1 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,810 Damien Greathead: And we're back episode number two of strategy 2 00:00:09,810 --> 00:00:12,840 and the virtual controller. I was listening to a webcast the 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:18,090 other day penny. And they were saying that most podcasts rarely 4 00:00:18,090 --> 00:00:21,450 get beyond eight episodes. And I know one hour episode planning 5 00:00:21,450 --> 00:00:24,900 were well and truly beyond eight episodes. So I'm delighted to be 6 00:00:24,900 --> 00:00:27,600 here with you today for Episode Two how I say Penny, 7 00:00:27,750 --> 00:00:31,470 Rita Breslin: I'm doing fine, got my vaccine and ready to rock 8 00:00:31,470 --> 00:00:33,870 and roll out of town here in about a week or so. 9 00:00:34,290 --> 00:00:36,270 Damien Greathead: Getting back on the road after the vaccine. 10 00:00:36,270 --> 00:00:37,920 When was the last time you were on a plane? 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,410 Rita Breslin: flying back from India through Hong Kong and 12 00:00:43,410 --> 00:00:49,740 landing in San Diego in January of 2020. And having one of my 13 00:00:49,740 --> 00:00:54,210 sisters who worked at a at a hospital call me ago, I heard 14 00:00:54,210 --> 00:00:56,580 that you were in Asia. Yeah. chuckles Tell me what was going 15 00:00:56,580 --> 00:00:59,130 on. And I explained to get ready, this is going to get 16 00:00:59,130 --> 00:01:01,650 messy. Last time I was 17 00:01:04,829 --> 00:01:06,179 Damien Greathead: looking forward to getting back on a 18 00:01:06,179 --> 00:01:09,569 plane. My goodness, that's exciting. Yeah, because the 19 00:01:09,569 --> 00:01:12,839 world and particularly that the accounting world, which was 20 00:01:13,889 --> 00:01:18,419 spent on copy at conferences and visiting firms, and obviously 21 00:01:18,419 --> 00:01:22,169 visiting the firm in India, that was the norm. So not not doing 22 00:01:22,169 --> 00:01:24,899 that for 12 months, as has been a bit of a change, hasn't it? 23 00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:29,100 Rita Breslin: Yeah, and not having conferences for me, you 24 00:01:29,100 --> 00:01:33,510 know, virtual work was, you know, we do we did we live in? 25 00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:37,440 We will I mean, resume and Slack, you know, so either way, 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,820 we're aware, that wasn't a big deal. But still, you know, I'd 27 00:01:41,820 --> 00:01:46,800 narrowly I would have been over in India by now. And then, also, 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,310 we had, we had tickets booked for different conferences where 29 00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:56,130 my team was coming from India, United States. And because they 30 00:01:56,130 --> 00:01:59,760 come over here and get training, so it just, it was different. 31 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,350 And then also dealing with clients who, you know, all of a 32 00:02:04,350 --> 00:02:08,280 sudden, you've been wanting them, you got to get rich, just 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,610 in case, you know, and all of a sudden it had to happen had to 34 00:02:11,610 --> 00:02:14,820 happen. And that was that was an interesting endeavor. 35 00:02:15,780 --> 00:02:17,820 Damien Greathead: Yeah, we've come we've we've sort of 36 00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:20,550 interesting, we've been you. And I've been talking about a lot of 37 00:02:20,550 --> 00:02:25,920 these key key elements of this transformation for 10 plus 38 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:30,540 years. But it seems to take a global pandemic for for people 39 00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:34,620 to finally stand up and take notice and actually do a lot of 40 00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:36,510 the things that we've been talking about for a long time 41 00:02:36,510 --> 00:02:36,960 didn't. 42 00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:40,020 Rita Breslin: Yeah, and again, I think, I think one of the things 43 00:02:40,020 --> 00:02:43,110 that comes back as it cuts for us full circle, you can be 44 00:02:43,110 --> 00:02:47,040 virtual, and you can do a lot of things virtually, but you still 45 00:02:47,070 --> 00:02:49,740 have to have the first thing going for you. And that is 46 00:02:49,740 --> 00:02:54,960 relationship. Yeah. And, and so, you know, people are raring to 47 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,220 get back into it. There's all this Scot discussion about how 48 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:02,280 often we're going to go back, what's the new normal, you know, 49 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,910 all of that, but it's all about the thing that people have been 50 00:03:05,910 --> 00:03:10,470 missing is the relationship. And, and it doesn't just apply 51 00:03:10,470 --> 00:03:15,150 to a firm and their clients, it's within the firm internally, 52 00:03:16,350 --> 00:03:20,490 the relationships that get built, and the trust that gets 53 00:03:20,490 --> 00:03:27,540 built in a team that works together. And, and being able, 54 00:03:27,870 --> 00:03:30,720 having that trust in the first place. And going virtual, is a 55 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,700 far different cry than not maybe having it and then going 56 00:03:35,700 --> 00:03:39,450 virtual. And that was definitely a discussion I had with the firm 57 00:03:39,450 --> 00:03:43,290 this morning about how they've had that problem. 58 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:46,410 Damien Greathead: Yeah, and I'm looking forward to learning more 59 00:03:46,410 --> 00:03:48,270 about that, as we were discussing prepping for this 60 00:03:48,270 --> 00:03:50,670 episode. But before we do that, just a bit of housekeeping 61 00:03:50,670 --> 00:03:54,900 folks, the website for the podcast strategy, and the 62 00:03:54,900 --> 00:04:02,850 virtual controller is s a t v c.co. So sh t vc.co. Go there, 63 00:04:02,850 --> 00:04:06,330 you can obviously, like the episode review the episode, you 64 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:09,060 can find any articles because we'll be talking about the 65 00:04:09,060 --> 00:04:12,840 different books and different articles. You can find those and 66 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:18,060 links to all of those at that website as well. So sa t vc.co 67 00:04:18,270 --> 00:04:21,750 is the website for strategy and the virtual controller just 68 00:04:21,750 --> 00:04:25,050 wanted to remind listeners as well Penny about the sort of the 69 00:04:25,050 --> 00:04:29,490 premise of what we built the podcast on and it was the book 70 00:04:29,490 --> 00:04:32,460 by David maister, which is called strategy in the fat 71 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:36,180 smoker. And I think the most important part of the title is 72 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:40,890 the is the subtitle that is doing what's obvious, but not 73 00:04:40,890 --> 00:04:45,570 easy. And so a quick a quick overview of the book is 74 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,900 regarding the often or even usually know what we should be 75 00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:52,350 doing in both our personal and professional lives. We also know 76 00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:55,020 why we should be doing it and how often so we know these 77 00:04:55,020 --> 00:04:58,590 things. And the same is true in our firms, the things that we 78 00:04:58,590 --> 00:05:01,920 should be doing and Why we should be doing it. So figuring 79 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,890 all that out, it's not too difficult. What's the very hard 80 00:05:04,890 --> 00:05:07,920 part is actually doing what you know, to be good for you in the 81 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,990 long run in spite of short run temptations. And so what we're 82 00:05:12,990 --> 00:05:18,240 really talking about is, we know the strategies that they're out 83 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,350 there in the ether, in in books and on websites and in podcasts. 84 00:05:22,350 --> 00:05:27,660 And in webinars. Now, it's the actual hard part of choosing 85 00:05:27,660 --> 00:05:31,560 which strategies you want to pursue, identifying which ones 86 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,850 are going to be good for you in the long run, and then doing the 87 00:05:35,850 --> 00:05:38,670 hard work to get them implemented. So if you haven't 88 00:05:38,670 --> 00:05:43,140 read strategy in the fat smoker, really great book. And again, 89 00:05:43,140 --> 00:05:46,950 you can find the link on the podcast website, which is sa 90 00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:52,260 tvc.co. You can find the link there and order that off Amazon. 91 00:05:52,260 --> 00:05:56,880 But a really fascinating read about we know what's obvious to 92 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,410 do for ourselves for our firm, but actually doing it day in 93 00:06:01,410 --> 00:06:05,460 day, day out for the long run. That's the really difficult 94 00:06:05,460 --> 00:06:08,940 part. So have a read of his book. And that will give you a 95 00:06:08,940 --> 00:06:12,990 little bit of inspiration to come on this journey with us. So 96 00:06:12,990 --> 00:06:16,560 Penny, while we're here, sort of talking a little bit about us a 97 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,410 little bit about the podcast, your company's called money, 98 00:06:19,410 --> 00:06:23,250 Penny, tell us who you are, what you do, and who were the types 99 00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:24,660 of clients that you work with? 100 00:06:25,650 --> 00:06:31,020 Rita Breslin: Well, let's see, I am a facilitator between 101 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:38,700 accounting firms, bookkeeping firms, and an outsourced back 102 00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:43,020 office full of trained accountants who know how to run 103 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:48,390 just about every not American based in some other outside 104 00:06:48,390 --> 00:06:54,120 North America based accounting programs and tax programs. We do 105 00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:58,650 that, plus we test apps, integrating two accounting 106 00:06:58,650 --> 00:06:59,190 programs. 107 00:07:00,570 --> 00:07:04,440 Damien Greathead: And fundamentally, what you're doing 108 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:09,870 is you're helping firms with the process with their workflow with 109 00:07:09,900 --> 00:07:16,860 the automate level of automation, and then bringing in 110 00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:20,220 the right resources to load balances. That's a fair way. 111 00:07:20,910 --> 00:07:23,250 Rita Breslin: How do you insource the work? And then how 112 00:07:23,250 --> 00:07:26,340 do you prep it so that the people on your team, whether 113 00:07:26,340 --> 00:07:29,850 they're internal to your office, or external to your office, or 114 00:07:29,850 --> 00:07:34,230 they're an app? How does that all flow together to get an end 115 00:07:34,230 --> 00:07:37,590 result for the client end result is you have a good relationship 116 00:07:37,590 --> 00:07:40,260 with the client? And you're doing value added work for the 117 00:07:40,260 --> 00:07:40,650 client? 118 00:07:42,570 --> 00:07:44,190 Damien Greathead: What do you mean by insource? The 119 00:07:44,190 --> 00:07:49,950 Rita Breslin: work, okay, you got a client? And you need to, 120 00:07:51,030 --> 00:07:53,550 if you're going to, you got to decide who's going to run the 121 00:07:53,550 --> 00:07:56,580 company. Okay, let's call it a business because it is a 122 00:07:56,580 --> 00:08:00,120 business. Yep, this is Apple's to do some type of accounting. 123 00:08:00,420 --> 00:08:03,660 So you who's going to run your business? You are the client, 124 00:08:04,020 --> 00:08:09,780 you are the employees, you are the apps? Who's gonna run it? 125 00:08:10,110 --> 00:08:15,210 And who's gonna make the decision on how all of that is 126 00:08:15,210 --> 00:08:20,700 going to happen? And what's the backup strategy when it fails? 127 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:28,440 because nothing's perfect. So that's, that's what I work at. 128 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,910 Because I've got it, I've got to insource the work to me, and to 129 00:08:32,910 --> 00:08:37,560 my team. So in order for that to happen efficiently, you've got 130 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:41,340 to insource it to your office efficiently. So I start with 131 00:08:41,550 --> 00:08:48,120 that first, then, once that's moving smoothly, if you need us, 132 00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:53,820 we're there, then we build the team to match the needs of that 133 00:08:53,820 --> 00:08:54,210 firm. 134 00:08:55,980 --> 00:08:59,130 Damien Greathead: Okay, and what I was thinking in terms of what 135 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:02,820 is insourcing, it's essentially going to your clients, your 136 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:05,580 small, medium sized business clients and saying to them, 137 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:09,060 you're experts at making widgets, whatever those widgets 138 00:09:09,060 --> 00:09:12,810 may be, we're experts at accounting. So we will take off 139 00:09:12,810 --> 00:09:16,440 that accounting function off your hands off your plate, get 140 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,680 that done for you, so that you can use your very limited 141 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:25,350 resources for to focus on what you do best. And I think that's 142 00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:28,710 really a part of it as well, isn't it is when we're in the 143 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:32,700 business of accounting, that's what we do best. So let us work 144 00:09:32,700 --> 00:09:36,330 with your business so that you can focus on on making the 145 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:41,670 widgets and doing what you do best, and we will insource that, 146 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,400 that accounting function for you. 147 00:09:44,669 --> 00:09:47,159 Rita Breslin: Yeah, but if you do that, you have to decide 148 00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:48,539 that's what you really want to do. 149 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:50,010 Damien Greathead: Yeah, 150 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,640 I mean, good point. Yeah. Because that's true. Because 151 00:09:53,850 --> 00:09:56,400 businesses that do accounting there's a couple of different 152 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,660 things that they can they can do. Isn't isn't their job. They 153 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:03,660 can be a tax practice, they can be a payroll firm, they can be a 154 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:06,149 what's hard 155 00:10:06,210 --> 00:10:07,860 Rita Breslin: and a lot of an audit for them? 156 00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:08,850 Damien Greathead: Yeah, absolutely, 157 00:10:09,419 --> 00:10:11,639 Rita Breslin: they could do a, you got to make that decision, 158 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:14,399 they could be off just I just want to do after the fact, 159 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:18,389 bookkeeping, I want to just sit here and do that, you got to, 160 00:10:18,779 --> 00:10:23,639 this is something that if you want to do it, and you want to 161 00:10:23,879 --> 00:10:27,689 present to your client that you're going to do it, it has to 162 00:10:27,719 --> 00:10:33,749 it, you've made a promise it has to work, it, it actually has to 163 00:10:33,749 --> 00:10:39,419 happen, that you can't just put out there, we are a firm of the 164 00:10:39,419 --> 00:10:46,919 future, an advisory firm, we are a you know, fractional CFO, 165 00:10:48,509 --> 00:10:52,829 there has to be some give back to the client, the if you're 166 00:10:52,829 --> 00:10:56,069 going to do that, if you're going to say, give me all that 167 00:10:56,069 --> 00:11:00,749 stuff, you go make your widgets, you go sell your services, you 168 00:11:00,749 --> 00:11:03,659 go do whatever it is that you do, and I'll take care of all of 169 00:11:03,659 --> 00:11:09,959 this, then there has to be some reason, and that they would give 170 00:11:09,959 --> 00:11:14,219 it to you, that supersedes what they perceive is them being able 171 00:11:14,219 --> 00:11:18,989 to do it internally and control it internally. Because they're 172 00:11:18,989 --> 00:11:22,349 giving up a lot with the expectation of getting something 173 00:11:22,349 --> 00:11:26,219 important back that makes it worthwhile for them to, you 174 00:11:26,219 --> 00:11:29,699 know, follow your rules to get the stuff coming in. 175 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,920 Damien Greathead: And I think that's the trap that a lot of 176 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,180 firms make isn't fall into rather, is that they become the 177 00:11:36,180 --> 00:11:40,380 generalists across everything. As they're trying to grow their 178 00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:45,180 business and and and shore up their revenue, they take on 179 00:11:45,180 --> 00:11:47,670 anything, they take on everything, they take on a bit 180 00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:50,040 of bookkeeping, they take on a bit of tax, they take on a bit 181 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,330 of payroll, depending on what they are, they may not take on 182 00:11:54,330 --> 00:11:58,920 audit, but I have seen firms that will though the the name 183 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,990 sort of grows from accountants to accountants and advisors, and 184 00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:07,770 all of a sudden, you go to their website and there's this long 185 00:12:07,770 --> 00:12:10,200 laundry list of every single service that they've ever 186 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,730 provided. Never really become an expert in one and and so I think 187 00:12:14,970 --> 00:12:19,890 that really is the the topic of today's conversation becoming 188 00:12:19,890 --> 00:12:24,870 laser focused on what it is that you want to do. And also being 189 00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:29,070 comfortable with this idea of this is not this is not what I 190 00:12:29,070 --> 00:12:32,940 want to do. Yes. And and making that delineation. So Penny, 191 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:35,520 what's your sort of experiences in the firm's that you've worked 192 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:41,310 with, in terms of firms that have quickly and easily or not, 193 00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:44,190 maybe not quickly, but have identified who they are and what 194 00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:46,530 they want to be when they grow up versus others? 195 00:12:47,250 --> 00:12:51,390 Rita Breslin: Well, it, it's, I think it's obviously easier for 196 00:12:51,390 --> 00:12:56,430 a newer startup, you know, mainly because they come into 197 00:12:56,430 --> 00:13:03,180 the game in the middle of this can highly connected world with 198 00:13:03,510 --> 00:13:10,050 lots and lots of good quality apps and training from those 199 00:13:10,050 --> 00:13:17,280 apps to assist them. And moving along. The decision making of 200 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,040 whether they're going to be an accounting firm, a bookkeeping 201 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:27,510 firm, are a virtual controller, our partial CFO, fractional CFO, 202 00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:32,070 those are much easier. And it goes along smoothly with those 203 00:13:32,070 --> 00:13:37,470 folks. They start with us small. And then before you know it, 204 00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:40,770 they're just throwing work at us like crazy, because they 205 00:13:40,770 --> 00:13:43,500 actually have the relationship with the client, they went into 206 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:48,060 with that idea. It's much more difficult, I think for firms 207 00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:51,300 that are already well established with especially if 208 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:55,200 they do all of those things that you brought in the priority 209 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:01,560 silo, the firm. And by siloing it the adoption of something 210 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:09,330 that is transparent, such as a workflow tasking application is 211 00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:13,860 difficult for them to accept. And so it's just it's kind of 212 00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:17,040 like, well, these are my clients, and I like them this 213 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,000 way. And I do it this way. Yeah, but the firm wants to do it. We 214 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,710 want to do this fractional CFO, and you know, we can't do it 215 00:14:25,770 --> 00:14:28,410 without everybody being involved. So you kind of have 216 00:14:28,410 --> 00:14:34,080 to, if you're the firm partner, or partners, owners, you first 217 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:41,820 have to decide, do you want to do this? And what is this? What 218 00:14:41,820 --> 00:14:47,340 is it that you define as your fractional CFO controller client 219 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:52,350 advisory? What's your definition of it? What do you what do you 220 00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:59,040 picture you doing that makes that so special? What's what is 221 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:04,260 the deliver of Well, that you plan on giving to that client. 222 00:15:05,550 --> 00:15:09,810 I'm working right now with the firm that has an idea in mind. 223 00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:12,930 And that they wanted, they go, Well, we got to get branded, we 224 00:15:12,930 --> 00:15:15,930 got, we got to get a logo, we got to get a website got and I 225 00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:18,150 said yes, you do you do. And here's, here's somebody will do 226 00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:20,040 that is because they came to me and I said, Okay, we've got 227 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,800 something to do that. I said, Now, all of that's being done, 228 00:15:22,830 --> 00:15:25,950 let's talk about what you're going to deliver. What is it 229 00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:29,400 that you're going to deliver, you got a nice idea. But you've 230 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,670 got to give the client something. And I don't mean like 231 00:15:32,970 --> 00:15:36,210 a piece of paper or anything. But you've got to give them a 232 00:15:36,210 --> 00:15:39,900 reason to want to come back every month, and do this again 233 00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:40,230 with you. 234 00:15:40,769 --> 00:15:42,539 Damien Greathead: And I think that's a really good point is 235 00:15:42,539 --> 00:15:46,469 that we will will touch the touch on this in another episode 236 00:15:46,469 --> 00:15:50,309 as well. But what is a fractional CFO? What is what is 237 00:15:50,309 --> 00:15:53,609 an advisor? What is an advisory? And I think a lot of small, 238 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,219 medium sized businesses, they all need these types of 239 00:15:56,219 --> 00:16:00,119 services, but they don't know why. And they don't know what 240 00:16:00,119 --> 00:16:04,079 they actually are like, I understand the benefit of a cash 241 00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:09,059 flow forecast. But do your small business owners? And do they 242 00:16:09,059 --> 00:16:10,859 really understand it? Do they 243 00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:13,379 Rita Breslin: do they why you why you need to have those 244 00:16:13,379 --> 00:16:18,029 documents, do it. And if they don't value it, if they don't 245 00:16:18,029 --> 00:16:20,399 understand it, they're not going to give it to you. And if 246 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:22,799 they're not going to give it to you, then your whole idea of 247 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:26,429 being a fractional CFO means you're not closing the books 248 00:16:26,429 --> 00:16:29,519 every month. Now you could say, well, you know, we're using 249 00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,369 QuickBooks and 00. And they don't close the books and like 250 00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:39,269 they do they do they create a monthly report. And and what's 251 00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:44,009 the value of that monthly report? Well, then you're 252 00:16:44,009 --> 00:16:46,859 looking at that report, right. And on a certain day, every 253 00:16:46,859 --> 00:16:49,709 month, you know, this client, their books are going to be 254 00:16:49,709 --> 00:16:52,499 done, they're going to be close. And you can guarantee those 255 00:16:52,499 --> 00:16:54,599 numbers and you can look at those numbers. And you can 256 00:16:54,599 --> 00:16:58,289 compare them to not only prior months, but you can compare them 257 00:16:58,289 --> 00:17:02,159 to what you now know about that client. Because you've had the 258 00:17:02,159 --> 00:17:06,869 time as the CFO to learn about the client, you've developed a 259 00:17:06,869 --> 00:17:10,529 relationship. So now you can talk to them about their 260 00:17:10,529 --> 00:17:17,639 business, not about a p&l or balance sheet. Which doesn't 261 00:17:17,639 --> 00:17:20,939 mean anything to them. It doesn't mean anything, unless 262 00:17:20,939 --> 00:17:23,189 the goal for a bank loan is something really, 263 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:25,290 Damien Greathead: yeah. And what are you 264 00:17:25,289 --> 00:17:27,779 Rita Breslin: providing? What's your deliverable? What is it 265 00:17:27,779 --> 00:17:31,889 that you do? That's so good, that somebody is going to pay 266 00:17:31,889 --> 00:17:37,559 you a reoccurring flat fee every month, and follow every rule and 267 00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:42,269 use every app that you give them the way you want them to use it? 268 00:17:42,869 --> 00:17:47,699 To make your life easier to be a CFO? What are you giving back? 269 00:17:48,029 --> 00:17:53,339 And that's where I have seen over and over again, the fail, 270 00:17:53,969 --> 00:17:57,149 and you go in and you get it you get you get it? somebody goes, 271 00:17:57,149 --> 00:18:00,059 Okay, we want you to do a bookkeeping, and you know, the 272 00:18:00,059 --> 00:18:02,909 books are okay, and we got all the feeds coming in. And we'll 273 00:18:02,909 --> 00:18:05,219 go in and we'll go, Yeah, but you haven't accepted anything 274 00:18:05,219 --> 00:18:07,619 from the feeds for the last four months. And nothing's been 275 00:18:07,619 --> 00:18:11,249 reconciled in this account for six months. And you're on your 276 00:18:11,249 --> 00:18:14,309 website saying that you're you're doing fractional CFO 277 00:18:14,309 --> 00:18:17,369 services, or you're doing client advisory services? What do you 278 00:18:17,369 --> 00:18:20,819 advise them on? And when? What was the deliverable that you 279 00:18:20,819 --> 00:18:26,609 gave them? And if they gave you that flat rate? How much time 280 00:18:26,609 --> 00:18:30,029 are you spending? Asking? Where is it? Where is it? Where is it 281 00:18:30,029 --> 00:18:34,439 and not getting it? used up? Even the modicum of profit, 282 00:18:34,439 --> 00:18:37,259 you're going to make off that flat rate, and you just didn't, 283 00:18:37,289 --> 00:18:40,589 everybody's just frustrated, and nobody's happy, and you're not 284 00:18:40,589 --> 00:18:41,639 doing what you want to do. 285 00:18:42,270 --> 00:18:43,800 Damien Greathead: And so basically, what's happening 286 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,820 there is that the clients not bought into this process of 287 00:18:47,820 --> 00:18:51,120 using the applications, the team's not bought into using the 288 00:18:51,210 --> 00:18:55,110 do it following the process, accepting the transactions, etc. 289 00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:58,950 Because they don't understand why they don't understand what 290 00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:01,890 the deliverable is. And I think I think a lot of firms over 291 00:19:01,890 --> 00:19:06,570 complicate it. I think, a lot of firms, a lot of firms, either 292 00:19:06,570 --> 00:19:12,240 overcomplicate it, and then combine that with old processes. 293 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:16,560 To your point. Yeah, to your point about we need to accept 294 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,090 the transactions on a regular basis on a daily basis on a 295 00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:24,780 weekly basis. You see a lot of firms that are that are trying 296 00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:27,660 to run this service, but only coming into a client's books 297 00:19:27,690 --> 00:19:30,750 once a month. And there's no way that you're going to be able to 298 00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:33,780 process all of the data at once a month, because that's what 299 00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:37,320 they used to do in there right updates when when it was just 300 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:41,070 half a day dedicated to a particular client. But to be 301 00:19:41,070 --> 00:19:43,440 successful it is you need to be in the clients books every 302 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,490 couple of days, don't you? 303 00:19:44,790 --> 00:19:46,290 Rita Breslin: Well, yeah, depending on the size of the 304 00:19:46,290 --> 00:19:49,860 client, you do, but you also need to be in them, if nothing 305 00:19:49,860 --> 00:19:53,220 else, just to get an understanding of the client. I 306 00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:57,570 mean, you if you're looking at a lot of data, once a month on a 307 00:19:57,570 --> 00:20:02,100 client, hey, you know, it was It's not unusual to get somebody 308 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:06,600 who has 300 transactions a day coming in, because all the feeds 309 00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:08,550 can because of the kind of business or I will see that all 310 00:20:08,550 --> 00:20:14,310 the time. How are you going to know if there's an issue that 311 00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:18,900 you need to deal with? Or bring up to the client? Or if there's 312 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:22,230 potential here, you know, maybe it's time for you to get a 401k. 313 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,200 Maybe it's time for you to open up a money market account, if 314 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,770 they're a smaller new startup business, maybe it's time that 315 00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:33,840 you know, you, you know, what, why, why is this? Why these 316 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,590 transactions so out of whack, compared to what we saw last 317 00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:40,080 month, or in like the last six months, 318 00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:43,350 Damien Greathead: the last time of your example, last time of 319 00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:46,440 Ramon Ramon, what are these every every couple of months, 320 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,860 there's a $10,000 transaction that's that that is being 321 00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:52,650 reported as income? What is that just being able to ask those 322 00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:53,070 questions, 323 00:20:53,099 --> 00:20:56,849 Rita Breslin: be able to ask that question. And, and if 324 00:20:56,849 --> 00:21:01,109 you're not in them on a regular basis, and it doesn't need to be 325 00:21:01,109 --> 00:21:04,079 you, if you're the if you're the partner owner, you are the 326 00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:07,349 person driving this inside you that has to be in there all the 327 00:21:07,349 --> 00:21:11,459 time. But certainly, if you've got a team, you your team is 328 00:21:11,459 --> 00:21:15,749 somebody is touching that clients books, enough to know 329 00:21:15,869 --> 00:21:20,819 the client, so that when you do talk to them, because you should 330 00:21:20,939 --> 00:21:23,609 as a deliverable, if you're going to be somebody's 331 00:21:23,609 --> 00:21:28,769 fractional CFO, client, advisor, controller, whatever you want, I 332 00:21:28,769 --> 00:21:32,699 sure as heck Hope you're talking to them every month, at minimum, 333 00:21:32,939 --> 00:21:39,209 at minimum, that you're speaking to them, one on one, you know 334 00:21:39,209 --> 00:21:45,749 that this is a in the days of COVID, either a virtual meeting, 335 00:21:45,929 --> 00:21:49,229 but certainly outside of that, and we get into the end of it 336 00:21:49,259 --> 00:21:52,469 Fingers crossed, that you actually meet with this person 337 00:21:52,589 --> 00:21:57,479 and this business, to you know, develop that relationship, and 338 00:21:57,479 --> 00:21:59,429 to get a feel for it. because let me tell you something, it's 339 00:21:59,429 --> 00:22:04,859 not always just in the numbers. It's It's, it's, it's, you know, 340 00:22:04,859 --> 00:22:08,159 you got to look at a person and see if they're sweating or not, 341 00:22:08,429 --> 00:22:13,799 and why. But if you're not doing that, you're really not doing 342 00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:18,419 what your website says you're doing. So admitted, sit down, we 343 00:22:18,449 --> 00:22:22,019 you know, in that, in that book, you know, I just I put here's a 344 00:22:22,019 --> 00:22:27,419 list of what the world considers client advisory in a general 345 00:22:27,479 --> 00:22:29,909 because it's different with every firm, but sit down and 346 00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:33,359 look at it. Here's all the things that you do in your firm. 347 00:22:33,959 --> 00:22:39,449 just list them. What is it that you really want to do? And I 348 00:22:39,449 --> 00:22:40,349 think that's what I do. 349 00:22:41,490 --> 00:22:43,980 Damien Greathead: Yeah, because it's easy to put on on your 350 00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:48,930 website, advisory or part time controller, or just add another 351 00:22:48,930 --> 00:22:53,490 line item to the to the exhaustive growing list on 352 00:22:53,609 --> 00:22:55,139 Rita Breslin: marketing people told you to do it. 353 00:22:55,410 --> 00:22:59,040 Damien Greathead: Yeah. But but the realization is to actually 354 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:05,190 do this successfully, you need time you need resources, you, 355 00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:09,120 you need to you need the clients. It's not just as easy 356 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,990 as putting it on our website. And we'll do it for one or two 357 00:23:12,990 --> 00:23:18,300 clients that request it, it really has to form a part of 358 00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:21,840 your core value proposition, doesn't it? And it actually 359 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,670 means letting go the few things because 360 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,710 Rita Breslin: because if you have if you got if you got your 361 00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:29,550 old stuff, your old processes, they're all means doing things. 362 00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:35,100 It's too damn easy to fall back into that. It's way too easy for 363 00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:38,340 somebody to come in and say, Yeah, but I'm not going to do it 364 00:23:38,340 --> 00:23:42,180 that way. It's way too easy to submitted, say, you have a 365 00:23:42,180 --> 00:23:46,950 client doesn't want to do that. It's, you know, it's, it's, it's 366 00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:51,360 just, you're either in for a penny in for a pump, if you got 367 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,700 to put it on your website. And if you're going to go to a 368 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:57,000 client, you're going to sell them CFO, fractional CFO 369 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,300 services or advisory services, then what are you going to 370 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,740 deliver, that makes it valuable enough for them to follow 371 00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:07,980 through on what you need for them to do all these apps that 372 00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:11,010 are out there? That and and I could go through a litany of 373 00:24:11,010 --> 00:24:14,250 them because we I did this morning with a client. It's like 374 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,630 if the client doesn't use these apps that you give them, then 375 00:24:19,020 --> 00:24:23,730 everything fails. Everything fails, sorry, sorry, you just 376 00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:27,030 bought an expensive app and you and you just spent a lot of time 377 00:24:27,030 --> 00:24:30,030 learning it and you gave it to a client and the client never used 378 00:24:30,030 --> 00:24:33,510 it. So you're back to picking up the phone and begging for 379 00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:39,480 something. What makes them want to use it is the fact that the 380 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:45,450 first time they use it, they get a yay from you and a piece of 381 00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:49,980 information that they did not know and you gave them some kind 382 00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:50,370 of value. 383 00:24:51,150 --> 00:24:54,180 Damien Greathead: And my classic example there Penny is when we 384 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:56,850 worked at when I worked at receipt bank and you talked we 385 00:24:56,850 --> 00:25:02,610 talked to her a number of firms The you're absolutely right that 386 00:25:02,610 --> 00:25:06,120 they would stumble at the first hurdle, which was getting the 387 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,000 app in their clients hands and getting their clients to use it 388 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,060 snapping pictures of the receipts of the of the bills as 389 00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:15,270 that and most importantly doing it as they're coming in. So 390 00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:17,520 while they're waiting for their coffee, snapping a picture of 391 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,450 it, as soon as the at&t bill comes in, snapping a picture of 392 00:25:21,450 --> 00:25:25,200 it, scanning it, forwarding it, whatever it is, and and when we 393 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,040 dug into it, the reason being it was the conversation that was 394 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,400 happening between the the accountant and the client. And 395 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,190 it typically went something like this and it was Penny, I need 396 00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:39,090 you to use this this app called receipt bank. Because it's going 397 00:25:39,090 --> 00:25:41,310 to make my life easier, it's going to get me all the 398 00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:48,540 information that I need to do my job. And almost immediately, you 399 00:25:48,540 --> 00:25:51,660 saw the the eyes roll back in the clients head because they're 400 00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:56,160 like, Wait, you're charging me a fortune. And now you're giving 401 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,220 me this stuff that I'm probably paying for to make your life 402 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:03,900 easier. I don't get it. I'm not bought into this, I you know, 403 00:26:03,930 --> 00:26:07,080 I'm not bought into this. Whereas the most successful 404 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,970 firms that we saw were, didn't really talk about our role. But 405 00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:13,650 they talked about the accountants role, but they 406 00:26:13,650 --> 00:26:17,520 talked about that deliverable. Penny, I need you to use this 407 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,600 app, because what it means is on the first day or the second day 408 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,300 of every month, we're going to be able to provide you with your 409 00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:29,340 p&l with your this month versus last month, we're able to 410 00:26:29,340 --> 00:26:34,140 provide you with your your month to date year to date reports 411 00:26:34,140 --> 00:26:37,380 that we're going to sit down and have a conversation about that 412 00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:41,520 was the deliverable. And that's what the client valued. And that 413 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,150 is what got the client engaged in this whole process and 414 00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:49,350 adoption of technology. So that's really important is 415 00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:53,280 understanding, Mr. Mrs. client, I need you to do a certain 416 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,230 activity back to your what's in it for me. And then here's why 417 00:26:58,230 --> 00:27:00,960 you need to do it. And it has nothing to do with me. But it 418 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,240 has everything to do with you and your business. 419 00:27:03,869 --> 00:27:06,989 Rita Breslin: I have to sometimes we take on direct 420 00:27:06,989 --> 00:27:12,539 businesses. And I've got two CFOs that have hired us to do 421 00:27:12,569 --> 00:27:18,209 and there were startups to get them started using and in one 422 00:27:18,209 --> 00:27:22,799 case, the guy didn't have any software in place, not 423 00:27:22,829 --> 00:27:27,899 whatsoever. And to get them to use the apps. It was it was 424 00:27:27,899 --> 00:27:32,159 always like, why should I do this? Okay, I would put them on 425 00:27:32,159 --> 00:27:35,999 a zoom meeting. And I would show them the workflow. And then I 426 00:27:35,999 --> 00:27:38,969 would show them, this is what you will get. And this is when 427 00:27:38,969 --> 00:27:45,959 you would get it. So in both cases, they they they each took 428 00:27:45,959 --> 00:27:49,859 different apps, the ones that I showed them, the good because 429 00:27:49,859 --> 00:27:53,129 they got what was comfortable for them in their company based 430 00:27:53,129 --> 00:27:57,929 on their employees. And the way they work. They both had were 431 00:27:57,929 --> 00:28:03,929 project based. They both had to track by project expenses and 432 00:28:03,929 --> 00:28:07,859 income. They both had a lot of similarities. But it was all in 433 00:28:07,859 --> 00:28:13,979 how they wanted to look at things. And it took a good one 434 00:28:13,979 --> 00:28:19,619 to two months of me playing around with stuff and showing 435 00:28:19,619 --> 00:28:22,919 him in every m it was always constantly, what's it going to 436 00:28:22,919 --> 00:28:26,999 look like for me? What am I going to get from this? How is 437 00:28:26,999 --> 00:28:30,449 this going to make my life easier? Her over and over and 438 00:28:30,449 --> 00:28:38,189 over again? And it was kind of like you? Oh, oh, and it? That's 439 00:28:38,189 --> 00:28:41,039 great. Oh my God, oh, you know, you get though you get that zoom 440 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,859 want and they would go that worked Perfect. Okay, put that 441 00:28:43,859 --> 00:28:48,659 together. And, you know, and this is I'm not, I'm not gonna 442 00:28:48,659 --> 00:28:52,859 do any of the accounting. When we're not responsible for 443 00:28:52,859 --> 00:28:55,559 anything other than making sure the data is in the right place. 444 00:28:55,649 --> 00:28:58,859 Here. We're just playing traffic cop. That's all we're doing. The 445 00:28:58,859 --> 00:29:03,929 CFO goes to companies, each of them has to provide a 446 00:29:03,929 --> 00:29:08,729 deliverable to their board every month. And we give it to them. 447 00:29:09,749 --> 00:29:14,519 And they manage the whole thing. But they are using the apps that 448 00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:19,139 we gave them 100% because they got what they needed. 449 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,720 Damien Greathead: And I think that's a really good point. 450 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,840 Actually, it's gonna take time, whether it's your clients, 451 00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:28,860 whether it's your team, it's going to take time and 452 00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:33,810 reinforcement and repetition, repetition, repetition. And I 453 00:29:33,810 --> 00:29:39,840 think a lot of again, I think someone will probably strike me 454 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,430 down for this. But I think the Intuit firm the future and a few 455 00:29:44,430 --> 00:29:47,220 of the sort of you've got to jump into advisory. I think 456 00:29:47,220 --> 00:29:49,680 they've done accountants and bookkeepers a bit of a 457 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,700 disservice because they've given this idea that if you build it, 458 00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:58,350 they will come that oh, I put it on the website and my clients 459 00:29:58,350 --> 00:30:02,400 will be falling over themselves. The older the surveys have said 460 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,520 small business clients want their accountant to give so that 461 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,490 they'll be falling over themselves to take up these 462 00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:13,980 services. But again, most small businesses don't really know 463 00:30:13,980 --> 00:30:17,940 what a CFO does. Most small business don't know what advisor 464 00:30:17,940 --> 00:30:21,270 is, most accounting firms don't know what advisor is, your team 465 00:30:21,270 --> 00:30:24,090 certainly doesn't know what's going on and how you're going to 466 00:30:24,090 --> 00:30:28,170 deliver it. So it is really important to get clear about who 467 00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:30,720 you are and what you're delivering, why you're 468 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,160 delivering it. And then you've got to drill it into into your 469 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,940 team, your partners, your clients, to get their buy into 470 00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:42,210 this process. I mean, I always remember the example of it took 471 00:30:42,210 --> 00:30:45,960 me a long time to get addicted to smoking, you had to be really 472 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,350 dedicated to get addicted to smoking. Because that first 473 00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:53,220 experience, there's no way that there's no way that if that 474 00:30:53,220 --> 00:31:00,270 anyone would continue to smoke. And so I don't think it's not 475 00:31:00,270 --> 00:31:05,040 the right, not the right analogy here. But repetition is really 476 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:12,030 critical. And that's why I think having clear clarity on who you 477 00:31:12,030 --> 00:31:15,720 are, and what you want to be is really, really important. And 478 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:15,840 you 479 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,810 Rita Breslin: don't have to do all of that. If it's not what 480 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,690 floats your boat, if it's not what gets you up out of bed in 481 00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:27,360 the morning, if you don't want to be that kind of firm. Okay, 482 00:31:27,690 --> 00:31:31,410 no problem, there's a lot out there that still needs to be 483 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,320 faced, like audit work and compliance work that needs to be 484 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:39,600 done. You don't have to be that. But if you want to be that, then 485 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,660 you have to focus on it. And then if you have other people 486 00:31:42,660 --> 00:31:46,410 working with you, be they partners or employees, you all 487 00:31:46,410 --> 00:31:50,550 have to talk the same language. Or everybody has to say the same 488 00:31:50,550 --> 00:31:53,520 thing with the CLI. Nobody can say, Don't worry, I'll take care 489 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,430 of that for you. And then backpedal on something and allow 490 00:31:56,430 --> 00:32:01,440 it to fall. If you're not, it's, it's everybody's got to be in on 491 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,490 this. Everybody has to be a team player, everybody. And I mean, 492 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,970 everybody. I don't mean just the accountants and bookkeepers in 493 00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:12,690 your firm. I mean, your administrative staff too. And 494 00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:18,330 the apps that you work, they all have to be fit into what you 495 00:32:18,330 --> 00:32:21,000 want. And there are a lot of apps out there. But if 496 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:27,150 something's working for you, and it's working via clients, then 497 00:32:27,390 --> 00:32:31,410 you don't you know, it doesn't hurt to have somebody that can 498 00:32:31,410 --> 00:32:35,190 look at new and upcoming apps, there's certainly changes that 499 00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:39,930 are occurring. But But still, if it's working, everybody should 500 00:32:39,930 --> 00:32:45,000 be in everybody, if you're going to have a workflow. Everybody 501 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,120 should be in the workflow. Oh, yeah. Whether whether they've 502 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,570 got an active client or not, whether they are actually 503 00:32:51,570 --> 00:32:54,660 working on a client, they could just be an admin staff, they 504 00:32:54,660 --> 00:32:58,530 could be just a high level CPA, who never really does any of 505 00:32:58,530 --> 00:33:02,100 that tasking. They got to be able to see what's going on. 506 00:33:02,790 --> 00:33:04,800 Damien Greathead: And how many times have you gone into a firm 507 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,260 where there's maybe three partners and three different 508 00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:08,730 ways to prepare a tax return? 509 00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:12,930 Rita Breslin: Oh, God, yeah. It doesn't, that's not going to 510 00:33:12,930 --> 00:33:18,630 work. In this kind of, of a world. Yes, that's what that 511 00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:21,630 that is not gonna work, you can do that if all you want to do is 512 00:33:21,630 --> 00:33:24,960 detect. And let me tell you, there are so many clients that 513 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,220 we have the just strictly bookkeeping firms, and they love 514 00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:32,220 having the relationship with the client, they send us all the 515 00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:34,740 traffic cop work to do they have the relationship with the 516 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:38,430 client. And invariably, I get calls, do you know a CPA just 517 00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:44,940 wants to do tax returns? Yes, it is, there is, if that's all you 518 00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:48,690 want to do. There's nothing wrong with it. And there's 519 00:33:48,690 --> 00:33:54,150 plenty of work out there to do it. So, like, you'll run into 520 00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:57,060 somebody got you know, I asked somebody who needs an audit, and 521 00:33:57,060 --> 00:34:00,990 I don't do that. And I don't want to do that. And so I need 522 00:34:00,990 --> 00:34:06,570 to connect with another firm that does that. So but because 523 00:34:06,570 --> 00:34:08,940 these are these are firms that have said this is what we're 524 00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:13,170 going to do. This is what we like to do. And everybody in the 525 00:34:13,170 --> 00:34:19,050 companies in on the plant, nobody goes off script. I did 526 00:34:19,050 --> 00:34:21,840 that comparison between the two firms, which place would you 527 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,830 rather work and and and the place that you know, everybody 528 00:34:25,830 --> 00:34:28,440 said raise the angle? Yeah, I want to work in that firm. I 529 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:34,050 could tell you she she plans this out. Every year she goes 530 00:34:34,050 --> 00:34:39,570 through a major planning and review with her team. Where are 531 00:34:39,570 --> 00:34:45,930 we at? How did we do not from a standpoint of of, you know, 532 00:34:45,930 --> 00:34:49,950 client stuff, but how did it work for you? How did how did 533 00:34:49,950 --> 00:34:53,250 using these tools work? Did you see anything that was different 534 00:34:53,250 --> 00:34:56,910 that could be better? Are we all on the same page. She brings 535 00:34:56,910 --> 00:35:02,280 them in constantly but once a year. She has a Big Huge week 536 00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:07,260 with her team, and it's away from the office. And it's always 537 00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:11,940 in a beautiful setting, whether it's in a resort somewhere, and 538 00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:15,000 they just sit down, and they have a good time being a team, 539 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,680 as well as working out, how did this work, what didn't work? And 540 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,490 then the last thing is, now, how did that work for the clients 541 00:35:23,490 --> 00:35:26,700 and what didn't work for the clients. So start with what you 542 00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:31,470 want, get a team that wants what you want, and agrees with it, 543 00:35:31,830 --> 00:35:34,890 and then go find clients that are willing to come along 544 00:35:34,890 --> 00:35:38,640 because they like what you gave them. I have another client who, 545 00:35:38,850 --> 00:35:44,100 who he, he's great, he's he's at a Texas Ed, you know, he's 546 00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:48,840 strict about what dates he wants each client's books closed, 547 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:53,400 because he has a meeting, and he has a set deliverable that he 548 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,870 gives to them. And he's, he's on it, man. He's like, it'll be 549 00:35:57,870 --> 00:36:01,290 slacking me, Hey, we got a day, they're gonna get this done yet, 550 00:36:01,290 --> 00:36:06,270 don't worry, we will cool Don't worry about and it just, he, he 551 00:36:06,270 --> 00:36:10,980 holds to it, he doesn't let it slide, we let him know, if we're 552 00:36:10,980 --> 00:36:13,200 running into a time issue because we're not getting 553 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,260 something that we need to complete it. He is on it with 554 00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:18,480 the client, hey, we're gonna have a meeting in three days, 555 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,150 you need to give me that information. Otherwise, I'm not 556 00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:23,520 going to be able to give you everything that we usually do. 557 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,780 You know, and all it took was a couple of times with clients to 558 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:31,230 tell them that. But the thing is, he gave them that 559 00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:31,830 deliverable? 560 00:36:32,670 --> 00:36:35,580 Damien Greathead: Exactly a bit because that the client 561 00:36:35,580 --> 00:36:38,520 experience that they had the conversation about this month 562 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,840 versus last month, or whatever happens in that meeting. And I'm 563 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,510 assuming the clients perceived a little bit of value in that 564 00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:48,870 meeting, which was enough of that, that dopamine, if you 565 00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:52,410 will, to be like, Oh, yes, we're gonna get addicted to this, 566 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,020 because this helps us make better decisions in our 567 00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:55,830 business. 568 00:36:55,890 --> 00:36:58,260 Rita Breslin: Oh, yeah, they're on a board of all of his 569 00:36:58,260 --> 00:37:01,350 clients, there are quite a few that we noticed that the amount 570 00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:05,310 of work that he's doing for them, and that he's sending over 571 00:37:05,310 --> 00:37:07,380 to us has increased greatly. 572 00:37:08,820 --> 00:37:10,710 Damien Greathead: I mean, it's one of those funny things that 573 00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:14,040 accountants always come back with more work whenever they sit 574 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,270 in front of their clients. So how do we take up time, but 575 00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:20,940 again, we'll we'll build on that Penny, one of the articles that 576 00:37:20,940 --> 00:37:23,730 we've been discussing from Harvard is around creating a 577 00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:27,540 purpose driven organization and on the website will have a link 578 00:37:27,540 --> 00:37:32,010 to the article. So you can go in and have a read of it. But I 579 00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:36,090 thought it was interesting, because as with all things in 580 00:37:36,090 --> 00:37:40,140 Harvard, it's always talking about fortune 500 companies and 581 00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:44,550 the importance of this is how the world's biggest companies 582 00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:48,960 made made millions of dollars for their shareholders. What 583 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,020 about first small medium size accounting and bookkeeping 584 00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:56,880 firms? And being a purpose driven organization? How How 585 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,600 does that translate to these smaller firms, these smaller 586 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,610 businesses that you and I are working with, 587 00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:07,200 Rita Breslin: or you you heard that story about the CPA that 588 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,310 meets with her team once? They actually have brought me out to 589 00:38:11,310 --> 00:38:15,660 some of them. So I've actually sat in for the week. Last time 590 00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:19,980 was in the Dominican, so but I said, I'm not doing that, again, 591 00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:24,210 that's too long of a flight. But it's as long as going to India. 592 00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:30,450 But the, they have been like just last week. Sorry, on on. 593 00:38:30,450 --> 00:38:36,300 This was a zoom meeting with a very small firm. She is just now 594 00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:39,150 opening our second office, she has one in California, she's 595 00:38:39,150 --> 00:38:50,280 going to open one in Montana. And she has a meeting every week 596 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:56,820 with our team in both places, but also she has every year she 597 00:38:56,820 --> 00:39:00,780 has it her mission statement of the year internally. And like 598 00:39:01,770 --> 00:39:07,170 two years ago, it was finding the the technology apps, her 599 00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:10,620 little black dress that she wanted to work with. And that 600 00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:14,400 would work well and that everybody could get in on then 601 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,920 it was the next one was the next year was how do we make this 602 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,900 process flow and and get the work done faster? And make sure 603 00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:28,230 that we're getting it timely done? And what are we delivering 604 00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:32,730 to the client? And now it's this year, it's client expectation. 605 00:39:33,210 --> 00:39:36,870 So everybody has that in front of them. What's the expectation 606 00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:40,980 of the client? And are we meeting it? What we've we've got 607 00:39:40,980 --> 00:39:43,260 the contracts in front us, we got the engagements in front of 608 00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:47,490 us, this is what we've promised them and are we meeting it and 609 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,290 also asking the client, what's your experience of us? Are we 610 00:39:52,290 --> 00:39:57,540 hitting our mark, and so every year she's done something. And 611 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,630 in although she's doing a lot of things in her firm She has 612 00:40:00,630 --> 00:40:03,330 something in front of her that she's focusing on, because it's 613 00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:07,410 huge to make these changes. And she's just she's the one we met 614 00:40:07,410 --> 00:40:11,280 her three years ago, she was just one account, working by 615 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,890 yourself. Not go to office. 616 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,710 Damien Greathead: Wow. And I think that's actually a really 617 00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:19,440 important point Penny is we don't need to save the world. 618 00:40:20,220 --> 00:40:24,030 You know, you sort of even the title of that article creating a 619 00:40:24,030 --> 00:40:26,940 purpose driven organization. It's up to you to define 620 00:40:26,940 --> 00:40:30,390 purpose, purpose in terms of your clients purpose in terms of 621 00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:34,680 your team. And I like the fact that just each year, we're going 622 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,160 to chip away at a very particular part to drive us 623 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,560 forward. And I think that's something that that hopefully 624 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,010 listeners can take, can take away from today's episode is, 625 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,900 you don't need to fix the world today. But if there's one small 626 00:40:51,930 --> 00:40:57,630 aspect, and hopefully today's is becoming really clear on why 627 00:40:57,630 --> 00:41:02,730 we're in business, what are we in business to do? And what are 628 00:41:02,730 --> 00:41:06,660 we not in business to do? So I think that's, that's something 629 00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:11,130 to really come away from today's episode is, what is it that you 630 00:41:11,130 --> 00:41:13,680 are? Why are you in business? 631 00:41:13,890 --> 00:41:19,680 Rita Breslin: Yeah. And you have to be happy, and you've got to 632 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,780 be happy. And, 633 00:41:22,590 --> 00:41:25,080 Damien Greathead: yeah, I've seen a Venn diagram where 634 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,980 there's happiness, revenue, and I can't remember what the third 635 00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:31,500 one is. I'll try and dig that out for the next episode. But 636 00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:34,470 it's very much this Venn diagram, where right in the 637 00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:37,800 middle is your sweet spot. And so that's where you should focus 638 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,010 in terms of what are the types of services and clients that 639 00:41:41,010 --> 00:41:43,920 make you happy? What are the types of clients and services 640 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,560 that are profitable. And then as I said, I can't remember that 641 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,780 one down the bottom there, but there is definitely a Venn 642 00:41:48,780 --> 00:41:53,670 diagram of this sweet spot, that is where you should operate. 643 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,040 Rita Breslin: And, you know, I think, I think it's, it's, it's 644 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,590 much easier for a even small, medium sized firm, to be able to 645 00:42:01,590 --> 00:42:04,620 do that. I mean, if you're working in a huge, you know, 646 00:42:04,650 --> 00:42:09,900 mega, Super Regional, you know, big, huge firm, you're doing 647 00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:16,620 that by division. But it the, at the end of the day, you've got 648 00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:20,940 to love what you do. And your clients have to love the 649 00:42:20,940 --> 00:42:23,940 deliverable you're giving them. And if you can get those two 650 00:42:23,940 --> 00:42:28,140 things in sync, then you know, the clients are going to do what 651 00:42:28,140 --> 00:42:30,720 you want, you know, there's no more begging, they're going to 652 00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:33,750 be anxious to give you the information. They're going to be 653 00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:37,560 anxious to communicate with you. I know because I'm not just 654 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,860 dealing with firms. I'm dealing with small businesses that come 655 00:42:40,860 --> 00:42:44,160 to me, and I tell them right up front, we'll get you better have 656 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,300 a CPA, because I'm not going to be the last word when it comes 657 00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:51,930 to that kind of stuff. I'll do all the traffic cop you want, I 658 00:42:51,930 --> 00:42:56,220 will help facilitate it. But you know, they still keep on coming 659 00:42:56,220 --> 00:43:00,000 back. Because they're getting what what we told them they 660 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,830 would get. I didn't over promise. And I didn't tell them 661 00:43:04,830 --> 00:43:08,760 I could do something that one I wasn't. I don't want to do. 662 00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:13,080 Could I be capable of doing something like that? Yes. Are 663 00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:20,490 you kidding me? I'm not stupid. And I've spent 25 years doing 664 00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:25,500 this working with accountants. And, and I've done a few tax 665 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:29,280 returns in my life. I've met I've closed a few sets of books 666 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:34,290 in my life. But it doesn't make me happy to do it. But I'm 667 00:43:34,290 --> 00:43:41,400 really honest. Like, Oh, God, now I know, I have not that kind 668 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,370 of person. Right now. I'm sitting here talking to you and 669 00:43:44,370 --> 00:43:47,370 both knees to jumping up and down. And like I've sat one, 670 00:43:48,510 --> 00:43:49,230 squirrel. 671 00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:54,030 Damien Greathead: I mean, it's a good point, because I'm probably 672 00:43:54,030 --> 00:43:58,110 one that we'll finish on is he as he said, he'd done a few tax 673 00:43:58,110 --> 00:44:00,600 returns, you've closed a few sets of books in your time, your 674 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,810 client wouldn't know a good set of books, you can actually turn 675 00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:04,230 it for him. 676 00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:06,810 Rita Breslin: I guess I could for some of them. I could I 677 00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:10,140 could, I could put anything out there. And they would be okay. 678 00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:12,360 Damien Greathead: But I do know if they get out. They do know if 679 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,330 they've got enough cash in the bank to meet payroll. They do 680 00:44:15,330 --> 00:44:18,330 want to know if they've got enough cash to pay their bills. 681 00:44:18,330 --> 00:44:20,400 They want to know that they've got a little bit of cash that 682 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,120 they can put into savings. They want to know that they grew last 683 00:44:24,570 --> 00:44:26,340 last month or last quarter. 684 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,270 Rita Breslin: I had one the other day she's she called me. 685 00:44:30,270 --> 00:44:34,980 She goes okay, we plan on having a baby. Can you teach me how I 686 00:44:34,980 --> 00:44:39,360 can manage my money and my business a little bit better. 687 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,600 And we looked through a p&l. I showed her a comparison what she 688 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,740 did even during COVID how she did a little bit okay. And then 689 00:44:46,740 --> 00:44:49,680 I introduced her to the profit first method. I said, here's 690 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,590 this book you need to read. And I'm going to tell you, you know 691 00:44:52,590 --> 00:44:56,850 what, let's open up a good interest money market account. 692 00:44:56,970 --> 00:44:59,580 You're not getting it from your bank. Let's open it up over 693 00:44:59,580 --> 00:45:04,080 here. gave her a flat FinTech ad. And I said, I don't care 694 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,100 what you do just put this amount every month, you can manage 695 00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:10,980 that. Right? You can manage that, right? And she goes, Yeah, 696 00:45:10,980 --> 00:45:16,020 I can go go ahead do that every month. And, you know, her friend 697 00:45:16,020 --> 00:45:21,450 who told you I also do a bit book spa, she told her to have 698 00:45:21,450 --> 00:45:23,520 this conversation with me, because I with her, I told her 699 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,490 two years ago to do this. And she's like, going, I can't 700 00:45:26,490 --> 00:45:30,690 believe how easy that was. And, you know, sometimes that's all 701 00:45:30,690 --> 00:45:34,860 it took. But that's about as far as I go. That's that. But I 702 00:45:34,860 --> 00:45:40,440 mean, that just was a little bit of a conversation that you can 703 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,820 have with any client. And I know, I know, all of my firm 704 00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:47,400 clients would have found another way to make money off of that 705 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,120 conversation. And I would have added value to that's not my 706 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,910 business. And that's not what these clients are to me, because 707 00:45:53,970 --> 00:46:00,420 they're my guinea pigs. So but I mean, you know, how often do you 708 00:46:00,420 --> 00:46:05,250 get a call that says, hey, we're trying to have a baby, and I 709 00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:07,980 need to? What do you think I should do about putting some 710 00:46:07,980 --> 00:46:10,470 money away? We want to buy a house. And you know, my 711 00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:13,320 husband's doing really well, I'm doing, but we, what do you think 712 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:13,740 we should do? 713 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,860 Damien Greathead: And you want to be able to take that call, 714 00:46:16,890 --> 00:46:19,860 you don't want to you want to have the time to have that 715 00:46:19,860 --> 00:46:22,770 conversation, because that's where the value is. And so 716 00:46:22,770 --> 00:46:25,560 Penny, I think if we sort of round out today's episode, and 717 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,350 we sort of start thinking about what we're going to touch on on 718 00:46:28,380 --> 00:46:32,940 on our next podcast episode. It's becoming taking some time 719 00:46:32,940 --> 00:46:39,240 out to become very clear on the types of services and the types 720 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:42,870 of people that you want to work with. That's what I'm sort of 721 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:44,520 picking up out of today's episode, 722 00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:46,950 Rita Breslin: deliverables that you're willing that you can 723 00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:47,610 commit to. 724 00:46:48,780 --> 00:46:50,880 Damien Greathead: Cuz you can't just love a tax return over the 725 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,790 fence. You can't just love a p&l over the fence. Can you and 726 00:46:53,790 --> 00:46:57,420 expect to expect the client to be delighted? 727 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,850 Rita Breslin: Yeah, and not and and don't be surprised if 728 00:46:59,850 --> 00:47:02,610 somebody else comes in and takes them away from you? 729 00:47:02,910 --> 00:47:06,510 Damien Greathead: Yeah. And I think once we've I think that's 730 00:47:06,510 --> 00:47:09,660 important. What are the deliverables? What are the end 731 00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:13,260 deliverable services, types of clients we want to be working 732 00:47:13,260 --> 00:47:16,440 with, I think it's really important to become crystal 733 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,340 clear on that. Because once we've done that, we can then 734 00:47:20,340 --> 00:47:24,480 move into the actual, well, what do we need to do to get us 735 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,150 there? What are the what are the activities that we need to let 736 00:47:27,150 --> 00:47:30,720 go of? What are the activities that we need to look at our 737 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:36,300 process and automate? And and that's I think the part about 738 00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:41,040 our next episode is where we once we've got clarity here, on 739 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,860 what we are, what we want to be who we want to look after, and 740 00:47:43,860 --> 00:47:45,930 what we want to deliver to our next episode 741 00:47:45,930 --> 00:47:48,240 Rita Breslin: is how do you get clarity with your employees? 742 00:47:48,570 --> 00:47:53,940 Yep, yeah. Yeah. Because you might get clear, you might you 743 00:47:53,940 --> 00:47:57,660 you might be rate dialed right in on what you want. But you 744 00:47:57,750 --> 00:48:00,480 better make sure that the people around you want the same thing. 745 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,210 Damien Greathead: And I think maybe that's where we start our 746 00:48:03,210 --> 00:48:07,110 next episode, because we've seen a whole host of firms absolutely 747 00:48:07,110 --> 00:48:13,050 derailed because the the vision of the the owners and the vision 748 00:48:13,050 --> 00:48:15,600 and the understanding of the teams are completely different, 749 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,940 or even multiple owners who don't have the same. 750 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,260 Rita Breslin: Yeah, that's what 751 00:48:21,060 --> 00:48:24,480 Damien Greathead: maybe that's where we are we we we lead off 752 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:29,340 on our next episode, where we dive deeper into being crystal 753 00:48:29,340 --> 00:48:32,730 clear on what we want to do. What are the types of services 754 00:48:32,730 --> 00:48:35,730 we want to provide? What are the deliverables that we want to 755 00:48:35,730 --> 00:48:39,780 deliver? And then we can focus on how we're actually going to 756 00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:43,380 get there and delivering them. So Penny, this has been a really 757 00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:48,180 good way to kick things off. I think we we often launch 758 00:48:48,180 --> 00:48:51,360 straight into the app or firms launch straight into the app 759 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,350 straight into the workflow straight into reporting and all 760 00:48:55,350 --> 00:48:59,430 these whiz bang reporting apps but they don't spend any time on 761 00:48:59,430 --> 00:49:04,320 the front end really defining who they are, and what they want 762 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:05,820 to deliver to their clients. 763 00:49:06,030 --> 00:49:07,320 Rita Breslin: Get your brand going. 764 00:49:07,590 --> 00:49:08,280 Damien Greathead: Yep, 765 00:49:08,580 --> 00:49:09,510 Rita Breslin: yeah, gotta get your 766 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,910 Damien Greathead: jump on the website, si t vc.co. You can see 767 00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:18,300 the Harvard Business article you can see strategy in the fat 768 00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:22,170 smoker and where to download or order those from penny. We will 769 00:49:22,170 --> 00:49:27,150 see you next week when we get into to team on strategy in the 770 00:49:27,150 --> 00:49:28,230 virtual controller. 771 00:49:28,410 --> 00:49:29,310 Rita Breslin: All right, you got it.