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Lansing Community College's literary journal.

Writers, readers, scholars, publishing professionals, citizens of the world, gather here and chat about all things writing.

Hey there.

This is Melissa Ford Lucken, editor for.

The Washington Square Review.

I'm here today with Amanda Gatchall, and her story Sanctuary will be featured in our Summer 24 issue.

So, hey, Amanda.

Hi.

How are you?

I'm good.

I'm excited to be talking to you because you do a lot of cool stuff.

I'm excited to be here.

So tell us, how did you come to write the story Sanctuary?

So that one, I wrote that story.

I don't remember how many years ago it was.

It was, if I'm remembering right, I wrote it for one of my writing classes in college.

It was for a dystopian and post apocalyptic fiction class.

And I remember we did like a bunch of smaller prompts.

And then we had the assignment of like, okay, now write a dystopia.

And I had one of the prompts.

Like, we would read a couple of stories and then we would write a prompt based on, like, the common theme of those stories.

Like, I think for Sanctuary specifically, the theme was like, isolation and being in, like, an isolated place.

And there were.

I had this idea of, you know, these people living in this kind of isolated society underground.

And then I also had another idea in my head that was like, I want to write a story about a cute little robot.

That's what I want.

That's what I want to do.

It's what my heart wants.

And some way or another, I'm going to make it work.

I'm going to make this shoe fit.

And I did.

And so that's kind of where that story came from.

And it has been since I wrote it for that class, it's been through a couple of different iterations, you know, a lot of revision and rewriting things and taking things out and adding things in later.

And then I brought it up again for a publishing and editing course that I took where we assembled like a portfolio of some of our best work or what we think is our best work.

And then we would, like, peer review it to kind of get a taste of the publishing process, I guess.

And so after that class, I just started submitting this story everywhere and the rest is history.

All right, so I want to take a real quick detour.

Are there any cute robots that inspired you to make you, made you want to write a cute robot?

Man, I mean, I've always kind of loved cute little Robots, like, all, like, everybody knows that.

Knows me, knows that.

One of my favorite books from my childhood is.

It's called Sea Otto, and it's about, like, this robot that, like, I think he, like, he goes on a rocket ship and then, like, crashes on Earth, and he meets these two monkeys and they all become friends, and I don't know why.

I always loved it as a kid, and funnily enough, I guess another kind of robot that inspired me was, I believe it was at the time I wrote this story, my D and D character for the campaign I was in, he was a fun robot guy.

And I've always had a connection with him because I always loved writing stuff for him.

Only he's a little bit different from the robot in this story.

But I think definitely that's where my heart was at because that's what I was thinking about when I wasn't thinking about school.

So I think they kind of bled into each other a little bit.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Because the robot and Sanctuary is cute and sweet, and I think that that sweetness works really well in the setting, which is kind of.

It starts out kind of like, you know, sort of upbeat, but the further you get into it, you know, about the time you're halfway through, you realize it's all.

Is not cute and sweet.

And so the contrast between.

Yep.

Between the.

The robot and really what's going on makes it intense because one of the things I had been wondering about, but now I know the answer was, why did you choose to use a robot character instead of a human?

But now this is my book club question for you.

Okay, so why.

What is gained in the story by using a robot instead of a human?

Um, I don't know.

I think something that I like to explore in, you know, because I like to write sci fi most of the time.

That's mostly what I enjoy writing.

And I don't know, I think, like, in writing for, like, I mentioned, like, my robot character that I had for D and D and, you know, other stories that I've written.

I think that something that's always been kind of intriguing to me in media is, you know, a cre.

A being, I guess, that isn't fully organic or, you know, isn't like a fully a human like us.

But what makes us human isn't the fact that we have, you know, flesh and bones and blood flowing through our veins.

I think that a major part of, like, our humanity is being able to kind of recognize that, you know, you.

That you have complex feelings inside you.

Because I think Little one's journey in the story is kind of.

That they had this preconceived notion, and it was, this is the way things were, and it's great, and it's fine, and everybody's happy, and once they learn that, no, this is not the way it is, and it, you know, it actually, there's like a dark underbelly underneath everything.

And that's kind of a complex revelation to come to, that this person that you revered and adored for so long turns out to be hurting people.

And whether it's for what they perceive as a greater good or it's ultimately, you know, getting more people hurt, then that's kind of something you have to battle with.

And I just like the idea of I don't know, because in some ways, I'm still learning how to be a person.

Yes.

So I like writing characters that in some way, shape or form are still learning to be a person too.

I think we're all still learning to be people.

I sure hope so.

I'm way behind.

When you think about the theme of isolation, it's interesting that the robot is essentially isolated and becomes more isolated as we move into the story and they start to discover the consequences of the bigness of what they've discovered because we don't want to say what they've discovered.

Yeah, no spoilers here.

This is a spoiler free podcast.

That's right.

The interesting thing to me, in addition to the little robot, was the earth element.

So once I learned a little bit more about you, and I know now you have a science background in environmental science and biology.

So at the time you were taking the creative writing classes in, I'm guessing was undergrad, you were also studying science and biology.

So talk a little bit.

How did you decide to take creative writing along with those other things?

I mean, I always liked to write since I was a kid.

And, you know, I think everybody, or at least I had the aha moment of what I wanted to study in college, in high school.

Like when I took.

I took a marine science class in high school, and I thought, this is the coolest thing ever.

I just want to do.

Can we just do this all day?

And then it was like, oh, wait, I can do this all day if I go into an environmental science degree.

And I also took, I think in, like, one of my English classes, we did, like, a creative writing unit where we learned about the facets of creative writing.

And at the end, we wrote a short story, and everybody else was like, oh, that class.

That unit was difficult.

And I didn't find it interesting.

And I was like, man, that was the great English class would be perfect if it was just this, if we did this the whole time.

And I was thinking, you know, I can do creative writing in college too.

Only I wasn't 100% sure about going purely into an English degree because, you know, I'll, you know, I've met a lot of English people who do a lot with their English degrees, but I didn't think I could figure out something to do with my English degree where I could like reasonably sustain myself, if that makes sense.

So at first I was just going to take some creative writing classes on the side with my major.

And then I found out later that I could have a creative writing minor, which, you know, and I could have a minor.

It didn't have to be a minor that related to my major.

Like, you know, a lot of people did the same.

Like I had one classmate who did the flip of me where she was an English major and she minored in environmental science.

So that was always kind of interesting.

But yeah, I was really excited to.

I was like, I'm going to take these classes anyway, so I might as well get that extra feather in my cap for a creative writing minor.

Well, it seems to me, knowing what I know about you, that it worked in your favor because you've done some amazing science things.

Tell us a little bit about some of the research that you've done.

Oh man.

Where should I start?

Oh man.

Well, there's one with turtles and there's one with dolphins.

I don't know, I kind of got involved in a little bit of everything in undergrad.

So I should probably add, I went to College in St.

Augustine, which is one of the big reasons why I chose that school because it's right on the coast.

And I figured that that would create a lot of really good opportunities to get out on the water and do research and make connections in that way.

And you know, there was a mix of, you know, projects that were done within classes I had to take.

And there were some things where professors would send out mass emails and it'd be like, oh, if anybody's interested, reply to this email and we'll meet at this place on this time.

And you know, most of the time I would be like, you know what?

I have time that day.

I can go collect soil samples.

Let's do it.

And probably the most notable one was it was originally just going to be a week long study abroad trip for me, but it turned into like pretty much a Whole summer where I went to Bermuda.

And I.

Because I did this study, I was going to do the study abroad.

And then my.

One of the professors running the trip, who was also my academic advisor, she told me, like, you know, oh, we're recommending people because we have a partnership with, you know, scientists in Bermuda and researchers.

And, you know, they've been opening things up again after, because it was like right after Covid too.

And they, for the first time in like a year are bringing back interns.

And they were like, so can we, can I recommend you?

And I thought, yeah, that's really cool.

Let's do it.

And I did.

And I learned a lot and I did a lot of things.

And what were they studying?

It was.

I did.

I kind of liked to think that I was kind of a jack of all trades because I did a little bit of everything because my study abroad was because there was a snorkeling group and a scuba diving group.

And I am not scuba certified.

I'm too anxious to scuba dive.

And so I did snorkeling, which is really cool.

It was really cool and so beautiful.

And everybody in the snorkeling group had to pick, like a specific creature to study that we could see snorkeling.

And everybody else picked like, fish.

And I was like, first of all, I think I don't want to say fish are boring because they're not.

Fish are interesting.

But I feel like, I don't know, there are more interesting things that I could learn about, so.

And also, I wanted to pick something that couldn't like hide and swim away from me because I had never snorkeled in open water before that trip.

So I picked the fire sponge and I did a mini research project on the types of locations they prefer to be in.

Like, I looked at more developed areas, like docks and harbors and marinas versus like a reef that's like a 30 minute boat ride out from the mainland.

And I found that the sponges, they are way more prevalent on like, developed structures.

Like, I think there was one picture I took when we were looking at like yachts where there was just like a whole section of the dock was.

You would look down and it was just covered in sponges.

What do the sponges, what do they look like?

The fire sponge is like, it's a bright red kind of orangey sponge and it's called the fire sponge because if you touch it, it's not gonna, like, seriously hurt you, but it just like stings a little bit and burns.

That's why it's called the fire sponge because it'll burn you, but it's not like anything super dangerous.

It's just.

That's what it's also because it's, like, bright red.

And I remember when I saw pictures of it for the first time, because we did a research phase before we left, and I looked up pictures online, and I thought, there's no way that's real.

And it is real.

So was it the docs you said that were covered?

Yeah, closer to more developed areas was where I saw them the most.

And what do they eat?

Sponges are filter feeders.

So they kind of just sit there and take in, you know, microbes and minerals or whatever from the water.

Okay.

All right.

So you watched the sponges and wrote up about them.

And what else did you do in Bermuda?

I did my internship was with the Bermuda Aquarium.

So I got to.

We like.

The place where me and our other interns stayed was, like, right across the street from the aquarium.

So it was kind of cool to have a short little walk to work every day.

But I kind of got a taste of, like, kind of everything that would go on at the aquarium.

I helped with, you know, feeding the animals and, you know, cleaning different enclosures.

And occasionally someone would get a call about, like, an injured animal or, you know, something that they needed to check on or releasing an animal.

And, you know, we would go out on the boat and do that or go drive to wherever the animal was.

And I got a taste of a little bit of everything.

The things I remember the most, because they were the most consistent, was they had harbor seals that would be fed three times a day.

And it was kind of a.

It was like an educational thing.

It's like someone would stand where the people would be and talk to them about the seals while the rest of us would just be doing our thing.

And the thing I remember is that all three of those seals are kind of in their retirement era because they're kind of like old ladies at seals, because, fun fact, seals develop cataracts in their eyes over time because when they swim, they get the sun in their eyes.

And in the wild, typically, we don't see that because those seals get eaten before they finish up their natural lifespan.

But since those seals in Bermuda are in captivity, they get to live out the rest of their natural lifespan.

And so all it was kind of.

I don't know, it was interesting because I didn't realize it was a possibility, but, like, all three of those seals were.

They were all blind.

And I thought that was kind of fascinating because you could still tell them to do things like move from one pool to another or, you know, like twirl around, but it was just with like a movement of your hand or like a stick in the water.

And I don't know, I thought that was so fascinating because I'd never seen it before.

What do you think?

Sense?

Yeah.

What do you think drives your need?

Your.

Your need or your desire, Your longing to write?

Because like I said, you're obviously busy, you got lots to do, and you.

Come up with a very interesting question.

I like to use reading and writing as kind of a form of escapism because, you know, sometimes it's easier to jump into a fictional world than deal with your real problems.

But that's not always the best solution.

But I find myself doing it more often than not.

I don't know, I just like having all these fun ideas and then getting to share them with other people and kind of.

Because, I don't know, I think when I read other people's writing, I like that I can see a glimpse of them, like they put a bit of themselves into their work.

And I think it's interesting because it kind of creates a sense of, you know, everybody gets to see the world through someone else's eyes for a little bit.

And I think that, you know, I use it as a way to sometimes ignore my real world problems, but sometimes not.

Sometimes I just, you know, it's like I don't want to do laundry.

I want to write about, I don't know, a world with little robots dancing around.

I don't know.

Well, and you said earlier we were talking about, you know, kind of what it means to be human.

And so that's a possibility.

That.

That's something in the back of your mind is what doesn't, you know.

The other thing I was wondering is, you mentioned D and D.

Right.

So how long did you play that?

How much?

How often?

Yeah, I still play DD with my friends to this day because that's storytelling.

That's a strong storytelling influence.

Yeah, that's great.

The way I describe D and D to people who have never played before is.

I say it's collaborative storytelling because in reality, especially with the way me and my friends play, like we're not big on combat and all that.

We just like to make silly little characters and go to silly places and talk to other silly characters and do silly things we're not big into.

Like, combat is not interesting to us.

So over the years, we have kind of created this World where it's like, we can just hang out and, you know, do magic sometimes.

And that's it.

I've been playing D and D since my freshman year of undergrad.

And then it really picked up when Covid hit because we all couldn't go anywhere.

And my friend who is our current dm, she had a one shot for a club at our school that she was going to do, but then when everything shut down for Covid, she was like, amanda, I don't have anybody to run this.

And then I invited a bunch of my friends to play, and we kind of all became friends and we started playing.

And then it kind of.

Then it was a one shot that turned into one campaign.

And then the logical ending of that story came, and we were like, man, we don't really want to stop playing D and D with each other because it's fun.

How about we start another campaign in the same world with new characters?

And then we did that, and that campaign ended, and then we're in the campaign that we're in now.

When you think about your own creative writing, how does the D and D show up there?

Like, do you ever pull any themes or pieces of characters, anything like that over?

I mean, I think with, like I mentioned, I had my.

My robot guy, my robot character.

And a big part of his arc was kind of learning his place in the world beyond what he was built to do or what he thought he was built to do, because he was very.

He.

He was very sheltered.

Kind of in the same way Little One was, where he really hadn't been out in the world too much before, like, the main plot of the campaign, because, you know, for one reason or another, robots in that world were prejudiced against.

And so we kind of had to hide.

Only he didn't really realize the extent of that being an issue.

And so when finally he was like, man, I gotta go.

I gotta.

I gotta save my people.

Then he kind of.

He kind of relearned or he learned how the world worked.

And I kind of.

When I think about that character's experience in the time in my life that I was in, I think it's really interesting that in a way, I kind of had to relearn the world because, you know, after we all, you know, hid in our houses for the summer, and then it was like, come back to school.

Right?

I don't know.

It felt really different.

And it was definitely a culture shock in some ways.

But I think another thing that I take from playing D and D with my friends and putting into my writing is.

I don't know.

I think I have always tended to enjoy writing characters and writing character pieces rather than doing world building.

But I think D and D is definitely given me practice on that because I was a dungeon master once for a one shot that I wrote.

But I think I prefer being a player.

And I like.

I don't know, I like being able to get inside a character's head and go, okay, what would they do?

You know, in this situation?

I'm not me, I'm them.

And, you know, are they going to ensue chaos or are they going to follow the rules?

I don't know.

They know I don't.

And I think also working with other people and their characters or it's kind of shown me that, you know, seeing my friends create all these characters kind of helps me think about, you know, what types of characters would work well together, what types wouldn't.

What kind of conflict could happen that isn't necessarily caused by the world itself.

Because sometimes the most intriguing conflict can come from just two characters having a disagreement with each other or miscommunication.

And yeah, yeah, that's interesting because the two characters could be in a tavern or they could be by a coral reef.

But if it's a conflict between the two characters, the setting feeds in, but the tension is really coming from the two characters.

Exactly.

That's really interesting to think about.

What kind of creative stuff are you working on right now?

Oh, man, right now I like writing a little bit of poetry every now and again.

I really want to write a.

I want to do a short story collection that is a sci fi retellings of fairy tales.

Because there's another story that I wrote that I would consider a sister story to Sanctuary that is not published yet.

So I won't say anything about that just in case anybody in the future outside of my friends and family gets to read it.

But that story kind of tied in to like, I realized, like I was talking to my friends about it and then they were like, did you mean for this to be a retelling of this?

And I was like, no, I didn't.

But it's interesting that you thought that.

And then I realized that I have a couple of other ideas for stories for fairy tales that I would want to retell in the works because I think that I think old fairy tales are interesting.

And one of my best friends is.

We consider her our kind of our resident fairy tale expert because, you know, she knows all these old fairy tales and tells them to us all the time.

And I don't know, I just like writing sci fi and I like, I like the idea of having a basic framework of a story told like hundreds of years ago and keeping the same ideas right and then twisting them in a way.

Because something I really like, one of my favorite books series ever, is it's a unified plot between all the books, but it is a series of sci fi retellings.

And I always, when I read those books for the first time, I always thought it was so cool when I got to read a scene and then have the aha moment of, oh, this is the connection to the original story, only it's in this context.

And I always thought that was so cool.

And I was like, I want to do that with my work.

I want to give somebody else the aha moment.

That sounds great.

All right, so if people are interested in getting in touch with you, maybe so they can hear more about your collection when it comes out, you said that they can find you on LinkedIn.

Yes, I am on LinkedIn.

Oh yeah.

Sanctuary does have a Spotify playlist.

I should probably make that public.

Oh, yes.

So if you send us the link for that, will be sure to include that in the show notes so people can.

Oh, cool.

Of course.

Yeah, I'll happily do that because I've had that playlist for like years now.

Nice.

And now I can, I can finally.

And I've been listening to those songs and so I can show it off.

So yes, please do.

That sounds wonderful.

Thanks a lot for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having me.

This was so exciting.

I'm so excited to read the whole issue.

Awesome.

Thanks for stopping by the audio Town Square of the Washington Square Review.

Until next time, this has been the Washington Square on air from Lansing Community College.

To find out more about our writers, community and literary journal, visit lcc.

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