00:26:07,195
In my days of selling products, like
sometimes we had some like, kind of not

530
00:26:07,195 --> 00:26:12,324
totally blurry, but like iPhone video
that wasn't super high quality, um,

531
00:26:12,354 --> 00:26:15,024
that ended up converting on the ads.

532
00:26:15,024 --> 00:26:15,564
We ran with

533
00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:16,419
Yep.

534
00:26:16,645 --> 00:26:21,054
times better than like the
perfectly curated like Sony film,

535
00:26:21,354 --> 00:26:23,064
like beautiful camera, right?

536
00:26:23,425 --> 00:26:26,754
Um, and so it's sometimes hard to
tell what's gonna work and what's

537
00:26:26,754 --> 00:26:30,145
not, but at the same time, that's
why it's really important to.

538
00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:32,680
Um, do those tests.

539
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:36,970
Now, if you're doing the product seeding
strategy, you're sending a bunch of

540
00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:41,500
free products and you're doing it at
scale, there is going to be content

541
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,080
you're going to get back, and this
is an expectation that you should

542
00:26:44,290 --> 00:26:46,480
understand that is not very good.

543
00:26:46,660 --> 00:26:46,990
Right?

544
00:26:46,990 --> 00:26:48,670
Like that you would never

545
00:26:48,745 --> 00:26:50,705
I am laughing because
I've seen said content.

546
00:26:51,085 --> 00:26:51,790
Uh, yes.

547
00:26:51,790 --> 00:26:52,510
Many times.

548
00:26:52,885 --> 00:26:55,870
And you're gonna like hit yourself
on the head and be like, what

549
00:26:55,870 --> 00:26:57,100
was this person even thinking?

550
00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:57,370
Right.

551
00:26:58,524 --> 00:27:02,785
I don't like we usually, it's like there's
pato distribution to everything, right?

552
00:27:02,785 --> 00:27:08,065
So like you're gonna see 20% of the
content outta the 2080 principle is

553
00:27:08,065 --> 00:27:10,345
like going to be absolutely fantastic.

554
00:27:10,345 --> 00:27:13,495
Like something you should have paid
someone if you gave 'em a free product,

555
00:27:13,495 --> 00:27:15,655
like thousands of dollars to create like,

556
00:27:15,695 --> 00:27:15,915
Hmm.

557
00:27:16,225 --> 00:27:19,314
You wouldn't have even been able to
find that person is like so creative.

558
00:27:19,615 --> 00:27:20,395
Unbelievable.

559
00:27:20,395 --> 00:27:22,645
It converts really well, it's fantastic.

560
00:27:23,125 --> 00:27:29,725
Um, another 20% is probably going to
be mediocre, like not, not very good.

561
00:27:29,965 --> 00:27:33,804
And then the, the rest of the bulk
of the 60% is gonna be average.

562
00:27:33,895 --> 00:27:37,975
And that's kind of, that is at least
in the micro nano world, like a lot

563
00:27:37,975 --> 00:27:39,625
of these people aren't professionals.

564
00:27:40,795 --> 00:27:42,595
They don't do this for a career, right.

565
00:27:42,955 --> 00:27:47,845
Um, they're doing, and this is on the
product seating side of things, right?

566
00:27:48,265 --> 00:27:52,735
Um, so content is something that you have
to kind of settle your expectations with.

567
00:27:53,095 --> 00:27:57,325
But the reality is, is going back to
like that really not that great content

568
00:27:57,325 --> 00:27:58,495
that we thought wasn't that great.

569
00:27:58,525 --> 00:28:02,785
'cause like aesthetically and visually,
it like wasn't like super popping.

570
00:28:02,995 --> 00:28:04,525
It still converted really well.

571
00:28:04,795 --> 00:28:06,355
And that's the surprising thing.

572
00:28:06,355 --> 00:28:07,645
And you'll see this on social media.

573
00:28:07,645 --> 00:28:09,355
Like you'll see these videos that like.

574
00:28:09,625 --> 00:28:13,015
Are shaky and like, but like
they're kind of exciting.

575
00:28:13,255 --> 00:28:18,145
Um, but it was like filmed by someone like
with like a flip phone and you're like,

576
00:28:18,205 --> 00:28:19,885
and it has like millions of views, you

577
00:28:20,074 --> 00:28:20,395
Yeah.

578
00:28:20,545 --> 00:28:26,185
And so is where that diversification
of risk, like spreading out a lot

579
00:28:26,185 --> 00:28:29,305
of different promotions, trying
a lot of things, is the goal

580
00:28:29,605 --> 00:28:29,965
Mm-hmm.

581
00:28:30,145 --> 00:28:32,695
upset, um, with.

582
00:28:33,220 --> 00:28:35,350
Like, oh, you got some bad stuff.

583
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:38,020
Like, this is all influencers
are horrible, right?

584
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,010
Like you gotta, you gotta let it test
out and maybe run some ads with it.

585
00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:48,130
Like, really Like see, time to
actually implement and see results.

586
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,980
Now as a last follow up thing to
that, sometimes influencer promotions

587
00:28:53,980 --> 00:28:57,700
right off the bat don't work, but
in a longer term, like one, one

588
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:02,020
promotion off, like a singular
one didn't drive any sales, right?

589
00:29:02,020 --> 00:29:06,505
I. But then to your point, like
that person sometimes maybe is like

590
00:29:06,565 --> 00:29:07,855
amazing advocate to their friend.

591
00:29:07,855 --> 00:29:10,435
They're actually using the
product that starts driving

592
00:29:10,435 --> 00:29:12,115
sales somewhat harder to track.

593
00:29:12,325 --> 00:29:15,865
But a real reality that we started to
see was like, as we started to seed out

594
00:29:15,865 --> 00:29:20,395
products, we'd get these initial results
that we'd track from the influencer

595
00:29:20,395 --> 00:29:24,085
promotions itself, but then all of
a sudden we'd start to incrementally

596
00:29:24,085 --> 00:29:25,945
see like our overall sales just.

597
00:29:26,695 --> 00:29:30,145
Jacking up without us doing
anything and like shifting

598
00:29:30,145 --> 00:29:33,385
any of our other advertising,
other marketing budgets, right?

599
00:29:33,535 --> 00:29:37,135
And there were these massive
halo effects that came from just

600
00:29:37,375 --> 00:29:37,435
Yeah.

601
00:29:37,524 --> 00:29:39,565
product into the hands of people.

602
00:29:39,985 --> 00:29:43,405
Um, I mean, some people literally
do a product seeding strategy where

603
00:29:43,435 --> 00:29:46,764
you just ship products out to people
without asking anything in return, and

604
00:29:46,764 --> 00:29:48,504
there's value to that alone, right?

605
00:29:48,895 --> 00:29:54,264
So that's something to actually really
understand and to also understand that.

606
00:29:55,524 --> 00:29:58,105
Maybe the first promotion, that
first piece of content that someone

607
00:29:58,105 --> 00:30:01,254
created didn't work out totally
well, maybe it was timing, maybe it

608
00:30:01,254 --> 00:30:02,814
was the style that they produced.

609
00:30:03,115 --> 00:30:05,245
There's a variety of
factors that can go into it.

610
00:30:05,605 --> 00:30:10,225
Um, but giving them an affiliate join,
having them join like an affiliate

611
00:30:10,225 --> 00:30:14,905
commission program, excuse me, where
they're getting 10% to keep promoting.

612
00:30:15,205 --> 00:30:18,235
Maybe they promote two, three other
times and this has happened to us.

613
00:30:18,475 --> 00:30:22,044
And then like they became
our best kind of sales.

614
00:30:22,449 --> 00:30:26,679
Influencer, like they were driving a
crazy amount of sales when their first

615
00:30:26,679 --> 00:30:28,899
one, like didn't do anything for us.

616
00:30:29,259 --> 00:30:33,459
Um, and so it's kind of like, don't
give up and, but that is things

617
00:30:33,459 --> 00:30:35,830
that can actually happen that are
on the negative side to your point.

618
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:38,469
Like, it's like you're gonna
get promotions that don't

619
00:30:38,469 --> 00:30:39,340
drive anything for you.

620
00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:42,070
And content that like
you think really sucks.

621
00:30:42,249 --> 00:30:43,060
And it's like.

622
00:30:44,965 --> 00:30:46,405
Take it with a grain of salt in

623
00:30:46,555 --> 00:30:47,425
Mm-hmm.

624
00:30:47,605 --> 00:30:52,465
gives people second chances and try to
create longer term relationships with

625
00:30:52,465 --> 00:30:56,755
people and utilize content in different
ways and test it out because sometimes

626
00:30:56,755 --> 00:31:00,565
your perceptions aren't always what
the actual mass consumer market feels.

627
00:31:01,645 --> 00:31:02,725
That's super practical.

628
00:31:02,815 --> 00:31:03,355
I love that.

629
00:31:03,355 --> 00:31:07,045
I guess I, and, and, and listening to
you talk, I'm, I'm forming the strategy

630
00:31:07,045 --> 00:31:11,515
in my head, which says, right, what
I should do is, um, product seed.

631
00:31:11,515 --> 00:31:14,845
So, you know, it's easy enough to send,
for example, our supplement business

632
00:31:14,845 --> 00:31:16,165
that you, you can send product out.

633
00:31:16,165 --> 00:31:16,735
That's not a problem.

634
00:31:16,735 --> 00:31:18,265
You know, go, go try that product.

635
00:31:18,265 --> 00:31:21,055
I. Actually don't just do that.

636
00:31:21,055 --> 00:31:23,095
Actually form a relationship
with them, which says, actually,

637
00:31:23,095 --> 00:31:25,885
here's some free product, plus,
here's a, an affiliate thing.

638
00:31:26,485 --> 00:31:28,195
These are some of our content guidelines.

639
00:31:28,345 --> 00:31:29,725
Have at it, knock yourself out.

640
00:31:29,725 --> 00:31:31,375
We just wanna be able to
use 'em as ads, right?

641
00:31:32,215 --> 00:31:34,435
I wanna retain some kind of
creative control over these.

642
00:31:34,495 --> 00:31:37,345
Not control, but I wanna be
able to use this content, right?

643
00:31:37,489 --> 00:31:38,030
exactly.

644
00:31:38,455 --> 00:31:39,475
and so.

645
00:31:41,275 --> 00:31:46,255
That, that feels very sensible to me
because the cost of the product in

646
00:31:46,255 --> 00:31:50,875
some respects and sending it out to
them is an expense, but it's not huge.

647
00:31:51,595 --> 00:31:55,585
Um, and actually you've given free
product, whether they decide to

648
00:31:55,585 --> 00:31:58,465
do something with it or not is,
is I guess, entirely up to them.

649
00:31:58,465 --> 00:31:59,755
And you want them to be motivated.

650
00:31:59,755 --> 00:32:02,185
And the ones which go, well, the
first one bomb, let's try it again.

651
00:32:02,185 --> 00:32:05,035
And it, it kind of, you know,
that one hit home and they're

652
00:32:05,035 --> 00:32:06,175
killing it on the commission.

653
00:32:06,445 --> 00:32:08,455
We had one lady who, um.

654
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,840
With our beauty business.

655
00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:20,020
She wrote a blog, a single blog post,
um, which was sent, we made at least

656
00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:23,650
60 grand a month in sales off that
one blog post that I could track.

657
00:32:23,890 --> 00:32:26,230
Um, and so we reached out to her
and said, listen, do you wanna

658
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:28,270
set up this, uh, affiliate thing?

659
00:32:28,270 --> 00:32:31,450
Man, your blog post is killing it and
you may wanna write some more blog posts.

660
00:32:31,450 --> 00:32:32,140
She goes, no, no.

661
00:32:32,140 --> 00:32:32,890
I just really like the product.

662
00:32:32,890 --> 00:32:34,360
Really like you guys just
gonna leave it alone.

663
00:32:34,990 --> 00:32:36,580
She could have made six grand a month.

664
00:32:37,554 --> 00:32:38,425
She was just like, yeah, no.

665
00:32:38,695 --> 00:32:42,084
I was like, I love you lady.

666
00:32:42,145 --> 00:32:44,574
Love you can just, it is awesome.

667
00:32:44,695 --> 00:32:48,445
And I think, um, I like the idea
of the long-term relationship.

668
00:32:48,445 --> 00:32:52,614
I guess one question that comes to
mind Will, as I listen to you talk,

669
00:32:52,614 --> 00:32:59,695
is should I start, I've got 150,000
customers on my database, um, for,

670
00:32:59,935 --> 00:33:01,405
uh, or whatever the numbers are.

671
00:33:02,064 --> 00:33:04,705
Should I email that 150,000 people
and say, Hey, we're starting

672
00:33:04,705 --> 00:33:05,544
this new affiliate scheme.

673
00:33:05,544 --> 00:33:09,175
Would anybody be interested in
joining, um, or influencer the

674
00:33:09,175 --> 00:33:10,524
scheme, or whatever we wanna call it?

675
00:33:11,064 --> 00:33:15,355
Is that a good place to start or is
it better to actually start with, say,

676
00:33:15,355 --> 00:33:18,925
a platform like yours where you are
sort of one stage removed from people?

677
00:33:19,495 --> 00:33:23,785
Honestly, I think outreaching to your
customer list is a fantastic way to start.

678
00:33:24,205 --> 00:33:25,435
Um, you don't know.

679
00:33:26,665 --> 00:33:31,495
who those customers are, what their
follower bases are, what their engagement

680
00:33:31,495 --> 00:33:33,475
levels, what their creativity levels are.

681
00:33:33,865 --> 00:33:36,264
Um, they also already have your product,

682
00:33:36,669 --> 00:33:37,060
Yeah.

683
00:33:37,165 --> 00:33:37,615
product is.

684
00:33:37,615 --> 00:33:39,294
If it's a consumable,
they've already eaten it.

685
00:33:39,294 --> 00:33:39,655
Right?

686
00:33:40,075 --> 00:33:41,815
Um, then maybe it's gone.

687
00:33:41,815 --> 00:33:45,985
But if you have a product that even
a beauty product that's consumable,

688
00:33:45,985 --> 00:33:50,575
like, or can be used over time,
maybe they still have it, right?

689
00:33:50,575 --> 00:33:52,405
And so now you don't have
to actually send out.

690
00:33:52,689 --> 00:33:54,909
A new product as an extra expense.

691
00:33:55,239 --> 00:34:00,129
Um, and there's some kind of guarantees
of, this is one issue with product seeding

692
00:34:00,129 --> 00:34:05,020
is, and you kind of briefly brought this
up, you shive a whole bunch of products

693
00:34:05,020 --> 00:34:09,189
to people with expectations of them
ideally doing something in return for

694
00:34:09,189 --> 00:34:15,279
it, and then a decent portion of them,
platforms and agencies who do this, like

695
00:34:15,279 --> 00:34:19,299
say like 30 to 50%, you send products
out, you don't get anything in return.

696
00:34:19,330 --> 00:34:19,750
Right.

697
00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:20,319
Um.

698
00:34:21,445 --> 00:34:24,865
So by reaching out to your customer
base that mitigates that, right?

699
00:34:24,865 --> 00:34:25,825
They already have the product.

700
00:34:25,825 --> 00:34:26,605
There's no loss.

701
00:34:26,605 --> 00:34:29,965
If they don't create a post, there's,
you didn't lose any inventory.

702
00:34:29,984 --> 00:34:30,404
Mm-hmm.

703
00:34:30,715 --> 00:34:35,125
Um, we actually at Stack
Influence have created a similar

704
00:34:35,125 --> 00:34:36,685
model to a customer base model.

705
00:34:36,685 --> 00:34:39,865
We actually before, in order
for an influencer to receive a

706
00:34:39,865 --> 00:34:41,155
product through Stack Influence.

707
00:34:41,545 --> 00:34:44,964
They actually have to become a
real consumer of the brand first

708
00:34:45,250 --> 00:34:45,639
Right.

709
00:34:45,745 --> 00:34:46,464
they can collaborate.

710
00:34:46,585 --> 00:34:48,444
We get them to go buy the
product with their own money.

711
00:34:48,775 --> 00:34:53,154
And then we have a cashback system where
it's like, Hey, you did the social post.

712
00:34:53,605 --> 00:34:54,565
We'll give you your money back.

713
00:34:54,565 --> 00:34:56,154
We'll give you maybe some cash rewards.

714
00:34:56,154 --> 00:34:58,225
We'll give you some affiliate
commissions after the fact.

715
00:34:58,585 --> 00:35:02,935
Um, so you kind of get monetarily
rewarded after you do the thing.

716
00:35:03,205 --> 00:35:05,875
But if they end up not promoting
for us, hey, they just.

717
00:35:06,730 --> 00:35:07,900
I made a free sale.

718
00:35:08,110 --> 00:35:09,700
They just became a real customer.

719
00:35:09,765 --> 00:35:10,055
Yeah.

720
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,080
the product anyway.

721
00:35:11,185 --> 00:35:11,475
Yeah.

722
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:12,190
harm with how.

723
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,030
Um, but it's a, it's a great way
because you're, at the end of the

724
00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:20,020
day, also the best promotions are
real auth, like authenticity is

725
00:35:20,020 --> 00:35:24,550
key and your customers are actual
authentic promoters of your product.

726
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:30,100
They, they spent their hard earned money
to buy your product, like they are a true

727
00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:34,210
representation of who should be a great
advocate for you as long as they liked it.

728
00:35:34,580 --> 00:35:34,870
Yeah.

729
00:35:35,375 --> 00:35:37,404
Um, so it's a great way to do it.

730
00:35:37,464 --> 00:35:40,194
I absolutely just, especially
to get your feet wet.

731
00:35:40,285 --> 00:35:44,575
Um, not only on a cost saving way, but
also honestly on a promotional way.

732
00:35:44,575 --> 00:35:49,225
We've, we've had a fantastic, there's
actually now, I believe a Shopify,

733
00:35:49,345 --> 00:35:51,805
um, plugin that will do that.

734
00:35:51,805 --> 00:35:56,395
It'll identify if you have Shopify,
um, identifies your customers who

735
00:35:56,395 --> 00:36:00,865
potentially could be creators and
you can tap into that, um, yourself.

736
00:36:01,015 --> 00:36:03,115
So, um, absolutely

737
00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:04,060
That's interesting.

738
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:04,510
Yeah.

739
00:36:04,510 --> 00:36:04,630
Yeah.

740
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:05,830
I. It makes lot.

741
00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:08,740
And I guess you can segment your
customer data and you can go, well, these

742
00:36:08,740 --> 00:36:10,750
guys have ordered two or three times.

743
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:12,130
So actually they like us a lot.

744
00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:15,490
So, um, and it's, I think it's
easy to say to a customer, listen,

745
00:36:15,490 --> 00:36:16,510
this is what we're starting.

746
00:36:16,510 --> 00:36:19,630
If you put out some post tags
in there, and then we will

747
00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:21,310
send you this as a result.

748
00:36:21,370 --> 00:36:21,730
Right?

749
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,120
And it's, there's that mutual element of
trust that it's gonna happen, but you're

750
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,150
not really sending out product until it
does, but, and you're sending out product

751
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:32,140
to your best customers anyway, and they
probably deserve it, so why would you not?

752
00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:32,470
Right?

753
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:32,680
So,

754
00:36:32,980 --> 00:36:33,160
Hundred

755
00:36:33,340 --> 00:36:33,760
um.

756
00:36:35,005 --> 00:36:39,865
What sort of, um, I, I appreciate this
is how long's a piece of string, but

757
00:36:39,865 --> 00:36:44,215
what sort of percentage of my marketing
budget should I be thinking about here?

758
00:36:44,215 --> 00:36:49,255
What sort of, is there a minimum sort of
amount of money I should be thinking about

759
00:36:49,255 --> 00:36:51,445
spending or is, is that too simplistic?

760
00:36:51,445 --> 00:36:51,475
I.

761
00:36:52,765 --> 00:36:52,985
No.

762
00:36:53,050 --> 00:36:53,620
Um,

763
00:36:55,750 --> 00:37:01,270
it depends on kind of what your growth
strategy is and where your, what phase of.

764
00:37:02,485 --> 00:37:05,455
Growth you are in with your
e-commerce business, right?

765
00:37:06,085 --> 00:37:09,715
When you're first starting out, new
product launches, getting the word out.

766
00:37:09,715 --> 00:37:14,395
It's like, in my opinion, one of the
best times to do influencer marketing.

767
00:37:14,875 --> 00:37:18,565
Um, because you're, you're
killing multiple birds.

768
00:37:18,565 --> 00:37:20,694
One stone, you're getting
your product into the hands of

769
00:37:20,694 --> 00:37:22,015
people when you first launch.

770
00:37:22,435 --> 00:37:24,384
That's giving you just
also product feedback.

771
00:37:24,384 --> 00:37:25,495
It's product research, right?

772
00:37:25,495 --> 00:37:28,795
Like, um, so that's insanely valuable.

773
00:37:28,795 --> 00:37:31,585
Someone's gonna tell you right off
the bat, Hey, your product sucks.

774
00:37:31,870 --> 00:37:35,590
I'm not promoting this to my audience,
and you can be like, what's wrong with it?

775
00:37:35,590 --> 00:37:35,980
Right?

776
00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:37,270
And then you can reiterate.

777
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:39,580
And so it's a great way to just
get your product in the hands

778
00:37:39,580 --> 00:37:40,450
of people to give you feedback.

779
00:37:41,380 --> 00:37:43,390
second, just some
initial awareness, right?

780
00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:46,750
Like, um, people talking
about it, some initial sales.

781
00:37:46,750 --> 00:37:48,730
It's like the hardest thing
when you're first starting off.

782
00:37:49,569 --> 00:37:52,270
Third is influencers can
dramatically actually help

783
00:37:52,270 --> 00:37:54,399
with SEO, especially in 2025.

784
00:37:54,850 --> 00:38:00,970
Um, AI agents as Google's investing more
as perplexity and open ai, um, chat,

785
00:38:00,970 --> 00:38:02,589
GPT people are using it for search.

786
00:38:02,859 --> 00:38:07,540
They're feeding in social posts,
so the post captions and the feeds,

787
00:38:07,839 --> 00:38:12,279
and it's gonna be coming even
more powerful as the years go on.

788
00:38:12,730 --> 00:38:13,120
Yeah.

789
00:38:13,424 --> 00:38:13,714
it's.

790
00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:16,540
really helps boost up your SEO,

791
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:17,290
Yeah.

792
00:38:17,410 --> 00:38:21,040
and if you're doing like blog post
influencer promotions, which is kind

793
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,510
of actually how a lot of the online
influencer stuff started, um, but it's

794
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:27,280
just becoming more and more impactful now.

795
00:38:29,290 --> 00:38:33,610
Fourth is you're building up a
initial network of advocates that

796
00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:36,340
can consistently promote your
product for those commissions.

797
00:38:36,340 --> 00:38:39,610
In the long run, the quicker and
the longer you build that up, the

798
00:38:39,610 --> 00:38:42,580
larger you build it up, the better
and more successful you're gonna be.

799
00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:45,460
finally, is the content
that you produce, right?

800
00:38:45,460 --> 00:38:49,600
Like when you first start off I, when
I did a photo shoot, et cetera, but

801
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,390
getting actually what the industry
calls user generated content or

802
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:55,900
UGC, um, it converts better on ads.

803
00:38:56,215 --> 00:39:00,235
People wanna see, they call social
proof on a website, like real customers

804
00:39:00,235 --> 00:39:02,395
using the product, actual feedback.

805
00:39:02,755 --> 00:39:07,255
So building up, doing influencers,
like it's, it's a brand

806
00:39:07,255 --> 00:39:08,455
building exercise as well.

807
00:39:08,515 --> 00:39:11,215
And so getting a whole bunch of
content of real people using it.

808
00:39:12,084 --> 00:39:15,415
Using that for social media,
using that for online ads, using

809
00:39:15,415 --> 00:39:17,035
that to strengthen your website.

810
00:39:17,365 --> 00:39:18,504
All really, really valuable.

811
00:39:18,504 --> 00:39:18,834
Right?

812
00:39:19,674 --> 00:39:21,745
Um, and more impactful
when you first launch.

813
00:39:21,774 --> 00:39:25,254
'cause that's kind of the hardest thing
to get, whether you're selling on your

814
00:39:25,254 --> 00:39:28,825
website, whether you're selling on Amazon,
like getting visibility or Walmart.

815
00:39:29,125 --> 00:39:34,524
Um, it's hard to kind of kickstart and get
a punch and influencer fantastic for that.

816
00:39:34,944 --> 00:39:38,424
Now I would like.

817
00:39:38,845 --> 00:39:43,345
If I had $10,000 to spend, let's say,
on a marketing budget, which some

818
00:39:43,345 --> 00:39:45,805
people don't even have that amount
of money when you're first starting,

819
00:39:45,805 --> 00:39:47,695
but nowadays things are competitive.

820
00:39:47,695 --> 00:39:49,255
So you gotta have something to spend.

821
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:50,169
Yeah.

822
00:39:50,905 --> 00:39:54,295
I'd at least spend 50% of that
on influencers to start off.

823
00:39:54,415 --> 00:40:00,415
Now, as you scale up, you're going to,
um, figure out what channels work for

824
00:40:00,415 --> 00:40:05,665
you, whether it's social ad channels,
search channels, marketplace advertising.

825
00:40:05,665 --> 00:40:06,625
If you're on Amazon.

826
00:40:06,984 --> 00:40:12,564
Um, you're gonna wanna obviously do
cac, LTV ratio analysis of like figuring

827
00:40:12,564 --> 00:40:16,134
out exactly how, what channels are
bringing you the best bang for your buck.

828
00:40:16,134 --> 00:40:18,774
But I think influencers always
should be part of the strategy.

829
00:40:18,955 --> 00:40:24,055
I'm a bit biased here, but being an
eCommerce seller myself, um, we always

830
00:40:24,055 --> 00:40:27,984
spend at least 30% of our budget on
influencers and sometimes up to 75%.

831
00:40:28,475 --> 00:40:28,635
Yeah.

832
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,980
at certain times, just because of
the power and the multi multitude

833
00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:34,900
of value it actually provided us.

834
00:40:35,050 --> 00:40:39,970
Um, Unilever just came out this year
an announcement that they're in moving

835
00:40:40,060 --> 00:40:43,180
50% of their entire advertising and
marketing budget to influencers.

836
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:49,120
So one of the largest CPG companies in
the world, um, is announcing that play.

837
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,120
So obviously something's
working in, in the ecosystem.

838
00:40:53,605 --> 00:40:56,155
Yeah, I Do you know
Jay from Bold Commerce?

839
00:40:56,155 --> 00:40:58,135
Have you come across Jay
Smears from Bold Commerce?

840
00:40:58,435 --> 00:41:00,055
Yeah, I believe so.

841
00:41:00,370 --> 00:41:01,870
Jay's a really interesting guy.

842
00:41:01,870 --> 00:41:02,589
I really like Jay.

843
00:41:02,589 --> 00:41:05,589
I had, um, breakfast with
him last year at Subs Summit.

844
00:41:05,890 --> 00:41:08,830
Um, I'm not sure when this podcast
is coming out, but if it's coming

845
00:41:08,830 --> 00:41:11,020
out before subs, Sumit and you're
gonna be there, let me know.

846
00:41:11,049 --> 00:41:13,060
'cause I'd quite frankly like to meet you.

847
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,959
Um, but, uh, I, I, subs, Sumit, and
I, and we were chatting away with Jay

848
00:41:16,959 --> 00:41:19,104
and I said, Jay, listen, if you were
gonna start, I love this question.

849
00:41:19,104 --> 00:41:21,430
I said, if you were gonna start a
beauty brand today, how would you do it?

850
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:25,180
And he looked at me and he said, I'd
make it a members only site and I'd

851
00:41:25,180 --> 00:41:26,560
do nothing but influence marketing.

852
00:41:27,925 --> 00:41:28,285
It was that.

853
00:41:28,340 --> 00:41:29,062
It was, it was, it was.

854
00:41:30,325 --> 00:41:32,305
And that conversation lasted
two hours, by the way.

855
00:41:32,305 --> 00:41:35,095
But it was just a really great, um,

856
00:41:37,315 --> 00:41:40,225
approach that he had that actually,
no, I'll just do influence

857
00:41:40,225 --> 00:41:41,305
marketing, forget everything else.

858
00:41:41,305 --> 00:41:42,235
Do influence marketing.

859
00:41:42,235 --> 00:41:43,255
Make it a member's only site.

860
00:41:43,255 --> 00:41:43,825
What's wrong with you?

861
00:41:43,915 --> 00:41:45,385
Why, why are we having this conversation?

862
00:41:45,625 --> 00:41:47,425
It's, is this really interesting?

863
00:41:47,905 --> 00:41:52,975
And so I, I I, I can see why it's
fast becoming, especially because

864
00:41:52,975 --> 00:41:54,805
Facebook's be a, you know, the.

865
00:41:55,540 --> 00:41:57,460
I was having a conversation
with someone today, Matt.

866
00:41:57,460 --> 00:42:01,090
My, um, acquisition costs have
doubled in the last month on Facebook.

867
00:42:01,090 --> 00:42:02,860
Nothing else has changed
what's going on and.

868
00:42:03,610 --> 00:42:07,420
Google AdWords is becoming more
and more problematic in many ways.

869
00:42:07,420 --> 00:42:11,320
And, um, TikTok Shop is great if you're
a certain type of product and you can

870
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,610
discount it and you can get on it,
but it's, it's not as straightforward

871
00:42:15,610 --> 00:42:17,020
as maybe we would like it to be.

872
00:42:17,020 --> 00:42:21,730
But at the same time, influencer
marketing, it is not really, like you

873
00:42:21,730 --> 00:42:25,120
say, it's not going anywhere because it's
been around what, for thousands of years.

874
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,190
We, you know, people tell stories
to each other, don't they?

875
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:30,070
So, um, get on it.

876
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:30,760
Get on it.

877
00:42:31,180 --> 00:42:31,750
Well, listen,

878
00:42:31,870 --> 00:42:32,140
You don't

879
00:42:32,170 --> 00:42:32,410
we've.

880
00:42:32,620 --> 00:42:34,600
any budget to do it is
the last thing, right?

881
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:35,020
Like if

882
00:42:35,135 --> 00:42:35,425
Yeah.

883
00:42:36,070 --> 00:42:37,330
you can ship free product out.

884
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,820
You have to put in some
legwork to do that.

885
00:42:39,820 --> 00:42:44,620
But like going back to the budget side,
like yes, to scale you need some money,

886
00:42:44,625 --> 00:42:45,045
Mm-hmm.

887
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:47,920
like if you're just starting out and
you want to put in some manual effort,

888
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,400
like you better have product when
you're first selling the product, start

889
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,630
shipping some free product out and

890
00:42:52,665 --> 00:42:52,955
Yeah.

891
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:53,380
Yeah.

892
00:42:53,455 --> 00:42:57,025
can literally start getting
sales promotions, brand

893
00:42:57,025 --> 00:42:58,915
building with zero marketing,

894
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:00,040
Yeah.

895
00:43:00,174 --> 00:43:01,045
zero money in the bank.

896
00:43:01,045 --> 00:43:01,194
So.

897
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:03,850
So true, so true.

898
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:04,900
Um.

899
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,970
Question for me, will I, I, this is where
I, ladies and gentlemen, if you're new to

900
00:43:09,970 --> 00:43:12,040
the show, I ask my guest for a question.

901
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:13,750
Uh, they give me that question.

902
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:15,640
I will answer that
question over on LinkedIn.

903
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,160
Now, if you've been following me a
little while, you'll go, Matt, there

904
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,830
are a few questions you've not actually
answered on LinkedIn now, and I'll put

905
00:43:20,830 --> 00:43:24,910
my hand up and say, yes, I've been a
little bit slack on remiss on this, but

906
00:43:24,940 --> 00:43:29,500
alas, the strategy and mechanism is now
in place for me to do this on a regular

907
00:43:29,500 --> 00:43:30,940
basis, which is a wonderful thing.

908
00:43:31,420 --> 00:43:34,930
Um, so Will, what's your question for me?

909
00:43:36,490 --> 00:43:39,460
Well, great question to me.

910
00:43:39,550 --> 00:43:46,690
Um, inspired you to become an
eCommerce Podcast influencer yourself?

911
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:49,899
Oh, an eCommerce Podcast influencer.

912
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:51,009
I love that.

913
00:43:51,249 --> 00:43:52,089
EPI.

914
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,649
Why are you an EPI Matthew?

915
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,564
Uh, that's a great question If you
wanna know my answer to that question.

916
00:43:57,535 --> 00:44:00,535
Yeah, if you wanna, yes, absolutely.

917
00:44:00,775 --> 00:44:02,904
If you wanna know my answer
that question, come follow me

918
00:44:02,904 --> 00:44:04,525
on LinkedIn at Matt Edmundson.

919
00:44:04,795 --> 00:44:07,194
Well, listen, I great conversation, man.

920
00:44:07,285 --> 00:44:09,145
Um, how do people reach you?

921
00:44:09,145 --> 00:44:10,975
How do they connect with
you if they wanna do that?

922
00:44:11,754 --> 00:44:12,384
Absolutely.

923
00:44:12,475 --> 00:44:14,725
Um, feel free to reach out directly to me.

924
00:44:14,725 --> 00:44:17,134
My email is william@stackinfluence.com.

925
00:44:17,365 --> 00:44:20,665
Happy to give advice overall
if you're just getting started

926
00:44:20,665 --> 00:44:21,774
or wanna start scaling up.

927
00:44:21,774 --> 00:44:22,555
Influencer marketing.

928
00:44:23,019 --> 00:44:27,580
And if you're interested in a platform
that helps you automate, and also

929
00:44:27,729 --> 00:44:30,640
with that scaling of the micro
influencers and product seating,

930
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,950
um, check out stackinfluence.com.

931
00:44:33,009 --> 00:44:33,850
That's my company.

932
00:44:34,269 --> 00:44:37,450
Um, you can go to the website,
you can quickly sign up right

933
00:44:37,450 --> 00:44:38,529
at the top right corner.

934
00:44:38,859 --> 00:44:42,490
Um, find us on every single social
platform at Stack Influence.

935
00:44:43,515 --> 00:44:44,709
and yeah, that's basically it.

936
00:44:45,205 --> 00:44:45,865
Fantastic.

937
00:44:45,865 --> 00:44:50,155
We will of course, link to that
information in the show notes,

938
00:44:50,155 --> 00:44:54,145
which you can get along for
free with all kinds of insights.

939
00:44:54,145 --> 00:44:57,175
We, uh, with our newsletter,
we started to really, uh, we're

940
00:44:57,175 --> 00:44:58,675
just about to launch version.

941
00:44:58,980 --> 00:45:00,210
2.0 I suppose.

942
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,330
I dunno, it's probably more like
version 10.0, but it, we are

943
00:45:03,330 --> 00:45:06,390
gonna launch a new version of our
newsletter in the coming weeks.

944
00:45:06,660 --> 00:45:09,930
We are really putting some effort
into this and making, uh, adding some

945
00:45:09,930 --> 00:45:11,520
real value to the whole podcast thing.

946
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,190
So that is available for free as
well at ecommerce-podcast.net.

947
00:45:15,210 --> 00:45:18,210
It will contain all of the links
to, well as does the website

948
00:45:18,210 --> 00:45:21,840
ecommerce-podcast.net, as does the
show notes, which, let's be real.

949
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,240
You can get the show notes just
by scrolling down on your podcast

950
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:25,440
app, so you can do that as well.

951
00:45:25,915 --> 00:45:29,245
Uh, well listen, uh, it's been great
having you on the show, man, and thank you

952
00:45:29,245 --> 00:45:31,765
for reviving my interest in said topic.

953
00:45:32,245 --> 00:45:35,545
Uh, I've got lots of notes, which is
always a beautiful thing, and I will

954
00:45:35,545 --> 00:45:38,095
be talking to our marketing department.

955
00:45:39,055 --> 00:45:40,915
Well, not tomorrow
'cause it's good Friday.

956
00:45:42,865 --> 00:45:46,195
And so we are, we are, we're off now
until Tuesday, which is a wonderful thing.

957
00:45:46,585 --> 00:45:49,165
Uh, but next week certainly
we'll be talking to them.

958
00:45:49,285 --> 00:45:51,175
Um, and that, uh, happy
Easter to everybody.

959
00:45:51,175 --> 00:45:54,175
By the way, if you are listening to
this and I appreciate it's you by the

960
00:45:54,175 --> 00:45:56,935
time you listen to this, it, Easter
will have gone long gone, but I hope

961
00:45:56,935 --> 00:45:58,135
you didn't get too fat and chocolate.

962
00:45:58,855 --> 00:46:00,145
Um, but happy Easter.

963
00:46:00,475 --> 00:46:01,045
Uh.

964
00:46:01,550 --> 00:46:03,980
Let's do the saving the best till last.

965
00:46:03,980 --> 00:46:06,800
So if you've made it this far and
you've stayed with us, uh, wonderful

966
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,650
listeners, then uh, I like to do
this thing at the end of the show

967
00:46:09,650 --> 00:46:12,560
called Saving the Best Till Last.

968
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:18,080
And this is where I say to my amazing
guests, like, will, will the top tip that

969
00:46:18,140 --> 00:46:22,040
you know the absolute best of the best
of the best of the information that you

970
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:27,470
can give us on this whole topic, uh, of
influencer marketing For the listeners

971
00:46:27,470 --> 00:46:29,300
that stayed till the end, the faithful.

972
00:46:29,860 --> 00:46:34,060
The righteous, the amazing,
uh, people that are still here.

973
00:46:34,420 --> 00:46:37,505
What, what's, um, what's the two
minute top tip you'd love to share?

974
00:46:38,785 --> 00:46:44,875
Top tip, um, is influencers
are one of the best tactics for

975
00:46:44,905 --> 00:46:46,555
e-commerce marketplace growth.

976
00:46:47,820 --> 00:46:48,985
and the reason behind it.

977
00:46:48,985 --> 00:46:52,195
So think Amazon, Walmart, target, um.

978
00:46:52,779 --> 00:46:55,149
All of those marketplaces are
search engines, and they're

979
00:46:55,149 --> 00:46:56,080
more competitive than ever.

980
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,180
More than 3000 people
join Amazon every single

981
00:46:58,315 --> 00:46:58,735
Mm-hmm.

982
00:46:58,839 --> 00:47:03,189
Um, and when, those of you who
search on Amazon and buy products on

983
00:47:03,189 --> 00:47:08,470
Amazon, the few of you, um, when you
search for something, 75% of people

984
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:09,730
don't go past the first page, right?

985
00:47:09,730 --> 00:47:12,879
You got, I think it's like 45
listings on the first page, right?

986
00:47:14,425 --> 00:47:19,945
With all these sellers on there, and very
limited attention to only a few different

987
00:47:20,154 --> 00:47:22,195
listings for any given search topic.

988
00:47:22,855 --> 00:47:25,465
Um, it's very hard to break through.

989
00:47:25,525 --> 00:47:27,115
You could say the noise, right?

990
00:47:27,235 --> 00:47:31,705
When you first launch a product you're
on maybe page a thousand, right?

991
00:47:31,705 --> 00:47:33,415
Maybe more depending on what the topic is.

992
00:47:34,645 --> 00:47:39,085
Why influencers are fantastic for
this, and this is my best tip, is that.

993
00:47:39,490 --> 00:47:44,230
When you first launch on a platform like
Amazon, Amazon needs to understand data.

994
00:47:44,259 --> 00:47:45,970
They have, they call it
the Cold Start problem.

995
00:47:46,419 --> 00:47:48,310
Um, they don't know where to place you.

996
00:47:48,339 --> 00:47:51,310
It's a risk for them to put you on
page one because of your product Sucks.

997
00:47:52,090 --> 00:47:55,090
gonna lose out on a huge amount of sales.

998
00:47:55,090 --> 00:47:56,500
It's like their shelf space, right?

999
00:47:56,650 --> 00:47:57,790
You're just taking up space.

1000
00:47:58,180 --> 00:48:01,240
But if your product's fantastic
and they're not putting you

1001
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,790
up there, maybe you could be
the best selling product ever.

1002
00:48:03,970 --> 00:48:06,730
And now they're making a huge
amount more commission from you.

1003
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,830
And so the only way for Amazon, Amazon
tests you when you first launch.

1004
00:48:12,535 --> 00:48:14,154
But the testing takes a long time.

1005
00:48:14,424 --> 00:48:17,095
Now, if you can give Amazon
the data it needs to say, Hey,

1006
00:48:17,095 --> 00:48:18,355
this product is fantastic.

1007
00:48:18,714 --> 00:48:20,185
Amazon's gonna push you right up.

1008
00:48:20,515 --> 00:48:22,944
And influencers are a
fantastic way to do that.

1009
00:48:23,125 --> 00:48:26,875
By driving external traffic sales
that's trusted and high converting.

1010
00:48:27,325 --> 00:48:31,464
It basically gives the Amazon algorithm
the data it needs to say, Hey, this

1011
00:48:31,464 --> 00:48:32,935
product deserves to be at the top.

1012
00:48:33,384 --> 00:48:37,794
And we've seen listings that have
implemented this strategy like 13 XRO.

1013
00:48:37,794 --> 00:48:40,044
I like went from doing
a hundred sales a month.

1014
00:48:40,415 --> 00:48:44,794
To like 1500 sales in like
literally a month timeframe.

1015
00:48:45,725 --> 00:48:50,464
and then they, if they were sticky,
if they had a good product, once

1016
00:48:50,464 --> 00:48:53,464
they maintained, got to that
growth standpoint and started

1017
00:48:53,464 --> 00:48:56,495
actually converting onto organic
consumers, those sales didn't stop.

1018
00:48:56,944 --> 00:49:01,444
So it became this like, Hey, I just
activated like a hundred influencers.

1019
00:49:02,365 --> 00:49:06,685
Drove up a whole bunch of sales, um,
didn't do any more influencer marketing.

1020
00:49:06,984 --> 00:49:09,984
I 13 x by growth, and my sales
haven't stopped because now I have

1021
00:49:09,984 --> 00:49:11,185
the visibility within the marketplace.

1022
00:49:11,185 --> 00:49:12,745
I broke through, you know what I mean?

1023
00:49:12,984 --> 00:49:14,035
And I was high converted.

1024
00:49:14,515 --> 00:49:16,194
So that's my last tidbit.

1025
00:49:16,194 --> 00:49:19,615
For those of you who are listening,
who are selling on an e-commerce

1026
00:49:19,615 --> 00:49:23,964
marketplace like Amazon or Walmart,
or plan to, influencer marketing's

1027
00:49:23,964 --> 00:49:25,105
a fantastic strategy for it.

1028
00:49:25,735 --> 00:49:26,425
Fantastic.

1029
00:49:27,625 --> 00:49:29,125
Well, thank you so much, man.

1030
00:49:29,485 --> 00:49:34,225
Uh, loved every part of the conversation
and, um, if you, like I say, go check

1031
00:49:34,225 --> 00:49:37,134
out Stack influence, but, um, it's
been an absolute pleasure, my friend.

1032
00:49:37,134 --> 00:49:37,915
Thank you so much.

1033
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:39,279
My pleasure.

1034
00:49:39,285 --> 00:49:40,115
Thanks for having me on, Matt.

1035
00:49:40,585 --> 00:49:41,425
Well, there you go.

1036
00:49:41,425 --> 00:49:42,115
Ladies and gentlemen.

1037
00:49:42,115 --> 00:49:44,035
Thanks to Will again
for coming on the show.

1038
00:49:44,035 --> 00:49:46,134
Oh, I can do this thing
Will, where you'll like this.

1039
00:49:46,195 --> 00:49:47,485
Uh, let me watch it.

1040
00:49:47,904 --> 00:49:48,985
Oh no, that's the wrong one.

1041
00:49:49,105 --> 00:49:51,025
Uh, where's, where's it gone?

1042
00:49:52,915 --> 00:49:53,755
Where's it gone?

1043
00:49:54,055 --> 00:49:55,165
Oh, it's gone off my system.

1044
00:49:55,675 --> 00:49:56,035
Oh, no.

1045
00:49:57,220 --> 00:49:57,819
There it is.

1046
00:49:58,299 --> 00:49:58,870
There we go.

1047
00:49:59,770 --> 00:50:02,950
Sorry about, it wasn't even
really worth waiting for, was it?

1048
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:07,029
I just, my system is all kind of
messed up, isn't it, at the moment.

1049
00:50:07,029 --> 00:50:09,279
But, um, well, thank
you for coming on, man.

1050
00:50:09,310 --> 00:50:10,959
Uh, it's been an absolute tree.

1051
00:50:10,959 --> 00:50:11,740
It really has.

1052
00:50:12,189 --> 00:50:13,629
Uh, but that's it from me.

1053
00:50:13,629 --> 00:50:14,290
That's it from me.

1054
00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:15,819
Thank you so much for joining us.

1055
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:18,370
Have a fantastic week
wherever you are in the world.

1056
00:50:18,370 --> 00:50:19,540
I will see you next time.

1057
00:50:19,810 --> 00:50:20,290
Bye for now.