Natasha Madison
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Laura Yamin: [00:00:00] Hi Natasha, welcome to What's your Next Podcast?
Natasha Madison: Hi Laura. Thank you so much for having me.
Laura Yamin: I am so excited to chat with you. As I was telling you before the chat we're my friends and I, my OG friends we're longtime friends of your work and we are just like always excited for your new releases. So let's just chat. One of the
Natasha Madison: To, to this day, I'm still baffled when people are like, oh my God, I love your books. And I'm like, oh my God, you read me. It's still
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: surreal.
Laura Yamin: Yes. I think
Natasha Madison: still surreal.
Laura Yamin: Being social creator, creating art, and like creating some service, like people consume it. You're like, but I'm just doing it because I enjoy it or I'm doing it because it's something that's just part of who I am. But like the consumption of it and like actually having feedback and like good and like people obsessed with the, and like what is happening?
Natasha Madison: I was, yesterday I went to, I saw my dad's cousin that I haven't seen in like forever. And we were at this family gathering and she looks at me and I hadn't seen her, I think it was like [00:01:00] maybe 15, 20 years. And she goes. I have to say I've read all your books and that Stone family, I just love them and my father's wait.
I was like, what? And she goes, yeah. She goes, my favorite is Dylan. I really love this story. And she literally was going on and on and my father, all my father could have done was like, wait, you, you really read her books? I was like, oh my God. And then he didn't get the gist of it. 'cause I'm like, I wonder if she subscribes to my newsletter?
'cause she's not on social media. And he goes, don't you get a list of people that buy your books? I'm like, dad.
That's not how it works. So it was like, it was the eye opening for him
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: and shocking for me. 'cause I was like, wait.
Laura Yamin: Yeah, I'm kinda, it's interesting you're like, oh, I'm shocked. Like I'm kinda, I've talked to plenty of authors who write romance and they're, they don't share [00:02:00] that with the parent pickup line. They have no idea. And like, when they find out, like you're an author, you're like, what is happening here? What kind of books are you reading? 'cause it's, I, at least now the post 2020 is a little bit more, it's no longer taboo, but it was taboo
Natasha Madison: I mean, there's still books that are taboo.
Laura Yamin: Yes, but it is no longer writing romances. It's no longer like anything. It's pretty mainstream
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: So it was before 2020. It was like, oh, you're reading romances.
Really? What about literature? What about this? And I was like, no, I just
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: to fall in love,
Natasha Madison: 100% like to like before. I mean now I was like, somebody's well, what do you do? And I'm like, I write romance books. That's what I go with all the time. It's like I write romance books. So, and then it's always followed up with, well, it's spicy.
Like today, somebody's oh my God, you write romance books like Danielle Steele. And I'm like a little bit [00:03:00] spicier than Danielle Steele. And then I have to like, because I was like a huge Danielle Steele fan and I have to think, I think I have to go back and did she do spikes? Maybe she did.
Laura Yamin: she did.
Natasha Madison: Like at the time, that was the spicy.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: It just evolved into a play by play.
Laura Yamin: Yes. A.
Natasha Madison: A whole play by play.
Laura Yamin: Oh my gosh. I, that's a good, that's a good idea. She'll look back on Danielle Steels and even Norris, like writing in the early nineties. Those
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: read Listly from our first, our grandma's nightstand.
Natasha Madison: I think it's I'm actually gonna go back and try to read one of, to see the spiciness,
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: because back then I wonder if she was like the spicy romance author that we are today. It's just yeah. So.
Laura Yamin: I know his, I know Historical Women's Day had a lot of those early eighties and nineties. There was [00:04:00] a lot of non-consent. It was very spicy, but it was non-consent. It was very like, I'm so rubbishing you and doing the things and I think Stephanie Lawrence has this Sinster series. The Sexy is so long, it's two chapters long.
I'm not exaggerated. It's 30 pages of the freaking sexing. I'm like okay. We got it. We got the.
Natasha Madison: We got it. They're doing, they're ravishing each other.
Laura Yamin: They're having fun. Yes. We get it. So it just depends. I like, I think there was an era of time where it was like 30 pages of sex scenes and oh my gosh, you
Natasha Madison: Well,
Laura Yamin: this.
Natasha Madison: I also find it very interesting how the times have changed with having a guy on the cover, like abs showing and then they're like, that's too risky. And I'm like. That Fabio guy was on every single romance novel that you could find back in the eighties, shirtless with his hair blowing in the wind.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: He was the [00:05:00] IT guy to get on your cover.
Laura Yamin: They were naked. There's a couple covers where he's naked. Like we see his bubu, like we see everything and it's like he's just made,
Natasha Madison: They were reading that by the pool. They were reading that by the pool. They were reading that in the bus. They were reading that at Pickup to
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: Kids Pickup. They were reading.
Laura Yamin: No Kindle. It was an actual book.
Natasha Madison: was an actual paperback.
Laura Yamin: Yes. So, okay, Natasha, we gotta do an introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself. We talked about Romans. You're a
Natasha Madison: Oh.
Laura Yamin: We
Like reality and you like true crime, but it has to be solved, which I love.
Natasha Madison: Oh my God I don't sit down with me and let's watch like one of those cold cases and then we at the end, we don't know who it is. I think I was at Shauna's house, we were packing boxes and she put on unsolved mysteries and I'm like,
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: but. Do they, we know who killed the person at the end. She goes, no, that's why it's [00:06:00] unsolved.
I'm like, immediately, no, I, 'cause then I'm going down the rabbit hole, then I'm gonna start googling things. I'm gonna start researching the crime. I need to know, I need to know that there, who did it at the end.
It ha it has to have happily ever after, even in true crime.
So, yeah, I,
Laura Yamin: you.
Natasha Madison: can't do it.
Laura Yamin: So what kind of reality TV shows do you watch? Are you a Bravo? Are you a
Natasha Madison: Oh my God. Well,
Laura Yamin: there's a different flavor. Are you a
Natasha Madison: there is different flavors. I've never done the Housewives, but I've done the below deck.
Laura Yamin: perfect.
Natasha Madison: . I love Below Deck. I'm a te LC girl,
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: so I'm like a 90 day,
Laura Yamin: world, which ones are your go-to? Are you
Natasha Madison: so.
Laura Yamin: sister wis, or are
Natasha Madison: Sister wives is like a must sister, wives is a must. I'll never live the life of a sister, wife. And my husband, like we watch it at it's Sunday night at 10 o'clock. So we're, I'm in bed and he's in bed and he is but why are you [00:07:00] watching this if you're never gonna live it? And I'm like,
Laura Yamin: because I'm sorry, but this is Cody's toxic as fuck.
Natasha Madison: oh my God. The gaslighting that he did for so many years.
Laura Yamin: I, it's been so nice to watch him, like his sister wives unfold and divorce him and letting, and have him finding a voice because, and this is like my favorite season, I'm like, yes, find your voice. Go date other men. Go
Natasha Madison: yeah.
Laura Yamin: because
Natasha Madison: Yeah,
Laura Yamin: not even a morally great red flag. No, he is
Natasha Madison: he is. He is like the biggest red flag.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: And like how, just like the way he walks like he has. I'd have to cut this out, but he walks like he has testicles that are like 50 pounds heavy and his legs have to I watched him
Laura Yamin: know.
Natasha Madison: In the last episode, he was walking to the door and just the way he walked with his hair blowing in the wind,
Laura Yamin: with
Natasha Madison: was like,
Laura Yamin: lifts. Did he
Curl patterns?
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: He's keeping his curl patterns really well, so.
Natasha Madison: So he's literally, he has a blotch of hair here and then he's bald [00:08:00] all here until the back.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: So I find it hilarious that he's on the new, the Special Forces one,
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: and I only watch the, when they troll him.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: Like I'm all there for it. So I'm a huge Sister Wise fan. I was a huge 90 day fiance fan. But then it got like to the point where it's these, they're really not gonna, like this couple really don't, they're not gonna survive.
So it got to the point where that like kind of phased out because it was like, guys, it's a red flag. Like you've never met this girl, not even on FaceTime. Why are you traveling to her country and do go going door to door?
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: So yeah, so I'm, it's kind of like a TLC fan. But then after I like I used to like selling sunset, but then that's like.
Laura Yamin: Then you just got to produce, like it's,
Natasha Madison: Exactly.
Laura Yamin: was like,
Natasha Madison: I really liked, like I [00:09:00] was like a huge The Bachelor
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: back in the beginning
Laura Yamin: Frankie Paul coming into the Bachelor Ed.
Natasha Madison: I saw, which
Laura Yamin: HGTV is gonna remodel the house. The mansion we got some like you're gonna do
Natasha Madison: I listen, she's in her own toxic world, so.
Laura Yamin: she is. It's
Natasha Madison: I hope she find, I hope she finds love. I really do.
Laura Yamin: honestly, I don't think we, I think my issue with the Bachelor, I'm a more love island girly because I like the
Natasha Madison: Oh,
Laura Yamin: date around and you just kiss everyone. Doesn't really matter. No, no one's gonna get married for this. 'cause you in 20, you're like, what? You don't wanna get
Natasha Madison: yeah.
Laura Yamin: time. So I find a bachelor, like the full idea of a wedding and stuff like that. It's
Natasha Madison: yeah.
Laura Yamin: the stake are too high and they don't need to be too high.
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: around. So I feel like hopefully she'll get a couple flings here, couple like fun times, couple sex stuff, and just have going on few dates and have fun, and then just just move on to the next chapter,
Natasha Madison: I hope for her sake. [00:10:00] Speaking of Love Island, I've never watched Love Island, but this season, so
Laura Yamin: season was toxic. It was so bad. It
Natasha Madison: my daughter this she's mom, let's just watch a couple of episodes and like after episode one, I'm like. I would nick toing Bella, Bella dash a,
Sorry, I forgot that. And then I was like,
Laura Yamin: it's
Natasha Madison: oh my, I was so invested in this fucking thing.
Laura Yamin: Yes,
Natasha Madison: So in, and then I'm like, hold on a second. Huda is batch crazy.
Laura Yamin: she is.
Natasha Madison: Like she is one step of that abusive behavior of what she's doing.
Laura Yamin: Oh no. It's darville. It's
Natasha Madison: And how are we allowing that still, if that was a man,
Laura Yamin: because it was a female because they just, it cop out. But if it
Natasha Madison: if that was a man.
Laura Yamin: ejected all the way.
Natasha Madison: So like in the middle of the night, like the first girl who was there and then was not.
Laura Yamin: Yes.[00:11:00]
Natasha Madison: So yeah, I was like a huge.
Laura Yamin: I may, I suggest if you have the time, watch season six, the
Natasha Madison: Yeah, that's what my daughter said. My daughter said Susan six.
Laura Yamin: lead, that season is a lead. You gotta part through the first week, which is kinda like annoying until, and I'll spell it the part when what's her name? Leah has a fught with Rob and Rob escapes to the pool and spends an hour under the pool, legit an hour under the pole
Natasha Madison: Oh my gosh.
Laura Yamin: the fight. it just gets better and better after the.
Natasha Madison: So I might go there.
Laura Yamin: I'll usually skip, here's my suggestion with Long Island. Skip the first episode. We use a lot of fillers, just getting to know the couples and you don't get attached to those couples if
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: so start with the second episode, par through, and then it gets better.
That
Natasha Madison: Okay.
Laura Yamin: is a lead for USA then UK is great. It's a
Natasha Madison: Yeah, I heard the UK one was.
Laura Yamin: to say, I love British people just being dumb, like British Sun people, so.
Natasha Madison: Well, when they brought that [00:12:00] Zach guy, was he even British?
Laura Yamin: Yes, I think so. I
Natasha Madison: Okay.
Laura Yamin: They like, it's for and stuff,
Natasha Madison: Yeah. Well, my favorite was Pepe this year, this season, I think Pepe. I know he totally gaslit us all.
Laura Yamin: But again, that's what Long Island you're not supposed to like, the biggest thing about Long Island is they're gonna become boyfriend, girlfriend, or exclusive. That's the biggest thing. Like you're not expecting them to be married, to be like, we're
Natasha Madison: And who would've thought Ace and Shelly would be like practically the only couple left outside of the Villa?
Laura Yamin: No.
Natasha Madison: Not I,
Laura Yamin: Nope.
Natasha Madison: It took him eight weeks for him to be like, okay, I wanna pick Shelly.
Laura Yamin: Yeah, but Jeremiah has a book club. God bless everyone.
Natasha Madison: Oh yes,
Laura Yamin: He has a book club. So I actually wanted the group chat. It's very heartwarming, him trying to become a book talker and trying to make.
Natasha Madison: Jeremiah, right?
Laura Yamin: Yes,
Natasha Madison: [00:13:00] Yeah.
Laura Yamin: meeting of books and trying to do all these different things. But, the book club is very, book talk is very like, very popular books and that
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: read, which is amusing. But, we, he got the smaller, he figured out he's gonna go into the book talk world and he's just gonna live it up. So,
Natasha Madison: Well, good luck to him.
Laura Yamin: yeah.
Natasha Madison: Good luck to him.
Laura Yamin: Yes. So, all right, so let's talk about Holiday Unscripted because I actually read this thanks to Shauna. So I really enjoyed this coming to the home like wedding.
Yep. Oh my god. So pretty well the, gosh. Oh, so pretty.
Natasha Madison: I did the candy canes that are on the front.
Laura Yamin: yes.
Natasha Madison: I did them on the same, on the sides.
Laura Yamin: Okay. I love it. So for the listeners, she Natasha showed us the deckle edges like not deckle, the,
Natasha Madison: Oh,
Laura Yamin: spray edges of the holiday unscripted, which actually has cute holiday themes, so you should definitely buy it in a physical [00:14:00] form.
Natasha Madison: yes.
Laura Yamin: but we, I got a love at at romance's for she is stranded.
She has to come for a wedding, for a holiday. She doesn't wanna come for the holiday. It, everything wrong happens
Natasha Madison: hates the holidays.
Laura Yamin: hate the
Natasha Madison: coming back home. Her brother's getting married. Everything happens to her. She loses her luggage. Nobody picks her up at the airport. They totally desert her, and then she's shit out of luck by not having a bedroom.
Laura Yamin: Yes. And so she has to stay with her, sort of act, someone who she hooked up with, but he ghosted her and
Natasha Madison: he ghoster though? Did she ghost in?
Laura Yamin: It's a miscommunication
Natasha Madison: there's a definitely a miscommunication that happens and it was fun getting to that miscommunication.
Laura Yamin: yes. But he has a cute dog. He has two cats
Natasha Madison: Has a,
Laura Yamin: fell in love with her.
Natasha Madison: I will say. Baby [00:15:00] Cat is a real cat,
Laura Yamin: okay,
Natasha Madison: actually, my cat. And when he's stuck in the tree, totally my cat, he goes he lives there. Whiskey is also like my puppy that we just got, and Bean is my graphics designer. Her cat. So all the pets are real.
Laura Yamin: Gosh,
Natasha Madison: Yeah,
Laura Yamin: I love this. I actually enjoy like just getting back into Christmas period where you're screwed too. Like I hate Christmas and I'm
Natasha Madison: I really hate Christmas. Like I really hate Christmas, and it was so funny. So I had finished writing the books that I needed to write and I had a not a spare minute, but I was going. Between the hockey and my small town. And I had a break and I'm like, should I write the Christmas story?
And I plotted it out. And then of course to write a Christmas story, you need Christmas music [00:16:00] 'cause is it, and it was the month of May and I was blasting all these Christmas music songs and my son came in the room and said, mom. You're fucking killing us with this fucking Christmas music. You won't even let us listen to Christmas music at Christmas time, and now you're listening to it in the month of May.
And I'm like, I have to get into the zone. I'm already over Christmas and we were in May.
Laura Yamin: Yeah. And now, so, so I was gonna ask, 'cause this is a typical of my question. How do you get in the Christmas zone when it's not Christmas when you're writing this and obviously you hate Christmas, you just like, so what led you to write a Christmas book?
Natasha Madison: I thought it was a good idea at the time.
Laura Yamin: Did you end up falling in love with Christmas?
Are you just no.
Natasha Madison: Everything that like happened in that, like that's wrong with Christmas is in that book. Like it's so commercialized. It's,
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: I mean, I love Christmas for the fact of getting together with your family. That's my [00:17:00] favorite part of Christmas. I don't like the lead up to it.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: I don't like how, I mean, back in the day, I was just happy to get together with my cousins.
Like it didn't matter what was underneath the tree, and now it's expected, this is what I want underneath the tree, that here's my list, here's the spreadsheet, here's the links to buy it. It's just gotten to the point where it's very, it's not about the holiday anymore and getting together. It's about the commercial products.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
I get it. I actually, gifts are not my love language. I hate gifts. I hate receiving gifts. I hate because there was a lot of trauma around that. And so for me, Christmas was like, it was terrible. And for most of my childhood it was like a terrible time because it was like trauma and family toxic things.
. So it's interesting, like I, when I started this podcast, the first episode was a Christmas episode, and I did not read Christmas books, had no idea. I was like, wait, there's Christmas books and stuff like [00:18:00] that. And I, over time I've been doing this for almost 10 years, over time, it's grown to the point where I'm like, well, just gonna have Christmas time. Do I buy into it? I'm like, no. I like the idea of a little bit of escape, a little bit tear and stuff like that. The idea of coming back home, seeing a family, what it could be, what it. Can be, and a little bit of love and a little bit of things, but the idea of like how it is right now, where it's like everything has to be a gift guy.
Everything has to be like a specific thing. You have to go and compete. And
Natasha Madison: Yep.
Laura Yamin: the economy is like tri are
Natasha Madison: Well, it's like the gifts just keep getting bigger and more.
No, they get smaller but more expensive.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: So when my kids were growing up, like they wanted like a Tonka truck, which is 35, do well, back then it was $35. But then as the time went on, they're like, I want an iPad nano, very smaller, but triple the price.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: So it's like the gifts are smaller.
Laura Yamin: Yes, it's a gift. It's a [00:19:00] expectation. It's also double chance to see toxic family, friends, like expectation oh God, I haven't interact with people that I don't wanna interact you.
Natasha Madison: I come from a very big family like we were at Christmas last year, and I think we were just immediate family. We were like 53 people.
Laura Yamin: Holy shit.
Natasha Madison: Yeah, so like we like it's a, when we're getting together, it's okay,
Laura Yamin: The ballroom for that.
Natasha Madison: yeah. Like we have to move couches and get ta like long tables and where are we going to we do potluck and then when do we eat?
Like having 53 people there and get, yeah, it's. It's a kerfuffle,
Laura Yamin: Oh my gosh. That's
Natasha Madison: but I love it.
Laura Yamin: That's
Natasha Madison: I love that part of it. I love, I have so many good memories of the growing up with my cousins, and then I want my kids. But it's very, it's [00:20:00] a very d different generation now. Like the kids are very different. Like I was just happy, but don't forget, back then we didn't have social media to keep up with each other.
Right. So I didn't have if I saw my cousins after a month, it was like I saw my cousins after a month.
Laura Yamin: Mm-hmm.
Natasha Madison: There was no texting in between, there was no like posting
Laura Yamin: phone,
Natasha Madison: on.
Laura Yamin: We have
Natasha Madison: Right. Right.
Laura Yamin: or especially if you have your own landline to talk to your friends. Like talking not, we use the
We
Natasha Madison: yeah,
Laura Yamin: not sending voice notes and stuff like that. Like we, we are just, and we're also not expected to be at home all the time.
Sitting in
We're just like,
Natasha Madison: yeah.
Laura Yamin: had commercials. I said, do you know where your kids are at
Natasha Madison: Oh my God.
Laura Yamin: at night?
Natasha Madison: Till a couple months ago, we still had a landline. I. My kids were like, mom, what is that ringing? And I'm like, it's the phone.
Laura Yamin: Oh
Natasha Madison: It's the phone. We still have cable. My kids have, they don't really watch ca it's all subscription based. Right. So it's all and like nothing has. [00:21:00] Commercials anymore. So like we're sitting down and we're watching the hockey game yesterday and I'm like, cutting to commercial and the kids are like, oh my God, another commercial.
And I'm like, God, you guys would've died in my time. Died in my time.
Laura Yamin: before
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: TV guide or you, before they even had the, showing what the shows were, you didn't know where it was playing, you just scroll the channel like, oh.
Natasha Madison: I remember like it was in the newspaper at one point, like what was playing that night. And then you had, if you had the TV guide, you were like middle class.
You were like, if you had the TV guide, you were it on the block.
Laura Yamin: yes. Well, I grew up in Puerto Rico, so we were, we had different channels. We had American tv 'cause American TV gets important, but we didn't have, T TV guide didn't work because we have different channels and different things, and so. So it was just like weird thing. It's toggling and trying to figure out like what channel, what's playing, what's going.
You have to
Natasha Madison: I'm telling you, when you got that TV [00:22:00] guide, you were like, who's on the cover? What movies are, and then you would be like, oh my God, it's playing the My favorite movie at 2:00 AM. And then you kind, you, back then you couldn't, you didn't have a DVR you, a PVR, whatever, so you had to literally set an alarm, wake up to watch your favorite movie.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: The times have changed.
Laura Yamin: time has changed. All right. We gotta talk about some book recommendations.
Natasha Madison: Yes
Laura Yamin: top recommendation is Golden Trail by Kristen Ashley. You have reread it. You just recently
Natasha Madison: will.
Laura Yamin: You just
Natasha Madison: I
Laura Yamin: recommended
Natasha Madison: only reread it, I reread it. I have it on audio. It's like my go-to comfort read.
Laura Yamin: So talk to us, what is it all about and why
Natasha Madison: Oh my. I don't like, and it's so funny because reading it one, it's funny because I didn't realize until recently that it's only in his [00:23:00] POB.
Laura Yamin: really.
Natasha Madison: Yes,
Laura Yamin: oh my God. Now I need to
Natasha Madison: I know. It's a second chance. He's not nice to her at all.
Laura Yamin: yeah.
Natasha Madison: It's only in his POB, which is shocking. Shocking.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: I don't know. There's just something about it.
Something about I don't know what it, I don't know what it is. I don't know if back then it was my favorite and it's still my favorite. Ah. But I think it's my favorite because it was my favorite back then, and I'm not sure that if I read it today, like in today's, if I hadn't have read it when it came out
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: just read it today, I don't know if it'll be my favorite, so yeah.
Oh.
Laura Yamin: for readers, talk to us about Chris and Ashley. 'cause she has, I was telling you, I was like, I wish she had the resurgence of the 2020 when they were like, looking back at these old. Titles and they were like, she didn't get that treatment
Natasha Madison: [00:24:00] Okay.
Laura Yamin: the viral treatment. But she was big into 2010s.
Natasha Madison: She was
Laura Yamin: common that you have read a couple, Kristen, Ashley, lady
Natasha Madison: oh hundred percent.
Laura Yamin: like a bunch of them, like these were like staple
Natasha Madison: would. She is like one of the first OGs that came out with Alpha Men.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: And now you can't say they're alpha men because
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: it's the different mindset, like you say.
Laura Yamin: It's, I just in the eighties and nineties there was a lot of non-consent and it was just pretty normal.
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: like people are writing like, oh my God. And I'm like,
Natasha Madison: Yeah. They're like, oh my God. Like my first book, he's really alpha.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: Cooper Stone is really the alpha male. Like he doesn't take he's we're going out tonight. He's not asking. He's telling you We're going out tonight now. You love him because you know he's genuine and, but would it, like people are really, like in today's market, [00:25:00] would they be like, wait, no, not going out with you because you said let's go out.
So I think everything changes. Everything changes and Yeah. Alpha Men back then and Alpha Men back now it's totally like it did. It'd be red flags.
Laura Yamin: Yeah,
Natasha Madison: Like red flags
Laura Yamin: I think it's it's such an interesting dynamic because I, I remember 2016 reading all the Alphas and 'cause I was just consuming that
Natasha Madison: and the Alphas were like the best sellers. Like
Laura Yamin: the
Natasha Madison: You wanted the Alpha man. You wanted the alpha man who was gonna be like, I'm gonna take care of you, and we're going out tonight.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: it's no.
Laura Yamin: now we get the cinnamon roll hero, the one who's in touch with the emotions the female fantasy, because they're like, it really
Natasha Madison: Retrievers, the golden retrievers.
Laura Yamin: Yeah, the golden retrievers, the one who can get a piece, a black cat of women and all these different things. And it feels like we are going through [00:26:00] extremes and I'm like, I can see the alpha going back 'cause we're starting to see some of them in the romantic sea, in the paranormal space.
Natasha Madison: Okay.
Laura Yamin: now we're still getting some of those like very like
Natasha Madison: Cinnamon. Yeah,
Laura Yamin: It's
Natasha Madison: like the This Man series.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: Do you remember that series?
Laura Yamin: Yes, I do.
Natasha Madison: To this day, I think that's one of my favorite series. However,
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: haven't read it since it came out.
Laura Yamin: Okay.
Natasha Madison: So I read book 1, 2, 3 because, and like Jesse Ward.
Laura Yamin: there were the thing, there were, you were reading like we, this is what we were reading.
Natasha Madison: Jesse Ward was the it thing.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: Would Jesse Ward be the IT thing today?
Laura Yamin: No they're not. But you know what? We kind of have to go back to a little bit. I think we need to go back to a halfway point. It doesn't have to be so extreme one way, or it doesn't have to be extreme the
Natasha Madison: But like I find that it, like the dark romance, that's where the alphas are at.
Laura Yamin: [00:27:00] Yes. I love it. In mafia, I love, I
Natasha Madison: Like
Laura Yamin: view
Natasha Madison: the H haunting, was it haunting Adeline where like he had sex with a gun
Laura Yamin: I think so. Yeah.
Natasha Madison: or there was one where he like
Cut her face or made her face bleed and then dunked her head inside of shark infested waters like.
Red flag.
Laura Yamin: yes.
Natasha Madison: Red flag, like that is a red flag. Forget the alpha male. That's like red
Laura Yamin: you? I dunno. The kidnapping one I and I have a popular episode about, I don't know if I do have a captive captor, but if not, I'll be posting it at captive captor because kidnapping is holy shit, it's a freaking red flag.
Natasha Madison: And they're all like, oh, we're gonna kidnap you. Take me. I'm like, what?
Laura Yamin: yes.
Natasha Madison: But yet you're talking like that you wanna cancel the guy who's we're going out tonight.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: So, yeah, I think it's [00:28:00] been, I mean, if you've been around as long enough
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: see that the way that it's changed, you're wondering what is next?
Laura Yamin: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I hope that we get to a happy medium or some sort and.
Natasha Madison: I will say. I hate the tropes that like the, like people are like, oh my God, what are the tropes? What does it matter?
Laura Yamin: It doesn't really matter. It's a story. It's about
Natasha Madison: Like I, and like now everything is a trope, like a cada, a goat person, farm girl, like everything is a trope.
Laura Yamin: Yeah, it really is. And I know this is worth selling for this idea, but like a lot of times you just have to look at, look beyond of like the formula. Oh, this is a formula. This is what I like, this is what I'm gonna do. I, I don't know. Not every troope is gonna work. Not every troope, the way it's your favorite TRO may not work for that kind of particular story.
It's about the characters. It's about what is actually happening to the [00:29:00] story. Because it's not just internal conflict. You also have external conflicts. There's more to the story that you're working with., I think we moved to this idea. I know they complain about. Thinking books are fast fashion, but it's how we're marketing the books are just getting to the point where you're not really sitting down and enjoying the freaking story. Like 0.1.
Natasha Madison: I will say the hockey series that I just finished writing, the only fourth. Tonight only for love, only for him, only for her. I wrote the second book and I wrote the book the way I wanted to write the book. And it's and then I finished it and I said, Shauna, I don't even know if this book has tropes.
I don't know what the tropes are. I don't I wrote the books the way that I wanted to write the books back and I, maybe it's gonna be shoot me in the ass because there are no I don't know the trope. So we like came up with tropes, but it's like what trope is gonna get the people like, and then [00:30:00] are they turned off because of the troope?
Like somebody's, they're like, we don't like surprise pregnancies. But we like them to be pregnant. And I was like,
Laura Yamin: Get pregnant.
Natasha Madison: Yeah, I don't like that trope, so I don't wanna, and I'm like, but you like love stories and it's a love story.
Laura Yamin: Yes. I think it's, I think it's a conversation that it's an ongoing conversation about how we market our books
Natasha Madison: And.
Laura Yamin: is it a detriment to mark them tro ification that it has all these tropes and you have to do all these search engine and it has to be found this way. Or are we able to see literature for the sake of literature or like a book for the sake of a book and enjoy the story for the sake of the story.
Natasha Madison: Yeah. And then are you gonna take a chance on the book because. Say it's not the tropes that you like. You hate the tropes, but you like the blurb.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: Will you take a [00:31:00] chance on that book and be like, oh, but no, I don't like black cats, or I don't like whatever it is, like
Laura Yamin: think it's some ways, , it's even like how I consider marketing. Books like,
Natasha Madison: mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Laura Yamin: content creator. I, my job is to sell the book to other people and to be like, okay, find the right book for you. And I think in some ways it's like looking less about maybe the trope is a Jordan horse and then just basically telling you like, Hey, this is a story.
I know you don't like it,
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: is why you actually should read this book.
Natasha Madison: Yeah.
Laura Yamin: if you don't like ho, if you don't like Christmas on holiday, unscripted might be the book
Natasha Madison: He, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Laura Yamin: it. It gives you a place to, one, understand that you're not the only one. It makes you feel alive in a place where everything's hallmark, everything's Christmas,
Natasha Madison: That's it.
Laura Yamin: is a book for you.
And that's where it's like looking from that perspective, like how we sell the book to a place, to the reader that needs to read the book.
Natasha Madison: Yeah. No it's always interesting. Every, like I've been around, I think for 10 [00:32:00] years now, and it's like. The adaptation of change. And like I, I write my book so far ahead
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: that it's is this trope even gonna be good when this book releases? And I was like, I have to stop looking at tropes that are now and just write the story that I wanna write.
And that's the story that.
Laura Yamin: I think in some ways that's, it makes you a leader in that space as opposed to a trend chaser. Like it makes you, like you're setting the trend, you're setting the space as
Natasha Madison: Yeah,
Laura Yamin: someone who's falling whatever, is chasing the trend.
Natasha Madison: It's, and it's hard. It's hard because the trench age is like
Laura Yamin: so
Natasha Madison: a blink of an eye.
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: Like hockey's the big thing now.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: In blink of an eye, football's coming back and the football's gonna be the top of the leap. Or like cowboys are in now, but hockey players aren't in. And I think some people are like, well, let's do a cowboy who plays hockey.
And I'm like, no.[00:33:00]
Laura Yamin: Oh, I read those. Yes. Those are, I sometimes I call them the everything in the kitchen sink ification, where it's like those cookies and you do everything in the kitchen. Sink cookies, those, they're book form and they're
Natasha Madison: But I think, and I think it comes back to they're like, oh, they're chasing what's in the market now instead of just writing the book that you think you should write and what the characters are gonna do.
Laura Yamin: So, but you know, we've been in there for more than a decade. We are gonna see
Natasha Madison: A decade. Crazy.
Laura Yamin: and everything. And so, our job is to keep spearheading to other areas and other things that may not know that they might like,
Natasha Madison: yeah,
Laura Yamin: it a try. And you
Natasha Madison: Like I said, like like a lot of people.
Laura Yamin: alpha males.
And now I'm like, Hey, there's a whole aspect of a
Natasha Madison: There's
Laura Yamin: full
Natasha Madison: a whole aspect of the alpha males and and I remember, so I remember once I did an ad and it's like the alpha of all [00:34:00] alphas, and somebody bought the book and emailed me and said, when does he turn into a wolf? And I said, what is he talking about? And they're like, well, when does he turn?
And I'm like, dude, I think you're reading the wrong book.
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: And because I had tag lined it, the alpha of All Alphas, he literally they were like, when is he turning? And I'm like, turning to what?
Laura Yamin: Yeah.
Natasha Madison: So you also have to watch out what you say.
Laura Yamin: yes. All right, Natasha, we've talked long enough and I wanna keep you, li longer. So tell us where you can find your line.
Natasha Madison: I am everywhere, online, anywhere that you wanna find me, you can find me. I'm on Instagram, I'm on TikTok. I'm on Facebook, I'm on, is Facebook even a thing now? I don't know. Nobody's on Facebook anymore. I love Facebook. I, but I'm an OG Facebook girl. I'm not on Snapchat.
Laura Yamin: That's okay. I'm not either, so
Natasha Madison: Is that [00:35:00] even a thing anymore?
Laura Yamin: think it's a thing for the younger generation. I don't know. I didn't understand. I didn't get it. I'm an elder millennial. I'm midlife now, so
Natasha Madison: Same.
Laura Yamin: don't,
Natasha Madison: I think that's the only
Laura Yamin: yeah. We've
Natasha Madison: Only thing I never,
Laura Yamin: years. Like I was reminded that I've been on Facebook for 21 years.
Natasha Madison: yeah,
Laura Yamin: it's a long
Natasha Madison: it's a long time. I was, I think I had a Twitter account, but now it's not Twitter. I'm definitely not on threads
Laura Yamin: Oh, that's okay. That's okay. You are not
Natasha Madison: because that apparently is
Laura Yamin: missing out.
Natasha Madison: That's like
Laura Yamin: happens.
Natasha Madison: you go to die, like where your soul goes to die.
Laura Yamin: yes. I you just don't need to be there. I can tell you, as someone who in the silo looking at, I'm like, oh, you don't need to be there.
Natasha Madison: Yeah, no, I had to create an account because they said if you didn't create account, then somebody could take your account,
Laura Yamin: Yes.
Natasha Madison: you can't delete the account or else it's gonna delete your Instagram.
Laura Yamin: Yeah just
Inactive.
Natasha Madison: my
Laura Yamin: Come
Natasha Madison: in the cloud. It's [00:36:00] in the cloud.
Laura Yamin: It's in Nicole. You just saved us, so no one, so no hacker can come and act like Natasha Madison, but it is. Okay.
Natasha Madison: Go for it. If you're gonna do it, go for it. I'd aim higher, but if you wanna do it,
Laura Yamin: Awesome. Well, Natasha, this was a pleasure talking to
Natasha Madison: thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.
Laura Yamin: Awesome. Thank you so much.
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