Most of you who know me know that I'm a passionate advocate for the rights of

people with disabilities and have spent much of my career working in that area.

I served as our county's first transportation coordinator,

serving the elderly and people with disabilities right out of college.

Later on in my career was director of operations at the Washington

Metropolitan Area Transit Authority.

for their paratransit service, Metro Access, working for the contractor there.

In 1990, when the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed and signed

into law by President Bush it was a great moment in our movement to make sure

that there was a civil right guaranteed that people with a disability who could

not ride fixed route transit would have the right to a commensurate service.

However, that now has become the very floor and not the

highest level of service.

For instance, having to book a trip one to seven days in advance, or having only curb

to curb service instead of door to door.

I'm Paul Comfort, and on this episode of Transit Unplugged, we're going

to be talking with Eileen Collins Turvey, who is dedicated to making her

paratransit service in Portland, Oregon, for TriMet, the best in the nation,

and I believe she's well on her way.

She just won the APTA Innovation Award for a program she started

there on the Instacart program.

They saw how much it cost to take people to the grocery store,

basically $150 round trip using their traditional paratransit service.

And there were so many limitations on how many bags they could carry, et

cetera, that they came up with this idea of using Instacart as a way to serve

them even better and at a lower cost.

Eileen Collins Turvey is the director of accessible

transportation programs at TriMet.

She's worked there for almost eight years and, is the 2024 APTA Innovation Award

winner for her program with Instacart and on today's podcast, we talk about

the importance of running a paratransit service effectively and efficiently,

which you can do at the same time and making sure you keep the passenger at

the center of everything you do and not allow the rules and regulations which are

important, but not allow them to limit you in the sense of how you're serving them.

. Tune in today to hear one other passionate transit evangelist Eileen

Collins Turvey talk about how she's doing that in her city of Portland, Oregon.

Great to be with my good friend Eileen Collins from Portland TriMet.

She is a director of accessible transportation programs.

we've actually done quite a bit of, quite a few programs together lately, Eileen.

always good to be with you, Paul.

You know, we both spent a lot of our careers promoting best practices and I

think the way you do things there is so innovative and that's why I wanted to

have you on today because you actually just won the APTA Innovation Award.

Hey, so tell us about getting the award and what it was

for and what the program is.

It's your Instacart program.

So.

First, tell us about what it was like getting the award and all that,

get the glittery out, and then we'll talk about how the program works.

Oh, you know, it's, it's so, if I, if I said that I did this work because I, I,

I love the hoopla around it, you know, paratransit doesn't get a lot of that.

That's right, yeah.

You know, it feels so good to be recognized as an agency who works

so hard to do the right things and not because they're sexy or they

get you attention, but because it's what's right for our community.

And as we really evaluate the shifting needs of everyone.

The community of people who experience disability, whether it's congenital

or acquired, that's a community that any of us could be a part of any day.

And getting the chance to come up with something different and a new way

to provide a service to a customer, because for me, It doesn't really

matter if we deliver a customer to a service or a service to a customer.

I want our customers to have the choice to do what's right for them because

that's what I have every day in my life.

I can choose to order my groceries online, sit at home, drink a glass

of wine, order things, and have groceries show up in two hours.

Our customers don't often get that chance because they're more likely

to be unemployed, underemployed, and be below the federal poverty level.

And so having the luxury of a grocery delivery program, they

usually can't afford that.

So It was humbling and exciting to be on that stage and then to get to share

with so many agencies how they could do something similar for their riders.

I think it's better than the trophy.

It's better than the gold medal, except, you know, I still wear that

medal all the time because it's fun.

You really?

You wear it to the office?

Yeah.

My family

thinks it's annoying, but,

Hey, it's like, it's our Olympics, man.

So, you know, you get it.

You could take, I bet you they wear it around at home.

Some when they first get that gold award, I'm

not home.

I don't know what happens.

Yeah,

that's great.

All right.

So tell us about the program itself.

Cause it is very interesting.

And, and I, I wanted to have you on because we never really got to cover

this on the last podcast we did when we did a group podcast that Uber sponsored.

So let's dive in.

Just give us the whole deal.

Sure, so it started with, with COVID actually.

In April of 2020, a month after, you know, we shut down from COVID, we

recognized that our customers didn't feel safe getting out and traveling

in the community because many of them are immune compromised, and, so

they weren't going grocery shopping, and we know that they needed to.

So we started, also, we were looking at having to lay off operators.

First Transit was our contractor at that point.

And we wanted to preserve as many jobs as we could.

We didn't, like everyone, we didn't know how long the pandemic was going to last.

So we started our own grocery delivery program where customers would go

online to their preferred grocer, they would make an order online, call

in just like they would to book a reservation for a trip, but give us the

confirmation number for their order.

Then we would send our operators to go pick up their order

and deliver groceries home.

We had 200 customers who did that.

On a weekly basis.

And when we got to September 2022, we had enough service rebound

that we needed to shift those operators back into ADA service.

And it was a huge letdown for those 200 customers who were really relying

on us to continue keeping them safe.

And what we recognized as a deficit in that program was that there wasn't

an ability for riders who use SNAP or EBT benefits to use those benefits

online when we pick up their groceries.

Because.

There's a requirement in those programs that you're there with your

benefit card to prove that you are the person who's placed that order.

So, that really left out our riders who had the greatest financial need from being

involved in a grocery delivery program.

And I was driving around one day and saw a Safeway delivery truck

that is, you know, one of the big grocery stores in the Portland market.

And they said that they accept EBT benefits.

And I thought, hmm, maybe there's something here.

Maybe if we shift and had a specific provider, then that would enable

us to do grocery delivery, not by our own operators, but partner

to provide a membership somehow.

There, there were, there was a lot of, You know, digging to find a way that we

could do that with low impact to my team.

And what I found was the Instacart Plus program, which provides a way

to order bulk memberships online.

You upload a CSV file.

For Instacart to send memberships directly to your riders, so I didn't

need more staffing to do this, they provided delivery from 55 local retailers.

So groceries, prescriptions, pet food, Costco, the benefit of the Costco piece

is that you don't have to have a Costco membership to get Costco goods delivered.

So we ended up looking at, All of the Instacart retailers, where, where those

locations were, we plotted out how many times our customers traveled to all 55

of those retailers and identified we could experience incredible cost savings.

So $75 one way per trip to take a customer to the grocery store.

$150 in a round trip, right?

But if we provided them a $10 monthly membership for unlimited deliveries,

we would then save $1,500 a month per customer using this program.

And our customers said, I'm sick.

I have one arm that works.

I'm in a mobility device.

I can't carry very many bags.

So our operators help with two bags of groceries when customers travel with us.

Instacart will deliver unlimited groceries.

Cases of pop, 50 pound bags of dog food that our customers

now no longer have to carry.

And when we really looked closely, we saw that pre COVID our customers

would book a trip to the grocery store.

They would plan to be there for about an hour and a half and

then book their return trip home.

But much like transit agencies who couldn't hire mechanics and operators post

COVID, grocery stores couldn't find staff to staff those support positions to help

people visually impaired or have mobility impairments to buy their groceries.

Customers were now planning three and a half or four hours to be

at the grocery store before they booked their return trip home.

So it became an all day process to get groceries, sometimes once

a week, because They can only carry one or two bags themself.

So, we were looking at growing costs for a reduced quality of life for our riders.

So, when we did a survey to say, is this something you would be interested in?

The first day we had 375 riders who said, please send me up.

I need this.

This will save, you know, my quality of life.

It also enables family members.

to order groceries for mom or dad and have them delivered to mom or

dad from anywhere in the country and have a centralized place to do that.

They offer a special customer service line for seniors and people with disabilities

who may not have the technology acumen to be able to navigate the website.

So there were just all of these yeses, all of these, why

wouldn't you do this moments.

Our, our contractor loved it because they were facing Still

shortages with operators.

They were having uncovered service, liquidated damages each month for

trips that they couldn't perform.

So now, with that taken off of their plate, we see a reduction

in trips needed each month with an increase in customer satisfaction

about getting their needs met.

Instacart shops for two or three people at the same time, so it's kind

of like a shared ride on paratransit.

75 percent of Instacart drivers use, electric or hybrid vehicles,

so further reducing our carbon footprint in the local community.

And, there was no downside.

It was a win win for everyone.

The one question I get from people is what about the social determinants of health?

Going out and doing grocery shopping may be the only time

someone gets out in the community.

How do you answer that?

And to that I say, They have a choice.

They can still use our service anytime they want to go to the

grocery store or get a prescription or whatever they want to do.

We have zero turndowns.

We don't evaluate, you know, the merits of a trip.

But the choice is critical.

So if you're not feeling well and you just want to have groceries delivered

so you can stay at home and have, have chicken soup, you still get your

nutritional needs met or your prescription delivered and you don't have to go out.

So, we, we haven't found any downsides yet.

And how many people are now signed up for the program?

So, it's still in pilot phase.

So, we've been in a pilot since last March.

We have 200 riders actively engaged with more on the waiting list each month who

hear about it just through word of mouth.

So, we anticipate that we could have up to half of our eligible riders, so

about 6,000 riders, engaged in the pilot.

And if those 6,000 riders all used Instacart at the same rate that our

current riders are, we'd save $9 million a year in paratransit service costs.

Again, $9 million with an M.

I mean, as you know, paratransit costs have been increasing at a rate, which is

unsustainable for some transit agencies because just the cost of everything

has gone up in the last few years.

So you have found a way to reduce costs.

Absolutely.

And with maybe better service.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And, and there is still, you know, the driver tip component and what

we've, we've, prepared riders for is that they should consider

our, our one way trip is 2.

80 round trip being 5.

60.

Maybe

give that as a tip.

So, use that as a tip instead.

And if you're only paying for that.

You know, once a month or twice a month instead of once a week,

you're still saving money.

And then you can use your fare to go have lunch with a friend or see your

husband in assisted living or for something that you want to do and not

something that you don't need to do.

Wow, Eileen well, congratulations and, and kudos to APTA for recognizing you.

Paul and the team there at APTA do such a wonderful job and you clearly,

deserve this, and I hear that there are a lot of people who want information.

Where can they go to get information about this program from other agencies?

So, I created a QR code that has a getting started guide with all of the surveys that

we did with our riders, the application to sign up, the step by step process of

how we created the Instacart account, how we, how we work with Instacart, and

I can provide that to you so you can share it with, with folks, and they can

download all of those documents and my, my contact information is in that as

well if folks have additional questions.

One of the things I love about your approach to your work, Eileen, is

that you have the same attitude I did.

As you know, I worked for a contractor, MV at the time, at

WMATA, and I wanted us to have the best paratransit system in America.

I remember saying that over and over again to our staff, and what did you say

the other day when we were on that panel?

I'm working to build the best paratransit system in the country in Portland, Oregon.

I love it.

I love that approach.

That's why I wanted to have you on here today.

You're, you have the passion that we need.

I mean, let's talk about that for just a minute about the why, you know, the

Simon Sinek, why, you know, why is it?

For me, I know why, you know, I'm a strong believer, in that, you know, the people

that need it the most, which are people with disabilities, right, they may not

have any, but they might be stuck in a nursing home, or stuck in their own

home, or whatever, without our services, they need us more than other people who

have other options, so I think we have to double and triple our efforts to make

sure we're giving them the best possible service because they need it the most.

That, to me, is what equity is all about and inclusion.

It is about making sure that we give an extra hand to those who need it the most.

Would you agree with me?

You know, I, absolutely yes, and.

I am the mother of a child on the autism spectrum, and so building a world that is

ready for my son, because in many cases my son may not be ready for the world, to

steal a quote from, Jan Campbell, who's the director or the chair of our committee

on accessible transportation, I just, I see the struggles he has gone through in

his life and that other families who have, family members that have similar, you

know, communication access challenges that paratransit isn't just about, providing

service for people with disabilities.

It is such a vital connection for their families who can, when, when

you have reliable, safe, accessible transportation for your family member

who has disabilities that impact their ability to use fixed route, and

you can now go to work And know that they're going to get picked up on time.

They're going to ride safely.

They're going to get to their day support program or a social activity or visit

a friend or have lunch or go to work.

And, and you can live your life.

The liberation that occurs for families, for communities.

is tenfold.

So it's not just about the direct recipient of service.

It has a ripple through our whole community.

And I want my son to have that freedom.

He loves fixed route.

He's memorized every bus line, every schedule.

So he rides fixed route everywhere he goes.

But I want to build a system that I would feel good putting my son on, good putting

my mom on, and, and if I don't feel like my son or my mom is safe or respected or

receiving dignified, equitable, inclusive service, why would I expect anyone else

to put their family member on our system?

So they really are my why every day that I get up and come to work and

want to build something that our whole community can say, we're so proud of this.

This is so good.

For my son, my daughter, my mom, and we're getting there.

You know, we have a 98 percent customer satisfaction rating, a 69 percent or 69

net promoter score, which I like to point out is eight points higher than Apple.

So when we are doing better with people who would refer their friends

and family to our service, then the best customer service related,

you know, company in, in the world.

I feel like we're doing the right things.

Give us some thoughts about the future of paratransit.

You know, I really think that, I may have said this before, but it's really

about breaking outside of the paradigm of 1990s ADA mandate, that that really

needs to be looked at as the floor and not the ceiling, and whether we're

delivering our customer to a service or a service to our customer, looking

at ways For example, we're using Uber.

Our average cost per trip with Uber is $24, but maybe we can

use Uber differently also.

And looking at, we have customers who leave keys, phones, purses,

prescriptions on our buses every day, and our customers are required, again,

to take a $150 round trip, not their cost, but our agency cost, to go to the

lost and found to pick up their item.

But we could use Uber Direct.

to have that item delivered to a customer for $6.

So how can we begin to expand what service to our customers looks like

without thinking of the 1990 model?

And that's what we're trying to do here is really see where are the

pinch points for our customers?

Where do they want us to make different investments?

Same day service is obviously one of those, fare equity is one of those,

that the whole notion that a customer on paratransit who lives with higher daily

costs of living than a person without a disability can then pay up to twice the

cost of fixed route transit to get to a doctor's appointment, it's just really

unconscionable for me, so we're looking, I know there's some agencies that do

zero fare for their paratransit, we're looking at a low income fare for our

paratransit that's consistent with the low income fare we do for fixed route,

so we can begin to buy down some of those costs of daily living for our riders.

And I think that's how we get to better serving our community.

I would also say that really focusing on how accessible we make our fixed

route services underlies all of this.

That if you're not building accessibility into everything you do, from communication

to bus stops and stations and transit centers and vehicles, you're going to

continue driving at paratransit costs.

So the more accessible you can make your fixed route, the less

you need all of these other things.

So we're looking at the full spectrum there.

That's wonderful.

I know my good friend Christian Kent, who used to work with me at

WMATA, that was a big, important for him, importance for him, too.

He was, in charge of not just paratransit, but also of making

the fixed route more accessible.

Because, part of the goal ought to be to allow people with disabilities to be

able to choose whatever option they want.

Exactly.

If they want to be able to get on the same day service and get on the metro, we

want to make it as accessible as possible.

And I think it is beginning with the end in mind and realizing that what we're

here to do is serve our passengers.

and if we think about them as the core of what we're doing and not the

rules and regulations and practices, do you think we get to a better end?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And I think looking at, you know, I, I believe that the model for,

for transit was really built.

So, we're going to start off of how, you know, 50 year old white men

traveling to city centers to go to work.

And when we look at the differing needs of older adults or people with

disabilities, or communities of color or other underrepresented populations,

and then the intersectionality of all of those things, we get to different needs.

We need more room for priority seating if it's a mom with a stroller and two kids

and groceries than we do for, you know, a guy with a backpack or a briefcase.

And so the more we can think about who is using our service and how

they need to be served in order to safely and equitably get from point

A to point B, that's when we win.

And that we win because our customers win.

That's beautiful.

Beautifully said.

Eileen Collins Turvey, congratulations on your APTA

Innovation Award this year, 2024.

Well deserved.

I think you are well on your way to becoming the best

paratransit system in the nation.

Yay!

Thanks so much, Paul.

It's so great to talk with you.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit Unplugged with

our special guest, Eileen Collins Turvey of TriMet and her inspiring

discussion of her innovation and passion for paratransit in Portland.

Now, coming up next week, we head back across the continent to the Constitution

State, where we hear from Ben Limmer, Chief of Public Transportation for the

Connecticut Department of Transportation.

This is a great episode talking about a critical part of the Northeast

Corridor's transportation infrastructure.

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people, and at

Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.