1 00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:03,540 Introduction Voiceover: You are listening to Season Six of 2 00:00:03,540 --> 00:00:04,620 Future Ecologies. 3 00:00:08,620 --> 00:00:11,140 Elizabeth Azzuz: I, as a four year old, got caught playing 4 00:00:11,140 --> 00:00:14,680 with matches by my grandfather, my Karuk grandfather, and he 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,980 decided that I needed to learn my responsibilities to the 6 00:00:17,980 --> 00:00:23,260 mother if I thought I could play with fire. And so here started 7 00:00:23,260 --> 00:00:28,660 my journey. I have always burned with my family, pretty much 8 00:00:28,705 --> 00:00:33,865 rogue or illegally, you would say, just because that was how 9 00:00:33,865 --> 00:00:36,325 we were able to maintain our gathering grounds and our 10 00:00:36,325 --> 00:00:40,165 hunting grounds and our food sources and materials that our 11 00:00:40,165 --> 00:00:45,505 women needed. And so I learned that fire was a tool, not a toy, 12 00:00:46,345 --> 00:00:50,185 and that fire gives us our foods and our medicines, and it 13 00:00:50,185 --> 00:00:54,670 purifies our water. You know, it helps all living beings in the 14 00:00:54,670 --> 00:00:59,770 forest and in the rivers. You know, out there, you're taught 15 00:00:59,770 --> 00:01:03,790 to fear everything. Here we're taught to live with everything. 16 00:01:08,350 --> 00:01:09,070 Adam Huggins: Hi Mendel. 17 00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:10,930 Mendel Skulski: Hey, Adam. Who was that? 18 00:01:11,290 --> 00:01:13,975 Adam Huggins: That was Elizabeth. I was interviewing 19 00:01:13,975 --> 00:01:18,295 her in her fire engine. But we'll get to all that. Mendel, I 20 00:01:18,295 --> 00:01:22,375 am so freaking excited to tell you about what I've been up to. 21 00:01:23,155 --> 00:01:24,175 Mendel Skulski: What have you been up to? 22 00:01:25,075 --> 00:01:28,375 Adam Huggins: Oh, ever since you and I first started this 23 00:01:28,375 --> 00:01:32,035 podcast, we have been, I think it's fair to say, a little bit 24 00:01:32,035 --> 00:01:33,115 obsessed with fire. 25 00:01:33,175 --> 00:01:36,760 Mendel Skulski: A little bit?! We've done, like five episodes 26 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:40,388 Adam Huggins: That's right, the very first pilot episode that we 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:37,780 on fire... so far. 28 00:01:40,470 --> 00:01:44,783 made together was all about fire. Since then, we have 29 00:01:44,864 --> 00:01:49,340 interviewed Indigenous Fire Keepers, permaculturalists, 30 00:01:49,421 --> 00:01:51,700 researchers, firefighters... 31 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:54,460 Mendel Skulski: Rogue landowners who refuse to evacuate. 32 00:01:54,460 --> 00:01:57,520 Adam Huggins: And we've visited areas that have been burned 33 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,580 intentionally. We've visited areas that have been burned 34 00:02:00,820 --> 00:02:04,705 unintentionally in catastrophic wildfires. I feel like we've 35 00:02:04,705 --> 00:02:09,985 done just about everything except actually participate in 36 00:02:09,985 --> 00:02:11,605 lighting some of those fires ourselves. 37 00:02:11,665 --> 00:02:14,185 Mendel Skulski: Today's the day! Enough talk, more walk. 38 00:02:15,265 --> 00:02:15,985 Adam Huggins: Exactly. 39 00:02:15,985 --> 00:02:18,205 Mendel Skulski: So how are we going to make that happen? 40 00:02:18,205 --> 00:02:21,985 Adam Huggins: So to be honest with you, even after having all 41 00:02:21,985 --> 00:02:24,610 these conversations, I was thinking about fire in a pretty 42 00:02:24,610 --> 00:02:28,810 theoretical way. And then this opportunity came up. I was 43 00:02:28,810 --> 00:02:33,850 invited to apply for this brand new experimental artist in 44 00:02:33,850 --> 00:02:37,870 residency program that was offered from a place called the 45 00:02:37,870 --> 00:02:41,050 Confluence Lab at the University of Idaho, Mendel. 46 00:02:41,050 --> 00:02:41,530 Mendel Skulski: Okay? 47 00:02:41,530 --> 00:02:45,130 Adam Huggins: I applied, and surprisingly, was accepted. 48 00:02:45,550 --> 00:02:46,735 Mendel Skulski: Hey, you're an artist! 49 00:02:47,095 --> 00:02:50,695 Adam Huggins: Yeah, podcasters are artists, right? 50 00:02:50,755 --> 00:02:51,355 Mendel Skulski: We are. 51 00:02:51,415 --> 00:02:55,615 Adam Huggins: So I became one of the 10 inaugural Artists in 52 00:02:55,615 --> 00:02:56,095 Fire. 53 00:02:56,095 --> 00:02:56,995 Mendel Skulski: Congratulations. 54 00:02:57,475 --> 00:03:01,195 Adam Huggins: Thank you. Appreciate that. That meant that 55 00:03:01,255 --> 00:03:06,055 I had to get myself on the fire line, and quick. So I took a 56 00:03:06,055 --> 00:03:10,315 handful of online courses with strange acronyms and bought 57 00:03:10,315 --> 00:03:14,920 myself a very expensive new pair of leather boots, did a field 58 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:19,240 day and pack test. and that's how I found myself standing in 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,560 the middle of a narrow, one lane road at the top of a seemingly 60 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,940 vertical slope covered in dense brush, and wondering to myself 61 00:03:28,060 --> 00:03:31,060 just how in the hell we were gonna pull this burn off. 62 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,940 Dylan Stevens: What's your burn experience like? 63 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:34,780 Adam Huggins: None. 64 00:03:35,140 --> 00:03:35,380 Dylan Stevens: Cool. 65 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:40,600 Adam Huggins: I am amazed at how like steep this site is, and how 66 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,240 much like material there is still on the ground. 67 00:03:43,660 --> 00:03:45,220 Dylan Stevens: You're like, Whoa, there's a lot of fuels on 68 00:03:45,220 --> 00:03:46,480 the ground, and it's steep. 69 00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:49,060 Adam Huggins: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my impression. 70 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,240 Dylan Stevens: Yup. Welcome to the Klamath. 71 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,765 Mendel Skulski: The Klamath! We passed through there back in 72 00:03:55,765 --> 00:03:58,225 season one. It is... steep. 73 00:03:59,725 --> 00:04:03,445 Adam Huggins: It's very hilly, yes. When I lived there for a 74 00:04:03,445 --> 00:04:07,705 year, way back when, I was up river in Karuk territory. But 75 00:04:07,705 --> 00:04:10,645 this time, I went down river — for the very first time, 76 00:04:10,645 --> 00:04:15,085 actually — to Yurok territory, which is near the mouth of the 77 00:04:15,085 --> 00:04:19,330 Klamath River, where it lets out into the Pacific Ocean. It's 78 00:04:19,330 --> 00:04:24,310 about as rural and rugged as it gets, twisting, unpaved roads, 79 00:04:24,370 --> 00:04:27,610 scattered settlements and mountainous terrain. The 80 00:04:27,610 --> 00:04:32,050 hillsides are steep but green. They're covered in Douglas fir 81 00:04:32,050 --> 00:04:37,810 trees. The river is beautiful and wild because, very recently, 82 00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:41,110 the last remaining dams were removed. That's a story for 83 00:04:41,110 --> 00:04:45,295 another day, but an incredible one. And so what you're gonna 84 00:04:45,295 --> 00:04:49,975 hear in this episode is sort of a medley of voices of all of the 85 00:04:49,975 --> 00:04:52,795 different people I spoke to while I was there, the crew 86 00:04:52,795 --> 00:04:56,395 members who are bringing good fire back to the land in this 87 00:04:56,395 --> 00:04:57,115 part of the world. 88 00:04:57,415 --> 00:04:58,495 That's pretty steep, man... 89 00:04:58,555 --> 00:04:59,035 Rick O'Rourke: Yeah. 90 00:04:59,035 --> 00:04:59,995 Adam Huggins: We're gonna burn this? 91 00:05:00,055 --> 00:05:01,435 Rick O'Rourke: Yeah, this is the black. 92 00:05:02,215 --> 00:05:03,235 Adam Huggins: Holy smoke. 93 00:05:03,235 --> 00:05:08,140 And you know what? Mendel, we burned that slope.Aand then we 94 00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:10,900 burned 30 acres over the next three days. 95 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:11,440 Mendel Skulski: Hell yeah. 96 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,140 Adam Huggins: From Future Ecologies, the sixth entry in 97 00:05:14,140 --> 00:05:18,760 our seemingly never ending series On Fire. This is Out of 98 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,620 the Green, Into the Black 99 00:05:26,420 --> 00:05:29,600 Introduction Voiceover: Broadcasting from the unceded, shared and 100 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,140 asserted territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and 101 00:05:33,140 --> 00:05:38,660 Tsleil-Waututh, this is Future Ecologies – exploring the shape 102 00:05:38,660 --> 00:06:08,285 of our world through ecology, design, and sound. 103 00:06:08,285 --> 00:06:11,690 Adam Huggins: Okay, so a little bit of background. The Cultural 104 00:06:11,690 --> 00:06:16,250 Fire Management Council, or the CFMC, is a Yurok-led, 105 00:06:16,610 --> 00:06:19,790 community-based nonprofit organization with a stated 106 00:06:19,790 --> 00:06:23,210 mission to facilitate the practice of cultural burning on 107 00:06:23,210 --> 00:06:26,570 the Yurok reservation and ancestral lands, which will lead 108 00:06:26,570 --> 00:06:30,290 to a healthier ecosystem for all plants and animals, long term 109 00:06:30,290 --> 00:06:33,635 fire protection for residents, and provide a platform that will 110 00:06:33,635 --> 00:06:37,175 in turn support the traditional hunting and gathering activities 111 00:06:37,295 --> 00:06:38,075 of Yurok. 112 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,080 Robert McConnell: The objective is just to restore fire to this 113 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,940 place, right? This is the home of Rick's people and many others 114 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,660 of the Morek village here, just right up this way. Right, Rick? 115 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:51,140 Rick O'Rourke: Yeah. 116 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,780 Adam Huggins: this is Rick O'Rourke. He was around since 117 00:06:53,780 --> 00:06:57,320 the very beginning of the CFMC. He's an old hand, and we were 118 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:58,880 burning on his family's land. 119 00:06:59,060 --> 00:07:00,440 What'd you call it? Morek? 120 00:07:00,620 --> 00:07:01,340 Rick O'Rourke: Morek, yeah. 121 00:07:01,340 --> 00:07:02,885 Adam Huggins: And that was the village site? 122 00:07:02,945 --> 00:07:05,825 Rick O'Rourke: Yes. Bones of my ancestors from the beginning of 123 00:07:05,825 --> 00:07:06,365 time are there. 124 00:07:07,745 --> 00:07:10,925 Annelia Norris: It means a lot to me to be able to burn the 125 00:07:10,925 --> 00:07:11,765 place where I live. 126 00:07:11,765 --> 00:07:14,285 Adam Huggins: You said we're gonna burn around your place? 127 00:07:14,645 --> 00:07:15,785 Annelia Norris: Yeah, tomorrow, I guess. 128 00:07:15,785 --> 00:07:16,985 Adam Huggins: Yeah. Is that right? Like, just your 129 00:07:16,985 --> 00:07:19,325 neighborhood, or, like, literally, like, where your 130 00:07:19,325 --> 00:07:19,745 house is? 131 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:21,340 Annelia Norris: Robert said in my backyard. 132 00:07:21,820 --> 00:07:23,920 Isabel Guerra: There's no other crew like the one that we have 133 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,900 here and that we're building here with cultural Fire 134 00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:26,800 Management Council. 135 00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:30,400 Amanaka Yancey: I've grown up in fire here. Now that I've gone 136 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,280 out on wildfires and like burned with other prescribed burn 137 00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:39,280 crews, I realize like, how freaking special this is, and 138 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,460 also how vastly different, like burning objectives can be. 139 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:45,805 Adam Huggins: Yurok territory is like everywhere else in North 140 00:07:45,805 --> 00:07:51,145 America, in that Indigenous stewardship of landscapes was 141 00:07:51,325 --> 00:07:56,245 criminalized for generations. California banned Indigenous 142 00:07:56,245 --> 00:07:58,345 cultural burning in 1850 143 00:07:58,585 --> 00:08:01,465 Elizabeth Azzuz: I was raised to learn that the red and green 144 00:08:01,465 --> 00:08:03,625 trucks probably wouldn't shoot a child, 145 00:08:03,985 --> 00:08:05,680 Adam Huggins: The red and green trucks being those of the 146 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,370 California Department of Forestry and Fire Prevention and 147 00:08:09,370 --> 00:08:11,710 of the National Forest Service, respectively. 148 00:08:11,830 --> 00:08:15,970 Elizabeth Azzuz: But they would shoot or arrest adults for using 149 00:08:15,970 --> 00:08:16,390 fire. 150 00:08:16,810 --> 00:08:19,750 Adam Huggins: And it wasn't until well into the last century 151 00:08:20,170 --> 00:08:25,030 that burning became a practice that would not potentially get 152 00:08:25,030 --> 00:08:28,161 you killed, and I think that's just something that's really 153 00:08:28,161 --> 00:08:30,235 important to recognize. People put their lives on the line to 154 00:08:30,235 --> 00:08:33,355 keep this knowledge alive so that their descendants would be 155 00:08:33,355 --> 00:08:36,115 able to steward their territory as intended. 156 00:08:36,115 --> 00:08:38,875 Elizabeth Azzuz: We're just here to take care of the land, take 157 00:08:38,875 --> 00:08:39,835 care of the people. 158 00:08:40,855 --> 00:08:45,535 Jordan Spannaus: Restoring our land how it used to be before we 159 00:08:45,535 --> 00:08:46,855 weren't allowed to burn. 160 00:08:47,455 --> 00:08:50,275 Adam Huggins: One thing that they've been able to learn from 161 00:08:50,335 --> 00:08:53,560 comparing historical aerial photographs with what things 162 00:08:53,560 --> 00:09:01,420 look like now is that they have lost something like 96% of their 163 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:03,100 open prairie ecosystems. 164 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,880 Rick O'Rourke: Well, with no fire for 130 years, the 165 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,720 encroachment of the conifers onto our prairies, it just 166 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:17,425 happens fast. As well as the Forest Service and agencies like 167 00:09:17,425 --> 00:09:24,625 that having them planted with trees and the subsequent removal 168 00:09:24,625 --> 00:09:28,825 of the porcupines, which one of their main staples is the little 169 00:09:28,825 --> 00:09:29,305 firs. 170 00:09:30,325 --> 00:09:33,205 Adam Huggins: Oh, so the porcupines help keep the firs 171 00:09:33,205 --> 00:09:33,505 down. 172 00:09:33,505 --> 00:09:35,725 Rick O'Rourke: Yeah, that help with the encroachment. 173 00:09:35,905 --> 00:09:36,325 Adam Huggins: Really? 174 00:09:36,325 --> 00:09:36,925 Rick O'Rourke: Yeah. 175 00:09:37,150 --> 00:09:37,870 Adam Huggins: They eat them? 176 00:09:37,870 --> 00:09:39,910 Rick O'Rourke: Yes, that's one of their main parts of their 177 00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:40,150 diet. 178 00:09:40,990 --> 00:09:42,730 Adam Huggins: And what do you mean by the removal of the 179 00:09:42,730 --> 00:09:43,330 porcupines? 180 00:09:44,770 --> 00:09:47,290 Rick O'Rourke: I think they poisoned them or something like 181 00:09:47,290 --> 00:09:47,650 that. 182 00:09:49,630 --> 00:09:52,630 Adam Huggins: Yeah, this hit me way out of left field. I had no 183 00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:58,810 idea that we are in the middle of a complete collapse of the 184 00:09:58,810 --> 00:10:03,175 porcupine population. And that is from up here in Canada all 185 00:10:03,175 --> 00:10:08,095 the way down the coast. It turns out porcupines helped regulate 186 00:10:08,155 --> 00:10:11,515 the in growth of trees like Douglas fir, because they like 187 00:10:11,515 --> 00:10:15,295 to munch on them like any good rodent does. The sad reality is 188 00:10:15,295 --> 00:10:20,935 that they were treated like many rodents. They were singled out 189 00:10:21,115 --> 00:10:26,200 as a threat to the forestry industry, and so for 190 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,280 generations, these creatures were poisoned. They were shot. 191 00:10:30,580 --> 00:10:33,100 And killing porcupines was encouraged by both government 192 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:33,760 and industry. 193 00:10:38,820 --> 00:10:42,600 Several decades ago, we stopped killing porcupines on purpose, 194 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,920 generally, as a society, but their populations have not 195 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,660 really recovered. So in many ways, the work of the CFMC is to 196 00:10:51,660 --> 00:10:55,320 undo the damage from the policies put in place by the 197 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:55,980 Forest Service. 198 00:10:56,565 --> 00:11:00,045 When I was talking with folks on the crew who were older, they 199 00:11:00,045 --> 00:11:03,345 were telling me that when they were young, you could look 200 00:11:03,345 --> 00:11:08,025 across the river and look down slope and see all the way 201 00:11:08,025 --> 00:11:12,105 through because the forest was open. It was full of deciduous 202 00:11:12,105 --> 00:11:16,965 trees. It wasn't packed densely with conifers. Is this starting 203 00:11:16,965 --> 00:11:21,690 to sound familiar now? And so there's just no question that 204 00:11:21,690 --> 00:11:26,010 the lower Klamath used to be a mosaic of ecosystems which 205 00:11:26,010 --> 00:11:29,910 included some coniferous forest, but also included these large 206 00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:35,550 areas of oak woodland and Prairie and grassland, and that 207 00:11:35,550 --> 00:11:39,150 the Yurok people stewarded these areas with fire to have the full 208 00:11:39,150 --> 00:11:43,875 range of foods and medicines and materials for their cultural 209 00:11:43,875 --> 00:11:44,535 practices. 210 00:11:44,835 --> 00:11:47,175 Margo Robbins: Well, a lot of people just burn for what they 211 00:11:47,175 --> 00:11:52,095 call hazardous fuel reduction, but we're burning to restore the 212 00:11:52,095 --> 00:11:52,635 land. 213 00:11:53,115 --> 00:11:56,055 Claire Brown: It's step one of an intergenerational, iterative 214 00:11:56,595 --> 00:12:00,555 restoration process. Yep, day one — coming! 215 00:12:00,795 --> 00:12:01,515 Adam Huggins: Day one for me too. 216 00:12:01,515 --> 00:12:06,495 And this is something that, many folks told me, sets the CFMC 217 00:12:06,540 --> 00:12:10,740 apart from other burn crews. Their goals are as much about 218 00:12:10,740 --> 00:12:13,740 cultural resources as they are about consuming the fuel. 219 00:12:13,860 --> 00:12:16,080 Elizabeth Azzuz: You sometimes could get an agency person 220 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,960 that's just like, oh, let's just burn, burn, burn. We'll slow 221 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,320 down. You know, things need to be done a certain way. 222 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:25,680 Adam Huggins: That's Elizabeth again, Elizabeth Azzuz. She's a 223 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:29,160 founding board member of the CFMC, and she drives the fire 224 00:12:29,205 --> 00:12:31,125 engine known as 111. 225 00:12:31,425 --> 00:12:33,045 Elizabeth Azzuz: We're in someone else's home right now, 226 00:12:33,705 --> 00:12:37,485 you know, and so we try to be respectful when we do that, we 227 00:12:37,485 --> 00:12:40,605 ask permission from the land and the animals and the trees to 228 00:12:40,605 --> 00:12:43,845 come into their home and do this. Government agencies don't 229 00:12:43,845 --> 00:12:47,385 do that. You know, it's all about the acres. Get it done. 230 00:12:47,385 --> 00:12:48,465 Get it done fast. 231 00:12:48,825 --> 00:12:50,985 Adam Huggins: You know, the thing about prescribed fire, 232 00:12:50,985 --> 00:12:54,810 about cultural fire, is that you can only do it under very 233 00:12:54,810 --> 00:12:59,430 specific weather and environmental conditions. And so 234 00:12:59,430 --> 00:13:03,090 when there is a good burn window, the CFMC is on it, and 235 00:13:03,090 --> 00:13:05,850 they are taking advantage of every last minute that they have 236 00:13:05,850 --> 00:13:08,250 during that burn window to get as much good fire on the ground 237 00:13:08,250 --> 00:13:09,030 as possible. 238 00:13:09,690 --> 00:13:12,510 Robert McConnell: We don't want to impact the values down here, 239 00:13:12,510 --> 00:13:13,770 which is the water system. 240 00:13:13,830 --> 00:13:16,995 Adam Huggins: And before a fire, there's always a briefing. When 241 00:13:16,995 --> 00:13:19,815 the CFMC was first getting started, they had to rely on 242 00:13:19,815 --> 00:13:22,875 non-Indigenous burn bosses, because they didn't have anyone 243 00:13:22,875 --> 00:13:25,215 locally who had that designation, who had those 244 00:13:25,215 --> 00:13:28,515 skills. But now they have Robert, Robert McConnell, 245 00:13:28,515 --> 00:13:30,315 Robert McConnell: so we're not getting any of those petroleum 246 00:13:30,315 --> 00:13:33,555 products near their drinking water, which is right there. 247 00:13:33,795 --> 00:13:36,915 Adam Huggins: And at the end of every briefing, Robert would 248 00:13:36,915 --> 00:13:37,155 say, 249 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:40,140 Robert McConnell: Go forth. Have fun. Be safe. Look out for each 250 00:13:40,140 --> 00:13:42,060 other, learn something, 251 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,620 Adam Huggins: have fun, be safe, learn something. And that was 252 00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:47,580 exactly what we did. 253 00:13:50,940 --> 00:13:54,540 So to kick off the real work of day one, we had to prep the 254 00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:58,500 site. I helped clear gutters and move brush away from a nearby 255 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:02,445 home that we were gonna burn — not the home, like, burn to the 256 00:14:02,445 --> 00:14:02,685 home. 257 00:14:04,065 --> 00:14:04,725 Mendel Skulski: I should hope! 258 00:14:04,965 --> 00:14:07,725 Adam Huggins: Yeah, other squads were blowing leaves around with 259 00:14:07,725 --> 00:14:11,385 a leaf blower, checking and charging the water lines, 260 00:14:11,445 --> 00:14:14,385 getting all the gear lined up, you know, weed whacking the 261 00:14:14,385 --> 00:14:17,205 grass on the side of the road, like all this activity. And then 262 00:14:17,205 --> 00:14:20,085 everybody comes together. We're back at the top of the slope, 263 00:14:20,145 --> 00:14:21,585 and folks are goofing around... 264 00:14:21,645 --> 00:14:32,265 CFMC crew: By our powers combined... wind, water, fire, 265 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,080 Adam Huggins: Do you know what we're waiting for? 266 00:14:32,265 --> 00:14:32,625 earth, heart! 267 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:33,500 Claire Brown: Test fire. 268 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:33,980 Adam Huggins: Test fire. 269 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,360 And when everyone is present and accounted for, it was Rick who 270 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,660 stepped forward to light the test fire on his family's land. 271 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,400 He took a lighter to this beautiful, long, silver bundle 272 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,420 of Wormwood that they used to start the fire, and he murmured 273 00:14:50,420 --> 00:14:52,340 a prayer while lighting up a patch of ground. 274 00:14:56,020 --> 00:15:00,640 Rick O'Rourke: Creator, look after all of our People who are 275 00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:05,680 here do your service, helping heal our land, heal our people, 276 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:12,160 bring back our animals, create balance. It's an honor. 277 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,665 Adam Huggins: Can I ask you a question about the test fire? 278 00:15:18,385 --> 00:15:18,745 Margo Robbins: Yeah. 279 00:15:19,345 --> 00:15:21,565 Adam Huggins: Every time you guys do the test firing, 280 00:15:21,565 --> 00:15:23,905 everybody gathers around. There's a prayer, there's song. 281 00:15:24,685 --> 00:15:27,385 What's the like, what's the importance of that moment? 282 00:15:27,685 --> 00:15:29,545 Margo Robbins: What's the importance of prayer? [Laughs] 283 00:15:29,785 --> 00:15:32,605 Adam Huggins: Yeah, like, what, you know, it's not how, like, a 284 00:15:32,605 --> 00:15:34,405 typical, you know, prescribed burn starts. 285 00:15:34,405 --> 00:15:38,725 This is Margo Robbins. She runs the show at the CFMC. She's the 286 00:15:38,725 --> 00:15:39,805 executive director. 287 00:15:39,985 --> 00:15:44,350 Margo Robbins: Fire is medicine on the land, and when you smell 288 00:15:44,350 --> 00:15:51,490 that Wormwood, it makes it even more real. It takes it from a 289 00:15:51,490 --> 00:15:57,070 mind-knowing thing to a deep down heart-felt thing, and it 290 00:15:57,070 --> 00:16:04,675 helps us connect to that spiritual part of who we are and 291 00:16:04,675 --> 00:16:07,375 to connect to the things around us. 292 00:16:07,495 --> 00:16:08,875 Amanaka Yancey: Yeah, it's really helpful. I've been on 293 00:16:08,875 --> 00:16:11,695 other burns where that practice isn't held and it's just 294 00:16:12,175 --> 00:16:15,895 immediately a cortisol level spike, then go... into this 295 00:16:15,895 --> 00:16:19,015 really like dangerous experience with a bunch of different 296 00:16:19,015 --> 00:16:21,535 people. Some you've known, have worked with for a long time, 297 00:16:21,535 --> 00:16:24,895 some you're maybe just meeting, and that collective pause is 298 00:16:24,895 --> 00:16:25,600 really potent. 299 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:28,960 Adam Huggins: I totally felt that. Just taking a moment for 300 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,740 everyone to align their intentions and spirits and also 301 00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:35,560 just to get our heads on straight, it was so valuable, 302 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,920 especially to me as someone about to do something I'd never 303 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,020 done before with people I did not know. 304 00:16:41,260 --> 00:16:43,300 Rick O'Rourke: To me, putting fire down on the ground is like 305 00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:46,660 putting prayer on the ground. Really like seeing the land for 306 00:16:46,660 --> 00:16:51,325 what it is and how important it is. I mean, this land needs us 307 00:16:51,325 --> 00:16:54,385 as much as we need it, and we believe what we are doing is the 308 00:16:54,385 --> 00:16:59,185 right thing to help heal this spot, as well as sending out 309 00:16:59,185 --> 00:17:03,805 knowledge to help other spots start the same thing, you know, 310 00:17:03,805 --> 00:17:05,305 so we can all do our part. 311 00:17:08,125 --> 00:17:12,970 Adam Huggins: The purpose of a test fire is to make sure that 312 00:17:13,030 --> 00:17:16,270 what we're seeing on our instruments, and what we're 313 00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:18,310 seeing in the weather report, and what we're seeing on the 314 00:17:18,310 --> 00:17:21,790 ground is actually conducive to the kind of fire that the burn 315 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:22,570 plan calls for. 316 00:17:24,970 --> 00:17:26,050 Rick O'Rourke: It's receptive! 317 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,740 Adam Huggins: Meaning that it burned really readily. Still 318 00:17:30,740 --> 00:17:32,600 within the parameters of the burn plan... 319 00:17:32,660 --> 00:17:33,980 Rick O'Rourke: Think just dots will do it. 320 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:39,020 Adam Huggins: But all it took were the tiniest dots of fuel 321 00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:41,300 from the drip torch to get the fire going. 322 00:17:52,505 --> 00:17:56,825 And with that, the whole crew kicked into gear, and I had to 323 00:17:56,825 --> 00:18:00,845 find my squad. Fire is running on the ground, and suddenly 324 00:18:00,845 --> 00:18:05,165 everything starts moving really, really fast. And oh man, did we 325 00:18:05,165 --> 00:18:09,185 get right into it. That fire started pretty hot, and so 326 00:18:09,185 --> 00:18:13,070 within minutes, I had a hose in my hand and was standing in 327 00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:16,910 thick smoke, putting water on some trees to prevent the fire 328 00:18:16,910 --> 00:18:18,170 from getting off the ground. 329 00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:22,850 And I was getting a total crash course in fireline lingo. Are 330 00:18:22,850 --> 00:18:23,630 you ready for this? 331 00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:24,350 Mendel Skulski: I think so? 332 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,586 Adam Huggins: All right, so on a fire line, you don't breathe 333 00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:31,707 smoke in, you eat it. And boy, I was eating smoke on day one. I 334 00:18:31,771 --> 00:18:35,763 was putting water on some logs on the ground to keep them from 335 00:18:35,828 --> 00:18:39,498 burning, because they just burn forever. Those are called 336 00:18:39,562 --> 00:18:43,425 heavies. and the whole crew took special care to inspect the 337 00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:47,740 bases of trees that they wanted to protect, like Oaks and Arbutus. 338 00:18:47,555 --> 00:18:49,895 Max Brotman: Take extra care to look for cat faces. 339 00:18:50,495 --> 00:18:50,915 Claire Brown: Will do. 340 00:18:51,635 --> 00:18:54,575 Adam Huggins: They look for these injuries called cat faces, 341 00:18:54,815 --> 00:18:57,995 that if fire gets on them, it can burn the tree internally and 342 00:18:57,995 --> 00:19:02,780 cause issues. By the way, firefighters don't go anywhere. 343 00:19:03,380 --> 00:19:04,160 They bump. 344 00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:06,260 CFMC crew: You want to go bump below the smoke and work with 345 00:19:06,260 --> 00:19:07,160 Amanaka for a bit? 346 00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:07,880 Adam Huggins: I'm happy to. 347 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,080 Will Bruce: Alright — yeah go for it. 348 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:12,500 Adam Huggins: And you don't just bump your body around. You can 349 00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:15,620 bump things around too, like Jerries. 350 00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:16,340 Will Bruce: Jerry! 351 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,140 Adam Huggins: Which are... cans of gas. 352 00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:21,360 CFMC crew: Oh yeah, bumping Jerry. 353 00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:25,680 Adam Huggins: Or... piss pumps, which are backpacks full of 354 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,960 water that you can use to make a nice stream. So you're walking 355 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,740 on the slope and something gets dislodged and goes tumbling 356 00:19:34,740 --> 00:19:38,100 down, you're gonna yell really loud... ROCK! 357 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:39,960 Amanaka Yancey: Yeah, no matter what it is, if it's rolling down 358 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:40,680 the hill — rock. 359 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,019 Adam Huggins: So there are different roles on a fire crew. 360 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,340 Max Brotman: Rock! Little rock. 361 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:41,580 Claire Brown: Rock! 362 00:19:43,087 --> 00:19:46,743 The first role that I was assigned to was Holding, and 363 00:19:46,811 --> 00:19:50,806 holding has the responsibility of making sure that the fire 364 00:19:50,874 --> 00:19:55,004 does not escape. And so when you're on holding, you got to be 365 00:19:55,072 --> 00:19:59,338 looking out for spotting. Which is when little embers jump your 366 00:19:59,405 --> 00:20:03,062 line and get started. And jackpots, which are unburned 367 00:20:03,130 --> 00:20:07,260 patches of dense fuel that could explode. Fire can do so many 368 00:20:07,328 --> 00:20:11,323 things. It can crown, it can creep, it can back, and it can 369 00:20:11,391 --> 00:20:15,589 torch, which is when the fire starts climbing up into the tree 370 00:20:15,657 --> 00:20:19,923 canopy. And when that happens, if you're on holding, you've got 371 00:20:15,965 --> 00:21:40,985 in what shape. Too much, and the fire can burn too hot and harm 372 00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:24,189 to get some water on the fire and knock it down. And folks who 373 00:20:24,256 --> 00:20:28,387 are on holding are often on the sides and up along the top of 374 00:20:28,454 --> 00:20:32,653 the burn right. They're coming down as the burn is moving down 375 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,820 the hill, keeping it contained. 376 00:21:40,985 --> 00:21:43,925 the things you're trying to protect, like a valuable old oak 377 00:21:43,925 --> 00:21:47,405 tree. But not enough, and the fire won't really move how you 378 00:21:47,405 --> 00:21:50,885 want. It'll kind of stay static. The experienced hands on the 379 00:21:50,885 --> 00:21:54,725 crew just sort of knew how to fire in each circumstance to get 380 00:21:54,725 --> 00:21:59,285 the effects that they wanted. Finally, you've got the Green 381 00:21:59,585 --> 00:22:03,590 and you've got the Black. The green is the unburned area 382 00:22:03,650 --> 00:22:06,230 outside of your containment lines, and you want to prevent 383 00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:10,310 that from catching fire. The black is the burned area inside 384 00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:10,970 your lines. 385 00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:13,550 Amanaka Yancey: I'm seeing a little bit of wind coming up 386 00:22:13,550 --> 00:22:15,950 towards us with these embers. So while we're talking, maybe 387 00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:18,350 Adam Huggins: You want to have an eye on the green over there. 388 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:19,980 Amanaka Yancey: We'll glance over our shoulder every now and 389 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:20,220 then 390 00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:22,440 Adam Huggins: You know you can keep an eye on the black. I'll 391 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,580 keep an eye on the green. 392 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,800 Amanaka Yancey: Fantastic. Thank you. 393 00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:33,360 Claire Brown: Temperature, 81, down 4. RH, 43 up 4. 394 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:36,600 Adam Huggins: That is the hourly weather report delivered by the 395 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,320 FEMO, another acronym. Let's take a quick break from the 396 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,760 smoke and check in with them, eh? 397 00:22:42,105 --> 00:22:42,825 Mendel Skulski: Smoke break! 398 00:22:44,625 --> 00:22:48,525 Adam Huggins: So FEMO stands for Fire Effects Monitoring, which 399 00:22:48,525 --> 00:22:53,265 is like a task, and also usually a person on this burn that was 400 00:22:53,265 --> 00:22:53,925 Claire Brown. 401 00:22:54,165 --> 00:22:57,585 Claire Brown: Everybody gets to hear the trends through the day 402 00:22:58,005 --> 00:23:02,745 and build that picture in their own minds of like how they can 403 00:23:02,745 --> 00:23:04,965 expect things to be changing as the weather changes. 404 00:23:05,010 --> 00:23:07,110 Adam Huggins: It's kind of like monitoring a patient during a 405 00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:07,710 procedure. 406 00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:14,010 Claire Brown: It's like taking vitals exactly, 407 00:23:14,010 --> 00:23:16,230 PIG shaded 30, down 10. 408 00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:18,510 Our probability of ignition in the shade is 30. 409 00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:18,930 Adam Huggins: 30%? 410 00:23:18,930 --> 00:23:21,450 Claire Brown: Yeah, 30% so if 10 embers landed on this fuel bed, 411 00:23:21,630 --> 00:23:23,310 we could expect three of them to catch. 412 00:23:23,910 --> 00:23:24,510 How do you copy? 413 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:25,500 Robert McConnell: Burn Boss copies, thank you. 414 00:23:27,180 --> 00:23:27,780 Jordan Spannaus: Firing copies. 415 00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:29,700 Max Brotman: Holding copies. 416 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,880 Claire Brown: One of the roles that FEMO has is the 417 00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:36,960 documentation that supports the burn boss legally, because we 418 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,200 have a prescription in our burn plan and we have to have fire 419 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,200 behavior that's inside of that prescription parameter. Like the 420 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,860 burn boss needs to have a record of the weather for the day. 421 00:23:47,265 --> 00:23:51,165 Adam Huggins: Every burn plan has these parameters, so the 422 00:23:51,165 --> 00:23:54,885 burn plan can only be executed if the conditions are correct. 423 00:23:55,065 --> 00:23:58,725 That's why there's constant monitoring. Is the temperature 424 00:23:58,785 --> 00:24:02,385 still appropriate? Is the moisture content of the fuel 425 00:24:02,385 --> 00:24:05,925 still appropriate? What is the wind doing? Is the wind going to 426 00:24:05,925 --> 00:24:07,185 start to create problems? 427 00:24:07,785 --> 00:24:11,865 And I want to say yes, we were wearing the traditional outfits 428 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:16,830 of firefighters. We had on our Nomex, we had fire engines, we 429 00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:22,650 had our tools. We looked for all the world like firefighters, but 430 00:24:23,250 --> 00:24:28,410 the context, to me, felt profoundly cultural. And this is 431 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:31,890 something that many folks told me sets the CFMC apart from 432 00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:34,995 other burn crews. It's right there in the name, it's the 433 00:24:35,055 --> 00:24:40,995 Cultural Fire Management Council, and so cultural goals, 434 00:24:40,995 --> 00:24:45,135 cultural practices are front and center in this model of 435 00:24:45,135 --> 00:24:48,795 prescribed fire. This is first and foremost about community 436 00:24:48,795 --> 00:24:54,975 empowerment, and it's driven by cultural values related to the 437 00:24:54,975 --> 00:24:59,220 responsibility to the landscape and the relationship with the 438 00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:04,740 Creator. Cultural values related to what is a healthy landscape, 439 00:25:05,220 --> 00:25:11,100 what is a healthy forest, what is a healthy watershed? It 440 00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:16,260 encompasses everything from the movements of animals and how 441 00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:19,920 they will interact with the landscape down to the flow of 442 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,005 water through the entire environment. 443 00:25:22,185 --> 00:25:25,365 Rick O'Rourke: What we're doing is essentially creating a 444 00:25:25,365 --> 00:25:26,925 landscape wide water filter. 445 00:25:27,585 --> 00:25:29,205 Elizabeth Azzuz: This time of year, right now, when we're 446 00:25:29,205 --> 00:25:33,825 burning, we know that the rain is coming, and so that's going 447 00:25:33,825 --> 00:25:37,125 to put everything to sleep. It's going to take this charcoal and 448 00:25:37,125 --> 00:25:41,145 ash filter clean water back into the water table, down into the 449 00:25:41,145 --> 00:25:43,365 creeks, into the river and into the ocean. 450 00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:47,310 Adam Huggins: And cultural values for significant foods, 451 00:25:47,730 --> 00:25:51,930 medicines and materials... like beaked hazelnut. 452 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,260 Rick O'Rourke: With the canopy how it is now, those Hazels grow 453 00:25:55,260 --> 00:25:57,420 good — because, you know, they got that canopy. They're 454 00:25:57,420 --> 00:26:01,140 stretching long, straight sticks. That's what we're after. 455 00:26:01,140 --> 00:26:02,340 That's what the ladies are after. 456 00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:06,300 Margo Robbins: All of those small bushes. That's Hazel. 457 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:10,320 That's what we use for our baskets. So once the fire goes 458 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,120 through, they'll send up new shoots. 459 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,405 Annelia Norris: Our name for Hazel is Holihl. 460 00:26:16,185 --> 00:26:20,145 Adam Huggins: This is Annalia Norris, and when she's not 461 00:26:20,145 --> 00:26:22,605 lighting fires. She makes baskets. 462 00:26:22,785 --> 00:26:25,485 Annelia Norris: Yeah, I'm a weaver. I've been making a lot 463 00:26:25,485 --> 00:26:28,365 of baby baskets because there's a high demand for thosoe. 464 00:26:28,545 --> 00:26:30,405 Mendel Skulski: Like a tiny little basket for your baby to 465 00:26:30,405 --> 00:26:30,645 carry. 466 00:26:32,025 --> 00:26:37,005 Adam Huggins: No, no! You put you put the baby in the basket! 467 00:26:37,185 --> 00:26:40,170 Annelia Norris: Yeah, they're the safest way for our babies to 468 00:26:40,170 --> 00:26:43,590 sleep. You know, it kind of mimics the womb and that feeling 469 00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:46,230 so that babies feel secure, you know. 470 00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:49,410 Adam Huggins: The Yurok are widely known for their baskets, 471 00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:52,710 for their variety, and their artistry, and their quality. 472 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,900 Annelia Norris: I've done some burden baskets, and I really 473 00:26:55,900 --> 00:27:00,580 enjoy that. That's like an open weave. We call them a kewoy — 474 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:06,280 gathering basket, packing basket. But I also do some 475 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,060 closed weave work, which is like your watertight baskets. And in 476 00:27:10,060 --> 00:27:13,300 this region, we're known for our watertight baskets. That's what 477 00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:17,425 we cook our acorns in. You know you have dipping baskets for 478 00:27:17,425 --> 00:27:21,865 your water, cooking baskets. And then we also have our really 479 00:27:21,865 --> 00:27:26,605 fine weaving, like our ceremonial caps and our, you 480 00:27:26,605 --> 00:27:30,985 know, tobacco baskets, trinket baskets, those kinds of things. 481 00:27:31,045 --> 00:27:33,085 Adam Huggins: How... the material, like, why does it need 482 00:27:33,085 --> 00:27:34,525 to be burned to be good? 483 00:27:35,065 --> 00:27:38,665 Annelia Norris: Well, it makes it stronger and more pliable. 484 00:27:38,965 --> 00:27:43,450 You know, when you burn the tops of these larger Hazels, and then 485 00:27:43,450 --> 00:27:46,510 new shoots can grow up. And then they grow nice and straight 486 00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:51,070 without, like, little stems coming off. So the burning helps 487 00:27:51,130 --> 00:27:54,850 to bring new shoots up, because that's what you're using, is the 488 00:27:54,850 --> 00:27:56,530 new shoots, right? 489 00:27:56,590 --> 00:27:58,930 Adam Huggins: So, like, there's a hazel right behind you, and 490 00:27:58,930 --> 00:28:01,390 like, maybe you wouldn't use that so much because it's all 491 00:28:01,390 --> 00:28:01,810 kinky. 492 00:28:02,170 --> 00:28:04,135 Annelia Norris: Yeah, because you don't want a crooked basket, 493 00:28:04,135 --> 00:28:05,935 you want a nice, straight stick. 494 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,680 Rick O'Rourke: You know, putting these sticks on the ground for 495 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,200 our basket weavers is my way of giving back, like, to the 496 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,500 dances, because these sticks are, like, so important. We keep 497 00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:18,380 our food in them, our babies, our medicine, we send up prayer 498 00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:22,220 with them. You know, without it, we wouldn't have been able to 499 00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:23,720 live here and thrive like we had. 500 00:28:25,340 --> 00:28:28,760 Adam Huggins: The Hazel is just one element of Yurok basketry, 501 00:28:29,060 --> 00:28:30,545 but there's so much more to it. 502 00:28:30,905 --> 00:28:34,385 Annelia Norris: We use the Blue Willow. We call that pergern. We 503 00:28:34,385 --> 00:28:39,245 also use spruce root, Sitka spruce. Spruce root is called 504 00:28:39,485 --> 00:28:43,925 'wohpeg — that's what we use for our watertight baskets, because 505 00:28:43,925 --> 00:28:49,145 it expands when it gets wet. We use bear grasses, haamoh, we 506 00:28:49,145 --> 00:28:53,390 call it. We use the re' go', which is the maidenhair fern. 507 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:58,910 The woodwardia fern, or pa'app'. We take out the insides of that 508 00:28:58,910 --> 00:29:02,750 and we dye it with Alder bark, and that makes the red in our 509 00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:08,810 baskets. We have yellow in some of our medicine baskets, and the 510 00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:14,270 yellow is porcupine quill that's called tegee'n, and we dye that 511 00:29:14,270 --> 00:29:16,595 with that yellow wolf moss. 512 00:29:16,835 --> 00:29:19,295 Adam Huggins: Maybe you get the sense, Mendel, that it takes a 513 00:29:19,295 --> 00:29:24,095 whole healthy cultural landscape to make a single basket. They're 514 00:29:24,095 --> 00:29:27,755 burning for basketry materials, and they're burning for 515 00:29:27,755 --> 00:29:31,055 medicines, and they're burning for game. They're also burning 516 00:29:31,235 --> 00:29:34,655 to release oak trees so that oaks can be productive and 517 00:29:34,655 --> 00:29:37,895 produce acorns again. And then they're burning under those oak 518 00:29:37,895 --> 00:29:41,180 trees to prevent those acorns from getting infested with 519 00:29:41,180 --> 00:29:45,740 weevils. And by taking part in this cultural burning, Annelia 520 00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:47,660 is helping to restore that landscape. 521 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,900 Annelia Norris: It feels like the right thing to do, and I 522 00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:54,200 feel like I'm fulfilling my purpose as far as like taking 523 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,320 care of the land where I'm living at and that's what we all 524 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,500 should be doing wherever we live. It's like... caring for 525 00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:04,820 that landscape. We've normalized the cultural burning, like we've 526 00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:09,740 really taken leadership in asserting ourselves and our 527 00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:14,705 culture and our land management. You know, it just started 528 00:30:15,125 --> 00:30:18,845 catching, catching fire. No pun intended. 529 00:30:19,505 --> 00:30:21,425 Adam Huggins: Oh, pun always intended over here. I'm sorry. 530 00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:25,560 Because cultural values are driving everything that happens, 531 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,460 because they're not just trying to burn off fuel, the burns look 532 00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:32,700 really different from what can sometimes happen on other 533 00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:35,700 prescribed fire crews, right? If your objective is just to burn 534 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:39,540 off as much fuel as you can without lighting a wildfire on a 535 00:30:39,540 --> 00:30:43,080 piece of land, then you can burn through it really quickly, 536 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,025 right? But for the Cultural Fire Management Council, they have so 537 00:30:47,025 --> 00:30:49,425 many values that they're trying to protect on the lands that 538 00:30:49,425 --> 00:30:52,725 they burn — that they're trying to protect and enhance, right? 539 00:30:52,845 --> 00:30:56,625 And so they need just the right fire intensity to where it's 540 00:30:56,625 --> 00:31:01,245 going to move through the ecosystem slowly, to where it's 541 00:31:01,245 --> 00:31:05,385 not going to kill the oak trees. It's going to provide 542 00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:08,370 blistering, but not completely kill off the Hazels. 543 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,480 Rick O'Rourke: It looks really good. The cambium blisters down 544 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,960 at the bottom when you hit a certain heat point with this low 545 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,500 intensity fire. It's a longer duration and lower intensity, 546 00:31:18,980 --> 00:31:22,400 and it blisters the cambium so that there's a top kill, and the 547 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,640 new shoots for our baskets come up in the spring. 548 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,940 Adam Huggins: So you can tell that you're going to get good 549 00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:35,660 shoots absolutely just from the blisters. 550 00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:35,840 Rick O'Rourke: Yes. 551 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,725 Adam Huggins: So I'm lying on my back in the tent first burn 552 00:31:39,725 --> 00:31:48,005 today. I am so tired. Today was little over two acres took 553 00:31:48,005 --> 00:31:52,925 something like seven hours. I'm told that tomorrow gonna take 554 00:31:52,925 --> 00:31:58,190 the same number of people and we're gonna burn 11 acres. Who 555 00:31:58,190 --> 00:32:05,870 knows how long that's gonna take? Anyway, Adam, day one of 556 00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:09,350 burning on the Klamath with the Cultural Fire Management 557 00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:11,690 Council... signing off. 558 00:32:14,750 --> 00:32:18,095 Mendel Skulski: When we come back, day two, where we turn up 559 00:32:18,095 --> 00:32:21,155 the heat. That's after the break. 560 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,280 Welcome back. I'm Mendel. 561 00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:50,060 Adam Huggins: I'm Adam. 562 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,960 Mendel Skulski: This is Future Ecologies, and today, Adam is 563 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,620 bringing us all along on his trip to Yurok territory on the 564 00:32:57,620 --> 00:33:01,580 Klamath River, so we can get a sense of what it's like to be on 565 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,020 a cultural fire crew, 566 00:33:03,125 --> 00:33:06,545 Adam Huggins: That's right. And on this particular crew, it was 567 00:33:06,545 --> 00:33:11,705 a really great mix of professional structure and then 568 00:33:11,705 --> 00:33:18,425 also flexibility. People were shifting roles, and it seemed 569 00:33:18,425 --> 00:33:23,045 like the leadership viewed every burn as an opportunity to give 570 00:33:23,165 --> 00:33:26,510 different people at different stages in their fire journey new 571 00:33:26,510 --> 00:33:27,530 experiences. 572 00:33:27,890 --> 00:33:32,450 Isabel Guerra: Simply, I love it. I love how it pushes me. I 573 00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:35,510 love how I learn something new every day. 574 00:33:35,630 --> 00:33:37,790 Adam Huggins: That's Isabel Guerra, the firing crew lead. 575 00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:41,380 Isabel Guerra: One of the things I see in creating a learning 576 00:33:41,380 --> 00:33:44,260 environment is, yeah, you want to challenge people, but you 577 00:33:44,260 --> 00:33:47,980 also need to let them know that it's okay to fail, and it's not 578 00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:51,460 actually failure because you have your whole team holding on 579 00:33:51,460 --> 00:33:53,620 to you, creating that safety net. 580 00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:55,480 Rick O'Rourke: I tell the people I'm training, I'll put you out 581 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,880 of your comfort zone, but I won't put you in danger. 582 00:33:58,419 --> 00:34:02,219 Isabel Guerra: Learning is such a sacred process. 583 00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:05,060 Max Brotman: Fire is such a team effort. It's like a sports team. 584 00:34:05,060 --> 00:34:08,480 You know? It's like football. We like make our plan. We modify 585 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,620 the plan as we go 586 00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:12,980 Adam Huggins: Max Brotman — holding boss and drone operator. 587 00:34:13,220 --> 00:34:16,280 Max Brotman: And I'm not a sports person, but I imagine 588 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:17,360 it's like playing football. 589 00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:21,200 Claire Brown: We're gonna do it rose, bud, and thorns. So Rose 590 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,920 is something that you think went really well. Thorn is something 591 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,725 that you think could have gone better, and then the Bud is how 592 00:34:27,725 --> 00:34:30,245 you would grow that into a better way of doing it. 593 00:34:30,665 --> 00:34:33,905 Max Brotman: Every year, in the spring, we do fire effects 594 00:34:33,905 --> 00:34:37,505 walks, where the whole crew goes out to the units that we had 595 00:34:37,505 --> 00:34:41,405 burned in the last year. We look over our notes from the FEMO 596 00:34:41,405 --> 00:34:41,945 report — 597 00:34:41,945 --> 00:34:43,625 Claire Brown: because we can relate, like, oh yeah, our 598 00:34:43,625 --> 00:34:48,005 weather that day was like this. And so we ended up trying this 599 00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:51,350 strategy out, and we got this result. And like, now we're 600 00:34:51,350 --> 00:34:54,170 seeing how it's regrowing, or what died, or what have you. 601 00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:56,930 Max Brotman: We talk to all the people who worked the fire about 602 00:34:56,930 --> 00:35:00,230 what they remember about that day — what happened here? Did 603 00:35:00,230 --> 00:35:03,170 you light this? Who was lighting here? Oh, yeah. What did you do? 604 00:35:04,370 --> 00:35:07,430 Where'd you get hung up? Was there a jackpot? How did we 605 00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:11,210 impact the canopy? How did we impact the sub canopy? Is there 606 00:35:11,210 --> 00:35:15,755 more light? Did we kill some trees? Why did we kill those 607 00:35:15,755 --> 00:35:20,135 trees? Is that a good thing or not? You know, if we're trying 608 00:35:20,135 --> 00:35:23,015 to thin out a thicket of young Doug firs. Like, could we have 609 00:35:23,015 --> 00:35:24,755 modified what we did to do that better? 610 00:35:25,235 --> 00:35:31,115 There's just so much learning that happens after the fire, and 611 00:35:31,115 --> 00:35:33,995 so by doing that, all as a whole crew, and not just the 612 00:35:33,995 --> 00:35:37,340 leadership, everybody gets to learn about the impacts of like, 613 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,000 looking at how their firing patterns worked, how did that 614 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,060 affect how we move through the unit, and then what effect did 615 00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:45,560 that have on the forest? 616 00:36:00,425 --> 00:36:04,625 Adam Huggins: The reality is that Yurok territory is big, and 617 00:36:04,925 --> 00:36:08,405 there has been over a century of fire suppression. And so there 618 00:36:08,405 --> 00:36:13,325 is just a lot of area that needs good fire. Even on the areas 619 00:36:13,325 --> 00:36:17,285 that have been burned, they often need to be burned on two 620 00:36:17,285 --> 00:36:21,725 or three or five or eight year intervals, right? And so when 621 00:36:21,725 --> 00:36:26,810 you think about bringing all of those lands back into good fire 622 00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:31,250 stewardship and then also going into the areas that haven't been 623 00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:34,730 burned, it's a huge job. It's just enormous. 624 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:38,570 Claire Brown: This is, like, pretty representative of, like, 625 00:36:38,570 --> 00:36:42,050 what the ground looks like in places that haven't had fire in 626 00:36:42,050 --> 00:36:48,335 a long time, where you see the black oaks stretched out with 627 00:36:48,335 --> 00:36:52,835 the crown super high, tied in with like a much younger age 628 00:36:52,835 --> 00:36:58,655 class of fir trees — big firs that are probably still younger 629 00:36:58,655 --> 00:37:02,255 than our eldest people here on site today, who will love to 630 00:37:02,255 --> 00:37:05,075 tell you how they used to see clear across everywhere when 631 00:37:05,075 --> 00:37:05,735 they were with kids. 632 00:37:05,735 --> 00:37:09,440 Margo Robbins: You know, we should be able to just walk 633 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,640 across the land. And we should be able to see from, you know, 634 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,940 down near the bottom of the hill all the way up to the ridge. 635 00:37:17,540 --> 00:37:20,300 Claire Brown: It's real thick in here. Got patches of Himalayan 636 00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:22,580 Blackberry. We got patches with English ivy. 637 00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:25,880 Dylan Stevens: It's a process, but there's areas upriver here 638 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,600 that have been worked repeatedly, that were just walls 639 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,925 of broom and blackberry, and they're not anymore. 640 00:37:32,285 --> 00:37:34,205 Rick O'Rourke: You know, we prayed to have people come up 641 00:37:34,205 --> 00:37:37,385 here to help us, and in that prayer, it's like we weren't 642 00:37:37,385 --> 00:37:41,465 like gender specific or religious specific or race 643 00:37:41,465 --> 00:37:45,485 specific, whoever would come to help us, we'll accept it 644 00:37:46,205 --> 00:37:50,345 gratefully and try to feed you good and sit around and burn 645 00:37:50,345 --> 00:37:52,505 together and eat together and we become family. 646 00:37:52,985 --> 00:37:55,610 Elizabeth Azzuz: Yeah, you know, people often ask us, you know, 647 00:37:55,610 --> 00:37:59,570 why we have non Indigenous staff? Well, everybody cares for 648 00:37:59,570 --> 00:38:03,650 the planet. Everybody loves the Mother Earth, you know, whoever 649 00:38:03,650 --> 00:38:06,710 wants to take care of whatever, and if we can provide that, we 650 00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:07,070 will. 651 00:38:07,790 --> 00:38:11,210 Will Bruce: I love all the people involved. I love the 652 00:38:11,210 --> 00:38:14,390 land. I love watching the land respond to fire. 653 00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:18,155 Adam Huggins: Will Bruce, GIS specialist and my crew lead. 654 00:38:18,155 --> 00:38:23,555 Will Bruce: I love being in here, lending a direct hand to 655 00:38:23,795 --> 00:38:28,475 Native people exercising their rights to manage this land. 656 00:38:29,555 --> 00:38:36,575 Yeah, it just feels like a great place to be. And I feel very I 657 00:38:36,575 --> 00:38:40,640 feel very appreciated. You know, everybody that's part of this 658 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:41,960 work is appreciated. 659 00:38:42,380 --> 00:38:44,960 Elizabeth Azzuz: When we started out, it was just a handful of 660 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,320 us, you know, Margo and I worked in our cars or any office space 661 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,060 we could bum, basically. Or our kitchen tables, you know. And 662 00:38:53,060 --> 00:38:55,940 then eventually it was like it was too much for her and I to 663 00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:59,420 do. And we needed equipment. We needed vehicles and things, you 664 00:38:59,420 --> 00:39:02,060 know. So the grant writing process has happened, and the 665 00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:05,165 elders that sit on our board were like, you guys, got your 666 00:39:05,165 --> 00:39:07,685 Hazel now? What about our acorns? What about our berries? 667 00:39:07,685 --> 00:39:10,445 What about our medicine, you know, what about all these 668 00:39:10,445 --> 00:39:14,045 things? I was like, Oh, shoot. And so it just kept growing, you 669 00:39:14,045 --> 00:39:15,065 know, evolving. 670 00:39:15,365 --> 00:39:18,965 Rick O'Rourke: A lot of these guys and gals, I trained them up 671 00:39:18,965 --> 00:39:22,625 on their first day of lighting, and look at them now. 672 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,380 Elizabeth Azzuz: We try to hire community members, locals. We do 673 00:39:26,380 --> 00:39:29,380 cooperative burns, where we train other government agencies 674 00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:33,520 to do what we do. Aspiring fire lighter burns, that train people 675 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,420 who've never worked with fire. One of my favorite things about 676 00:39:37,420 --> 00:39:41,680 these training exchanges is seeing their aha moment when 677 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,160 they realized that this is actually what they were meant to 678 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,325 do, that they were meant to care for the land, that they were 679 00:39:48,325 --> 00:39:53,245 meant to evolve into the people I watched them become. We have 680 00:39:53,245 --> 00:39:56,005 one kid. I use them as my example for everything. When 681 00:39:56,005 --> 00:39:59,725 people are like, well, you know, why do you do what you do? Well, 682 00:39:59,725 --> 00:40:02,965 this young man really, really wanted to work for us, bad but 683 00:40:02,965 --> 00:40:06,805 he had some bad habits. You know, he wasn't living well. 684 00:40:07,225 --> 00:40:09,670 Margo and I sat with him and said, Well, you have to do this, 685 00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:13,750 this and this, and then we'll give you a job. Well, he did it. 686 00:40:14,650 --> 00:40:19,090 He went and got himself cleaned up and brought us certificates, 687 00:40:19,090 --> 00:40:21,910 and sat down and said, I did what you said. Now, where's my 688 00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:27,490 job? He's been with us ever since. Loyal is the day is long. 689 00:40:28,030 --> 00:40:31,090 He tells people he'll never leave us. We didn't do it for 690 00:40:31,090 --> 00:40:35,995 that. We did it for him. So when you get about 15 or 20 of those 691 00:40:35,995 --> 00:40:40,255 guys running around, it's worth it all. It's worth the two 692 00:40:40,255 --> 00:40:45,355 o'clock mornings, you know, all the late shifts we do, but you 693 00:40:45,355 --> 00:40:48,055 know, look what they're doing. They're caring for their land, 694 00:40:48,055 --> 00:40:51,535 and they're making their elders happy and providing for their 695 00:40:51,535 --> 00:40:55,660 families. And that's the whole goal, for me, is to make sure 696 00:40:55,660 --> 00:40:59,440 the younger generation can move into the future safely and 697 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,000 happy. It's nice to evolve into what we are and why we do what 698 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:04,420 we do. 699 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,680 Jordan Spannaus: I started off wildland fire, and after seven 700 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,340 years of wildland just transitioning to prescribed 701 00:41:15,340 --> 00:41:15,880 fire. 702 00:41:16,540 --> 00:41:19,645 Adam Huggins: that's Jordan Spannaus. He's a firing boss. 703 00:41:19,765 --> 00:41:22,705 Jordan Spannaus: Little bit better as far as things like 704 00:41:22,705 --> 00:41:26,245 being able to go home at the end of every night, not not missing 705 00:41:27,385 --> 00:41:29,185 birthdays and stuff like that. 706 00:41:30,325 --> 00:41:31,345 Adam Huggins: Like, good for the family, too. 707 00:41:31,345 --> 00:41:34,945 Jordan Spannaus: Good for the family, good for the land. But 708 00:41:34,945 --> 00:41:38,305 yeah, fires, fire is just one of those things that I love. 709 00:41:43,345 --> 00:41:45,430 Adam Huggins: One of the coolest things that I witnessed while I 710 00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:49,510 was down there was seeing them do drone ignitions for the first 711 00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:49,870 time. 712 00:41:51,130 --> 00:41:52,990 Isabel Guerra: We're ready to launch the drone. 713 00:41:53,770 --> 00:41:57,670 Max Brotman: Copy. Tell me precisely where you want it. 714 00:41:57,670 --> 00:42:00,850 Isabel Guerra: So if your drops are slightly below the contour 715 00:42:00,850 --> 00:42:01,870 that would be perfect. 716 00:42:03,175 --> 00:42:04,615 Max Brotman: Okay, launching. 717 00:42:15,835 --> 00:42:19,315 Adam Huggins: They've been using drones for years to map fire 718 00:42:19,315 --> 00:42:22,195 intensity, because you can use heat sensors on the drone to see 719 00:42:22,195 --> 00:42:25,375 where the fire is burning and how intensely. But this was the 720 00:42:25,375 --> 00:42:30,040 very first time they had used this absolutely enormous drone 721 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,180 to drop these little incendiary dragon eggs into the middle of 722 00:42:34,180 --> 00:42:34,540 the burn. 723 00:42:34,660 --> 00:42:37,540 Unknown: Flying it is kind of like steering a boat, whereas 724 00:42:37,540 --> 00:42:39,280 the other drone is like a hummingbird. 725 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:40,840 Adam Huggins: So that was pretty cool. 726 00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:42,220 Isabel Guerra: Go for firing. 727 00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:44,260 Adam Huggins: It was big deal. 728 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,660 Max Brotman: Oh my gosh, there's the freaking dots, guys. 729 00:42:46,660 --> 00:42:49,480 Adam Huggins: The drone is going to help them access areas that 730 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,645 are hard for people to get into, in the middle of those burn 731 00:42:52,645 --> 00:42:56,185 blocks, and hopefully make the process more efficient, right? 732 00:42:56,185 --> 00:42:57,385 Speed it along a little bit. 733 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:03,120 When I spoke with many of the crew members, they told me this 734 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,680 moment that we're in right now where we're using Nomex clothing 735 00:43:07,740 --> 00:43:13,800 and fire engines and all this technology, the drones, the 736 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:20,100 hierarchical structure of a fire crew, the certifications — all 737 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:24,645 of this is this moment that we're passing through because of 738 00:43:24,885 --> 00:43:28,845 over a century of fire suppression. The Yurok need to 739 00:43:28,845 --> 00:43:31,365 adopt these tools to achieve what they want to achieve in 740 00:43:31,365 --> 00:43:35,625 this colonial system, but also because the condition of the 741 00:43:35,625 --> 00:43:41,205 forest requires that level of technology, of safety equipment, 742 00:43:41,625 --> 00:43:48,810 of planning and of organization. It is so extreme compared to 743 00:43:48,810 --> 00:43:53,130 what it was historically. And so the vision that they expressed 744 00:43:53,130 --> 00:43:59,610 to me was that this is a transition from a time of fire 745 00:43:59,610 --> 00:44:03,870 suppression to a future where community members will just be 746 00:44:03,870 --> 00:44:08,295 able to go out into their backyards, into the places where 747 00:44:08,295 --> 00:44:12,435 they gather, and light fires themselves, with their family 748 00:44:12,435 --> 00:44:16,755 members, and yeah, maybe they call in one of the local engine 749 00:44:16,755 --> 00:44:19,635 operators for support. Or maybe that's not even necessary 750 00:44:19,635 --> 00:44:25,575 anymore, because the ecosystem is safe to burn, and people have 751 00:44:25,575 --> 00:44:28,935 become comfortable enough and knowledgeable enough again that 752 00:44:28,935 --> 00:44:32,280 they can just do it when they're ready, when it's time. 753 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,040 Annelia Norris: Absolutely we have to get it back to where 754 00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:39,000 it's safe for people to just light their little Hazel patch 755 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,740 or their acorn grove, or whatever it is, you know. What, 756 00:44:43,740 --> 00:44:47,520 maybe three years from now, I'll I'll come light this up myself, 757 00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:53,205 and then just say hey, I'm gonna light up my Hazel patch So FYI. 758 00:44:53,205 --> 00:44:54,765 You guys could be on standby. 759 00:44:55,425 --> 00:44:59,685 Jordan Spannaus: We do cultural burns and family burns, where we 760 00:44:59,685 --> 00:45:05,265 do bring out families and even children sometimes to come and 761 00:45:05,265 --> 00:45:09,465 watch or get involved in our burns. All the children and 762 00:45:09,465 --> 00:45:12,825 stuff that burn with us get really into it. All talk about 763 00:45:12,825 --> 00:45:16,605 wanting to do this when they get older. So I think everything 764 00:45:16,605 --> 00:45:19,950 that we're doing out here is pretty good for our community, 765 00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:23,010 for all the people around here, I think. 766 00:45:23,970 --> 00:45:26,310 Adam Huggins: That's a really beautiful vision, not just for 767 00:45:26,310 --> 00:45:30,090 fire, but for this time that we're moving through right now, 768 00:45:30,330 --> 00:45:35,730 that there is so much to do. We have to work within sometimes, 769 00:45:35,730 --> 00:45:40,335 and use the tools that the colonial system has to offer. 770 00:45:40,395 --> 00:45:42,915 And then at the same time, we have to be moving towards a 771 00:45:42,915 --> 00:45:46,455 place where maybe we don't need them anymore. Like, people have 772 00:45:46,455 --> 00:45:50,715 been doing this for 1000s and 1000s of years. When you 773 00:45:50,715 --> 00:45:54,975 experience it for yourself, you realize, not only can it be done 774 00:45:55,395 --> 00:46:00,315 safely, it's a thing that we can do proactively in a world full 775 00:46:00,315 --> 00:46:02,055 of forces beyond our control. 776 00:46:02,355 --> 00:46:05,700 Rick O'Rourke: She's like, Oh, I wasn't expecting that. You were 777 00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,160 expecting that monster coming at you, like you see in the news, 778 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,120 right? She's like, Yeah. No, it's not like that. There's ways 779 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,020 to mitigate all those dangers and then be able to put some 780 00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:16,740 fire on the ground. 781 00:46:16,740 --> 00:46:20,100 Adam Huggins: Doesn't have to be rocket science. Doesn't have to 782 00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:20,520 be scary. 783 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,040 Rick O'Rourke: It doesn't have to be scary. They could be just 784 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,020 like peaceful and calming and just a good burn. 785 00:46:39,825 --> 00:46:46,065 Adam Huggins: End of the second day of burning. It is 2am. We 786 00:46:46,065 --> 00:46:57,390 burned until midnight, and I have nothing left. I'm conking 787 00:46:57,390 --> 00:46:57,690 out. 788 00:47:00,750 --> 00:47:04,590 By the third day, I had a drip torch in my hand, and I was 789 00:47:04,590 --> 00:47:07,650 standing in the middle of a burn block that went as far in each 790 00:47:07,650 --> 00:47:08,790 direction as I could see. 791 00:47:15,315 --> 00:47:23,115 Thick patch of poison oak... and Himalayan Blackberry. and it's 792 00:47:23,115 --> 00:47:37,755 on fire! But it's burning really good. Standing in the middle of 793 00:47:37,755 --> 00:47:44,100 an inferno... wild. What a feeling! 794 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,320 We don't talk about it, but wildfires do not only consume 795 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,960 whole landscapes. They they consume living beings. They 796 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,520 consume animals. And in a cultural fire, in a prescribed 797 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,000 fire, the fire is so much less intense, and it's moving so much 798 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,960 more slowly, and it gives many creatures the opportunity to 799 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,545 escape and then to return to habitat that is still intact. 800 00:48:10,625 --> 00:48:15,245 There are, however, some slow moving creatures that might have 801 00:48:15,245 --> 00:48:19,025 gotten out of bed a little bit late that day and need a helping 802 00:48:19,025 --> 00:48:19,385 hand. 803 00:48:19,660 --> 00:48:23,080 Hey, Lloyd, I got a little salamander right here that I'm 804 00:48:23,140 --> 00:48:24,580 gonna take across the road, alright? 805 00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:32,560 Oh, my God, it's freaking adorable, by the way. All right, 806 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:40,540 little buddy, go free. Stay cool. Oh my God, look at you go! 807 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,080 Ah... I love salamanders. 808 00:48:52,405 --> 00:48:56,125 Margo Robbins: All of the plants and animals, they all have a 809 00:48:56,125 --> 00:49:02,605 spirit just like us. And people from this place, our spirit is 810 00:49:02,605 --> 00:49:08,590 connected to all of these things. And so when, you know, 811 00:49:08,830 --> 00:49:13,810 when they're healthy and feel good, that reflects on us, and 812 00:49:13,810 --> 00:49:16,030 it's a link to our health too. 813 00:49:17,290 --> 00:49:19,030 Elizabeth Azzuz: You know the deer are going to come rolling 814 00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:22,690 here tonight. Get rid of their fleas and ticks. They love ash 815 00:49:22,690 --> 00:49:25,570 for that. You know, we've seen all these things. 816 00:49:27,970 --> 00:49:28,930 Adam Huggins: Like what you see, Robert? 817 00:49:30,670 --> 00:49:33,250 Robert McConnell: This backing fire is beautiful. It's gonna 818 00:49:33,250 --> 00:49:35,230 take time, though, because it's so steep in here. 819 00:49:37,390 --> 00:49:39,835 Max Brotman: Good copy. Yeah, we're getting great backing on 820 00:49:39,835 --> 00:49:43,135 this downriver area. Things are looking beautiful. 821 00:49:50,455 --> 00:49:52,780 Amanaka Yancey: There's beauty you have never seen before that 822 00:49:52,780 --> 00:49:53,620 exists in a burn. 823 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,160 Adam Huggins: So for the people who don't have eyes and are in 824 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,080 the future, what are we looking at here? 825 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,240 Will Bruce: Coming down to the last piece of this burn coming 826 00:50:05,260 --> 00:50:12,880 into a nice steep section with fire gently backing through fir 827 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:20,665 trees, Hazel, Bay trees. Kind of like everybody's just in this 828 00:50:22,165 --> 00:50:33,625 meditative state, just helping it walk down the hill. You know, 829 00:50:33,625 --> 00:50:37,825 you can see, it's just like bringing itself down so nicely. 830 00:50:37,825 --> 00:50:43,870 Adam Huggins: What do you think be here till midnight putting 831 00:50:43,870 --> 00:50:44,470 things out? 832 00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:47,650 Will Bruce: Yeah, that seems like a fair guess to me. 833 00:50:49,150 --> 00:50:53,710 Adam Huggins: When a fire has burned its way through a given 834 00:50:53,710 --> 00:50:57,070 burn block, it's time to put it out. 835 00:50:57,730 --> 00:51:01,150 Robert McConnell: We're gonna just touch on our mop up plan, 836 00:51:01,150 --> 00:51:02,170 Mech Ney-kem kue po-o. 837 00:51:02,650 --> 00:51:05,995 Adam Huggins: Because fire suppression has in many ways, 838 00:51:05,995 --> 00:51:09,295 been a very militaristic practice. The term that is often 839 00:51:09,295 --> 00:51:13,795 used for that is mopping up. But mopping up is a term that was 840 00:51:13,795 --> 00:51:17,995 basically used for when soldiers go across the battlefield, look 841 00:51:17,995 --> 00:51:23,935 for anybody who's still alive, and kill them. So the CFMC calls 842 00:51:23,935 --> 00:51:26,020 the penultimate stage in the burn... 843 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,340 Amanaka Yancey: Kem kue po-o. We were saying Mech Ney-kem kue 844 00:51:28,340 --> 00:51:30,380 po-o, which is put the water on the hot stuff. 845 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,140 Adam Huggins: Amanaka Yancey, she was my squad lead. 846 00:51:33,260 --> 00:51:35,540 Amanaka Yancey: Then they shortened it to Kem kue po-o, 847 00:51:35,540 --> 00:51:37,400 which is... put water on it. 848 00:51:38,060 --> 00:51:41,960 Adam Huggins: And it is the unglamorous job of trudging 849 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,940 through the ashy landscape with shovels and piss pumps, and 850 00:51:46,940 --> 00:51:49,660 putting a little bit of water and a little bit of elbow grease 851 00:51:49,660 --> 00:51:52,805 into making sure that every last part of that fire is out. It 852 00:51:52,805 --> 00:51:57,125 definitely feels like something you don't want to do at 1am 853 00:51:57,185 --> 00:52:00,905 after you've been burning for 10 hours straight, but it is a very 854 00:52:00,905 --> 00:52:02,105 important part of the job. 855 00:52:03,485 --> 00:52:05,705 Imagine you end up spending a lot of evenings this way. 856 00:52:12,485 --> 00:52:12,965 Margo Robbins: Mmm... guess so. 857 00:52:12,965 --> 00:52:13,505 Isabel Guerra: I love my job. 858 00:52:16,745 --> 00:52:19,430 Adam Huggins: That night, I didn't record anything before 859 00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:22,670 bed, I just hit the ground and was gone. 860 00:52:27,590 --> 00:52:34,190 The day that I left, I woke up so tired and so sore, and all I 861 00:52:34,190 --> 00:52:38,450 could think was... where are we going to burn next?? 862 00:52:42,215 --> 00:52:45,215 Mendel Skulski: This episode of Future Ecologies was recorded 863 00:52:45,215 --> 00:52:50,015 and reported by my co-host, Adam Huggins. It was edited and 864 00:52:50,015 --> 00:52:52,055 produced by me. Mendel Skulski. 865 00:52:52,895 --> 00:52:55,355 It featured the voices of Elizabeth Azzuz 866 00:52:55,415 --> 00:52:57,215 Elizabeth Azzuz: Just me and my big mouth. You know, I don't 867 00:52:57,875 --> 00:52:58,079 know what possesses me to open the damn thing. 868 00:52:58,079 --> 00:52:58,085 Mendel Skulski: Dylan Stevens 869 00:52:58,085 --> 00:52:59,900 Dylan Stevens: When we were prepping, I was like, I think 870 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:04,700 these roots are gonna catch on fire. They did. 871 00:53:04,940 --> 00:53:05,660 Mendel Skulski: Rick O'Rourke 872 00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:07,460 Rick O'Rourke: But I'm compelled to share my knowledge with 873 00:53:07,460 --> 00:53:11,240 people, because it was shared with me from people who forgot 874 00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:12,380 more than I'll ever know. 875 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:13,580 CFMC crew: Margo Robbins 876 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:13,148 Margo Robbins: [Scream] 877 00:53:13,148 --> 00:53:13,888 CFMC crew: [Screams respond in the distance] 878 00:53:13,888 --> 00:53:15,220 Adam Huggins: Look what you started. I gotta work on my 879 00:53:15,220 --> 00:53:16,996 scream a little bit so that it doesn't sound like I'm in 880 00:53:16,996 --> 00:53:17,440 trouble, you know. 881 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,880 Margo Robbins: It's gotta come from deep in your belly. 882 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:25,780 Mendel Skulski: Robert McConnell 883 00:53:25,900 --> 00:53:27,520 Robert McConnell: Let's have fun. Be safe, learn something. 884 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:28,840 Mendel Skulski: Annelia Norris 885 00:53:29,020 --> 00:53:31,600 Annelia Norris: I can still scale these freaking hillsides, 886 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:32,440 so I'm not that old. 887 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:33,580 Mendel Skulski: Isabel Guerra 888 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,740 You put, you put, you put your time in! 889 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:36,820 Amanaka Yancey 890 00:53:36,820 --> 00:53:38,665 Amanaka Yancey: Prescribed fire so hot right now. 891 00:53:38,785 --> 00:53:39,685 Mendel Skulski: Jordan Spannaus 892 00:53:39,985 --> 00:53:42,085 Jordan Spannaus: Gonna take a long time, but this is a good 893 00:53:42,085 --> 00:53:42,625 start. 894 00:53:42,685 --> 00:53:43,465 Mendel Skulski: Claire Brown 895 00:53:43,525 --> 00:53:46,105 Claire Brown: Like a classic FEMO role is to make a report 896 00:53:46,105 --> 00:53:47,005 that nobody reads. 897 00:53:47,305 --> 00:53:48,145 Mendel Skulski: Max Brotman 898 00:53:48,265 --> 00:53:50,305 Max Brotman: We don't say breathing smoke, we say eating 899 00:53:50,725 --> 00:53:50,965 smoke. 900 00:53:52,045 --> 00:53:52,945 Mendel Skulski: And Will Bruce 901 00:53:53,125 --> 00:53:56,065 Will Bruce: I know you wanna burn it all, gotta wait 'til 902 00:53:56,065 --> 00:53:56,305 fall! 903 00:53:57,260 --> 00:54:01,580 Mendel Skulski: and music by C Diab, Thumbug, Adrian Avendaño 904 00:54:02,900 --> 00:54:09,020 G̱a̱mksimoon, and Sunfish Moon Light, plus cover art by the 905 00:54:09,020 --> 00:54:10,640 wonderful Ale Silva. 906 00:54:11,900 --> 00:54:15,020 Adam Huggins: Huge gratitude to the CFMC for making this episode 907 00:54:15,020 --> 00:54:18,440 possible. I talked to lots of other folks and just couldn't 908 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,545 include everything. So thank you to everyone who spoke with me, 909 00:54:22,145 --> 00:54:26,345 and special thanks to Margo Robbins, Fern Purdy, Max 910 00:54:26,345 --> 00:54:30,245 Brotman, Claire Brown, Will Bruce, and Amanaka Yancey for 911 00:54:30,305 --> 00:54:33,305 corresponding with me, helping me put this piece together, 912 00:54:33,545 --> 00:54:37,445 hosting me, helping me get my qualifications and keeping me 913 00:54:37,445 --> 00:54:40,685 out of trouble on the line. Big thanks to the Confluence Lab at 914 00:54:40,685 --> 00:54:44,450 the University of Idaho, and especially Sasha White, who 915 00:54:44,450 --> 00:54:47,930 supported me through this process. Thanks also to Anita 916 00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:49,010 and Micah Williams. 917 00:54:49,790 --> 00:54:54,470 Mendel Skulski: You can find the CFMC at culturalfire.org. You 918 00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:59,390 can find us and all of our episodes at futureecologies.net, 919 00:54:59,630 --> 00:55:03,950 or wherever you listen to podcasts. We make this podcast 920 00:55:04,130 --> 00:55:08,195 and keep it ad free with the support of our incredible 921 00:55:08,195 --> 00:55:13,355 patrons, who we literally cannot thank enough. To join them, head 922 00:55:13,355 --> 00:55:18,275 to patreon.com/futureecologies, and help us make the show for as 923 00:55:18,275 --> 00:55:22,475 little as $1 a month. We've got a back catalog of exclusive 924 00:55:22,475 --> 00:55:27,275 bonus episodes, 50% discounts on all merch, a Discord server, a 925 00:55:27,275 --> 00:55:31,340 book club and more. Plus, you can show off your name at 926 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:38,180 futureecologies.net/join — forever. But the biggest favour 927 00:55:38,180 --> 00:55:41,480 you can do us is free. We believe stories can change the 928 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,560 world, and really, that's why we make this show, but we need your 929 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:50,000 help for them to spread... and maybe even catch fire. 930 00:55:51,020 --> 00:55:53,225 'til next time. Stay lit.