This is an AI transcription, apologies for any typos.

I called out Hey, Kate, you won't believe what an amazing day I've had. And she doesn't reply. I call her again, Kate. Kate, where are you? The door to our living room was ajar.

David B Horne is the author of six business books and one of entrepreneur of the year. But before all of that, let's go back to the 80s, where he and his wife are taking the leap to move from Canada to Switzerland. They've never been happier. or so he thought.

So we drove home from IKEA and brought in all of our furniture and set it up probably spent a day you know what it's like with flat pack furniture. All of a sudden, there we were in our new apartment with brand new furniture that was ours. And this was the first time we had chosen everything rather than getting, you know, hand me downs or borrowed stuff from friends and family. And it was so exciting. We were in a new place. And I remember Kate, just, once we got all the furniture set up, she turned to me, she said, I am so happy here. I love our flat. I love where we're living. I'm just so excited for the future. As time went on, we were just having a fabulous time. We used to go for this wonderful walk along the Limmat River in Zurich every evening. And it was just a magical time. So I came home from work one day, and I had had the most amazing day I had just finished a little project with a small client. Stefan was his name. And he was the finance director of a graphic design technology company. So we finished this work. And he said, Well, let's go out for lunch. And I thought, you know, we're just gonna go out and have some basic lunch. So he takes me to this restaurant that's on the 25th floor of a building with incredible views and the food and everything was just incredible. He ordered a bottle of red burgundy wine, and I didn't know much about wine in those days. And that was one of the most delicious wines I have ever tasted in my life. And just the combination of being out for a meal with a client. Incredible Food, incredible wine, amazing views of the city. I was in seventh heaven. It was incredible. As I was walking home from work, I mean, I was almost skipping, I was so excited. You know, I wanted to tell Kate all about this incredible day that I'd had with this new client. So I got to our building and climbed up the stairs and got to our front door. And I called out Hey, Kate, you won't believe what an amazing day I've had. And she doesn't reply. I call it again, Kate. Kate, where are you? The door to our living room was a jar. And as I came into the room and looked around, my eyes went up. And I took in the sight of Kate, standing on a stepladder, washing the ceiling in an apartment. That was pretty much spotless, we'd only recently moved into it and it had been professionally cleaned. And I said to her, Kate, my love. What are you doing? And there was a moment of pause from her. And then she replied, I'm so lonely. I'm so bored. I had nothing else to do but wash the ceiling. And it was completely counter to everything that I had thought we had been experiencing in our new life together in Zurich.

So David, you're is this is the 80s this is 1987, the year I was born, you realise from the story from the relocation to Zurich, you've got this exciting life ahead of you with you and your partner. You were from where I'm standing anyway, you're in this excitement phase of your career, your partner is there to support you. Do you think you fell into that trap of thinking it was all about you and your goals and your dreams? And maybe hers kind of fell to the wayside a little bit?

Oh, unquestionably, unquestionably, you know, I mean, I was, I was 25 years old, I was you know, I had just achieved a major kind of life goal and, you know, a major step forward in my career and, and, you know, gung ho, and let's do this, and we're off to Switzerland, and everything's gonna be amazing. And, you know, she was supportive throughout the process. She was supportive of me. I mean, a year prior to this. I had gone to qualify, and I'd actually failed my exams and my wife supported me through that. And then a year later, I passed the exams and we had this opportunity to move and yeah, I was, I was totally focused on what was me and, and it wasn't until that moment that I really came to realise and understand that it isn't about me, it's about us and you know, we're in a long term relationship. And it has to be something that works for both of us because otherwise, you know, one of the parties in the relationship is gonna is gonna suffer and is going to get angry and you know, these are the kinds of things that lead to relationships breaking up. And

that's the beautiful thing about a loving relationship, right that she was there to support you when you failed your exam. Mmm. And now, she was struggling with lack of purpose, lack of mission motivation, wondering what the hell do I do in this new city? My my husband of four years is in this brand new career. I'm at home with no television. No way of contacting my family back home in Canada, nothing to do. It's now time for him to support me. And you did that?

Yeah, yeah. Because of course, this was pre internet pre email, all of that we didn't even have a telephone yet in our flat. So if she wanted to talk to her family, she had to walk down to the local train station where there was a payphone. Yeah, no, it was, it was a, it was a very powerful experience to go through. And, and, you know, a really important lesson in life. And I, I attribute a lot of the success of our marriage over the last 40 years to coming to that realisation. And, you know, and I'm just so grateful that, that she supported me, and that I realised in that moment of her knee that I had to support her.

That's the beauty of a relationship like that with every, like, you say, your wife knows you so well, that they come up with all sorts of creative solutions that you might not have even thought of, or come at it from a different angle.

Exactly, exactly. And, and she's naturally a very empathic person, she, she, she can, she and I can go to a party and walk into a room, and I'll kind of look around and think, Okay, there's action over here, there's action over here. And she'll look at the room, and she'll think that person is suffering, and that person's got a problem. And, and yeah, so, you know, the two of us were, were kind of like, you know, polar opposites. But I think I think, you know, opposites attract, as they say, and, and that skill of hers to, to read and understand how people are feeling is, is such a gift. And, and I've also learned when I'm getting into a new business relationship with a with a partner, or a client or whatever, that she'll pick up warning signs that I don't even see. And, you know, she'll say, be careful with this one, just just pay attention to this. And she'll have picked that up, you know, and I'm kind of excited because it's a new, a new relationship, whether it's a client or someone I'm partnering with, or whatever. And she'll just say, just be careful. And I've learned to trust that,

well, I've had a business for over 10 years, and I've read lots of different business books. And one thing I come back to time and time again, in what these books say is psychology. And people reading skills are one of the most important things you should focus on. And even if, hypothetically speaking, your wife didn't necessarily understand anything about business, the fact that she's got both people reading skills helps you and your business tremendously. It feels like this very sort of this very sort of synergistic sort of feel to it, the sort of two plus two equals five, that you, you and her kind of feed off each other. Right? If you

go back to sort of the the next stage of what happened after the hug when she was still on the ladder. I said, Well, let's let's go for a walk. So we walked into the old town of zero, and it's a beautiful, you know, mediaeval town buildings dating back to sort of the 13th and 14th centuries and a river running through it. And we walked up and down the river and talk through stuff and ended up sitting on a bench, a little wooden bench next to a little wooden pedestrian bridge across across the Limmat River. And we just sat there and talked through things in a lot of detail and worked out. Okay, what can we do? How can we, how can we figure this out, and kind of came up with a plan. And just, again, I just I sat there and I just leaned over and I just gave her the biggest hug. And I just wanted her to know how much I loved her. And we go back, we go back to Zurich regularly for just a long weekend. It's an easy hot from London. And every time we go back, we go back to that bench by that wooden bridge on the river. And we remember that moment. And then we look at, you know how our lives have evolved and developed. And for me, that was really a seminal moment in our relationship where, where I had to dig really, really deep. And I had to let go of all of my excitement and all of my enthusiasm and all of that stuff to help her get through what was probably one of the darkest moments in her life.

Would you say that was the biggest challenge she's ever had? Probably yes.

The other one would be when her parents split up. Which was a few years later, when our when our first daughter was born, her parents split up and that was really hard for her but again, having been through that experience on the bridge, I knew what I had to do to help her get through that. And we had a young baby at the time so you know She was able to focus her attention on that. But I again, I knew that I just I had to support her and help her through what was a very difficult time.

Where do you think you would have been if you'd not supported her in your relationship? I

don't think we'd be together today. I really do. I think I think I think she probably would have said, Right, I'm done. I'm flying back to Vancouver. You stay in Switzerland, but I'm going.

And that's the thing is, isn't it? Because you're following this career. And the excitement that you have is perhaps to a degree, what you can get from that career in order to fund your family's lifestyle and, and being on that journey with your wife would feel amazing. But if you don't actually have anyone to share that with, you could have thought to yourself, well, what's the point? Exactly?

Because then it just becomes a selfish exercise. And, yeah, no, I would. I mean, I, it's funny, I, when I started my own business, I sat down and set out some life goals and the one overriding life goal I have. So we got married when I was 21. And the one overriding life goal I have. Yeah, she was 20. I was 21. And we met when we were 17. So but the one overriding life goal that I have is that I want to live to be 101 and celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary. And we're now halfway there.

Congratulations, how things have changed, right? How many people at 21 years old get married nowadays?

Not many, not many. Our older daughter got married at 28. Our younger daughter is getting married next year, she'll be 31. And, you know, most of their friends were getting married in their late 20s or early 30s or aren't even married yet. So, ya know, I I'm so lucky. I you know, I met the right girl when I was 17. And I'm, I'm grateful.

Yeah, I mean, I'm 36 I'm not married. And, you know, that's the thing is that times have changed so much since the 80s. And even the 90s, right, people are going into their 40s. And, and not being married, and some people are deciding not to marry at all, not necessarily just about the age that they're at. But for you, and Kate to have been together for four years, and then get married is nowadays still quite a similar kind of period of time, three or four years, and then you get married. So you know that person? decently well, right?

I mean, because of our age, we hadn't lived together. I mean, we'd occasionally you know, where if her parents went away, I'd go and sleep over at her house, or if my parents went away, and she'd come and sleep at night, but we hadn't lived together for any kind of extended time. Whereas, you know, both of my daughters have have been in long term relationships, living together with their partners, so they knew what it was like to live together. And I, I mean, for us at the time, given our age, you know, we were still in school and university and stuff. So, so that made sense. But I think I think for people nowadays, I think I think living you know, living with someone for a while before you make the commitment of marriage is actually a good thing. Really

important. Yeah, really important. In my previous relationship, we were seeing each other two or three times a week, and then we moved in together. But before you move in together, it's this case of well, the only extended period of time we have together is when we go on holiday going to you know, we went on lots of European weekend breaks and, and but the most would have been probably Yeah, probably the most would have been about four days. It was we didn't do any long haul flights together before we moved in together and then moving in, you know, someone on a much deeper level and you you learn about all their idiosyncrasies, and you start to realise the certain things that you do that upset the other person and vice versa.

Yep, definitely. People ask me, you know, what, what, what's the biggest thing you've learned from being married to Kate all these years is to be much more caring about other people. You know, I grew up in a in a family, I was the youngest of four kids, there's 10 years different. So four years old, or eight years old, or 10 years older. And so, you know, being the youngest to get hurt, I just had to be loud. And and just kind of bulldoze my way through. And I remember in high school, one of my teachers described me as being bumptious and even sent me to the school library to write out the definition of the word bumptious, 100 times. So I looked it up in about five different dictionaries and found the shortest definition, which was aggressively self assertive, and I wasn't I was I was a bumptious little shit when I was a kid. And being with Kate, I've learned to tone that down and to be much more receptive to others. You know, sure, I'm still I'm still self interested, I think every human being should be self interested. But I'm no longer aggressively self interested. And I'm much more aware of making sure you know, in a business setting or in a family setting, that I'm bringing everyone into the conversation. And you know, it's not just about me. And I'm so grateful to Kate for just imparting that wisdom upon me,

when we can teach you so many amazing things, right. And what I found is, it's difficult because I felt my ego getting bruised by certain comments made and you know, they, they're their comments made with loving intentions towards me. But I don't necessarily want to hear them because it feels like an attack on me and my ego. And my ego wants this self preservation to continue in the protection and don't go there at all. But there's no growth is there if you're not able to take that in?

Exactly, exactly. No, if you end up being you know, ending up being just, you know, controlled by your ego is it's a it's a, it's a dangerous place, you know, that the ego has its role in, you know, moving you forward and doing things but, but if all you're ever driven with by your ego, you tend to become a not very pleasant person.

Was there anything that's Kate said to you over the years that's attacked your ego. And you have had to kind of sit back and go, This annoyed me, this has frustrated me, but actually, she's right.

Yep. Yep. On on more than one occasion, again, you know, early in our relationship. It was, it was just like things like, you know, I used to go over to her family house a lot and, you know, be there for dinners and things like that. And I would just dominate the conversation. Her family, so she's originally from the UK, her parents are English. And then they emigrated to Canada when she was three. So we met out there but but but her family was was very close knit. There's three kids, only three years apart. And they were very close, and they were soft spoken and all of that. And then you know, this, this brash, bumptious guy kind of bursts onto the scene and just sort of takes over the conversation. And I remember, we've been, it was maybe the third or fourth time I'd been around her parents for dinner. And she said, you know, can you just stop dominating the conversation? And I said, Well, what do you mean? You guys don't talk? So I talk? And she says, yeah, we'll just let other people talk. And it was like, Oh, wow. Because all my life. If I wanted to be heard, I had to talk and I had to talk loud. And I just, and you know how it is, when you're a kid growing up, you assume that your reality is everyone's reality, until you're put into someone else's reality. And then you have to, and again, because I didn't have that awareness of reading the room. I, when when there was a pause in the conversation that over over a family dinner, I mean, I just barged in and express whatever opinion I wanted.

David's story actually ties in with something I've been thinking about recently, around the idea of people being self absorbed. Because as we all know, some people we come across in life can be that way, the more self absorbed we are, can result in having less empathy for others. And to be honest, I've certainly been that way at different stages of my life. And it makes me think that we all have to sometimes remind ourselves to be empathetic. And actually listen, when someone is telling you something difficult in their life. I know that sometimes I can end up getting wrapped up in my own thoughts, my own challenges, and not paying enough attention to what people are telling me. The way I see it is that there's almost no two ways of putting yourself first, you can be self focused, or self absorbed. Self focusing, I think is a positive thing. It's about the practice of putting yourself first when you need to or when it's absolutely necessary. Self absorption rather, is a constant preoccupation with yourself to the detriment of the other people in your life, who might want your help when they really need it. I feel like self absorption is the default for a lot of people. And the remedy to this is practising empathy more. How do we give our wives and girlfriends the love and support they need so that their needs are met? It's interesting to see how the role of men and women has changed since 1987. David is in a unique position to see the differences not only in years, but also in country is he's originally a Canadian man, but has now lived in the UK for over 30 years, longer than the time he actually spent in Canada, the country of his birth and upbringing. I feel like David was faced with an aha moment during the period in which the story was set, where he suddenly realised, ah, I'm lacking some perspective in this marriage. And this realisation really improved the quality of his relation tenfold because of this, and who knows where their relationship in their marriage would have been. If he hadn't caught her washing the ceiling of their otherwise spotless apartment.