Speaker: 00:00:02

Hi, I'm Leela Ainge, psychologist, researcher, and someone who's been thinking a lot

lately about what it feels

00:00:14,796 --> 00:00:16,336

Hi, I'm Leela Ainge.

00:00:16,336 --> 00:00:24,769

I'm a psychologist, researcher, and somebody who's been thinking a lot lately about what

really makes life feel good.

00:00:25,269 --> 00:00:35,832

Welcome back to Psychologically Speaking, a podcast all about human behavior bringing

together fascinating research, insights, and real life experiences.

00:00:36,153 --> 00:00:40,546

This season, we're exploring joy and...

00:00:40,546 --> 00:00:46,190

how joy actually moves through our lives, how it shifts us and what it makes us do.

00:00:47,171 --> 00:00:58,820

Today, we're going to explore the difference between happiness and joy and the relief of

joyful activities, but also the weight of joy.

00:00:59,161 --> 00:01:10,369

And we'll think about the way in which psychologists explain joy, some of the limitations

in the way that we look at it and how philosophy fills some of those gaps.

00:01:10,478 --> 00:01:19,778

And I also want to introduce a paper that's just been published on autistic joy and how

that brings a different way of thinking about deep enjoyment.

00:01:21,318 --> 00:01:26,738

But mostly in psychology, joy is a really positive emotion.

00:01:26,738 --> 00:01:33,398

It's most often studied with the idea of this positive psychology.

00:01:33,418 --> 00:01:37,294

So in psychology, this is a historical divide.

00:01:37,294 --> 00:01:43,474

in the study of what is wrong with humans or how we pathologize people into conditions.

00:01:43,794 --> 00:01:54,934

And then you had the emergence of this idea of positive psychology, which was this idea

that we should concentrate on looking at the idea or the view of human flourishing.

00:01:54,934 --> 00:01:56,594

And wouldn't that be interesting?

00:01:56,594 --> 00:01:59,654

You know, what makes us thrive as humans?

00:02:00,574 --> 00:02:07,365

So joy is often thought of or seen or studied as a state of high arousal.

00:02:07,534 --> 00:02:10,614

And so it's what we would call positive valence.

00:02:10,614 --> 00:02:22,114

So like a burst of delight when you see a friendly face in a crowd or perhaps when you

experience your favourite music or you've been at a gig.

00:02:23,254 --> 00:02:26,834

But joy is really distinguished from happiness.

00:02:27,014 --> 00:02:33,914

So joy is seen as this quite fleeting thing and almost very intense.

00:02:33,914 --> 00:02:36,794

It can be unexplainable, a phenomenon.

00:02:36,833 --> 00:02:41,116

whereas happiness we know is more stable and long term.

00:02:41,116 --> 00:02:47,560

In fact, we know that happiness is more stable and it's measured at a population level.

00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:55,566

So things like happiness and life satisfaction are surprisingly stable over our lifetime

or our life course.

00:02:55,566 --> 00:03:01,089

It makes some really good indicators so good that they're tracked by the UK government.

00:03:01,782 --> 00:03:13,390

and they look at this along with other factors such as GDP, so you know what our country

makes, sells and spends, we're also interested in how happy are we and how satisfied.

00:03:13,670 --> 00:03:28,235

We know that year on year trends in happiness, you know they don't shift a lot but we will

expect to see some shifts with huge kind of national changes.

00:03:28,235 --> 00:03:37,708

The last one on record that you can see, you can see this on the UKGov website, is the

happiness index and what happened over the pandemic years.

00:03:37,809 --> 00:03:46,432

So we know that obviously um happiness took a dip during COVID-19 and then it partially

recovered afterwards.

00:03:46,432 --> 00:03:51,453

But we haven't actually seen a return to pre-pandemic highs.

00:03:51,494 --> 00:03:58,076

Up until the pandemic, average satisfaction and happiness was increasing.

00:03:58,773 --> 00:04:06,266

So we know that these types of measures, don't just catch a mood, they're reflecting

broader conditions.

00:04:06,266 --> 00:04:07,606

What else is going on?

00:04:07,606 --> 00:04:17,560

And I want you to think about that because we're going to come back to this idea of joy as

something that is studied or thought about in isolation of other factors.

00:04:20,449 --> 00:04:33,052

So when we think in psychology about joy, we tend to theorise and there's a couple of

really interesting theories that we can think about in terms of joy.

00:04:33,052 --> 00:04:36,263

One of them, I think I've mentioned before, was this broaden and build theory.

00:04:36,263 --> 00:04:44,695

So this is the idea that joy is a bit of an enabler because it expands our attention and

builds long term resources.

00:04:44,695 --> 00:04:50,086

So the more that we broaden our horizons, the more joy we invite into our life.

00:04:50,464 --> 00:04:53,966

You've got flow theory, which is Csikszentmihal.

00:04:54,267 --> 00:04:56,828

He wrote the famous book on flow.

00:04:56,829 --> 00:05:04,174

And really what we learned from that is that flow can emerge from this deep immersion,

this flow state.

00:05:04,174 --> 00:05:12,660

And actually, the way he wrote about this is that that's something we would want to

achieve as an individual.

00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:18,538

So his research really looked at the idea that

00:05:18,538 --> 00:05:23,390

you get flow in that intersection where challenge and skill are balanced out.

00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:31,573

So you don't want something that's too easy, you don't want something that's too

difficult, but when there's just enough challenge and you've got just enough skill in that

00:05:31,573 --> 00:05:36,414

process, then that's where joy will happen or flow will happen.

00:05:36,935 --> 00:05:40,696

You've also got self-determination theory.

00:05:40,876 --> 00:05:45,418

And this one is interesting.

00:05:45,418 --> 00:05:48,160

It kind of thinks about how joy arises when our

00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,341

basic needs for three things are met.

00:05:51,341 --> 00:05:56,203

So this is autonomy, competence and relatedness.

00:05:56,203 --> 00:06:04,406

That relatedness, you we can think about that in terms of our relationships with people,

our social needs, competence.

00:06:04,406 --> 00:06:13,350

So where Csikszentmihal was talking about flow theory and skill, competence, have we got

skill in what we want to do?

00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:17,151

And autonomy, if we got some say in how we do what we do.

00:06:18,591 --> 00:06:26,413

And all of these theories are really useful to think about emotion and wellbeing and

motivation essentially.

00:06:26,413 --> 00:06:37,506

You know, they can help us to understand those really practical ways in which we can

increase joy through things like play and purpose and social connection with other

00:06:37,506 --> 00:06:38,736

peoples.

00:06:39,116 --> 00:06:48,083

But there's a limitation of these psychological theories and they tend to be quite

individualistic.

00:06:48,083 --> 00:06:52,606

and they're not looked at in terms of context.

00:06:52,606 --> 00:07:01,191

So they're not always capturing things like our embodied emotions, sensory or

environmental factors.

00:07:01,552 --> 00:07:15,481

In fact, you could say that they're often kind of assuming this universal or this

emotional experience that is standard across most people and that might not fit

00:07:15,481 --> 00:07:17,532

neurodivergent people.

00:07:18,227 --> 00:07:35,818

was really interested to read a new paper out this month by a researcher at the University

of Birmingham and this is Elliot Wassle and they've researched the experiences of autistic

00:07:35,818 --> 00:07:47,625

joy and the reason this landed on my emails really is because the researchers used a

community to recruit their participants so we know that

00:07:47,625 --> 00:07:53,298

these people are already part of an affirming community for neurodivergence.

00:07:53,398 --> 00:08:05,844

But the study really flips, I suppose, the script or these ideas about how we talk about

autism, because instead of focusing on struggle, this research really saying, well, what

00:08:05,844 --> 00:08:08,806

brings autistic people joy?

00:08:08,806 --> 00:08:12,428

And the research themselves is an autistic academic.

00:08:12,428 --> 00:08:16,810

So they've centred this research from that autistic voice.

00:08:17,278 --> 00:08:21,150

They wanted to challenge the medical narratives.

00:08:21,150 --> 00:08:25,522

So I talked about this historical view of psychology, of pathologizing.

00:08:25,622 --> 00:08:35,707

And a lot of the studies around autism are very much deficit or loss or difficulty.

00:08:36,148 --> 00:08:42,531

So he looked at 86 autistic adults, mostly women, non-binary participants.

00:08:42,531 --> 00:08:46,033

It was autistic-led in a participatory study.

00:08:46,748 --> 00:08:52,922

what he's really saying there is that, you know, this is centred on autistic voices rather

than observing from the outside.

00:08:52,922 --> 00:09:00,447

And we look at these things as markers of um good, open study really in science.

00:09:00,988 --> 00:09:09,353

So the key question was, you know, what does bring autistic people joy and what gets in

the way of joy as well?

00:09:10,374 --> 00:09:15,668

And the reason that the researcher wanted to look at joy was because from a base

00:09:15,668 --> 00:09:22,302

I suppose an academic and public narratives, know, autistic joy is often ignored.

00:09:22,302 --> 00:09:28,285

It's possibly seen as something quirky or weird or a regulation strategy.

00:09:28,525 --> 00:09:33,088

And he's saying that, you know, it's powerful, it's underexplored.

00:09:33,088 --> 00:09:39,281

So he looks at philosophical ideas to show that joy isn't just a fleeting moment.

00:09:39,281 --> 00:09:40,171

And isn't that interesting?

00:09:40,171 --> 00:09:43,454

Because what we said right at the beginning of the podcast was that

00:09:43,454 --> 00:09:55,038

Joy is often seen as a fleeting moment, something that happens as a bit of a spontaneous

or a phenomenal thing or in a state of flow, and it's not as stable as happiness.

00:09:55,838 --> 00:10:05,251

So this research isn't saying how do we fix autism, it's like, well, what if we created

environments where autistic people can thrive?

00:10:07,527 --> 00:10:22,489

I think one of the really joyful things about the research is that it shows just how joy

happens and the themes that emerge were things like sensory pleasure, so know colours and

00:10:22,489 --> 00:10:36,159

music and swinging movements, the deep absorption which I think you may have seen this

written as monotropism, so it's thought of as uh almost like a medical term of a focused

00:10:36,159 --> 00:10:37,530

flow state.

00:10:38,323 --> 00:10:51,338

also how repetition and ritual bring comfort and delight and I think about this a lot

actually I think perhaps in previous generations people had ritual in their life possibly

00:10:51,338 --> 00:11:01,792

more than we have ritual now as adults and if you think about self-determination theory it

talks about our need for autonomy and autonomy would say that we want to move away from

00:11:01,792 --> 00:11:04,743

you know regulation or oh

00:11:04,743 --> 00:11:08,435

ritual, we might want to go our own path and do our own thing.

00:11:08,435 --> 00:11:14,137

What we're saying here is that structure and ritual actually quite joyful as well.

00:11:14,418 --> 00:11:23,042

So the research is also showing that things like special interests, like trains, animals,

crafts, you know, these are all sources of joy.

00:11:23,082 --> 00:11:24,703

But the right conditions matter.

00:11:24,703 --> 00:11:32,407

So the research says that quiet spaces, supportive relationships and freedom from social

pressure.

00:11:33,468 --> 00:11:34,328

The

100

00:11:34,414 --> 00:11:43,588

real barriers, so what prevents joy, that wasn't described by the participants as autism.

101

00:11:43,588 --> 00:11:50,951

So autism in itself wasn't stifling joy but it's other people's lack of acceptance.

102

00:11:52,111 --> 00:12:01,755

I suppose as a deeper insight the study is showing that this isn't in spite of being

autistic, that people can experience joy.

103

00:12:01,917 --> 00:12:05,920

and I'm going to come back to that idea of in spite of later on.

104

00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:17,028

But it supports this neurodiversity paradigm, the idea that there's natural variation in

our human experience and it's not something to be cured.

105

00:12:17,709 --> 00:12:27,066

So an act of almost resistance is radical to be who you are in a world that expects people

to conform.

106

00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:36,286

And being visibly joyful through stimming and deep focus and immersion in niche passions

can be really liberating.

107

00:12:36,286 --> 00:12:44,731

But it also comes with that warning of it might not be accepted in every single uh kind of

circumstance.

108

00:12:47,334 --> 00:12:54,548

So I think the reason I wanted to talk about this in terms of joy today is one, it's just

a fantastic paper.

109

00:12:54,548 --> 00:13:05,823

But if you're autistic or neurodivergent or just curious about what it looks like to

flourish, I suppose on the margins, this paper is asking us to rethink how we think about

110

00:13:05,823 --> 00:13:08,835

joy, how it's experienced, how it's expressed.

111

00:13:09,275 --> 00:13:16,775

And a reminder that it's not just a personal thing, it's those political um and kind of

surrounding

112

00:13:16,775 --> 00:13:23,675

environmental things that make it happen or stop it from, you know, that would stop joy.

113

00:13:25,252 --> 00:13:32,167

One of the theories then that the researcher is using is a philosophical one called

established theory.

114

00:13:32,167 --> 00:13:34,948

And I thought I'd explain this a little bit, because I had to go and look it up.

115

00:13:34,948 --> 00:13:36,790

And I really like it.

116

00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:45,305

I like the way that it uses this theory to understand the world, not as fixed categories.

117

00:13:45,305 --> 00:13:54,652

I think anybody who, say if you've got children or you are neurodivergent or you're around

neurodivergent people, this idea of labeling.

118

00:13:54,652 --> 00:13:58,594

being both a curse and a blessing sometimes.

119

00:13:58,594 --> 00:14:03,258

You need labels in order to get through systems and to get support you need.

120

00:14:03,258 --> 00:14:16,126

Labels can be really affirming and identity rich, but labels can also be pathologising and

they can be unhelpful and they can be used to, as a social scientist, we say to, you know,

121

00:14:16,126 --> 00:14:21,290

an in-group and an out-group which can have both positive and negative outcomes.

122

00:14:21,370 --> 00:14:23,111

But this idea of

123

00:14:23,451 --> 00:14:34,631

assemblage theory is saying that actually if we move away from fixed categories and

understanding how complex systems are made up of many interacting parts and I think that's

124

00:14:34,631 --> 00:14:45,420

such a human way to think about how we can coexist in multiple identities, this

intersectionality if you like.

125

00:14:47,953 --> 00:14:57,046

So the research is really saying, isn't it, when you merge, when all of your parts and

your environment come together in the moment, that is assemblage.

126

00:14:57,046 --> 00:15:04,029

And so that includes things like your sensory experiences, your body, your brain, the

music you're listening to.

127

00:15:04,029 --> 00:15:09,981

Could be the cat on your lap, memories, the room you're in, the weather, trauma.

128

00:15:09,981 --> 00:15:13,993

It could even be your favourite mug that you have your tea in.

129

00:15:13,993 --> 00:15:17,734

But all of these things create this kind of temporary

130

00:15:17,762 --> 00:15:27,884

situation um and one philosopher, Deleuze, called that a territory of becoming which I

thought was really interesting.

131

00:15:35,697 --> 00:15:44,534

I think the key things to take from this paper are is this person in the right environment

doing what they love surrounded by people who get them.

132

00:15:44,735 --> 00:15:55,565

And I would say that's possibly at the heart of my research questions as a social

scientist and a social psychologist is how do people flourish in the right environment and

133

00:15:55,565 --> 00:15:57,406

what's that right environment.

134

00:15:59,483 --> 00:16:08,365

But let's go back to Maslow for a little bit, because his hierarchy needs is, I suppose,

one of those enduring theories.

135

00:16:08,365 --> 00:16:14,207

It's been replaced by self-determination theory largely in psychological circles.

136

00:16:14,207 --> 00:16:19,898

this triangle, and if you've never seen Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it's a triangle.

137

00:16:19,898 --> 00:16:25,882

the bottom, you've got basic needs like safety, food, water, for example.

138

00:16:25,882 --> 00:16:34,584

And then as you move up the triangle, the hierarchy, you can get to this uh kind of area

of self actualization.

139

00:16:34,584 --> 00:16:40,385

quite a few people have hypothesized that some people may never get there, to this self

actualization.

140

00:16:42,246 --> 00:16:54,749

But it's a really interesting view because I want to challenge this idea that joy is a

pinnacle of success or that transcendence, if you like, that Maslow was talking about.

141

00:16:54,949 --> 00:17:00,009

and that joy can coexist with emotional weight too.

142

00:17:00,209 --> 00:17:10,389

So I'm going to talk, well, I'm going to do something different now and turn to two

portraits in the National Portrait Gallery to explain this idea of emotional weight.

143

00:17:11,269 --> 00:17:24,289

If you want to see these images for yourself, then head to www.leelaange.com, so that's

L-E-I-L-A-A-I-N-G-E.co.uk forward slash joy.

144

00:17:24,442 --> 00:17:31,604

I've uploaded the images that I've taken and full links to the artists and their websites

for you to enjoy.

145

00:17:31,604 --> 00:17:43,026

Both of these portraits are on exhibition and they're free to view at the National

Portrait Gallery in London and it is a child-friendly place.

146

00:17:44,027 --> 00:17:54,489

So last weekend I was at the Oasis concert and in itself it was one of the most joyful

experiences I have had in the last two decades.

147

00:17:54,628 --> 00:18:02,781

A number of things made it really joyful, being with my husband, singing with 90,000 other

people.

148

00:18:03,241 --> 00:18:12,585

We know that music and singing in psychology is rich for joy, but Monday morning came and

the joy had left the building.

149

00:18:12,605 --> 00:18:15,866

And after a very good breakfast, we had time to kill.

150

00:18:15,866 --> 00:18:23,869

So we decided we'd go to the other end of the cultural spectrum and from Wembley Stadium

and go to an art gallery.

151

00:18:24,249 --> 00:18:30,770

So we went to the National Portrait Gallery and I'm going to describe the image that first

caught my attention.

152

00:18:30,891 --> 00:18:34,771

So this is by an artist called Yuvatni Davis.

153

00:18:35,472 --> 00:18:41,043

And in this picture you have the image of the artist.

154

00:18:41,043 --> 00:18:52,496

It's a self-portrait and she's sat on a brown sofa and she sat to one side and she looks

visibly exhausted.

155

00:18:53,448 --> 00:19:05,675

She's in this pink kind of two-piece, I don't know, kind of loungewear suit with a red

design on it, a red kind of um pattern.

156

00:19:06,275 --> 00:19:11,238

And you can see the weight of tiredness on this individual.

157

00:19:11,338 --> 00:19:22,789

But what makes this so striking is in the background, you've got this child who's in

movement and they are what looks like running across the back of the sofa.

158

00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:30,089

And want you to imagine a small child running across the back of a sofa and squashing down

those back sofa cushions.

159

00:19:30,369 --> 00:19:39,349

And I mean, I was drawn to this because, I don't know, it's the summer holidays and I feel

like I'm constantly moving around my own house and re-fluffing up pillows and putting

160

00:19:39,349 --> 00:19:40,969

things back in place.

161

00:19:40,969 --> 00:19:43,929

But also it was just such a relatable image.

162

00:19:43,929 --> 00:19:51,489

It's something I remember doing myself as a child, pulling things off the sofa and playing

on a sofa.

163

00:19:51,693 --> 00:19:52,704

and having that joy.

164

00:19:52,704 --> 00:20:02,148

And so you've got this image, you've got this self-portrait of what we presume is the

mother and the child, mother exhausted, child playing, you know, joyfully in the

165

00:20:02,148 --> 00:20:03,219

background.

166

00:20:03,219 --> 00:20:05,480

That's how I've interpreted it.

167

00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:11,033

There was a nostalgic element for this for me too, because it was a brown sofa.

168

00:20:11,033 --> 00:20:20,113

There was a brown sofa in my childhood and I could remember the texture of this like kind

of velour, velvety type of sofa.

169

00:20:20,533 --> 00:20:21,570

And

170

00:20:21,570 --> 00:20:26,443

just the memory of, you know, messing around and playing.

171

00:20:26,443 --> 00:20:31,165

And this child's in this bright red kind of party dress.

172

00:20:31,806 --> 00:20:40,781

But that wasn't the thing that I suppose brought me the most joy about this picture,

because when I got closer, so as I walked into the gallery, I could see this in the middle

173

00:20:40,781 --> 00:20:41,971

of the room.

174

00:20:42,172 --> 00:20:49,944

And as I walked closer to read the caption, the title of this piece by Jovanni Davis is

called Inset Day.

175

00:20:49,944 --> 00:20:52,426

And I thought, well, isn't that just amazing?

176

00:20:52,426 --> 00:20:58,230

You know, I've been talking this year about the fact that adults need their own inset day.

177

00:20:58,230 --> 00:21:08,897

And here's a picture that describes, I suppose, the weight and the tension and the joy of

being a parent of, you know, holding space for that child to have that joyful experience

178

00:21:08,897 --> 00:21:16,441

while you're sat there looking utterly exhausted and, you know, like you've got the weight

of the world on your face.

179

00:21:16,842 --> 00:21:18,547

And there was something just really

180

00:21:18,547 --> 00:21:31,295

interesting about that piece that made me think about the weight of joy and the idea that

you know joy isn't it coexists around tiredness and an exhaustion.

181

00:21:34,241 --> 00:21:44,298

The second piece of art then was a portrait by the actor, of the actor sorry, Kush Jumbo.

182

00:21:44,298 --> 00:21:57,306

And you probably know her, she's most well known in the UK I think for playing Lady

Macbeth alongside David Tennant in the theatre.

183

00:21:57,627 --> 00:22:01,550

And she was also in a brilliant TV series called The Good Fight.

184

00:22:01,550 --> 00:22:02,590

So.

185

00:22:02,656 --> 00:22:12,989

The Good Fight was described, it's an American TV series, but it was described as a

controlled explosion of fury at the Trump era by um the journalist Lucy Mangan.

186

00:22:12,989 --> 00:22:15,890

And it also stars Christine Borancki.

187

00:22:15,890 --> 00:22:19,991

So if you're interested in that kind of thing, it's very satire.

188

00:22:19,991 --> 00:22:22,632

I would go and give that a watch.

189

00:22:22,632 --> 00:22:29,133

But this is by an artist, this portrait of Cush Jumbo is by Zoe Buchman.

190

00:22:29,434 --> 00:22:31,494

And what you see,

191

00:22:31,631 --> 00:22:50,986

is a piece of vintage textile and it looked to me to be like an old I suppose cushion with

a scalloped edge and then on top of this the artist has embroidered in line embroidery

192

00:22:50,986 --> 00:22:54,769

Cush Jumbo's portrait.

193

00:22:54,949 --> 00:23:01,384

The really interesting thing is you know there are threads hanging and I thought that was

quite interesting the idea that

194

00:23:01,803 --> 00:23:11,185

you know, it was undone, that it was not quite finished, if you like, or that these lines

were still, you know, ready to be sewn in.

195

00:23:11,185 --> 00:23:15,566

And I thought that was quite interesting from a portrait perspective.

196

00:23:16,306 --> 00:23:29,270

But then when you read the caption next to this piece and the title of it is called, I'm

gonna have look at my notes now, why don't you just tell me how you want me to be, baby?

197

00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:31,234

And I'll live like...

198

00:23:31,234 --> 00:23:38,934

water around you and so Zoe is saying that this is part of a series of portraits.

199

00:23:38,934 --> 00:23:56,094

She's saying that this series of portraits were really celebrating the idea of women's

capacity to go through experiences such as miscarriage and violence and you know all of

200

00:23:56,094 --> 00:23:59,162

these you know terrible things in life.

201

00:23:59,314 --> 00:24:02,955

and yet to still choose joy.

202

00:24:03,436 --> 00:24:08,638

And I thought that was really interesting, this idea of, you know, choice in joy.

203

00:24:08,638 --> 00:24:10,658

And it is a choice, isn't it?

204

00:24:11,539 --> 00:24:22,063

And I was thinking about that then um in contrast to the other piece and how, you know,

parenting is tough and it's hard, but it's simultaneously joyful.

205

00:24:22,063 --> 00:24:27,529

know, parenthood is one of those unique experiences that can make you feel like you've

been in a car crash whilst...

206

00:24:27,529 --> 00:24:32,710

marvelling at the awe and wonder of Tiny Toes in the next moment.

207

00:24:33,111 --> 00:24:39,572

And I thought it was really interesting that Zoe Buckman was kind of saying that these

portraits were showing that.

208

00:24:40,593 --> 00:24:52,596

When I went home I looked up the work of Yvadni Davis because I really really enjoyed that

piece and frustratingly they didn't have the postcard of it in the shops, I've ordered

209

00:24:52,596 --> 00:24:57,517

that online, but Yvadni's actually done a couple of other pieces.

210

00:24:57,737 --> 00:25:13,088

and I'll link to these on my website but she's done a series of oil paintings on reclaimed

or you know vintage wallpaper and then you've got Zoe Bookman who's also using vintage

211

00:25:13,088 --> 00:25:26,017

textile so it was interesting the two pieces that really kind of got my attention were

about joy but they're both using old textiles or thinking about

212

00:25:26,217 --> 00:25:30,482

both artists are using old textiles in their work which is quite interesting.

213

00:25:32,895 --> 00:25:46,005

So today in today's podcast, we've explored joy, not just as a fleeting emotional high,

but something that's really textured and meaningful and, you know, it's sometimes heavy.

214

00:25:46,005 --> 00:26:00,340

We looked at how psychology frames joy through theories like broaden and build and flow,

how theories such as Maslow's hierarchy of needs might cut fall a bit short in

215

00:26:00,340 --> 00:26:02,281

understanding how joy really

216

00:26:02,281 --> 00:26:04,701

co-exists in our environment.

217

00:26:04,822 --> 00:26:15,724

We looked at the emerging philosophical views and research in neurodivergent areas of joy

being very relational and situational.

218

00:26:15,905 --> 00:26:18,145

We looked at that assemblage theory.

219

00:26:18,945 --> 00:26:28,728

And I like the idea that, you know, that new research challenges the idea that joy only

comes from people once people are fixed, that our

220

00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:35,693

basic needs, of these like kind of layers of life need to be perfectly in place to

experience joy.

221

00:26:35,693 --> 00:26:37,326

You know, who gets to decide that?

222

00:26:37,326 --> 00:26:41,894

We get to choose joy, I think is what I'm taking from Zoe Bookman's work here.

223

00:26:43,604 --> 00:26:54,747

So in reflecting on those two artworks from the National Portrait Gallery, I thought about

the emotional weight of joy and how it co-exists with tiredness, grief, duty, know,

224

00:26:54,747 --> 00:26:55,967

history.

225

00:26:56,488 --> 00:26:58,908

It weaves through everything.

226

00:26:59,208 --> 00:27:07,490

So the coaching prompt or reflection for today, then, if you're still with me, is where in

your life is joy?

227

00:27:07,611 --> 00:27:12,712

So today's coaching prompt or reflection is where in life is

228

00:27:12,712 --> 00:27:15,313

joy showing up with weight?

229

00:27:15,534 --> 00:27:24,398

Is there a moment, a memory or an experience where joy coexists with responsibility,

exhaustion or contradiction?

230

00:27:24,858 --> 00:27:36,484

What happens then if you stop waiting for joy to feel light and start thinking about the

version of joy that is with you with weight?

231

00:27:37,524 --> 00:27:43,668

And you might want to journal this or think about it or simply notice it in your everyday

life.

232

00:27:43,989 --> 00:27:54,916

know, for me, it looks a little bit like coming out to the pavilion and having a coffee

when I've got a to-do list, you know, longer than my shopping list.

233

00:27:55,577 --> 00:28:01,371

Or the joy of being with your kid, even when they're moaning about being bored, you know.

234

00:28:01,371 --> 00:28:06,496

And it might even be the joy of doing a piece of work well.

235

00:28:06,496 --> 00:28:11,116

even when there's nobody there to say well done or you know you've not got an audience.

236

00:28:14,641 --> 00:28:19,163

Thank you for listening to this episode of Psychologically Speaking.

237

00:28:19,163 --> 00:28:23,582

I'm Leela Ainge, your host, and we have explored joy today.

238

00:28:23,582 --> 00:28:35,149

We've explored joy, the weight of joy, joy of art, and we've also looked at traditional

narratives of joy as being something that we should aim to achieve at the end of a

239

00:28:35,149 --> 00:28:35,959

destination.

240

00:28:35,959 --> 00:28:40,611

And I'm saying you can choose joy at every part of your journey.