Welcome to Midlife with Brooke. I am your host, Brooke Oniki. I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ, a wife, mother, grandma, and a certified life coach. On this podcast, we talk about all things mothering, health and emotional wellbeing. I share practical tools and examples from my life and from the lives of my clients to help you navigate this new season of midlife. It can feel tricky and confusing and a little bit out of our comfort zone as our children grow up and they don't really need us in the same way. These concepts and principles have changed my life and I've watched them change the lives of my clients, and I hope that they can be helpful if there are things that you wanna change in your life. So let's get started. Hello and welcome to the podcast. Yesterday was my anniversary. My husband Tom and I have been married for 30 years. So we spent the day together and we thought it would be fun for the podcast and mostly for documentation for our children to record this story of our courtship. And so today we have. My husband Tom, and also my daughter Kaitlyn who's going to interview us and we'll talk about how we met. And so if that's interesting to you, then you can tune in. If that's something that you don't really care about, then I'll see you next week. But I'm gonna turn the time over to Kaitlyn

I'm so thrilled to be the one doing this interview since I am the one who struggles the most to remember the details of this great, great story. And recently we had my friends over eat dinner at my house and My parents told them the story and they were raving about it for weeks later. And I was like, wow, I really gotta make sure I have this story down then so I can impress my future friends. So let's get started. Where did you two lovely people meet?

So a guy I knew got some friends together and a girl that Brooke knew, got some friends together, and we all met at her apartment and then went to the Utah State Fair together.

Ew. what was going down at the fair? Were you around each other much?

as I recall, we did talk some, we walked around together and just talked about stuff. We had a mutual acquaintance and I remember her talking about her. Class. She was teaching elementary school and she had a really hard class and it just seemed like she was cute and thought about things just the right way and was funny. So.

I also remember talking to you and thinking you were super nice. also, while we were at the fair, I had a roommate, Robin, who had these cool, sterling silver rings and I really, really liked 'em. And while we were going through the vendor area, there was a guy selling rings that looked like these rings that Robin had, and they were $10 each. And I just was like, Ugh. I don't know if I should spend $20 on these rings. But I really liked them and I thought, I think I would like 'em for a really long time. And so I bought these rings the day that we. Met at the fair and I've actually worn him the rest of my life, which is kind of fun that I have these rings that I've worn all of this time.

Mom, what was striking you about Dad? Do you remember talking to him?

I do. The mutual acquaintance that we had was through a person that I had dated previously, and so it felt a little weird talking about. Because he told me he was in medical informatics, and I had never heard of that before, except for through this guy that I dated. His dad also worked in medical informatics, so I asked him if he knew this person, and he was kind of surprised that I would know that person. so I probably remembered that more that that was kind of an awkward part of the conversation. So I didn't leave thinking, oh, I hope that we go on a date or anything. Although I did think he was really nice and he was friendly and fun, and I liked talking to him.

But nothing more. So then how did you get in touch again?

So

the next

move looked her up. I don't remember how I got her number.

Found it in the phone book.

Yeah. And called her and she said, oh, I didn't think I'd made a connection with anyone that night. Me. So that was a real encouraging. But anyway, I asked her out and we went and did a couple of things. I had just finished, my master's at the time and I was going to go back home to California and look for a job there and stay with my mom We did a couple of things, two or three things before I went back to California.

That's my question is based on her response, how did you even do a couple things?

Yeah. I don't know. I was just undaunted, just She didn't mean

that.

Yeah, she doesn't know what

she wants.

She accepted,

It's true. And every time I went I was like, this is so fun. We had such a great time together. I loved that. He was funny and he was also churchy. I felt like that was a hard thing to come by. In my late twenties, it seemed like there were some guys that were funny, but they were a little too edgy for me. And then the ones that were churchy didn't always seem like they were very much fun. And so to find a combination of someone who was. Funny and also churchy. I was like, oh, he is a super good combination of that, which I really liked. But my drawback was that we were the same size. It seemed like our wrists were the same size, like we were the same height. We, were just all the same size and I was tall growing up. I always felt like I was the biggest girl, and so the idea of dating someone that was the same size I am was just like a no go. Like that's a deal breaker for me. It

wasn't even a consideration.

Yeah,

you weren't even thinking of it.

Yeah, exactly. Like he's great, but we're the same size, so I will not be interested in him basically. And I would go home and tell my roommate, oh, we had so much fun together. It's just such a shame that we're the same size. 'cause I was just not considering that as even a possibility. But we did have fun. So when he asked me out, I would say yes. 'cause it was super fun to go with him.

Interesting. So when did it get to the point where having fun wasn't gonna be enough to keep hanging out on dates?

Well, it never, it never really got to that point. so I went to California for a while. Oh

yeah.

And I would call her on the phone, on the landline in my parents' bedroom and. I would mail her letters. And, then I, accepted a job back in Salt Lake but before I went, I was going to visit some friends in England. uh, former roommate of mine lived there with his wife. so I was going to go visit them and I told mom. She said, oh, I'm the one that should be going to England, because she went on her mission there. And so I just said, well, come on along, and. Did you say it right there? Okay. I will. Or,

I think I did say that so I was teaching year round school, so I had February off. So when he was going, I wasn't gonna be in school, so it was perfect timing. And so I said, well, I, I think I should come with you. And as he was sending me these letters, they weren't just letters. He was sending me these cards and he wrote all these cute, fun stories and like multiple choice questions. I was studying to take the GRE and so he would do these like analogy things that. You, you had analogy questions in the GRE. So he was like, this is to, this is, this is to this. And they would always be about things that we had talked about and I would show 'em to my roommate and we would go, this guy is amazing. It's just such a shame that he's not taller 'cause he's so his

rich.

Cool. He is so great. He's

a word for his wrist.

So when he said he wanted to go to England, I thought, oh, I know we would have a fun time together. And I also knew that he would be respectful. I. Didn't think he would say like, let's share the price of a room and split the, you know, like I just knew that he would be appropriate in every way and I knew I would have fun with him 'cause we had a good time when we were together. So when he said, you should come with me, I thought, I think I will. If I liked him, I might have been more nervous to go with him, but because I didn't feel like I liked him, I thought it was very appropriate to go traveling with someone that I was just friends with. And so I looked to see how much it would cost to fly, and it was really cheap because it was February and so I just got a ticket and I, he was going for two weeks and I only came for one week, but I said, I'm gonna come and meet you there. And we'd only gone on like three dates, but then we'd corresponded while he was in California. So I felt like I knew him. Well enough. I don't know. That's funny. Now to think we just went on a international trip together,

me and my hinge date boys that I go on three dates with going to Japan together.

Nothing. But because I don't like him, because I detest him, it'll be okay.

Exactly. That is something that would concern me though, is that he had asked you on dates though, so you know that he was interested in you, even if he'd be respectful to you, like. That didn't make you feel weird, like, but this could be sending the wrong signal that I'm wanting to go on an international trip with him, or like he could be pining after me and that would be weird.

Yeah. Yeah. I probably should have thought about that.

Could have been food for thought moving on,

but I just wanted to go to England

Wow. So how was England? Any sparks

fine

or No, it

was good. It was fun. we stayed with my friends and at some point in the trip, mom and my friend were alone and talking. And they started talking about me and my friend told me later during the trip, but like a day or two later, she said, yeah, I was talking to Brooke and, and she said, he's just a great guy. There's just no. Whatever the word

was, chance,

magic or chemistry, fireworks or some word like that. And she told me, because I guess she thought that would be encouraging to me that a girl like mom would think I was great, but actually it was just kind more of the same. Yeah. Yeah. People think I'm great. People think they're the kind of person. They would introduce to their parents, but just no, no fireworks. So just one more, one more of those.

But I did have lots of fun on the trip and I remember thinking near the end, we need to get back home. 'cause I could start liking him and I didn't wanna start liking him. Oh. 'cause I liked someone at all. So I was like, we gotta get back home 'cause I might start liking him and I don't wanna like someone that's the same size as me. So it was really fun. We had a great time.

That's great. So then Dad, you came back and you were at that point working in Salt Lake?

Yeah, so I came back. Worked in Salt Lake. Worked in Salt Lake and, and uh, there was one night we went out to dinner. And I said something like, so you know, one reason I'm glad to be back is 'cause you are here. And she is like, okay, let's, let's finish our dinner. And so,

oh, I think you called me and told me the next day, I think we had dinner. And then you called the next day and said one thing I was gonna tell you last night, but I didn't. One of the reasons, oh, I thought I

did it dinner.

One of the reasons. So, and then I said, oh, I gotta go kind of thing. Like, oh, thanks for telling me I gotta go.

Yeah. So it just went on like that for a while. So in between times she had a boyfriend, we would just hang out, do things, and then she'd. Start dating somebody and we wouldn't see each other for a while, and then she'd break his heart and so we'd start doing stuff again. And so, so

what was your mentality then, dad? Like why were you even wanting to still hang out with her?

I don't know. It was up and down like probably sometimes I was like, yeah, that's fine. We'll just do stuff. but it was kind of hard to just not. Get my hopes up because she made it clear that we were just friends. If, our knees would ever happen to touch, she would pull her leg away and, and so it was just always clear that she no interest that way. But I don't know, maybe I had a fool's hope that maybe something could change sometime or I don't know. Or

they would come out with a surgical procedure.

Yeah. Where your

body

could, that leg extension would finally Yeah. Be

the wrist builder

clinically approved. Yeah.

Oh, that's so funny. And I did think you were great. I really, really liked you. And sometimes I would pray and say, definitely Father, if you would like me to like Tom, will you help me have those kinds of feelings for him? Because he really is great. But if you don't have that romantic component, it seems like you can't really. Get married to someone even though we'd never touched each other. So I guess I'd never tried to have a romantic component. I had just decided we didn't have one. So eventually I decided to move away, so I moved to North Carolina. I was teaching school in Salt Lake and it seemed like people were very concerned about me getting married. All my students set me up on dates. Their moms and dads wanted to set me up on dates, and I was kind of tired of living in a place that seems so. Obsessed with people getting married. I had some cousins that lived in North Carolina that were in graduate school, and I'd been out there to visit several times. And so I thought, I'm gonna move somewhere where nobody cares if you ever get married. And I had a friend who taught school with me who was from North Carolina. And she had moved to Utah when she had joined the church 'cause she thought she'd be able to find someone here and she also hadn't gotten married. So we decided we were gonna move together. I started teaching school at this private school there. She taught in Chapel Hill at a public school, and we just left Utah behind. And when I left, he just seemed less interested in even being friends. He sent me a store bought birthday card for my birthday in November, and he had never ever given me a store bought card. And so it just felt like kind of a. A pronouncement of his. I'm done with you kind feeling. And I was really, and to be honest, because I think I had a little, uh, overinflated view of how he felt about me. like I couldn't do anything that would make him not like me. I knew that he liked me. and I don't think that was very sensitive. I see now, but I, I guess I thought he just always would like me and so when he sent me the store-bought card, I was like, huh, fine.

Oh, so you're not my little puppy dog that's gonna be waiting for me. Always, dad, be so honest without had to be an intentional move, but where you're trying to actually make a big. Statement?

Well, I don't remember. It was a long time ago, but I think, I did feel like it was my chance to just kind of, because like I say, it was hard to just keep going and not get my hopes up.

Yeah.

Right. And so it was, this was kind of a chance to, okay, okay. I can move on.

Yeah.

So I don't know that I deliberately thought I'm gonna. Send her a store-bought card. That'll show her.

Mm-hmm. And she'll be talking about this for years,

but I did call him sometimes, and I remember my job was really hard. It was in a private school where we had two certified teachers in every classroom. So the teacher that I was working with, I really liked her, but she had been there for six. Years. And so she knew what was going on. And so in some ways I felt like I was her like teacher's aide even though I had had my own classroom for three years. And so it was a really rough time for me professionally. And I remember thinking, I wonder what Tom would think about this, or just wanting to talk to him about things. 'cause I did really value the way he thought about things and His humor and we always had a fun time when we were talking and so I often felt like, I wonder what Tom would think about this. during that first school year at Christmas, when I went home, he and I were in Desiree book together, which is funny. I don't know why I guess we were just at the mall shopping and I looked at him we're him and I. What'd you say?

We're book lovers?

Yes, we're book lovers.

When aren't you in the bookstore.

Okay. And I looked at him and I had the thought, he's taller than me. I thought, that's weird. Why am I thinking that? Like, why does that even matter? But that was the first time that I was like, huh, he's taller than me. And I remember when I was in North Carolina thinking I should have. invested in dating him because it seemed like in North Carolina there weren't so many people in our young single adult ward and there were lots of people dating each other. And I thought, oh, when there aren't so many people to choose from, it seems like people Invest in someone. they pick someone that they think they're interested in and they work at it. Whereas when we were in Salt Lake, it felt like, well, if I choose someone, then what about, what if somebody else comes along that you like better? Mm-hmm. And so it seems sometimes hard for people to actually focus in on one person and invest in creating a relationship. So as I saw more of that happening in North Carolina, I started thinking, Hmm. Maybe I made a mistake So then the next summer. my roommate that had gone with me, she got married to someone that she met in the singles ward in North Carolina, but her wedding was in Salt Lake. And so I came back for the wedding and then after the reception, dad came and picked me up. He didn't really know Sam very well, so he didn't come to any of that, but he came and picked me up and we went to Leeza's Pizza and ate dinner, and we had this great conversation. And then we got in the car and we talked and talked and talked some more. And I remember my head, I just felt like screaming, like, why didn't I try to date him? that was so silly of me. And now I live clear across the country. And so I was thinking, what could I say? 'cause I had this idea, if I told him, maybe he would say, yes, let's, maybe we should or, but then it seemed weird 'cause now I'm clear across the country anyway, so I tried to explain to him, I have some regrets not dating you when I lived here. And he said, well. I get it. There's a girl in Seattle. Everyone thinks that I shouldn't like her and I just never really did. So I totally understand. And I was like, no, that's not what I want you to say. I want you to say, oh, well maybe we could somehow, I don't know. So I was sad when he was like, yeah, I get it. Don't worry about it, kind of thing.

this part of the story isn't really clear because I did say that. Yeah, don't worry about it, but I must have had enough hope that I talked to her later and said, well, we should go on a trip. So, I don't know, maybe it was still that, glimmer of hope, some hope against Hope That something could happen. And so I, I talked to her and we talked about where we might go, and we decided on Seattle because those friends that I had visited in England some years before now lived in Seattle. And so we decided to go visit them.

So I was coming back to Utah at the end of the summer, and so we went on this trip to Seattle together. But before that happened, I was talking to my roommate who's known all about this all along the one that I shared the cards with, right? We have been good friends since we were in college, and somehow she and I came up with this idea that I would propose this plan with Tom, where I would say, What if this trip to Seattle was a romantic experiment? Let's just pretend that we like each other. 'cause we'd known each other for almost three years at this point. And so to start holding hands or anything like that would just be so. Weird, especially 'cause I had been so clear about not touching him or anything. And so I just said, what if we just act like we like each other on this trip and see how it goes, and then at the end we'll talk about it. And so there must have been some conversations. I, I don't know. How we got from like, oh, I wish I would've dated you to, Hey, what do you think? but he was game. He was game for it. And so. We went on this trip and we started holding hands and he put his arm around me and we had some really sweet conversations and he was just as cute as he could be, and it was really fun. And darling and I tried everything I knew how to do to get him to kiss me, and he did not kiss me. And so I enjoyed everything that happened, but. I was a little like, um, I think we should kiss

if this is, if this is a romantic experiment, I usually kiss my boyfriends. I think that's completely fair, dad, just so you know, because that feels like, thank

you.

A way, a way more of a step than just like, this is a little experiment, you know?

Yeah.

So

I get you. Yeah. We didn't define, we didn't define that part of the experiment,

the experimental methods you'd be using.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, in my defense, I was thinking, oh, this is going pretty well because it was a far cry from what had been going on for the last three years, you know? And, and also just, I know this may be shocking to you, but I wasn't ever like really good with girls. Um. And so, yeah. And you weren't comfortable. Guess that's all I'll say about that, but, but yeah, so I thought it went pretty well.

Mm-hmm.

But in her head, she was going, oh brother, this is just,

child's play.

We went to Victoria, which you know, is so beautiful. Our gardens, it was just, and of course we love Brad and Paige and so we had so much fun at their house. And so that was And what were

they thinking also,

I think they were thinking, you guys are just thinking way too much about this. Or I don't know. I think maybe they thought, yeah, this is not gonna work. I don't know what they thought. I'll ask them.

So, so we decided to talk about it on the way home. So we're on the airplane and. He says like, I think it went really well. And I was like, well,

what world are you living in? What color is the sky in your world?

No, I just was like, I thought it was nice, but I was hoping that you would kiss me. 'cause I feel like I tried to give you every clue that I wanted you to kiss me and I didn't wanna kiss him. like I didn't wanna be the one to initiate it.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think that was surprising to him. And so when we got in the car to go home, his friend came to pick us up and we just weren't talking at all. And I'm sure she was like, oh, it must have gone terribly. So we got back to his apartment and I was gonna go to a party with some of my school friends. Yeah, but we talked for a little while. Do you remember what we talked about?

No, I was just reeling.

I don't really remember what we talked about except at the end we decided to have a prayer and I just asked heavenly father, like if, if we are supposed to be. Together or if we should date each other, will you help us? We are open to that idea, but you'll need to help us. And there was just a really lovely spirit in the room and, and I remember feeling very hopeful that God was gonna help us if we would be open to whatever he would want for us. And it was really, it was a significant moment for me. Do you remember anything about that, Tom?

Yeah, I remember the prayer and I remember just the nice feeling there. I don't remember what we talked about though.

So then I left and went to this party and I just talked to my friends all about like, tell me about your marriage and how essential is the romantic part of it? I just wanted to know. so I was asking everyone Do you marry someone who you're just good friends with? Anyway, so I was really trying to get a lot of information about that, and Kelleen, my friend, who's helped me with the romantic experiment and everything, she was supposed to pick me up from the party a few hours later,

But then after she left, I went over to My friends, my old roommate was married to my cousin. And so I went to their house and I was telling them about all this, and they were like, oh, Tom, you've just gotta step up to the plate. You've gotta take a full swing and other such sports analogies and. I left and I called Kelleen and told her, I'm going to pick her up from that party. You don't have to. And so I went and picked her up at this party. I walk into the backyard where the party's going on and. I wish I had a camera now 'cause I, of course didn't know what had been happening there and what she'd been talking about. But I'll bet, There was a hushed silence that fell over the crowd when I walked in and all eyes must have been turned to us like, oh, this is the guy, this is the guy she's talking about. And so I picked her up and we drove away and I said, I really like you and I'm just going to keep hanging around until you tell me to get lost,

which was super bold. Yeah, I was super impressed with that. I was like, that takes a lot of guts to call Kelleen and tell her. I'm gonna go pick her up and then we get in the car. So I know he has something he wants to say, and then he sort of professes like, I will pursue you until you tell me to go away. And I was like. Wow. Anyway, that was very impressive to me and I thought maybe we'd kiss then, but we did not.

This is his full swing. Oh, not kiss though.

But then a few days later, I went away to a conference. So I went to a teaching conference in Illinois, and while I was there, I called these friends that were in Seattle and said, what do you think we should do? And they were like, you guys either need to start dating or quit talking about it, like you're way overthinking this. So just make a choice. And move forward. And so when I got back to Salt Lake before I was going back to Tia, North Carolina, I invited him to come up to my sister's house for my mom and dad's anniversary. And so he came up there and he was talking to my family and they were laughing with him. And it was a nice evening. And I went into the kitchen and my sister-in-law came in and she's like, why aren't you dating him? He is great. And I remember just having this thought like He is great. I just felt it to my bones. And after that little party we went back to his apartment and we watched Sleepless in Seattle. And while we were watching the movie, he kissed me.

Woo. Good job. Yeah. I doubt that. Must have been. Nervy. But you did it.

Yeah.

Were you plotting it before?

Um, I don't think so. Yeah. I'm just a spontaneous guy.

So

then

it just hadn't felt right. It hadn't felt like the right time yet, though.

So then a couple days later, he came to see me at my mom and dad's house, and we kissed again. And then, anyway, we kissed a little more before I left for North Carolina. But the thing that was amazing is when I got back to North Carolina, I was just thinking about him all the time, and I was feeling all fluttery and I was like, no. Way. How could that change? Like that is so crazy. So we were talking on the phone a lot and I was just thinking, this is so funny. I really like him and I knew him so well that it was like. I might love him, like I already love him, but now that I feel like I can kiss him, like I, I'm gonna be in love. I think I love him. Yeah. So we were talking on the phone one night and I told him that I, I think I'm in love with you. And he said, I gotta go. And I was mortified. I was so embarrassed and I just went to the CD store and bought some CDs to try to calm my trouble apart retail therapy to help me.

So I had never told anyone that I loved them and I wasn't going to do that just 'cause she said it to me. I had to make sure I meant it. And so, yeah. Sorry about that. So that night, but

then,

yeah, that night I prayed about it and just had this strong feeling like, of course you do. And I thought about it. And so I called her back. And the next morning, huh?

Yeah, so I was on my way to work, the phone rang and I picked it up and he just said. I wasn't gonna say it just because you said it, but I love you too. And it was so sweet and I also felt like, of course. Of course. He wasn't gonna be pressured into doing something he wasn't ready to do or say something he wasn't ready to say. And that's very in keeping with his integrity.

Just another reason to love him. And so you weren't even technically dating at that time, but I get that you were very, you had already talked about the prospect of dating. You'd kiss multiple times. So when did you officially start to date?

Well, it wasn't like that then. There wasn't as much.

Oh,

okay. Now we're talking. Now we're dating

DTR.

Yeah, we were dating, but there wasn't this explicit declaration.

I came home for Labor Day weekend and we spent the whole weekend together. I was just staying at Kelleen's house, but we just did everything together that weekend and I barely saw my family 'cause I was just there to see him. And we had so much fun. And then we were talking on the phone every single day. So then at the end of September, we were talking on the phone one night and he said, so do you wanna get married? And I said, yeah, sure, we must have already talked about it because we decided he was gonna come see me in November, but I didn't. I wanna wait till November to tell my principal, because we had talked about I could come home at winter break and then we could get married early in the spring instead of waiting clear till next summer. 'cause we thought we're kind of old. We need to get on with things. so he said, do you wanna get married? I said, yeah. And then I hung up the phone and I was like, so am I engaged? Like, that seems so weird. But then he came in November and brought me a ring, and we found a new teacher and I moved home in December and we got married in March.

And here we are. They said it wouldn't last.

Yeah, I actually, even though that's a joke, it was a three month engagement and also you had been dating for like four months. Did anybody question you on that? 'cause I know you've told me that it's because you just already knew each other really well, and so it didn't seem necessary to date for a long time.

Yeah, no,

we knew each other so well, and I think because, at least on my side, I was pretty honest about who I was 'cause I wasn't trying to be super impressive or anything. 'cause he was just my friend and so it didn't feel like there were any big surprises. Even our first year of marriage, I just felt like. He was exactly who I thought he was. And so,

yeah,

I think in some ways it actually helped us know each other better to not have the romantic component because we spent a lot of time talking and just really knowing each other as people instead of being all caught up in the physical part of it. And so in some ways I think that was a real blessing overall.

Yeah.

I think it, it was just, divinely orchestrated that it would happen this way 'cause I could pursue fearlessly 'cause she wasn't interested, you know? because like I say, I wasn't very good with those things. If I had pursued and she had expressed some interest, then I would've been more apprehensive. Wait, what? What you, you liked me? What? Uh. But because there wasn't that reciprocation I could just keep on pursuing. And until that one point, like we talked about where she said, oh, I love you. And that kind of, wait, what, what?

That shows how you would react if, if it had been reciprocated the whole time.

Right. And so I think God just helped us out or helped me out a little there.

Yeah. That's great. And now 30 years have passed. What is your love advice to people seeking out companionship?

Oh, I don't, have any love advice? don't Just be open. See, I think my message is, I mean, how many people do you know that would, she talked about praying to change. if this is supposed to work out, can you help me feel more excited about him? How many people do you know that would do that? I don't know anybody. And so to let God prevail to that extent in your life that you would ask him to help you change how you feel about somebody. That's just remarkable to me. But I've also thought about that, that we can do that in all kinds of aspects of our lives and it's just evidence that God can help us. Change how we feel or how we think about anybody or anything. if it's something that he wants, if it's something that's good and we're willing to submit to that, then he can help us change just about anything. And so that's not a message about dating, but it's a message about life, I think.

But he makes it sound like I just was repulsed by him or something, But I really did like him. It wasn't like I needed a ton of help. We just needed to have a little help in the romantic area. So I'm glad that God helped me with that and like we've been able to have this sweet family. We just have the best kids in the world and I'm just so grateful for the life that we've been able to create together. And I guess if I had any advice for anyone, it's just to be confident in yourself and in your relationship with God and, and really learn how to like who you are so that you can contribute to a relationship in a really Wholehearted way so that you're not expecting someone else to make you feel okay about who you are just be yourself when you're dating someone else so that you can make sure that. This is someone who can love you as you are. 'cause it's hard to be in a relationship with someone that you're trying to be a different personality for. So just really embracing yourself and that was easy to do because we weren't romantically involved. I feel like I was able to really be my full self with him. So that was a blessing.

That's great. Do you have any other thoughts?

I don't. I just thank you for asking us questions 'cause I think it made it easier for us to

Yeah.

Talk about happy anniversary. Tom.

Happy anniversary to you.

Thank

you for I love you both.

I love you.

Thank you both for being the best parents. I think that you are such a great couple, you compliment each other well. You bring such good and different things to parenthood and to your relationship, and I love you both very, very much and I'm glad to have this story on record.

You listen to the whole thing. I hope it was helpful to you. And if you know someone who could benefit from this podcast, please send it to them. I would also love to hear any. Feedback from you. If there's something that resonated with you, something you had a question about, I would love for you to reach out to me. My email is Brooke, B-R-O-O-K-E, at Brooke oi, which is ONIK i.com. I can also put that in the show notes. I'd love to hear from you. Have a great week.