Today we're saying

goodbye gas, but we're also

saying hello to Ben and

Marcella from goodbye gas.

How are you guys?

Thanks for joining us.

Good.

Thank you.

Yeah, great to be on the

other side of the speakers.

I'm super excited.

, I actually realLy

struggle with this topic

because it actually just

doesn't make any sense

to run gas in a house.

Let's just remove

environment for a second.

Like in the whole

global warming thing,

like just cost wise.

You will save yourself a

ton of money by getting

an all electric home.

Is that true or false?

Absolutely true.

Yeah.

So, you guys are in the

space already, but yeah,

we know that, the gas

appliances currently

are super inefficient.

When we're talking about,

hot water and cooking

and heating and cooling

and things like that

compared to the electric.

The new electric versions.

putting the

environment aside.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's super inefficient.

So there was a study done

by Renew in twenty eight,

twenty fourteen, sorry.

And they talked about

the numbers about

getting off gas then.

this is new

information as well.

But back 10 year period,

you're going to save

yourself about 10, 000.

Prices of gas and that

were a lot cheaper,

and electricity was

a lot cheaper back

then, so it's only

going to be bigger now.

Yeah, again, I think,

with the prices that the

way that they're going.

Yeah, I think on average,

I think much like an

average home is about.

3 to 4, 000 a year saving

when, when looking at

heating, cooling hot

water and, and cooking.

So how's that saving

Is it by removing

the gas metering?

Is it like efficiencies

in the appliances, like

the cost of energy and

all that kind of stuff?

I

I think the two biggest

things are heating and

cooling and hot water.

Getting those two

things off gas will

save you a whole bunch

of operational costs.

Just because heating

and cooling, air, water,

whatever it is, is so

efficient with heat pumps.

Those costs obviously vary

depending on how often

you use your heating and

cooling and how often

you shower, etc, etc.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's kind

of how it's quantified.

And then, I suppose

the last thing with the

cooktop, if you take

your cooktop off gas,

you're going to be saving

yourself service fee

you're saving yourself at

least 400 a year there.

And then it's estimated

that over the next,

you know, as time goes

on and prices of gas

increases, it's something

like 8 percent per

year, the prices of gas

are going to increase.

So I suppose that.

The report that Renew

did in 2014, prices of

gas would already have

increased and your savings

per year would probably

almost be double that now.

So around 1500 to 2000

per year, if you get

everything off gas,

including a cooktop.

So yeah it's a

worthwhile investment.

Yep.

places that you look

in a house to remove

gas essentially.

It's your heating and

cooling, it's your hot

water and your cooking,

that's correct?, the

hot water is a really,

really easy one because

at the end of the day, no

one gives a fuck where the

hot water is coming from.

As long as you jump

in the shower, you

got hot water, yeah?

Like no one's turning

on the hot tap, running

outside and being

like, did that come

from gas or electric?

Like whatever's cheaper.

really makes no sense

that you need gas

for that appliance.

All right.

I want to start with

cooking though because

There's this misconception,

I feel, that you, when

you have a gas appliance,

you can see the flame.

So it's a lot of, oh, you

can take control, which

is definitely not correct.

Do you have any more

information on that?

you're exactly right, it's

because you're interacting

with that appliance.

On a daily basis, probably,

you know, some people

two or three times a day.

So, yeah, it is,

hard , to quantify that.

I think a lot of the older,

if you've been cooking with

gas your whole life, you

know, over 40 you know, it

is a hard change to make

but yeah, induction is

super It's super efficient.

And like, yes, you can

see the flame on gas, but

I guess once you're used

to the, how to cook on

induction, like, you know,

it's so precise, like

you can temper chocolate

on an induction cooktop.

Super easy.

I've seen it.

And so, yeah, I guess once

you learn how to use it,

then it's far superior.

And it's just

easy to clean.

At the end of the day,

and safety for kids

and stuff like that.

And let's just not

overlook the fact that

you're not burning

methane within the house.

yeah, exactly.

And then look, a lot

of them got a lot of

safety features as well.

Like, it'll turn

off automatically if

it, you know, if you

get a spill on it.

so the safety

features far superior.

I was just at our family

beach house up in New South

Wales last week and there's

a gas cooktop there.

And I know in the morning

when I put my little,

I've got a little top.

Oven top coffee machine

that I've put on, um, my

induction cooktop here.

It takes about three or

four minutes to cook.

Now, I know this is

totally anecdotal, right?

But my experience

with cooking that same

size coffee on gas was

probably double the time.

maybe that was probably

a little bit embellished

because I'm so, anxious

about having my coffee

first thing in the

morning, but it was

noticeably different.

So I think a lot of

people think in their

mind that cooking with

gas is quicker and more

efficient, but I guess in

the experience that I've

got with cooking with gas,

that's not the case at all.

And cleaning.

Fuck me.

I hate cleaning.

Pulling the elements

off and then having

to wipe around it

and stuff like that.

I know at mine at

home, I'm just like

wiping straight off.

Bang.

It's done.

Yeah.

like electric cooktops

have been around for

a long time as well.

And I think a

lot of people.

Compare electric

cooktops to the gas

cooktops when, you know,

I guess the induction

is the new technology.

And that's what uses

magnetism to essentially

transfer heat.

So, yeah, I think people

are getting stuck, you

know, looking at that.

The electric

versions as well.

Yeah, absolutely right from

a cleaning perspective.

I'm obsessed with it.

I Love giving

cleaning the gas cooktop.

Yeah.

was a hell on earth.

This is the best.

I love it.

And then also it

kind of becomes an

extension of your bench.

So all of a sudden

you've got all this

extra space that you

didn't have previously.

spatially efficient too.

And I'm the same as

you with my coffee.

I'm like, this needs to

be done three minutes ago.

But It's actually so true.

I have the same little

stove top thing, but it

takes half the time to

heat up in the morning.

So it saves us time.

And then like cooking,

boiling water, doing

that sort of stuff.

So like cooking up

a pasta is so quick.

But then like Ben was

saying, it's just getting

used to the new technology,

but we're faced with new

technology every day.

Like there's a new

iPhone every two seconds.

So I feel like it's

pretty easy to adapt to

once you understand it.

And there's so much

information on the

internet, and also, lots

of appliance stores offer,

services where you can go

and do a trial and test

it out, and they teach you

Demonstrations.

Yeah.

question about the health

of gas appliances and

thinking about cooktops.

Do you guys have any

information about,

when you're lighting

up a gas appliance

and when it's burning?

Like, is that an

efficient, uh, unit?

Like, is there any health

ramifications that we're

exposed to when we're

actually cooking with gas?

yeah, well, there's a

lot of wasted energy

when when you do, ah,

burning a flame, right?

Like it's half of it

is going to the pot and

half of it's going, you

know, out the sides.

And yeah, you obviously,

it just seems funny

now looking back going,

How is this normal?

Are you literally burning

a gas flame right in

front of your face?

we'll look at it

the same way as we

do smoking, right?

Like, we ban that and

we kind of know the

health effects of that.

And I think gas is no,

no different to that.

So that they're quicker.

People realize the better,

Alright, I want to, I

want to hit something

here where we're on gas

cooktops because I think

it's really important.

I'm going to throw a

huge curveball at you.

So, there are some

people out there that

will say with, with

having an induction

cooktops that there's

a magnet and there's

EMFs with that cooktop.

Electromagnetic fields.

Do you have any evidence to

suggest that is a problem

with people and there could

be health implications

of using an induction

got no hard evidence.

I mean, yes, everything

electric does have

an EMF on it, right?

The actual

strength of that.

I'm no expert on what

that's going to do, but you

know, we live in a world of

technology where, there's

Wi Fi beaming around our

houses and, we're holding

phones to our ears and

all that kind of stuff.

So, don't know, I'm not an

expert in that, but yeah,

I don't think it could

be any worse than that.

So I'm actually going

to give you the answer.

So it's a bit of

a loaded question.

So, the reason why, because

there is, there is a lot

of information out there

that create confusion

around these things.

So there is no evidence so

far from a peer reviewed

journal article or any

scientific evidence

suggests that an electric,

like a cooktop will have

any harmful effects.

And there's a number

of them and these are

peer reviewed journals.

They aren't white

papers or they're not.

Funded by someone else,

like they're specifically

looking at this problem.

In some one study that

had the measured EMF

emissions from various

induction cooktops were

found below international

guidelines, pretty much

closer to, actually

less than a hairdryer.

So,

What I wanted to get out

of that there was just

explain to people that

there's always going

to be someone's going

to spill something else

about it to try to shut

you away from going to

induction cooktop or

create some misinformation

or Confusion.

Yes, EMFs are a real thing.

They do exist.

I'm not denying that.

There is still some

EMF around there, but

to date, there's no

evidence to suggest from

a scientific point of view

that this is the case.

Some people might disagree,

but if you can prove

me wrong from something

that's peer reviewed,

love to hear about it.

love it.

Love it.

Hey, can I ask you a

question about heat pumps?

Sure.

they How does a

heat pump work?

it draws in air.

So it brings in air

and what it does is

it finds the heat

molecules in that hair.

So, air of all temperatures

has heat molecules in.

So even if it's zero

degrees, there's still

heat molecules in there.

So what it does is that

it sucks all that air in

captures all those heat

molecules and it transfers

it to heating output.

So, similar to the

exact same way that

a split system.

Air conditioner or heater

that we've had, for years

and years and years.

Same technology

except it, you know,

it doesn't obviously

heat the air, it'll

heat it'll heat water.

So, whether that's an

inbuilt tank with the

heat pump on the top or

whether it's a separate

unit split system heat

pump, yeah same technology.

, are you using CO2

heat pumps or are you

just using sort of a

standard heat pump?

generally two types here.

So there's the split

system and the all in

one and the CO2 versions.

The split systems.

And yeah, we do

a lot of those.

They're the top

of the range.

Can you sort of explain

the difference between a

standard heat pump and a

CO2 heat pump if possible?

Yeah.

So basically, we've got

a heat pump and a tank of

water and then you have

to kind of the energy

that it gets from drawing

the air from the heat

molecules that has to send

that to the tank it does

that, in an all in one

by a refrigerant line.

So it's just, you know,

obviously down from the

top to the bottom during,

in a refrigerant line.

Currently that's called

an, it's an R290 is

the new refrigerants

for most heat pumps.

And then he uses that

refrigerant, which

is, it's a really

efficient refrigerant.

And then, uh, the CO2

version, yeah, it does

the same thing, but

essentially uses CO2.

So there's no

refrigerant in there.

And, and that's a more

environmentally thing

because of the H,

the HCFs essentially

creating potential issues

with global warming?

Yeah that's exactly right.

So yeah, the CO2s

are far superior.

They do that far

more efficiently.

It comes down to cost

though, too, as well.

CO2 is a little bit more

expensive, aren't they?

Yeah, significantly

more expensive.

But also the propane to

the other refrigerant

that Ben was talking

about that's in, it's

actually pretty much that.

Yeah, it's the only

heat pump that's now

eligible for rebates

because of that criteria

is a propane heat pump.

So, it uses propane as

a refrigerant, which is.

Ridiculously more

sustainable than the other

refrigerants that have

been used in the past.

And so the propane's

not used in a CO2 heat

pump, is that right?

That's right?

Yep.

wouldn't it make more sense

then to use the CO2 that's

already outside in the

air to create the energy?

wouldn't that then

be better for the

environment when we're

not pumping refrigerants?

Because some does get lost

when you, pump it in and

when it, and people don't

decommission them properly.

Essentially,

that's the danger.

but it's highly unlikely

that they're going to leak

heat pumps are going to

leak refrigerant like they

can't or else the heat pump

wouldn't work properly.

So they're sealed

real tight in there.

But, yeah, it's a good

point when decommissioning

just to make sure

that they're being

disposed of responsibly.

But yes, CO2 is ideal.

I'm not sure if you

need additional CO2 in.

A heat pump to make

it work properly.

That's a great question.

They may or may not be

enough in the air to have

them work efficiently.

So I'm actually

not sure, you

actually don't know

the answer to that one

either.

So as I actually, it's

like, oh, that's a

very good question.

good thing about heat pumps

is you can program them

to work with the solar

and the time as well.

So they can heat up

at certain times at

work with the solar.

So you can use the energy

that you're already

creating through the solar

panels to then essentially

create free hot water or

heat through the house.

And they're pretty much,

the opposite of a fridge.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Your fridge is a heat

pump as well, right?

In reverse.

That's correct.

So, know, washing

machines and dryers,

they're all moving to

heat pumps as well.

it is the most efficient

way to heat or cool air or

water or whatever you're

trying to heat or cool.

So, let's now talk about

heating and cooling.

multiple forms of heating

and cooling of a house.

And I think where we need

to think about at the

moment is there's two sort

of ways you look at it.

If there's building new

and we're seeing the

Victorian government has

said pretty much no gas

on buildings, anything

new, which is great.

Not only more

environmentally friendly,

but also reduces the

cost for people to run.

Also developers

don't have to run

these huge gas pipes.

Also, in the future,

hydrogen was talked

about running

through these pipes.

Not sure that that

was a good idea.

The right idea for hydrogen

in that sense, , hydrogen

can also get banged.

But also it does leak

to the pipes from

my understanding.

I think hydrogen does

play a part in the future,

where I'm not sure.

But, with retrofits and

old houses, I want to

talk about the heating

and cooling elements and

What are we utilizing?

Because so many houses have

gas appliances currently.

Or they're using

evaporative cooling

or split systems.

I just want to know

what happens when we

want to go all electric

on an old house.

Yeah, so the, types

that we're seeing uh,

at the moment, yeah.

Is, I guess the most

common ones are gonna

be ab ducted gas under

floor system, or a gas

ducted in ceiling system.

Usually they couple

that with an evaporative

cooler again, which is

not an air conditioner.

Um, it's a cooler.

and then the other one

is You know, like an

old gas wall heater.

There are those gas

fireplaces, which yeah,

there's no real electric

alternative for that.

That's going to pump out

the same amount of heat.

So we kind of steer

clear of those ones.

We can disconnect it.

But there's no

real offering for

that at the moment.

So what we're doing in all

those scenarios is kind

of, you know, assessing

at the house or assessing

the house, looking at

kind of the setup and

then yeah, using a heat

pump or a reverse cycle

heating and cooling system.

Either a standalone

split system is pretty

common if you want to

do kind of one area.

You know, a lot of

people just want to heat

their main living room.

So we would look at

it, maybe a standalone

split system there.

or if you've got gas

ducted you know, the

replacement for reverse

cycle ducted system is,

is generally a good option

because they're used to

that whole home heating.

So we would put a zone

system in most of the time.

In ceiling because there's

not generally enough

room under houses These

days to put to put a new

ducted system underneath.

So we, yeah we generally

put them in the ceiling.

you can't use the old

ductwork that's there

for the old gas system.

Can you?

No.

Okay.

No,

No, that's right.

So that generally

comes out.

It's usually old anyway.

Right.

So it's usually 150

mil it's insulations

broken down.

It's been eaten by rats

or, it's squashed or,

That's generally quite old.

So yeah we put a whole new

one in, um, the new ones

are about 250 to 300 mil

So yeah, that's why we put

them in the ceiling, all

new ductwork, connect it

up, and then it's a whole

new, whole new system.

So then when we talk about

heating and cooling, the

coefficient of performance,

I know our good friend

Cam Munro, who jumps

on this podcast a bit

and helps us out, it's

essentially talking about

you put in one engine, you

might get three bits of

energy out sort of thing.

it reduced costs.

You just want to maybe

explain a little bit

further when we talk

about heating and cooling.

Yeah.

So essentially you know,

a lot of the heating

systems that we see, like

the plug in systems, like

the bar, kind of the bar

heaters, the oil heaters.

So yeah, they're generally

100% Efficient which

essentially means but

one kilowatt of energy

and you get one kilowatt

of heating output so

that's 100 efficient.

So it sounds sounds awesome

but when you compare it

to a split system, or a

heat pump, uh, you put

one kilowatt of energy

in Then you generally

get four kilowatts out.

So they're 400 efficient

or four times as efficient

so that's the one you

want to be installing

and using the most

And to all split systems,

are they slightly

different each brand or

they're all pretty much

on par with each other?

Yeah.

from a performance

side of things.

pretty similar I guess

it just comes down

to the functionality.

So, you know, you

might have, additional

filters in there or

Wi Fi control or, app

control things like that.

But generally, yeah, a lot

of them, very similar.

Now, I've got your new

beautiful website opened

up just on my other

screen here and for

those wanting to check

it out, it is goodbyegas.

com.

au.

I'd love to know if I

have a whole bunch of gas

appliances in my home and

I want to electrify my

building, how do I go?

What's the process?

good question.

There are a couple of

things that you can do.

if you've done a bit

of research, you're

feeling confident, you're

ready to have someone

to come out and have

a look at everything.

You can jump on our

website and you can

book one of two things.

You can book a virtual

visit or you can book

an in home visit.

They both effectively

provide the same thing.

Basically we just come down

and we try and understand

your home, talk you

through The process also

talk through all your gas

appliances, understand

spatial constraints

and just gather all the

information we need to put

together an electrification

plan for you.

If you're not quite ready

for that, I just want

to have a quick chat.

You can also book a

10 minute phone call.

Those are fully free.

We can just talk through

your appliances, talk

through any of your

concerns or questions.

And we're always happy to

talk about electrification.

So, definitely book a phone

call if you just want to

have a chat about it first.

What are the barriers

you're finding that people

don't want to remove

gas, or they call you,

so they're obviously

interested in it, but

then they say, hey, no,

this is too hard, or

what's, what are the

biggest barriers we face?

cost generally.

And where's the cost?

I mean, is it changing

the appliances or Is it

the cost in the labor

or is it the cost in say

upgrading your switchboard?

Like where does cost go

in this sort of thing?

Because I don't think

think it's that expensive.

I suppose affordability

is definitely a

personal situation

It would be the cost

of this appliance to

all of each appliance.

I think there are people

who have potentially

no idea how much it

might cost to do it.

So they don't have a

figure in their head.

So when they see the

first number, they're

like, oh, that was heaps

more than I expected.

I

think that's okay though

because the thing, the hard

thing is about it, and I

had this chat with my wife

about this all the time,

and I might get frustrated

when someone's like, why

is that so expensive?

And I'm like, well

that's normal.

But the thing is, they

just don't know what they

don't know and that's fine.

And it's taken me a long

time to understand that.

And everyone just has this

idea that everything's

still cheap, and

unfortunately it's not.

So, are you having people

come to you and say, Hey,

we just want, we want to

get rid of our heating,

cooling, our hot water and

cooking, but we only do one

at a time and it's a solar

process, so it might be

not a subscription model.

But it's like, hey,

we do one every year

or something like

Yeah, that's

absolutely fine.

We can fully

appreciate that.

It might need to be a step

by step process and we

accommodate that for sure.

what's the first

one you'd go to?

Like, if you, if I'm going

to come to like, hey,

I want to get off gas,

which one do I start with?

I would start

with hot order.

Absolutely.

Yeah, Um, and it's

a relatively quick

and Painless job.

There's not much intrusion.

You know, it sits outside

most of the time and

it's a straight swap.

So, generally done in, four

hours and heaps of rebates.

So you can probably, you

know, it's up to 2100.

I think

probably, they'll

probably start to be

reduced as well as more

people having as well.

I think everyone should

probably realize.

So the quicker you get

on this as well, the more

you're going to get back

from the government and

because they are going to

tighten up on spending,

the more they can remove

things that's in

their interest.

So I think that's something

that's really smart that

you're going to do it.

Hurry up.

Cause I think

it's every year

Do you have any, data

around how long it

would take to pay

that back investment?

Or is that generally

not something that

you guys are kind of

selling from getting

someone across the line?

It's a good question.

We don't at the moment.

It's definitely something

we've been considering,

but there are also lots

of great resources out

there that have already

done the research and done

the calculations make the

switch is one of them.

So yeah, just like

potentially when people

are doing their research

is to have a look at

those websites and plug

in your information and

they spit out numbers

that are pretty accurate.

Is this something that's

probably going to be forced

upon us at some point?

Like, I know Canberra

is, pretty progressive

in this space.

Do you see other,

areas following suit

to basically ban

Probably more

indirectly, won't it?

you're not forced to,

but you'll have to.

Yeah, well, they do.

They talk about the

death spiral, right?

So, you the gas network

is held up currently by

everyone who's connected

to the gas network paying

for infrastructure charges

and things like that.

Right.

So, as more people

disconnect from

that network.

You know, the costs are

going to be higher and

higher and the people

who are responsible

for that are going to

be lower and lower.

So that's called

the death spiral.

And yeah, I guess

essentially it'll become

too expensive for people

to disconnect the gas

line from their homes

because it would be

too expensive to do it.

so if I'm coming to you as

well on like appliances,

because I know some people

like that, that they might

be tied to, I know that

the Miele or the Bosch

cooktop, are you very

open to whatever appliance

you want, or are you very

just stuck to know you

have to use this brand?

It's dependent on

a couple of things.

If people are really

specific about something

that they want, we're more

than happy to install it.

in the end it just comes

down to cost for that,

The other thing we look

out for though is cooktop

cutout dimensions.

They're not the same

across the board.

Like,

Even the same brand year on

year changes by like five

mil or five It's really,

it's so annoying.

And then, like, lots

of homes have composite

stone benches as well,

which we all know

are not safe to cut.

so we try to avoid it

Yeah,

much as possible.

you can still

cut legacy stone.

So if it's installed

already, then

you can cut it.

You just can't cut.

new stone or

supply new stone.

So, we've got a licensed

contractor who comes in

and he tapes it all up,

makes a little cocoon gets

his wet cutter, wet, wet

saw out with the vacuum.

And yeah, it's a whole

thing, but yeah, it's

a process, but we're,

we are still allowed to

do it for legacy stone,

which was, which is good.

Yeah, I think that's,

I think that's probably

really, that's actually

a really good point

that you brought up.

I think it's because

that sometimes might

be a deterrent for

people that, oh I can't

touch it, Caesarstone's

banned, I don't want to

have to rip my top out.

But there are, there are

ways for you to do things.

So, I also want to

know about you two.

Because at the end of

the day, like, we've

spoken about why you

need to get off gas and

be electric, but like,

why are you here now?

How did you get

to this point?

Like, why are you now in a

company called Goodbye Gas?

Yeah, great question.

I'm an electrician, so

I've had a, my electrical

business break for,

you know, 12 or so

years now, I think.

Which makes me feel very

old, but yeah, so we

do a lot of new homes a

lot of automation, you

know, that kind of stuff.

And I've got two

guys to kind of run

that for me now.

Shout out to.

who kind of run most of

that for me the moment

and then about three or

two years ago now in 2022,

kind of had this idea you

know, that would be good

to have a service to kind

of demystify it, or, you

know, make it super simple

for, homeowners to do it.

You know, when

you're looking at.

what rebates are available?

What trades are good?

Finding good trades, you

know, actually getting

them to show up on time.

Are they going to

walk muddy boots

through my house?

we would kind of coordinate

this whole service.

So the idea generally

was to make it as easy as

possible for the customer

to get off completely

remove all that gas

appliances to electric

as easy as possible.

I've had the privilege

of witnessing.

Uh, electrification

day at a good friend

of mine's house.

In fact, it was on one

of my past past projects

and, I guess just by

coincidence, Tom had to

go off site for the day.

So he asked group chat

if anyone would be happy

to just sort of sit

in and work from home.

And I put my hand

up because I was

really curious about,

you know, what that

looked like from the

consumer's point of view.

And, from all reports,

it was super easy.

I think the, the

hottie was done within

two or three hours.

The guys are super

respectful, taking their

shoes off, cleaning

up after themselves.

I think there was a little

bit of an issue trying to

get a cable through, but

you know, other than that.

Like it was a really easy

and seamless process.

So correct me if I'm

wrong, but that, what a

white glove service is a

really big part of what

you're trying to achieve.

Is that right?

yeah, absolutely.

So, when I first started

I guess the idea, getting

together the idea and how

it's going to work pretty

quickly we, well, I was

introduced to Margie and

me and her basically,

we kind of wrote the

kind of process from,

from start to finish.

But yeah, I think the

customer journey is

probably our biggest

priority and making

that a same as on.

So, yeah, , we've done a

lot of work on on that.

So,

What's your

background much?

my background's

in architecture.

I have a master's

in architecture.

Worked in architecture

for about eight years.

At a great

practice, loved it.

But was not loving the

day to day grind of

architecture and wanted to

have more impact faster.

Architecture is

like a really slow,

tedious process.

And then Jeremy from

Braid introduced me

to Ben and the idea

that was good by gas.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he said, all right,

go over and work at

Goodbye Gas, start

the business with Ben,

build the operations

and just see how you go.

Um, and that was two

years ago and now

we're just a good time.

Yeah, I feel like it's come

a lot like it's interesting

looking back to that two

years ago, building this

whole process from scratch,

which is, yeah, it's a

nice process to go through

what does the future hold?

Like, what are you, what

are your, what are your

goals and aspirations

for Good Buy Gas?

fucking massive

market here.

how many homes are

we talking about

throughout Australia?

there's five million.

Apparently, that's

what it says.

So,

I reckon that, that

has, that, that has

to be conservative.

Surely that has to be

Well, eight million homes

don't meet current energy

efficiency standards.

At a minimum, I would say

eight million as well.

11 million homes in

Australia, around 5

million, those are

connected to gas.

In Victoria,

interestingly, we have 2.

5 million dwellings and

79 percent connected to

gas, which is around 2

million homes just in

Victoria connected to gas.

so we want to

be really busy.

So not only do we want

to electrify Victoria,

we want to electrify

the whole country.

And we want to do it

as quickly as possible.

So the goal is to scale.

Is there any government

incentives to do this?

as in building a scale

business.

yeah.

But like in a sense of the

average person, because not

everyone can afford this.

Yeah.

be honest here and to

create widespread change,

governments need to

invest into these sort of

things to create change.

We all know that they've

got their hands in each

other's pies and up each

other's asses, let's not,

when it talks about where

the energy comes from.

But without government

making real change to

this and incentivising

people to do so, does

this become widespread?

Because you can't

do it yourself.

no, it's so true.

It almost feels like

it's going to come

from both ends, right?

So, Victoria and the ACT

are leading in this space.

They're the first two

states to say no new

gas in new buildings.

And we're hoping that

the rest of the states

will follow suit.

And then perhaps, like,

organizations like

us or businesses like

us are working from

the bottom up to help

people actually do that.

And to spread awareness.

So that's also part of

what we do, isn't it, Ben?

Like advocacy and making

sure that people are aware

of the benefits of this

and why we have to do it

and why it's so important.

biggest barrier then?

aren't people doing this?

Other than cost.

Let's just remove

cost for a second.

What are the

misconceptions?

Why do people go,

Hey, don't want to

be all electric.

What are the

conspiracy theorists

essentially saying?

Yeah.

I still think people just

don't, know like we're in

a little bubble obviously.

Right.

So, I have these

conversations every

day about like with

like minded people.

And so I think it's just

like the broader Australia,

I don't actually know yet.

So I think you know, in

two years, it'll really

kick off cause it's still,

it's still a lot of early

adopters at the moment.

so what you're saying,

it's coming down to

education and if I can

kind of liken it to when

Matt and I first embarked

on our high performance

and passive house journey,

which I guess was when we

first started the whole

electrified home journey.

Approach and I look at it

now compared to then, five

years, six years ago, like,

it took me so much to get

a client across the line

to even put good building

wrap on now, now clients

are coming to me because

I want that solution.

I mean, and let's hope

that with companies like

Goodbye Gas, , paving the

way with education and,

and proof of concept that

more and more people are

going to jump on board.

the sun's shining today.

If people had, you know,

solar panels on their roof

too, the running of their

home, their operation

costs of their home's free.

Throw a battery on

there and, happy days.

Yeah, it's the

renewable energy.

It's the cheapest form

of electricity, right?

So the more renewables

we have, the cheaper

electricity grid gets.

So, yeah, we do need,

we need, you know,

obviously local solar

on people's homes.

We also need large

scale as well.

So, yeah, the more,

the more we're doing,

we do offer a

solar package.

I think advice to most

people is electrify.

I mean, look, a lot of

our customers have solar

already, but I think

if you're, if you're

starting from scratch,

getting rid of solar,

all your gas appliances.

I think we should, you

know, see what your new

demand is once you fully

electrified because your

electricity bills are

going to go up and your gas

bills are going to go down.

So finding your new kind

of peak and design a solar

system around that is what

my advice generally is.

So yeah, most of our

customers do it that way.

Otherwise, if you want

a solar system, yeah,

we can absolutely help.

If you're in a position

where solar panels aren't

practicable, right?

We've got shade and

all that kind of stuff.

There are really great

companies out there.

Can we name drop Momentum,

and say, they're offering

good solar Renewable

solutions for your home.

So you as a homeowner

actually do have a

choice of who you

get your energy from.

So is that a conversation

you have with your,

your clients too, when

you're going to electrify

their home and ask the

question of where they're

getting their power from?

Yeah, absolutely.

I suppose, yeah.

Like, whether you have

solar or not, buying

green power or renewable

power is really important.

Most retailers do it.

We're working with Momentum

specifically, but yeah,

it's, it's really important

and it's the single most

effective thing you can do.

Just pick up the phone

and tell your retailer,

I would like to buy green

power or renewable power.

If not, switch to a company

that does like Momentum.

Does it cost any more?

A little

yeah, I think it's about

five cents at the moment.

four or five

Yeah, okay, and Momentum

Energy, a lot of their,

they're also Tassie

Hydro, so they're

actually generating a lot

of electricity through

the hydro plants in,

somewhere in Tassie.

they're building the

Sun cable as well, which

is Mike Cannon Brooks's

cable, you know, so he's,

building a cable from

Singapore to Australia

to transfer, renewable

energy across, which is

going to be incredible.

which way , from Singapore

or both

ways, two ways.

it'll do both, but I

think they'll, um, will

essentially plug a solar

system on our side,

I imagine, sell them.

clean energy.

why can't we just frack

more and just send

more gas overseas?

Well, we currently do that

and we're not making any

money from it.

that's how you pay

for large scale home

electrification is you

tax gas companies that

are currently fracking

our country now.

That's how you pay for

Or you hold our

politicians liable

for future decisions.

They're the ones that

ultimately are the ones

that can make the change.

Are they not?

absolutely.

Like, if they're the

ones that are investing

in coal mines, and I

understand that we can't

flick a switch today

and we become electric.

Like, we need, there

needs to be some

form of transition.

, that's known and we are

going to need gas for a

certain period of time

to get across this.

Like, let's not

shy away from that.

But, to continue to invest

in these things for future

30, 40, 50, 60, 70 years,

it's just fucking stupid.

it baffles me and every

day when you read something

like that, it's just

How does this happen?

because because it's

everything short term

in politics these days.

There's no long

term outlook.

Everything's four years

to just get to the next

election, next election.

And that's why I just think

that they need to be held

responsible for choices

of future generations, to

aid in these decisions.

Um, because it's still

like, change is hard

for so many people.

it is difficult.

We've got to, we've

got to respect that.

I just think we just need

to, , help our future

generations to be put

in a more positive state

that we're not paying

back these shit things.

And at the end of the

day, it all comes down.

It also helps out

just outdoor air

environment, clean air.

Doesn't that

just make sense?

totally.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Hey guys, thanks for

coming and telling us

all about Good Buy Gas.

Like, in my opinion,

this is a direction that

we all have to go we're

going to get there.

And I mean, you

guys are obviously

making it super easy.

So, if you're just sitting.

Cutting off the

gas, jump on the

website, goodbye gas.

com.

au.

Thanks for coming on.

Thank.

Thanks guys.

And just one more thing for

anyone listening, Hamish

and I both appreciate it.

If you can jump

on, uh, your.

podcast, a channel by

choice, Apple, Spotify, and

please give us five stars,

, leave a comment, subscribe.

It would just really,

really help us get

some even better

guests going forward.

Like we've had some

pretty cool guests,

even better than

goodbye gas.

yeah, yeah, look, we, we're

going to get them back

on in the future, but the

whole idea is we, so we

can grow and so we can,

um, propel this thing.

We just need a bit more

love, which we're already

getting, but the more love

we can get, the better.

So please jump on.

Um, , hit that subscribe

button, it will really

mean a lot to Hamish and I.

So thank you

very much guys.

See ya.