I saw a movie called American Hot Wax and it told the story of DJ Alan Freed, who coined the term rock and roll, and who was the first person to play R and B and rock and roll on a major commercial radio station.

And watching the movie when I was 8, sitting in a theater watching real life performances from Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis.

And these people to me were like my.

It was like watching Star wars to some people.

It was like, I don't know who these strange creatures are, but I want to be a part.

No musical talent whatsoever, so I better figure out something.

And you know, as, as I got older, I started with a subscription to Billboard magazine and started reading all about the people who ran record labels and distributors and artists and promoters and I loved all of that.

To me, it wasn't just about the music, but it was about what else was happening around them with the economy and what was happening racially and what was happening on the so sociological perspective that I loved.

And I started a record label when I graduated from university and that turned into a booking agency as well and then a public relations company.

And that was back in 1995.

And I've been doing it ever since.

So if my math is correct, I've been doing it now for four years.

No, I'm only kidding.

Can I ask, speaking of starting a record label.

Sorry, what year was it when you started the record label?

I started it back in 1995.

It was the day after I graduated from York University in Toronto.

Right.

So 95.

So when I graduated from, from college, a lot of people, a lot of my peers were starting record labels.

And I'm sure that that was very different from what it was like to start a record label back when there were records more prevalent.

And how would you describe the differences between running a record label in the 90s and running, if you could call it a record label, music distribution or however.

Yeah, it works today.

What are the differences?

Well, when, when you and your friends were starting a record label, you know, it was around 1932, so.

No, you're not that old, are you?

No.

So I just watched them do it.

Yeah, right, right.

Well, there were things called CDs, which was huge at the time, and CD, I mean, the Internet wasn't even a thing.

It wasn't even until maybe a couple of years after that where I got email, I would spend my night, press releases to people and.

But you know, there was a real, there was a real economy that was established for 30, 40, 50 years where the format might have actually changed.

From a 45 record to a vinyl record to eight track tapes and then cassettes and then CDs.

But it was always something physical.

It was something that, you know, if you were a fan of music, you had to go and, and save your money and take a bus or subway and go down to the record store, hope that they have it, buy it, take it home, take off the wrapper and then you listen to that until you saved up more money to buy something else.

And if you didn't like the record, well, tough, because that's what you had.

And so everything was really.

There were, there were, there were very little gatekeepers that controlled everything.

In Canada and in the US if you made a video, you had three people that made the decision to air it on MuchMusic.

And if they did, you were a superstar overnight.

Radio stations, you know, were, were pretty much stuck in their, in their ways when it came to what was popular.

It was, what was popular was what the major labels were, you know, of Universal, Sony and Warner and polygram.

And there were, you know, half a dozen of them were, that was their priority.

There were no other ways to prove anything that you're, that you were success to get on the radio, to get in the media than your sales.

That was it.

There was no streams, there was no download, there was no MP3.

So the, the actual method of proving that you were worthy of taking the next step were, were few and far between.

Now, you know, when I'm going out to the media or talking to artists, they could have 10 million streams but you know, 500,000 is on 19 different platforms and you know, or that they're blowing up on TikTok and it's not even their own material.

So this is why you should sign this artist.

You know, so it was, it was much different.

It's, it's so much better now than it ever was because even though that, you know, labels and artists can complain about the lack of money that is available to them, you know, you never hear about the 1% of artists that are making absolute bonkers bank on what it is.

They're making far more money now than they ever were in any other time in history.

So it was the fact that this industry was open to a few and even fewer were a success.

Wow.

So I guess now despite the over saturation of people and, or not just people, but artists out there with content, it sounds like it may have been somehow harder to make it through before, but it almost seems backwards because there's so much available now.

It's hard to cut through the tape.

So how do you.

Because I know you deal with a lot.

I don't even know how you do it.

And we might want to talk about that a little bit too.

But you seem to deal with hundreds or thousands of artists or at least have your finger on the pulse of what's going on with these people.

So how do.

What's your advice for someone to even just be seen or like, start to cut through the tape?

Yeah.

You know, artists have to understand and realize that they're not just in competition with another artist from their hometown or that they're not in competition with.

With, you know, somebody in their own country or state or province that even played the same music.

Your competition is Public Enemy and Marvin Gaye and Bruce Springsteen and the Stones and the Beatles and Frank Sinatra and everybody else that is available on Spotify or iTunes, and that's 55 to 60 million songs that are available.

So you have to be great.

We don't have time for good anymore.

Nobody does.

I do.

Because good.

You have to be good in order to become great.

And there's a little.

There's a real path that you can take.

But even if artists are just starting out, they have to kind of know a little bit of who they are as an artist, but also where they think their audience is.

You know, there's never been a better time to be able to actually pinpoint on Facebook or Instagram and spend a couple of dollars boosting the post to your new video to 100 like minded fans who might then share your music to a thousand more people.

So, you know, the ability for artists to understand just how little they are thought of as an artist and as people, it's like that, it's like that, that, that psychological effect, like when you start to realize how little people will think about you, that's when you are truly free, I think, because then you can do whatever you want because nobody's really looking at you, you know, But I think artists get the whole wrapped up in the branding aspect of it or what it means nothing because you're nobody, but in a great way.

Say that again.

You know, so I just think that that level of competition and it's not just on the music side, every time Kim Kardashian does something, every time, you know, Donald Trump tweeted about something that would suck the air out of the room for entertainment.

And they, these writers and editors have, and producers and show hosts, they all have a choice on why do they need to write about you when they can just write about Beyonce or Rihanna launching a new fragrance line, and that stuff is great, but that's what they're choosing to write about because it brings them more hits.

Once these artists think that they're worthy enough of trying to get that attention away from them, that's when it really starts to truly connect and work.