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Dallas Burnett: Hey, everybody.

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We're talking to Tony Miltenberger today.

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What an amazing guy.

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He's an author, an executive coach,
veteran podcaster, and a pastor who's

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turned life's deepest pains into
pathways for purpose and leadership.

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He has some incredible stories from
military deployments to building

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resilient families while overcoming
his own personal challenges.

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He's a great new friend of mine.

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You don't want to miss this
incredible conversation.

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Welcome the last 10%.

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Your host, Dallas Burnett, into
incredible conversations that

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will inspire you to finish well.

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And finish strong.

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Finish strong.

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Listen, as guests share their journeys in
valuable advice on living in the last 10%.

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you are a leader, a coach, a business
owner, or someone looking to level

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up, you are in the right place.

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Remember, you can give 90% effort and
make it a long way, but it's finding

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out how to unlock the last 10%.

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That makes all the difference in your
life, your relationships, and your work.

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Now here's Dallas.

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Welcome, welcome, welcome.

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I am Dallas Burnett, sitting
in my 1905 Koch Brothers

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barber chair in Thrive Studios.

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But more importantly, today,
we have a great guest.

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Tony Miltenberger is the author
of Wisdom in the Wound and Founder

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of Follow to Lead Coaching.

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He's the host of a podcast with
whoa, way more episodes than

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the last 10%, 400 episodes.

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That's insane.

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And he is a dedicated disciple maker
who's traveled the world from army

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deployments to church consultations,
all while being married for over

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20 years and having three kids.

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He is here to share.

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How embracing our wounds unlocks the last
10% of leadership potential through faith

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and vulnerability and practical wisdom.

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Welcome to the show, Tony.

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Tony Miltenberger: Dallas,
it is so good to be with you.

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Let's go.

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I'm fired up.

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That introduction was straight fire, dude.

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I love everything about it.

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Let's, let's get into some trouble.

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I'm, I'm here for all of.

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Dallas Burnett: it's just
like an imposter syndrome.

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'cause I feel like, man, I feel like
I should just turn over the mic and

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thrive and say, Hey, you just, you
just run this show because you've

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got such a history and podcasting.

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This is really fun and I enjoy
being on your show as well.

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So this was really,
really, really a treat,

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Tony Miltenberger: dude, when we met
on, the Father Lead Podcast, I knew

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instantly that we were kindred spirits.

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I love your heart.

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I love what you do for the market.

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I love, all the things that you've
got going through, through Thrive.

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And I just can't wait to see, I
can't wait to see where we go today.

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It's gonna be fun.

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It's gonna be fun.

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Dallas Burnett: gonna be really fun.

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All right, so I would love, we
always start the show by giving the

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listeners a taste of who the guest is.

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So tell the listeners of who
you are and how you got to

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where you are and what you do.

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Tony Miltenberger: Yeah, so I,
did not wanna do anything that I'm

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currently doing when I was a kid.

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So it's not like I was like, oh, I
wanna grow up and do these things.

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Nope, that's not true.

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In my case, I enlisted in the Army
Reserves right outta high school, and,

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uh, immediately knew I. I would've gone
active duty, but I met this girl and

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she said, I'm not leaving Dayton, Ohio.

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And I was like, well, looks like
I'm not leaving Dayton, Ohio either.

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We have since been married for, it'll
be 23 years this February, and she

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still keeps me on the right path.

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Her name is Karen.

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We have three beautiful
children, 19, 15 and 13.

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Two boys and a princess.

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The princess is the youngest,
of course, when she was born, I.

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I pulled the boys aside and I
said, Hey, whatever you do, protect

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your sister, protect your sister.

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And then she got to be about eight
years old and I pulled the boys back

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aside and I was like, protect yourself.

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Warrior princess, warrior princess.

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So it's it's awesome.

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Dallas Burnett: That's awesome.

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That's so great.

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So great.

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Tony Miltenberger: You know, my
greatest joy is being a dad to

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those three and a husband to Karen.

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And, I listened in the Army reserves.

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I knew the Lord had kind of just put
on my heart about some ministry stuff.

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So I was a chaplain's
assistant in the Army.

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I got, I got back from basic training
and really did some sales work

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and kind of some nonprofit work.

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And then eventually I ended up
at the church and and got to

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do some incredible church work.

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I was a lead pastor for seven years.

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Uh, the church that I was at was
having a really hard time deciding

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what it wanted to be when it grew up.

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And so one day I got done preaching
and I got out of the pulpit and I

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got a very clear direction from God.

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He said, you can stay or you can go.

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It's both gonna be hard.

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Dallas Burnett: Ooh.

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Tony Miltenberger: And I
was like, that, that's dumb.

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Like

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Dallas Burnett: don't like

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Tony Miltenberger: where's the,

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Dallas Burnett: is this?

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Tony Miltenberger: yeah,
where's the easy part?

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Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

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Tony Miltenberger: I would like
to see, streets of gold here.

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And I that's when I started to
begin to lean into consulting.

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And, I was sitting in front of a really
inspirational Christian executive

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who I've known for a long time.

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And we were talking about what it means
to run his business while also staying

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true to his values and his faith.

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And he looked at me and he said, Tony,
why don't you charge me for this?

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I said, I said, Mike, I've
never charged anyone for this.

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And he goes, I, I'm gonna
tell you what, I paid my last

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coach, my last executive coach.

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And he, he shared with me the number.

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And, I was like, well, that's, that's a
lot more than what I, you know, like I, I

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would just, my brain couldn't handle it.

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He goes, and he said, he said, the work
that you and I are doing together is

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more valuable to me than that work.

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Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

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Tony Miltenberger: And so that day I
went home and he was like, I think you

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should give this a shot and I'll help you.

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Dallas Burnett: That's
gotta be pretty encouraging.

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somebody, you're not even charging him,
you're just out there with your time.

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you're just helping a friend
out, really in your mind.

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You're just like, man, I'm sitting
here, I'm talking to this guy.

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I'm just helping, trying to help him
walk and be a better version of himself.

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And I'm just, and then all of
a sudden he is like, Hey bro.

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This is so good.

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I just feel guilty if I don't pay yet.

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So would you take a check?

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And by the way, this is what
I paid the last guy, and I'm

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sitting there thinking, dang, yes.

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Yeah.

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I'm gonna help you do this, man.

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That's awesome.

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that's incredible.

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Tony Miltenberger: We created a, I
created a Google form and I asked

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a bunch of questions about what you
would do, what would you be open to

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working with a Christian executive, and
what would you want to get out of it?

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Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

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Tony Miltenberger: just wanted to
send it out as a survey, and so I

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sent it out to my network and then
he sent it out to his network.

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And so that week, 50 people, took
the survey and, at the end of the

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survey it said, would you like to,
inquire more about Christian coaching?

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And, two people said, four
people said yes, and two of those

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signed up as a client that week.

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Dallas Burnett: Oh my gosh.

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gosh.

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Tony Miltenberger: and now I had
the pucker factor was 10 because now

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I actually had to figure out what
I was gonna do with those people.

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Dallas Burnett: They dunno
what they just signed up for.

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I dunno

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Tony Miltenberger: I

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Dallas Burnett: just signed up for.

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Tony Miltenberger: dunno
what they signed up for.

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It's like, oh my gosh, I got,
now I gotta coach these people.

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And, but you know, like, um.

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And the people who listen to this
podcast know that the last 10% is the

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boldness that it takes to actually
go and do something like that.

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It's the decision to step out in
faith and say, okay, here I am.

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and you know what, the, um, out
of those two clients, one of those

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clients still has me on retainer

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Dallas Burnett: Oh wow.

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Tony Miltenberger: two and
a half years later now.

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Dallas Burnett: Oh, that's great.

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Tony Miltenberger: I.

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Dallas Burnett: Very good.

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Tony Miltenberger: I do not deserve
the life I live, and I'm so thankful

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for all the doors that have been
opened to me by so many people, right?

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That in, in coaching we call
it an abundance mindset,

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Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Tony Miltenberger: and so like
I just, you, you just can't

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out give the goodness of.

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The world and God and all the
things that whatever it is that

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you believe in, you can't out.

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You can't out give it.

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And so being abundance mindset, you know,
one of my core beliefs is generosity.

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And I just say all the time that I
give my best stuff away for free.

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Dallas Burnett: Mm. That's great.

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I mean, I love that and I, I think
that's so true and I think that

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people underestimate the power.

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I was actually sitting when this
was early on, think, move, thrive.

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I don't even know if I had, yeah, I don't
even know if I had named it or not yet.

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Well, no, I guess I had.

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just named it because I'd
written the Move, the first book,

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and I was excited about Move.

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it's just like this, we're gonna
talk about your book in a second.

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You just get, you're
jacked about the book.

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you gotta

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Tony Miltenberger: Yeah.

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Dallas Burnett: put that much
blood, sweat, and tears into

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something you get so pumped about,
you wanna share it with the world.

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And I was sitting across the
table and I met these guys.

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Somebody had said, you
need to meet these guys.

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they need to hear, you
need to read your book.

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So I had given 'em a copy of.

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Sent 'em a copy of Move before I met 'em.

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They were further down the path.

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They had some big clients they were
working with, they were working with

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a lot of different Chick-fil-A's
and I'm like, man, if I could get

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in with these guys, you never know.

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Who knows?

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And so I sent him the book and this guy
sitting across the table and his older

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fellow, his partner goes to the bathroom
and he comes, he looks at me, he goes.

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read your book and I love it.

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I was like, oh, that's,
you've read a lot of books.

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you train on this stuff.

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I was like, I really appreciate
you saying that means a lot.

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It's kinda like a guy
from inside the industry

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Tony Miltenberger: Yeah.

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Dallas Burnett: dude, this is legit.

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And I was like, yes.

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And then he looks at me and it was
like total deflation of like any kind.

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I was just like, unbelievable.

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He looked at me, he said,
but you realize, man.

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He goes, you really believe this stuff.

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I was like, yeah.

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He said, you realize
that people don't change.

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I mean, you know, people don't change.

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Like you're talking, your book
is titled Move you're telling

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people how to be better.

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He goes, but you know
people don't really change.

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they don't.

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And I'm sitting there and I just
looked at him and I was dumbfounded.

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I was literally, I could, I said,
wait a minute, let me, and I had

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to repeat back to him what he said.

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He is yeah, they don't, they don't,
people, most people don't change.

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And I was like.

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Why are you doing your job?

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What, what?

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What are you doing?

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Like what?

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are in the wrong business, man, you know?

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Tony Miltenberger: I
could not disagree more.

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Dallas Burnett: Yeah, I mean, I, and so
literally that's exactly what I said.

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I said, I just choose, I just
don't believe that I believe

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something completely different.

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And, but to, to that point, I
think people in general sometimes

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underestimate the value of coaching and

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Tony Miltenberger: Mm-hmm.

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Dallas Burnett: you've been doing it
for a lot longer because of, you've

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been in the ministry, you've been in
the military and all these things.

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You've seen a lot, had a
lot of experiences on that.

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But I'd love to, to share because
a lot of our listeners, have

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experienced our coaching system.

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We have the app.

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Some of our listeners have
experienced our coaching system, and

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they've implemented that in their
organization just because they wanted

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to drive coaching further down.

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an organization, but I would love to hear
you just riff on your experience with

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coaching and some of the development,
not specific, but any kind of thing

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Tony Miltenberger: Sure.

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Dallas Burnett: you could speak to
about some of the wins that you've

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seen as a coach in that space.

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Tony Miltenberger: Yeah, so one
of the things that I just really

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believe is that information by
itself doesn't really change much.

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So the key is, and there's a formula,
my, buddy Justin Gravitt who is with

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the navigators, we talk about this
often and we say that information plus

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application equals transformation And
I even, you know, information plus

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application equals transformation.

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So the problem is like I'm really
good at consuming information, but

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where I need help is with application.

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Dallas Burnett: yes, yes.

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Tony Miltenberger: So the transformation
part is actually just a result

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of the work of the two together.

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So I know a lot of the stuff.

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I have a coach myself, and I know a lot
of the stuff that my coach is saying, but

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what I really need is I need that coach to
ask me about it when we meet two weeks or

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a month from now, I need the application
part, I need the accountability.

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I need a little skin in the game.

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Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

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Tony Miltenberger: so that idea, and so
like one of the things that I love to

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do with clients that is transformational
is values work, for example.

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So I, I believe that if you can identify
your values, it can change your life.

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So my core four are faithful,
grateful, generous, and movement right.

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So I wanna be faithful, grateful,
generous and movement and the

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core four values by themself.

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They sound really good and they're great
and I can rattle 'em off, but here's

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the work that most people don't see
is I have a scorecard underneath them.

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Dallas Burnett: Nice
going Ben Franklin on us,

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Tony Miltenberger: That's

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right.

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That's right.

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And so I know that faithful in
my life means I go to the gym.

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Five times a week.

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It means that I pray
with my wife every night.

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It means that I am actively participating
in a worship community, right?

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Grateful means that I call my
parents at least once a week.

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Generous is about my tithe, and
my talent and I always have one

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free coaching client, right?

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Because that's my scorecard
at the end of the year.

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I want to be able to.

301
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Evaluate without manipulating the
answers in my own head if I'm really

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living out the values that I say I want.

303
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Right?

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And so like, you know, one of
the examples of my core four,

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the last one is movement, right?

306
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And in the work that I do and
in my own life, it's movement.

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And so every year I want to try one
thing that I've never done before.

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I just wanna try, I just
wanna try it, right?

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And so

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Dallas Burnett: love it.

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Tony Miltenberger: this year we,
for the very first time in our

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life, we're going to South Africa.

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Dallas Burnett: Ooh, nice.

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Tony Miltenberger: there with a,
we're going there with a ministry.

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We're gonna go and we're gonna go on
safari while we're there, and we're gonna

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just, we're gonna do those things, right?

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So movement, like I, I,

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Dallas Burnett: yeah.

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Tony Miltenberger: now, I don't
know any, I don't have any, there's

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no outcomes associated with that.

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There's no, but the reason I can say,
yeah, I want to do that is because

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it's associated with my values.

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Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

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Tony Miltenberger: Right, and so that's,

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Dallas Burnett: yeah.

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Tony Miltenberger: that kind of work.

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I think the values themselves are
good and most people I know can

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come up with values, but assigning
activities to the values is what equals

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application, and then transformation.

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Dallas Burnett: I would say this, that's
a huge challenge, not only for you

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personally, but you to extrapolate that
to your team because a lot of people

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walk in and I, I see this all the time.

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walk in, you see the values on
the wall, and they're like, we

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believe you know this, and here's
our mission statement and all.

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And then you walk one office down.

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You don't even make it to the end
of the hall or the back closet.

337
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you don't make it to the, you
just walk one office down and

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you walk in the door and you say.

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Hey, you walk by those values every day.

340
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Can you tell me all five values?

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They're like, oh, well

342
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here.

343
00:14:46,436 --> 00:14:47,186
Yeah, now.

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Now let's say they rattle off the values.

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All right, good job.

346
00:14:50,906 --> 00:14:53,276
You've passed them every
day for the last 10 years.

347
00:14:53,276 --> 00:14:55,506
That is at least that you get score.

348
00:14:55,536 --> 00:15:00,756
That's a plus for noticing, but then
when you say, okay, tell me how this

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company demonstrates this value.

350
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Exactly.

351
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It's exactly what you just said.

352
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It's exactly what is the
scorecard under the value.

353
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It's how do I know that this is not an
aspirational value for you or for the

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company or the organization, but it's an
integrated value and the integrated value

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is different than aspirational because
you have the scorecard, you keep score and

356
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what a lot of times the companies will do.

357
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And organizations will do is they'll
keep score on the financial scorecard,

358
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the balance sheet, the income
statement, a profit and loss statement

359
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and stuff, but they, they don't
have a really good scorecard on the

360
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value scorecard and they wonder why.

361
00:15:39,721 --> 00:15:44,371
culture is in kind of a malaise
or there's no energy behind it,

362
00:15:44,371 --> 00:15:45,811
or there's no really definition.

363
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Or they may have a higher turnover
or they don't really know, they don't

364
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know how to pro promote someone.

365
00:15:50,511 --> 00:15:52,851
How do I know if somebody's
doing really well or not?

366
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at the end of the day, you as a
business you have to make money.

367
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But on the flip side there,
there's different ways to do that.

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And, and so I, I can't agree with you
more, and I think that as a leader.

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Listening to you challenge us to, to
create those scorecards personally,

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also extrapolate extrapolates
to, your team and organization.

371
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So I love that.

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Tony Miltenberger: One of the things that
I say all the time on the podcast, and

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it's just become a core belief, is that if
you're not dedicated to your disciplines,

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you'll be destroyed by your distractions.

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Dallas Burnett: Hmm hmm.

376
00:16:23,531 --> 00:16:25,361
Tony Miltenberger: And so he,
so here's the truth, right?

377
00:16:25,361 --> 00:16:28,871
As a leader, no one ever wakes
up and says, man, today's the

378
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day that I wanna ruin my life.

379
00:16:32,021 --> 00:16:33,761
I just haven't met anybody
that says that, right?

380
00:16:34,511 --> 00:16:38,501
Today's the day that I wanna
sink my business, right?

381
00:16:39,061 --> 00:16:43,651
But here's what we do, is we inadvertently
sacrifice the activities that got

382
00:16:43,651 --> 00:16:45,571
us to the place in the first place,

383
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Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

384
00:16:46,471 --> 00:16:47,191
Tony Miltenberger: and here's the thing.

385
00:16:47,231 --> 00:16:50,701
you can, you can take this
to every part of your life.

386
00:16:51,001 --> 00:16:53,311
You found that husband or wife.

387
00:16:53,671 --> 00:16:55,471
What did you do to find her or him?

388
00:16:55,861 --> 00:16:57,721
What are you doing to keep her or him?

389
00:16:57,961 --> 00:16:58,171
Right?

390
00:16:58,171 --> 00:16:59,131
There are disciplines.

391
00:16:59,131 --> 00:17:03,091
No one ever wakes up and says, man, I
really want to end my marriage today.

392
00:17:03,444 --> 00:17:06,624
We stop dating, we stop doing
the work that is required.

393
00:17:06,624 --> 00:17:07,854
We stop communicating.

394
00:17:07,854 --> 00:17:10,584
We stop being vulnerable, right?

395
00:17:10,584 --> 00:17:13,104
And this is the same thing
that happens in our parenting.

396
00:17:13,734 --> 00:17:17,124
All of a sudden, if you think about
parenting those younger years, you're

397
00:17:17,124 --> 00:17:20,904
attentive, you're engaged, you're
involved because you have to be.

398
00:17:21,114 --> 00:17:24,264
And then they get to be about 12
or 13 and they're like, oh my gosh,

399
00:17:24,264 --> 00:17:25,704
this human is really annoying me.

400
00:17:25,704 --> 00:17:27,144
I'm not going to do those things.

401
00:17:28,014 --> 00:17:30,924
And then we wonder why they don't
come back home with their grandkids.

402
00:17:31,429 --> 00:17:31,649
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

403
00:17:31,654 --> 00:17:31,914
Yes.

404
00:17:32,289 --> 00:17:34,209
Tony Miltenberger: It's the
disciplines that got you there.

405
00:17:34,269 --> 00:17:37,899
And if you don't know what your
disciplines are, then you've actually

406
00:17:37,899 --> 00:17:39,999
just let the world set your disciplines,

407
00:17:40,729 --> 00:17:40,939
right?

408
00:17:40,939 --> 00:17:43,249
Because the world will say, the
world will say, you can come in

409
00:17:43,249 --> 00:17:45,139
at eight and leave at five, right?

410
00:17:45,139 --> 00:17:46,519
Is it Well, is that what you want?

411
00:17:46,519 --> 00:17:47,629
Is that the life that you want?

412
00:17:47,629 --> 00:17:48,199
I don't know.

413
00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:50,359
I And I honestly, I don't care.

414
00:17:50,539 --> 00:17:52,759
Like I don't care what your
answer is to the question.

415
00:17:52,939 --> 00:17:54,424
I just care that you take
the time to answer it.

416
00:17:55,384 --> 00:17:56,314
Dallas Burnett: Exactly.

417
00:17:56,404 --> 00:17:59,554
Ah, man, I think that's,
I think that's so awesome.

418
00:17:59,554 --> 00:18:05,114
And I think that ultimately what you're
trying to get to is really defining, it's

419
00:18:05,114 --> 00:18:07,424
defining who you are and what you want.

420
00:18:07,754 --> 00:18:08,894
And I think that's.

421
00:18:09,064 --> 00:18:12,964
It's just really interesting because
I think that most people move

422
00:18:12,964 --> 00:18:18,064
through life and it kind of is acted
on them and they don't act on it.

423
00:18:18,184 --> 00:18:18,814
You know what I mean?

424
00:18:18,814 --> 00:18:22,594
And I, and to your point, I would
say this, even, you know, when you

425
00:18:22,594 --> 00:18:25,354
gave a great example about your
marriage, and I think that's so true.

426
00:18:25,354 --> 00:18:28,534
It's that what it is, it is, it
is layers when you think about

427
00:18:28,534 --> 00:18:30,214
it, it's like the amount of.

428
00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:33,119
effort in early on in the relationship.

429
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,129
can you say that you're
actually doing that?

430
00:18:35,129 --> 00:18:38,629
If you're in a, in the trenches
with your spouse and you're like, oh

431
00:18:38,629 --> 00:18:40,189
man, we're just grinding each other.

432
00:18:40,239 --> 00:18:43,469
are you putting that same, in on
that, on this side, and it's most,

433
00:18:43,469 --> 00:18:45,239
most likely the answer is no.

434
00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:50,509
but I think in an organization, this is
where this gets tricky and it gets murky,

435
00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:54,254
and many times that people overlook it is
I, we had a guest on, probably a year ago.

436
00:18:55,244 --> 00:18:56,964
And he said, we had this team, we

437
00:18:57,314 --> 00:18:57,434
Tony Miltenberger: I.

438
00:18:57,594 --> 00:18:58,584
Dallas Burnett: it was like a small team.

439
00:18:58,584 --> 00:19:00,114
It was like five people
and then it went to 20.

440
00:19:00,114 --> 00:19:02,814
And it's oh man, we're all tight and we're
doing all these things together and we

441
00:19:02,814 --> 00:19:07,284
had this kind of core common values and
we kinda all believed the same thing and

442
00:19:07,284 --> 00:19:10,104
we're running the race together and this
is like awesome, tight group of people.

443
00:19:10,404 --> 00:19:13,854
And then we grew really fast and we
had like several hundred people and we

444
00:19:13,854 --> 00:19:18,954
were doing the same things the same way
that we did it when we're 20 people.

445
00:19:19,014 --> 00:19:19,884
And it wasn't working.

446
00:19:20,139 --> 00:19:20,559
Tony Miltenberger: Right.

447
00:19:20,724 --> 00:19:24,204
Dallas Burnett: and so what he was
saying was, is that our connections, we

448
00:19:24,204 --> 00:19:30,204
were connecting when we were 20 people,
but it, I can't connect with 200, but

449
00:19:30,204 --> 00:19:32,214
I wasn't connecting at all, right?

450
00:19:32,214 --> 00:19:35,484
Because I was still trying to
connect as if I was with 20 people.

451
00:19:35,664 --> 00:19:37,254
And so the system changed.

452
00:19:37,564 --> 00:19:40,504
or the, this environment changed,
but the system didn't change with it.

453
00:19:40,504 --> 00:19:42,334
So the connection is,
like what you're saying,

454
00:19:42,424 --> 00:19:42,634
Tony Miltenberger: Yep.

455
00:19:43,054 --> 00:19:43,864
Dallas Burnett: of connection.

456
00:19:43,924 --> 00:19:46,474
I wanna connect with people and I
wanna make sure they connect with

457
00:19:46,474 --> 00:19:49,294
each other and have clarity on what
we believe in our mission vision.

458
00:19:49,594 --> 00:19:53,154
But when the environment changed
and went from 20 to 200, the systems

459
00:19:53,154 --> 00:19:56,064
didn't change with it to maintain
that connection and that clarity

460
00:19:56,064 --> 00:19:57,384
and that those value structure.

461
00:19:57,384 --> 00:20:01,104
So I think that's where it gets tricky
as a leader is because not only are

462
00:20:01,104 --> 00:20:02,604
you looking at yourself going, Hey.

463
00:20:02,874 --> 00:20:07,104
What am I doing and am I putting out
that and am I, am I clear on that,

464
00:20:07,164 --> 00:20:12,144
on my discipline, but the way that I
exercise that discipline could change?

465
00:20:12,444 --> 00:20:12,534
Tony Miltenberger: Right.

466
00:20:12,534 --> 00:20:15,649
And so one of the things I tell,
uh, clients all the time, and I

467
00:20:15,649 --> 00:20:19,399
love little sticky sayings, is that
you have to set a date to evaluate,

468
00:20:19,834 --> 00:20:22,984
You have to set a date to evaluate is
this working or is this not working?

469
00:20:23,344 --> 00:20:26,344
And sometimes I hear from business
owners, they're like, I'm too busy.

470
00:20:26,674 --> 00:20:29,884
And I'm like, if you're too
busy to evaluate how you're

471
00:20:29,884 --> 00:20:32,584
running your business, then your
business is actually running you.

472
00:20:33,289 --> 00:20:35,109
Dallas Burnett: Mm.
Yeah, a hundred percent.

473
00:20:35,194 --> 00:20:36,894
Tony Miltenberger: So you just
gotta set a day to evaluate.

474
00:20:36,894 --> 00:20:38,334
I shut the doors for a day.

475
00:20:38,544 --> 00:20:42,354
I, there's nothing in the world that if
you don't have a team of people that can

476
00:20:42,354 --> 00:20:46,734
run the business without your presence,
then there's then take a Saturday, take a

477
00:20:46,734 --> 00:20:48,654
Sunday, whatever you, whatever it takes.

478
00:20:48,894 --> 00:20:52,554
If you don't set a date to evaluate,
then you, it's impossible to be

479
00:20:52,554 --> 00:20:54,264
intentional in your response.

480
00:20:54,684 --> 00:20:55,014
Right.

481
00:20:55,014 --> 00:20:55,239
And, and.

482
00:20:55,854 --> 00:20:58,484
One of the things that I just really
believe on, and I talk a little

483
00:20:58,484 --> 00:21:02,224
about in the book is this idea that,
we can be emotionally reactive or

484
00:21:02,224 --> 00:21:04,294
we can be intentionally responsive.

485
00:21:05,424 --> 00:21:05,504
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

486
00:21:05,914 --> 00:21:09,804
Tony Miltenberger: And as a leader, if
we're emotionally reactive, then what

487
00:21:09,804 --> 00:21:14,394
we've done is we've allowed the feelings
to become the primary driver of the

488
00:21:14,394 --> 00:21:16,464
world that we are living in instead of.

489
00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:20,499
Being intentional in our
response, being value-based,

490
00:21:20,499 --> 00:21:22,119
being mission and vision driven.

491
00:21:22,479 --> 00:21:23,349
And that's the difference.

492
00:21:24,264 --> 00:21:25,194
Dallas Burnett: Ah, nah.

493
00:21:25,194 --> 00:21:26,004
That's really good.

494
00:21:26,064 --> 00:21:26,604
I love it.

495
00:21:26,604 --> 00:21:27,234
I love that.

496
00:21:27,234 --> 00:21:28,344
And it's accountability.

497
00:21:28,614 --> 00:21:31,674
It's just if you put that date down,
when you set a date to evaluate,

498
00:21:31,674 --> 00:21:35,784
you're just giving yourself that
built in accountability that everybody

499
00:21:35,784 --> 00:21:39,234
needs that is putting the, is putting
your gym schedule on your calendar

500
00:21:39,604 --> 00:21:39,724
Tony Miltenberger: right.

501
00:21:39,954 --> 00:21:40,884
Dallas Burnett: that you don't overbook.

502
00:21:40,939 --> 00:21:42,529
and just saying, this
is what I'm gonna do.

503
00:21:42,529 --> 00:21:45,169
I'm carving out time and
having that accountability.

504
00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:46,599
man, this has been great.

505
00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:49,169
I want to talk, I want to get into
your book a little bit 'cause this is,

506
00:21:49,169 --> 00:21:50,819
you're doing your world tour right now.

507
00:21:50,819 --> 00:21:51,659
the book launch.

508
00:21:51,659 --> 00:21:55,049
And I know that there's some
valuable information for leaders

509
00:21:55,049 --> 00:21:57,179
that are living in the last 10%.

510
00:21:57,179 --> 00:22:01,079
And I like the idea when we
first connected about your

511
00:22:01,079 --> 00:22:03,509
book because as leaders.

512
00:22:04,179 --> 00:22:09,369
Sometimes we get into this leadership,
you know, mindset where, you know, it,

513
00:22:09,439 --> 00:22:11,239
we're supposed to have all the answers.

514
00:22:11,459 --> 00:22:16,799
we're supposed to kind of be this perfect,
display perfection to people around us.

515
00:22:16,869 --> 00:22:19,239
and sometimes we start telling
ourselves that's what we should

516
00:22:19,239 --> 00:22:20,049
be and that's who we are.

517
00:22:20,049 --> 00:22:22,539
And so it's like this, you know,
defense mechanisms, all that stuff.

518
00:22:22,539 --> 00:22:27,819
But I thought your book was a really good
way to open up some conversation about.

519
00:22:28,794 --> 00:22:33,134
Real life and leaders in the real world
because, we all have battle scars.

520
00:22:33,134 --> 00:22:36,529
And so I think moving through that
and dealing with those is important.

521
00:22:36,529 --> 00:22:40,279
So tell us a little bit about, just
give us an intro to, to your book and

522
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:41,749
kind of what inspired you to write it.

523
00:22:42,694 --> 00:22:43,024
Tony Miltenberger: Yeah.

524
00:22:43,024 --> 00:22:46,624
the book is called Wisdom in the Wound,
how Your Greatest Gift is on the other,

525
00:22:46,724 --> 00:22:50,684
side of Your Wound, and this idea is.

526
00:22:51,014 --> 00:22:55,064
It comes back to the a core belief
that the art of conscious leadership.

527
00:22:55,424 --> 00:22:56,774
How do you show up in a room?

528
00:22:56,774 --> 00:22:57,824
How do you show up as a leader?

529
00:22:57,824 --> 00:23:01,904
And one of the things that I began to
realize as I did pastoral counseling

530
00:23:01,904 --> 00:23:06,824
and executive coaching is that everyone
in the world has got something, right?

531
00:23:06,824 --> 00:23:09,834
And so we would call that,
little t trauma, right?

532
00:23:09,834 --> 00:23:13,614
You're wounding, it usually happens
between the ages of four and 12.

533
00:23:14,019 --> 00:23:17,769
It's not malicious in intent,
but it drastically shapes the

534
00:23:17,769 --> 00:23:18,609
way you look at the world.

535
00:23:18,609 --> 00:23:23,589
It becomes, I would say, like a lens
that in which you look at the world and

536
00:23:23,829 --> 00:23:25,269
we all have it and it's unavoidable.

537
00:23:25,269 --> 00:23:28,239
So if you've got kids, let me
just go ahead and affirm, you've

538
00:23:28,239 --> 00:23:30,279
already wounded your kids, so just

539
00:23:31,644 --> 00:23:32,544
Dallas Burnett: Congratulations.

540
00:23:33,399 --> 00:23:34,959
Tony Miltenberger: this is
also probably what happened.

541
00:23:34,959 --> 00:23:37,929
You probably tried to give them
a different wound than what your

542
00:23:37,929 --> 00:23:41,289
parents gave you, and so as a
result, they look different.

543
00:23:41,529 --> 00:23:42,189
Praise.

544
00:23:42,609 --> 00:23:43,329
God, right?

545
00:23:43,329 --> 00:23:46,209
Like, okay, so everybody's wounded.

546
00:23:46,539 --> 00:23:50,469
If theologically, we would call it the
epistemic consequence of sin, right?

547
00:23:50,469 --> 00:23:51,489
The world is broken.

548
00:23:51,819 --> 00:23:53,739
Everyone's willing to
admit the world is broken.

549
00:23:53,949 --> 00:23:57,699
We don't often talk about the
consequences of that brokenness.

550
00:23:58,419 --> 00:23:59,379
Your wound

551
00:23:59,579 --> 00:24:01,049
is that consequence.

552
00:24:01,804 --> 00:24:03,454
So what does that mean?

553
00:24:03,454 --> 00:24:08,104
It means that oftentimes people
bump up against our wounds.

554
00:24:08,509 --> 00:24:12,319
It causes us to react emotionally.

555
00:24:12,979 --> 00:24:14,299
So let me give you an example.

556
00:24:15,049 --> 00:24:18,228
at four years old, my
parents had unplanned twins.

557
00:24:18,228 --> 00:24:18,793
Crazy.

558
00:24:19,283 --> 00:24:21,623
they went from man to man
defense to zone defense.

559
00:24:21,623 --> 00:24:26,303
And I went from being the middle child
or the youngest child to the middle,

560
00:24:27,068 --> 00:24:28,028
Dallas Burnett: Ah.

561
00:24:28,043 --> 00:24:29,063
Tony Miltenberger: so nobody's fault.

562
00:24:29,063 --> 00:24:29,963
Nobody did it to me.

563
00:24:29,963 --> 00:24:31,343
I love my brother and sisters.

564
00:24:31,343 --> 00:24:32,843
They're incredible humans.

565
00:24:33,293 --> 00:24:35,213
Would not trade them for the world.

566
00:24:35,843 --> 00:24:41,213
And also from four years old on my
wound is I felt like I didn't matter.

567
00:24:42,503 --> 00:24:44,843
Now, I've talked to my parents about this.

568
00:24:44,843 --> 00:24:49,373
I've talked to my, nobody did this
to me on purpose, but it became

569
00:24:49,593 --> 00:24:51,243
the lens at which I saw the world.

570
00:24:51,933 --> 00:24:52,114
And so.

571
00:24:52,303 --> 00:24:52,383
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

572
00:24:52,673 --> 00:24:56,182
Tony Miltenberger: At four years old,
I go to the middle child syndrome and

573
00:24:56,182 --> 00:25:01,282
I'm in full effect, and my parents are
managing this new life with four kids.

574
00:25:01,642 --> 00:25:05,602
They end up getting divorced, they end
up getting remarried, and somewhere

575
00:25:05,602 --> 00:25:10,908
along the way, the narrative in my
head was, I don't really matter now.

576
00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:11,629
Play that out.

577
00:25:11,869 --> 00:25:15,199
I eventually go to high school,
join the army, do all this kind of

578
00:25:15,199 --> 00:25:19,579
work, and I'm constantly looking
for roles where I can show up in

579
00:25:19,579 --> 00:25:21,769
people's lives so that I matter.

580
00:25:22,262 --> 00:25:24,962
And so, so here's the deal, right?

581
00:25:24,962 --> 00:25:26,882
On the other side of that wound.

582
00:25:27,557 --> 00:25:32,747
Is my greatest gift because we serve a
redemptive God and because psychologically

583
00:25:32,747 --> 00:25:36,857
we always want to take account for the
pain and trauma that we've experienced.

584
00:25:37,277 --> 00:25:38,687
And so what am I really good at?

585
00:25:39,137 --> 00:25:40,787
I'm really good at seeing people.

586
00:25:41,537 --> 00:25:42,047
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

587
00:25:42,137 --> 00:25:42,617
Right,

588
00:25:42,797 --> 00:25:45,857
Tony Miltenberger: And so your gift is
naturally on the other side of your wound.

589
00:25:45,907 --> 00:25:46,777
and here's the deal.

590
00:25:46,777 --> 00:25:51,037
There's this tool that I talk about in the
book called The Emotional Intensity Scale.

591
00:25:52,057 --> 00:25:55,387
On a scale from one to 10, your
emotional intensity, you, we

592
00:25:55,447 --> 00:25:59,497
typically, most people typically run
in that two to four range, right?

593
00:25:59,497 --> 00:26:00,997
Emotional intensity, two to four.

594
00:26:00,997 --> 00:26:04,777
On a normal day, your two to four may
look different than my two to four, but

595
00:26:04,777 --> 00:26:07,267
we all have a normal kind of homeostasis.

596
00:26:08,542 --> 00:26:13,612
When somebody bumps up against our
wound, we have an intensity spike.

597
00:26:14,392 --> 00:26:15,442
And so here's the tool.

598
00:26:15,952 --> 00:26:19,042
If on a scale from one to 10, your
emotional intensity spikes above

599
00:26:19,042 --> 00:26:22,612
a six, it's always more about
you than it is the other person,

600
00:26:23,572 --> 00:26:24,832
Dallas Burnett: Ah, interesting.

601
00:26:25,222 --> 00:26:25,492
Tony Miltenberger: right?

602
00:26:25,492 --> 00:26:28,492
So we're, if we're a hundred percent
responsible for how we think, feel,

603
00:26:28,492 --> 00:26:32,082
and act, meaning that you have, you
have cognitive control over your

604
00:26:32,082 --> 00:26:35,712
feelings, thoughts, and actions,
then that means it's impossible.

605
00:26:36,087 --> 00:26:40,917
For someone to actually make us mad,
but instead we have to choose to be mad.

606
00:26:41,157 --> 00:26:44,457
And in most cases, we have to own the
fact that we're doing it on purpose.

607
00:26:45,642 --> 00:26:46,032
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

608
00:26:46,917 --> 00:26:48,117
Tony Miltenberger: And
that's just a lot, right?

609
00:26:48,117 --> 00:26:48,567
It's a lot.

610
00:26:48,567 --> 00:26:49,677
But think about it like this.

611
00:26:49,677 --> 00:26:54,087
If I'm driving down I 75, I live in
Ohio, it's the worst highway in the

612
00:26:54,087 --> 00:26:56,643
world, it, and somebody cuts me off.

613
00:26:57,198 --> 00:26:57,978
They cut me off.

614
00:26:57,978 --> 00:26:58,908
They didn't see me.

615
00:26:58,968 --> 00:27:03,798
And then I immediately lay on my horn
and I tell them that they're number one.

616
00:27:03,798 --> 00:27:06,858
And I use all the words that I
learned in the Army to convey

617
00:27:06,858 --> 00:27:08,388
my displeasure for this moment.

618
00:27:10,748 --> 00:27:12,548
We've all been there right now.

619
00:27:13,298 --> 00:27:15,668
Here's the question I already
shared with you, my values.

620
00:27:15,908 --> 00:27:18,578
Does any of that activity
actually aligned with my values?

621
00:27:19,238 --> 00:27:19,598
No.

622
00:27:19,663 --> 00:27:20,408
Dallas Burnett: I would say no.

623
00:27:20,483 --> 00:27:22,163
Tony Miltenberger: No, there's
nothing faithful, grateful,

624
00:27:22,163 --> 00:27:23,813
generous, or movement about that.

625
00:27:24,323 --> 00:27:27,803
Instead, I'm having an emotional
reaction because my emotional

626
00:27:27,803 --> 00:27:29,543
intensity has been spiked.

627
00:27:30,023 --> 00:27:33,748
Now, what is this do I really think
in my heart of hearts, did that guy in

628
00:27:33,748 --> 00:27:35,248
front of me did that to me on purpose?

629
00:27:35,758 --> 00:27:36,118
Nope.

630
00:27:37,108 --> 00:27:37,318
No.

631
00:27:37,318 --> 00:27:38,278
He doesn't even know who I am.

632
00:27:38,473 --> 00:27:41,473
But what happened in that moment
is he bumped up against my wound,

633
00:27:41,473 --> 00:27:43,388
which is I want to be seen.

634
00:27:43,991 --> 00:27:47,861
what, when he doesn't care about my
safety, I don't feel very seen, do I?

635
00:27:48,071 --> 00:27:48,641
Dallas Burnett: Right, right.

636
00:27:49,091 --> 00:27:52,161
Tony Miltenberger: And so now the
reality is, is as a, conscious

637
00:27:52,161 --> 00:27:56,781
leader, I can say This situation isn't
really about this car in front of me.

638
00:27:57,471 --> 00:28:00,051
It's about my wound that
just lives inside of me.

639
00:28:00,381 --> 00:28:01,071
And it's real.

640
00:28:01,262 --> 00:28:03,392
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, it's almost
like it just gets aggravated in that,

641
00:28:03,392 --> 00:28:04,552
it's it just, somebody pricks it,

642
00:28:04,639 --> 00:28:04,879
Tony Miltenberger: Yeah,

643
00:28:04,924 --> 00:28:05,194
Dallas Burnett: like,

644
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,019
Tony Miltenberger: a hundred percent.

645
00:28:06,034 --> 00:28:06,274
Dallas Burnett: go.

646
00:28:06,364 --> 00:28:09,419
It's just a little bit more sensitive
than the rest of the rest of you,

647
00:28:09,459 --> 00:28:10,779
Tony Miltenberger: And
we all have it right now.

648
00:28:10,929 --> 00:28:13,899
Now here's what's crazy, is
that sensitivity that can go for

649
00:28:13,899 --> 00:28:17,409
good activities as much as it
can go for negative activities.

650
00:28:18,084 --> 00:28:19,254
So here's another example.

651
00:28:19,254 --> 00:28:20,939
I've got two sons that both play football.

652
00:28:21,169 --> 00:28:22,419
They're both linebackers.

653
00:28:22,524 --> 00:28:25,134
Let's say one of 'em intercepts the
ball, takes it back to the house.

654
00:28:25,134 --> 00:28:25,674
Full blown.

655
00:28:25,674 --> 00:28:26,484
Pick six.

656
00:28:26,784 --> 00:28:28,104
Love it, right?

657
00:28:28,209 --> 00:28:28,599
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

658
00:28:28,794 --> 00:28:28,974
Tony Miltenberger: it.

659
00:28:29,124 --> 00:28:32,274
And then I go full blown
Midwestern dad on the sideline.

660
00:28:32,274 --> 00:28:33,804
Like I'm chest bumping pit ball.

661
00:28:34,044 --> 00:28:36,534
I'm high five, and let's go.

662
00:28:37,524 --> 00:28:37,794
Right?

663
00:28:37,794 --> 00:28:38,694
Like, I'm going nuts.

664
00:28:39,339 --> 00:28:40,179
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, yeah.

665
00:28:40,194 --> 00:28:41,304
Tony Miltenberger: in that moment.

666
00:28:41,964 --> 00:28:43,759
Is that more about me or is it about them?

667
00:28:43,762 --> 00:28:44,452
It's about me.

668
00:28:44,647 --> 00:28:45,127
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

669
00:28:45,157 --> 00:28:45,937
Being seen.

670
00:28:45,997 --> 00:28:48,217
Tony Miltenberger: Be in seen,
'cause I did that on that field.

671
00:28:48,217 --> 00:28:49,717
Those are my kids,

672
00:28:49,717 --> 00:28:49,927
Dallas Burnett: my

673
00:28:50,167 --> 00:28:50,707
Tony Miltenberger: my

674
00:28:50,707 --> 00:28:51,517
boy, right?

675
00:28:51,597 --> 00:28:51,837
Dallas Burnett: you go.

676
00:28:52,167 --> 00:28:56,757
Tony Miltenberger: and so the deal is
that as leaders, we have to know that when

677
00:28:56,757 --> 00:29:02,007
our emotions are above a six, the only
thing that we can do that will be healthy

678
00:29:03,027 --> 00:29:08,157
is feel our feelings so that we can get
below a six to make a good decision.

679
00:29:10,552 --> 00:29:15,892
So feelings at their core, their decision
points, they're not decision makers.

680
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:20,139
And so the greatest leaders in the world
have this kind of thing figured out.

681
00:29:20,649 --> 00:29:25,119
They've realized that life is not
the absence of your wound, like

682
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:27,969
you're not gonna make it go away,
Dallas, it's gonna be there forever.

683
00:29:28,659 --> 00:29:33,189
But instead they have an intimacy
with their wound so that when

684
00:29:33,189 --> 00:29:34,809
somebody bumps up against it.

685
00:29:35,349 --> 00:29:36,374
It doesn't scare them.

686
00:29:36,434 --> 00:29:38,294
Dallas Burnett: I like how you've
painted that picture because

687
00:29:38,304 --> 00:29:42,504
it's really defining what a, a,
like a part of self-awareness is.

688
00:29:42,504 --> 00:29:47,754
Like you're pulling out, I
love how you're tying the wound

689
00:29:48,144 --> 00:29:49,799
to a leader's self-awareness.

690
00:29:51,249 --> 00:29:56,259
Because that's, that is an incredible, you
know, EQ and if you can recognize it in

691
00:29:56,259 --> 00:30:01,259
others and yourself and self-awareness and
what you're describing is just a profound

692
00:30:01,259 --> 00:30:07,679
way of understanding yourself better so
that you have the ability to respond,

693
00:30:07,709 --> 00:30:11,049
like what you were saying earlier,
you have the ability to intentionally

694
00:30:11,049 --> 00:30:13,119
respond versus emotionally react.

695
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:13,704
And if your emotions.

696
00:30:15,159 --> 00:30:17,529
Are not decision points, but drivers.

697
00:30:17,739 --> 00:30:18,069
Right.

698
00:30:18,209 --> 00:30:18,579
Tony Miltenberger: Right.

699
00:30:18,969 --> 00:30:21,699
Dallas Burnett: your decision
like, gonna, I'm going.

700
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:24,159
'cause you're always asking your question.

701
00:30:24,529 --> 00:30:27,799
I guess if you're a competent leader,
you're asking, when you start feeling

702
00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:31,789
the, when you get the feels good, bad,
or ugly, if it's coming up, you feel your

703
00:30:31,819 --> 00:30:36,779
neck getting red and you're like, you feel
the beast coming out, then the question

704
00:30:36,779 --> 00:30:41,389
is, are you intentionally responding in a
way that is appropriate to the situation

705
00:30:41,389 --> 00:30:45,139
or is your emotions driving you to do
something that you typically wouldn't do?

706
00:30:45,139 --> 00:30:47,689
Like you were saying, the example
in the car when you're driving.

707
00:30:49,099 --> 00:30:52,339
I just think that's really important
for leaders because it's, this is

708
00:30:52,339 --> 00:30:56,480
not a. An employee or a team member
problem versus a leader problem.

709
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:57,440
This is a human

710
00:30:57,755 --> 00:30:58,475
Tony Miltenberger: Right.

711
00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:01,940
Dallas Burnett: we all deal with this,
so it doesn't matter, even if you're an

712
00:31:01,940 --> 00:31:05,900
introvert or an extrovert, if you got
a lot of energy or if you got a little

713
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:07,370
energy, it's like, it doesn't matter.

714
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,400
Everybody's been wounded and we all
have these things, and I just think

715
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,369
about it in my career, I saw an employee
when I was in a part of a startup.

716
00:31:13,374 --> 00:31:16,144
I just, when you're saying these things,
I'm just like, I'm playing this over my

717
00:31:16,384 --> 00:31:19,744
you know, because I've had these
conversations with my wife and one of the

718
00:31:19,744 --> 00:31:23,404
things I did early on in my leadership
career, I was running this venture funded

719
00:31:23,404 --> 00:31:26,104
startup and I was at the table with
the founder and we're sitting across

720
00:31:26,104 --> 00:31:29,974
the board table and we've got all the
finance answers, people around us, and

721
00:31:29,974 --> 00:31:33,154
they made this, he made this comment
about, we need to let this guy go.

722
00:31:33,154 --> 00:31:37,804
We just had hired this guy and
I felt like the, he was getting.

723
00:31:37,813 --> 00:31:43,595
It wasn't just that he made that comment,
it was that he was dismissive of the

724
00:31:43,595 --> 00:31:46,235
person and their value as an individual.

725
00:31:46,235 --> 00:31:48,125
Like he was just like he, he really

726
00:31:48,305 --> 00:31:48,425
Tony Miltenberger: Hmm.

727
00:31:48,455 --> 00:31:52,685
Dallas Burnett: not, and at that point I
just felt like the person was so treated

728
00:31:52,685 --> 00:31:56,435
so unfairly like you, it was just like.

729
00:31:58,370 --> 00:32:04,370
And I just was like, I'm gonna defend
the person who can't defend themselves.

730
00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:09,495
And I wa I just went into we are
not, and I mean it, and I went

731
00:32:09,495 --> 00:32:12,285
from zero to 60 and way too fast.

732
00:32:12,615 --> 00:32:16,035
And had I had more awareness
at that point in time.

733
00:32:17,145 --> 00:32:18,735
I would've handled that differently.

734
00:32:18,735 --> 00:32:22,815
I would've said probably very similar
things, but the response would've

735
00:32:22,815 --> 00:32:26,595
been less driven by that emotion, and
I could have probably articulated it

736
00:32:26,595 --> 00:32:32,220
better and not like the finances were
looking at whoa, you know, these guys,

737
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,950
these guys, I don't know, And so.

738
00:32:35,315 --> 00:32:37,505
Uh, this, then you're
in damage control mode.

739
00:32:37,505 --> 00:32:39,425
So I'm just looking at that
and that's a real live example

740
00:32:39,425 --> 00:32:40,385
of just my personal story.

741
00:32:40,385 --> 00:32:43,715
Like I would, going back, I
may have said the same thing.

742
00:32:43,715 --> 00:32:46,385
I believe the same thing he
was not being treated fairly.

743
00:32:46,535 --> 00:32:48,785
He was, he should not have
been terminated, all that.

744
00:32:48,815 --> 00:32:52,895
But the way I handled that was
way more emotionally driven

745
00:32:52,895 --> 00:32:54,035
than intentionally driven.

746
00:32:54,035 --> 00:32:54,425
You know what I

747
00:32:54,495 --> 00:32:56,670
Tony Miltenberger: Yeah, and, and part
of the result of that is that people

748
00:32:56,715 --> 00:33:01,485
can't hear your message when you're not
clear enough with yourself to deliver it.

749
00:33:01,667 --> 00:33:02,437
Dallas Burnett: Exactly right.

750
00:33:02,607 --> 00:33:05,707
Tony Miltenberger: And so this
matters, this matters in your marriage.

751
00:33:05,707 --> 00:33:09,067
This matters in your parenting,
this matters in your workplace.

752
00:33:09,067 --> 00:33:12,007
This matters in all the places
where you should, anywhere that

753
00:33:12,007 --> 00:33:13,297
there are people this matters.

754
00:33:13,297 --> 00:33:16,447
'cause all of life is just a
bunch of broken people bumping

755
00:33:16,447 --> 00:33:17,857
up against each other's wounds.

756
00:33:18,307 --> 00:33:21,667
And so, you know, one of the things
that I kind of assert in the book is

757
00:33:21,667 --> 00:33:24,297
that grace is curiosity and empathy.

758
00:33:25,542 --> 00:33:26,202
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.

759
00:33:26,217 --> 00:33:28,587
Tony Miltenberger: you can have
curiosity and empathy, then you can

760
00:33:28,587 --> 00:33:32,367
be graceful in the approach that you
want to take in working with others.

761
00:33:32,937 --> 00:33:33,177
Right?

762
00:33:33,177 --> 00:33:36,147
I was like, man, I wonder what's
going on in Dallas's day that

763
00:33:36,147 --> 00:33:37,707
caused him to react like that.

764
00:33:38,157 --> 00:33:42,267
Or, I can't even imagine the pressure
that Dallas has, but oftentimes because

765
00:33:42,267 --> 00:33:47,337
my emotional response is so high,
I can't have curiosity or empathy.

766
00:33:48,222 --> 00:33:51,432
Instead, I just have this
reactiveness, it's like, rah,

767
00:33:51,462 --> 00:33:53,142
the whole world's out to get me.

768
00:33:53,142 --> 00:33:57,072
like it's man, that's, and the
problem is that emotional reaction

769
00:33:57,072 --> 00:34:01,512
will oftentimes just paint an in
an inaccurate picture of reality.

770
00:34:03,297 --> 00:34:07,227
So it's, it may feel that way that the
whole world's out to get you, but the

771
00:34:07,227 --> 00:34:09,507
truth is no one's even thinking about you.

772
00:34:09,607 --> 00:34:15,162
it's just it's like, how, and so as a
leader, I wanna make an informed decision.

773
00:34:15,192 --> 00:34:18,132
John Tyson would say,
spirit led data informed.

774
00:34:18,462 --> 00:34:20,712
I wanna make an informed decision.

775
00:34:21,232 --> 00:34:25,642
That is full of data points that
will move the organization forward to

776
00:34:25,642 --> 00:34:27,412
what I feel like we're called to do.

777
00:34:27,742 --> 00:34:32,482
And in order to do that, I have to take
the wounded part of me and I have to

778
00:34:32,482 --> 00:34:36,982
be so familiar with it that it doesn't
scare me if I have to lead us down a path

779
00:34:36,982 --> 00:34:38,572
where something might bump up against it.

780
00:34:39,552 --> 00:34:40,632
Dallas Burnett: You know,
you dropped the one line.

781
00:34:40,632 --> 00:34:42,462
You were right man, you've
got some great one-liners.

782
00:34:42,462 --> 00:34:44,832
The grace is curiosity and empathy.

783
00:34:45,702 --> 00:34:48,162
is a, when you think, I've
never heard it put like that.

784
00:34:48,192 --> 00:34:50,262
I've never heard Grace
described like that.

785
00:34:50,322 --> 00:34:54,988
And what's fascinating is when you
think about curiosity, I'm curious

786
00:34:54,988 --> 00:34:57,268
about something, I'm not judging it.

787
00:34:58,518 --> 00:34:58,868
Tony Miltenberger: Right.

788
00:34:59,503 --> 00:35:01,003
Dallas Burnett: I'm also
really not afraid of it.

789
00:35:01,003 --> 00:35:05,793
I'm really like, interested, okay,
let me find out more about this.

790
00:35:05,853 --> 00:35:07,143
I want to know more.

791
00:35:07,143 --> 00:35:09,153
I'm very cur, I'm intrigued.

792
00:35:09,283 --> 00:35:09,793
I'm actually.

793
00:35:09,793 --> 00:35:10,513
Wow.

794
00:35:10,603 --> 00:35:14,563
And when you think about when you approach
someone as a leader, whether it's a

795
00:35:14,563 --> 00:35:18,683
team member, whether it's a coworker or
whether it's your, whether it's your boss

796
00:35:19,403 --> 00:35:24,203
when they disagree with you or when they
do something that doesn't make sense.

797
00:35:24,953 --> 00:35:29,993
Then if you're responding emotionally and
you allow that to be, it really takes,

798
00:35:30,023 --> 00:35:35,833
you're either judging them or you're
afraid, or some other, many other things.

799
00:35:35,833 --> 00:35:38,233
But those are two big things that
you're gonna have to deal with.

800
00:35:38,533 --> 00:35:41,753
But if you can move past that, and
especially like we're talking about in

801
00:35:41,753 --> 00:35:45,443
the wound and evaluate that and say, oh,
if I'm emotional response is a little

802
00:35:45,443 --> 00:35:49,543
too high, if I step back from a second,
it does, you'll win so many more times.

803
00:35:49,543 --> 00:35:50,508
If you can just look at that and say, oh.

804
00:35:50,998 --> 00:35:52,708
I'm fascinated to why you think like that.

805
00:35:52,758 --> 00:35:53,873
why do you think like that?

806
00:35:53,873 --> 00:35:55,523
Why did you make that decision?

807
00:35:55,523 --> 00:35:56,603
Why are we doing that?

808
00:35:56,753 --> 00:35:59,003
But if you can do that in a
non-judgmental way, it's not

809
00:35:59,003 --> 00:36:00,263
gonna come across as judgmental.

810
00:36:00,368 --> 00:36:00,488
Tony Miltenberger: Yeah,

811
00:36:00,675 --> 00:36:02,415
Dallas Burnett: the problem is
you might ask the same question,

812
00:36:02,625 --> 00:36:04,275
why do you think like that?

813
00:36:04,275 --> 00:36:06,430
Why in the world would you
think like that versus.

814
00:36:07,260 --> 00:36:08,490
Oh man, I'm so interested.

815
00:36:08,490 --> 00:36:09,150
Tell me more.

816
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:09,990
Tell me more

817
00:36:10,245 --> 00:36:11,175
Tony Miltenberger: tell
me more about that.

818
00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:12,450
yes.

819
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,380
Dallas Burnett: this is a total different,
but that takes, that is like a walking,

820
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,880
it is, it's a, that, that takes grace,
to extend that curiosity to someone.

821
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:23,590
So that's a, I love that.

822
00:36:23,590 --> 00:36:24,430
I love that idea.

823
00:36:24,490 --> 00:36:25,270
That's really good.

824
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:30,238
let's talk about, what you feel like has
been, your biggest message in this, if

825
00:36:30,238 --> 00:36:33,898
you were to give the biggest message from
this to a leader, let's say the leader

826
00:36:33,898 --> 00:36:36,388
is leading an organization or a team.

827
00:36:36,778 --> 00:36:39,088
If you were to say, I'm
gonna boil this thing down.

828
00:36:39,088 --> 00:36:41,548
If you were gonna know
this book down to one

829
00:36:41,813 --> 00:36:42,233
Tony Miltenberger: Mm-hmm.

830
00:36:42,778 --> 00:36:44,963
Dallas Burnett: what would you do to
say, to communicate to that leader?

831
00:36:44,974 --> 00:36:48,062
Tony Miltenberger: I would say
this is the greatest leaders

832
00:36:48,062 --> 00:36:50,287
in the world know who they are.

833
00:36:51,017 --> 00:36:57,047
On the positive and the wounded
sides, and they don't have

834
00:36:57,377 --> 00:36:59,807
judgment around either side.

835
00:37:00,137 --> 00:37:02,567
They just acknowledge
that both sides exist.

836
00:37:02,972 --> 00:37:06,992
And so there's this tendency, there's
this tendency with a lot of us, I

837
00:37:06,992 --> 00:37:11,427
know, with me at least, to judge my
feelings as if I shouldn't have them.

838
00:37:12,712 --> 00:37:15,772
Man, Tony, you shouldn't tell
people that you get mad at cars

839
00:37:15,772 --> 00:37:17,752
on the 75 or you shouldn't.

840
00:37:18,472 --> 00:37:21,112
Like I, I know that one of the
things I struggle with is ego.

841
00:37:21,112 --> 00:37:22,912
Like I've never not struggled with it.

842
00:37:23,822 --> 00:37:25,592
it's just part of how I'm wired, right?

843
00:37:25,592 --> 00:37:26,972
Like I, I want to be seen.

844
00:37:26,972 --> 00:37:31,062
and so it's a constant battle and I'm,
Dallas, you've done this multiple times.

845
00:37:31,362 --> 00:37:35,172
This whole process of trying to talk
to people about your book is basically

846
00:37:35,287 --> 00:37:35,537
Dallas Burnett: yeah.

847
00:37:35,777 --> 00:37:37,787
Tony Miltenberger: It's basically
Hey, will you be my friend so

848
00:37:37,787 --> 00:37:39,317
that I can talk about my book?

849
00:37:39,437 --> 00:37:44,767
it's so dumb and good and but
so here's the thing, right?

850
00:37:44,797 --> 00:37:46,387
All of that is true.

851
00:37:46,987 --> 00:37:50,527
but my judgment around those feelings
doesn't actually serve what I

852
00:37:50,527 --> 00:37:51,877
feel like I'm being called to do.

853
00:37:52,469 --> 00:37:56,994
So like I do feel like, when people say
no, like they don't know what they're

854
00:37:56,994 --> 00:38:00,864
doing or they hurt my feelings, and I
do want this to be wildly successful,

855
00:38:00,864 --> 00:38:05,094
and I'm not a hundred percent sure what
that means, and I'm talking to a lot

856
00:38:05,094 --> 00:38:06,534
of people in my world about it, but I.

857
00:38:07,464 --> 00:38:10,824
For me to put judgment around
any of those feelings doesn't

858
00:38:10,824 --> 00:38:12,744
actually serve the greater good.

859
00:38:13,464 --> 00:38:18,954
Instead, I just want to just sit in it
and just acknowledge that I am wounded,

860
00:38:19,104 --> 00:38:21,534
people do bump up, up against my wounds.

861
00:38:21,894 --> 00:38:27,714
I do have big feelings, and all
of that makes me exactly who I am,

862
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:28,569
and

863
00:38:28,749 --> 00:38:29,079
Dallas Burnett: that.

864
00:38:29,169 --> 00:38:30,069
Tony Miltenberger: thankful for that.

865
00:38:30,729 --> 00:38:31,479
Dallas Burnett: I love that.

866
00:38:32,199 --> 00:38:32,649
love that.

867
00:38:32,649 --> 00:38:35,919
And I think that I wanna take it
one step further in the sense that

868
00:38:35,919 --> 00:38:39,549
I would love for you to talk about,
so you just summarized those, that

869
00:38:39,549 --> 00:38:42,519
core principle and idea that you're
communicating with the book to leaders.

870
00:38:43,149 --> 00:38:46,719
I would love to take it one step further
because there's a lot of leaders who are.

871
00:38:47,194 --> 00:38:51,394
Wanting to do well and are coaching
some of their team members.

872
00:38:51,394 --> 00:38:54,994
They're developing them, and some of
that's direct and some of it's indirect.

873
00:38:55,384 --> 00:38:57,544
But if I'm a leader and I'm
sitting down with a team member.

874
00:38:58,984 --> 00:39:00,664
what recommendations would you have?

875
00:39:00,664 --> 00:39:03,154
'cause you're engaging with executives in

876
00:39:03,609 --> 00:39:03,899
Tony Miltenberger: Yeah.

877
00:39:03,994 --> 00:39:06,094
Dallas Burnett: been in ministry for
a long time, you've been in the Army,

878
00:39:06,094 --> 00:39:09,774
and you've engaged, whether that's in
direct coaching, indirect or counseling.

879
00:39:09,904 --> 00:39:13,684
you've been a part of a lot of people's
lives and seen them develop and change.

880
00:39:14,054 --> 00:39:17,924
and so what advice would you give to
a leader if they wanted to help walk?

881
00:39:18,569 --> 00:39:23,579
With someone and help them develop greater
level of awareness about their wounding,

882
00:39:23,579 --> 00:39:25,054
how would you recommend they do that?

883
00:39:26,879 --> 00:39:29,459
Tony Miltenberger: This is probably
not surprising to anyone who's done

884
00:39:29,459 --> 00:39:33,149
any reading about leadership stuff,
but the truth is you have to, walk

885
00:39:33,149 --> 00:39:34,709
alongside them in the journey.

886
00:39:34,709 --> 00:39:36,629
And so that means you have to go first.

887
00:39:37,424 --> 00:39:40,784
Right there, there are a lot of situations
in leadership where you should go last

888
00:39:40,844 --> 00:39:42,794
and, I love that book Leaders Eat Last.

889
00:39:43,204 --> 00:39:47,364
but it's also true that when it comes
to vulnerability based trust, which is

890
00:39:47,364 --> 00:39:51,384
essentially what we're talking about
here, that leaders have to start first.

891
00:39:52,014 --> 00:39:55,254
And so imagine what would happen if you
walked into a room of direct reports

892
00:39:55,254 --> 00:40:00,744
and said, Hey guys, I have been on a
journey of realizing some things about me.

893
00:40:01,584 --> 00:40:04,974
I wanted to come in and apologize
for some emotional reactions I

894
00:40:04,974 --> 00:40:07,354
had recently about this event.

895
00:40:08,254 --> 00:40:12,154
And what I've realized happened is,
early on in my life, I was wounded.

896
00:40:12,514 --> 00:40:19,044
Like all we all were and make a joke and
then, and then tell them like, guys, one

897
00:40:19,044 --> 00:40:23,274
of the things that I really struggle with
is being seen, and sometimes it shows up

898
00:40:23,274 --> 00:40:25,454
in the workplace like this and like this.

899
00:40:26,354 --> 00:40:28,754
and then if you're really
brave, ask him this question.

900
00:40:29,924 --> 00:40:32,504
How was it like to be on the
other side of me in that moment?

901
00:40:38,219 --> 00:40:39,119
Dallas Burnett: Oh, that's good.

902
00:40:39,179 --> 00:40:39,689
That's good.

903
00:40:39,927 --> 00:40:41,517
Tony Miltenberger: and then,
and then everyone in the

904
00:40:41,517 --> 00:40:43,677
room will be like, our boss.

905
00:40:43,677 --> 00:40:47,187
if it's an uncommon behavior,
our boss is off the wagon, right?

906
00:40:47,187 --> 00:40:47,547
Like it.

907
00:40:49,077 --> 00:40:52,167
but if it's common behavior, if
it's a normal part of your culture

908
00:40:52,167 --> 00:40:54,147
already, then you can invite them.

909
00:40:54,397 --> 00:40:57,752
Hey guys, I wanna invite you
into this journey with me.

910
00:40:58,172 --> 00:41:02,012
I want us to be a team that
can share the hard parts.

911
00:41:02,072 --> 00:41:06,497
I would love for you to take a look
at what your wounding might be and.

912
00:41:07,312 --> 00:41:10,402
Let's take a look at what your gifting
is and let's take a look at what

913
00:41:10,402 --> 00:41:15,202
emotionally spikes you and let's just
have some dialogue around it, not to fix

914
00:41:15,202 --> 00:41:19,042
it 'cause we're not gonna fix it, but
so that we can all hold it together and

915
00:41:19,042 --> 00:41:21,742
understand that like we see each other.

916
00:41:21,742 --> 00:41:21,772
I.

917
00:41:23,277 --> 00:41:23,697
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.

918
00:41:24,382 --> 00:41:25,492
Yeah, that's really good.

919
00:41:26,062 --> 00:41:26,722
I think that.

920
00:41:27,547 --> 00:41:32,647
It's so uncommon and so
uncomfortable for leaders because

921
00:41:32,917 --> 00:41:34,477
I think some leaders, again.

922
00:41:34,837 --> 00:41:40,877
Without that, if they're insecure
anything, then exposing that wound

923
00:41:40,877 --> 00:41:44,507
just seems like I'm sta it's the,
I'm standing in front of the people.

924
00:41:44,597 --> 00:41:45,437
The emperor has no

925
00:41:45,847 --> 00:41:46,137
Tony Miltenberger: Sure.

926
00:41:46,187 --> 00:41:46,937
Dallas Burnett: oh my gosh.

927
00:41:46,937 --> 00:41:47,927
you feel that.

928
00:41:48,267 --> 00:41:51,997
and you also, I think as a
leader can feel, a bit of fear.

929
00:41:51,997 --> 00:41:54,672
if I put this out there, is anybody
gonna turn around and use this?

930
00:41:55,282 --> 00:41:55,852
against me.

931
00:41:55,852 --> 00:41:58,372
So it takes a lot, I love
the word you said, bravery.

932
00:41:58,372 --> 00:42:01,342
I think it takes a lot of
bravery and courage to have that

933
00:42:01,342 --> 00:42:02,932
vulnerability to open that up.

934
00:42:03,052 --> 00:42:06,682
But again, to, to your point, if you can
do that and open it up with your team,

935
00:42:06,892 --> 00:42:11,362
you're giving them permission to say that
and they can't really say anything to.

936
00:42:11,362 --> 00:42:14,472
It takes away their ability to say
anything to you when you ask them,

937
00:42:14,472 --> 00:42:18,192
Hey, so for you, you know, then you've
already, they can't say, well, I

938
00:42:18,192 --> 00:42:19,602
mean, I'm not telling you that well.

939
00:42:20,557 --> 00:42:23,712
I mean, I, I did, I told you
I'm not asking to do anything

940
00:42:23,712 --> 00:42:24,612
that I haven't done first.

941
00:42:24,612 --> 00:42:26,502
I'm not asking you to go
anywhere where I haven't gone.

942
00:42:26,862 --> 00:42:28,422
And so I think that's
really good advice and

943
00:42:28,459 --> 00:42:30,649
Tony Miltenberger: and if you really
wanna back this up a little bit too,

944
00:42:30,679 --> 00:42:34,589
like if your culture doesn't promote
this, months before you actually do

945
00:42:34,589 --> 00:42:37,829
the exercise, people are gonna have
a hard time making that transition.

946
00:42:38,279 --> 00:42:40,949
If they don't feel safe in the
culture, then they're not gonna

947
00:42:40,949 --> 00:42:42,419
feel safe to share emotionally.

948
00:42:42,779 --> 00:42:46,519
So if your culture, is integrity and grit.

949
00:42:47,554 --> 00:42:48,124
Vulnerability.

950
00:42:48,124 --> 00:42:51,454
You know what, depending on what your
culture is, you better figure out a way

951
00:42:51,454 --> 00:42:55,504
to integrate that into the environment
long before you ever ask them to share

952
00:42:55,504 --> 00:42:56,974
the deepest parts of who they are.

953
00:42:57,354 --> 00:42:57,844
Dallas Burnett: Exactly.

954
00:42:58,074 --> 00:42:58,364
Yeah,

955
00:42:58,684 --> 00:43:00,454
Tony Miltenberger: Because if you
don't create a safe environment,

956
00:43:00,454 --> 00:43:01,654
nobody's gonna share anything.

957
00:43:01,654 --> 00:43:03,304
They're all gonna give you lip service.

958
00:43:03,664 --> 00:43:05,014
Now, here's the other thing.

959
00:43:05,254 --> 00:43:08,824
If you do create like this idea
of the culture and you begin to

960
00:43:08,884 --> 00:43:12,364
list out the values, then what
will happen is the people that

961
00:43:12,364 --> 00:43:14,014
don't fit will self-select out.

962
00:43:14,689 --> 00:43:15,289
Dallas Burnett: Yes.

963
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:16,159
Absolutely.

964
00:43:16,289 --> 00:43:18,239
Tony Miltenberger: and then they've just
done a lot of your hard work for you.

965
00:43:18,809 --> 00:43:19,529
Dallas Burnett: Exactly.

966
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:20,759
They're gonna get uncomfortable.

967
00:43:21,142 --> 00:43:21,622
Tony Miltenberger: it's a gift.

968
00:43:21,682 --> 00:43:23,122
I, it's a gift.

969
00:43:23,122 --> 00:43:25,432
I, there are companies that I work
with all the time that it's like,

970
00:43:25,432 --> 00:43:27,352
hey, I'll come in and they'll be,
I'll be like, Hey, you want me

971
00:43:27,352 --> 00:43:28,702
to take you guys down this path?

972
00:43:28,702 --> 00:43:29,662
And they'll like, yes.

973
00:43:29,812 --> 00:43:31,222
And we'll start working down the path.

974
00:43:31,222 --> 00:43:32,602
And the next thing somebody's gone.

975
00:43:32,962 --> 00:43:35,077
I. And they just don't want to do it.

976
00:43:35,137 --> 00:43:36,337
They just don't wanna do the work.

977
00:43:36,367 --> 00:43:37,357
And that's fine.

978
00:43:37,387 --> 00:43:38,917
I'm not making anybody do the work.

979
00:43:39,247 --> 00:43:42,937
But you just need to know, if we're
building a culture that's based around

980
00:43:42,937 --> 00:43:46,237
vulnerability based trust, and somebody
doesn't wanna be vulnerable, they're

981
00:43:46,237 --> 00:43:49,087
either gonna be leave, they're either
gonna leave or they're gonna be a

982
00:43:49,087 --> 00:43:51,407
cancer, and either way they gotta go.

983
00:43:52,322 --> 00:43:55,212
Dallas Burnett: That's so true and I'll
tell say this, there was a company we

984
00:43:55,212 --> 00:43:58,612
worked with, we have worked with for years
and they, we do their leadership summits.

985
00:43:58,612 --> 00:44:04,337
And the interesting thing was one
year they invited who I actually knew

986
00:44:04,367 --> 00:44:08,077
'cause I had met him in one of their
offices and, Was totally a toxic guy.

987
00:44:08,107 --> 00:44:11,957
Like, I mean, I would've recommended
they, that company fire him years earlier.

988
00:44:11,987 --> 00:44:17,207
Like I, I just, he was a drag as
big as the word drag could be.

989
00:44:17,207 --> 00:44:21,467
He was drag and and he was just so
not in alignment with the culture.

990
00:44:21,467 --> 00:44:23,537
Well then they invite him
to the leadership summit.

991
00:44:23,537 --> 00:44:26,267
I'm like, guys, are you
sure you wanna do this?

992
00:44:26,272 --> 00:44:28,147
Because this guy has not bought in.

993
00:44:28,207 --> 00:44:30,707
And you're bringing him into the
kind of the inner circle of the

994
00:44:30,707 --> 00:44:32,567
top 60 leaders in your company.

995
00:44:33,047 --> 00:44:34,037
Are you sure you wanna Yeah.

996
00:44:34,037 --> 00:44:37,292
No, he's gonna, he's gonna really,
that's gonna help him out, da da da.

997
00:44:37,937 --> 00:44:43,337
Well, um, he is done and the
day after the leadership summit,

998
00:44:43,337 --> 00:44:44,417
he turned in his resignation.

999
00:44:44,437 --> 00:44:45,127
Tony Miltenberger: Yeah.

1000
00:44:45,307 --> 00:44:45,517
Yep.

1001
00:44:45,657 --> 00:44:47,937
Dallas Burnett: said, look, if
this is what you guys are about,

1002
00:44:48,147 --> 00:44:50,547
like I've been hearing it for a
long time, but like he didn't, I

1003
00:44:50,547 --> 00:44:51,957
don't think he really believed it.

1004
00:44:52,227 --> 00:44:56,247
And then he got in the room with everybody
and he saw how bought in and in alignment

1005
00:44:56,247 --> 00:45:00,297
everybody was and what they believed and
how they were gonna move on that the next

1006
00:45:00,372 --> 00:45:00,587
and was like.

1007
00:45:01,317 --> 00:45:01,857
I don't want it.

1008
00:45:02,132 --> 00:45:02,352
Tony Miltenberger: Wow.

1009
00:45:02,427 --> 00:45:04,807
Dallas Burnett: was like, if we
could do that, there's about three

1010
00:45:04,807 --> 00:45:07,357
or four other people you need to
bring them next year because we'll

1011
00:45:07,357 --> 00:45:09,517
get them off the boat, man, let's go.

1012
00:45:09,517 --> 00:45:13,957
But to your point, it's like when you
create a culture that's really strong and

1013
00:45:13,957 --> 00:45:17,647
very much in alignment, then anybody that
doesn't fit that mold, or they're just

1014
00:45:17,647 --> 00:45:19,567
gonna, it's self eject because they can't

1015
00:45:19,567 --> 00:45:19,837
Tony Miltenberger: Yeah.

1016
00:45:19,842 --> 00:45:20,042
Dallas Burnett: it

1017
00:45:20,197 --> 00:45:22,447
Tony Miltenberger: One, one
of the stickies that I, I use

1018
00:45:22,447 --> 00:45:25,087
all the time is that common
language creates common movement.

1019
00:45:25,382 --> 00:45:25,862
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1020
00:45:26,117 --> 00:45:28,457
Tony Miltenberger: So we've
gotta create a common language

1021
00:45:28,517 --> 00:45:30,647
around the EQ parts of the work.

1022
00:45:30,947 --> 00:45:36,107
No matter if you're selling widgets
or you are a coach working with

1023
00:45:36,107 --> 00:45:37,517
Fortune 500 companies, right?

1024
00:45:37,517 --> 00:45:39,077
create a common language.

1025
00:45:39,387 --> 00:45:42,827
that's one of the things that, you
know, EOS or scaling up, they all

1026
00:45:42,827 --> 00:45:47,477
bring a language with them that then
everybody begins to u begins to use.

1027
00:45:47,477 --> 00:45:49,607
That changes kind of the
culture of the organization.

1028
00:45:50,062 --> 00:45:53,182
and you've gotta decide, are there extra
parts to this that you wanna make sure

1029
00:45:53,182 --> 00:45:56,682
that you incorporate in order to make
sure that you're thriving as a company?

1030
00:45:57,682 --> 00:45:58,162
Dallas Burnett: I love it.

1031
00:45:58,432 --> 00:45:58,972
I love it.

1032
00:45:59,332 --> 00:45:59,692
All right.

1033
00:45:59,692 --> 00:46:03,602
we need to, we need to know, I
want to, we, this has been the

1034
00:46:03,602 --> 00:46:04,562
best conversation by the way.

1035
00:46:04,562 --> 00:46:06,092
I just, this is, man, I

1036
00:46:06,292 --> 00:46:06,472
Tony Miltenberger: Dude, you're,

1037
00:46:06,492 --> 00:46:07,062
Dallas Burnett: I love it.

1038
00:46:07,307 --> 00:46:07,527
Tony Miltenberger: you

1039
00:46:07,602 --> 00:46:08,082
Dallas Burnett: I love it.

1040
00:46:08,237 --> 00:46:08,647
Tony Miltenberger: good at

1041
00:46:08,652 --> 00:46:09,102
Dallas Burnett: the book,

1042
00:46:09,357 --> 00:46:09,647
Tony Miltenberger: good.

1043
00:46:09,702 --> 00:46:10,842
Dallas Burnett: Nah, this has been great.

1044
00:46:10,842 --> 00:46:11,892
you're even better, dude.

1045
00:46:11,892 --> 00:46:13,782
You're like 400 episodes in.

1046
00:46:13,782 --> 00:46:14,802
Are you kidding me?

1047
00:46:14,967 --> 00:46:15,747
Tony Miltenberger: no better or worse.

1048
00:46:15,837 --> 00:46:17,397
I just got a lot more reps. That's it.

1049
00:46:17,397 --> 00:46:18,687
I've just got a lot more reps.

1050
00:46:19,407 --> 00:46:21,897
Dallas Burnett: I think it's awesome and
I enjoy being on your show too, and I,

1051
00:46:21,897 --> 00:46:27,067
so I want to tell people how they can
find more information out about Tony

1052
00:46:27,127 --> 00:46:29,257
and his book, and his show and all that.

1053
00:46:29,257 --> 00:46:30,217
How do people connect with you?

1054
00:46:30,292 --> 00:46:34,192
Tony Miltenberger: I often joke that
I'm embarrassingly easy to find and,

1055
00:46:34,242 --> 00:46:39,162
you could go to Wisdom in the wound
book.com and there's pre-orders there.

1056
00:46:39,162 --> 00:46:42,012
There's, we're giving away the
introduction and the forward right

1057
00:46:42,012 --> 00:46:45,532
now, if you sign up for email list,
there's also information about the

1058
00:46:45,532 --> 00:46:47,452
Follow Lead podcast and the follow lead.

1059
00:46:48,172 --> 00:46:48,922
Coaching.

1060
00:46:48,922 --> 00:46:53,512
And so I'm also really been humbled and
honored over the last couple of months

1061
00:46:53,512 --> 00:46:55,252
to do some corporate speaking events.

1062
00:46:55,252 --> 00:46:59,732
So if your organization is looking for
someone who can come in and deliver, I,

1063
00:46:59,737 --> 00:47:01,777
I give a keynote called Burn the Ships.

1064
00:47:02,257 --> 00:47:04,507
And it's all about looking in
the mirror and not going back.

1065
00:47:04,507 --> 00:47:08,487
And I love the opportunity to give
it so wisdom in the wound book.com.

1066
00:47:08,487 --> 00:47:12,162
I'm on Instagram at tw melt, T-W-M-I-L-T.

1067
00:47:13,452 --> 00:47:14,022
Dallas Burnett: All right.

1068
00:47:14,022 --> 00:47:15,672
All right, we'll put
those in the show notes.

1069
00:47:15,672 --> 00:47:17,142
So everybody, if you're
driving, don't worry.

1070
00:47:17,142 --> 00:47:19,282
You can check it out, when
you get where you're going.

1071
00:47:19,342 --> 00:47:24,772
And one last question we always ask
our guest is, who would you like

1072
00:47:24,772 --> 00:47:27,742
to hear as a guest on the last 10%?

1073
00:47:28,072 --> 00:47:30,882
Tony Miltenberger: Listen, I
have been reading, main Street

1074
00:47:30,882 --> 00:47:32,982
Millionaire by Cody Sanchez,

1075
00:47:33,417 --> 00:47:34,197
Dallas Burnett: nice.

1076
00:47:34,212 --> 00:47:37,902
Tony Miltenberger: fiercely and her
contrarian community that she's building.

1077
00:47:38,332 --> 00:47:40,672
some of that stuff is just so powerful.

1078
00:47:41,012 --> 00:47:45,322
I so listen, I think Cody's the real deal,
so you should try to get her 'cause she's

1079
00:47:45,322 --> 00:47:47,062
not responding to any of my messages.

1080
00:47:50,842 --> 00:47:54,412
Dallas Burnett: She is definitely a
country and she's definitely a force.

1081
00:47:54,502 --> 00:47:59,122
And man, I see your stuff all over
LinkedIn and so yeah, that is awesome.

1082
00:47:59,122 --> 00:48:02,872
we'll definitely have to reach out to
Cody and if we do get in touch drive, I'll

1083
00:48:02,872 --> 00:48:05,362
say, listen, why are you talking to me?

1084
00:48:05,362 --> 00:48:06,562
You need to be talking to Tony.

1085
00:48:06,562 --> 00:48:07,402
that's what we're gonna tell

1086
00:48:07,462 --> 00:48:09,202
Tony Miltenberger: We could,
Hey, look, we could record it

1087
00:48:09,262 --> 00:48:10,432
with her together if you want.

1088
00:48:10,432 --> 00:48:11,932
you get her, you'll get her.

1089
00:48:11,932 --> 00:48:14,632
We'll do a double show or
release it on both feeds.

1090
00:48:15,067 --> 00:48:15,357
Dallas Burnett: Okay.

1091
00:48:15,399 --> 00:48:17,529
Tony Miltenberger: we can go
back and forth and ask questions.

1092
00:48:17,554 --> 00:48:20,214
it would be a fun or even better.

1093
00:48:20,274 --> 00:48:22,244
Even better if you get Cody to come.

1094
00:48:22,424 --> 00:48:25,544
We should just do a live event and
bring both of our communities together.

1095
00:48:25,994 --> 00:48:26,744
Dallas Burnett: I love it.

1096
00:48:26,804 --> 00:48:27,224
ooh.

1097
00:48:27,254 --> 00:48:28,094
A live event.

1098
00:48:28,154 --> 00:48:28,874
You know what?

1099
00:48:29,684 --> 00:48:30,554
might be onto something

1100
00:48:30,854 --> 00:48:32,774
Tony Miltenberger: Think,
move, thrive Conference.

1101
00:48:33,014 --> 00:48:33,704
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.

1102
00:48:33,899 --> 00:48:35,549
Tony Miltenberger: By
follow the lead, let's go.

1103
00:48:35,732 --> 00:48:36,422
Dallas Burnett: you heard it.

1104
00:48:39,332 --> 00:48:41,732
You heard it here first on the last 10%.

1105
00:48:41,762 --> 00:48:43,352
There's some ideation going on.

1106
00:48:43,352 --> 00:48:44,732
It could be something dangerous.

1107
00:48:45,042 --> 00:48:47,922
man, Tony, thank you so much
for being on the show today.

1108
00:48:47,922 --> 00:48:49,602
I just appreciate you and your wisdom.

1109
00:48:49,602 --> 00:48:50,832
I think the leaders have had.

1110
00:48:51,047 --> 00:48:52,637
a lot of lessons to that.

1111
00:48:52,637 --> 00:48:53,927
They can, there's so many takeaways.

1112
00:48:53,927 --> 00:48:55,097
I can't even, I got my notes here.

1113
00:48:55,097 --> 00:48:56,807
I've been scribbling down
that you've been talking.

1114
00:48:56,807 --> 00:48:57,647
It's just so good.

1115
00:48:57,887 --> 00:48:58,427
So good.

1116
00:48:58,427 --> 00:48:59,987
So thank you for being on
the show, sharing all your

1117
00:48:59,987 --> 00:49:00,947
wisdom with our listeners.

1118
00:49:00,947 --> 00:49:04,927
Good luck on the book launch and book
tour, and we just wish you the best and

1119
00:49:04,927 --> 00:49:08,497
we'll have to have you back on when we
get Cody on for, for a live session.

1120
00:49:08,662 --> 00:49:09,322
Tony Miltenberger: I love it.

1121
00:49:09,322 --> 00:49:09,832
Thanks brother.

1122
00:49:09,832 --> 00:49:11,902
I appreciate you and
your community so much.

1123
00:49:11,902 --> 00:49:13,372
I can't wait to see what the future holds.

1124
00:49:13,987 --> 00:49:14,647
Dallas Burnett: Sounds good.