1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,580 Matt Edmundson: Okay, we are recording now. 2 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:04,809 Yes, we are. 3 00:00:05,499 --> 00:00:10,700 Hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 4 00:00:11,049 --> 00:00:16,450 Oh yes, this is a show all about helping you deliver eCommerce well. 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:22,409 And to help us do just that, today we are chatting with a man all the way, 6 00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:24,989 almost from the other side of the world, it feels close to Vancouver, 7 00:00:25,019 --> 00:00:26,519 so maybe not as far away as we think. 8 00:00:26,890 --> 00:00:32,500 Jordan West who is from the West from UpGrowth Commerce, about navigating 9 00:00:32,500 --> 00:00:38,299 the new tide, Affiliate Influencer Marketing in the Era of TikTok Shops. 10 00:00:38,590 --> 00:00:40,699 Oh yeah, we're going to get into marketing, we're going to get into 11 00:00:40,699 --> 00:00:43,250 TikTok and as Jordan said, we can talk about pretty much anything, and 12 00:00:43,250 --> 00:00:47,614 we probably will so do stay tuned, grab your notebooks, grab your pens. 13 00:00:48,055 --> 00:00:50,575 Now, if you're new to the eCommerce Podcast, let me extend 14 00:00:50,575 --> 00:00:52,535 a very warm welcome to you. 15 00:00:52,895 --> 00:00:55,235 Always great when new people join us. 16 00:00:55,455 --> 00:00:58,484 And if you haven't done so already, make sure you hit that subscribe 17 00:00:58,484 --> 00:01:01,174 button or follow us wherever you get your podcasts from, because 18 00:01:01,204 --> 00:01:02,504 we just love talking about eCom. 19 00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:06,829 And I know it is going to be helpful for you and your eCommerce business 20 00:01:07,199 --> 00:01:11,459 because I get so many people commenting and just connecting with me and saying, 21 00:01:11,459 --> 00:01:12,839 man, that was super, super helpful. 22 00:01:12,859 --> 00:01:15,169 We know it's good stuff, so make sure you subscribe to it. 23 00:01:15,409 --> 00:01:17,509 If you're feeling a little bit daring. 24 00:01:17,824 --> 00:01:20,004 Go to the website, ecommercepodcast. 25 00:01:20,034 --> 00:01:23,854 net, put in your name and email address and we will send you an email every 26 00:01:23,854 --> 00:01:28,384 week with the notes and the links from the show straight to your inbox. 27 00:01:28,414 --> 00:01:32,064 Oh yes, nothing you gotta do, it's just automatic, it's a beautiful thing so why 28 00:01:32,064 --> 00:01:35,784 not give that a shout as well, it'd be great to see you, there's thousands of 29 00:01:35,784 --> 00:01:39,184 other people on that newsletter list, you won't be the first, but you will 30 00:01:39,184 --> 00:01:41,134 get some great stuff, no doubt about it. 31 00:01:41,144 --> 00:01:41,414 Now. 32 00:01:42,544 --> 00:01:46,784 Let's take a brief moment to thank the show sponsor. 33 00:01:46,814 --> 00:01:51,574 Oh, yes eCommerce Cohort enables us to bring you the eCommerce Podcast. 34 00:01:51,574 --> 00:01:52,844 It's our monthly membership group. 35 00:01:53,134 --> 00:01:54,204 It's what keeps us going. 36 00:01:54,214 --> 00:01:56,854 If you haven't done so already, check it out, eCommerceCohort. 37 00:01:57,204 --> 00:01:57,524 com. 38 00:01:57,854 --> 00:01:58,634 I'm in there. 39 00:01:58,804 --> 00:01:59,924 We've got workshops. 40 00:01:59,924 --> 00:02:03,534 We've got all kinds of stuff about eCom and you even get to watch the 41 00:02:03,534 --> 00:02:05,954 podcast recording live, if you remember. 42 00:02:06,339 --> 00:02:09,189 Why not check it out, it's going to be great, it's going to be awesome. 43 00:02:09,529 --> 00:02:11,959 Have a look, as they say. 44 00:02:12,399 --> 00:02:13,849 Now let's talk about Jordan. 45 00:02:13,849 --> 00:02:19,689 Jordan West leaped into the marketing world in 22, transforming a Taco 46 00:02:19,689 --> 00:02:25,059 Del Mar restaurant into a sales triumph through sheer ingenuity. 47 00:02:25,629 --> 00:02:28,719 I'm Jordan, just to pre-warn You, my friend. 48 00:02:28,899 --> 00:02:31,239 I want to know what sheer ingenuity looks like. 49 00:02:31,429 --> 00:02:35,839 He and his wife then nurtured little and lively from a quaint home venture 50 00:02:35,839 --> 00:02:41,719 to a juggernaut among Canada's top baby brands, showcasing his flare for 51 00:02:41,724 --> 00:02:43,579 scaling and e-commerce businesses. 52 00:02:43,999 --> 00:02:46,759 After the clock, Jordan swap business strategist for lifesaving 53 00:02:46,759 --> 00:02:48,289 techniques as a paramedic. 54 00:02:48,509 --> 00:02:49,839 A man after my own heart. 55 00:02:49,839 --> 00:02:52,539 We've got some, we're gonna, I don't know what we're gonna be talking about. 56 00:02:52,539 --> 00:02:55,819 We've got some commonalities, let me tell you and loved helping 57 00:02:55,819 --> 00:02:58,039 people on their worst day. 58 00:02:58,039 --> 00:02:59,419 Jordan, welcome to the show, man. 59 00:02:59,419 --> 00:03:00,149 Great to have you. 60 00:03:00,149 --> 00:03:01,199 How are you doing? 61 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,799 Yep. 62 00:03:04,859 --> 00:03:07,189 Jordan West: not going to lie to you for the last five minutes or whatever 63 00:03:07,189 --> 00:03:09,279 that was not talking just listening. 64 00:03:09,279 --> 00:03:10,799 I'm like, Oh, what a great exercise. 65 00:03:10,889 --> 00:03:12,499 This is really beautiful right now. 66 00:03:12,499 --> 00:03:14,619 I'm not going to chime in on any of this kind of stuff. 67 00:03:14,619 --> 00:03:16,419 And even some of the language you were using, I was like, Oh 68 00:03:16,419 --> 00:03:18,019 man, okay, this is really nice. 69 00:03:18,019 --> 00:03:19,399 I really appreciate all of that. 70 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:23,389 Let's see if I can actually deliver on what that intro exactly was. 71 00:03:23,844 --> 00:03:27,484 Everything in it was true, but I just want to make sure that, people 72 00:03:27,484 --> 00:03:30,414 understand it's it's not quite as good as it sounds, or I'm not quite as good 73 00:03:30,414 --> 00:03:33,454 as it sounds, but I'm going to really try and deliver some good stuff today. 74 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:34,590 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 75 00:03:34,590 --> 00:03:35,580 I'm looking forward to it. 76 00:03:35,990 --> 00:03:37,840 Now, let's deal with the paramedic thing first. 77 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,130 The reason why that caught my attention, and just to let you know, I don't actually 78 00:03:41,130 --> 00:03:45,059 read these bios until we do the show, because I like to be surprised by them. 79 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,000 And it's always a thing that I do. 80 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,780 I don't know why, I just like to be surprised by what's in the bio, and 81 00:03:49,780 --> 00:03:53,050 Sadaf puts a lot of time and energy into crafting these things, which is great. 82 00:03:53,695 --> 00:03:56,015 And so I didn't realize that you were a paramedic. 83 00:03:56,015 --> 00:03:58,365 Now, the reason why I find this interesting, apart from paramedics 84 00:03:58,365 --> 00:04:02,975 are awesome, is I too worked on the ambulances here in Liverpool, England. 85 00:04:03,285 --> 00:04:06,735 I too have seen a fair few things come across people in their worst day. 86 00:04:07,155 --> 00:04:10,915 And actually we had a lodger live with us for, she, Jenny lived with 87 00:04:10,915 --> 00:04:13,105 us, I don't know, seven, eight years. 88 00:04:13,105 --> 00:04:16,215 It was a long old time and she was a beautiful young lady. 89 00:04:16,215 --> 00:04:16,945 She got married. 90 00:04:17,450 --> 00:04:20,190 Last year I want to say, maybe the year before, I can't remember now, it all 91 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:23,620 blurs into, anyway, I walked her down the aisle, I did the whole Father of the Bride 92 00:04:23,620 --> 00:04:28,810 speech thing and and she's a paramedic, she married an advanced paramedic who 93 00:04:28,810 --> 00:04:32,870 drives the super fast cars around the, all kinds of cool stuff, I just love the whole 94 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,540 paramedic thing man, so thank you for doing that and thank you for having some 95 00:04:36,540 --> 00:04:40,430 fun with that, and thank you for sticking through the boredom with that as well. 96 00:04:41,910 --> 00:04:44,860 Jordan West: Absolutely, it's really interesting thinking about some 97 00:04:44,860 --> 00:04:48,890 of the confluence between being a paramedic and the things that I 98 00:04:48,890 --> 00:04:51,370 learned in that and business, right? 99 00:04:51,420 --> 00:04:55,160 Really, no matter what kind of meeting I go into or, issue that 100 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,010 I'm in, I'm like, It's not really scary what's the worst thing? 101 00:04:58,010 --> 00:05:01,940 I've told literally hundreds of people that their loved one is dead and had to 102 00:05:01,940 --> 00:05:05,970 have that difficult conversation with them and had to navigate that, right? 103 00:05:05,970 --> 00:05:07,490 And so we're just talking about business. 104 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,140 That's okay. 105 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,410 Like we, we can do conversations like that and it's just money, right? 106 00:05:11,410 --> 00:05:14,810 Like my mentor, he's South African and he's got this, some kind of South 107 00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:18,280 African phrase that basically just throws his hands up and is it's just money. 108 00:05:18,545 --> 00:05:21,505 I just had a really good friend of mine, a lawyer friend of mine 109 00:05:21,735 --> 00:05:23,355 drop dead with an aneurysm, right? 110 00:05:23,365 --> 00:05:24,305 That's life. 111 00:05:24,605 --> 00:05:28,885 This is business and it's a lot of fun and so I think it's really nice to 112 00:05:28,885 --> 00:05:30,895 still maintain that old perspective. 113 00:05:30,895 --> 00:05:34,475 It's been four and a half years since I've done anything to do with being 114 00:05:34,475 --> 00:05:36,205 a paramedic and I miss it a bit. 115 00:05:36,305 --> 00:05:37,445 I'm glad that you brought it back up. 116 00:05:37,445 --> 00:05:38,375 I was like, yeah, that's right. 117 00:05:38,375 --> 00:05:42,915 That was Jordan, 17.0 and we're now on Jordan 25 or whatever it is. 118 00:05:43,690 --> 00:05:45,490 Matt Edmundson: Whatever state we're in now, we don't really know. 119 00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:46,820 No, absolutely. 120 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:47,950 It is fascinating. 121 00:05:47,950 --> 00:05:48,430 You are right. 122 00:05:48,470 --> 00:05:52,570 And when you contrast the two things When you have to deal with people 123 00:05:52,570 --> 00:05:56,020 in their worst moments of life, I've never come across anything 124 00:05:56,020 --> 00:05:57,840 in business that's that bad. 125 00:05:58,470 --> 00:06:00,040 We've had some bad times. 126 00:06:00,970 --> 00:06:05,750 In context, we're still here, and it's always, it's quite 127 00:06:05,750 --> 00:06:06,830 a sobering thought, isn't it? 128 00:06:06,830 --> 00:06:08,620 And it's always quite interesting to think about that. 129 00:06:09,245 --> 00:06:11,815 So tell me about what was it we said in the bio, I'm just 130 00:06:11,815 --> 00:06:12,685 going to pull it up here. 131 00:06:13,325 --> 00:06:20,555 So you tackled a restaurant sales into sales triumph through sheer ingenuity. 132 00:06:20,555 --> 00:06:21,595 What was that all about? 133 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,120 Jordan West: Who writes these things, that's what I wanna know. 134 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:25,510 Matt Edmundson: Great. 135 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,000 She's also Canadian, funnily enough. 136 00:06:29,675 --> 00:06:30,540 Jordan West: Oh wonderful. 137 00:06:30,590 --> 00:06:32,090 Yeah, let me tell you a little bit about that. 138 00:06:32,095 --> 00:06:35,180 So I was 22 years old and I'm now 38. 139 00:06:35,210 --> 00:06:36,950 I don't know, you guys are probably thinking like, oh, 140 00:06:36,950 --> 00:06:38,330 38, you don't look like that. 141 00:06:38,385 --> 00:06:39,915 You look, don't look a day over 23. 142 00:06:40,195 --> 00:06:40,370 No. 143 00:06:40,370 --> 00:06:41,810 I was at the barber yesterday 144 00:06:41,905 --> 00:06:42,625 Matt Edmundson: That's exactly what I was 145 00:06:42,780 --> 00:06:45,530 Jordan West: he showed me the back of my head and let me tell 146 00:06:45,530 --> 00:06:48,790 you, I said, sorry, is that skin that I'm seeing through there? 147 00:06:48,820 --> 00:06:49,640 Is that what I'm seeing? 148 00:06:49,890 --> 00:06:53,200 And he put his hand over top and he said, no, it looks just fine to me. 149 00:06:54,260 --> 00:06:56,570 So I know I'm getting, I know I'm getting a little bit older 150 00:06:56,570 --> 00:06:57,610 when that's starting to happen. 151 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:58,690 Yeah, let me tell you about this. 152 00:06:58,690 --> 00:07:01,130 I was 22 years old and I just wanted to get into business. 153 00:07:01,150 --> 00:07:02,440 I knew nothing about business. 154 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,750 I was, but I knew I wanted to get into business. 155 00:07:05,035 --> 00:07:05,575 Why? 156 00:07:05,655 --> 00:07:06,275 I don't know. 157 00:07:06,325 --> 00:07:07,195 I just wanted to. 158 00:07:07,195 --> 00:07:09,215 And I thought, oh, this is a wonderful way to do it. 159 00:07:09,215 --> 00:07:12,765 And Taco Del Mar at the time was a chain, I think there was about 200 stores. 160 00:07:13,045 --> 00:07:16,875 And they were actually in a bankruptcy as an entire organization. 161 00:07:17,125 --> 00:07:19,235 And we knew that they were going to get bought out of it, but a 162 00:07:19,235 --> 00:07:20,355 lot of the stores were struggling. 163 00:07:20,355 --> 00:07:23,695 And I thought, I, so I was able to buy a store for about 35, 000 Canadian. 164 00:07:24,055 --> 00:07:27,365 And so I was like I know the equipment is probably worth around that. 165 00:07:27,365 --> 00:07:28,965 So what's the worst thing that can happen? 166 00:07:29,065 --> 00:07:32,915 The worst thing that can happen is five years of my life, losing hundreds of 167 00:07:32,915 --> 00:07:36,855 thousands of dollars and learning so much. 168 00:07:36,885 --> 00:07:39,595 And so I was not good at operations. 169 00:07:39,595 --> 00:07:40,845 I've never been good at operations. 170 00:07:40,865 --> 00:07:43,425 I'm sure you can tell I'm not an operations kind of guy. 171 00:07:43,665 --> 00:07:45,005 We lost a lot of money, but. 172 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:48,690 We ended up tripling the sales over that time and so I was really proud of 173 00:07:48,690 --> 00:07:51,930 that, and I feel like we maxed out the capacity and the reason why I think that 174 00:07:51,930 --> 00:07:55,370 is because we were almost even with the Subway that was next door to us, and 175 00:07:55,370 --> 00:07:58,340 Subway was still in its heyday at that time, and I knew what their sales were, 176 00:07:58,550 --> 00:08:01,500 and I knew what ours were, and I thought, okay, I think we've maxed out what we can 177 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:05,550 do here, and we still couldn't make money and it was a, such a great experience. 178 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,800 It's funny, people will say Oh, two plus exits or two X exits or something. 179 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:11,080 I never considered that an exit. 180 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,890 I sold it for 25, 000. 181 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:16,020 At the end of it because I didn't want to renew the lease. 182 00:08:16,665 --> 00:08:18,895 But you know what an incredible experience, right? 183 00:08:18,925 --> 00:08:21,995 In all of this, I always take these experiences and think who, what do 184 00:08:21,995 --> 00:08:23,865 I want to look back on in my life? 185 00:08:23,865 --> 00:08:26,775 Do I want to like, do I want to die with a big pile of cash? 186 00:08:27,525 --> 00:08:28,085 Why? 187 00:08:28,125 --> 00:08:28,665 I don't know. 188 00:08:28,715 --> 00:08:30,675 What I want is to experience things, right? 189 00:08:30,855 --> 00:08:32,655 And yes, in those moments, it's hard, right? 190 00:08:32,755 --> 00:08:35,455 Like we're actually, I own a bunch of businesses now and some of 191 00:08:35,455 --> 00:08:37,575 them are going through some really difficult times and we're having to 192 00:08:37,585 --> 00:08:40,385 have some really hard conversations with banks and all these things. 193 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:42,570 And it's funny, none of it keeps me up. 194 00:08:43,020 --> 00:08:43,680 It just doesn't. 195 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:46,680 It's okay what's the, none of it's going to kill me, right? 196 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,840 Like I don't have debt to the mafia. 197 00:08:48,890 --> 00:08:50,400 So none of it's going to kill me. 198 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,350 And if anything, it's just a beautiful way to just continue to experience life. 199 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,900 Yeah that's what I got to say about that. 200 00:08:57,250 --> 00:08:58,200 Matt Edmundson: That sounds fascinating. 201 00:08:58,350 --> 00:08:59,060 Sounds fascinating. 202 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,190 It's interesting because one of the strategic decisions we've made as a 203 00:09:02,190 --> 00:09:04,880 company in the non too distant past is. 204 00:09:05,595 --> 00:09:10,405 We've decided that we are going to start investing in other eCom businesses, right? 205 00:09:10,415 --> 00:09:13,755 So we've been running, I don't know if I've mentioned this before on 206 00:09:13,765 --> 00:09:15,915 the podcast, it's probably the first time I haven't mentioned it actually. 207 00:09:16,515 --> 00:09:21,615 But we've been running eCom businesses for 22 years now, Jesus, it's a long 208 00:09:21,615 --> 00:09:23,665 time, oh goodness me, it's a long time. 209 00:09:24,275 --> 00:09:25,145 Jordan West: The birth of eCom. 210 00:09:25,420 --> 00:09:26,730 Matt Edmundson: yeah something like that. 211 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:28,900 And we've been doing it a while. 212 00:09:29,550 --> 00:09:33,040 We added up our sort of total worldwide sales, it was over 75 million. 213 00:09:34,205 --> 00:09:35,675 Our client's over 100 million. 214 00:09:35,675 --> 00:09:36,735 This is pretty cool. 215 00:09:36,785 --> 00:09:38,215 We've learned a thing or two on the way. 216 00:09:38,805 --> 00:09:43,165 And so I'm intrigued now to see whether investing in other companies 217 00:09:43,205 --> 00:09:46,285 and becoming part of another business, having multiple businesses like that. 218 00:09:47,005 --> 00:09:51,365 It's the sort of the next level and I'm, like you say, it's just fun. 219 00:09:51,375 --> 00:09:55,565 The whole idea of it I find fascinating and fun and finding partners that you 220 00:09:55,565 --> 00:09:59,015 can work with and just enjoying it, just seeing what happens and why not. 221 00:09:59,185 --> 00:09:59,455 Jordan West: Yes. 222 00:10:00,015 --> 00:10:00,455 Yes. 223 00:10:00,485 --> 00:10:00,795 Yes. 224 00:10:00,805 --> 00:10:03,455 And I think that's one of the, that's a great question, right? 225 00:10:04,025 --> 00:10:04,745 Why not? 226 00:10:04,905 --> 00:10:06,445 Maybe it's going to be difficult. 227 00:10:06,515 --> 00:10:09,085 It probably will be just cause something's difficult. 228 00:10:09,135 --> 00:10:10,345 Does it mean not to do it? 229 00:10:10,345 --> 00:10:13,315 And obviously, you're not going to go and bet a million dollars on something 230 00:10:13,315 --> 00:10:14,305 that you're like, ah, I don't know. 231 00:10:14,305 --> 00:10:15,025 Let's just do it. 232 00:10:15,525 --> 00:10:18,005 But there is a point where you have to take risks, right? 233 00:10:18,005 --> 00:10:20,035 And it's interesting because I've been having a lot of lawyer and 234 00:10:20,055 --> 00:10:23,355 banker conversations recently and lawyers and bankers are not creative. 235 00:10:23,395 --> 00:10:24,785 They're not entrepreneurs, right? 236 00:10:24,815 --> 00:10:25,685 They don't know how. 237 00:10:26,075 --> 00:10:29,165 What they don't know how to do is creatively solve a problem, right? 238 00:10:29,465 --> 00:10:32,975 What they know how to do is tell you what things happened and what 239 00:10:32,975 --> 00:10:36,275 things look like right now, whereas entrepreneurs have this incredible way 240 00:10:36,275 --> 00:10:38,045 of being able to create the future. 241 00:10:38,195 --> 00:10:38,910 Like we're incredible. 242 00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:41,790 As humans, we can somehow imagine something and then it can happen. 243 00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:43,310 Like it's magic. 244 00:10:43,315 --> 00:10:44,950 Do we not realize how magical. 245 00:10:45,410 --> 00:10:48,000 What we do is, especially as entrepreneurs, right? 246 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,100 Like we're creating worlds, right? 247 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,640 So that's really important to remember that what you're doing is really 248 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,310 important in the world, whether you're, you might just think, Oh, I'm just 249 00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:57,500 selling a widget or whatever it is. 250 00:10:57,730 --> 00:10:58,790 What you're doing is important. 251 00:10:58,810 --> 00:10:59,550 It matters. 252 00:11:00,670 --> 00:11:01,370 Matt Edmundson: Totally agree. 253 00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:02,240 Totally agree. 254 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,530 By the way, I'm loving your little logo behind you. 255 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,440 It's not as little is it really, but the clever way of doing the word up, 256 00:11:09,050 --> 00:11:11,310 like that, with the heart, very clever. 257 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,070 Yeah, nothing related to anything, of course if you're listening to the 258 00:11:14,070 --> 00:11:16,330 podcast and not watching it, you're like, Matt what are you talking about? 259 00:11:16,670 --> 00:11:20,410 Just go to the website, Google UpGrowth Commerce and you'll see what I mean. 260 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,900 So tell me a little bit about UpGrowth Commerce, tell me what you got, how you 261 00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:26,520 guys have ended up where you are now. 262 00:11:27,410 --> 00:11:27,790 Jordan West: Yeah. 263 00:11:27,790 --> 00:11:28,000 Yeah. 264 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,110 Great question again. 265 00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:29,690 And thanks. 266 00:11:29,710 --> 00:11:30,880 Thanks for having me on here. 267 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,560 This is one of my favorite things in the world to do. 268 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:33,850 I'll tell you a bit about UpGrowth Commerce. 269 00:11:33,850 --> 00:11:37,040 UpGrowth Commerce actually started way back in the day. 270 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:38,890 I think it was like 2014, 2015. 271 00:11:38,890 --> 00:11:39,970 I started dropshipping. 272 00:11:39,980 --> 00:11:43,020 So my very first store was dropshipping hoverboards. 273 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,640 And so at that time I don't know if you guys remember 274 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:45,790 Matt Edmundson: of. 275 00:11:46,155 --> 00:11:48,645 Hoverboards, that kind of back to the future type thing. 276 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,100 Jordan West: yeah like those things like you had to balance and, 277 00:11:52,275 --> 00:11:53,185 Matt Edmundson: okay, I know what you mean. 278 00:11:53,235 --> 00:11:53,385 Yeah. 279 00:11:53,740 --> 00:11:55,430 Jordan West: Yeah, those like balance boards, we over 280 00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:56,490 here call them hoverboards. 281 00:11:56,740 --> 00:11:59,170 And so there was quite a demand for them and I was like, okay, 282 00:11:59,170 --> 00:12:00,130 I think I can figure this out. 283 00:12:00,130 --> 00:12:02,730 So I still had my Taco Del Mar restaurant and I was trying to figure it all out. 284 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,910 So I just started running some Google ads and I actually made a lot of money. 285 00:12:06,170 --> 00:12:09,580 In, at that time I was like, things were very difficult and I think I made 286 00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:11,930 an extra 20 or 30 wow, this is amazing. 287 00:12:12,510 --> 00:12:16,820 It was all great until I sold something to somebody just down the street from me 288 00:12:17,340 --> 00:12:21,090 and I was drop shipping these from China and they were having issues with it and 289 00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:23,710 then other people started having issues with them and I was like, you know what? 290 00:12:24,050 --> 00:12:25,490 I want to own my products. 291 00:12:25,570 --> 00:12:27,440 I don't want to sell somebody else's products. 292 00:12:27,510 --> 00:12:30,910 I want to own, so everything I do, I want to make sure that it's mine and 293 00:12:30,910 --> 00:12:32,140 that I can actually stand behind it. 294 00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:33,690 So I just ended up just shutting that down. 295 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:34,940 It was called Hoverboard Authority. 296 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,910 If anybody wants the URL, hoverboardauthority. 297 00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:38,960 com, I think I still own it. 298 00:12:39,295 --> 00:12:43,265 And it was really fun, and during that time, we, my wife and I had our first 299 00:12:43,265 --> 00:12:47,845 child, we have three now and she's ten Daphne, and my wife was a fashion 300 00:12:47,845 --> 00:12:50,445 designer but she wasn't really using it much, she was doing some graphic 301 00:12:50,495 --> 00:12:54,895 design for a non profit at the time, and she started making sorry, so our, 302 00:12:54,955 --> 00:13:00,305 we were trying out cloth diapers, and cloth diapers, worst decision ever 303 00:13:00,325 --> 00:13:02,735 Matt Edmundson: I feel your pain brother, we made the same decision, 304 00:13:02,735 --> 00:13:04,385 we never, yeah, anyway, carry on, 305 00:13:05,615 --> 00:13:08,365 Jordan West: It was only for the first little bit, but it really 306 00:13:08,525 --> 00:13:13,325 sparked what happened with our baby brand at Little Unlively because we 307 00:13:13,325 --> 00:13:14,845 realized that there was a huge issue. 308 00:13:14,845 --> 00:13:18,475 We could not find leggings that would go over top of cloth diapers. 309 00:13:18,475 --> 00:13:20,555 They just wouldn't fit and they would sit halfway down. 310 00:13:21,115 --> 00:13:24,225 And so my wife was like, Oh, this is an easy pattern to make. 311 00:13:24,285 --> 00:13:25,425 And so she just tweaked the pattern. 312 00:13:25,425 --> 00:13:27,925 She got some from Carter's or something and just tweaked it and was like, 313 00:13:27,925 --> 00:13:30,020 Oh, I think that this will work. 314 00:13:30,390 --> 00:13:32,290 And then people saw them and were like, Oh can I get them? 315 00:13:32,290 --> 00:13:35,000 And then a wholesaler called us and was like, Hey, can we get them? 316 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,310 And we went to some craft markets and we kept selling out. 317 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,610 And it's incredible because our baby leggings are still our number one seller. 318 00:13:42,610 --> 00:13:43,900 That was 2014 and we're in 319 00:13:44,365 --> 00:13:44,935 Matt Edmundson: wow, 320 00:13:45,220 --> 00:13:48,440 Jordan West: There's still our number one seller, which is just crazy. 321 00:13:48,490 --> 00:13:51,840 And people come to us from all over the world for these leggings, which is 322 00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:55,470 funny because it's a very it's a product that you think would be all out there, 323 00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:59,240 but people haven't made this kind of version of it still in the baby space. 324 00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:04,050 And so from there we found we went on Etsy because we were pretty familiar with 325 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:06,940 Etsy through some other like crafting kind of stuff that my wife liked to do. 326 00:14:07,615 --> 00:14:10,865 And then from Etsy, we started to look into different platforms. 327 00:14:10,865 --> 00:14:14,075 And at the time, it was not an obvious choice to go with Shopify. 328 00:14:14,075 --> 00:14:14,805 It just wasn't. 329 00:14:15,065 --> 00:14:17,015 It was like, we were like looking all over. 330 00:14:17,145 --> 00:14:19,885 Now, I wish that I had poured a bunch of that money into 331 00:14:19,885 --> 00:14:21,625 Shopify stock at that time. 332 00:14:21,955 --> 00:14:24,345 That would have been, oh, what a sweet story that would be right 333 00:14:24,555 --> 00:14:25,085 Matt Edmundson: you and me both yeah. 334 00:14:25,665 --> 00:14:30,735 Jordan West: And so totally and it's interesting because I'm I 335 00:14:30,735 --> 00:14:32,325 never mean to be an early adopter. 336 00:14:32,355 --> 00:14:35,025 I never mean to, I just have friends that are early adopters that tell 337 00:14:35,025 --> 00:14:38,205 me about these things and I'm like the one thing I'm really good at, 338 00:14:38,205 --> 00:14:40,515 I love Clifton's strengths, and one of the strengths in Clifton's 339 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,005 strengths is maximize your strengths. 340 00:14:42,005 --> 00:14:43,265 And it's really being able to see. 341 00:14:43,780 --> 00:14:46,130 It's really being able to see something and Oh, I know what to do 342 00:14:46,130 --> 00:14:48,230 with that or that person's strength. 343 00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:49,980 And I know where to put them exactly. 344 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,740 That's really the only strength I have. 345 00:14:51,740 --> 00:14:54,120 I can never see into the future, but I've got friends who can. 346 00:14:54,390 --> 00:14:59,395 So Shopify, we went on there and then we started running ads and People 347 00:14:59,395 --> 00:15:02,475 would see our ads and they'd be like, Hey, can you do that for us? 348 00:15:02,925 --> 00:15:05,895 And at the time it was like, sure, like I'll come, why don't 349 00:15:05,895 --> 00:15:06,975 I come show you how to do it? 350 00:15:06,975 --> 00:15:07,955 It's really easy. 351 00:15:08,245 --> 00:15:10,265 So I would show them how to do that and set up flows. 352 00:15:10,275 --> 00:15:13,705 And then, I found Klaviyo at the time or Klaviyo, whatever you guys call it. 353 00:15:13,715 --> 00:15:15,865 And and we just started to go from there. 354 00:15:15,865 --> 00:15:17,925 And I was just doing all this for free for people. 355 00:15:18,315 --> 00:15:21,245 And somebody was like hey, can you run it for us? 356 00:15:21,795 --> 00:15:22,675 I was like, yeah, sure. 357 00:15:22,695 --> 00:15:25,795 So I hired a friend and then from there it just ballooned 358 00:15:25,795 --> 00:15:27,295 and it just started to take off. 359 00:15:27,295 --> 00:15:30,185 And so I realized I love the agency game. 360 00:15:30,195 --> 00:15:31,425 I love it more than the brand game. 361 00:15:31,425 --> 00:15:33,145 I'm not because I'm not a good operator, 362 00:15:33,375 --> 00:15:33,595 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 363 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,460 Jordan West: and so that's where UpGrowth Commerce came from. 364 00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:39,550 And it really just came out of the need of number one for my wife and I 365 00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:43,590 not to work together every day because that doesn't work in my opinion, like 366 00:15:45,415 --> 00:15:47,395 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, the quickest way to get a divorce is work with 367 00:15:47,395 --> 00:15:48,635 your wife in a lot of ways, isn't it? 368 00:15:48,635 --> 00:15:50,935 Hats off to people that can do it successfully, but I 369 00:15:51,485 --> 00:15:52,645 know exactly what you mean. 370 00:15:53,615 --> 00:15:55,585 Jordan West: yeah, to me, it's not the kind of life I want 371 00:15:55,595 --> 00:15:56,665 to live in that sort of way. 372 00:15:56,675 --> 00:15:58,685 And also we're both visionaries, right? 373 00:15:58,685 --> 00:16:02,095 So when you bring two visionaries into a group and this is why I love the 374 00:16:02,105 --> 00:16:03,635 entrepreneurial operating system, right? 375 00:16:03,685 --> 00:16:06,695 Having that language where you're like, Oh, actually. 376 00:16:07,070 --> 00:16:10,820 I'm a visionary, you're a visionary, but we both try and make each other 377 00:16:10,820 --> 00:16:12,150 the other person's integrator. 378 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,540 Like we both want to have that. 379 00:16:13,770 --> 00:16:18,230 And so I had this beautiful vision for the agency of what I wanted to create. 380 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,900 And through some hiccups and all of that kind of stuff, we are 381 00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:22,430 where we are now at the agency. 382 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,240 And I also have run a podcast for years with the agency called Seekers to 383 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,565 Scaling Your eCommerce Brand, where I brought on Lots of just amazing brands 384 00:16:29,565 --> 00:16:30,995 over the years and heard about them. 385 00:16:30,995 --> 00:16:34,365 And we're in such an interesting cycle right now in eCom, right? 386 00:16:34,405 --> 00:16:39,645 Like I hear about, I would say a brand a day going bankrupt right 387 00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:40,200 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 388 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:40,460 Yeah. 389 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:41,800 It's quite a common thing at the moment. 390 00:16:42,835 --> 00:16:44,185 Jordan West: It's really difficult right now. 391 00:16:44,185 --> 00:16:45,925 And so what we're trying to do is figure out like. 392 00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:49,130 Where do agencies sit in all of this, right? 393 00:16:49,130 --> 00:16:52,880 And, for anyone who can see my sign back here, you can see A and sucks. 394 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,340 But really what my big thing that I'm talking about is that agencies suck. 395 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,150 And it's not because I think that agencies actually do. 396 00:17:00,150 --> 00:17:03,880 I think that inherently there is a mismatched there's. 397 00:17:04,215 --> 00:17:08,295 There's mismatched incentives for agencies versus brands and what I'm really trying 398 00:17:08,295 --> 00:17:11,165 to do and I do a lot of consulting with agencies and it's I think about it 399 00:17:11,165 --> 00:17:14,865 almost like the psychological torment where I'm like, agencies suck, hey, come 400 00:17:14,865 --> 00:17:18,465 consult with me, so I can tell you how not to suck, but really at the end of 401 00:17:18,465 --> 00:17:22,385 the day, I think that there's misaligned incentives in a lot of ways and that's 402 00:17:22,385 --> 00:17:25,875 what I'm trying to solve with upgrowth and then also in the greater, scheme 403 00:17:25,895 --> 00:17:30,035 of where agencies sit exactly with, specifically with direct consumer brands. 404 00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:33,720 Matt Edmundson: It's interesting listening to you talk because I love 405 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,005 the fact that you, your agency was born out of your experience in e-com, right? 406 00:17:39,095 --> 00:17:43,535 So I know a lot of agency owners that have never run an e-commerce business, but 407 00:17:43,535 --> 00:17:46,955 come to people like me and say, I can make your e-commerce business better, right? 408 00:17:47,525 --> 00:17:48,755 And part of me gets it. 409 00:17:48,755 --> 00:17:50,705 Part of me is you're a specialist in this area. 410 00:17:51,065 --> 00:17:51,935 I get that. 411 00:17:52,535 --> 00:17:57,440 But I love the fact that actually what you do is born out of your experience 412 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,530 in eCom in terms of running your store, we do coaching as a result 413 00:18:01,530 --> 00:18:03,880 of what we do in eCom, it comes out of that experience, I'm not trying 414 00:18:04,087 --> 00:18:04,833 to convince people or clients to do stuff we've not done and tested 415 00:18:07,023 --> 00:18:09,483 on ourselves. 416 00:18:11,488 --> 00:18:13,318 There's like an integrity to that. 417 00:18:13,338 --> 00:18:15,978 And I love that about your story and what you're doing. 418 00:18:16,348 --> 00:18:21,078 What, when you say that agencies are they've got misaligned 419 00:18:21,628 --> 00:18:24,438 targets or misaligned what was the exact phrase you used? 420 00:18:24,763 --> 00:18:25,593 Jordan West: Incentives. 421 00:18:25,763 --> 00:18:26,503 Matt Edmundson: That's the word, sorry. 422 00:18:27,023 --> 00:18:29,293 The misaligned incentives, what do you mean by that? 423 00:18:30,838 --> 00:18:32,178 Jordan West: I want to give you an example here. 424 00:18:32,178 --> 00:18:37,918 So to actually offer the kind of service that we need to offer for a 425 00:18:37,918 --> 00:18:43,498 brand in creative and media buying and strategy and all of these things, 426 00:18:43,928 --> 00:18:48,528 we need to charge to break even about 10, 000 a month to a brand, right? 427 00:18:48,668 --> 00:18:50,368 So to do that though, right? 428 00:18:50,418 --> 00:18:52,978 So we need to start with us first in mind, right? 429 00:18:52,978 --> 00:18:57,158 When we're thinking about offering this kind of service, that right away. 430 00:18:57,728 --> 00:18:59,548 Get, gets you misaligned, right? 431 00:18:59,778 --> 00:19:02,878 Immediately we're misaligned because I'm only thinking about what I need, right? 432 00:19:02,878 --> 00:19:06,828 And I'm a huge win guy not in the sort of like plithy oh, I don't know, like 433 00:19:06,988 --> 00:19:08,438 maybe win oh, let's try and figure it out. 434 00:19:08,478 --> 00:19:10,998 No, really, I need to figure out like what's the win on our side? 435 00:19:10,998 --> 00:19:13,008 Because we have to figure out what the win on our side is. 436 00:19:13,448 --> 00:19:16,378 So when you start there of what do I need? 437 00:19:16,568 --> 00:19:18,698 First, I don't actually think that works. 438 00:19:18,838 --> 00:19:21,768 I think that first figuring out what does an eCom brand need, right? 439 00:19:21,768 --> 00:19:23,118 What can they afford right now? 440 00:19:23,288 --> 00:19:26,148 We're in this place right now, this eCom winter or whatever we're 441 00:19:26,148 --> 00:19:30,918 calling it, where brands cannot afford a 10, 000 minimum retainer. 442 00:19:31,178 --> 00:19:32,298 It's not going to work. 443 00:19:32,348 --> 00:19:36,368 What kind of return do you have to get on a 10, 000 retainer to make it worthwhile? 444 00:19:36,748 --> 00:19:37,608 A lot of money. 445 00:19:38,058 --> 00:19:41,748 Like we need to 10x our return alone, let alone if we're spending, 446 00:19:42,008 --> 00:19:43,778 on ads and whatever else it is. 447 00:19:44,408 --> 00:19:47,898 We need to have a massive return because I understand, and I think that's the 448 00:19:47,898 --> 00:19:51,558 beautiful thing about running this agency, is that I understand and can empathize 449 00:19:51,598 --> 00:19:55,048 with business owners and eCommerce store owners being like, the margins are 450 00:19:55,048 --> 00:19:59,098 not They're not what everybody thinks when you take shipping and returns 451 00:19:59,098 --> 00:20:00,738 and all of this kind of stuff into it. 452 00:20:00,738 --> 00:20:03,268 I think about one of, one of our brands, I have a 20, 000 a month 453 00:20:03,268 --> 00:20:07,408 lease, there's a lot of costs that go into it that people don't realize. 454 00:20:07,408 --> 00:20:11,668 And so I think that right away you, you start with misaligned incentives. 455 00:20:11,668 --> 00:20:14,388 And so what we're really trying to figure out is Do we have the best 456 00:20:14,398 --> 00:20:18,158 kind of incentive that actually aligns with what the brand wants to do? 457 00:20:18,478 --> 00:20:24,198 Also, while realizing a lot of things that agencies do are completely commoditized. 458 00:20:24,298 --> 00:20:26,188 Media buying, in my opinion, is a commodity. 459 00:20:26,268 --> 00:20:29,588 On Google, Facebook, on TikTok, all those things, it's a commodity. 460 00:20:29,928 --> 00:20:31,288 Does it mean that it's not important? 461 00:20:31,318 --> 00:20:34,098 Oh it's incredibly important, but it's a commodity. 462 00:20:34,098 --> 00:20:39,668 It's not some kind of special skill that you necessarily can't get over, a week. 463 00:20:40,273 --> 00:20:42,493 You can know how to media buy, but it's really important that 464 00:20:42,503 --> 00:20:44,223 you actually trust who does that. 465 00:20:44,423 --> 00:20:46,153 Trust is not a commodity, right? 466 00:20:46,453 --> 00:20:48,703 That is one of those things that is absolutely not a commodity. 467 00:20:48,953 --> 00:20:53,993 And so even strategy, with ChatGPT let's be honest, it gets pretty 468 00:20:53,993 --> 00:20:56,863 good when it comes to strategizing and coming up with different ideas 469 00:20:56,883 --> 00:20:57,733 and all of that kind of stuff. 470 00:20:57,733 --> 00:21:00,133 So that's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about there's 471 00:21:00,133 --> 00:21:01,513 misaligned incentives that. 472 00:21:02,023 --> 00:21:04,823 I think what happens is a an agency figures out what they need to 473 00:21:04,823 --> 00:21:09,083 charge, and then they create a bunch of things to try to justify that 474 00:21:09,368 --> 00:21:10,528 That's what I'm talking about. 475 00:21:11,003 --> 00:21:11,903 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's very good. 476 00:21:11,933 --> 00:21:12,913 So how do you do it then? 477 00:21:12,923 --> 00:21:16,873 Do you do it how do you do it differently? 478 00:21:16,873 --> 00:21:17,222 Yeah, 479 00:21:18,298 --> 00:21:20,388 Jordan West: Yeah, so one of the big things, and this is something huge 480 00:21:20,388 --> 00:21:23,668 that we're working on right now of changing everything because I've been 481 00:21:23,668 --> 00:21:26,568 seeing this coming and I've been seeing this in the agency space for a while. 482 00:21:26,808 --> 00:21:29,348 And so really what we're trying to do is win when brands win. 483 00:21:29,348 --> 00:21:32,428 And so what that means is really base everything on performance 484 00:21:32,448 --> 00:21:35,918 and so have very low retainers that are really performance based. 485 00:21:35,938 --> 00:21:38,868 Now in the past with let's say meta ads, it was really difficult 486 00:21:38,878 --> 00:21:41,448 to do that, especially when attribution was all over the place. 487 00:21:41,458 --> 00:21:41,918 How do you? 488 00:21:42,208 --> 00:21:43,448 Do that when it comes to that. 489 00:21:43,518 --> 00:21:46,998 In my opinion, meta ad buying is a commodity. 490 00:21:46,998 --> 00:21:51,658 And so we charge a flat rate for it, a flat, lower fee rate that is 491 00:21:52,468 --> 00:21:55,488 like way better than the previous service that we created, right? 492 00:21:55,488 --> 00:21:59,468 So the previous service that we created was all about meeting and strategy and 493 00:21:59,478 --> 00:22:02,608 all of these things really at the end of the day, you need to figure out what 494 00:22:02,608 --> 00:22:04,498 ad is going to actually drive traffic. 495 00:22:04,498 --> 00:22:07,068 And generally it's one to five ads that are going to drive. 496 00:22:07,348 --> 00:22:11,708 All of your traffic that are then going to do the rest on your business, right? 497 00:22:11,708 --> 00:22:14,798 And so what I'm always looking for is what is that next thing that 498 00:22:14,798 --> 00:22:16,768 is going to actually help brands? 499 00:22:17,178 --> 00:22:18,768 Media buying is something that has to happen. 500 00:22:18,768 --> 00:22:21,958 You have to be buying media and you have to be getting new eyeballs 501 00:22:21,958 --> 00:22:22,988 on your brand all the time. 502 00:22:23,278 --> 00:22:25,728 I'm not saying don't, do not get rid of your ad spend. 503 00:22:25,778 --> 00:22:26,458 Absolutely not. 504 00:22:26,798 --> 00:22:31,763 But really think about what exactly It's doing for you and the reason 505 00:22:31,773 --> 00:22:35,573 why you are spending that kind of money and enter TikTok shops, right? 506 00:22:35,993 --> 00:22:39,933 This whole new world of what things look like, I don't know if you 507 00:22:39,933 --> 00:22:41,153 want to get into that yet, but 508 00:22:41,313 --> 00:22:41,972 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, let's go there. 509 00:22:43,032 --> 00:22:47,502 Jordan West: yeah so what I saw coming in the, and let's shift 510 00:22:47,502 --> 00:22:48,912 over into the influencer landscape. 511 00:22:49,682 --> 00:22:52,032 So we've worked at the influencers for years at our brand. 512 00:22:52,032 --> 00:22:53,592 So we own multiple brands, by the way 513 00:22:53,712 --> 00:22:55,612 We'll see in the next six months how many we own. 514 00:22:55,852 --> 00:23:01,412 We are, we're divesting quite heavily right now on that side, just because of 515 00:23:01,552 --> 00:23:03,092 just a lot of different factors for me. 516 00:23:03,092 --> 00:23:04,442 I've gone all in at the agency. 517 00:23:04,442 --> 00:23:06,862 I have CEOs that are running everything else or general 518 00:23:06,862 --> 00:23:08,002 managers or whatever that is. 519 00:23:08,182 --> 00:23:08,422 I. 520 00:23:08,762 --> 00:23:10,642 Personally, this is what I want to do. 521 00:23:10,642 --> 00:23:13,022 We've actually, we tripled our agency last year, which is great. 522 00:23:13,292 --> 00:23:15,872 The only reason we did that is because we actually, tripled the 523 00:23:15,872 --> 00:23:17,142 amount of brands that we're helping. 524 00:23:17,402 --> 00:23:19,922 And so we want to continue to do that. 525 00:23:19,962 --> 00:23:21,542 I love what I do here. 526 00:23:21,542 --> 00:23:23,642 And so I really want to focus on this. 527 00:23:23,642 --> 00:23:28,182 And so that's why we're divesting quite a bit of stuff, but all of that to say. 528 00:23:28,248 --> 00:23:32,967 Hey, what I saw coming in the influencer space was that the, 529 00:23:33,097 --> 00:23:34,417 there was a bubble, right? 530 00:23:34,457 --> 00:23:38,087 There's always bubbles and you can generally see bubbles afterwards. 531 00:23:38,127 --> 00:23:41,327 I think I've seen this bubble while it's happening in the influencer space. 532 00:23:41,327 --> 00:23:45,467 The reason why is I also, and I don't know if you're in the space too, I 533 00:23:45,477 --> 00:23:47,437 also am an influencer in certain ways. 534 00:23:47,457 --> 00:23:50,207 I get paid by software companies often to talk about them. 535 00:23:50,207 --> 00:23:54,457 And I, again, Everything that I do is based on trust, and so I will only 536 00:23:54,457 --> 00:23:59,807 work with ones that I actually believe in, I've tried, I use but they don't 537 00:24:00,087 --> 00:24:02,367 necessarily always pay me for performance. 538 00:24:02,467 --> 00:24:05,787 They'll just pay a flat rate, and sometimes I think, you're paying me a 539 00:24:05,787 --> 00:24:08,087 lot of money just to talk about you. 540 00:24:08,402 --> 00:24:10,892 Is, does, is this actually a win? 541 00:24:11,122 --> 00:24:15,932 And so when you think win, you realize, oh, are they actually getting everything 542 00:24:15,992 --> 00:24:17,702 out of this that they could be? 543 00:24:17,732 --> 00:24:21,702 And so I love the performance model because you only get 544 00:24:21,702 --> 00:24:23,302 paid when you actually perform. 545 00:24:23,302 --> 00:24:24,672 And so I've seen this with influencers. 546 00:24:24,702 --> 00:24:28,882 Now let's get into direct consumer because I think this is where it really hits. 547 00:24:29,222 --> 00:24:32,472 The amount of times, and I don't know about you, maybe you're a lot more wise 548 00:24:32,472 --> 00:24:36,092 than me, but the amount of times that I've paid 1, 000 for an influencer to post 549 00:24:36,092 --> 00:24:41,392 and it's done nothing, and we maybe get a piece of content, it's innumerable, right? 550 00:24:41,392 --> 00:24:43,382 Like the amount of times you're like, Oh, this one's going to hit. 551 00:24:44,162 --> 00:24:46,922 And so I saw this in the space and I was like, this cannot. 552 00:24:47,192 --> 00:24:48,502 This cannot last. 553 00:24:48,672 --> 00:24:49,902 Brands are not going to do this. 554 00:24:50,362 --> 00:24:54,152 And thus hits the eCom winter where people, these brands just don't 555 00:24:54,162 --> 00:24:55,562 have money to do that anymore. 556 00:24:55,562 --> 00:24:59,552 And so it started this performance influencer model started to come 557 00:24:59,552 --> 00:25:01,662 around and I started to connect with the guys over at Social 558 00:25:01,662 --> 00:25:06,962 Snowball and started to look into, what exactly does this look like? 559 00:25:07,247 --> 00:25:09,567 And then, bing, TikTok shops happen. 560 00:25:10,177 --> 00:25:12,817 And when it first happened, people started to talk about it, and I 561 00:25:12,817 --> 00:25:14,567 was like, What's the big deal? 562 00:25:14,567 --> 00:25:17,927 It's like Facebook shops or Instagram shops Who cares? 563 00:25:17,927 --> 00:25:19,127 What's the big deal? 564 00:25:19,377 --> 00:25:22,887 The big deal is that it's disrupting everything in the influencer world. 565 00:25:23,007 --> 00:25:24,257 That is the big deal. 566 00:25:24,507 --> 00:25:26,967 Because it's all based on performance. 567 00:25:27,167 --> 00:25:29,687 The influencers don't get paid unless they perform. 568 00:25:30,047 --> 00:25:30,597 That's it. 569 00:25:30,857 --> 00:25:32,687 That's the only possible way that they get paid. 570 00:25:33,347 --> 00:25:36,967 So when I talk about aligning incentives, TikTok Shops aligns the 571 00:25:37,297 --> 00:25:39,417 incentives absolutely perfectly. 572 00:25:39,627 --> 00:25:45,477 There is no brand sub 20 million right now that can afford to just pay for posts 573 00:25:45,497 --> 00:25:47,217 without it actually doing something. 574 00:25:47,217 --> 00:25:48,357 We cannot do that right now. 575 00:25:48,652 --> 00:25:49,532 It's not going to happen. 576 00:25:49,972 --> 00:25:54,622 And so now there's this incredible thing, and I'll get into this. 577 00:25:54,622 --> 00:25:55,202 I'd love to know. 578 00:25:55,252 --> 00:25:56,892 I've, I feel like I've just talked and talked. 579 00:25:56,892 --> 00:25:59,722 I don't know if you have any, I'm going to just stop talking for a sec. 580 00:26:00,717 --> 00:26:00,737 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 581 00:26:00,787 --> 00:26:02,357 No, I'm sucked in. 582 00:26:02,357 --> 00:26:04,337 I'm listening to you talk about about influencers. 583 00:26:04,877 --> 00:26:06,267 And I totally agree with you. 584 00:26:06,267 --> 00:26:09,467 I think this idea of misaligned incentives. 585 00:26:09,727 --> 00:26:14,517 Whether with agency, whether with influencers, I see it all the time. 586 00:26:14,857 --> 00:26:16,267 I do see it all the time. 587 00:26:16,317 --> 00:26:18,137 I was talking earlier about investing in new companies. 588 00:26:18,137 --> 00:26:19,027 That all the time as well. 589 00:26:19,027 --> 00:26:21,207 People come to you and think I've been trading for five years. 590 00:26:21,207 --> 00:26:24,327 Therefore, my company is worth a million bucks because everybody wants to make 591 00:26:24,327 --> 00:26:26,202 a million and then clear out, right? 592 00:26:27,072 --> 00:26:30,422 And you're just like, yeah, no, I don't have to tell you this, 593 00:26:30,422 --> 00:26:32,152 but no, not at any kind of level. 594 00:26:32,202 --> 00:26:35,562 And so it's interesting listening to you talk about that. 595 00:26:35,602 --> 00:26:42,592 And what I'm picking up, Jordan, is actually in your voice, a real excitement 596 00:26:42,602 --> 00:26:44,492 for TikTok shops and influencers. 597 00:26:44,972 --> 00:26:47,652 It seems like you've stumbled across into something there, which 598 00:26:47,652 --> 00:26:49,742 has really lit a spark for you. 599 00:26:51,362 --> 00:26:52,082 Jordan West: Absolutely. 600 00:26:52,352 --> 00:26:57,492 Number one at the agency, what brand wants to come and talk to us about ads? 601 00:26:57,882 --> 00:27:00,722 There are 7 trillion people who do that, right? 602 00:27:01,042 --> 00:27:02,792 I love anything that's Blue Ocean. 603 00:27:02,792 --> 00:27:04,142 I love, right? 604 00:27:04,212 --> 00:27:07,992 Anything that's new and even like our new pricing model for ads is the 605 00:27:07,992 --> 00:27:09,492 most Blue Ocean thing I can think of. 606 00:27:09,742 --> 00:27:11,922 All these agencies have to charge this huge amount. 607 00:27:11,952 --> 00:27:13,712 And what we figured out was Okay. 608 00:27:13,892 --> 00:27:15,512 How do we, and I love Alex Hermosi. 609 00:27:15,512 --> 00:27:17,772 I know, he's the big, ripped kind of guy. 610 00:27:17,782 --> 00:27:21,872 And, he's probably the most brilliant business person out there right now. 611 00:27:22,082 --> 00:27:26,972 And in hundred million dollar offers, he's talking about how do you give the 612 00:27:26,972 --> 00:27:32,512 most possible value, for the lowest price, especially when you're in a 613 00:27:32,512 --> 00:27:34,492 commodity or you're in a red ocean market. 614 00:27:34,612 --> 00:27:36,972 That's how you create blue oceans, is figuring that out. 615 00:27:36,972 --> 00:27:39,162 And so we've reinvented all of that. 616 00:27:39,162 --> 00:27:41,042 We're like, what do people actually want? 617 00:27:41,462 --> 00:27:43,412 How can we use automation in certain ways? 618 00:27:43,412 --> 00:27:46,492 How can we use all of these different tools that we have to 619 00:27:46,492 --> 00:27:48,152 create a better experience, right? 620 00:27:48,392 --> 00:27:52,582 So let's go back to TikTok shops because I'm obsessed with it right now. 621 00:27:52,732 --> 00:27:55,262 Now, am I obsessed with TikTok shops in general? 622 00:27:55,562 --> 00:28:00,037 Yes, but only because it's the first player In North America, when it comes 623 00:28:00,037 --> 00:28:04,287 to this I was chatting with a friend the other day who's got a friend, sorry, 624 00:28:04,287 --> 00:28:09,287 friend of a friend who reports to the C suite at Meta and they are going to be 625 00:28:09,287 --> 00:28:14,587 rolling out a pixel for pixel copy all of the TikTok shop experience in Q3. 626 00:28:15,032 --> 00:28:15,252 Matt Edmundson: Wow. 627 00:28:16,107 --> 00:28:19,837 Jordan West: You know that they're going to absolutely crush, right? 628 00:28:20,087 --> 00:28:22,007 So I want to be at the forefront of all this, right? 629 00:28:22,027 --> 00:28:25,177 Selfishly, like I, it's funny, like I'm going to some events and I was going 630 00:28:25,177 --> 00:28:26,467 to do a live podcast at one of them. 631 00:28:26,467 --> 00:28:29,587 And I said, dude, put me on the main stage to talk about TikTok shops because 632 00:28:29,597 --> 00:28:31,007 that's what people want to talk about. 633 00:28:31,027 --> 00:28:33,917 That's what people want to hear about because everything's changing. 634 00:28:34,027 --> 00:28:35,937 It's not the same as it used to be. 635 00:28:36,647 --> 00:28:39,627 Let me walk through why it's the most revolutionary thing 636 00:28:39,657 --> 00:28:42,927 to come to eCom since Amazon. 637 00:28:43,067 --> 00:28:46,137 I really truly believe this and I'm not just saying this because I'm like 638 00:28:46,257 --> 00:28:47,717 hyped on it or anything like that. 639 00:28:47,727 --> 00:28:51,697 I am hyped on it, but I'm, I actually believe that is the most 640 00:28:51,697 --> 00:28:53,937 revolutionary thing since Amazon. 641 00:28:54,157 --> 00:28:55,087 Let me tell you why. 642 00:28:55,642 --> 00:28:57,202 First of all, it's pay to play, right? 643 00:28:57,202 --> 00:28:58,672 It's all performance. 644 00:28:58,852 --> 00:29:01,232 That is, that number one is incredible. 645 00:29:01,752 --> 00:29:04,702 One of my core values and a core value actually we have at UpGrowth Commerce 646 00:29:04,702 --> 00:29:07,142 is we give transparency and visibility. 647 00:29:07,472 --> 00:29:08,772 TikTok has done that. 648 00:29:08,872 --> 00:29:10,072 They have done that in the back end. 649 00:29:10,072 --> 00:29:13,642 So when you go into Seller Central or Sell, Seller Center in the back end, you 650 00:29:13,642 --> 00:29:19,442 can actually see to the dollar amount how much an influencer is driven for brands. 651 00:29:20,017 --> 00:29:22,917 So you better believe that I'm going to go to the ones that have already started 652 00:29:22,917 --> 00:29:24,507 to drive revenue for brands, right? 653 00:29:25,327 --> 00:29:29,937 In what world that isn't TikTok would they open that kind of data up? 654 00:29:30,037 --> 00:29:33,547 And now Meta has to, they're going to have to when they run this, right? 655 00:29:33,597 --> 00:29:37,037 So it's not just that, let me walk through why I think it's the opposite 656 00:29:37,037 --> 00:29:38,637 funnel of what we used to do. 657 00:29:38,787 --> 00:29:42,587 What, this is what I'm proposing at UpGrowth and I will tell you, Matt, the 658 00:29:42,587 --> 00:29:46,197 amount of conversations that I am having right now with brands and the amount 659 00:29:46,197 --> 00:29:49,207 of people we cannot keep up right now with the amount of conversations we're 660 00:29:49,207 --> 00:29:53,087 having at UpGrowth about TikTok shops because this is what people, I think 661 00:29:53,087 --> 00:29:56,647 people are starting to realize, oh my gosh, this is why it's so incredible. 662 00:29:56,647 --> 00:29:59,997 I put a webinar on yesterday, I had 160 people attend. 663 00:30:00,407 --> 00:30:00,827 What? 664 00:30:01,167 --> 00:30:02,737 Since when has that ever happened? 665 00:30:02,737 --> 00:30:04,747 And on a webinar since 2013, 666 00:30:05,727 --> 00:30:05,967 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 667 00:30:06,037 --> 00:30:06,327 Yeah. 668 00:30:06,677 --> 00:30:08,537 Jordan West: like people are hungry and they're realizing, 669 00:30:08,537 --> 00:30:09,527 Oh my gosh, this is the new way. 670 00:30:09,527 --> 00:30:10,417 So let me tell you the new way. 671 00:30:10,787 --> 00:30:12,457 So it flips it completely on its head. 672 00:30:12,457 --> 00:30:13,907 So you start with TikTok shops. 673 00:30:14,167 --> 00:30:15,657 So we do a ton of outreach. 674 00:30:16,422 --> 00:30:19,212 To influencers, we're really not getting super picky. 675 00:30:19,222 --> 00:30:22,272 We're just making sure that these influencers have driven some revenue 676 00:30:22,272 --> 00:30:25,532 and they're in there, they're talking to our target demo, that's it. 677 00:30:26,622 --> 00:30:29,972 And so interestingly on the agency side, and I hope people 678 00:30:29,982 --> 00:30:32,292 understand this, it is a sales play. 679 00:30:32,422 --> 00:30:35,442 And so we did not give up this service. 680 00:30:35,682 --> 00:30:37,532 to our operations team at the agency. 681 00:30:37,752 --> 00:30:41,022 This is a sales exercise, what we're doing, because you're 682 00:30:41,022 --> 00:30:42,602 trying to sell to the influencer. 683 00:30:42,612 --> 00:30:44,882 It's not just like a matter of hey, do you want to do this product? 684 00:30:44,892 --> 00:30:45,822 Or do you want to rep this product? 685 00:30:45,842 --> 00:30:47,112 No, that's not it at all. 686 00:30:47,112 --> 00:30:50,462 It's hey, and so we've got all sorts of great, like initial messaging 687 00:30:50,472 --> 00:30:54,197 templates that we're that we've created, where it's like, Hey, Jenny, 688 00:30:54,227 --> 00:30:55,767 we think that you'd be awesome. 689 00:30:55,827 --> 00:30:59,597 This Lisa over here drove 600 sales for us the other day 690 00:30:59,687 --> 00:31:00,887 with this particular product. 691 00:31:00,917 --> 00:31:02,667 I think if you created something like this, you could 692 00:31:02,667 --> 00:31:04,057 probably do something similar. 693 00:31:04,307 --> 00:31:05,527 Do you want to work with us? 694 00:31:05,597 --> 00:31:09,167 By the way, we want to get usage rights for everything up front. 695 00:31:09,227 --> 00:31:11,197 Are you comfortable with that on TikTok? 696 00:31:11,357 --> 00:31:12,907 So on Instagram, what would people say? 697 00:31:13,777 --> 00:31:17,087 Oh, yeah, for a thousand bucks, I'll give you usage rights on TikTok. 698 00:31:17,367 --> 00:31:18,127 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 699 00:31:18,127 --> 00:31:18,537 For sure. 700 00:31:18,637 --> 00:31:19,097 Yeah, whatever. 701 00:31:19,097 --> 00:31:20,897 I'd love to be a part of whatever you're doing. 702 00:31:21,867 --> 00:31:23,107 This is the difference, right? 703 00:31:23,207 --> 00:31:25,347 They understand the value gap, right? 704 00:31:25,597 --> 00:31:27,647 Instagram influencers, there is no value gap. 705 00:31:27,647 --> 00:31:30,397 It's probably actually an opposite value gap right now 706 00:31:30,757 --> 00:31:33,297 Matt Edmundson: Do you think that's because do you think that's because 707 00:31:33,297 --> 00:31:38,077 it's a generational thing that it, I was stereotyping a little bit. 708 00:31:38,082 --> 00:31:41,287 Instagram's millennials, TikTok is Gen Z or Gen Z. 709 00:31:41,347 --> 00:31:44,037 And is it a generational mindset shift, do you think? 710 00:31:45,862 --> 00:31:46,332 Jordan West: I don't know. 711 00:31:46,492 --> 00:31:47,622 So I'm a millennial. 712 00:31:47,782 --> 00:31:52,616 And I don't know, I don't think I think like most Millennials. 713 00:31:52,616 --> 00:31:57,376 So I feel much more comfortable in the baby boomer sort of face, like the hard 714 00:31:57,376 --> 00:32:01,936 work like, no, you wait like guys, I wake up at between 330 and five every single 715 00:32:01,936 --> 00:32:04,476 morning to work because I love working. 716 00:32:04,806 --> 00:32:05,656 And I love it. 717 00:32:05,756 --> 00:32:06,636 Sorry, I don't love working. 718 00:32:06,856 --> 00:32:07,546 I love building. 719 00:32:07,756 --> 00:32:11,246 And so I don't know if that's, but what I think it is the proliferation 720 00:32:11,246 --> 00:32:14,676 of people trying to make money to help people make money as influencers. 721 00:32:14,676 --> 00:32:17,766 And so they tell them, know your worth, know how much you can charge. 722 00:32:17,766 --> 00:32:19,636 And it's no, your worth, it's zero. 723 00:32:19,886 --> 00:32:21,756 Your worth is zero when it comes to this. 724 00:32:21,966 --> 00:32:24,466 Barely even, I don't even know if I want to give you a product. 725 00:32:24,596 --> 00:32:26,976 That's what your actual value to the brand is. 726 00:32:27,136 --> 00:32:28,016 And I know that's harsh. 727 00:32:28,026 --> 00:32:29,786 Don't use that one as a clip here. 728 00:32:29,886 --> 00:32:30,886 No, you're worth a zero, 729 00:32:36,696 --> 00:32:39,746 but really you're worth is whatever you can generate in 730 00:32:39,746 --> 00:32:41,696 revenue for a brand brands. 731 00:32:42,231 --> 00:32:46,891 Do not need right now, more awareness, they need sales. 732 00:32:46,991 --> 00:32:49,191 That's what brands need in 2024. 733 00:32:49,341 --> 00:32:51,461 So I think that's really important to note. 734 00:32:51,491 --> 00:32:53,031 And that's what TikTok Shops has done, right? 735 00:32:53,031 --> 00:32:57,541 It's said hey, you're gonna make money as a percentage of what you drive. 736 00:32:58,051 --> 00:33:00,811 So what ends up happening is people are actually getting incredibly creative. 737 00:33:00,811 --> 00:33:03,161 And I think that some people are really scared. 738 00:33:03,171 --> 00:33:05,871 They're like, oh no it's ruining TikTok, right? 739 00:33:05,881 --> 00:33:10,711 For me I think TikTok was ruined when it was created, so it's this 740 00:33:10,711 --> 00:33:14,471 mythical beast that somehow keeps you on there for hours at a time 741 00:33:14,471 --> 00:33:17,721 and has somehow become the biggest search engine in North America now. 742 00:33:17,721 --> 00:33:23,781 And it's, let's not get into all of that, but how, like, how do you 743 00:33:23,791 --> 00:33:27,676 leverage These people they're going to be on TikTok no matter what. 744 00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:31,376 But sorry, let's go back to people thought or think that what's happening 745 00:33:31,376 --> 00:33:34,566 is oh, it's just like a bunch of like terrible shopping ads that are 746 00:33:34,566 --> 00:33:36,346 showing up all the time in my feed. 747 00:33:37,086 --> 00:33:37,876 Yes. 748 00:33:38,111 --> 00:33:39,401 But people are going to get better. 749 00:33:39,401 --> 00:33:42,581 I saw this great ad the other day for a product called Lemmy. 750 00:33:42,931 --> 00:33:46,201 It's like a sleep gummy and the it wasn't even an ad, it was just a post. 751 00:33:46,201 --> 00:33:47,011 It had 2. 752 00:33:47,011 --> 00:33:48,021 3 million likes on it. 753 00:33:48,021 --> 00:33:49,531 I don't even know how many plays it had on it. 754 00:33:49,901 --> 00:33:54,051 And it was the most brilliant non ad I have seen in my life. 755 00:33:54,051 --> 00:33:55,761 And people, creators are going to get better, right? 756 00:33:55,761 --> 00:33:56,601 They're going to get better. 757 00:33:56,601 --> 00:33:59,081 They're going to create content that's I watched that three or four times, 758 00:33:59,121 --> 00:34:02,811 and I was like, this is brilliant, and then I thought, huh, I've been having 759 00:34:02,811 --> 00:34:06,631 a bit of an issue sleeping recently, I should think about that one it was a 760 00:34:06,631 --> 00:34:10,131 hilarious ad, maybe I'll just try it out, I have not purchased it yet, I actually 761 00:34:10,141 --> 00:34:12,931 think I couldn't get it in Canada, I think that was the issue which is very 762 00:34:12,931 --> 00:34:16,891 common by the way, everyone, not being able to get things in our communist 763 00:34:16,891 --> 00:34:21,211 society we have here just kidding, I love Canada if you're listening to this. 764 00:34:21,966 --> 00:34:23,436 Don't blacklist me or anything 765 00:34:23,801 --> 00:34:25,241 Matt Edmundson: no, come on to this podcast because I've 766 00:34:25,241 --> 00:34:26,301 got some questions for you. 767 00:34:26,516 --> 00:34:28,646 Justin, I really have, but anyway, 768 00:34:28,836 --> 00:34:33,126 Jordan West: yeah, I think his approval rating right now is 20%, 769 00:34:33,376 --> 00:34:34,156 Matt Edmundson: is it that high? 770 00:34:34,216 --> 00:34:36,006 I just I, yeah, okay. 771 00:34:37,656 --> 00:34:38,216 Jordan West: so anyway, I 772 00:34:38,296 --> 00:34:39,966 Matt Edmundson: Him and Boris Johnson yeah, 773 00:34:40,386 --> 00:34:41,876 Jordan West: yeah at least he was funny, 774 00:34:41,896 --> 00:34:44,036 Matt Edmundson: That's true yeah, he did give you a few laughs along the way. 775 00:34:44,231 --> 00:34:44,591 Yeah, 776 00:34:44,746 --> 00:34:47,751 Jordan West: yeah this is, So this is the way now, let me 777 00:34:47,751 --> 00:34:48,971 tell you how to leverage it. 778 00:34:48,971 --> 00:34:50,691 Cause some people are like what if I don't get any sales on it? 779 00:34:50,691 --> 00:34:54,541 I'm like, it doesn't matter because we're getting usage rights, right? 780 00:34:54,591 --> 00:34:57,911 So let's just say you're obviously going to get sales on TikTok shop, right? 781 00:34:57,911 --> 00:35:00,951 But even if you don't get a mass amount of sales, you start to 782 00:35:00,951 --> 00:35:02,831 know what drives traffic, right? 783 00:35:02,831 --> 00:35:06,521 And so now you don't have to guess on your ad creative because you 784 00:35:06,631 --> 00:35:08,671 already know what works, right? 785 00:35:08,671 --> 00:35:13,251 What drove traffic on TikTok shop is going to drive traffic on. 786 00:35:13,666 --> 00:35:17,676 Instagram, on Facebook, on YouTube, all of these things and these hooks 787 00:35:17,676 --> 00:35:21,086 and these triggers are what will drive traffic in other places. 788 00:35:21,086 --> 00:35:24,426 And so the virtuous cycle that we have is we use this tool called Refunnel. 789 00:35:24,426 --> 00:35:27,246 There's another one called Archive that essentially just gathers all of 790 00:35:27,246 --> 00:35:28,966 this so that we can download all of it. 791 00:35:28,986 --> 00:35:31,646 We don't need to worry about any of the usage rates because 792 00:35:31,646 --> 00:35:32,886 we've already got usage rates. 793 00:35:33,036 --> 00:35:35,276 We don't work with anyone that we don't get usage rates for. 794 00:35:35,531 --> 00:35:36,791 We don't even send product out to them. 795 00:35:37,191 --> 00:35:38,751 So now we know that. 796 00:35:38,751 --> 00:35:42,791 So our team goes into refunnel, downloads these, we then first 797 00:35:42,801 --> 00:35:46,331 take them and repurpose them on the brand's TikTok page, right? 798 00:35:46,331 --> 00:35:48,001 So we'll take it, we'll add different music. 799 00:35:48,001 --> 00:35:49,151 We'll maybe add a different hook. 800 00:35:49,321 --> 00:35:52,041 We'll add there's a fun little one that you can do where you add like 801 00:35:52,041 --> 00:35:54,861 some typing at the beginning and that really actually hooks people. 802 00:35:54,861 --> 00:35:57,851 So like a black screen with some white typing or white and black, usually I 803 00:35:57,861 --> 00:35:59,891 think black and white is actually the one that works a little bit better. 804 00:35:59,891 --> 00:36:02,601 So we'll just repurpose these videos and they'll go viral again. 805 00:36:02,851 --> 00:36:05,851 They'll go viral again because there's some little tweak, but it's the 806 00:36:05,861 --> 00:36:08,711 messaging that works and then we'll send them to TikTok shop that way. 807 00:36:08,981 --> 00:36:12,611 Then we'll take it and we'll start to use these ads on all the different 808 00:36:12,611 --> 00:36:16,291 platforms to start to drive traffic for them to their direct consumer site or 809 00:36:16,291 --> 00:36:19,831 maybe to their Amazon page, whatever their, business objective is at the time. 810 00:36:20,201 --> 00:36:21,571 And it's this beautiful. 811 00:36:22,161 --> 00:36:25,431 Way that, for us at the agency, we figured out, Oh my gosh, we've 812 00:36:25,431 --> 00:36:26,731 aligned our incentives completely. 813 00:36:26,731 --> 00:36:29,491 And I, I also tell people like, we've got some brands that are going 814 00:36:29,491 --> 00:36:32,841 to do, three or 400, 000 a month and we're doing a performance deal. 815 00:36:32,841 --> 00:36:35,401 And I'm like, don't worry, let's redo the contract. 816 00:36:35,421 --> 00:36:37,651 We don't want you paying us 50 grand a month because we're 817 00:36:37,651 --> 00:36:38,851 on a performance deal, right? 818 00:36:38,851 --> 00:36:42,441 I also don't think that's the greatest thing in the world because I do understand 819 00:36:42,441 --> 00:36:44,331 at the end of the day, then they look at that and they're like I could 820 00:36:44,331 --> 00:36:46,796 hire eight people to do that, right? 821 00:36:46,796 --> 00:36:50,651 So we're constantly trying to figure out what is that mix where we want to be? 822 00:36:50,811 --> 00:36:53,721 And again, transparency and visibility is so important for us. 823 00:36:54,191 --> 00:36:58,091 And so that's what's working right now on TikTok shops. 824 00:36:58,091 --> 00:37:00,881 And that's why I think that it's something that, and I don't even 825 00:37:00,881 --> 00:37:04,421 think people realize how much it's going to change behavior. 826 00:37:04,601 --> 00:37:06,531 Behavior will be changed on all of these. 827 00:37:06,531 --> 00:37:09,881 There's like millions of influencers that don't realize that they're 828 00:37:09,881 --> 00:37:11,101 being disrupted right now. 829 00:37:11,311 --> 00:37:13,851 That they are, they no longer have a job. 830 00:37:14,201 --> 00:37:17,581 They'll realize in about six months or a year when this all 831 00:37:17,581 --> 00:37:19,071 happens on Instagram, right? 832 00:37:19,131 --> 00:37:20,991 They'll realize and Oh, I have to change, right? 833 00:37:20,991 --> 00:37:22,591 And we always have to change, right? 834 00:37:22,731 --> 00:37:24,821 But this was a bubble and the bubble is over. 835 00:37:25,526 --> 00:37:25,876 Matt Edmundson: yeah. 836 00:37:25,956 --> 00:37:26,896 That's super cool. 837 00:37:27,246 --> 00:37:30,356 What kind of things do you think are working well in TikTok shops? 838 00:37:30,356 --> 00:37:32,506 What kind of products do you see working well on there? 839 00:37:33,006 --> 00:37:36,216 Or is it a case of, if you sell a couch, you can sell it on TikTok shop? 840 00:37:36,596 --> 00:37:38,466 Or are there specific things that we should think about? 841 00:37:39,341 --> 00:37:40,711 Jordan West: that's, yeah that's a really good question. 842 00:37:40,711 --> 00:37:44,051 So I would say that higher AOV products probably are not 843 00:37:44,061 --> 00:37:45,221 going to work nearly as well. 844 00:37:45,221 --> 00:37:46,521 Now we have some brands that we work with. 845 00:37:46,521 --> 00:37:49,570 We have a trampoline brand that we work with a 3, 000 AOV. 846 00:37:49,601 --> 00:37:51,291 And we're testing on TikTok shops right now. 847 00:37:51,291 --> 00:37:52,881 We have not had great success so far. 848 00:37:53,101 --> 00:37:55,511 Brands in the 50 to 100 AOV range. 849 00:37:55,561 --> 00:37:57,671 Oh, they work incredibly well. 850 00:37:57,871 --> 00:37:58,921 It has to be something novel. 851 00:37:58,921 --> 00:38:00,541 I actually talked to the cool apparel brand yesterday 852 00:38:00,541 --> 00:38:01,591 and they have this product. 853 00:38:01,881 --> 00:38:04,841 And they're not working with us yet, but we're in the midst of 854 00:38:04,871 --> 00:38:05,741 potentially working with them. 855 00:38:05,741 --> 00:38:08,721 They have this really cool product that is like heat activated. 856 00:38:08,751 --> 00:38:12,271 So you put it on say you put your hand on the chest and now you see this handprint. 857 00:38:12,571 --> 00:38:14,501 Really cool novel kind of stuff like that 858 00:38:14,601 --> 00:38:17,731 Matt Edmundson: Oh, you mean the global hyper colour t shirts from yesteryear? 859 00:38:18,291 --> 00:38:18,751 Do you remember 860 00:38:18,931 --> 00:38:19,791 Jordan West: yeah, totally. 861 00:38:20,051 --> 00:38:22,981 Yeah, this is a different brand that's more like in the kind of streetwear 862 00:38:23,311 --> 00:38:27,121 world, but really cool kind of stuff like that works incredibly well. 863 00:38:27,291 --> 00:38:29,301 Really anything that you can tell a story about, right? 864 00:38:29,331 --> 00:38:32,051 As long as you can tell a story around the brand and it's not a commodity brands. 865 00:38:32,791 --> 00:38:33,961 It's not going to work, right? 866 00:38:34,201 --> 00:38:37,761 You have to need, you need to be able to tell a story and get someone to do that. 867 00:38:37,901 --> 00:38:40,821 A quick story I want to tell you, I had a podcast guest on Secrets of Scaling 868 00:38:40,821 --> 00:38:45,201 your eCommerce brand the other day and they were they were in an airport or 869 00:38:45,201 --> 00:38:48,781 sorry the bridge in between getting onto the plane and everyone had stopped. 870 00:38:48,781 --> 00:38:51,191 I guess people were putting their luggage up and he looked and there 871 00:38:51,191 --> 00:38:54,641 was like a 20, 20 to 25 year old girl in front of him and he looked at her 872 00:38:54,641 --> 00:38:56,111 phone and she was scrolling TikTok. 873 00:38:56,651 --> 00:38:57,641 Suddenly she stopped. 874 00:38:58,111 --> 00:39:04,331 And she saw this TikTok shop post, went in, and purchased it in 30 seconds. 875 00:39:06,041 --> 00:39:07,061 That is the power. 876 00:39:07,101 --> 00:39:09,781 That is the power, and that will happen on Instagram. 877 00:39:10,111 --> 00:39:14,831 And then 3 billion people will be exposed to this new world. 878 00:39:15,096 --> 00:39:18,456 And so figuring this out now I think is really important and this is why 879 00:39:18,896 --> 00:39:23,276 160 people would show up for a business webinar, because it's, there's a new 880 00:39:23,286 --> 00:39:26,806 world that's happening right now and I'm so happy to be, and this is why 881 00:39:26,806 --> 00:39:31,406 I'm waking up at 5am every morning because I'm so pumped about what this 882 00:39:31,406 --> 00:39:33,996 new world looks like, but it takes a lot of work to get there, right? 883 00:39:34,026 --> 00:39:35,826 And I hope it's helpful for people. 884 00:39:35,826 --> 00:39:36,436 I really do. 885 00:39:36,436 --> 00:39:38,476 And I'm going to continue to talk about it more and more. 886 00:39:38,696 --> 00:39:42,396 It's funny, a millennial guy who has no idea what to do on TikTok, 887 00:39:42,396 --> 00:39:45,046 and I'm talking about this stuff, but I just see the opportunity. 888 00:39:45,616 --> 00:39:48,576 And don't worry, guys, I've hired a 20 year old absolute. 889 00:39:49,236 --> 00:39:53,256 Donner right now, who is taking care of all of the strategy for me and doing 890 00:39:53,256 --> 00:39:54,836 all of the stuff in the background. 891 00:39:55,196 --> 00:39:56,676 So don't worry about that. 892 00:39:57,136 --> 00:39:57,886 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 893 00:39:57,886 --> 00:39:58,896 That's the way it should be. 894 00:39:58,926 --> 00:39:59,696 That's the way it should be. 895 00:40:00,006 --> 00:40:03,276 Jordan, listen I'm aware of time and I'm aware that I'm getting sucked 896 00:40:03,276 --> 00:40:04,946 into this very deep conversation. 897 00:40:04,946 --> 00:40:07,306 I've taken two pages of notes already. 898 00:40:07,376 --> 00:40:09,056 We've got a lot of notes, which is good. 899 00:40:09,176 --> 00:40:13,926 And so if people want to reach you, if they want to connect with you, if they 900 00:40:13,926 --> 00:40:17,906 want to find out more about the agency, the podcast, maybe not at three 30 in 901 00:40:17,906 --> 00:40:20,486 the morning, but if they want to do that, what's the best way to do that? 902 00:40:21,826 --> 00:40:22,076 Jordan West: Yeah. 903 00:40:22,126 --> 00:40:24,106 Podcast is Secrets To Scaling Your eCommerce Brand. 904 00:40:24,106 --> 00:40:25,906 I'm talking a lot about this over there. 905 00:40:25,956 --> 00:40:27,086 The agency is upgrowthcommerce. 906 00:40:27,726 --> 00:40:27,966 com. 907 00:40:27,966 --> 00:40:29,846 If you just go there and put a contact form in. 908 00:40:29,846 --> 00:40:30,236 All right. 909 00:40:30,236 --> 00:40:31,356 Now our website, guys. 910 00:40:32,496 --> 00:40:35,436 It's a classic agency website oh yeah, don't look at it for three or four 911 00:40:35,436 --> 00:40:38,436 years because we just don't, we're just busy working on everything else. 912 00:40:38,906 --> 00:40:39,096 So 913 00:40:40,186 --> 00:40:40,416 Matt Edmundson: Like the 914 00:40:40,446 --> 00:40:43,206 Jordan West: just a horrible representation of, yeah. 915 00:40:44,136 --> 00:40:46,646 And then I'm really active on LinkedIn and Twitter all the time, 916 00:40:46,646 --> 00:40:49,156 so if you just search Jordan West on there, Jordan West Marketer or 917 00:40:49,156 --> 00:40:50,846 something like that you will find me. 918 00:40:50,846 --> 00:40:55,676 I am constantly trying to you Divine out what I am learning and try to 919 00:40:55,686 --> 00:40:59,526 communicate it in a succinct sort of way that people can just take and learn. 920 00:40:59,526 --> 00:41:02,556 My very favorite thing is when people are bookmarking and sharing stuff around. 921 00:41:02,596 --> 00:41:04,776 That is all I want is to be useful in this world. 922 00:41:04,776 --> 00:41:07,296 So if you guys want to follow me over there, that would be great. 923 00:41:07,326 --> 00:41:09,106 And thank you so much for having me on. 924 00:41:09,766 --> 00:41:11,496 Matt Edmundson: Oh no, it's been an absolute treat, man. 925 00:41:11,496 --> 00:41:12,486 I've really enjoyed it. 926 00:41:12,486 --> 00:41:12,596 I'm. 927 00:41:12,986 --> 00:41:13,506 It's interesting. 928 00:41:13,506 --> 00:41:15,996 It's very timely for us because we're playing around with 929 00:41:15,996 --> 00:41:17,266 TikTok shops at the moment. 930 00:41:17,266 --> 00:41:20,216 And so listening to you talk, I'm yeah, there's a question that 931 00:41:20,216 --> 00:41:21,596 you caused me to think about. 932 00:41:21,596 --> 00:41:23,056 I've not noted it down. 933 00:41:23,056 --> 00:41:25,446 I'm going to go talk to Jen about that tomorrow, so it's 934 00:41:25,446 --> 00:41:26,606 been great having you on. 935 00:41:26,606 --> 00:41:28,806 So super stoked, man, to finally get you on the show. 936 00:41:29,506 --> 00:41:33,576 Thanks for being so great in terms of value and really appreciate it, man. 937 00:41:33,636 --> 00:41:34,216 Genuinely, it's 938 00:41:34,226 --> 00:41:34,996 Jordan West: Appreciate you. 939 00:41:35,346 --> 00:41:35,816 Thank you. 940 00:41:36,386 --> 00:41:37,056 Matt Edmundson: There you go. 941 00:41:37,136 --> 00:41:40,046 What another fantastic conversation. 942 00:41:40,076 --> 00:41:42,876 Huge thanks again to Jordan for joining me today. 943 00:41:43,256 --> 00:41:46,896 Also, a big shout out to today's show sponsor, the eCommerce Cohort. 944 00:41:46,906 --> 00:41:49,631 Remember to check them out at eCommerce Cohort. 945 00:41:49,971 --> 00:41:50,361 com. 946 00:41:50,691 --> 00:41:51,811 And I will see you in there. 947 00:41:51,821 --> 00:41:54,841 Also be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast wherever you get your podcasts 948 00:41:54,881 --> 00:41:59,681 from, because we've got yet more great conversations lined up and I 949 00:41:59,691 --> 00:42:01,991 don't want you to miss any of them. 950 00:42:02,231 --> 00:42:06,141 And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. 951 00:42:06,421 --> 00:42:07,761 You are awesome. 952 00:42:07,841 --> 00:42:09,391 Yes, you are created awesome. 953 00:42:09,401 --> 00:42:11,741 It's just a burden you've got to bear. 954 00:42:11,841 --> 00:42:12,881 Jordan's got to bear it. 955 00:42:13,221 --> 00:42:14,071 I've got to bear it. 956 00:42:14,511 --> 00:42:15,471 You've got to bear it as well. 957 00:42:15,831 --> 00:42:19,221 Now eCommerce Podcast is produced by PodJunction. 958 00:42:19,231 --> 00:42:22,571 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 959 00:42:22,961 --> 00:42:27,011 The team that makes this show possible is the beautiful and talented 960 00:42:27,031 --> 00:42:28,691 Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak. 961 00:42:29,051 --> 00:42:31,271 Our theme music was written by Josh Edmundson. 962 00:42:31,541 --> 00:42:35,661 And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, 963 00:42:36,031 --> 00:42:38,491 Head to the website ecommercepodcast. 964 00:42:38,521 --> 00:42:41,701 net where, like I said, you can sign up to the newsletter if 965 00:42:41,701 --> 00:42:43,091 you haven't done so already. 966 00:42:43,591 --> 00:42:47,431 So that's it from me, that's it from Jordan. 967 00:42:47,661 --> 00:42:49,511 Thank you so much for joining us. 968 00:42:49,751 --> 00:42:52,721 Have a fantastic time fantastic week, wherever you are in the world. 969 00:42:52,901 --> 00:42:53,751 I'll see you next time. 970 00:42:53,791 --> 00:42:54,281 Bye for now.