Hello and welcome to the Genius Podcast.

My name is Karen Doyle, your host and founder of The Genius Project,

an initiative for Catholic women designed to support and resource you

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On this week's episode of the Genius Podcast, I am joined by Bridget Sakar.

Bridget shares a very powerful story about the role that her faith played

in preparing her to be able to forgive somebody who took the life of her child.

Just a disclaimer that this episode does discuss the death of a child

and grief and loss, and so just to prepare you for that in this episode.

This is an incredibly sacred conversation in which Bridget really shares quite

vulnerably about her experience of tragedy, of losing her daughter

Veronique, and how she was actually able to forgive the drunk driver who

took the life of her child, and now what she is actually doing to channel

that grief and to offer, I guess, her suffering as a gift to those around her.

I really hope and pray that you are blessed by this convers.

Well, Bridget, welcome to the Genius Podcast.

It's such a gift and a joy to have you joining us today.

You're based in Sydney and I'm in Canberra in Australia, but welcome.

Thank you, Karen.

Thank you for having me on the podcast.

Oh, look, it's so wonderful.

You recently came down to Canberra when we were, um, filming the Shalom

World series called Real Women and you and Vaughn and I had a, like a

couple of hours in the studio together.

We did our pod, our interview for the TV show.

But golly goodness, just being in your presence, um, Vaughn and I were just.

So moved and the conversation after was really sacred, and so it's just beautiful

to have you joining us on the podcast to have a similar conversation around, I

guess, the role of forgiveness, because that's been a big journey for you.

But before we jump into that, would you just give the listeners

a little bit of background as to who you are and and what you do?

Sure.

Sure.

Born and bred in Sydney.

Um, and, you know, like every other person went to school, went to uni,

um, and after uni, um, you know, into the corporate world for, you know,

um, 30, 30, 35 years of my life.

Um, and you know, very much in all my life, everything I've done,

um, has had to have a purpose.

I just never got outta bed and thought I was going to a.

It had to have a purpose, had to have meaning.

So in the corporate world, you know, my purpose was to help

fit people into home ownership.

But then, you know, in life we, we have pathways and we have plans,

we have goals, and you know, absolutely people should have those.

But, you know, we never, ever, um, know what's gonna happen.

And, uh, the story, um, of the, of the tragedy that occurred to me

and my family, whereby, you know, um, Veronica, my daughter, um, and

her cousins obviously were, Having a great time together and went for

a walk, um, to get some ice cream.

And, you know, seven children were hit tragically killed

three years ago in February.

Um, four of the children obviously killed, and Veronique being one of them,

and one of them, you know, suffering from, you know, severe brain injuries.

And the other two obviously, you know, live every day their life, which we can't

forget the children that, the survivors or the, all the, all the sibling.

And from there, I've, you know, um, you know, continued through

life, uh, journeying without my daughter, with my son, who's 16

now, Michael and my husband pray.

Um, and it's always been about the purpose.

What is the purpose?

What is my purpose?

Um, and since then, um, we, I've started a charity called Heartfelt,

which is, um, an online platform helping people, um, through their.

And also we've opened a cafe called Kata Cafe, um, which is foreign French

for the four children, um, honoring them and also in particular my daughter

who loved cooking and feeding people.

And the beauty about the cafe, it's a community cafe in Stratfield

to give back to the community.

Um, and people can come into the cafe and they can bring a father, their loved one.

Um, and we've got a Polaroid camera.

We take a photo of them and put up on the wall.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, cuz love leaves on just because you love someone, just

because you know someone died.

Stop loving them.

And what we're gonna do with the proceed of the cafe is actually, um, give it to

Santa Sabina, the school that my daughter went to, um, uh, for a scholarship for

a girl, um, from year 10, 11 and 12.

So it'll start next year and would've been year 10.

So it's about giving somebody else the opportunity to go to the

same school that she went to who can't afford to go to that school.

And we, we wanna give back.

And if I can give.

We can give back as a family, um, to the community, to the school

that Veronique went to, to another family, to feel that the love and

the privilege of being in a school.

Um, so that's kind of a little bit about myself.

You know, I'm, I'm married, you know, I've got Michael, um, who I, you know,

invest a lot of time and, and, and energy into because, you know, he needs

to feel like he's worth living for.

Um, we sold our corporate business, um, the, the lending business

I was in, but I'm still, you know, there for a couple days.

A.

Doing what I do best.

And that is connecting people, nurturing relationships.

And um, uh, so I'm gonna, you know, I do a bit of finance.

Um, I do a bit of, you know, coming into the cafe, talking to people.

That's what I love doing and helping people in grief, which is key to my heart.

And the only way I was able to do that is obviously, you know, taking that

path of forgiveness and, you know, doing God's great work that he wants me to do.

Yeah.

Bridget?

A little bit, but I mean, it's kinda, I'm not.

That's a nutshell, and we can unpack that over the next 30 minutes together.

Cause there's so many things in that conversation that

are real gifts for people.

Um, and I, I think what you've done is absolutely extraordinary.

I just really wanna honor you and, and Layla and Danny as well, because

the journey has not been easy.

But for some reason, and, and we can get to this later on, but you said

that perhaps you were chosen for this, to carry this cross because you

would bear witness to other people.

Yeah.

And you would bear the way to navigate, um, forgiveness and to navigate grief

in a way that's united with Christ.

And, and we do know that in Christ, our suffering is not wasted.

That we have this, there is redemptive suffering and that he can.

Or things for good, even the most tragic and traumatic.

But would you, would you, um, I guess just come back a little bit, maybe those years,

and I know in our shalom series you, you did share, but some of the listeners

might not be familiar with your story, but your, your family and there was another

family and, and both of you are related.

Um, yeah.

Would you take us back and just share a little bit more

about that day and that story?

Yeah.

So.

You know, uh, obviously Danny and Layla are cousins of mine.

Um, and our girls love being together.

Danny's daughter, um, Angelina was a year older than Ron.

Ran was 11 and Angelina was 12.

And obviously there was Bel 13.

The three girls really loved being together, and it was the 1st of February.

Um, you know, I, um, had said to my husband, well, you

know, it's Marvel's birthday.

One of the girls that was, you know, walking with them.

That survived was her birthday.

And, uh, we had, uh, another cousin of ours, Danny and Layla's cousin

as well, who's having her 21st.

And I said, look, it makes sense if I just dropped Veronique, um,

to be with, with Bel and Angelina.

And they were so excited about being together.

I was just, they couldn't wait for the 1st of February.

And, um, then we're head off to this party and then I'll go back and pick her up.

Um, and so, It was a very busy day.

That day.

I was running around and, you know, verenique said, do you wanna stay

here or sleep over or come back home?

We'll see.

She goes, no, I'll pack my bag, but, you know, um, maybe I'll come back home.

So, got a problem.

We, we got there about 10 to seven.

Um, I told her to put her shoes on.

Or she, she had longs on.

So I said, put your shoes on Veronica.

Put your sand shoes on.

Knocked on the door.

Danny answered.

And then I said, Danny, um, uh, please make sure her mobile phone's charged.

It was sort of dying, um, because I need her to call me to tell me whether she

wants to pick her up after the party.

And he goes, has she eaten?

I said, look, she can always eat.

My daughter loves food.

Anyway, dropped her off, then came back home.

I met Craig at my place, and then we headed down to Sury.

To go to the 21st, just park the car.

I just got up the stairs to the venue and then Danny rang, so literally

like maybe five to eight, and I thought, why is he calling me?

Then I meant to kind of be behind us.

And he said to me, um, um, I've lost my children.

And I said, oh, okay.

I've thought maybe they've gone for a run around the streets or, and he said that.

I said, well, what do you mean?

Danny goes, they're dead.

Angelina, auntie and Sienna are.

I don't know if I was standing after he said that or what happened.

I, I just remember thinking, well what about Veronique?

I mean, do I ask about Veronique?

I mean, imagine how selfish that would look if he's telling me his kids are dead.

Even though I couldn't even grasp what he was, what that meant.

Um, how to ask about Veronique.

And he and I, then I said, um, is what about Veronique Danny?

And he goes, you just need to come to the golf.

So I, I, I must have, I don't know.

I just remember Craig grabbing me and we just made it down the stairs

into the car, and I was praying, how will Mary, our father, how will Mary,

our father, please don't let me, you know, please don't let this happen.

Um, uh, we called Danny a few times from the car.

It's, no, it's not good.

What will, Danny, what do you mean?

And you know, you just need to come here.

Call my siblings, my sister and my brother, and.

And when I got there, it was, it was a crime scene.

It was lights everywhere, people everywhere.

We couldn't get in.

There was like tapes and I went up to the police office and said,

my daughter's here, you know?

And they said, sorry, can't come in.

This is not the way to come in.

And we drove around and I don't even, I don't even remember how, but

I do remember just sitting on the footpath, unable to get to Veronique.

Um, Everyone's just coming to me and someone gave me a rosary of rosary beads

in my hand, and I just climbed onto the rosary beads and sat down at gutter.

Um, and that was it.

You know, I don't know.

The night just went wide, people coming and going, lights everywhere.

And, uh, yeah.

Yeah.

I, um, I, I realized, I don't know when, during the night that, you

know, um, Leanna and Mabel were taken to hospital and Chave was in a coma.

And Verne was right on the footpath.

She was right next to, she was a Sienna, so that, you know, she swung 20

meters in the air into the golf course.

So she was, you know, they were all very badly Yeah.

Impacted.

And the driver was drunk on drugs, speeding 130 Ks in a 50 K zone.

Um, got in the car knowing he was drunk and drugged.

Um, and he was taking, going to an atm, take out cash probably to pay the dealer.

So, or the person who gave him the drugs.

So, um, yeah, I mean, I just, Michael was still home.

He was, he had his first soccer game, so he said, and I'm doing,

is it okay if I stay home?

He goes, mom, I would love to go, but really what?

It was like, npl, like league soccer.

And he says, I can't, I don't wanna be tired.

So I thought, you know what?

I get my girlfriend to check on him because, you know, I, I didn't want him to

be tired and I thought it won't be long.

Get home by midnight the latest, by the time I go get Veronique.

And, um, you know, I didn't even kiss her.

Goodbye.

We're rushing.

You know, that, that life of rushing.

Yeah.

I didn't give her a kiss, so I said, just put your shoes on, Monique.

Um, I'll be back.

And I stop.

You know, by the time I get home, by the time I get changed,

go back down to the city.

It was just a rush.

And I've learned in life, you just, you just gotta stop and pause and say

goodbye every time you see your children.

To drop 'em off to school or drop 'em for anywhere.

Goodbye.

Whatever you do when you Yes.

Depart of someone, come them, kiss them, whatever it is, cuz you just dunno.

Yeah.

Gosh.

It's such a huge thing that you've all been through.

I just, there's not even words for it.

I mean, I kept saying, Lord, have mercy on me, Lord have mercy, Lord.

Like, like God, you're merciful.

You know, like, please, you know, take this cup away from me cuz it.

Too much.

Way too much.

Too much.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of the most extraordinary things, Bridget, was I guess that in the days

after the accident, and this is where I guess your story has become such so

public for people, um, was obviously because of the enormity of the tragedy

and the number of people injured, that the news crew were there when you and

the families went to visit the site.

Yeah.

And it's particularly centered around the power.

Forgiveness and just the response, the immediate response

that happened that next day.

Would you share a little bit about that?

Yeah.

Look, it's hard, you know, it's hard.

Sorry, I wouldn't mean to cut you then, Karen.

It's hard to explain how it actually, it, it's, it's the Holy Spirit.

That talks and walks through your mind, your heart, and your soul.

You know, for Layla to get in front of me, and obviously I'm behind

the scenes in the same, in the same way, um, that she's on the media.

Um, and Layla's the mum, just to clarify for, is the mother of

the three children, Sienna, and we've both lost half our families.

Yes.

Um, you know, and she says, I think I forgive.

And, and I'm, you know, in the same.

Through the contemplation of, you know, just to forgiveness, because

realize that Jesus on the cross, you know, and, and we're obviously gonna

go into holy week next week, you know, uh, you know, my, and this goes

to my relationship with the cross.

It's incre incredibly, it's, it changed incredibly after this

tragedy because I didn't quite understand what it meant to really.

Suffer the way.

Jesus and I probably haven't even suffered as much as Jesus suffered,

humiliated, but him being in the worst time of his life was embarrassed.

He was spa at, he was, you know, even the way of dying on the cross,

the most humiliating way to die.

And then having his mother just watch that.

I just thought, well, that's what Jesus wants of us.

He wants us to forgive.

He wants us to, to let it.

Um, because the only way to actually be with him one day and, and be

with my daughter and, and reunite is to actually follow his path and,

and, and, you know, walk your talk.

I think God was sort of saying to me and to my family, like, yeah, our father's

there every day for you, and you say it, but do we really do what it says?

Mm-hmm.

And this.

I was put to the test, if that makes sense.

Like, you know, like I felt like I can take any path here.

I could take the anger and the hatred, or I can take what Jesus wanted us to

do, love one another, be, you know, do good for others and to forgive.

And somehow that whole, you washed with it.

You know, you washed with this whole Yes.

The grace spirit that you, the grace of God.

And, and this is why I think God did choose our families, because

imagine if one of the families.

Was angry and spiteful, what that would've done to our, our us as

families to our grieving process.

Um, to, you know, I mean, it's to my ch to our children.

I, I look at my son and, you know, he's full of love and respect, and

there's no, you know, sometimes I'm only gonna think twice about the driver's

name because I, it's just not, it's just not part of my thought process.

Yeah.

And I think it's the grace of God, the Holy Spirit.

Um, and I do believe sometimes, you know, we know the media, they never

take a, a good story and no, they don't embellish it, but they did because

I think the Holy Spirit was even more powerful than, than the media.

Like He, it was really, I think God had a message that he wanted to, to bring out.

And, you know, four children, I mean, someone recently only said

to me four, and there's four, you know, four corners to the cross.

Like there's a four cross.

Four and these children, you know, why four?

Like, you know, and I really believe that there's a reason why.

And, um, from a, from a, from many levels, you know, from four corners

of the world, from families, you know, together, how would they navigate

through these, um, you know, the power of fa a family unit in the community?

Um, You know, in giving us together and grieving as a community, even

though we grieve alone, but, and I do believe we heal together.

It's all, it's all part of god's.

But to believe that God permitted this tragedy to happen for the

greater good and the greater good's coming out in so many ways.

Yes.

Yes it is.

And I, I think just because I'd love to talk about that because when

we, when we hit a difficult season or hip trauma or tragedy and loss,

such as you've experienced, I, I think a lot of people, I mean, it's

just so, they're just so in shock.

And navigating through that can be so hard.

But I know that you'd said to me in another conversation we'd had

that you were able to make that decision because you'd sewn so much

into your faith over many years and that prepared you for that moment.

Absolutely.

It doesn't, you can't buy faith, like you can't just purchase at the shelf.

It takes years of, it's a relationship that you, um, have with Christ

and with your community of.

If I, if, if I feel like saying, you know, coming from a finance

corporate background in, I say the Bank of Faith is paying its dividends.

Does that make sense?

Like, it's almost like the building blocks of your mom and dad talking

about Christ reciting the Bible versus in the Bible going to church.

The meaning of fasting, the meaning of Easter, the meaning of, you know,

forgiveness, the meaning of God's love all comes back and, and actually, In

it, you know, like living it, getting in the car with your children, and we

would always pray, you know, a decade on the way to school, but we'd offer

it up to something, you know, someone suffering or you know, a homeless person

or whatever it is, someone's sick.

All that, you know, for me played a huge role in how I was gonna cope with.

Oh, God was, God was, you know, the tapestry was being already weaved for

him to prepare me, yes, for what was coming and I would always pray the seven

sorrows of our lady at least a year.

I started, my mom gave me a book of a, a woman who was, would

come, you know, to visit her.

Um, and she gave her the seven sorrows of our lady and mom

said, here you go, read this.

You know, and every day I'd read it every day on the train and I caught a train.

I would read it and, um, I, I, I used to say, oh, mother Mary, how, how could you

have gone through all these, your sorrows?

And I think even that was part of the preparation of your

heart will be, sorry, you, you.

You know, go through the loss of a child and, um, it's all part of it.

Yeah, it is.

I think as you're talking, um, one word or statement comes to mind.

It's about stewardship.

And I often hear people talking about stewarding the moments of our life.

Well, and someone said to me, you know, a couple of years ago when we were

going through a difficult season, um, just with Covid and the impact that

that has for us, that you can suffer.

And she said, just suffer.

Well, my friends suffer.

Well, and it hadn't occurred to me before that that I could actually choose

my response to my suffering because so much of the time in life it feels like

we're a victim to the circumstances and things that are happening to us,

but it's it, it's quite empowering in the sense, and not to take away from.

Tragic circumstances, but it's just a reminder that we actually have that

capacity to choose our response to suffering and to suffer well to steward

the moment so that we can grow, so that we can try and stay close to the Lord.

And one of the fruits of that which is clearly evident in your families

is just that that then becomes a.

That redemptive suffering, but that stewardship at the moment, and I think

when we're faced with difficulty, whether it's through death and loss or other

situations Yeah, just that, that we do have, I guess, the power to choose.

Yes.

Yeah.

And that's exactly right.

And you only talk to someone about this morning.

You have a choice on which path you wanna take, and that, you know, that

stewardship that you're talking about.

And the redemptive suffering it, it is a choice like it, we're born with free

will and we can choose, you know, people always sort of blame God when things go

wrong, but God didn't tell the driver to get in the car and get on 130 Ks

and, you know, take drugs and alcohol.

That's not written anywhere in the Bible with not part of Christ's teaching.

So we can't or blame God, you know, we, we have to, you know, for me it's, it's,

it's acceptance of, of what's happened.

Um, and, and absolutely the pain and suffering comes with that acceptance,

but it's choosing what am I gonna do with this pain and suffering?

How, how am I gonna take it?

And, and, and, and not to say that I, you know, I, I struggle with sleep.

I, I struggle with anxiety.

Um, you know, um, you know, you, your whole being completely changes

after you lose your flesh and blood.

It's the worst kind, let alone tragic.

Yeah, over and above the loss of a child's, how that child,

how you lose that child as well.

But I've chosen to cuz because my belief in, in knowing that,

that life is there is eternity.

Life is not just about now, this is temporary.

So, you know, for me, I made the choice to do great things, to

honor her, to honor all of them, actually, all the four children.

Um, and particular, you know, for Veronique to be proud of me and what

I'm gonna do, um, until I see her again.

And, you know, that includes all the stuff that I've, I'm doing around the, you know,

the, the, the heartfelt, um, platform.

You know, um, giving back through the cafe and being a disciple of Christ and

showing others that what forgiveness can.

Um, and what loving, what loving Christ and the relationship you can have with

Christ, um, what that can manifest into.

When, when, when, when, when something happens that, you know,

you can't, you have no control over and you've to surrender at times.

You know, it's, this is too much for me.

Jesus, take this cup away from me.

Yes.

And I've, and I've learned, and I've realized that, you know, Jesus was human

as well and divine, and he suffered.

You know, no one's exempt from suffering.

If, if, if the, if God's only son suffered, then you

know, who are, we like, who?

I like.

I don't, I'm no one.

I'm, I'm just like everyone else.

And at times I say to myself, well, I'm not the first person to lose a child.

Um, many people do.

And as much as I can tap into those people to try and help those that are

suffering and struggling, those that can't cope with their grief, whose heart.

Is about, you know, hot community, it's about speaking grief.

Um, then I wanna do that because all my, because one of the gifts and

talents that God gave me is being able to connect with people and being able

to talk to people and have people, make people who are comfortable that

they're, they can be open about their, their feelings and, and to trust me.

Yes, because I think so much when we do go through, suffer.

Regardless of how that comes into our life, it's a very

isolating experience, isn't it?

And and sometimes there's not language for the suffering and people who

haven't walked that path, or perhaps they, they mean well, but there's

people who fail us in our suffering.

And so that can cause people, and I've seen this to isolate

more and more, and I just love.

What you're doing through heartfelt because, and I just, and I also just

love the way you are keeping, I guess, Vernique spirit alive through her loving

cooking the cafe, but you're creating a place where people can come to take

a photo and, and put it on that wall.

Yes.

It's.

Beautiful.

It's just really, really beautiful and, and such a powerful gift for

those people who, who are suffering.

And I'm, I'm interested before, cause I'd love to talk a little

bit more about heartfelt Yeah.

As well and to promote that.

But for people who are walking through grief, I mean, you are talking about

it now and, and obviously it's obvious.

Where you are today is not for lack of struggle and, and sadness and probably

trying to get up outta bed each day, but what would you say to people who

are in that position at early grief?

Um, just what help, because, you know, someone might look at you now and

think, wow, like, you've come so far.

I'm so far from that.

Like I, my whole body, like you said, it affects your body.

Yeah, just I guess your experience and that it is that rollercoaster, isn't it?

Oh, it is.

You know, like waves crashing, you know, like back and falls.

It's like the seasons, you know, in, sometimes it's right one day fall season,

it's, you know, anything could trigger you, you know, like, um, even, you know,

going to, um, a girlfriend's daughter's wedding, you think, well, I'm not gonna

say I'm not gonna experience this.

Um, it could be anything.

I find it hard to go into.

Girls stores that have kids for like teenagers or young girls.

Cuz I think, oh, I used to go in here all the time.

I, I don't have anyone anymore to, you know, to even.

Be excited about dressing, you know, your daughter, like, I don't have, I don't

even more is I don't have a girl anymore.

Like, does that make sense?

I don't have that community of what a, what a girl brings to a household and the

community that you know is with cooking.

And she's to help me fold sheets and she's having her friends over

and sleepovers and you know, that girly stuff's, she's just gone.

The whole community goes with a person and not everyone's of faith.

And sometimes I say to people, well, if I've got it wrong, so.

I, I've been able to get up outta bed with my suffering and continue.

And if I've got it wrong, I've got it wrong.

But if I've got it right, wow.

Right.

But I think what's key for anybody who's suffering form of grief, loss of

someone, any kind of grief, if you can have some accompaniment, have somebody,

because that's what I got out of Grief Care, which are part of Catholic Centers

and Cator, they accompany families.

You know, up until the funeral, everyone's on an adrenaline.

Everyone's coming to help you.

What do you need?

Da da.

And then after that, it's like still waters.

And you are sitting on that dinner table and there's a person missing.

You are in the car and you're ho.

You're driving one to school and you don't get to drive the other one.

You make one lunch box and not the other one.

It all changes.

So accompanying someone not being on your own, if you could just be able to connect

in some way to someone or a community.

As hard, as hard as it is, I encourage that because that's what helped me.

The company and the community around me helped me.

Helped me get up.

My faith helped me get up.

If you are of faith, you know, I really hope that you make the

choice to, to lean on your faith.

Doesn't matter what faith it is, and, you know, professional help if you can.

You know, our, our tragedy was so public as you, as you called out right

at the beginning, Karen, but, um, when it's not, you do suffer in silence and

there are so many people out there.

But if you can also get some, you know, professional mental health

help for your wellbeing, whatever that might be, it's very critical.

And I, and I, you know, you mind, your body, your soul all needs to be nurtured.

And I'd also like to just call out people you know in the community that if you do

know somebody in your community who has been through loss or who's going through

suffering, just to get around them.

Because I know so many people, a friend of mine, you know, there was

anniversary that came around of her child for the second year and there was

not that many people that made contact.

I, I just, I don't wanna encourage people and the worst you can do,

some people hold back because they don't wanna upset or offend.

Whereas I've never been that kind of person.

I'm always like, it's better to have said something and someone

to say, oh, that's a bit much than to have left that void for people.

Oh, absolutely can.

I mean, we, we don't speak grief.

Uh, we live in a society.

It's countercultural to speak grief.

It's countercultural to cry.

If you cry, you say, sorry.

Um, if you laugh, it's okay.

And it's not really Okay.

They're all, both emotions and I, I, you know, sometimes I, I, I, that's what I

feel like my path is in life to be that sort of wounded healer to call people who.

Don't have anyone to, to speak to them and or they need a phone

call from someone who's gone through what they've gone through.

And I, I know how you feel, or I've been through what you've been

through, maybe a little bit different, but I, I can appreciate your pain.

I, I like to do that and I always look out, well when the, and I've

quite a few people lost children last year that I, I was aware of and.

I always make, find a way to get their phone number and to call them.

And sometimes I've had no, you know, they've just shut down completely.

They don't wanna see anyone and that's fine.

But I do recommend that you try not to do that because it, it just

manifests into all sorts of other things that are long-term and

damaging as opposed to at least having someone just reach out to you.

Um, absolutely.

But others welcome the, the visit.

They welcome the phone call.

And that's what heartfelt does.

You know, it it, it brings that community together and, and I feel like by leading

heart, by creating heartfelt leading, it, it, it's, it has a, it has such a purpose

in life because everybody has, nobody's exempt from suffering and we've all, the

price you pay for loving someone is grief.

It will be, we all will go through grief in our life.

We'll all lose someone one day that we love and we love dearly.

And what a way to prepare ourselves.

If we can be around people who, who can, who can catch us.

It's, uh, I know back, um, many years ago now, I worked as an

oncology palliative care nurse at.

Wow.

St.

George Hospital in Congre, and it was honestly one of the most sacred.

I think having my children was very sacred, but walking

someone home to Heaven's Door was such a sacred experience.

And we are really blessed that a lot of the nurses on our ward were Christian.

And there was a book we read called, may I Walk You Home?

And there was another one that had the picture of the theater on the front,

and it's Mary Holding Jesus, Jesus.

And, and the whole theory that we started to adopt in our nursing was

this, that when someone's life feels like it's being blown apart by grief

and tragedy, that just to get around them and to hold them, whether that's

a physical embrace or just a note.

But as nurses, we would often bring two beds together and, and people who

had no one in their final moments.

We do things like get up on their bed and just, just hold them.

And that's how that's be.

It really was really sacred that you just, I don't know, as people, if we are

carrying Christ's image with us, that we are called to bring him to the people

that we meet and the people we encounter.

And I think we have a fear around grief in our culture, the western world.

We have a fear.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It makes us people incredibly uncomfortable and I, I just,

I've seen it up close friends that have lost children that.

Get in people's space.

Don't be afraid.

I would would like to say to all women listening to this, that just think right

now on this pod as you're listening to this podcast about someone, whether

they've lost someone or not, or someone just going through a difficult time, we

get caught up in our own busyness, but we forget what, just a little note or

a text or a call or a post, a letter or offering a babysitting or a visit can do.

Just goes a long way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, I.

So many people do suffer in silence, and I don't, I think as humans we try

and sometimes, like I, I remember once I was coming outta the doctor's, um,

surgery as in the city and, and, um, I saw someone that I've known for a long time.

Uh, it was a CEO of, of, of a bank actually.

Um, and when you saw me kind of hit behind the pole, I dunno

if I've told you this story.

No, I went, oh dear.

So I walk.

And I said, oh, such and such, why are you hiding behind a pole?

Cause I just dunno what to say to you.

I just dunno what to say to you.

I said, well, you can gimme a hug.

Let's start there.

And um, that's the thing, a lot of people a dunno what to say to you.

Or if they do they go, um, can I, I don't mean to, I think upset you.

It's like for me it's like, well, my daughter lived this earth.

Um, why are we afraid to mention her name?

And I think it's about not wanting.

Hurt me or, or remind me of the pain.

But you're always in that pain.

You live in pain.

That, that, that, that, that, um, that pain is constant.

It's your gut always feels not right, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Um, but you've made a choice to get up and do things and.

Whether you mention her name or you don't, it's actually, I find it harder

when you don't, because you're actually, I know it's the elephant in the room.

Why aren't you mentioning my daughter's name?

Um, and I think we speak about our loved ones and we can change the culture of,

of, of the western world, especially.

That's the whole thing about heartfelt, about honoring your loved one, you

know, talking about your loved one.

Um, and, you know, there's no gr there's no advice or counseling or judgment.

It's just your round of people at the moment with getting a community of

faith in the presence of one another in your own home on a Monday night.

Um, and it's being able to talk about that person that you, that you love so much.

Yeah.

And your daughter was so beautiful.

She just radiated joy.

Yeah.

Didn't, she's just Absolutely.

She was, yeah.

Full of life.

She was stoic.

Um, she, you know, she loved people.

Um, she was not attached to anything material.

And I say that because I, she never opened up present.

Uh, she didn't really, it's always around being with people, cooking, um, animals.

She loved dogs.

Um, she was witchy.

She had a great sense of humor.

She could read between the lines.

Um, and every day, I, I mean, I, I, I know, I feel there's

such a, you know, something huge is missing in my life every.

And my son, you know, he feels it as my son and my husband feels

it as my husband, but no one, no one's gonna fill Veronique's shoes.

And like I said, I feel like my hole is so deep because it's fact that I don't

have that girl anymore around the house.

And I, I don't know what girls her age and love and like doing, so I'm, you

know, I know I'm missing something.

But you know, the other beauty is that her friends invite me

to their daughter's birthdays.

Um, her, you know, and I'm still connected to the school and the fact that I've got

that connection, um, and I can go to their birthday parties as much as a, it's, it's,

you know, a punch in your gut watching, like going, wow, what, you know, I'm here.

Wow.

Like, but my daughter's missing, or, she's not here, she's

actually physics spiritually here.

What would she look like?

And I tell, I ask them all the time, and they go, well, Brunick

would look like this, this, this, you know, she'd be wearing this

and have her hair like this, and.

And for Veronique's birthday, I had all her friends from school at the cafe.

We had a morning tea because I wanna see them grow.

I wanna be part of their life.

I don't wanna, I don't want Veronique to be, um, a distant memory.

I want her to be part of their, you know, we're gonna get a Veronique's

birthday again this year, you know, even though she's not here physically.

So I'm trying to create a culture that your spirit lives on.

Don't shut it.

And, um, yeah, that's what heartfelt is about.

It's, it's about bringing people together.

Yeah.

So can you tell me a little bit more about how people might get involved,

um, how they might receive support?

Is that purely a Sydney based thing or is that No, no, it's

actually, well, it's online.

Um, it's, it's, uh, so it, I've got a website, heartfelt.community, um, and

you go on and, um, it sort of, There's a button where you can get started and I'll

ask you a few questions and then your details come to me via email and I'll

pick up the phone and I'll call and just try and understand, you know, your story.

Um, and if I can't help in any way, then I always connect with grief

care cuz I've got professional.

Yes.

You know, I, I, I live, I live grief and my experience is what I try and.

To help others, but they're professional experts in the grief space.

So that if I can't, if I think it's too much, and I as in for them, and, and then

I explain what we do, and basically every Monday night, well, there's 150 people

in the community now, but every Monday night, um, you know, we, there's a theme.

So at the moment, it, it's faith-based.

It follows the, the, the Catholic calendar at the moment.

Um, but I wanna grow it that we have a night worth of people who.

Don't have a denomination, but if you are of faith, you're of

Christian faith, you come on.

Um, and at the moment, obviously it's the journey through Lent.

So every week there's a theme, um, and the theme, um, is broke, broken up.

Uh, we break open that theme, uh, through scripture.

So last week was about obviously lazare.

Yes.

Arising, you know, and what does that, what does that mean?

And, you know, Jesus cried.

Um, he grieved.

And, you know, we bring, we bring the, I broke open for a reflection.

Um, and then we have a, a bit of a video, two, three minute video.

Um, I do leverage resources from grief care.

And then, um, I'll have, pick a few questions and we, we have the breakout

rooms for about 20, 25 minutes.

Four or five people in a room and talk those questions.

And people have got to know each other really well.

Now it's been going for, um, two and a half years and people come on at

different times of their grief journey.

And they leave.

They don't have to, they're not there for two and a half years.

They'll come on for six months.

They might come on for a month.

They might come on for two years.

But it is a good community.

Um, and then we have a a a a A blessing, and then we have

a song, it goes for an hour.

Um, and, you know, I've got a block.

Everyone that comes on, I get their permission to get them.

I on mobile number so that, you know, we put it on, I put it on a WhatsApp

group, and every, every week I told them the theme of the following week, and.

Yeah, people, people love it.

They just love being in their own home, in their own space.

It's meditative.

Yeah.

So I get them in a prayer, a state of prayer.

Uh, we do meditation.

Um, we've got a feelings.

Will you c you're allowed to, you know, if you'd like to explain a

couple of words how you're feeling.

Um, and you know, Michael, who, uh, colleague of mine, um, who I met, you

know, after Brun, Um, who runs the cafe, uh, is a partner in our cafe as well.

He does all the presentations and slides.

Grief care supports me with content.

Um, and yeah, every week there's a beautiful, beautiful program.

I had a spiritual director on there, um, who used to dial in from Rome.

And then the UK a lovely priest, um, father Dominic Jenkinson, and his,

his cousin is a family educator in.

Oh, there you go.

She used to be Renick's, um, at Renick school.

Um, and you know, he's been too, he is been a bit busy, but I do wanna

connect with another, another priest.

But yeah, it's, it's absolutely beautiful.

Um, that's amazing, Bridget.

Yeah, and I think, you know, we've had people who've lost their daughter

children, We've had people, um, mothers, there's three or four that come on.

Others will say husbands at a young age.

Parents, we've got someone who anticipates losing his mother.

She's in her late nineties.

We've got people with special needs that come on, um, ages from 18 up.

And I, I just, yeah.

And so the, the tagline if you go on the website, you know, heartfelt.community

is because love lives on, and that's what we have on the wall in the cafe.

Um, so it's all interconnected about.

Yes.

Honoring your loved one and, and, and, you know, creating, making sure

that that, you know, people feel they can talk about their loved one.

It's not a burden on anyone.

It goes kind of two ways people might go away.

I can't, you know, talk about my, you know, such and such where I, where

what I've struggled with is, you know, I used to always say to people,

well, how many kids do you have?

And now when someone asks me, I.

I kind of go, well, I've got two, but I explain one's in heaven, one's on Earth.

It's all, you know, sometimes I, that's the part where I struggle with, you

know, telling your story or introducing yourself and, you know, people go,

yeah, I'm a mother of this and I, I start, that's the part where I go,

okay, well I'm, I'm gonna talk now.

And it's, it's a hard conversation.

It, it, it, it pains me every time I talk about how many kids I've

got, because one's not with me.

She's doing so much great work, um, from above.

Um, and she's, you know, very proud of what we're doing.

And the day we, we actually, um, had family and friends come for

the opening of the cafe, which was the 8th of July last year.

A photo popped up on my mobile phone of her.

Um, she just cooked a meal for everyone and it was, you know, The table was

full of stuff, so I framed that photo and it's on top of the kitchen in

the, in the cafe, and that's telling, she was telling me, mom, I'm really

happy, I'm proud, and this is great.

Fantastic.

Bridget.

Honestly, I just wanna really thank you for your witness and the way

that you have walked this journey.

I know it's not, without it struggle still, it's still immensely, painfully

difficult, but it really is a gift and, and the number of people that have

emailed me from the Shalom Real Women's Series, just wanting to say thank

you Oh, um, to you, because for them, just to see someone that's actually.

Walk to that journey and being able to do it.

And, and it's, we hold that struggle alongside walking it with God's grace,

but, and it'ss not to negate the struggle, but it's to walk with Christ and, and to

pick up our cross and carry it with his grace and yeah, that's what you've done.

And let's not forgetting, he, his beautiful mother who watched him suffer

and carried herself with dignity and love and probably after the shock of

it all and watching her son, she had.

Round up the troops, you know, the, the disciples and apostles and probably

hold them together and, you know, just imagine her dead son in her arms.

Oh, can you think of the pain?

Like, but she got up and she kept going cuz she trusted

and she believed and I trust.

And I, um, you know, I think I've, you know, someone said to

me, you know, one of your family.

Sort of saying, well, how do you get up and smile and, you

know, still do this and that.

It's like, but this is, this is, this is all temporary.

This is, you know, this, there's a greater good out there and there is,

there is heaven, and I will see her again.

So why wouldn't I wanna make her proud and, and make God proud?

Because I, you know, hear that's what he, he he wants, he wants love.

He wants forgiveness.

He wants hope living.

That's what Easter's.

Yes it is.

The cross is about, cross is about.

Without the cross, I would never have seen Monique again.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well, Bridget, thank you so much.

You're a truly thank you, inspiring and your story.

Yeah, thank you for your vulnerability and thank you for gifting people

with your story because it's not easy to suffer publicly.

It's not easy to have that journey, but, uh, the number of people that you've

touched and the number of people you are helping, I just really wanna give thanks.

Thank you for your.

Thank God, thank you for wanting to, to share the story and be to, to be

interested in this, in it, and you know, it's, you, you, you, you're part of it

because you, you wanna get the message out there and that's, that's how God works.

Yes, he does.

Well, God bless you and your family.

God bless you.

Have a lovely weekend too.

What a sacred conversation.

I don't know about you, but I just feel so convicted about the role that

my faith plays in my life and how I'm living that out, but particularly in

this area of forgiveness and how I would respond if I was in the same shoes.

I guess it just begs the question of are we sewing every day?

Into our faith journey.

Are we cultivating that rich soil of our soul that would enable us to forgive

somebody if such a thing happened to us?

Once again, I just really would like to affirm Bridget and her family and their

yes to the Lord, their yes to forgiveness, because this is such a gift in the lives

of so many people who bear witness to it.

Ladies, if you.

Experiencing grief and loss or you know of others who are

walking that similar journey.

Can I encourage you to get connected with Bridget's community?

You can find that online, and I do really encourage you to check it out.

One of the gifts of technology is that we can support people who are living

remotely, so I really wanna encourage you to connect with that community or

another grief and loss community to help navigate through that journey.

Until next week, ladies, have a beautiful week and God bless.