Hi and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction. This is your host Dr. G and our music is written and produced by Mike Sullivan. Today we have a great guest. We have Christine Kim, the founder of My Dog is My Home. Welcome, Christine, and welcome to the Junction.

Thank you so much for having me. It's really nice to be here.

To start, can you let people know where did your story begin and how did it bring you to where you are today?

Sure. Absolutely. so let's see. I guess my story begins with my dog is my home way before my dog is my home was ever formed. Um, I am a social worker by training. So I got my Master's in social work, in more of the macro side of things. And so that means more of the program development and policy end. But when I graduated from school, like I think every good social worker, should have a little bit of direct experience or direct service experience under their belt. and I was very young and inexperienced, to be honest, you know, fresh out of. Graduate school with no real, professional work experience minus my field education. So I did spend a couple of years, doing case management in housing and homeless services. And I'm really grateful for it because I spent some time in, some really innovative programs in Philadelphia and in Los Angeles. And in both of those places I was working with, the People who were experiencing street homelessness that were identified by the city as the most vulnerable individuals. So like they were what you would call like, quote, treatment resistant or housing resistant, and they were also frequent users of emergency systems. So you know, These were like the 50 to 100 people most likely to die out on the streets if something didn't change and they didn't receive some sort of service that stuck with them. Um, so they were in and out of emergency rooms, in and out of jails, in and out of emergency shelters, and for whatever reasons, whatever services they were receiving. Through those traditional or conventional homeless services systems was not working for them. And so they would very often end up back out on the street in very vulnerable conditions. And so in Philadelphia, it was called, I want to say it was like Project 75 or something like that. And then in Los Angeles, it was called Project 50 and it was You know, relatively new model at that time to just do whatever it took to get these people off the streets and into housing and they were using the city was using what is Called a housing first approach harm reduction. Um, so that means that they were not required to be sober or go through any sort of transitional emergency shelter system where they could prove after X amount of time that they were housing ready, and then they could move into their own permanent housing unit. Um, they didn't have to show that they were. working towards getting a full time job or, saving money or anything like that. It was just take you as you are and put you into permanent housing and provide support to you within that housing so that you can address other mental health, substance use, or, you know, health issues that you're experiencing while you were already in your own home. And it was highly controversial at that time. It still is. but it worked. It worked. It really, really worked. And so those 50 to 7500 people that were identified as most vulnerable, most likely to die out on the streets. The vast majority of them did stay in housing successfully. and it's from that mentality. Actually, that my dog is my home grew out of that experience as a social worker in homeless services, because while I was steeped in this practice of removing barriers for people, kind of doing whatever it took for them to get into housing, there seemed to be one rule that just did not, um, that did not make it into this housing first harm reduction mindset. And that was, if you have a pet, okay. We can't help you. It's like, like, we'll remove all the other barriers, right? Like, you don't have to be sober. You don't have to do this. You don't have to do that. But if you have a pet, like, sorry, that's just something we can't manage. And that's just so You know, saying it out loud and saying it now after so many years and looking back on it. I'm like, that's just ridiculous. Like, I can't believe that, um, that that was the mentality back then and still very pervasive to this day, like my dog is my home has accomplished a lot. And I think we've shifted the conversation a lot and brought a lot of awareness, but there's still a ton of work to be done around removing this. No pets allowed barrier. Um, so anyway, re rewinding back to more than 10 years ago, before my dog is my home was started, I was in Los Angeles. Young social worker, um, working in one of these housing first harm reduction programs. And there was this client that I had who, um, was. Newly moved into his housing unit. And in order to even qualify for our program, you have to have been homeless for more than a year. You have to have, you know, you have to be one of these highly vulnerable people. So that that often means you have a lot of other like co occurring conditions, right? Um, so he had newly moved into his unit. And, I was You know, just starting to build a relationship with him and one day he, confides in me that he has a dog, a small white miniature poodle in his own apartment, by the way, you know, it's not like a congregate shelter. It's his own apartment. And I'm like, Hey, I get it. I'm an animal person. I, you know, my, my cats and dog when I was, going through hard times, like they're what pulled me through. we have a no pets allowed rule, but as far as I'm concerned, I didn't see anything. You know, I don't know anything. And so he, he continued to live in his unit and like sneak his dog in and out of the building to take the dog out for walks. But, um, you know, in these programs, there are often two, three, Sides of, two kinds of staff. There's your social services staff, like your social workers, case managers, and then you have your property management staff, which are the folks who are, you know, the landlords, essentially, The property management eventually caught wind that there was a dog in the unit, because you can't keep it a secret forever, unfortunately, like, they did catch him on camera, kind of coming to and from his unit, walking his dog, they, heard some barking one day, and when they found out, they really, they really went in hard, like, unreasonably hard, in my opinion, where they said, You are breaking the rules. You have two options here. You could either stay here and get rid of your dog, or you can get out with your dog. And that was such a hard thing for this person to hear who had waited so, you know, this person had experienced tremendous hardship and loss and trauma and had waited so long to have a place of their own. And in this system that was created to support him. In ending his homelessness and to facilitate recovery, like here we were trying to, separate him from his family member who had helped him cope through all of all of those hardships and me being on the social services side. I really pushed back on the property management, like, to the point where I almost lost my job. Like, I was like, this isn't right. You know, we can't do this and I had to find, I was like looking for solutions, you know, because the, the, the rule in plain black and white was that there were no pets allowed. And so I went looking for solutions. And I'm like, there's gotta be some way to figure this out. Like they either have to bend the rule or like we have, I don't know, you know, there's gotta be something. So eventually I, um, led this client through what is known as the reasonable accommodation process. So, this client did have a disability and his animal obviously, provided him with emotional support. Even though the dog wasn't trained to do anything specific, Just through nature of being his companion animal, that dog provided with him with emotional support and allowed him to fully use and enjoy that dwelling. Um, and so, according to the Fair Housing Act and the rules around reasonable accommodation, we put in the request and the property manager had to be educated around their obligations, under the law to accommodate this person and their animal, despite the no pets lateral. And eventually we won, like this person was able to stay with their dog. And through all of that, like it really opened my own eyes around the challenges of people who are trying to seek any type of service. It doesn't have to be It can be permanent housing. It can be emergency shelter. It can be access to a medical clinic can be mental health services. You know, if you are experiencing homelessness and you have an animal and you, you either have nowhere to put that animal, or you're not willing to separate from them, then your options are just extremely limited in trying to access services. so my dog is my home grew out of that experience and, we really at first really. We just wanted to tell the story, right? Like what, what is happening? Like, what is the gap in services? And why is it there? And what is the impact on people experiencing homelessness with animals? And then also we wanted to push back on this idea that people experiencing homelessness are undeserving of animal companionship, which is still very pervasive today. Um, but that. That initial project that we got off the ground, My Dog is My Home Storytelling Exhibit, it really laid the groundwork for the non profit organization which exists today. So 10 years ago, the My Dog is My Home Storytelling Exhibition launched, it opened in November of 2023, so really 10 years ago, and it opened here in Hollywood, in Los Angeles. And that traveled around for a couple of years and did really well. And then at a certain point we decided we need to take this to the next level. Like the stories are fantastic and they do a lot to educate people and inspire people. But there's always this lingering question after people have been educated, like, okay, now we know what the gap is. What can we do about it? And that's where my dog is my home. The nonprofit really kicked into gear.

I am so glad that the story had a happy ending because I'm listening to your story and I am suffering here thinking oh my god this guy ended up in the street or he died or the dog got given away and I'm like just waiting for you to say something like that so I am so Excited that it ended up well and that it is a good story behind the inspiration behind the mission, right? Like not everything has to be this horrible thing happened. So this is where we're at. That is a, that is an amazing story because yeah, I know that there are a lot of people that abuse the whole emotional support animal thing, but there are so many people that do need their animals. you know, I work, I work all day, I come home, and my cats are here to receive me, right, like, judgment free, they're like, I mean, yes, they're cats, so they're like, feed me, and pet me, and, and be my, be my person, but, there's so much to be said about the unconditional love that the animals give you at the end of the day, and you can talk to them, and you can, even just petting them, you just feel relaxed, and feel, feel at home, And actually, I really love the name of your organization, My Dog Is My Home, because it's kind of like the heart is where the home is, and heart is where my, or home is where the heart is, home is where my dog is, right?

Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, I'm so glad that you mentioned the name and that you like it, because, um, It's a, it's a little bit of a misnomer. Like I love, I love our name too. Um, but there are times when I'm like, geez, maybe we should undergo like a rebranding process or something like that, because the, the name of it makes it sound as though we're, um, like an animal rescue organization, rescue and adopt out dogs or something like that. and people don't understand right off the bat that we are actually. Almost entirely made up of people from the human services side who like really value that human animal bond. Um, but thank you for saying, for the positive feedback. It really makes

me, yeah. I loved it when, you know, I, I met you at the, found house, open house. With, Garrett, who was a guest on my podcast, a few months ago, and I really liked the name back then, because again, it's kind of like wherever my dog is, that's where home is, um, you know, I feel about it with my cats, wherever my cats are, that's where home is. So I, I really love the name. So my, my, my opinion, keep it because it's gold.

Ah, thank you.

Uh, but yeah, one of the, one of the questions that people, you know, I hate people that are judgmental because nobody knows what they would do if they were faced with a situation, right? Like, it's really easy to say somebody should do this or shouldn't do that. When you've not been on their shoes, but I guess the underlying question is, why should a person experiencing homelessness or poverty have a pet?

Well, I think the easy answer is that. The size of your paycheck, or whether or not you have a literal home, like a roof and four walls, that does not determine how much you love your animal, or how devoted you are to their care and their wellness. in fact, we see in studies that people experiencing homelessness Take great care of their animals and oftentimes those animals are really well socialized and there are some studies actually that look at actual body condition of the animals that end up in these like street clinics, um, street vet clinics, their body condition is great. You know, um, I think people sacrifice a great deal in order to care for their animals and they often even feed their animals before they feed themselves. Um, so I think that. Judging somebody immediately based on their housing situation is completely unfair. I also think that Homelessness and housing insecurity is a lot closer to us than we realize or than we are willing to admit. Um, it's a very common experience across all races and genders and age groups. even if you don't experience homelessness, In the traditional way that people think of homelessness like out in the street or in your car, somebody, you know, will experience homelessness or some version of housing insecurity. And if not somebody you directly know, then someone who you know, who they know, you know, like it's not that far removed from you. I think there were some recent articles that had come out, trying to quantify how many people are actually like close, you know, living on the edge of housing insecurity. And, um, the statistic was very alarming. It's like one in four Americans is just a couple of paychecks away from, From homelessness or housing and security like one medical emergency or you know some other some other disaster on that same scale could put you out and those things are really unpredictable like you can't help it if you were hit by a car one day or something to that effect um and so the whole us and them mentality I think is incorrect to begin with and the fact of the matter is, we are all very close to homelessness and so many of us have companion animals whom we love and so putting yourself in the shoes of somebody experiencing homelessness with their companion animal like that could very easily be you or someone you know.

I saw on the on your website that about a discussion of a book called My Dog Always Eats First and I think that that's great because I have met people that literally live by that. that they will feed their dogs, feed their cats, feed their animals before they eat themselves. Sometimes they'll have to go to food banks to take care of themselves, sometimes they'll just have like ramen or cereal or something just to make sure that the animals are taken care of. And that's something that, a lot of people that are in better situations. I don't know that they would consider doing that, you know, like just having their having their animal eat first before before they do, but in in the whole thing about judgment is I even in what what I do, right? My primary job is spaying and neutering. Why? Because I want to decrease the intake of animals to shelters because I don't think that the shelter overcrowding right? Is the problem is the result of a problem. The problem is the increased number of animals. So I think that, you know, with every problem, there's there's always a source and kind of with homelessness. People are thinking of the homelessness and the homeless person as the problem, but that's not the problem. That's the result of the problem, whether it be, you know, a loss of a job or, uh, you said mental health disease or addiction, different problems. That's the actual problem. And then the homelessness is the unfortunate result of it.

Yes. Um, completely. I think what's also very important for people to realize is that, um, and there's a huge proportion of people experiencing homelessness that are made up of women and Children. And the number one cause of homelessness among women and Children is domestic violence. Um, so it's not that somebody has some sort of moral failing and they didn't manage to work hard enough or save enough money or they were irresponsible with their funds. Like it's, um, it's a real social problem that goes much that, you know, where the moral failing kind of mentality is just incorrect. We also know that housing and homelessness. Like, the, the real underlying issue is, beyond domestic violence, is the lack of affordable housing. There's just really not enough affordable housing in order to curb homelessness. And so we actually know what the solution is. It's affordable, supportive housing. And it, it's kind of mind blowing to say that there is such a clear solution for what seems like a complex problem. Um, but that is actually the case. Like we, we know, you know, scholars know and understand what the problem is and that there, and there are large scale models that show that if a community invests in affordable housing and actually housing their homeless folks, like homelessness goes away.

Now, do you see a lot of homeless people that resist being moved into, into housing? Like, are there people that just prefer to just be in the streets?

Um, it's a tricky question to answer. So that so yes, the answer to that is yes. And that's because there are barriers to housing and also significant trust that needs to be built up in communities. And, um, You know, in communities that have suffered a lot of trauma and are and people who are experiencing homelessness because of systems that have, um, that they feel have betrayed them. so to address the barrier question, you know, um, one of those barriers is that no pets allowed rule. And so. Particularly out in California and some of the West Coast states, you know, there are 3 barriers that have been identified, that really stop people from accessing emergency shelter or other types of programs that would, successfully end their homelessness. And those are partners, possessions and pets. So really, among the three top barriers, pets is one of the big ones. Um, so partners is, you know, that that one sort of self explanatory, right? Like, if a system is made for single adults to serve single adults, but somebody has a partner, even if they're not married, um, they still don't want to be separated from who they perceive to be their family member. It's their chosen family, much like pets, right? And so, um, the system needs to accommodate that and figure out how to serve those people together or that family unit together. The possessions issue, like, if they're only allowed, you know, One bag of stuff. and they've been accustomed to carrying around everything that they own, and they don't want to leave their, you know, even if the service provider perceives it to be like dirty garbage, like they don't want to leave that stuff out on the streets, because that's all they own, If that's all that is standing between a person and a safe place to sleep or their own home, take their stuff with them, you know, like, just take their stuff and learn how to deal with it. And then, of course, there's the pets issue, like, if all that's standing between somebody and a place of their own is their pet, like, Take their pet, you know, like when you, when you boil it down and you can really identify what the big barriers are it becomes much clearer what we need to do to remove those, um, those extraneous rules to really end someone's homelessness.

And I, I get really annoyed when people are like, well, I don't want pets, like landlords say, I don't want pets because they're going to destroy the place or whatever. And I think that children are more destructive, even people in general, are more destructive than animals even are. Like, it's rare that you're going to see animals that are just tearing the place just to tear the place up. So I think that there's a huge misconception with landlords about the reasons why they won't accept pets or the ones that accept pets that choose to have only certain breeds or only small dogs and not large dogs. I, I moved into an apartment several years ago. And I had this large Great Dane, who's a couch potato. And the landlord was like, no, Great Danes are dangerous. I was like, are you kidding me? First, no, they're not. But second, you've never met my dog. My dog is not an aggressive dog. My dog is a blood donor. My dog loves everybody. And they were like, no, it's not. It's not acceptable because it's a big dog and we perceive it as a danger. So, I mean, it's very. Breedist of some of these landlords, uh, and I don't know, they're, they're barriers made for no, no solid reason.

Yeah, I agree. And that's why my dog is my home really loves to showcase examples of programs, either whether they be emergency shelters or housing, permanent housing developments that um, that exist to serve people experiencing homelessness. Like, what are the programs that are actually inclusive of pets? Like all different kinds without the weight restriction or the breed restriction and how's it going for them and there are model programs that have been doing this for a really long time, like a decade or longer, and they don't have. The problems that, like, the landlords are making up in their brains about, like, every dog attacking every child and, you know, like, their, their unit being in shambles and things like that, um, and so it's really important work for us to be able to, shine a light on the programs that have taken the risk, the step forward and the risk, honestly, and then to show that, you know, it's not going to end soon. The, the world is not going to end if you start allowing dogs into your program. And in fact, it can really enrich the services that you provide because now you're providing the safe place for a person and their animal and it is trauma informed because you're taking into account like that they need that animal to cope with their trauma. But also I wanted to touch on something that you said in that like. It's breedist really for landlords and housing developers to have rules around like we will accept, you know, small dogs under 35 pounds, but we won't accept this like a gentle giant of a great Dane that just sits on the couch all day. Um, there, there is this growing discussion in animal welfare and specifically in the pet inclusive housing movement, drawing that connection between breed restrictions and racism and, you know. What what that connection is and what it boils down to, like, when you strip away all the academic language and the jargon, um, and all the statistics and numbers, which is all very important. Of course, like, I value the academic discussion, but what it really comes down to is that, low income people of color with certain types of large dogs. Just cannot find places to live, and that is racism.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, again, it's like we, we're taking groups, whether it be groups of people or groups of animals, and we're just judging them as a group instead of judging as individuals, which we all should be judged as individuals. So, when did My Dog is My Home get started, um, and where did you start from?

Yeah, we just celebrated our 10 year anniversary, or I should say we We kicked off our 10 year anniversary celebration, um, because it was at this time in 2013, that our My Dog is My Home storytelling exhibit launched out of, a small museum in Los Angeles called the National Museum of Animals and Society. And that was the beginning of my dog is my home really the storytelling exhibit. and then in 2016, we incorporated as a nonprofit in New York City. And so we have 2 flagship locations. We started in Los Angeles with our storytelling, and then we incorporated as a nonprofit in New York City. And that's. Those are still the two places where we have the most presence and, um, the two places where we are digging our heels in the hardest because those are also the two places that have the largest homeless population. And so we think that if we can transform or see progress in these two systems, which we are, then these are model places for the rest of the country.

California and New York. Are you still only in those places or have you spread out to other locations?

We work wherever we, we are invited. So we're national in scope. Um, we have projects in various locations and have worked in various locations across the United States. and so where we actually met, um, we, we love Ohio. Um, we recently had an open house in Cincinnati, Ohio, and we also spent some time, um, In Toledo several years ago, working closely with Dr Janet Hoyt Gerlock and the University of Toledo, And it's sort of by invitation, if there is a community that is not Los Angeles or New York City that shows that there's some readiness to explore this issue, and there's somebody there who's really interested in having us come and talk with them or to work with them on a project. We will go there. Absolutely. Like, we think it's important to show that, pet friendly policies and homeless services works in many different communities and at many different scales and it's also really, really, it can be customized based on what that community needs because no two communities are alike and they have different needs. and so we are very adaptable and we travel to wherever we are invited to work.

I love it sounds like cultural competence. I love that. I love the term cultural competence I use it whenever I can, because I think that people miss on the fact that you have to be aware of the needs of every individual location and community that you're going to so that you can properly address their needs, right? Not be like, I'm here and I'm going to help you with what I think you need more, you tell me what you need. And then here are the resources.

Right. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I think for the most part, communities hate it when you're like, well, this thing works in, you know, over here and they're like, well, that's great, but we're not over there.

And one of the things when you know when we were talking with Garrett about what found house does, which is an amazing program, but they are kind of like the boots on the ground, they're actually dealing with the individuals and they're providing the housing, and then that's not what you guys do. You guys do more of the support of organizations like that. So how would, how do you work with these groups to provide them the resources that they need? Um, I, I believe that you call it to build their capacity.

Yeah, that's right. I'm really glad you brought that up because there's always some confusion around, the work of My Dog is My Home, and even though it seems pretty straightforward when we say, like, we exist to increase access to shelter and housing for people experiencing homelessness with pets, so then we always have to further, further elaborate that we are not The direct service providers, we are not directly operating the shelter or the housing program for the people, and having it be pet friendly. We are working to transform that system. So we're working with the existing. Providers of emergency shelter and housing to transition them to or to help them help support them in adopting those pet friendly policies. so it's, it, it takes the shape of a lot of different, in a lot of different ways. so one thing is just plain and pure education. just letting them know that. There are pet friendly programs that exist already and that have been doing this for a long time, goes a really long way. you'd be surprised at how many programs just think it's absolutely impossible. And then when they find out that there are programs that have been doing this, they're like, Oh, okay, so it's not impossible, that's great. Um, and then being able to share, um, we're not at a point. Right now where we can say we have best practices in co sheltering people and animals together because there just isn't enough like program evaluation and research, but there are these like emerging and promising practices and we can share with them what those are and, um, even put them in touch with the providers that have been doing it for a long time. Um, kind of. Give them the national view of what we've seen in different places or in different programs so that they can pick and choose what works for them. Um, so that's on the education side. There's another piece of it. That is about plugging them into the network. Um, so, and of course, all of these types of programs overlap with each other. You know, they're never a clear cleanly in their own silos. But we hold these we hold these events called open houses. and that's really about showcasing a model and then bringing the community together to learn from that host site. So, for example, in Cincinnati, we partnered with a really wonderful nonprofit called found house, and they operate a day shelter and, um, a brand new permanent supportive housing site that houses about I'm going to say about 30 families or so. and both their day shelter and their permanent supportive housing, building is completely pet inclusive. And so what we did with found house. was, we, we opened up their facility and we invited other providers of shelter and permanent housing that are in that local area to come in and like learn from their model and, and be like, Hey, like, not only is it possible, but like you can see day to day how it operates and you can learn from the people who operate it day to day, like what it actually takes and what the real challenges are versus like the. The fake ones that are made up in people's minds, you know, um, and then with that network, you know, people are able to share with each other what's going on. Like, are they, are they implementing co sheltering? Are they taking the next steps? What problems are they running into? Also, another nice thing about that network is that we're bringing together sort of the animal folks and the human services folks and that partnership is really necessary for co sheltering to be successful. so that. That network and those partnerships kind of form organically when we bring those those partners together or those organizations together at our open houses. So there's the network piece. And then there's the more like nitty gritty technical assistance piece. And that's where we provide that. That one to one support more, more intensively to a single organization. So if the education piece, if the network piece, if those things are not enough for a program to feel like they are ready to take the next step, my dog is my home. can be there to support them more intensively through like customized training. We can even weigh in on a policy that they're trying to develop. We can also try to, help build out their, their resource library so that in the event that an animal comes in and does need a veterinary checkup or a rabies, you know, shot or something, um, we can identify like, oh, this partner would be good for that. Like let's, let's build that relationship and have you two connect. Um, so those are. Some of the ways in which my dog is my home builds capacity.

A few weeks ago. I, I spoke with Dr. Michael Blackwell and we were talking about the importance of one health and we were discussing about the, the importance of the veterinarian and being part of family practice medicine, right? So you have the pediatrician, you have the, family doctor for the adults, and then you have the veterinarian for the animals because everybody is part of a family. And I really like that that approach. And he was saying that the the problem is that there is a need for systems that we are lacking systems and that we need to find these systems. And I saw that that's part of what you are proposing as well is just developing systems. So what what systems do you feel that we are lacking and, and that we are we need to be moving towards?

Yeah, I mean much like Dr. Blackwell, I think housing is very much applicable to that One Health model or like we can think of it in the same One Health way. I know for. For public health folks, or maybe I'm painting to with a too broad of a brush, but like I hear people talk about one health a lot in terms of like large scale, you know, like like zoonotic diseases and things that travel between people and animals in the environment. And I think if you apply it on like a really micro scale to the individual, um, this fits very much within the One Health framework. So we're talking about an individual person and their animal and the home that they live in or like the lack of a home. Um, so still, it's still, you know, Person's health, animal health, environmental health, person, animal, environment. Um, and that system very much needs to change. So I'm talking about the homeless services system. And encouraging that system to understand animals as a part of the family unit. and that people and animals need to stay together. Um, and if we're talking about person centered, holistic services that are trauma informed, like A hundred percent, they should be thinking about animals as a part of that system.

Yeah, he mentioned about if a social worker is not thinking about the animal part of that family, they're not doing their job, right? Like, basically, you know, you're, you're trying to help this family with whatever issues they have, but you are neglecting the, the animal part of the family. Then, you know, that perhaps there's more education needed in the, in the system to be able to, to approach the, the true entire health needs of the, of the family as a unit.

Yeah, I agree. I think, there's much more education now around animals, animals and social work, broadly speaking. I think it has not been a part of traditional social work education, and now we're seeing, Definitely a broadening of that understanding, but still there are only a handful of schools that really teach that or even have like a couple of electives that address animals and social work. And so some of the big programs are like the University of Tennessee, where Dr. Blackwell is, of course, right? So the University of Tennessee's veterinary social work program is amazing. Um, University of Denver's School of Social Work, their, their human animal interaction program is also amazing. And then there are a couple of other places that really have taken up that, that mantle and run with it. Um, and it's a very exciting time to be a social worker that is interested in also like seeing animals as a part of that system, because there's more education than ever before about, you know, that human animal bond.

And there's so much room to grow. And it like, it's almost like. Sky's the limit right now because there, there's so much, so many opportunities. I work with a lot of rural communities. and I do work with some groups that primarily help homeless people or, individuals that are, house insecure and it's. You know, I look at them with, yes, we're bringing you spay and neuter services, or we're bringing you, you know, a rabies vaccine or whatever, but in the grand scheme of things, am I helping you, like, yes, I'm helping you not have more puppies, but you're still going to have issues feeding your pet or treating your pet for fleas, which your pet has fleas, you have fleas, you know, like that zoonotic component and, and just the, um, Yeah. The concern of people with an injured sick animal that then that's going to cause depression and anxiety. And we have to start thinking even people that don't like animals. They need to understand the importance of the animals for that person. So you may not like dogs and that's fine. You don't have to have a dog, but you need to understand the relationship and how that helps. Physical health. I know that there was research recently about how owning an animal decreases the risk of heart disease, heart attacks, diabetes, obesity, and then from a mental health perspective. It's so good for people that are isolated from society, but yet they have an animal to, to give them a reason to wake up, you know, like a reason to get something done. Perhaps that reason to get a job, that reason to try to find something as opposed to just giving up because it's just for themselves. Right. You also work with advocacy work. And I know that you are very involved with the PUPPs Act. So can you describe what the PUPPs Act is?

Yes, the PUP Act is, it's an acronym, it start, it stands for Providing for Unhoused People with Pets Act, so P U P P Act, and it was introduced for the second time this summer, June of 2023 by Congress, Congressman Crow, out of Colorado and, three other, members of, of Congress, Adam Schiff, Nancy Mace and Brian Fitzpatrick. So when it was introduced, it was, uh, and it still is, of course, a bipartisan bill. and what it does in essence is it creates a 5 million dollar fund per fiscal year from 2024 through 2028, to be administered by the USDA in consultation with housing and urban development. So on the federal level, this pool of money would be available to, um, providers of emergency shelter and permanent supportive housing to expand their animal accommodations. So it's a fund that is supporting homeless services programs, shelters and housing, to have, you know, animal components to their program by either, acquiring or rehabbing or retrofitting property for animal housing, to pay for the veterinary or training needs for animals, or to pay for the training of staff and volunteers, in order for them to run these programs that co shelter or co house people experiencing homelessness with their pets. And that would be. a huge, like a huge development in this movement to co shelter and co house people and animals together. It's modeled off of a really successful program and legislation in the state of California. it's called the pet assistance and support program, or that's what it turned into once the law was passed. and the pet assistance and support program was, Very similarly, a fund that was, administered by the state's department of, housing and community development. And it did the same thing, except it was only for emergency shelters. It paid for emergency shelters to be able to have like this animal component to their, to their homelessness programs, to their emergency shelter programs. And Over two cycles of funding, they distributed the state distributed 15 million worth of funds to various emergency shelters across the state in order to remove that barrier that no pets allowed barrier because now, you know, we're pulling out of the stops here. We need to remove this barrier. We need to get people off the street. And it was hugely successful. There was there were way more applicants for that money. Then there was actually money to go around. So like clearly the homeless services programs understood the value of this and like wanted that because if their goal is to end homelessness and to remove barriers so that people can access their programs, they're like, oh yeah, we, we need that. Um, so now this is on the federal level, not just for one state, but on the federal level. And we're really, really hopeful, that it passes because our strategy is to have this be a part of the farm bill and the farm bill only comes up every so many years for renegotiation. and so we are really trying to seize the opportunity now, to have this pass, and to have this be a part of the farm bill package.

I think it's, it's cool that it's bipartisan, because, this is one of those things, animal welfare, especially companion animal welfare, seems to transcend political barriers. So it doesn't matter which side you're on. you may agree and disagree with, with different things as far as ownership, but in the end, everybody feels that people's animals need to be taken care of.

Yeah, I agree. I, I know, um, people have a lot of feelings about Congress right now, it seems like a hot mess, but I think there's still some hope to be had. I agree with you that companion animal welfare is still one of those things that, people can reach across the aisle and, like, agree to work on something.

So, one of the things that also you mentioned on the, on your site is that you guys do, like, research. So, what kind of research do you, uh, do you work with?

Yeah, um, this was something that was really important to my dog is my home when we first launched because we were always getting asked, like, how big is this problem really, you know, like, there was a scope question, because. Like, we had to do a lot of convincing of programs that this was a legitimate issue, and we didn't have a great answer for them at that point, like, counting the number of people experiencing homelessness, period, is like a very difficult research question, and then understanding from that, Who among people experiencing homelessness has a companion animal is also like, that's very difficult. but among the existing tools that we have to measure homelessness We are advocating for those research tools or those data collection tools to include questions about animal companions and we've been successful in a couple of different places. There was a study that came out a couple of years ago in Los Angeles that, used what, what is known as the point in time count. It's an annual count of people experiencing homelessness and every community has to do it. That's a, that's a federally mandated thing that every community has to do. so in Los Angeles, if there's this, and in any community, but you know, the study took place in Los Angeles. If there's this annual count of people experiencing homelessness already, like, why not just add a question? Like, do you have a pet, you know, to that to that existing survey? And so they did. And, um, the results from that are really interesting. They took an average over three years, of asking that question. And I think the average came out to about 12 percent of people experiencing street homelessness did have a pet, and. And so it's not, it's also interesting that it's like, not the huge numbers that people are thinking, you know, so I think one fear that programs have is that if they start allowing clients to bring in their dogs and cats and other companion animals, like it's just going to be an utter zoo in their complete chaos, right? And it's like, no, you know, we're talking about like 12 percent of people here. It's not going to be. What you think it is. and then there are also questions around. So outside of counting and like understanding how many people experiencing homelessness have companion animals. we want to really dig into research on What programs and policies and standard operating procedures exist and what works well, and, what is the impact or outcomes of those programs and policies and SOP's? Um, so there was some research that was done, in partnership between My Dog is My Home and the Animals in Society Institute years ago that looked at four different programs that are inclusive of people and their animals in shelter. And we looked at, you know, like, what are the practices, and just documenting them. That was really the goal of the research. And then After having documented some of those, practices and procedures, we hope that we can do more of that, but we also hope to go beyond that where we can start evaluating those programs and understand like what is the impact and what's working well. We just really want to push the conversation to the point where we have best practices that we can promote, which we don't have right now.

Yeah, I like that because I'm a, I'm a numbers nerd, like I love research. And I think that it's really important when you're starting to know what your start point is and then be able to, to demonstrate how your program is changing things. So that especially if you're going to have people that are going to be investing into it. And, supporting they can see, okay, this is where, where my grants are going like this is how we are changing. And then that also inspires other locations to be able to do similar things or, you know, they, they may think they may be in a rut and feel like there's nothing I can do about it. And then they hear or they see the research and they're like, Hey, maybe there is something that we can do.

Yep, exactly. That's that's the goal.

I think that your program is amazing. And I really appreciate you taking the time to be here and tell us about it. The story that started it all is super inspiring. And I'm hoping that if anybody is listening that works in the human health field, and is interested in this kind of work, that they take the plunge and do it because going to that open house and seeing the people that live there, and seeing how appreciative they are, and how something so small changes their lives. I mean, that's, that's it. I mean, you can't, you can't get more job, how you say, like, loving what you do better than that. Is there anything, anything that we have forgotten to let people know or anything else that you want to share?

Yes, um, so My Dog is My Home has an annual conference and our next conference is March of 2024. we just released the dates. Registration is not open yet, but we do have to save the date out. So please save the date for March 26th through March 28th of 2024. the early bird registration is going to open in December, but if you're interested at all in this topic and you want to learn more, and even if you are like a complete. Newcomer to the topic, like we have tons of content that reaches people across the different experience levels and also different roles. one of the things that we really pride ourselves in is we just bring people together no matter what profession they are, no matter what title they hold at the organizations that they work at. this is something that we can all get behind. And it's super important that like we have multidisciplinary partnerships. And so. check it out. We would love to see people join us for the conference. and then also if you're a listener in Ohio, we are going back to Ohio. Um, sometimes summer of 2024. So, um, earlier, I had mentioned that we just had our 10 year anniversary celebration kickoff in New York City, and it's a it's a full year of celebration. So we kicked off in New York City will be in L. A. In February, but We'll be in Cincinnati again in the summer of 24 doing another open house and then our 10 year anniversary celebration back to back. So hopefully I get to meet some cool listeners of yours that are based in Ohio.

Fantastic. I'm looking forward to it. I'll be there. And that is a conference online or is it in person?

Oh, it's online. The conference is online and very accessible. and there are also tons of scholarships available in case we, you know, we just accessibility. That's like a key concept for my dog is my home. and so we don't want cost to stand in the way of anyone who's interested in learning. so scholarships, it's online. And then also, you know, if you have a reasonable accommodation request, we would be happy to accommodate that as well.

So for any anybody that's listening that is interested in getting information about your program. What's your website, and what's the best way to, to learn more about how you help, groups get these things set up?

Yeah, well, our website is www. mydogismyhome. org. And if you run a program, in homeless services or in animal welfare, and you're interested in, like, exploring taking the next step or supporting a co sheltering program or anything like that, you can always reach me at christine@mydogismyhome.org.

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and sharing all this information. And again, for the work that you're doing, because it is so important, to just help our community and the dogs that live in it. So, um, so keep up the great work. And thank you for being here and I will see you next year. And for everybody that is listening, thank you for listening and thank you for caring.

Well, thank you so much for having me.