I usually, I'm a really bubbly, happy, positive

person, but I wasn't anymore.

Everyone around me noticed that, my husband included.

It was like, okay, we need to do something about this.

I remember we were working on the beach and I broke in tears.

I was like, I can't just think to go back to the office anymore.

I just can't.

Our space, our house, home office has not only a space where you

live, but it's a space that need to nurture and restore you.

Welcome to Architecture Business Club, the show that helps

you build a better business in architecture so you can enjoy more

freedom, flexibility, and fulfillment.

I'm your host, John Clayton, and if you're joining us for the first time, don't

forget to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode.

We're joined by Nicola De.

The founder of Nicola d Interiors, after experiencing the healing power of nature

and color in her own life, Nicola founded Nicola d Interiors to help others create

bold biophilic spaces that support happiness, health, and personal growth.

Nicola helps people turn the homes into joyful nature inspired sanctuaries,

spaces that heal, energize, and make them happier and healthier.

To connect with Nicola on Instagram or LinkedIn, just click one of

those links in the show notes.

Nicola, welcome to Architecture Business Club.

Hi, John.

Thank you very much for inviting me.

I am really happy to be here.

It is a pleasure to have you here, Nico.

I've been really looking forward to this conversation today.

But before we dig into our big topic that we're going to be exploring I, I would

love to hear a bit more about the things that you enjoy doing outside of your work.

So could you tell me a little bit about some of the things that you like to do?

Yes, sure.

I'm a big.

Animal lover and I have a um, nine 9-year-old, old Border

Collie, a dog, which I take out for long walks twice a day.

That's really, I love doing that.

I do love spending time by the sea and swimming.

That's one of my.

The things I loved most, I would say.

And I do love traveling actually.

I do love like traveling and discovering new cultures, and especially admire

the architecture in every place I go.

I've got this passion for architecture as well, so I love seeing the

difference in every country.

That's something that really I'm really passionate about.

Mm. I love that we've got some very similar interests.

I'm also a dog lover.

We have a Romanian rescue, which, hopefully we'll behave herself while

we're doing the recording today.

'cause she is dotted around on the floor in the office somewhere right now.

And uh, yeah, I absolutely share a love of travel as well.

So, um, yeah, we often, we, We like to have a chat about travel actually,

with the guests on this show we'll touch upon that a little bit later

on in our, our conversation today.

But we are going to talk about what we, we're actually, we're

gonna hear about your story.

We are gonna hear.

Your story, some of the experiences that you've been through in your career,

and find out why you decided to embrace Bold by Fillic Design as your USP.

And this is it's a really interesting career journey.

So I think the listeners are gonna really enjoy this one.

And you've mentioned that love of travel, you.

You've lived in a few different places, haven't you?

Because you're originally from Italy and you lived in London for some time,

and you recently moved to Spain as well, near Barcelona, is that right?

yes, correct.

Yeah.

Originally I'm from the south of Italy from pya, what they

call the heel of the boot.

And I moved to England was like.

Over 20 years ago now actually I did spend 20 years living in UK and uh,

officially I'm an English citizen already, and I, I did enjoy my life there.

A master admit, it's where I grew up as a. It's a professional, I would say.

And then after that, because of my husband work, we moved to Spain nearby in a town

called Castel, defer nearby Barcelona.

But I'm always between London and Barcelona at the moment.

So I'm as I said, I love traveling and I love the fact that every three months I

go to London where I still have clients.

So I don't mind being, um.

citizen of the world.

So I spend a bit of time in uk, in Spain, in Italy, where my family still is.

So yes I like that quite a lot.

But for unforeseen reason, we decided to, to live England and live in Spain now.

So, yes.

Yeah, I

don't wanna make you jealous, but still hot here, just

Yeah, I am a little bit envious.

It was a little bit cool this morning um, in the uk yeah.

Yeah.

Don't, Don't kind of rub it in too much about the nice

I won't, I won't.

What we're gonna do though, we're gonna rewind a little

bit because I want to begin the story that we're gonna be sharing, the kind

of chapter from, from your life today.

We're gonna start by looking at when you moved from Italy to London.

That time when you were working as a project manager you secured

a position as a project manager.

After moving to London, could you tell us a little bit about that time, about

what life was like then, what the role was like and the work environment?

Just to paint the picture of what life was like at that time for you.

Yeah, of course.

Uh, Yes.

I, I had this role in a company in um, central London.

Actually, our office was based between Lester Square and Common Garden.

I loved my job.

As a project manager, I didn't have any problem with that, unfortunately.

The office situation, it wasn't ideal because especially my department was

based in the underground floor, and that meant that I left home uh, seven

o'clock, seven 30 in the morning.

It was dark.

I came back home, it was dark, and we were in the office with our

natural light, with our window, just with artificial light all day.

And that was drive me crazy.

Every hour I had to step out of the office and go in the street to breathe

and to look at the sky and to, to be outdoor because I, that was like, it

was like nearly a mousetrap I felt like.

Honestly, I didn't feel well.

I worked there for one year.

Obviously as you can imagine, job wise, it was a little bit stressful,

but for me, the main stress was the place I was working in.

All my colleagues were absolutely fine, my bosses well, but the place

where I was working, it was killing me.

So I just chat with my husband.

I said, listen.

Things are not working for me here.

I need to take a decision.

What am I going to do?

And I'm not generally the person that change jobs every year.

But anyway, after here at this uh, epiphany like, okay,

I need to leave this job.

And I decided to change career.

So I decided to study interior design.

You need to know that I wanted to be an architect, but.

I just studied something different, studied foreign languages in the end.

So there was still me and I decided to design, start study, interior design, and

that's how my life change for the better.

So that was quite a change.

Was there anything in particular that, that led to that decision

for that career change?

You mentioned that the environment that you're working in, you said that it

was like a. Basement level office and it was like all artificial lighting.

Not a great, it doesn't sound like a great working environment to be in.

Was that the main thing, would you say that kind of led to

that change of direction?

It was that, and it was the fact that for some life

experience I did suffer with depression.

Probably was a combination of things, probably the lack of life.

Those things that were happening in my life the stressful life all

combined together led me to be unwell.

So I had to do something.

Probably the first thing that came to mind, okay, I need to leave this job.

So I left the job uh, because of um, yeah the, the work environment

because of my mental health.

It was an ideal, and I never felt so low.

So down without energy.

Yeah.

Depressed.

I think he was, I mean, really the right word is I had no, I

lost interest in everything.

It wasn't myself anymore.

I wasn't myself anymore.

I usually, I'm a really bubbly, happy, positive person, but

that kind of, I wasn't anymore.

Everyone around me noticed that, my husband included.

It was like, okay, we need to do something about this.

And during a trip to actually to Cornwall, we did discuss that.

I remember we were working on the beach and I was like, I broke in tears.

I was like, I can't just think to go back to the office anymore.

I just can't.

As much as I love the job, but the place wasn't working for me, it wasn't

Yeah, that sounds really tough.

How did that period of depression affect your career then?

Well, At first I thought I, I was done with work because I. I

left the job with the idea, okay, I leave this job, I am gonna study interior

design, I'm gonna start my business.

But unfortunately, every time you try to plan, life has got different plans.

Things didn't go that way because I was really bad.

I was depressed.

I couldn't study, I couldn't do anything really.

So I told them my career was over.

'cause I said, okay, from a really high position project manager, love my

job, woman in career and everything.

Okay, I'm nothing now.

I'm doing nothing.

I'm just sitting home.

What do I do in my life?

And it did affect my career because probably for a couple

of years I didn't work at all.

And what it looked to be a really bad period, the worst

period of my life actually.

Now I can say it turned to be a. The best because it's when I took the best

decision, which was to change career, do something that I really love.

It doesn't feel like even a work, a job, which is interior design.

And um, it was a time when I, I could pose and think

And say, okay, what is going well?

What is not, what can I do to live better?

Um, It was the time when we actually got the dog and that made me even

happier and thanks to the dog.

It was when I started going out because I had this little puppy I needed walking.

They need to socialize, start going to the park, my local park, get

to know my neighbors, get to go out and enjoy the outdoor more.

So probably that's why I love this dog.

Because it's been my life savior in a way.

And um, yeah, starting, going out more getting to know people

by also enjoying watching how nature changed during the season.

I remember spending so much time out during, in, in the park, just staying

with the dog or just going for a walk or just sitting there and enjoying.

And I must submit.

There was the first click in my mind when I said, okay, this is working.

I like being here from wanting to be home because when you are anxious, when you're

depressed, your home became your refuge.

You wanna be there, your safe space.

But then I started feeling okay, actually I feel good when I go to the park

and wanted to be there more and more.

Yes.

It's, when something clicked, I said okay, nature is helping me.

I really start thinking, okay, I really like this and I am gonna say

something a bit awkward here, but I became one of those hugging the trees.

A tree hugger.

Yeah I, yeah, I did.

And you know, they say there is this exchange of energy.

Between a tree and a person.

And he actually I think that I felt that in some way.

And uh, but just simply looking at nature, hearing the little bird song or I dunno,

watching other dogs, the dogs playing.

It was just so relaxing, so good for my mental health that I became addicted to

it, which is a good addiction, I guess.

oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's that's lovely that, that getting the dog in the first instance was maybe

the beginnings of getting you out and getting you out amongst nature and.

Yeah.

Then getting to that realization point of recognizing

that this was one of the things that was kind of feeding your soul

and, and making you feel better.

And there's lots of, there's lots of studies that talk about the benefits

of getting out amongst nature, even if it's just a short walk during the

day, you know, just to get, go to the local park for 20, 30 minutes.

I have a thing where, we, I do tend to get out fairly often being a dog

owner, but I, if for whatever reason I am at home working in the home

office, and maybe it's a day or two where my wife has done the dog walks,

whatever, and I can feel a tension.

Like I, I feel like sometimes I'll say, oh I feel like I. Climbing the walls.

I need to get outside and I need to, and all I need to do is just go out somewhere.

It doesn't even matter so much where it is, but it's just a thing of just

getting outside and, going somewhere for a walk or something, even for just

30 minutes and I can feel a lot better.

So yeah, absolutely.

Even just going to your garden.

I mean, That makes uh, uh, your mind comes down and even my husband like

start walking the dog in the morning and now he says if I skip that

because of work, for example, and I go say, I miss that all day long.

I really need that morning walk with the dog, because he sets his day like.

I really enjoyed that, so it is lovely to hear that from another person.

You know that you started to appreciate nature and

how that can make you feel better.

And you'd already you'd started that.

Change of career direction.

You'd started doing your studies to, study interior design, but it

was 2018 when you did start your own interior design business.

Can you tell me how that came about?

Like what led up to that event in 2018 when you finally

decided to launch your business?

Yeah.

Obviously I am.

I was studying at this study, at some point I realized I was at that age

where I couldn't, I didn't want to go and work for someone else, right?

Or at least I did some experience working with someone else just

to get some, practice and to see how other interior design work.

But then I said, I wanna set my business, I wanna work for myself.

And I didn't launch my business actually until 2000, end of 2019.

You, if you remember, few months later, March, April, 2020, there was that big.

remember.

Yeah, probably it wasn't ideal to set the business

then, but I think everything came into place for me in terms it was a puzzle.

So my personal experience of not being well then wanting to set up into

design business, then I, I. By chance I went to um, a seminar in London

where one of my tutor from school was talking about biophilic design.

I heard, I watch it.

I love the slides she was showing and they really make me think like.

hang on a minute.

This is exactly what my mom has always done.

For me, everything she was explained, the connection with nature, introducing nature

at home, or spending time with nature.

Being southern Italian for me was absolutely normal.

I used to spend time outdoor and I grew up in the countryside, or

my parents' house in town anyway, was surrounded by olive trees.

It's always been connection with nature.

Just realized that's always been part of my life.

So was really curious about this biofield design thing.

Started looking on internet, buying books, reading essays, white papers, you name it.

I just got all the information because it was like, okay, this is really

something that interests me and I was really in line with who I am and,

but it wasn't until recently when I really actually said, okay, this is

my USP, because then, start my job.

Obviously during CODI had to do project online.

It wasn't the best time, very difficult, blah, blah, blah.

And then when I did, I start working with a coach is when my passion came out, which

is nature, bold colors, and that's when.

She helped me to say, okay, that's really you.

You could combine this and bring this into your business and also

to other client, to your client.

Your added value.

It's that, is that your knowledge of biophilic design?

Your knowledge of psychology?

Psychology, the love of colors, and that's how.

Nicola the interiors was born and how my USP was born.

Really based on who I am and what I love, and based on my experience,

my own experience of know of seeing that, connecting with nature

health, with my mental health.

And in that phase I starting as well to redecorate my house completely.

As much as my husband wasn't really not on it, it was like, oh my God, you, Chrissy

woman, but is a very neutral person.

So you can imagine my world were gray or really, minimalistic.

And when I was at home, I did realize that my environment make me feel sad.

It didn't work for me.

I wanted bright color.

I needed color, so I start to redecorate in the walls.

I put really bright object accessories in the house, change the curtain,

put in more plants, and suddenly the atmosphere, the energy in the home

changed completely and they affected me.

He did help me to feel happier, to feel better.

So it's really based on firsthand experience.

I would say,

Yeah, I mean our, yeah, our E environment.

It can affect us so much as you say, just that, that thing of adding some color

to, to your home to that environment could make a huge difference for you.

Absolutely.

Absolutely,

Could you tell me a little bit about the early days when

you first started your business?

Could you tell me a little bit about that?

What did you find hardest when you first started?

A part that I did start during COVID, which

it's a si, a chapter in itself.

I think obviously I'm a creative person and I am.

I didn't have that business skillset, if you like.

So when it came to pricing my services how do I present my services to

the client who are my ideal client, I was struggling a lot with that.

Also, it wasn't easy to find my own voice.

At the beginning, me being Italian, I said, oh yeah, I just start

talking about Italian design.

Maybe I can work with Italian supplier, blah, blah, blah.

Did the market research and then where the market was saturated with

that, I was like, okay, there's not gonna be nothing new there.

There's gonna be anything new there.

So finding my voice, it took years.

I would say probably a good three years.

And that's been a long, tough process of changing my mind.

Changing, I dunno.

I wanted to change the name of the business.

I didn't really know who I was professionally, what could I

do for my client, the other interior designer weren't doing.

And then I think, as I was saying earlier, it was like a little puzzle.

Every little pieces start.

together and what it was my passion for nature, passion for color, became

my bold biophilic design business.

And I could say that probably the artist part is really finding my voice

and finding one, defining my voice.

It was asking myself, what can I do for people?

What can I do for my client?

What can I do that's more than delivering a beautiful space?

It's a beautiful space.

All us interior designer can do that, but what can I give

this an added value to them?

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

What is the, what's your sort of niche or specialism, what's the secret source

that, that only you can help people with?

As you say, like you could just go to any interior designer and get like a nice

space designed, but what is the thing that's unique about working with you?

And you're absolutely right that's something that can be

really difficult to figure out.

It can take a bit of time and a lot of.

Self-reflection to get to that point where you really do know yourself well enough

and find that alignment between, what it is that you are passionate about, what

you've got skills in, and um, and where there's alignment with your prospective

clients, you know, so that you have a product or service and the right message

to, to communicate what you do to them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Certainly can take a little bit of time.

Have you got an interesting story about running your architecture practice?

Have you done something different in your business that's been hugely successful?

Or has a failure taught you an important lesson that you'd be willing to share?

Then why not apply to be a guest on this podcast?

Just click the link in the show notes to send us your

details and get started today.

And if you're joining us for the first time, don't forget to hit

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Now let's get back to the show.

Do you recall the first time that you heard about biophilic design?

Because it's not a term that most people just won't be familiar with it.

Do you remember the first time you heard about it and what you thought about it?

Yes I, I remember clearly I was in London.

It was more or less this time of the year, when there is like a focus, when there is

a decor and all this interior design fair.

And I was in um, in Chelsea Arbor with where I raised the.

The design center.

And um, there were different talks, different seminars, and there was

one in this amazing shop where they used to sell rugs inspired by nature.

They, honestly, I remember a rug, they looked like a coral.

It was fantastic.

So I was attracted, but the colors, so I went in, I sat there, I

recognized one of my tutors, the tutor from the school where I studied.

I said, okay, I sit down and I'm gonna listen.

And she was, talking about biophilic design.

I was like, okay.

I was attracted by the images, which had lots of nature, lots of plants

were beautiful calming images.

So I sat down and I started listening to the talk.

And obviously biophilic design didn't mean anything to me.

I was like, okay, what's this?

And but the more she was explaining what it was, how it's, um.

introduced to design to architecture.

And the more I was engaged, I was like, okay.

And it really felt because of what happened to me, I

was like, this makes sense.

This, it was like a. Bald moment.

Like those are lighting moments when you feel like, oh my God, yes.

And um, and yes.

And then I went back home.

I remember like, um, taking the name of this person and she recommend a

couple of books to read the essay.

So I started reading and that started educate myself.

But I do agree.

Now it's how many years later?

Probably five, six years later.

I just delivered a talk on Tuesday.

No one knew what biophilic means, and they go well, I bio.

What?

Then when you start explaining it, it is about nature introduces nature.

They all think oh, okay, but still, it's a word that I've been told the other day.

Don't use it in your message because people disengage, don't understand it.

It was like, yeah, but.

The point is to educate people as well, to know what it is and

to recognize the word and to make it more like maybe sustainable.

20 years ago it was a new word, right?

No one knew what it was so yes.

I still a. People that don't know it, but I am, I'm trying to find an easier way to

put it, but the end of the day is really reconnecting People with nature Indoor

simply said, that's way it is and it's,

I think it's I think it's okay to use the word, it's fine.

I guess it's a case of.

Knowing your audience that if you are talking to a room of architects and

designers, they are very likely to understand what it is, or at least

heard of it, they're gonna know.

Whereas if it is a homeowner that is looking to do something

with their interiors, then I guess that's the thing where.

A little bit more explanation around what we designing with nature, to give them

a little bit more explanation with, and it's just, that's just a messaging thing.

I think just making sure that the messaging is right for the particular

audience that you're talking to.

And one day that, as I say, that could be the room full of architects

and the next week it could be a homeowner that's planning to do.

A renovation of their interiors in their home.

And in that instance then maybe the language is slightly different,

but then as you say, there's an opportunity to educate people about it.

You know, We design with nature.

Oh, by the way, did you know this is called biophilic design

and this is what it's all about.

And you can teach them something new at the same time.

Yes.

Yes, indeed.

Yes, I agree.

was that.

When you heard about it, when you heard about biophilic design, would you say

that was the moment when everything clicked and came together for you?

Or was there another occasion?

Was there another moment?

'cause earlier in the conversation you talked about, it was like over a period

of time there was like pieces of the puzzle that were slowly coming together.

Was there a particular moment when it all clicked and you were like, yes, this

is exactly the direction that I want to go in and this is what I want to do.

Yes.

Yeah, you're right there.

It wasn't straightforward.

It was a really.

Long process because yes, I heard the biophilia design.

Yes, I read books and whatever.

But it wasn't until probably two years ago to different differentiate

my income, my business, and I wanted to create a course, an online course.

'cause now.

Online courses, digital courses are quite popular and people are used to do things

online and I was like, okay, what do I do?

What do I talk about?

And that's when working with a coach, this strengths and this passion came along.

And uh, and then, and then I was like, yeah, I know a lot about

biophilic design and uh, well, well, why doesn't reflect in your business,

in your, even on your website.

I was like I didn't really.

Know how to put that, how to introduce that, and that during the creation of this

course, and a lot of mind mapping, a lot of thinking, I think that being a business

owner probably you appreciate that, is a, is nearly a personal journey as well,

as much as a business journey because you kind of reflect a lot on who you are.

Who you resonate with in terms of clients, what do you wanna do?

It's a lot of self discovering at the same time.

So at that point, it was when, two years ago, when everything was absolutely clear,

and it was when I decided that I wanted to give this particular focus or angle to,

to my business and, so combining my love for Colin, combining my love for nature,

I came out with bold biophilic design as well, because usually when we talk about

biophilic design, everyone connected with plants think, oh, it's a putting

a couple of plants there and there, and all this beige neutral environment, which

is not, or at least it's not just that.

Think how many bold colors there are in nature, fruit, flowers,

there are so many bold colors.

So why do we have to think of biophilic design as a neutral environment?

It could be bold.

Okay.

So that's when I decide, okay I think this is me and this is how

I wanna create a my own niche.

Which is directed to people that like me, love colors, love nature,

and they want that into their houses or not just the houses, the offices,

the any indoor space really doesn't have to be limited to their houses.

It can be office, restaurant, hotels even hospitals.

I mean there are, I don't understand why hospital have to be so gray and

sad, like people are already sad there.

We need to help them to feel better, and I understand maybe can have

real plants because of people may be allergic or for hygiene or whatever,

but we can introduce nature indirectly.

With nice landscape, picture, nice colors and reminds of nature.

There is so much going on in this industry at the moment.

Talk, talking about how can a architecture and design as well can help people to feel

better and to feel nurtured by design, not just from an aesthetically point of view.

And I love that about biophilic design.

There's just no link to how a space is gonna look like, is how

a space is gonna make people feel.

And as you mentioned there, particularly in healthcare environments,

hospitals, health centers, places like that, this would be such a benefit for

the occupants of those buildings to be able to have a space that made you.

Feel better just being in the space.

You feel better and that's something absolutely that

we could achieve with this.

So just actually while we're on the subject as the benefits, just let's

just pretend that I'm somebody that doesn't know anything about this.

Yes.

Could you just share some of the benefits of bold biophilic design?

We've already talked about a few things there already, if I was

somebody that you'd just met and I knew nothing about it, how would you

explain it to me and, make sure that I, understand the benefits of it.

I think I will give you an example here because there's been

a study a long time ago, a research made in a hospital in Singapore

where patient they were exposed to nature, proved to recover quicker.

They were asking for less painkiller.

And they were less anxious.

The patient that were a more enclosed traditional room, hospital room, they

actually took longer for them to recover.

They needed more painkillers, they were anxious, blah, blah, blah.

What did, what was the result of this study that connecting with nature?

Was actually helping people to feel better and is being proved by many other studies.

I mean is biophilic design is a research based approach.

I really want to, I like that because it's not just a style or a fashion or a trend.

It's backed up by research and it's been proven to reduce blood pressure.

It helps with increasing creativity and productivity.

He helps with mental health, improves the with the depression, anxiety.

Lots of G gp, even in England, recommending to depressed

people to start gardening.

Yeah.

Why is that?

Because you are a door, you are exposed to natural light.

Natural light is set to regulate our circadian rhythm, which is

our internal biological clock.

So we regulate the awakened sleeping time the soil, if you can contact

with the soil container, substances, and natural antidepressant.

What I'm trying to say, that introducing nature indoor with plants with view to

the outdoor, with colors inspired by nature has a big effect on our mind.

And the effect is like we feel calmer, reduce stress.

There are big companies like, am I allowed to mention big companies?

Yeah, Amazon Google for example, they embraced it.

There is an office, I think it's in Atlanta or an Amazon office, they

have something called the Spheres, which is this big space full with.

Plants is nearly the Q Gardens like with all this plant is amazing just to watch

it and people, employees go there, to have meetings, to have a walk, to relax.

Why if this big name having in, why do you think this big name has embrace it?

Because of the wellbeing of the employees.

So there are so many benefit and I can talk for myself firsthand experience.

It does help.

With mental issues, depression, anxiety.

I'm not gonna say that's the only way.

No, it does help.

I mean, Why not?

a lot of benefits there.

This is a sentiment that was shared by my late father-in-law.

Um, He often used to talk about fresh air and dirt.

This was like his antidote for any ailment or illness.

It was always like, oh, he just fresh air and dirt.

That's what you need.

Just get out there in nature.

A retired farmer, so very much connected to the land.

It's, there's a lot of truth in this for sure.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I just mention something quickly?

Just think about many centuries ago, where were we living in the countryside?

Okay.

And life.

Did they talk about stress back then?

No.

We were in contact with nature.

We were like foraging.

We were outside.

We didn't spend so much sitting.

We were outdoor what happened, and now we spend 99% of our day

sitting indoor working in the home.

Your office, you go to the gym, you traveling by train, by car.

You name it, we are indoor all the time, so we lost that.

Connection is an instinct.

We, as human being, we are made to be living in nature.

Clearly with industrial revolution, life changing, lifestyle changed,

our life changed, but we have to act now and do something to.

To go a little bit back and to reconnect with nature as much as we can.

So to those that don't have the time to spend, I dunno, maybe an hour as we

do work our dog in the morning, maybe just spend 20 minutes out outside,

like just enjoying the natural light.

Or look into a tree, look into a garden just to, because even those 20 minutes

help our brain a lot and reduce stress.

So for me it's I dunno, for me it, it's, that's my main message,

Yeah.

I love that.

So compared to your dark days in that underground office as

a project manager um, what does your typical week look like now?

I do.

Lots of different things.

Some days I may be sitting and just working on a client project, designing

and um, choosing fabric colors.

Other days I am gonna be on site based on the project.

Other days, maybe I go out and do networking.

As this week I've been doing a lot of recording interviews and things like that.

'Cause I'm focusing quite a lot in getting the word out there.

Getting, to, not myself, but biophilic design visibility a lot.

And obviously I do I do go out every day.

I can go to my local park, I can go to the seaside for a walk.

I try to squeeze in at least an hour outdoor every day.

But at the moment it's obviously, with.

This life split between England and Spain.

I need to settle my business here.

I need to do a lot of network and get to know a lot of people.

And that gave me the opportunity to explore Barcelona quite a lot, which is

amazing from architecture point of view.

So it, it varies like during the week I can do different things.

And that's why I love about this job.

'cause probably one of the reason I left the corporate word is that I

couldn't cope with the nine to five.

Work anymore and doing always the same thing, being always in the same

place.

That was killing me while now I have a little bit of everything.

I have days when I don't leave my office, other days when I

don't sit at all at my desk.

Other days I just speak to clients, to people.

love that.

And I, I dedicate sometimes to my online course I talk to my students it can be

Yeah.

Good.

It sounds like you have a nice variety.

Nicola, what would be the main thing that you would like to

leave everyone with today?

What's the main thing you'd like them to take away from our conversation?

Problem is to think at.

Our space, our house, home office has not only a space where you

live, but it's a space that need to nurture and restore you.

So it has to be a space.

Let's talk about the home, for example.

Our home has to be a space where you live.

Everything outside.

All the stress get outta your mind.

Space needs to support you, to help you to be better, to be healthier,

to be happier, and doesn't have to be a space that stress you out even

more because maybe it's chaotic, it's not functional, it's cluttered, it's

sad because of there are no colors.

A space that need to, I would say, need to reflect your mental

status, your emotional status.

That for me means he has to be a positive space.

Yeah.

That's definitely good advice for sure.

Nicola, I have one quick question for you.

We share a love of travel and I love to travel and discover new places.

I was just wondering if you could share one of your favorite places

and what you love about it.

Ooh, wow.

That's a difficult one because I love traveling.

I love many places.

One that comes to mind is definitely Thailand.

Probably I love the vegetation the lifestyle, the really

calm, really relaxed.

But one of.

The most beautiful places I visit was the Amalfi Coast.

I might be biased because I'm Italian, but I'm gonna mention English Place

as well, but Amalfi Coast, I remember clearly the smell of the lemon trees.

Oh my God, that it's like really engraved in my mind.

And the colors, the colorful houses.

The amazing food I love as well the Chiqua in Tuscany again, because there is this

corner, I can't remember exactly which town because the Chiqua is five different

little towns on the coast, but one of them has got this bay with colorful houses.

It was just like amazing.

It doesn't look real.

And I love the cots world in England.

wow.

We got free for the price of one though.

Yeah.

Is oh my God.

I just I talked to someone today here in Spain that she's going for a trip

next week and I said, you need to visit BA because it's some, it's just

a tiny little out of this word town.

So I think these are my favorite places I travel

Or some solid choices there.

NICoE, thanks again for being a guest on the show.

Really appreciate you sharing your story.

And I'll just gonna double check again, where's the best place for

people to connect with you online?

Definitely Instagram.

I'm there as Nicola the Interiors or LinkedIn as well.

LinkedIn as Nicola Lia, my name and surname those two platform.

Then there is the website as well, but I'm quite active on.

To on this two platform.

So happy to

okay, I'll make sure that we put those links to

your profiles in the show notes.

Nicola, thanks again ever so much.

Thank you very much, John for having me.

It's been a pleasure and I hope you and your listeners enjoy.

You know the topic of today recording really.

Thank you very much for having me.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode

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