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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Hi and welcome to the You World order showcase. Podcast I'm your host, Jill Hart. And with us today is Deborah Catt.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: She is a tantra teacher, professional dominatrix, sex intimacy and relationship coach podcast, host and she is all about helping. People have sex and relationships. They desire her podcast, is called the better sex, podcast and it's really our pleasure to have her come. Join us today. Welcome, Deborah.

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Deborah Kat: Thank you, Jill. I am so excited to be here.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: So tell us your story. Cause this is gonna be an interesting show. I'm sure.

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Deborah Kat: Well, thank you so much. I I like to say that I was lucky, and I got to be born in San Francisco, California.

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Deborah Kat: and the truth of the matter is is that I was really fortunate, and I got to see lots of different kinds of relationships and growing up, and I like to say that my own sexual experience started at the Renaissance Fair. And so, if you know anything about the Renaissance Fair, there's costumes, there's props, there's roles

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Deborah Kat: and you know, all of this sort of ended up in in my bedroom, and so, without really knowing it, I had a pretty large menu of different opportunities and and different things to play with.

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Deborah Kat: and I really didn't understand that I was kinky or outside of the box until I got to college, and I started dating guys that weren't part of the Renaissance fair.

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Deborah Kat: and they were like.

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Deborah Kat: What do you mean? You want to, you know. Have me dress up. What do you mean? You want me to be your lord and master, or your stable boy?

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Deborah Kat: And so, when that happened, it really shut me down like I was like, oh, my God! I want something strange and weird. And so that cloak of shame really came over me. And so what was fun and playful and expressive became very

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Deborah Kat: tight and rigid, and I was really trying to fit myself into the good girl box, and I pretty much gave up my desires, and really put all of my attention on what my partner wanted, because I didn't want to do anything that was too much

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Deborah Kat: and that lasted for about 10 years, and then the part of me that was not getting expressed was like, I am done here, and so I blew up a couple of relationships. And once I kind of got to the end of that. I was like, really, I I need to figure this out

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Deborah Kat: because relationship is such a big part of our lives. And sexuality is like, that's what we're. You know, these incredible bodies are made for. And so I started to, you know, question.

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Deborah Kat: And and I started to research. And so I spent the last 20 years taking Tantra classes and relationship classes and coaching and looking under all of the different techniques there were around sexuality.

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Deborah Kat: And

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Deborah Kat: so and I've been lucky enough to on my journey have some incredible teachers and have some great support around around being expressed around my sexuality and and my relationships, and really learning that relationship is such an opportunity

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Deborah Kat: for us to you know, I I like to say that it is literally the best form of personal growth, because, you know, it could all look great on paper until we're in person together.

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Deborah Kat: And so and so I've been lucky enough to get to work with people across across the globe and with all sorts of different kinds of relationships in terms and all sorts of kinds of people.

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Deborah Kat: And so so that's how I got here.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: That's a great story. It's a great journey. And it's

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: interesting to me that there are so many ways to express relationships and sexuality. And we're not tied down to the

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Judeo Christian. You have to. You have to do it this way, or you're a bad person, and you're going to hell.

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Deborah Kat: Right, which.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Was like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: so dominated dominated the

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: the landscape, especially in the United States. Maybe in other countries it wasn't quite so rigid, but it's it was a big thing for many, many years, and really flavored relationships altogether.

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Deborah Kat: Absolutely. And unfortunately, it's sort of we're. We're on a wave where?

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Deborah Kat: Where that is coming back again.

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Deborah Kat: And you know, I I think there's so many different kinds of relationships. And one of the relationships that I don't think gets enough.

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Deborah Kat: of the spotlight is really be, you know, really tight platonic relationships, whether they're between women, whether they're between men, whether they're, you know, across gender, but really solid Platonic relationships are so important

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Deborah Kat: and

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Deborah Kat: the same skills that we have, like relationship skills are across the board.

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Deborah Kat: yes, they have a different flavor when we're lovers, when we're in committed relationships. And they're pretty much the same, you know. It's the same tools across the board, including our Platonic relationships. And I've been, you know, I read something recently that you know, the quality of our life is

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Deborah Kat: really based in in the quality of our relationships. And when we have these different flavors, whether it's, you know, good friends, people that you know our neighbors where we can have the kind of relationship where we can, you know. Use the lawn mower if you will.

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Deborah Kat: as well as having tight familial and sexual relationships. It's really what flavors our lives in general.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Being able to just

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: express yourself as who you are, rather than having to show up

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: as

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: as somebody else.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: But

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: in showing up as yourself.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: You don't have to just be one dimensional.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Today. You could show up as

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: you're the podcast host. Tomorrow, you could show up as

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: the wench from the Renaissance.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: It's okay.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: It's

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: you can play. You can have fun. Life is about in

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: joy and laughter, and and it's the whole world is a playground.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: you know.

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Deborah Kat: Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, the one thing I will say about that is learning how to to to modulate if you will. So I'm the same person, no matter where I go now.

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Deborah Kat: depending on the conversation or the connection I'm having. You know, I'm gonna want to be able to actually connect with that person. Right? So it's less about changing who I am.

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Deborah Kat: And it's more about finding the places where we can connect.

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Deborah Kat: Right? So you know I, my neighbor, is, you know, the church choir leader and you know he's very conservative. His, you know. Wife is the the solo soprano. And and so they have a very they're very committed to that life. Now

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Deborah Kat: we have a great connection, and we have a great, a great relationship.

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Deborah Kat: because we found the places where we can connect right, the our concern for our neighborhood, our concern for each other as neighbors. You know, particularly during the pandemic we would check in on each other a lot. And you know, do you need anything? Do you want anything?

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Deborah Kat: And that relationship has actually bloomed into a much more vibrant relationship than I would have imagined. You know it's it's a very different experience to be able to see them for who they are and be able to connect where we can. Now.

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Deborah Kat: I don't.

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Deborah Kat: You know, they they

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Deborah Kat: I'm not exactly sure if they found my podcast or not. But like that's not the part of our. That's not the part of our relationship that gets the highlight, you know. It's not something I'm ashamed of. It's not something I

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Deborah Kat: you know.

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Deborah Kat: If it comes up I'd be glad to talk to them about it. But it's not what I lead with.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Exactly. This is

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: we used to call it Manners back in the old days. But it's it's knowing where

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: where you can

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: meet people and have relationships with people or conversations or experiences

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: that they don't. They don't. All have to be the same experience with every person that you run into.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: You can have different experiences with different people.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: which I think makes life more rich.

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Deborah Kat: Absolutely, absolutely. And the you know, the ability to communicate in with different folks. You know. One of the things I see is it's like people are very you know they they're I'm I'm seeing more rigidness around who people are willing to connect with in terms of, you know what they're thinking about the other person, what they're projecting on the other person.

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Deborah Kat: And so

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Deborah Kat: I'm noticing that there's less and less communication going on across

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Deborah Kat: you know, outside of of our chosen groups or our chosen families. If you will.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Echo, chambers.

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Deborah Kat: Our echo Chamber is beautiful. That's a great way to put it. Yes, thank you.

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Deborah Kat: And it's so important to be able to have those conversations.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Without Labels.

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Deborah Kat: Without labels. Exactly. I I run an event. Called Tantra speed date, and one of the most one of my favorite parts is, we all stand in the circle, and we say, you know, we answer the question, what's 1 fun fact about you?

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Deborah Kat: And invariably the person that you would least expect is the person who has, like, you know, taken a picture with Oprah, or climbed Mount Everest, or is like, you know, speaks 10 languages. I mean, it's always

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Deborah Kat: I. I love that that particular moment because I always get challenged there, you know, because it's so easy to just look at somebody and decide who they are

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Deborah Kat: and not

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Deborah Kat: and not actually, you know, have that moment of like, who really? Who are you like? What? What is your deal, Leo?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: And be open to letting them just be who they are, and not have to make an opinion about

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: all the facets of their life based on one small comment.

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Deborah Kat: Absolutely, absolutely allowing people to be who they are. Such is so important. And I think, you know, when I think about my own relationships. I've been with my partner for over 24 years, and you know it started out. If we weren't i i was not expecting it to be a long term relationship. But the thing of it is is that this is the place where I feel gotten.

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Deborah Kat: This is the place where I feel safe. This is this the place where I feel appreciated for all of my many facets? I mean, he doesn't go on all of my adventures with me. But he's like, Okay, Babe, I get it. This is who you are.

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Deborah Kat: and I appreciate part of that for you, you know, and likewise, you know, he has a very different way of being in the world than I do.

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Deborah Kat: But the fact that, like there is, you know, that we can communicate about

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Deborah Kat: that. We have great communication, and that he's clear about what his yes is and his no is and what what which rides he's willing to take with me, and which rides. He's just gonna sit out

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Deborah Kat: like being able to be to have that kind of power in your relationship, to have the power to say yes and no, to know what is right for you, and to have, you know, a partnership where it's like you can find the the balance that works. If you will.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I have a

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I've been married for 30 years, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: my husband and I. Our lives are much better now

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: than before. We had 3 kids in there. I have 2 other kids that are much older, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: it's we have always been able to communicate with each other.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: And we've we're both the kind of people we need space

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: by ourselves. And even though we're both home all the time.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: he used to be a truck driver, so he's gone a lot. Which is why I need all this space

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: like, I don't need you hovering over me. 24, 7. I have my own life to live. Go, build a life of your own, and he does. I mean he does things. He has adventures, he has friends, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and when we get together and we walk every day, so we have an hour every morning where we connect.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and then we have things that we do throughout the week

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: together. We may do it with other people. We have a hiking that we do on Sundays, but we have dates.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and we have bedroom time, but we also have time that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: we don't have to be like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: being with somebody else.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: It works for us. But it it became. It came about, because we are really good at communicating with each other about what we want.

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Deborah Kat: And what we.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Don't want.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and and we we joke about it at this point, because I, instead of being the victim in a situation

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: we try to empower each other. And there's things that we each do. Because, you know, you're in a relationship with another human being, you're gonna do stuff that annoys the other person.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I do it to him, and he does it to me. But we really work on

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: trying to have humor in it, or finding the humor in it, because it's much easier

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: to

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: to change your behavior, to try to help somebody else's reaction to what you're doing. If

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: if they don't feel like they're being attacked.

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Deborah Kat: Absolutely I love. I love that. You guys have a ritual of walking together. And I have to say, you know, for my for for my partner and I. When we started we do Pilates together 3 days a week.

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Deborah Kat: and it literally has changed our lives, because, you know, we have that time together. It's the time where we support each other in showing up.

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Deborah Kat: We also get to have that time of like, you know, we'll run errands afterwards, or whatever.

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Deborah Kat: And so. But we have this together time. It's so important, and I want to just sort of piggyback on what you said about

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Deborah Kat: I'm not exactly sure how you phrased it, but

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Deborah Kat: what it. What I heard was, basically you have. You expect good intent from your partner? So? And and one of the things I often see with with couples, especially when we get into

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Deborah Kat: conflict.

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Deborah Kat: is that there's this place where we start looking at our partners. They're doing something. They're doing something wrong, and they're doing something to us.

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Deborah Kat: and the truth of the matter is, whatever they're doing makes perfect sense to them.

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Deborah Kat: and

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Deborah Kat: chances are it's not necessarily they're not trying to undermine us. And so you know, but it's but when we're triggered it's really easy to forget that it's really easy to see or to hear. Our partners wants desires and needs, as somehow either undermining us, or or possibly even attacking.

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Deborah Kat: And so really, coming back to that place of positive intent

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Deborah Kat: and remembering that like, okay.

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Deborah Kat: I understand it doesn't quite feel this way, but I'm sure

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Deborah Kat: I'm sure

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Deborah Kat: he has a good reason for doing that the way he's doing it, or for you know, for being so passionate about about it being done this way.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Yeah. And there's some things that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: if you just ask, you may find it's an opportunity for you to serve rather than be

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: angry. And I have an example of that. My husband drinks protein shakes in a Mason jar.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: even though we use wide mouth, Mason jars, I never realized he couldn't put his hand inside.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: so he would always leave it to soak in the sink and dishes in the sink. I wash. I hand, wash all the dishes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and it drives me crazy when people just leave things in the sink to soak, because to me that means

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: they expect me to do them.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: When I found out that he couldn't put his hand in the mason jar, because I also like them to be cleaned really? Well, because, you know, don't have a dishwasher.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I it was like, well, of course

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I will just wash those, because

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: you can't do it the way I want it done. You're not doing it maliciously. It's just a physical thing that you can't do, and I can takes me, you know, 15 seconds to wash the Mason jar.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: It could take me all day to get over the butt. Hurt I would have

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: if I wanted to run that loop in my head that he's just doing this to piss me off.

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Deborah Kat: exactly. And it's so funny. Because so

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Deborah Kat: a lot of the conflict, I see with couples.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Huh!

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Deborah Kat: Does come up around around around chores and around expectations and around, not understanding each other's values.

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Deborah Kat: For instance, you know.

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Deborah Kat: there's the whole thing of

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Deborah Kat: back to the dishes for just a moment. We actually got rid of our dishwasher because it made me so crazy the way that my partner like

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Deborah Kat: there is there. I will say that I'm kind of rigid around dishwash, dishwasher.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Yeah.

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Deborah Kat: you know, loading the dishwasher, and we just couldn't like his value was. Well, it's done. My value was well, I want to do it this way, because it's it.

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Deborah Kat: It makes sense to me.

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Deborah Kat: So we couldn't actually find a a good way to discuss it at the time. I think now, 15 years later, we could probably actually have a dishwasher.

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Deborah Kat: But it it was just a really interesting unwinding like. Every once in a while we'll have a conversation about it. And it was like realizing like, oh.

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Deborah Kat: what he valued in that moment was different than what I valued. What he valued was just getting the dishes off of the counter and into the dishwasher, and once they were there, you know, he figured well, his his solution was, if they weren't clean enough the 1st time you just ran it a second time.

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Deborah Kat: Great, which

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Deborah Kat: I mean, that is a solution, right?

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Deborah Kat: And so you know what we're pointing here to here with with dishes is, you know, the way that we actually unwind conversations. And we unwind some of the things that get really sticky is start, you know, starting with positive the idea of positive attend

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Deborah Kat: finding out like, well, what is, what is the value that you're that you're that. What is the thing that's valuable to to the way that you're behaving?

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Deborah Kat: And how can we find a a solution for it? I don't suggest getting rid of the dishwasher. You know, looking back, that feels a little extreme. However, it's the way that we worked it out.

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Deborah Kat: and you know, in time, since we've been able to like figure out like, Oh, this is what I do really. Well, and this is what I want really. Well, and this is what you do really? Well, so I'm gonna leave that for you. And I'm gonna do this. And finding those compromises, you know, takes

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Deborah Kat: it. It can take, you know some, some wrangling and and some some some edgy communication, if you will.

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Deborah Kat: but those are the places where you practice the communication, so that when other things come up, you can actually have those conversations as well.

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Deborah Kat: You know.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Recognizing that not everybody

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: comes to the

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: place that you're at at the same time and speed

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I I can look at your your dishwasher controversy, and I can see.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and putting myself in your position

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: because I feel this way. And I did have a dishwasher

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: 20 years ago, but I got rid of it because I had 3 kids and a husband and a father in law who all lived together, and they didn't value cleaning the dishes as well, and I hate emptying the dishwasher. I'll unload a dish tray.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: but I hate emptying a dishwasher

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: so.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and people would. They would just put dirty dishes in on top of the clean dishes, and that would drive me crazy. It's like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: just empty the dishwasher

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: they put your shit in there. But anyway.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I'm really big on

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: clean dishes. I I want the dishes to be clean and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: just hiding them isn't the same as cleaning them.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and that was a lot of, you know, putting dirty dishes on top of clean dishes

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: instead of like just doing the thing. So

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: my husband isn't really good at cleaning dishes. I've been doing dishes for

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: 60 years.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I always had to do dishes when I was growing up. I'm good at it. I can do it quickly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: He he's learning.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and I have to have patience with that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: you know, and sometimes I just need to redo it and not make a big deal about it, because he's trying.

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Deborah Kat: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's all those different phases, too, of like, you know what? It's just not worth the the argument.

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Deborah Kat: not to overdo the dishes metaphor, but I in my in my torrid youth I lived in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, Alaska and I had no running water, and I had no electricity. And so

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Deborah Kat: part of you know, the process of dishes is, it is literally a gratitude practice like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Yes.

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Deborah Kat: Many years, later.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Meditation.

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Deborah Kat: The fact that I can like turn on hot water, and it comes right out of the sink.

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Deborah Kat: You know it's still

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Deborah Kat: it delights me. It still brings me back to that. You know the 20 year old version of me, and it real. It really is the process of like, you know, as you said, a meditation of gratitude of like wow!

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Deborah Kat: You know I can. I can do this. I have this and

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Deborah Kat: you know it. It's 1 of those things that I can look back on and say, You know, no matter where I'm at in this place, I can look back and remember being without running water, being without electricity, and being completely happy like that period of time.

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Deborah Kat: was also, you know, quite a profound it. It was quite a profound period of time, and really shaped

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Deborah Kat: many of my values and many of the things that make me happy.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: And recognizing it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I I think that when you can recognize it in yourself.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: then you can allow other people

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: to be who they are, and let them have experiences, and not

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: not make their life miserable because you want them to be you

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: up to me. Then.

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Deborah Kat: Absolutely. I mean, relationship would really be boring if we were. All the same, you know, part of what is the exciting you know part of what brings in the chemistry the polarity, if you will. The excitement, especially in the bedroom, is that we are different, right? That there is a way that we show up, that is,

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Deborah Kat: you know that sparks each other. And so, you know, when we know more about that, when we're willing to to be ourselves and bring that to the bedroom.

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Deborah Kat: And when we're willing to. Not just accept but celebrate those differences, you know. That's when that's where and when the magic happens.

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Deborah Kat: you know, in terms of just being able to. I mean, if if nobody initiates, nothing's gonna happen, if you're always initiating and nobody's actually responding. Nothing's gonna happen. There has to be that, you know, someone's initiating, someone's responding. There's a give and a take. And you know, sex looks different for. For

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Deborah Kat: so what we see in in basic culture is 2 people coming together. There's a little bit of foreplay. Maybe there's some kissing. There's escalation. There is climax, both people climaxing at the same time. Oftentimes they're sort of in this swirly like, you know, the music and the and the swirls and the and the the camera angles, and all of that good stuff. And then the next thing you see is napping.

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Deborah Kat: and most of us don't actually have sex that way. Most of us like have a a there's more, there's more connection, there's more foreplay, or

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Deborah Kat: or maybe we are the kind of person who, it's like, you know, has that very quick erotic arc

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Deborah Kat: you know. But most of us have a different have a have a longer arc. You know, most of us need a little bit of

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Deborah Kat: anticipation

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Deborah Kat: right? And most of us need a little bit more.

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Deborah Kat: you know we don't need 3 different

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Deborah Kat: 3 different positions, or we don't need it to to look exactly the way that it looks

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Deborah Kat: that we see other people doing it. It's like we all have our own way of doing it. One of my favorite

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Deborah Kat: tools that I like to use is the erotic blueprints and the erotic blueprints is this idea that there are different ways, that we are sexual, and there are different ways that we're central and that we're aroused.

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Deborah Kat: And so some of us are very energetic, and it's enough just to gaze in each other's in these other, in each other's eyes. Some of us that does not do like. We really need that friction and that temperature and that and that connection. And then there's everything in between. And so what I've learned, you know, in in my work and with working with, you know, hundreds of couples is that

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Deborah Kat: when we actually tune into what makes us.

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Deborah Kat: you know what turns us on what is exciting for us when we know our own bodies, and we know our pleasure zones, then we can play with others in a way that is fun and satisfying. And you know.

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Deborah Kat: we get to give and take in terms of like, wow! You know this. This isn't exactly the way that I would do things. However, I love the look on your face when I do this, or you know it feels so good when you touch me this way, and could you do it a little bit? A little bit lighter, a little bit more to the left, a little bit more.

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Deborah Kat: A little bit more nails. You know, we have all of these different ways that we can touch and be touched.

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Deborah Kat: And so it's so important to be able to know, like

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Deborah Kat: what feels good.

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Deborah Kat: and to be able to tell our partners in a way that they can hear us right. One of the biggest mistakes that I see in the bedroom specifically is when something doesn't feel good. It sounds like Nope, that doesn't feel good. Do something else

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Deborah Kat: versus.

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Deborah Kat: Oh, you know what

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Deborah Kat: I would love just a little bit more pressure and a little bit to the left, and that would feel so much better

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Deborah Kat: and so kind of being able to talk to your partner in a way that doesn't make them wrong that appreciates like oh, there's

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Deborah Kat: you know, there's.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Effort.

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Deborah Kat: Well, they're making an effort and again coming back to the positive intent. It's like they want me to feel good.

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Deborah Kat: right? And so, you know, being able to communicate that in a way that feels good, that feels sexy. That's like, Oh, I'm not wrong, and if I do it just a little bit this way. It'll be even more so for both of us, because most of us get pleasure from our partners. Pleasure

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Deborah Kat: right

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Deborah Kat: and you know it can get really tricky, though, when we get when we put our attention so much on the other person that we're not, we're not receiving pleasure of our own right. Because again, you know, just like the dynamics of the polarity of

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Deborah Kat: you know, there's there's polarity and dance within the sexual experience. So you know again, it's like there has to be a receiver and a giver. And hopefully, you're working together so that those those lines are blurred.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Kind of like dancing.

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Deborah Kat: Exactly exactly. I mean in dancing it like, I I like to talk about tango a lot, because it's so. You know, there's such a leader, and there's such a follower.

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Deborah Kat: Except for when you're actually dancing, you have to be able to feel into the movement.

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Deborah Kat: And so it's always a response. It's always a a reaction and a re and a response, and and

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Deborah Kat: exactly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Yeah.

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Deborah Kat: Fix it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: We call it a leader and a follower. But it's really 2 people working together.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: They just have different

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: positions that they're playing, or roles of playing.

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Deborah Kat: Well. And one of the things I like to talk about in relationship is there's there's 2 people. And then there's the 3.rd Or what is this relationship about? Right? Because it's like? And if you're in a long term relationship. And I'm imagining you've had this experience like

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Deborah Kat: what the relationship about changes.

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Deborah Kat: you know, in the beginning it can be about, you know, the acquiring and consolidation of wealth, or

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Deborah Kat: having children, or, you know, but, generally speaking as as that relationship ages, it's more about support and companionship.

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Deborah Kat: And so, you know, really being really noticing where you're at with the relationship. And are you guys in the same place.

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Deborah Kat: super important.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: And allowing yourself

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: to be able to change and adjust.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: especially as you age like, I can say

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: my life is so much better

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: after menopause than it was before menopause.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: And our sex life is much better, you know, before menopause you're always worried about. Oh, God! Am I going to get pregnant

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: at an inopportune time.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I mean that consumed a lot of my life. I was young.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: but

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: after menopause it would it just

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I I could say, you stop caring, but you care in a different way. It's like you can have more fun. You could just show up, you know. Guys tend to show up in the bedroom.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and they're they're ready. They they want to have fun and have an experience.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Women

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: a lot. I'm not gonna say all women. But I used to show up thinking I wanna have fun. Oh, God, I hope I don't get pregnant. I wanna have fun. Oh, God! I hope I don't get pregnant. And so there was always that thing that held me back.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Yeah. And

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and now that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: that's all gone, it's just like I can show up. I can have fun. We can have a good time. We can

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: play, and and it doesn't have to be mission driven. And

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: you know there's times when people want to get pregnant. And then it's like we're in here for a reason. And we're gonna get the job done.

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Deborah Kat: Right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: All kinds of different pressure on you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Is this, like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: different stages in your life? Offer different opportunities and different

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: experiences to be had and and shared with a partner.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: apps more than one partner.

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Deborah Kat: Absolutely, and thank you for bringing that up, because I think you know, it's 1 of the things that

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Deborah Kat: I like to talk about, you know, especially with my, you know the men that I work with, who I'm who are dating. It's like it is really important for you to be in charge of your reproductive health. We talk a lot about women and women's reproductive health. But, gentlemen.

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Deborah Kat: you know it is, you have a big part in this. And so, knowing your own cycle, knowing you know your arousal cycle taking precautions is very important, because, you know, pregnancy is a beautiful thing when we want it.

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Deborah Kat: And you know, it can be incredible experience and talk about a freaking opportunity for personal growth. You know.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Yeah.

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Deborah Kat: You know, that is the ultimate. I think you know, relationship is big, but you know parenthood is is really incredible. And so, being ready for it is important, and being, you know.

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Deborah Kat: a a

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Deborah Kat: not just, a willing participant, but an active participant in your own reproductive health is so important, and you know, for for the gentleman again, it's like, you know. As Jill was saying, you know that is a real concern that we women have when we're in a sexual experience. So having you be on top of your reproductive health, having condoms, knowing your cycles, being able to have some

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Deborah Kat: you know lack for lack of a better word, you know, relationship with your your erection and your ejaculation is so important because it's going to help. It's going to help your partners relax right. There is nothing a woman wants to hear

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Deborah Kat: sweeping generality. Then, Babe, I got it. I have you. I'm handling it, and

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Deborah Kat: you can relax here.

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Deborah Kat: right? So having. And and this kind of goes back to what I was talking about earlier is having the, you know, being able to have the the

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Deborah Kat: the uncomfortable conversations, and the uncomfortable conversations around sex.

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Deborah Kat: You know.

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Deborah Kat: again, a really part of the quality of what ends up happening like, can you talk about? Can you talk about these things? Can you talk about you know what you like, what you don't like?

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Deborah Kat: what is who? You know the responsibility around the reproductive health pieces around Stds around? You know. What?

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Deborah Kat: What do you?

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Deborah Kat: What do you want? What is your. And what does this relationship in the sexuality mean? Right? So for some people, again, we come to sex for different reasons. Right? Some of us just want some stress release some of us. This is a place of deep intimacy and deep spirituality for some of us. This is a place where we can be vulnerable.

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Deborah Kat: You know, for for men, particularly post sex can be an incredible place to be vulnerable.

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Deborah Kat: and one that doesn't isn't allowed for them in many other places in in their lives. So

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Deborah Kat: and I think that's a really under under understood piece around, you know why people want sexuality. Connection is a huge piece of it.

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Deborah Kat: and I think that oftentimes we don't give that to ourselves. We don't allow for for all of those different emotions, and we don't have the conversation of like, Hey, you know, this is what I'm actually looking for in sex, you know, this is what's important to me. And right now I'm talking to folks who are more in the dating realm than than.

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Deborah Kat: I'm already in relationship, but like

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Deborah Kat: having a conversation about what it's like, what you would like

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Deborah Kat: on the aftercare side, you know. Hey?

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Deborah Kat: I I just want you to know I'm the kind of person where it's like, I'm not a cuddler, or, you know, I I really am gonna need us to slow down after sex and I'd like us to spend a few minutes cuddling or taking a shower together, you know. I mean, these are the edgy conversations that really are going to up.

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Deborah Kat: upgrade up, up, level your your sexual experiences.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: I can give you another one, too, and that is understanding your partner's cycle.

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Deborah Kat: Hmm.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: There are women today, and my daughter taught me this when I was young and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: still having periods.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: my periods were all over the place

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: but my daughter, one of my daughters.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: She she is so in tune with her body.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: She knows when she's ovulating. She knows when she's gonna start. She. She just knows her whole cycle.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: and her partner knows her cycle, too.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: so they can. There's less chance of pregnancy in a relationship like that than there is in a relationship where

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: you way can't communicate to your partner. Hey?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: This is where I am in my cycle, and you know if we fool around right now, there's

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: a much greater chance of pregnancy happening than if we wait

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: until a different day.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: But

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: if your partner understands what your cycle is, and they're not going to want something at a time when it's really not

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: convenience

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: for lack of a better word.

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Deborah Kat: And and there are definitely times within a woman's cycle where she's more interested, more amorous. And there's times when it's like Babe. I just need to rest. I'm exhausted.

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Deborah Kat: And it, you know, men also have a cycle. But it's more connected to their stress level. Right? So for some men. When they get really stressed. They want that

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Deborah Kat: that stress release for other men when they're incredibly stressed. The last thing on their mind is sexuality. And so you know again, knowing your partners, rhythms, knowing your partner's cycles, can be so helpful. And also, you know, the one of the things that I, I hear often is like, well, I want it to be spontaneous, like when we were dating.

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Deborah Kat: and I just want to say that that

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Deborah Kat: the truth of the matter is, is, it wasn't spontaneous, right? You had a date on Friday night. It was Wednesday. You were figuring out what you were gonna wear. You were thinking about it. You were like, Oh, we're gonna go to dinner and then drinks. And so

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Deborah Kat: none of it was like 3 days of anticipation.

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Deborah Kat: And so you know.

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Deborah Kat: having that you know, being able to build anticipation in a long term, relationship is super important. So having those dates having celebrations having rituals, having conversations, trying new things together, super important to keep that juice alive and to keep that

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Deborah Kat: you know the sexuality and the sensuality going. Yeah.

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Deborah Kat: And one last thing I just wanted to add in about sexual energy, since we've been talking a lot about, you know, is that that sexual energy is creative energy, and it can be used in so many different ways. You know, we've been talking a lot about, you know, pregnancy and having children. And of course that is one way that we create.

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Deborah Kat: but that energy is so available to us for other kinds of creativity. Whether you are a gardener, whether you're a painter, whether you are creating, you know a business that sexual energy and cultivating it, and knowing your cycle of like. Oh.

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Deborah Kat: now is the time for me to you know I'm feeling exuberant, and I'm feeling open. And now's the time to really.

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Deborah Kat: you know, create the different things versus you know, there's there's definitely

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Deborah Kat: a time in my cycle where I'm like, this is the time to call the debtors, because you know what I've got a lot of energy. It's a very direct. It's the time when I need to call my bank and say, you know, I need a different rate on my credit card, like, you know, we've got different cycles, and it's more apparent in women. However, gentlemen, you have it too, and I invite you to notice. You know what is my cycle?

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Deborah Kat: I'm a big believer in

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Deborah Kat: the moon, and you know, tracking the moon, because if nothing else at the full moon. That's a time of release, right? It's a time to clean and clear

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Deborah Kat: the new moon. That's a time to plant seeds. That's a time to plan. And so you know

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Deborah Kat: whether it's actually true in the astrological world seems to work for me. But I do know that just like having those different cycles, having a time for clearing. Having a time for planting. Is really, you know, adds to the creative process, adds to the sensuality, adds to the sexuality

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Deborah Kat: and supports really beautiful relationships.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Does, for sure. So how do people work with you, Deborah?

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Deborah Kat: Oh, my goodness! So thank you so much for asking. I work with couples and singles as well. I work online and in person. If you are in the Silicon Valley Bay Area.

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Deborah Kat: and you can find me at Deborah Cat Com, and there's an opportunity for us to have a short conversation to see you know what's what's going on in your world? And are we a good match? And if not, what are some resources that I can point you to.

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Deborah Kat: I'm also

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Deborah Kat: a facilitator for Tantra speed date, which is also a bay area. Well, I facilitate in the Bay Area. But this is something that's available worldwide. It's a beautiful way to heal and connect and change up your dating relationship. And you can find out about that also. On my website at Deborah cat Com.

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Deborah Kat: and also check out the podcast

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Deborah Kat: the better sex podcast it's available on apple and spotify and all the good places. It's also available on Youtube. And

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Deborah Kat: I'm I'm moving towards being more video oriented on Youtube, but the better sex podcast

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Deborah Kat: where we have unfiltered conversations about sex and relationship.

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Deborah Kat: And

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Deborah Kat: yeah, I'm also on the socials, for as Deborah Tantrakat, and that's DEBO, RAH,

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Deborah Kat: TART, a KAT. And I invite you to check me out and I'm always happy to answer questions and

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Deborah Kat: check it out.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: So what's the one thing that you hope the audience takes away from our conversation today?

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Deborah Kat: Oh, my goodness! Such a great conversation! Thank you so much, Jill.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: No fun.

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Deborah Kat: I know I love. Thank you so much. What do I want people to get away? Get? What do I want people to walk away with.

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Deborah Kat: I think overall. I just really want to invite you to get to know your own you know we talked about cycles to get you to know yourself and to know that your relationship, that your sexuality is unique

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Deborah Kat: and

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Deborah Kat: that you get to create what works for you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: They're okay.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist & Host of the You World Order Showcase Podcast: Thanks so much for joining me, Deborah.

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Deborah Kat: Oh, my pleasure! Thank you so much, Jill, for all that you do in the world, and for for having me as a guest. My pleasure.