Graham, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Paul.

Great to, great to be chatting.

of course.

I'm near Annapolis, Maryland.

Where in the world are you?

Are you at today?

I'm in Adelaide, in, in Australia, so it's probably not one of

the, the obvious cities that a lot of your listeners would've, would've heard of.

But it's the, I think it's the fourth or fifth largest city in, in

Australia, , down on the southern coast and the head office of, of Kelsey Group.

That's great.

Yeah.

As you and I were just talking about in the Green room, I was able

to visit some of your operations there in Australia, and I was very

impressed by them and with your group.

So it's a real honor to have you on the show today.

Excellent.

Great, great to hear that.

Looking forward to the discussion

now.

You had a fascinating international career, , from Australia to

the uk to Singapore and to the US and now back to Australia.

, tell us about, you know, that journey some, and tell us some

about your, your company, Kelsey.

I, I've learned, I've been been in the, the, the transit or bus

industry now for, for over 15 years, so, you know, quite, quite a long time.

And I, I've learned over that period, there's probably two types of

people that end up in this industry.

The, the ones that are born into it and, uh, , are in it for their

lives and ne never want get out.

And then the other ones like me who sort of fall into it, it was never.

On my list to, to be a, be a transport or or transit industry specialist.

But I happen to fall into an opportunity, , over 15 years ago now,

uh, and been been involved ever since.

And now the thing that has kept me, , involved in, in the business is over

that 15 plus year journey, the number of opportunities we've had as a business,

but also just a number of opportunities.

In this space are, are huge.

And, and we continue to see that today and that's why I'm really

excited to take on, uh, this new role leading the calcium group.

Um, as you mentioned, you know, we've got operations in Australia , where

the businesses we we're, we're.

Founded, um, founded, moved into the UK and Singapore, and then more

recently with our acquisition of All Aboard America Holdings in the us.

So we've got our presence in some really, really interesting markets, and

each of those markets has significant opportunities, which I think is, is

a great story for us moving forward.

And something.

I'm looking forward to capitalize on, uh, um, as I, as I step into the role

in terms of the, what Kelsey and does.

So fundamentally, we're, we're a transit operator.

The largest part of our business is in Australia, running transit bus operations,

but we are a multimodal operator.

We also run Australia's largest.

Ferry passenger and, and vehicle ferry fleet, um, run to some of the, uh, world

renowned, , tourist destinations , in Australia, some of some of the great

islands that Australia has, and then offshore in Singapore, we operate, uh.

Bus transit, uh, under contract to the Land Transport Authority in Singapore.

And we also operate transit operations in the UK and Channel Islands.

And then where I've spent the last couple of years is running our All

Aboard America business in the us uh, where All Aboard America One is one

of the largest motor coach operators in the us So a little bit different.

To the transit background of, of the rest of, , the Kelian business.

, but again, in a, in a super exciting , space with huge amount

of, of growth in front of us.

, at the end of the day, you know, we run buses like we, like we do in Australia.

So there's a lot of similarities between what we do, uh, in Australia and the us,

which is, you know, why we think that was a great acquisition for us and has got

huge opportunities for us moving forward.

Yeah.

While we're there on that topic, tell us a little bit more about All

American holding, uh, how it works and how it fits into the calcium group.

It is a little bit different than the, than the work you do elsewhere, right?

I.

Yeah, and it's, um, I mean we, as I said, one of the largest

motor coach operators in the us.

Uh, but we do fly a bit under the radar.

And the reason we do that is we really operate six separate brands in,

in, in the various locations across the south and southwest of the us.

, so the, the business, , is a combination of those six market leading brands,

um, which are very well known in, in their , local geographies.

, it was actually one of the things that really attracted us with the Kelsey

and hat on to the all aboard business in, in originally in that, um, we like

the model that they had set up of.

The, , very strong local operating brands coming together , under

common ownership and common direction of all Aboard holdings.

It's a very similar structure to the way our business has grown and developed

in Australia, where we also operate.

A number of diverse brands, , with the leaders of tho those brands

given, , a lot of power to control their destiny and, and take their

business where they believe the best opportunities are in their local market.

Under, , the single umbrella, umbrella and guidance of Calcium Group, but

more specifically in the us the All Aboard America Holdings, uh, company.

what's it like to take over a CEO of a major company

like this in the first month?

What's, what's it been like for you?

It, it's obviously, you know, a big step up and, and a

big learning curve as it is stepping into new role, into a new role.

I think the, the benefit that I've got stepping into this role is, I think I

know the underlying business pretty well.

I've been involved over the last 15 years in a large number of,

of the operations in Australia internationally, and more recently.

Running, running our US business.

So I, I do think I, I know the underlying business very well, which is a, a, a,

a big headstart for me, but obviously stepping into, , the group CEO role

comes with, , a number of challenges and responsibilities and everything

else that, that comes , with a job like this, , um, you know, our, our business.

Like, like any business, ha has got some challenges at the moment and getting

my head around those and working out how we plot, uh, our best path forward

really so that, you know, we are in a position to take advantage of some of

the really great growth opportunities to.

In the industry, in the jurisdictions that we operate, uh, it is really

gonna be my focus, um, because, you know, some of these opportunities

don't come around that often.

And I think we, we've gotta make sure we're positioned internally

in the best possible way to take advantage of those opportunities.

, if and when they, they do come up.

Yeah.

One of the things that I was, um, fascinated by during my trip there to

Australia just prior to US Thanksgiving, was how that everything is contracted

out, you know, fixed route rail.

Uh, here in the United States we seem to focus heavily on contracting

out paratransit van, service on demand, those kind of things, and

a little bit of fixed drought.

But very different there in Australia.

Right?

I mean, pretty much you're the operator of, of, of most of the transit services

in the places where you're at, right?

In other words, fixed route rail, light rail, all that.

I.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, Australia, like, like the us uh, big country with,

with different states that like to do things different ways.

Yeah.

So there is a bit of a, a diversity across the different states of Australia,

but really, you know, the reason our business has grown to become, , one of

the largest operators in Australia is.

Through taking advantage of a wave of, , outsourcing and contracting that

governments have gone through in a number of key jurisdictions , in Australia.

, obviously it's in our interest to say this, but I think there's, there's

also a, a bunch of evidence to, to, to support it, to show that, you know,

governments, if they do this the right way, governments and transit authorities

can get a really, really good outcome , through going down the contracting route.

Regardless of, of the mode, it is a bit narrow minded to only focus

on a small subset , of the overall transportation, , requirements as,

as needing to be contracted out.

You know, I think the key thing is for, for governments to get the

model right and then, um, you know, follow through with that model.

Uh.

Not, not focused on the mode of the transportation, but focused

on getting the best outcome for their, for their customers.

And I think there are a number of jurisdictions in Australia

that have done that very well.

Tell us about some of the innovations you're seeing in

the public transportation, , world.

You know, from your perspective, what are some of the innovations

in 2025 that you think are having an impact on the industry?

Yeah, I mean in, in the Australian business at the moment,

you know, we are not probably at the forefront like some of the business in

Europe, but we are very rapidly moving to decarbonize, our transit bus fleets.

Obviously, that, that technology in itself is, is a big innovation, a big change, and

should, you know, make public transport networks, uh, obviously more sustainable,

but hopefully, you know, more, more reliable and more customer friendly.

Our big focus is, um, working out how we can best align with that new technology

to deliver significant efficiencies for for our government clients.

You know, ultimately the way we grow as a business is to show our

government clients that we operate the network, , as efficiently as possible.

And you know, one of the ways we generate growth for ourselves is by showing

them that making certain changes.

To, to look at how we operate things and better utilize our assets means

they essentially get more value for money for every dollar that they need

to, to take from taxpayers to put into the, the, the public transport network.

So with the change in technology to, uh, to battery electric buses in the

large part here in Australia, that does change the operating environment for us.

You know, it comes with, um, charging requirements, which are

different to the diesel fleet.

But at the same time, it comes with a different maintenance profile to what

we had with a diesel fleet, and we're very focused on using our technologies

and our people ultimately to find the optimal solution to deliver the

best value for money for our clients.

Given now they are the ones generally who are making the very,

very significant investments.

Both the buses and the infrastructure as we move to a a

zero emission, , transit fleet.

So that's very much our, our focus in Australia is trying

to be the forefront of that.

And we are taking that focus, , elsewhere to, to our other operations.

Now, our business in the US being being motor coaches.

, is not gonna be on the same timeline like, , some of our transit operations

into, in, in terms of moving to, uh, alternative powered vehicles.

You know, the diesel motor coach I think is gonna be around for a very long time.

But we are taking the learnings we're generating from the, the new technology

and the shift we're seeing in some of our other markets and making sure,

you know, when the shift does happen.

We are in the best possible place to take advantage of it.

Um, even in markets where, you know, that change is, is is further off.

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What are some of your other priorities as a CEO that you're

hoping and your vision over the next 12 to 24 months there at Kelsey and group,

you, you're publicly traded, right?

Yeah, so we're a publicly traded company on the,

on the Australian stock change.

So, you know, that's one of the learning curves for me is, uh, getting in, getting

the feel of of, of listening to our investors and, and hearing what they,

what they have to say, uh, when we report.

, and obviously, you know, that that message is important.

I think we're in a really, really good spot.

I think, you know, we're in a great, part of the market.

There are significant opportunities and if we can get ourselves, um, in the,

to set up, in the best possible light to take advantage of opportunities, I

think, you know, delivering the growth that our, uh, shareholders would like

to see is, is not gonna be a challenge.

, so my focus over the short to medium term is to, to really focus on what we do best.

, at the end of the day, you know, while all business is complicated,

especially these days, you know, what we really do is simple.

You know, we want to provide the best possible customer service for our,

for our customers, and fundamentally we wanna deliver, you know, extremely

reliable and extremely safe.

Transportation.

, so my, my message to the team is let's focus on making sure we do those

simple things really, really well.

'cause if we do those, that, those, well, no, the other, um, transformational

changes and transformational growth and taking advantage of the opportunities

that we're in front of us, you know, that'll take care of itself if we do

the simple things well and deliver, deliver for our customers and clients.

All right, let's have some fun with some fun questions.

Now, uh, we've got through all the serious stuff.

, um, like me, you travel a lot, right?

You've been across Australia, the uk, Singapore, and the us.

Uh, where do you get the best coffee?

Oh look, Australia does a pretty good job of coffee.

Yeah, Melbourne

coffee is great, man.

I think, uh,

places, places like Adelaide and Melbourne, uh, hard,

hard to beat, especially, uh, when, when you travel a lot, uh, it's one

of the things I, one of the things I miss is, uh, is a really good, uh.

Coffee from the local coffee shop back home in Australia?

Yeah.

When I was there, uh, a couple months ago, every day we had, we had

coffee at a different place every day and they were all amazing, man.

Nice.

It's,

it's part of, it's part of everyday life here and part of

doing business, so you've gotta, you gotta enjoy coffee if you, if you

wanna do business in this country.

That's great.

So when did you come to the us?

How long ago was that?

And did you, did you have any culture shock when you came over?

So Kelsey and acquired All Aboard America in June, 2023.

So I was there just short of two years.

, the original plan was to, to be there a bit bit longer than that.

But, you know, there, there's this, there's a opportunity arose.

Yeah.

Opportunities arise and you ne you never plan these thi things outside.

And I'm spending just under two years.

So moved, moved the family across, uh, we were based in Brisbane,

in Australia before that, and moved the family across to.

To Denver in Colorado where all a boards head office is.

And we had an absolutely fantastic, uh, 18 months to two, two years.

Uh, I got two little girls and they, they'd never seen snow before, so Oh yeah.

They got to learn pretty quickly what a, what a real winter was

in, uh, the mountains of Colorado, which is, which is fantastic.

And they've, they've come back to Australia now.

American accents.

So it's a, it's a very good reminder of our, of our excellent

time that we had in, in the us.

Yeah, Brisbane's amazing man.

And the Gold Coast and the Sunshine Coast.

Well, we were in the Sunshine Coast for, we were there for the weekend.

Remember we went to that zoo, uh, the Australia Zoo?

Yeah, yeah.

Go right in and pet the, uh, pet the animals in there that we, I, I mean,

it was just such a relaxed, laid back.

Um, I said I could live here, man.

This place is great.

Yeah, no, Colorado was great, but it is, uh, it's great being home.

So, you know, we're, we're pretty lucky.

We've lived in some, lived in some great places.

What do you think the most, uh, understated skill

is that a transit CEO needs today?

, Graeme Legh: I mean.

I always look at our business, as I said, you know, it's very easy to

overcomplicate things and you know, we're a big business now and there

are very complicated aspects for it.

But at the end of the day, you know, what we, what we do is simple.

And the thing that I always come back to is we are a people business in, in every

way that you look at it in terms of, you know, we fundamentally move people.

That's what we we're paid to do.

But more importantly, you know, we are a people business in terms of our team and

our employees and the frontline staff.

We need to deliver for, for our customers.

So, um, you know, in terms of the, the, the biggest skill is, is understanding

how important the people are and really being able to connect with the, the

very diverse range of people that we need as a business to, to be successful.

Um, you know, right across.

The, the operation, uh, and across the different geographies that we operate.

So that, that ability to connect with people, I think is probably

the, the, the key one for me.

Um, having worked in both locations, what do you think

the biggest difference is between working in the US and Australia?

I.

Um,

you know, there, there are a lot of similarities, which is good

'cause I think it makes, you know, us going to the US and, and, and guys from

the US coming to Australia a a lot easier.

'cause fundamentally there are a lot of similarities.

Probably the biggest thing that I learned that I, I really want to try and bring,

bring back to, you know, our Australian team, but also just, you know, how the

people we, how, how, how we do business in Australia is now I think Americans

doing business and the US doing business.

Uh, come at things with a very optimistic attitude.

, when I sat with my team and we looked at the opportunities in front of us

when we're we're in, in the us, you know, it was very much, you know,

what can we do to make this happen?

As opposed to, you know, sometimes in, in other parts, parts of the world,

it's, you know, these are the reasons, you know, we can't go and do this

and this is why it's all too hard.

And I think just.

Attacking problems and attacking opportunities with that really

optimistic, um, background, you know, makes a huge difference in terms

of how you're ultimately successful in delivering some of those things.

So I, I, I think that's one of the things that I was super,

, impressed with in terms of.

Our team in the us but just the US generally, you know, the opportunities

that optimism they have to, to, to go after opportunities as opposed to, you

know, sometimes seeing all the roadblocks come up as why we, why we can't do things.

Um, we, so that, that's one of the big things that I would love to bring out of

the US and bring back to our business.

That's very

interesting.

Yeah.

I like that.

, do you have a favorite mode of public transportation?

You know, bus, ferry, train or something else?

Do, are you, like, do you ride motorcycles or anything?

Yeah.

Yeah,

we, um, as I said, we run a lot of ferries and, you know, some of our

ferry operations are pretty hard to beat.

Uh, going to work on a ferry, uh, down the Brisbane River

where I was from originally.

Yeah.

Or another place in Australia, you know, to, it's a not, sometimes, not the most

efficient way from a time point of view to get to work, but a fantastic way

to arrive at work with a really good mindset sitting on a ferry, reading

the paper or, or drinking a coffee.

So.

I think, I think ferry transport in, in the transit world is pretty hard

to beat and, you know, hard for, hard for our, all of our bus operations

to compete with some of the great ferry services we run in Australia.

Yeah.

One of the ones that I did get pretty close to, I.

Is the, the Bustang Motor Coach Service in Colorado.

So that's a service that we run, uh, under contract to the COR Colorado

Department of Transport, running motor coaches, um, from Denver primarily

to all the key locations in Colorado.

And one of the big service that we operate is, is, uh, along

the I 70 into the mountains.

So, um, given I, I quite like.

Skiing and having the opportunity to live in Denver and, and do a bit of

skiing in Colorado, getting one of our bustang buses up into the mountains,

um, was always a pretty good, pretty good transit experience as well.

It is good.

Yeah, that sounds fun.

I love, uh, I love the long distance rails.

Personally, I've done some amazing rail trips, , uh, even excursion rail, like

in Denver, it was Denver to Moab , it's a great, , excursion train that's there.

It's good times.

Okay, a couple more questions, uh, just kind of fun stuff.

Um, I don't often get a chance to ask fun questions, so I

wanted to throw it in with you.

, do you have a, well, lemme tell me about that island sum that you

guys own over there in Australia and you've got service there.

You've got bus service to it, and you've got ferries that go to it.

It's like an eco island or something like that.

, Graeme Legh: we've got a, a marine and tourism division in Australia that sits

alongside our bus division and, and that division, uh, is fortunate enough to, to

run the ferry services to some fantastic islands and, and, you know, absolutely

beautiful places if, if people ever get to get a chance to, to come to Australia.

So there, there's a number of key ones.

There's Kangaroo Island, which is a service in South Australia from Adelaide.

We run the ferry, but we also run a number of coach tours and other

tourism opportunities on the island.

And then, uh, in Queensland, again, we run, , the motor, , a vehicle ferry to,

to Strat, broke island, but also then have the, the transit contract providing the,

the bus transit, , services on the island.

Some of these island destinations, we are, we really are.

You know, fundamental to the people that call US Islands home, in terms of

how they get to and from the mainland.

Oh yeah.

Their transit are in the island.

But also, and importantly, providing a great customer experience for, for all

the tourists that, that travel to the islands and really drive those economies.

So.

Now we, we, we, we take that responsibility pretty seriously

and know we, uh, a big part of what makes those communities tick.

, and, and you know, that that's a good thing.

And we hope, hope we're doing a good job.

All right, let's get a little esoteric here then.

Um, what do you think the best leadership advice is that you've ever received?

Oh, that's a good one.

Uh, I've worked for some, I've worked for some, I've worked for some great

leaders and they, the, the, the ones that, uh, I've worked for always seem to

have their, their sayings, which simplify things and, and yeah, make it clear, uh.

I mean, one that I, I come back to pretty often is, is a, is a,

is a pretty famous, famous quote.

Um, you know, something along the, to the effect of, you know,

if you cannot do great things, do small things in great ways.

Oh, I like that.

, Graeme Legh: in, in terms of the teams that I've led, I think.

That's one of the things that I hope I've brought to the table in,

in helping them see through some of the complexity and, um, some of the

roadblocks that we're talking about.

You know, sometimes when you're presented with a problem, you know,

it all looks so big and complicated, it feels a bit insurmountable.

Uh, and I think one of the key jobs as a leader, , is helping your team

realize that you, every problem can be broken down into small things.

And if you do those small things well.

You got every chance of actually being successful in, in the big thing.

So know as I said, you know, big focus of mine is, you know, let, let's look

at the simple fundamental things we do and do them really, really well.

And if we take that attitude into the problems we face and our teams face

this day on a daily basis, you know, I think that's a good way to help them.

, work through some of the big challenges that, that inevitably come up.

. Paul Comfort: And final question, and you can add in anything you

want to here, Graham, at the end.

But I'm wondering what excites you most about the future of mobility?

Both, you know, both where you operate, but even around the world.

What, what is exciting you most as you look through the horizon?

Yeah, I mean, I think it, it's an industry as

you would know, Paul being.

Been around it for a long time, you know, from the outside it

doesn't look that exciting.

And you know, everyone just says, you, you run buses up and down the

street, you know what's going on there.

But I think once you're on the inside and you see what's happening, you know,

I think, I think I understand and I can see that there's huge opportunities.

For, for this industry moving forward.

You know, there's some really big macro themes around the world that the

transport and transit industry are, you know, riding the tailwinds on.

You know, I think urbanization around the world has been a big theme over, you know.

50 years plus going back.

And I think that's gonna continue, continue, um, uh, in, into the future.

Uh, and alongside that now, the more recent theme of, of decarbonization

and working out how we do things sustainably moving forward.

And I think the, the transit and mass transport industry.

Is really fundamental to making sure both of those things are successful.

You know, we can't all, we can't all keep moving to cities and, and not get

around and we can't achieve anything that, you know, politicians and other

people wanna achieve in terms of doing things sustainably if, if, if we are

not, uh, utilizing mass transportation as effectively and efficiently as possible.

So, you know, what excites me is, is, is trying to work out.

How our various mass transit opportunities around the place can really, one, take

advantage of those, those themes, but two, you know, really be a key, uh,

solution to what is gonna be an ongoing problem, you know, as far as we can,

as far as we look at in the future.

And I think that comes with huge opportunities.

And if we can be the ones that can take advantage of that and solve

some of those problems, you know, I think our business has got a, a long

road of, of success in front of it.

Well, I wish you great success, Graham, in your new role as

CEO of Kelsey and group one of the largest, uh, transportation companies,

not only in Australia, but the world.

We thank you for being a guest with us today on Transit Unplugged, and

hope to visit you again sometime in the next couple years in Australia.

Maybe we'll come visit one of those islands.

Yeah, no, definitely.

Let me know when you're back here, Paul and I would be very happy to take you

on one of those great ferry rides to one of the, one of the great islands.

So thank thanks.

Appreciate the to come on the show and uh, it's been a great talk.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode

of the Transit Unplugged Podcast.

We're so glad you're here.

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