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Hey everybody.

Scott Ludwin with Supply Chain now as we continue our coverage of the Sapiks annual conference here in beautiful Cape Town, South Africa.

Meeting with all the movers and shakers across industry, at least a lot of them, like my friend Esther Indishaux, who is with people that deliver.

Esther, how are you doing today?

Good, thank you.

Very good.

Happy to be in Cape Town.

Yes, it is.

It's a nice time.

But you know what, when I was here two years ago, we had colder rainy weather, which I hear is atypical this time of year.

And as I get here this year, getting ready to want to get out and see the sights and sounds, it's.

Cold and rainy again.

I hope I'm not bad luck.

But anyway, that's Cape Town for you.

Okay.

Esther, so nice to meet you.

I wish we had several hours here with you because you've got a fascinating background and journey and we're going to get to some of that here today.

But I want to start with kind of a fun Mormon question.

Now, I've been doing my homework about you and I hear that part of your journey, you're avid, an avid, avid farmer.

You love a passion for farming, is that right?

I do, I do, I do.

As we are sharing pre show, I have tried to grow things my entire adult life and I've had almost, I mean, even when I shifted from vegetables to some, I was like, I told myself, one year I'm gonna do flowers.

Flowers gotta be easier, right?

Hardly any luck.

So, Esther, as a, as a more successful farmer, give me a tip.

Successful?

I'm not so sure.

I mean, there are days I keep.

Thinking probably my money would have been better invested in the stock market or something even today.

But you know, I keep going on and I keep thinking that it's gonna work out.

So I've got a farm.

I've planted avocados in macadamia.

I have about a total of 1400 trees.

Wow.

And then I also have part time, short term crops that I've plant.

Samuel, you asked about tomatoes earlier.

Please, let's not talk about tomatoes.

Very, very painful.

I've lost a lot of money.

I laughed with you, not at you.

I promise I can laugh now.

I've cried before.

But we keep going back.

I feel like it's my role to try and address some of the food security issues we have in Kenya.

And the best way to do that is by farming.

I was also lucky that my family was able to has some land available.

So that was good.

Some days I'm happy about it and then there are days that I am really.

I really question my choices.

I thought coming in from a logistics background, I had it down packed.

I took a three month course on agriculture and agriculture as a business and I thought I could apply it all.

But between nobody prepared me for the staffing issues.

Nobody.

Well, I knew of course climate change is real so we've had to deal with some of those issues as well.

The market, you know, you think you've got the market down packed and seasonality is down and the next thing you know we've got imports coming in from some of the neighboring countries in East Africa.

So it's been interesting.

Sounds.

So all of that told.

I bet you've got a new profound sense of admiration for farm for farmers who've been doing it for years.

Absolutely, absolutely.

I spent some time in South Africa and would, you know, would go on road trips to some of the other provinces, Pomalanga and you'd see all these large industrial type or commercial farms.

And I'm thinking that's me.

Well, there's a lot more that needs.

To be done for me to be able to get to that level.

But you know, we're persistent.

It will, it'll happen.

And Esther, I gotta ask you first off, I'm really so jealous.

The problem properties and the land and the 1400 trees.

I bet when you get out there and you walk the property and you, you, you know, pick things from your trees or your crops, that's got to be that those moments have to be really fulfilling, rewarding.

No, absolutely.

I sell some of my products I sell to wholesalers.

Okay.

And then I typically will leave some to sell to like family members, neighbors and the rest of the.

And I still have aunties who are like you came from corporate America to start playing around with dirt and now.

We'Re eating your produce.

And I, you know, I've kind of tried to go in the route of I'll have your fast moving products or go of food.

And then I also have some niche stuff.

So I've got strawberries, I have plant broccoli, cauliflower, things that I like and that I found were difficult to to find in the Kenyan market.

Yeah.

But the response has been amazing.

Some, some folks think I'm just joking around.

But you're serious.

But I'm serious about it.

All right.

So when I come back next time.

I'd love to get a tour.

We'll work out the logistics.

We can do that stuff, right.

Love it.

And it's important to have departures from everything else that we're doing in this journey.

I want to along those lines, I want to get to know you a little bit better.

You and I were talking about some of your previous career journey earlier and we've got some common themes there.

We both have spent a ton of time in the metro Atlanta area, which is a great city to do business in and live in and meet wonderful people in.

So when you think about some of your previous roles, what's one leadership role that really sticks out, that really shaped your worldview?

So 2.

1.

So I spent a lot of my formative years, professional years, in Atlanta, worked for Rider Systems for seven years, then I joined UPS and then left.

Got an opportunity to move into the international world at UPS in 2011.

2011?

Yeah, 2011, 2012.

And moved to Brussels.

So then that just kind of opened up my career options in the UPS International, my role in South Africa.

So in 2018, I got an opportunity to be the managing director for UPS east and Southern Africa.

And that was a big opportunity for me.

One not only because I'd always said I wanted to move to work in the continent.

Believe it or not, I have been away from Kenya or Africa, living and working in Africa for almost 30 years.

So I left to go to college and I just never went back.

But that role gave me an opportunity to understand firsthand the talent that we have on the continent, the opportunities that we have in the continent, from a business, the network, the complexities of working here.

And on top of that, I mean, I was the first black managing director, Black female managing director that they had on the continent.

So there are four different business units on the continent.

And so from a leadership perspective, tried me it was a challenge.

But also acknowledge the fact that I had it in me to be able to manage a group of people from a local talent pool.

It was the first time my staff here had had a woman leading the organization.

A black person leading the organization, male or female.

Was also the first time that we had the largest diversity within our business planning group.

And what that did, it showed them that there is an opportunity they could grow in the organization.

I was able to intentionally focus on diversity projects that allowed us to bring in younger people into supply chain and the country.

And at that point, by the time I was exiting South Africa to move back to the States, I was sure that I needed to move back to Africa.

This is where I need to be.

I thrive.

Being on the continent, the energy is palpating.

It's just where I thrive.

And I feel like I can be able to give back more and more.

And, yeah, then that kind of started my exit back to the continent.

That is remarkable.

And we really need more hours to dive more into that.

That's a very emotional discussion, by the way.

So that one gets me all.

Yeah.

Well, a very important part of your overall journey.

I want to ask one quick, before we get to people that deliver, to be the first black female and break those barriers that you were talking about, that proverbial glass ceiling.

As we've been interviewing over the course of years.

When I meet with female leaders in industry, a lot of them talk about the see it and to be it.

And they love to be able to feel that spotlight to help those that can see that they can elevate up the career ladder and not just be in the industry, but command industry, so to speak.

Your quick comments on that.

You know, I'm on a panel actually tomorrow on the women, Women in leadership and supply chain.

And as I was preparing for it, one of the things I just kept thinking is, once you get there, what are you doing for everybody else?

And it's not even, you know, we typically think about our junior employees, but it's actually, it's even my peers.

I'm here with one of the ladies that reported to me out of Cape Town.

She's the one who picked me up from the airport.

And we've just had a fantastic few days with her catching up on her journey since I left.

The experiences of us working together, the fact that I was able to challenge her and elevate her in a way that she was not able to do so before, even though she's South African.

I feel like it's our role, once you are in that position, to make sure you're able to elevate others.

I think there's a phrase we've been saying, you know, once you have a seat on the table, pull a chair.

Yes, yes.

And.

And, you know, and bring somebody else along with you.

And for me, that's been very, very important through my journey because that was given to me.

That opportunity was given to me as well.

That's true.

I love that.

Love that phrase.

And I love.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall as you and your.

Your former colleague are enjoying each other's time.

But I really appreciate that responsibility you shared of leaders that when they make it and they break through.

You know, that's great.

Let's celebrate for a minute.

But what are they doing to give forward, so to speak?

All right, so I told you pre show I shared with you that I'm a big fan of People that Deliver.

We've had a variety of folks I think over the years, especially Dominique Zwinkels who joined me here two years ago.

So if you would, for some of our audience members, newer audience members that may have missed those earlier shows, tell us if you would about the organization's mission for People that Deliver.

Okay, so People that Deliver is a coalition that focuses on the professionalization of the health supply chain workforce, predominantly in LMICs low middle income countries.

We look at capacity building efforts, we're involved in advocacy, we offer training opportunities to uplift the health supply chain workforce because we believe with a more upskilled workforce we're able to deliver on our health outcomes in the country and increase the accessibility of health commodities in the different countries.

We've been active in 35 countries so far and we are made up of.

Our coalition is made up of about 29, I think as of last week we're about 29 organizations that are all focused on ensuring that we can be able to elevate the health supply chain professionals within the countries.

Very consequential, very noble mission, life and death we're talking about.

And I love the force multiplier aspect of the role that People that Deliver is really fulfilling.

Especially as you mentioned, new acronym I'm picking up lmic Low and middle income country.

We love our acronyms and global supply chain, don't we?

All right, so your role as step 2.0 coordinator, if I've got that right, with people that deliver.

Tell us about what you do.

So step 2.0 is a strategic training enterprise program that was rolled out by ptd.

So it is our signature leadership program and we call it a change management program that focuses on working with leaders within the supply chain, public supply chain space in different countries to allow them and provide them with the technical skills that they need to be able to receive to operate at an optimal level.

Our premise is working with the private sector.

I believe the private sector has cracked that niche.

They've invested in their supply chain teams.

When you think about some of the organizations that are present here today, they're investing in their talent, they've invested in their operations to ensure that they can be able to operate at an optimal level.

That's not necessarily the case when you look at public health Care systems.

And so step 2.0 leverages our pool of private sector partners that we work with rolling out the training program that equips the folks that go through the program to be able to go back into their operations and identify areas of improvement.

So it's a six month program which involves five to six weeks of virtual training in face face to face work workshop for five days and then another four months where they all they go off and work with their private sector coaches to address a challenge within their area.

We've just currently, I just finished attending the workshop in Kenya last week where we're working with KEMSA and the Ministry of Health and just an interesting opportunity.

You bring in 24 participants or 24 to 30 participants in a room and they're all trying to tackle different areas or different challenges that they're facing within their area.

They are matched with a coach that is then able to bring in their technical skill set from the private sector to help them address the challenges.

I want to go back to kind of the main theme at play, what I heard there, change management.

What's old is new again.

And in this really ever fast moving world where the business velocity is just like it's gone 0 to 60 in the last couple years, or 0 to 100, maybe 1,000, do you feel that it places a greater emphasis where more and more organizations really need to invest in that change management aspect that's so closely tied to leadership?

Do you think it's a bigger gap than what most organizations may.

I think what we've seen is in the public health space space, it is constant.

Change is constant.

You can't get away from it.

You've just come out of COVID We're dealing with issues in the development space with all the executive orders and constraints from a funding perspective, those are all changes that are happening and are going to affect the country's, you know, country's health care, public health care system.

So it's about how you're able to adapt to the changes.

And that starts from not only from a policy perspective, but all the way down to your delivery or distribution of the services that you have to deliver to your population.

And that thought process is important.

So how you manage those changes, how you manage the changes of the implementation of new systems, new tools within the organization to allow you to be able to effectively deliver the services that you're delivering.

I think even just the change in.

So like last week we spent a lot of time talking about, okay, so there's a processes you're changing but even just understanding that there's a patient at the end of it all.

So you may not necessarily have a face, but maybe you do need to put a face so you can understand whatever you're doing.

Managing the distribution of products from the port all the way down to the healthcare facility, there is a face at the end that's reliant on making sure that either it's vaccine get to them at the right efficacy level and on time.

And on time.

Time is a big thing as well.

That's a powerful reset and reminder patient Everything we do, every decision we make all rolls up into life and death decisions for so many folks counting on what we do.

By the way, do you have an opening in your training?

Because I'd love to maybe get a chair, maybe be part of the program.

You accepting so you're coming in as a coach?

Are you coming in as a.

I.

Need all of what you just shared a minute ago.

Okay.

I want to talk about this TED talk you gave.

I bet that was out of all the things you've done in your career.

I bet this was a special moment.

You One of the messages you really dialed in on is this theme of logistics as a force for good.

I love that and I wholeheartedly believe in that.

That's one of the reasons I love world of supply chain so much.

Right.

Nothing happens these days without global supply chain.

All the wonderful people that make that happen.

So I want to ask you about that theme, logistics as a force for good.

What's important for the world to know about that theme?

So interestingly, when I was thinking about it, I watch it every once in a while and somebody reminds me did a TED talk and I cringe.

I'm like oh so young.

But so that was in 2016, nine years ago and still very relevant and still very applicable.

The focus was on food security and the fact that hunger is a logistics problem and not a food problem.

And we are still facing the same issues.

I revisited it a few months, a few years ago during the Ukraine crisis.

We saw what happened.

We're just talking earlier about the canal, the Suez Canal, when the Suez Canal was blocked.

So there's all these other things that are happening that are showing you that it's still a very, very relevant topic.

And then I bring it to the space I'm in right now, which is public health.

And we have commodities available.

We may have funding constraints, but the commodities exist out there.

But we're still facing the same challenges.

So in this whilst my TED talk was focused on the Reverse logistics of getting the food from the farm out to the market and all the challenges that you face in between in the healthcare, we're now seeing the reverse, which is getting it out to the patients at the end.

So logistics is an integral part of our community and our society that we can get away from and that we need to continue investing in to ensure that we're able to face or to tackle a lot of our social problems.

To have the opportunity to marshal all that logistics is, are globally to drive the needle and to help others.

That's got to be a really fulfilling thing to do at this juncture in your career, huh?

Yes.

And it's been a journey.

I mean, I've gone from the point where I was operating at 200 turbo charging, not stopping, just going, going, going and thinking about the money, thinking about the career, thinking about the growth, and to the point where I need to be able to focus on impact.

There's value and something that's very fulfilling about being back home.

I keep going back to that because that's where I am right now.

That's where I am at.

My journey right now is what's important.

Family is important, peace of mind is important while still making an impact.

Right.

So just being able to find that balance.

It's tough to find that balance.

Almost.

It never comes easy, does it?

Yeah.

I mean, it would be nice to be able to take all the trips I want to take.

Sometimes I have to look at my budget and cooking.

So I love traveling.

So apart from farming, my farming sometimes is compromised by my love for travel.

And so when I see and I'm talking to some of my girlfriends, they're like, oh, we're going to Bali.

Do you want to come to Bali?

I would love to.

I got far, however.

So back to that TED Talk, you said.

It was nine years ago.

And I also liked what you said.

When you go back and look at it, although everyone else loves it, you kind of cringe.

I'm kind of.

Same way.

I don't like going back and looking at old stuff I've done, if I'm being honest.

Right.

But give me one piece of advice for other folks out there that haven't done a TED Talk yet, or they haven't done that first big keynote yet, or whatever that big opportunity is for them to communicate a really important message from them to anyone listening, especially in person these days.

What's one tip you'd offer up?

I think you need to be very clear on what your message is.

There are multiple stages out there.

I think stages a word.

Yeah, it is.

Hey, I make up word.

We'll make it a word.

There are multiple forums out there for folks to.

To share their message, and I think you just need to find that forum that is appropriate for the topic you want to share.

It needs to be very clear, needs to be well thought out and authentic.

Folks are looking for authenticity now.

Right.

So just find the right forum for yourself and go for it.

I had a friend approach me a couple of.

In December.

She was doing a keen.

She was doing a speech in Kenya.

And so we've got a platform called Engage, and they bring in, you know, they'll pick a theme and they'll do talks, like, every month, maybe every quarter.

And so she was selected to talk about her back, you know, her history, her life or whatever.

And so she reached out to me as a coach.

So she had a coach, which is like, I need.

Until I get validity from you and you tell me that you think this is good, I'm not getting on that.

Stage, which is a lot of pressure, because she was actually really, really, really, really good.

Yes.

So, yeah, find your forum and make sure you've got a clear message on what you want to share.

That's such a great message, and it's so true, because clarity is indeed a superpower.

And I know we all struggle with different aspects of communication, but when you can really dial it in and make even the simplest or even the most complex messages ring with clarity, that's a gift.

It's also not something you have to be born with.

You can work and develop your capabilities.

We refined my TED Talk with a professional speechwriter.

Now, this is me now, letting in the secret out.

It took us a while to get to the actual title.

Title.

We kind of knew what the substance was going to be, but it took a while.

It took a while to get to that point.

And you need that because folks attend.

Folks don't have that attention span to listen to a long story.

So true.

Nope.

And it's even getting worse now with social media, so it has to be short, succinct, and to the point.

Yeah.

The other.

Other superpower, storytelling.

We'll have to tackle that on the next time you're with us, Esther, as we come down the home stretch here.

I'd love to get.

Especially now that, as you said, you're back home.

I think you're really enjoying being in Kenya, where you grew up, I believe.

Right.

And then you went to college and you had a big career, and then to come back here and Spend time with family and your property and the crops and all gotta be really special.

What's one thing that more of the world needs to better understand about the supply chain ecosystem across this beautiful continent?

It's not a one size fits all.

The continent is complex.

And even with as much as we've seen investments in technology and startups coming up in the continent, which we do have a very rich young population that's always trying out different ideas, those ideas exist.

So for one, those ideas exist.

Right.

And from an investor perspective, come invest in the continent.

The solutions aren't going to come.

We hope they would, but they need to be local solutions and they need to be customized for the local environment.

I feel like there's a.

There's a lot that's gone into play from when you look at looking tackling local issues.

We have a lot of foreign investments and foreign ideas that have also come in.

Some have worked and some haven't.

But I just feel like we have, we should be able to tap into our local talent.

We're in Cape Town.

This is like tech capital for South Africa.

Kenya is the same tech hub.

And you're seeing really good solutions coming up in a lot of the other big cities.

You go into Lagos, you go into Accra, Ghana.

There's lots of opportunities that are coming up and lots of ideas that are coming up from the continent.

So come here, be here, do business here, hire here.

So much opportunity.

Yes, so much opportunity.

Young people that are looking for jobs.

That's right.

And willing to innovate and try new ideas and put themselves out there.

So I want to make sure.

Esther, I really wish we had a couple more hours, but.

Esther in the show with people that deliver.

Let's make sure folks know how to connect with you if they want to follow up with anything you shared here today.

What's the easiest way to do that?

LinkedIn.

Okay.

I'm on LinkedIn often.

I don't post as often as I.

Should, but I'm on LinkedIn.

So yes.

Esther Disho.

Esther Disho.

Okay.

Yes.

It's just that easy.

Find them on LinkedIn.

And we're trying to make it even easier for you to connect with Esther.

Include your LinkedIn profile in the show notes.

That way folks are one click away.

Esther in the show with people that deliver.

Really enjoyed our chat here today.

Look forward to the tour next time I come to the store.

Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, folks.

You bet.

Hopefully you enjoyed this conversation with Esther as much as I have.

Stick around as we continue our coverage from a wonderful conference, the SAPIKS 2025 annual conference, where we're meeting and diving into all sorts of conversations with movers and shakers just like Esther.

Stay tuned.

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