Welcome to the Complete Game podcast, where we're all about baseball with Ethan Dungan, owner of Glovehound Baseball glove repair shop.

Rick Finley, founder of MDNI Baseball Academy and the creator of George Foster Baseball, the MVP himself, Reds hall of Famer George Foster.

I'm your host, Greg Dungan.

Now let's talk baseball.

So this week, we're talking about outfielding specifically.

We wanted to go into the fielding category, and we thought what better to start with than outfielding specifically.

Mainly because, George, you played outfield, and because we're trying to tackle a certain problem, and that is that outfield gets a bad rap, especially when you're a kid, because not much happens out there, and it can get.

You can get bored out there, and you can start to feel like maybe you got punished by sending people sending you out there.

And we want to turn that around and kind of talk about how important it is to have a great outfield, how important it is to specialize in certain skills and what opportunities can open up to you because you did.

So we're going to see how to see the outfield as an opportunity.

That's the title of the episode.

But we're going to start off first with name five.

Now, the first week, Rick had to go first, and he ate up all the good choices.

Last week, we let George go first, so Rick didn't take all his people.

So this week, Ethan, you get to go first.

So he'll name all of the great outfielders from the last five minutes, and then the rest of us can talk about baseball.

Yes.

There you go.

All right, well, I'll.

I'll start off with a not so current.

My number one is Ichiro Suzuki.

Oh, that's what I got down.

I had.

I had a feeling.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

He just a guy who embodies the position offensively and defensively.

Ten Gold Gloves, it's.

It's hard to argue with that.

And man just had an absolute rocket for an arm.

And that's gonna be the theme of my list is the rocket is the rocket arm.

Yes.

There's not really much else to say about each row.

I mean, everybody knows.

Everybody knows it already.

Number two is our friend, Vladimir Guerrero Sr.

Yes.

Vlad had a cannon.

We should.

We should have brought him up last week.

I don't know if we did or not, but talk about a guy who didn't care about the strike zone.

I did.

I did.

Yes.

He could protect his own zone.

Yeah.

Ye.

Swing and everything, but he had.

He had an absolute cannon for an arm.

It's really fun to watch out there and.

And played out there for a long time, too.

Number two and.

Or, no, I'm sorry, number three and number four.

I'm gonna lump them together for a specific reason.

Number three is Joanna Cespedus.

And.

Okay, four is Yasio Puig.

Now, the reason is because there was a time when I was playing in about 2013, 2014, that it seemed like every week one of those dudes was throwing somebody out from right field to third or from left to home, and I ate that up.

I was watching sports every time they had one of those throws, and I didn't even play outfield.

And I wanted to be those guys.

Yes, absolutely.

Those are great choices, man.

Those guys did have arms.

And then my last guy is Billy Hamilton.

Oh, I mean, and he's not so much an arm as much as range.

I mean, he could.

He had range.

If I had to pick one outfielder, like if I could only have one outfielder and out there, and rather than three, I would pick Billy Hamilton.

He would be my guy because he just pulled in absolutely everything.

And he was so much fun to watch out there.

Started at shortstop.

Yes, he did.

And he went to the outfield.

This guy could, like you say he could run, he could covered a whole ground out there.

Whatever the Pacific Ocean didn't cover, he covered.

I know another Red shortstop who probably ought to be.

Yes.

All right, Rick, who you got?

Well, better not say.

Ken Griffey Jr.

At his prime, dog.

He was a beast, especially in the 90s.

Yes, he was a beast, man.

He can go get it, man.

Climb the wall, everything Gold Gloves.

And then my next guy is Mookie.

Mookie bats, man.

Mookie, he.

He's a run saver, especially playing before he got traded to the Dodgers.

When he is, he played right field a lot at Boston.

Yes.

And saving six Gold Gloves.

And still going.

Yes, still going.

Oh, this going back to the Reds days, man.

Eric Davis.

Yeah, Eric Davis was my guy, man.

I like Eric, man.

He just embodied everything, man.

He was cool like you.

Yeah.

Ricky Henderson I like, because my son Ricky is kind of pattern his game after Ricky a little bit from the hitting to the outfield and stuff like that.

And my last is kind of grouped together.

Older guys.

Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente.

Oh, man.

Do you have a list?

Willie Mays, are they coming up from the arm talent to over the shoulder?

Everybody used to do that.

And so when I was teaching my son Ricky how to play outfield, he, you know, he had a Range and stuff.

And those are the guys that, you know, you kind of pattern your outfield after.

And then another guy played with George.

This is probably a six guy.

Cesar.

Oh, you go and caught your group somebody.

Now you're gonna have six.

Okay.

Just breaking the rules.

I'm cut off.

Okay.

I'm a rule breaker.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give an official rules.

Yes.

Declaration here.

Okay.

Okay.

Yes, do that.

George, Anytime somebody takes your people, if you played with them, you can have them too.

That's the way it works.

Oh, that'll be cool.

Yeah, because they don't know much, as much as I.

That's right.

So you have Willie Mays back there you go.

Yeah.

Say, hey, kid.

Yes, sir.

No, that was.

I know it goes way back, but, you know, everybody knows he heard the name Willie Mays.

And, and the thing is about Willie Mays, of course, the center fielder, right?

He's really the captain of the outfield and he should be calling for the ball, but Willie Mays wouldn't call for the ball.

So I'm playing left field and I'm like, please don't hit the ball to left center because Willie Mays and George Foster may collide.

And maybe George Foster's last game, matter of fact, the Giants had a left fielder.

Him and Willie Mays collided.

And the next year he was playing in Japan.

So I said I wasn't ready to go to Japan at the time, but Willie Mays, you know, he patrolled that outfield and I mean, he was flashy out there, but he took a ball that maybe is an ordinary play, make it look extraordinary and having a good arm, but he's always in control.

And so I just love watching him play.

But that, like I said, good arm, good instinct, great speed out there and great control.

The other guys, Roberto Clemente, when you hit a ball down the right field line, just stay at first base.

Because he would wheel and throw the ball at first.

You don't know it's on you so quickly and.

But just watching him, how I look at him as a, like a what, gazelle out in the outfield, man, he didn't seem like he's going to get to it, but he could get to it under control.

But I had first seen Clemente at Dodger Stadium and the Giant, the Dodgers, that ended up winning the game, and Roberto Clemente threw the ball over fence into the outfield because.

Into the parking lot rather, because he had.

He was upset.

I said, wow, what a great arm.

Then we had all heard all the alarms go off when he hit those cars.

But now we come back.

But this other guy, nobody really talked much about color.

Vito, he played.

I remember we went with the Indians.

He wasn't known for his bat or anything.

That's extraordinary.

But that arm had a gun for an arm like, like Ethan was talking about Ichiro and those guys really fire the ball.

But this guy is.

Finally got into the hall of Fame.

Dave Parker.

And I think, yeah, in the, in the All Star game, he threw two guys out and at third and at home.

And those guys, you don't really want to dare as far as trying to score.

And then plus you trying to score at home.

And then you have a catcher like say a Johnny Bench or, or Gary Carter.

Gary.

Oh, Gary Carter.

Yeah.

No, I was going to talk about a Dodger catchers.

You don't want to have to run into a Dodger catcher because you may have to be on an honest stretcher afterwards.

Those guys, they, they want to hurt you up there.

Not only get you out, but hurt you.

And now we go to Dave Winfield.

Another guy was like 6, 8.

This guy could have played football, basketball, but he chose baseball.

It could have gone pro.

I mean, pro in, in those certain areas.

Yes, but what a gun for an arm.

They put him in right field, but I love watching him throw.

But I knew those guys.

That's why I think it encouraged me to hit home runs.

So I have to, I don't have to run against those guys.

But you have maybe a third base coach.

He may not like you, so he's going to intentionally say, go.

The worst part is that the, the.

The catcher has the ball.

So what are you going to do?

Are you going to run across the mound, back to second?

But I've seen that happen.

The guy runs across the mound, back to second base.

What is he doing?

This is crazy.

I don't know where this guy's from.

No, but those guys were very entertaining.

And watch like in the All Star Game.

Last but not least, in the All Star Game, you had Dave Parker, Dave Winfield and a guy named Reggie Smith.

Those guys, I mean, they're talking about the ball takes off.

That ball was taken off and I was another outfielder gonna throw.

I said, no, I don't feel like throwing today.

I may hit the.

I may be able to get to the cutoff man, but these guys was throwing the ball over the catcher's head.

And I said, I just love watching.

Just come watch them take infield.

And that was entertainment in Itself.

Yes.

That's great.

Yeah, the.

One of the.

One of the cool robbing plays that I watched over the weekend while I was doing my research was when Tori Hunter robbed one off.

Rob one from Barry Bob.

Yeah, that was.

That was nice.

That was.

That was beautiful.

So, okay, so I'm going to give some love to.

To the guys from my era.

Not a lot of.

Not a lot of hall of Famers.

There's a few of them in this list, but these are the guys when we were playing in the backyard, we're like, oh, I want to be this guy.

Oh, I want to be that guy.

Right.

So.

And.

And Ethan, it's.

It's interesting because he grew up in a whole different era of baseball where you could get on television and you could see National League or American League, all kind of thing.

And when I was a kid, man, we grew up in the NL Central and in the NL entirely.

Yes.

So.

Because you could only see what was on three channels on television.

Right.

So there was, you know, you couldn't watch a lot of.

A lot of these.

Right.

Just five.

So it's funny because he'll look at me and be like, your baseball world is so small.

And I'm like, well, yeah, because that's all we had when I was a kid.

So I'm going to my.

I have long.

I have more than five.

Go ahead.

But I'm.

Rick had.

Okay.

I should have went for seven.

All right, so I'm going to run down the National League of the guys that I remember who typified each team as we go down.

So the Twins.

That's Kirby Puckett.

Oh, yeah, we're talking about Kirby now.

Kirby's all favorite.

I thought I was going to score.

And here comes Kirby throwing a beating to the plate.

And like, I'm between home and third base.

What should I do, Just go in a manhole or what?

But that guy could throw.

Yeah, he could.

Yeah, he could.

Kirby Puckett was a chunk.

He was good.

Yes.

And then see Kevin Mitchell.

I remember Kevin Mitchell as a Giant.

So it was the later 80s there when I remember, after he was in New York, I remember him with the Giants.

But my favorite Kevin Mitchell moment.

Okay.

You know, he misjudged it.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'm going.

So I think it was.

It was Ozzy Smith hits the ball opposite field.

It's taken off to the left field corner.

Yes.

And Mitchell's chasing it and then reaches up with his bare hand.

Right?

Yes.

Remember that?

1989.

I will never Forget that game.

It was.

I didn't see the game, but I saw the highlights because by then everybody had cable, so I was able to see the highlights.

But my goodness, what a play.

And what was funny is the.

The announcer says, yeah, Willie May said he's been working with him on that.

I don't know.

And so then I read a thing afterwards and Mitchell said, Willie called him after the game and said, I didn't teach you to do that.

What are you doing out there?

So, yeah, that was cool.

And again, Eric Davis with the Reds.

Eric Davis was.

Was the guy I remember the most with the Reds.

The.

With the Cubs.

That was Andre Dawson.

We're back to Andre Dawson.

That guy was just tough.

The Braves, there's only one.

It's Dale Murphy.

I mean, Dale Murphy was from.

Yeah, he dominated the 80s for the Braves when I was a kid.

The Padres.

That was Tony Gwyn.

Yes.

The Pirates.

I see.

I remember Dave Parker as a Pirate, even though he was only a pirate till 83.

But he.

Yeah, but I.

He's.

He was a pirate for 10 years.

I mean, 73, from the day I was born till, you know, 83, when I was 10 years old.

So I remember Dave Parker as a Pirate.

Yeah.

The biggest, fastest man I ever seen.

Yeah.

This guy get low to the grass going with Willie Davis with the Dodger.

These guys call it three dog as far as Willie, Dave.

But they park.

Get low to the ground, but I would hate to be a shortstop or second baseman.

He's coming down like.

Time out, time out.

The Phillies.

That was Gary Maddox.

Oh, great.

Yeah.

And I were signed by the same.

Same scout.

Oh, tell me.

We grew up together and so we're.

He.

He was from, well, California area.

And Gary Matthews, the other guy.

Yeah, look at this.

Ethan would know, though, because it's already let the cat out of the bag.

So you had Matthews, Maddox and Foster.

So who played where?

So I played center field with those guys.

Oh, my goodness.

I would tell them what to do, but no, that was something.

Gary Maddox.

This guy could.

But he had those long strides and great arm, and he was like Geronimo.

He.

He had a lively ball and a heavy ball, and I always had to play catch with him.

And I try to play burnout with him, but I always lose out.

But Matthews, Maddox and Foster was saying, signed by this guy named George Genovese, but, yeah, Maddox, great player.

More.

I say more for the Phillies.

Yeah, he was a Philly as far as I knew.

Yeah, same here.

Yeah, yeah, same here.

All right.

And then that leaves us with the Cardinals.

And I could not narrow it down.

So I got Vince Coleman and Willie McGee.

Yeah, I like both of them.

That is tough.

Both of them.

I like both of them.

That's kind of.

I couldn't pick.

Both of those guys were just so tough.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then the Expos.

That was Tim Rains.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, go ahead.

No, I was going to say Ellis Valentine.

Oh, yeah.

He had this guy Cannon.

Yeah.

But I'm.

Yes, I'm thinking Cruise.

I felt good.

It was in spring training.

And the balls hit the right field.

So I'm on first is I'm going to third base.

But as I'm going towards third base, I see an object go past me.

And when I get to third, I realize it's the baseball.

I'm like, oh, I didn't know this guy could throw that well.

So I found out the hard way.

Let's see the Dodgers.

That was Pedro Guerrero.

Ooh.

Okay.

Was the guy I remember his outfield for.

Yeah, he was an outfielder.

The Astros.

The guy I remember out there was Jose Cruz.

Oh, yeah, the Cruz brothers, man, there's a lot of them dudes.

Let's bring up CC Stacey.

Cesar Sedano.

Yeah.

Yes.

This guy had five tools until he messed up his ankle at first.

Basement.

This guy could run.

He was red for a while, too.

Yeah, we called.

He didn't run.

He galloped out there and then.

So in with the Mets, it was the.

It was the three of you.

It was you and Strawberry and Mookie Wilson.

Strawberry.

Yeah.

I'll give it to Strawberry.

The.

Strawberry was the one I remember most.

I can see him now just cranking it from that right field corner and just let.

Unleash it.

But he's so smooth.

Talk about a guy with just so much natural talent.

Yes.

And sometimes it's.

It's not good because they don't work as hard to get better.

Yeah.

And I always tell guys, you know, better, your best.

I mean, you think wherever level you are, try to get to that next level.

But Strawberry, that guy had hall of Fame potential.

But certain things are decision making, bad decision making, off field stuff.

Got a quick question for George.

Did you ever play with Daryl Boston or he.

Okay, so Daryl.

I used to play against Daryl coming up.

He went to Woolworth, went to the high school that I went to and I went to.

He had a twin brother.

A lot of people.

So I didn't know that maybe I was talking to the brother.

I went to school with his brother.

His sister Is both his brothers and his sister.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

But Duro had a.

Duro had a cannon.

So I just want to.

And I know Daryl was drafted by the Mets, believe or White Sox.

White Sox, yeah.

Yeah.

The.

The other name I just remember as a met a lot was Lenny Dykstra.

You just remember name.

It was what we call him like, I guess it like Crusher because he would run into anything and he come back bleeding or black eye or whatever.

But he's going to catch that ball.

Yeah.

I mean he was gonzo everywhere.

I mean he just, you know, 90 miles an hour in every direction, it seemed like every time.

But intensity.

He had that intensity all the time.

And I got a couple of.

Of American League mentions because you just could not avoid knowing about these guys.

Number one was Ricky Anderson.

Everybody knew about Ricky Anderson.

Right.

Even if you couldn't watch the A's play a game, we all knew about Ricky Anderson.

And then Bo Jackson with the.

Oh, that's the guy that runs up the wall.

Oh, my leg.

I mean, you talk about probably, I don't know, probably the most gifted athlete I've ever seen in my lifetime.

I mean, just unbelievable.

Some of the stuff that he did as a, as a baseball player and he's mostly known by, for, you know, his football work.

But that's what I loved him as an athlete because he was power football, power baseball.

Yes.

And you don't, you don't want to have to tackle him.

This guy could run.

Yes.

And then of course in baseball, he, he would clobber the ball and.

But I just see him running up that wall and stay on balance like that.

That is crazy.

Well, there are some wild YouTube videos of him doing throwouts.

So if you ever want to watch out.

Just being clear in the right field corner and gunning somebody at the base.

I mean, just not even, not even a chance.

And he didn't, he didn't even have a long.

And he played left too.

So you're throwing home and all that.

I mean, but he didn't play much baseball when we were younger.

No, he didn't.

So yeah, until he played for Auburn.

And that's the most baseball he played when he was in college.

Yeah.

I did come across one very interesting Ricky Henderson stat.

The catcher that threw Ricky Henderson out more than anybody else, huh?

Pudge?

Nope.

No.

Well, probably unknown.

I don't.

It was Bob Boone with.

Oh, really?

Bob Boone threw through what I wrote what I read on online.

Bob Boone seemed to have Ricky Anderson's number.

He threw him out more times than anybody else from what I found.

Now, was Bob Boone at the time, was he with the Phillies or was he with the Royals, Angels or Angels?

I don't know because he would have played.

He would have played mostly against Henderson if he was an American League, so.

But they were both in the National League, too.

I just don't know if they were in the National League at the same time.

I just read it was this article about this one catcher seemed to have his number and seem to be able to throw him out.

That's the name from the past.

Yeah.

See now and.

But then we grew up in Red's land with Aaron Boone and Brett Boone.

So, you know.

Yeah, I like Brett.

Boom, man.

So anyway, those are some.

Some pretty good.

That's a great list.

So you finished the season last year exhausted from all the travel and the tournaments, and you tossed your gear in a bag where it's been sitting all winter.

Now you're ready for another year.

But your favorite glove that fits just right is an error waiting to happen.

The leather is dry, the laces are brittle, and this year you're on a new team with new colors.

And it sure would be cool if it matched.

Well, wouldn't it be great if you had a glove guy who could help you out with that?

You do.

His name is Ethan and he owns Glovehound baseball glove repair shop in Fairfield, Ohio.

Just contact him@glovehound.com and upload pictures of your glove.

He'll give you a call back to talk it over and then you can send it in for a repair.

Relays, recondition, whatever you need.

If you're in the area, you can even just stop by the shop.

That way you don't have to bother with shipping.

And a lot of times he can even fix it while you wait.

Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno, All Star, Nakona, he's seen them all.

And he's helped players at all levels, from beginners to pros.

Last year he worked on a glove that Jose Trevino used in the World Series.

And he can help you, too.

You can find Glovehound on Google, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and on the web@glovehound.com you're only going to get busier.

So reach out today and give your glove the love it deserves at Glovehound.

All right, so I want to move on here to our main thing and we've got a series of questions that we're going to kick around.

The first one is that is an interesting question.

I'm asking what opportunities might open up to young players when they embrace playing the outfield.

In other words.

And they said they I don't.

Instead of getting stuck in the outfield, they get so you're turning a half two into a get to.

Anytime you can Turn a half 2 into a get to, that's a.

That's a good situation.

So if you can say I have to play the outfield and you can turn that into I get to play the outfield and you embrace it.

What kind of opportunities might open up for a person like that?

I would say it's looking at as being positive and that you're.

You're a team player.

And I usually I look at a guy that.

Who's athletic number one.

That's fast.

Yes.

That's great speed.

And so I'm looking for that center fielder.

A guy had a great arm.

I'm put him in rifle.

But make them feel valuable and finding.

Finding a position that's going to help him to become successful and but teaching them how to like they were talking about Trout moving the right and talking about Dominguez.

I think moving to left.

I laugh at the fact that because he lost the ball in the sun the other day and I mean it's not easy.

Before they were saying oh, anybody can play the outfield.

But they find not.

That's not the truth.

That's true.

But being able to catch the ball out of the sun, it's.

It's a certain technique to do it.

I learned that from Willie Mays.

If not, you know, you got to wear catchers a gear out there.

Getting hit in the head, being able to have something that's.

So that ball hit.

Hit the ball.

The ball hit that certain area.

It bounced straight up so the opposite field fielder could get it.

But it takes a lot of work and somebody who knows how to play the outfield being able to teach it.

Yes.

And.

But everybody take it lightly that oh you just go to the outfield, catch a fly ball and catch a ground ball.

What's so big deal about that?

It's just how the ball's going slice catching like to catching the ball out of the sun and then checking the wind if it's blowing in, blowing out the ball down the line things and such.

And then your.

Your footwork.

I mean that's when we talked about we're going to do outfield play.

I got more excited talking about that outfield than.

Than hitting because there's so many aspects of the game playing the outfield and it's the last line of defense.

Yes, that's it.

And you know, if the ball gets past you, like, forget about it.

But.

But you have a guy like Geronimo.

We didn't talk about Geronimo being in the outfield.

Yes.

So I made a contract with Geronimo.

I said I'm going to stand right one foot from the foul line.

You have the rest of the area there, so you can just run like a gazelle out there.

But no, we had a great core with Dramaland center and Griffey and Wright, and I was in left because they needed nine players, so they put me out there.

So.

But no, but playing the outfield, it's an art to it.

Yes.

And I enjoyed it.

Yes.

My dad was an outfielder, so I learned a lot about playing the outfield.

My, My son Ricky was an outfielder, so he learned a lot, taught him a lot about playing the outfield.

Like George said, it is the line, the last line of defense.

Outfield actually could be good, but at the same time, you do have to some tools.

You got to work on it.

Grass.

We taught our guys how to pick the grass up and see how the wind is growing so you can, you can break on the ball.

A lot of agility drills, I think a lot of people don't do a lot of sprint work.

I'm very keen on doing sprint work, doing agility, you know, throwing the ball up, catching it over your shoulders, throw it to your glove, side door to your, you know, working on things like that.

Reading.

Another, another skill is understanding the ground and how it bounces and how balls move through the ground if it's wet, guess what?

You don't want to run straight across you banana and get behind the ball.

So of course the ball don't skid past you.

A lot of, lot of different things, clouds, sun, you know, wearing glass sunglasses and things like that.

So I spend a lot of time in a lot of time developing outfield play.

I really do.

And I look at my outfielders as track stars, you know, guys, because you want guys to be able to cover ground on both sides from the left side center here, you know, I would say, and make plays, make diving plays, make her roaring plays if you have to, you know, and then teaching your outfielders how to communicate, how to back each other up.

So it's a lot of skill that goes into that also.

I think it says what opportunities might open up for young players.

I think once you, once players start learning how to drive the ball, then it's even more of an importance.

And then probably around 11 and 12, when kids get a little bit stronger and can drive the ball to the outfield versus 9 and 10 year olds, because then you have to.

A lot of 9 and 10 year olds probably can't do that.

So of course it might be boring out there for them.

So that's why it's important to move kids around so they can understand the game and the positions and stuff like that.

But in the outfield, you gotta let them know you gotta be somewhere all the time.

Yes, you gotta be moving.

I took, probably when I'm playing left field, the balls hit down the right field line, I'm backing up third base, and there were a couple of times that I'm backing up third base, the ball got past the third baseman and the third base coach didn't see I was back there.

So he was just telling the guy, go, go, go.

And I'm standing right there, said, nope, I gotcha.

So, so now it's just up to me to make a good throw to the catcher.

But you, you gotta know where to go.

And I see a lot of guys just standing there.

They're not backing up, third backing up, they're out the fellow outfielder you got.

There's some place you need to be other than standing in one place.

Yes, and talking too.

Like if you got, if you're going towards the line, okay, first baseman, because you got the Bermuda Triangle, I would say you're going towards the line.

And again, you playing left field or third baseman, shortstop, gone, you got to let them know, fence, fence, fence, you know how to reach or you know, or whatever.

You got to communicate those things.

That's another big thing of playing an outfield.

Talking.

Right.

When you mention it being boring, I mean, I think that's definitely the reputation that it gets, but I think it's one of those things that you can make it as boring or not boring as you want to as the player attitude.

There you go.

I think first it starts with the coaches.

Like you were saying, somebody has to teach them all of the little intricacies.

And if, if no one ever teaches you that, then it's very boring because you're just standing out there waiting to go back.

Right.

But just because the ball's not hit to you doesn't mean there's not something to be doing.

And I think given the young kids all of the little assignments and the checklist to go through in their head really makes that a lot less boring.

And you can turn something that was boring into something that is action packed.

If you always have something to be doing.

Let me ask you guys about this.

So if, if a kid, who, if a kid decides, all right, look, I've got some speed, got some range.

I'm really going to embrace this outfield thing.

Going to a tryout, when you go to a tryout, we've all been to these.

Every kid wants to play an infield position, right?

Every kid thinks he's a shortstop.

Every kid wants, okay, if you're the kid that says, no, no, no, man, put me in right field, put me in left field, I eat fly balls for breakfast, I want to do this.

Do you think that opens up an opportunity for them to make a team where they may not have that opportunity before?

Yeah, for sure.

Yes, sir.

But the other aspect is a lot of them don't want to play the outfield because their, their arm, you got to help them strengthen their arm.

Yes, but the, I guess the, the important one is though, letting them know it's, it's important for the team and, and increase the value.

Said this is important for, to have you out there because you have good speed, you have good arm, have good instinct.

So this is going to really help our defense by your being there.

So it's just building up the fact that it's important.

Not just that.

Well, you know, odd man out, so you're, you're in the outfield.

But I look, especially when I was coming to pro ball, playing center field, it showed that I had the responsibility not only to play the outfield, but to move the left field, the right field, so you'd be in the right spot.

And that was great with, with Geronimo.

So a guy has two strikes, I see today, a guy has two strikes, the center field doesn't move.

So if a guy's right handed has two strike, we move toward right field.

There you go.

So now you get that edge.

But someone just stay in the same spot playing straight away and now a ball they almost caught end up missing.

But we had great communication out there and knowing that, okay, a guy, well, we talked earlier before about knowing that the guy is a pull hitter, but knowing if it's pull on the ground or pull in the air.

And then if a ball is hit the left center on the ground, see Geronimo being left handed, it's going to be maybe easier for me to catch, go after that ball and make that spin and throw.

Compared to him, he's going to end up going farther to, to slow down.

But we had great communication there and, and it's talking letting one Know, and like I said, I had a great time when I'm playing left field or right field.

Positioning, that's another part, just positioning a ball hit down the left field line.

You see a lot of guys, they don't go into that corner correctly.

And the guy talk about that, how.

Do you, how do you go into a corner correctly?

So now the balls hit down, they say the left field line and you have a right hander there.

Some guys go in and, and instead of backhanding the ball in, in, in there, in the down the line, they go in and try to catch it and.

But their front side is not, oh, I mean, it's closed.

But if I backhand it now, I take my right foot and step towards the target.

That, that helps me to not only make a good throw, but an accurate throw.

And, but a lot of guys go down there and they catch it with their glove say to facing up compared to a backhand.

And now they're throwing against their body, I mean, throwing against the body and they're not having a good throw.

But I, I would ask a kid, I said one year a kid led the league and assist and the next next year he didn't.

So why not?

They'd say, I don't know.

Well, because they stopped running on that guy.

So the same thing down the right field line, you go in, catch it and spin.

But if you go in and you're falling away, because I watch these guys in practice, you know, infield practice, they don't do that much today.

Infield practice, how are they catching the ball?

Yes, and the other thing is catching the ball on your gloves, on your throwing side.

A lot of them catch it on your glove side.

It takes time.

So I know that the guy's going to catch it on his glove side.

So I'm going to take that next base and.

But that makes a big difference in the game.

I got a question for you, George, on that.

So did you guys, or did one of your coaches or even the players, you go to a different field, did someone like hit balls in the corner so you can see how to play the ball off the corner, off the wall and things like that?

My, my outfield coach, George Sugar, every game.

Yes, because the situation will change if it's says windy or the sun.

But, but also get yourself acclimated again about, okay, how the ball is going to come off the wall.

So he hits me ground balls down the line or hit me balls off the wall.

Because like in Fenway, the ball depends on where it's going to hit part of his concrete.

Some of it's made of another material.

The ball comes straight down.

And just seeing the surface, because you go to Atlanta, they play football there.

Atlanta, that's like concrete.

Yeah.

So you got knowing that.

Okay, okay.

You're going to be little defensive, you know, not being as aggressive.

And then you go to an astroturf field like Cincinnati, you know, if a ball's hit up in the air like a Texas leader, play back.

Because you play in that ball is going to bounce over your head.

Yes.

And you go to.

Or go to Houston, they have what I call zippers on the field.

It hit a zipper and now it's like serpentine going down, down the field.

And everybody thinks you had a bad night because the way you're running out the ball.

But in Houston, you got to try to read.

Read where the ball is going to go because according to that zipper.

But it's a.

Like said, different aspects.

You got to think about and not just standing out there and.

And hoping the ball is going to be hit.

Even if the ball is hit to you, what do you throw it?

What was it like to play the ivy in Wrigley Field?

I try not to get close to it.

I didn't know.

I don't know if Andre Dawson's coming out there.

But it was funny when they had those commercials.

They reach in there.

Hey, Andre.

Hey, Billy.

But I don't.

I don't know.

Cause you go in there and somebody back to Lenny Dykstra, he would go in there, he'd get thorns all in his face and his neck.

Like, what is this guy, like Frankenstein coming out of there?

But no, I tried to just play it off the wall if the ball's hidden in that ivy.

And plus, I don't know if it's poured in ivy or what.

I mean, it's.

It's thing of beauty to watch.

But being able to play it didn't.

The ball may get lodged in there.

Yeah.

Just pointing there.

I'm not going to stick my hand in there.

Somebody may be in there, you know, Freddy Krueger or somebody's in there.

The other, the other opportunity that, that occurred to me the other day is, you know, to think if.

If specializing in the outfield gives you the opportunity to make the team, it might also give you an opportunity at more regular playing time.

Like for you get at bats.

Yeah.

So when you.

When you went to left field and.

And when Rose moved in, that became.

That was the beginning of you playing like every day.

Right.

Well, that was the beginning of the big bad red machine because now I'm inserted into the lineup and there's more offense there.

I look back, I said I really felt sorry for the opposition you had in the middle of that lineup.

Three guys could bat forth in any, on any team.

Foster, Perez and bench.

So now if Perez make an out now the guy there's, there's bench and then now, now they think they're, they're home free.

But no, George Force is coming up to bat now and he doesn't play.

So.

But you know, that did open up an opportunity for me and.

But the opportunity was opened up by Pete going to third base, right?

And because he had gone from second base to the outfield then, now he goes back to the infield.

But that helps the ball club being able to have guys to be able to play other position but do it.

I've one guy, Daryl Thomas, he played every position, he played every position like he was an all star.

And I said, Daryl, that is great being able to be.

If you have first time you seen him play, you think that that was his natural position.

But the bottom line though, you got to work at it and you got to want it.

Yes.

Well, that brings up another interesting point is not only can it open up the opportunity to make the team and the opportunity to get regular playing time, it opens up the opportunity to get more at bats which then makes you a better hitter.

Right?

And plus if you're just dh, you know, you label that, you know, you don't have any defensive skills.

So.

But it opens up the fact then, then a guy who's not fast or have a good arm, he can be the dh.

So the, the manager has, has more choices and being able to put you in, in that position because I said I played a lot of right field with the Reds because Griffin I platoon and then I moved to left field.

So.

Well, I started like I said earlier, playing center field, but in little league I played shortstop.

Then I played center field, but I love center field because I know you had more responsibility but I love that challenge because I said if the ball's not over the fence and it's in the air, I'm going to catch it.

So I had a, I would dare myself making sure that you, you cut the ball off or you, you catch the ball so that you know that you great defense and then moving my outfield as you know, okay, I would tell a guy to, okay, I want to move towards the line.

The left hander's hitting and the Ball is going to hook toward the line or like a slice towards the line.

And they look at me like, okay, they trust my judgment because I, I played all those positions before.

So that's the other part is being able to learn how to play all the outfield position because the ball's going to, to make a different moving movement because the right hander, you're in center field, they say, yeah, center field is easier because you can see the ball better.

But still it's going to help you when you go to one corner, corner outfield.

Talk to me a little bit about how outfielders help the rest of the team with things like stopping the base runners and helping the pitcher and things like that.

Like a lot of times kids might think outfield all you do is deal with fly balls.

But there's a lot to being an outfielder that actually controls.

Like for instance, when you go to those young, young ages where there's a thousand stolen bases a game, right.

You know, maybe it's that last coach pitch or that first kid pitch and there's just stealing all over the place.

Kids running everywhere.

Like, how can your outfielders help to stop all that, stop your team from getting run all over and how can they be helping your pitcher?

Number one is that learn to hit the cutoff man and then catching the ground ball.

I teach about five different ways to catching the ground ball and it depends on the score.

So now you're say ahead in the game and the outfield is rough, so you want to get down on your throwing tight knee to block the ball.

You know, you're really in a defensive position.

But some try to play the ball like they're playing the infield or did they ball end up getting past him?

Now the guy stood up in that first base and setting up a double play.

Now he's at second base.

So being able to make the the ordinary plays extraordinarily well.

And knowing where to throw the ball.

A lot of times they don't know how to throw the ball.

And that's back to situational play.

Yes.

You know, where do you throw the ball?

A man on second base.

Know how the fly balls hit to you?

Where do you throw the ball?

Some throw it to seconds.

No, you know, don't throw it behind the guy in front, in front.

But some of them don't know that.

And so that will cost Costa a was a base running or outfield mistake and not a guy advanced third base.

Now guys at third base with one out and then a ground ball, fly ball, pass ball that's where I scored in 72.

Pass, ball, pitch.

But now he's at third base with one out compared to being at second base.

So that makes a difference.

And like say hitting the cutoff man, backing up.

We said earlier, backing up the outfield, backing up the infield because the ball may get passed pass, but you're still standing in your position.

Now the guy advances.

But a throw to second base like Ricky Henderson throwing second, going to second, you get there to throw, it's an overthrow.

But at least you can keep him at second base on that overthrow.

And not hesitating.

But you got to know what you got to anticipate.

Yes.

Know where to go right away.

Not wait.

And like I said, I've seen so many balls from hit down the right field or the left field line and the, the.

The guys are not backing up and.

But it starts also with the, the infield like the first basement.

The balls hit the outfield and now the first base is supposed to be the trailer.

Yes.

But sometimes he's not trailing.

But I remember, you know, being in that in the corner, you know, but you have to.

Sometimes you're using your peripheral vision.

You're knowing where to you already knowing, okay, this guy's fast.

I'm not going to give him that second.

But I want to make sure I hit the cutoff man, the COVID man.

Become the pit, the first basement.

Yes.

So now you threw this.

But back in the dog mad and alive.

But back in the World series against the.

In 72 against the Oakland Athletics.

So Matty Alou, he doesn't have a good arm.

So Pete hit the ball down the right field line and Pete should have.

Pete should have scored.

No, Joe Morgan hated.

But Pete should have scored because Maddie threw the ball to second base and not to the cutoff man.

So as it turned out, it was second and third compared to score.

And then Joe Morgan had a triple because it was three to two at the time.

It would have been three three.

But.

But throwing it that he got away with that at that time.

But, but you guys knowing what the arm, the guy's arm, if he doesn't have a strong arm, just take that chance challenging them.

I got a question.

What George was saying about having a strong arm and everything.

You do that in pre game.

So they stopped doing that and you probably, you know, they stopped having teams to come out.

I'm talking about travel slack where our teams.

Because then that's where you put fear in the other person.

Right.

We gonna show our cannons off and we gonna.

And you ain't gonna run them.

And that was something I did.

They stopped doing that.

We did it with some teams, but not consistently.

And I'll tell you what, when you talk about putting fear by doing it well.

Yes.

You make your.

You make a laughing stock of yourself if you don't do it well.

Right.

And there were times that we went out there and had a bad pre game infield and I'm like, man, we just, we look stupid out there and they're, they're ready to come kick our butts.

Advance.

Exactly.

But, but that should be something that you're doing, you know, almost subconsciously out there because you've done it so many times.

You're just warming up, you're not working on something before the game.

Right.

It's just usual at that.

Exactly, exactly.

That.

A downfall for the select teams is that they play, they play a lot of games, but they don't learn how to play.

Yeah.

A chance to really practice.

But back to.

We're talking about situational play.

Yes.

I would tell them the situation.

So it's one out and a man on second base.

And I hit a fly ball to the outfield and just get them to start thinking about it.

So they already were gonna.

Where are you gonna throw the ball?

You're gonna throw it to third.

You're gonna throw it the second.

But then again like if you're a base runner, you're a second base one out or you're gonna tag up or are you going to go part way?

So I've seen guys no outs and they're at second base and a fly balls hit, they don't tag.

And then now it now is one out.

But he should have been at third base.

Inevitably now a fly balls hit the next time and that's.

There's a run because I look at how many times does a guy who's at third base does not score and look at the difference in the spinal score.

Yeah, that's, that's a big run.

But I'd say, I would call situations.

I say man on second base, no out.

Hit it down right field nine.

Where do you hit it so that now you're getting yourself prepared for it.

Don't, don't wait until the game happens because the guy, but one guy, I was telling him he didn't know where to throw the ball.

So a lot of them just, you know, I don't know where to throw.

I said throw it, throw it.

I said throw it to the middle of the field.

Throw it to the middle of the field, let it go.

At least you made a decision.

That brings up a couple, a couple things that I want to, I want to make sure we, we tackle here.

And first of all is kind of a do as I say, not as I do sort of situation.

Because the first thing, like what you were saying, every kid watches these monster throws and they all want to make the monster throw.

Hit the cut off man, dude, make the routine play.

But back to the monster throw.

So walk me through the 1975 World Series.

From, from the, from the first.

That pitch of the thing.

Walk me through how it happened.

That was.

I love that play.

But the history, there's history to that.

So we're going back to Dominican Republic.

I'm playing right field, bases loaded, one out.

And they gamble on the game in Dominican.

Okay.

And so I had to make a decision.

It was a ball hit down the right field line.

I could have caught it.

I mean, it's foul.

I could have caught it.

But I let it go because if I catch it, the guy still can score, right?

So I let it drop.

So I got a cascade of booze because I let it drop.

So then I started saying, okay, please, please hit a ground ball.

So now the next, the next guy hit a ground ball.

Now it's a double play.

I went from a villain to, to a hero because I made that decision.

So now I say to myself, if, if I'm going in for the ball, I'm going to try to catch it.

If I'm going away, let it go.

And, and hopefully the next time the guy will hit into it out.

But I'm going towards the home plate and.

But we talk about getting into the corner.

So I stepped to step with my left foot in the corner and caught it on my gloves.

I mean my throw inside and I took my right foot and stepped behind.

So that helped me get closer to the play, to the target.

And so it just.

They were saying, get rid of the ball.

I know that's in my head, get rid of the ball.

But I knew the base was loaded, so I'm going to try to hit the cutoff guy.

And that's it.

Turned out it was one hop throw to, to Johnny Bench.

I guess the only drawback is it was a brand new ball.

I got grass stained on it.

But it made it more dramatic.

But that was, that was the situation started in Dominican out that mindset.

What will I do when the ball hits it to my right side or my left side?

What would I do?

And knowing, knowing already What I'm going to do, I'm not wait to catch the ball, but I knowing that going into that corner, I have to be able to get there, catch it backhand and get, get that crow hop and.

Throw home when that ball was right on the line.

So you went all the way over to get it too.

So if you let that bounce and it's foul, okay, you go again.

But if that bounce is fair, I mean, you're in.

But the other factor I said, the bases load.

And Fred Lynn, he ended up being the rookie of the year MVP that year.

So I didn't want him to get another swing.

And so I said I can catch this ball and I'm in a position to make a throw.

Yeah.

So the turnout, I mean we end up getting a double play, we end up losing that game.

But that was one of the first defensive or web gym that that had been shown usually on offense.

So.

But that proved to kids when I was doing baseball camps, I'm doing the outfield and one kid said my dad said you weren't a good outfielder.

So we like take a deep breath like, okay.

But it was like, it was like godsend that the net that same night that game came on and they saw my making that play.

Then the next day, hey, can you teach us how to do that?

So that gave me a good reputation that you can play the outfield.

That's cool.

That is.

I do want to touch on something you said though, George, is you mentioned the ball bounced.

This is something, this is something I've been thinking about recently and the number of throws I see in youth baseball that sail over somebody's head.

Yes, you can never get taller, but you can block a ball on the ground.

And now we see guys in the infield bouncing on purpose to first base to make sure they don't throw it over their head.

So can you just kind of elaborate on the importance of keeping the throw down?

Yeah, I mean they should be able to catch the ground.

It's easy going to be easier to catch the ball.

That's, that's low.

But also the number one part is having to throw in a four seamer.

Yeah, you throw a two seamer, the ball is going to go left or right.

But the four seamer, it's going to help you to get more distance.

And I was able to throw it at four seamers.

So when it hit it, catch the, catch the threads on the ball and it's going to take off towards the target.

But if it's gone right or left that made a big difference.

But practice that.

Once again, you got to practice it.

And not just wait until that situation, but practice it.

But I learned my first year in pro ball how to hold a four seamer because I was throwing a cutter and.

But, you know, later on I said, how did I throw that?

Maybe I could have gone to be a pitcher.

But learning acid maze or bonds and those guys, you know, they said, throw a four seamer because you don't have to throw the ball all the way in air, right?

Just make that one hop.

And my favorite play was a Dodger Stadium.

Billy Buckner, he's a guy that, you know, try to challenge you.

So he rounds first base and like, I'm going to go to second.

So I waved into second, said, go ahead, go ahead.

And so he took off.

And I said, I'm gonna throw one hopper right to the guy.

And he was, it was out.

So when I passed Billy, I said, billy, you should have stayed at first base.

But my arm, my arm felt strong.

Well, the other thing about the one hopper is that keeping it low also, if there's going to be a tag.

Involved, I was just about to say.

It'S different if it's a force, but.

If there's a tag involved, the tag doesn't happen up here.

It happen.

It happens down here.

And then teaching kids how to pick a one, and now I can or.

For it playing third base, I had a bad habit of sailing because my arm was just a little too hot.

But when I got, when I got to high school, when I got to high school, I'll shout him out.

Jacob Eversole played first base.

And that dude could pick.

Yes, Jacob could.

Man, I don't, I do not think I would have played third base if he was not the first base basement because he saved so many bad throws for me.

But teaching every kid on the field how to pick a throw, teaching your middle infielders how to move their feet to receive that throw.

Anticipate.

Yeah, but, yeah, especially at the youth level, keep the ball down and learn how to block it up.

But even through thuring months and, you know, being a catcher, he just focused on getting the ball to second base.

It didn't have to be in the air, just that one hop made it because he hit that grass.

I, I don't know how fat, how much speed it's gained by hitting that, but I think that the ball's going to get there faster.

And plus down now, the guy didn't have to leap to get it.

It's right there.

Yes.

So building on what you said something a minute ago, we've been talking about practice and getting it in your head, whatever.

What are some tips for keeping yourself in the game mentally while you're in the outfield?

And maybe, maybe there's not a lot going on out there at the moment.

What are some tips for keeping yourself in the game when the action is slow?

Well, number one, knowing how many outs there are.

Yeah.

Knowing the batter, knowing the base runner, checking the what the sun feel, the wind, the field at surface and the outfield wall.

Because some of them have that warning track.

Knowing that, okay, it's a warning that you're getting close to the defense.

But that helps keep you into the game knowing how many outs, knowing what inning it is, knowing the, the batter of knowing the, the count and watching the center fielder if you're playing left or right, but being able to move and watching your coaches.

So you, you gotta.

Those things help you to stay in the game.

Because a lot of times there are times you don't.

It has happened.

They don't know how many outs a ball.

They thought it was a third out, it's a second out and they end up giving the ball to the fan.

Then they run back to get the ball from the fan.

So they're not really into the, into how many outs.

If you don't know how many outs, ask your infielder or look at the scoreboard or maybe ask somebody.

But knowing how many hours, that's very important.

That dictates where you're going to throw the ball because you're, you're winning maybe about three by three runs a man at second base.

If the ball is not hidden directly to you, you're going to go to try to catch, keep the batter runner from advancing.

That runner at second is not as important than to keep the other guy at first base.

So you know, in that situation and as a, as a runner, you know and say, well, like a Clemente's in the outfield, okay, you're not going to be as aggressive, but if you have a Matty Lou, you're going to be more aggressive.

Because I remember against the Cardinals I hit a Texas leaguer and I knew that the.

With that turf the ball is going to bounce.

So I'm right away from home plate.

I'm looking to get a double.

So I end up scoring a winning run but not being complacent, stopping at first base.

But you, but as an outfield, you got to know, okay, the.

It's a hot Day got that turf.

Play it safe.

That's a good point.

We're seeing.

We're seeing a lot more turf fields coming back into play, so definitely something to think about.

Think about one thing that.

And I will.

I want to give my dad some credit here.

One of the.

One of the things that he taught me when I was a kid was to be able to keep the game in my head.

And yes, because we most.

A lot of the times that we took in a game, it was on the radio because we were fishing or we were running around doing something.

We were.

Whatever.

I didn't.

We didn't always get to watch it, especially if it was on a weekend, especially red.

So.

Taught me to keep it in my head and listen to it on the radio.

Now I'm an auditory guy anyway.

I would much rather listen to a book than read it.

It just the way.

The way my brain works.

But learning to be able to.

At any, you know, the game is at any time.

Can you ask me how many outs there are?

Right.

What's pitch count?

I can tell.

Yes.

What's.

You know, so what this.

Would that batter do last time?

Yeah.

And so when Ethan was coming up, that was one of the first things that I.

I made sure I.

I taught him.

And it used to drive him crazy because Ethan's more of a visual guy.

Struggle with that.

He wanted to watch it on television, and I'd say, no.

We'd sit on the couch and listen on the radio, and he's like, dad, dad, just let us watch it on tv.

I said, no, you got to learn to do this.

And so we would play the game at any point, I say, how many outs are there?

And you got to be able to tell me.

Or what's pitch count?

You got to be able to tell me.

And learning to do that so that it's second nature.

So your brain is always doing something.

And when it comes to that, because I'm a visual person, I struggle with that.

And when you look at it that way, then the game takes place on the whole field, not just in the infield.

Yeah.

And it.

I think that helps include the output.

For sure.

Yes.

Something that you've alluded to a couple of times, George, that I.

I'd like to ask you about here is in the old days when we actually played baseball and we didn't just play tournaments all the time and we were in a league, and you would play the same team more than once in a year, and you would, you know, you would get to know the guys you were playing against because you played against the same six or seven teams all year long and that kind of thing.

It was a little easier to do this in a tournament.

It can be super hard because when you're in the tournament everything's the playoffs and everything's like elimination.

Talk about the, the research on hitters so that you know what those hitters are going to do, what they did last time, what they're going to do next time.

How did you go about doing your, your maybe film study or game prep?

We got a lot of information from batting practice.

So as an outfielder I'm watching these guys take batting practice so they're going to show you their true nature, where they got to hit the ball.

So now in a game situation, I'm prepared for it.

And this one stand out, I repeat it many, many times.

This guy Greg Gross, he just had come up, it's like in September, left handed hitter and he's taking bratting practices like 10 or 15 balls, every ball, no ball was on the right side of second base.

So that's information that was end up helping, helping this team situation because, because he's left handed.

They wanted me to play right center, move the right center against him.

But I knew it from batting practice.

He hit every ball on the left side of second base so that now he hits a line drive.

That's his strength.

But I played to his strength and he hit it right to me.

So now the coaches are like, you know, how did you know?

I said, well, just an instinct.

But I had done my homework.

I want, I didn't want to tell them, you guys don't know what you're talking about.

You know, I come and do and did my own homework.

The scouting reports, they can help but you still need to go out there and see how the balls move.

If it's going to be slicing, it's going to.

If they're hooking the ball.

So all that information really help in a game situation.

But that's where I found watching the guys take batting practice and then previous at bats, you know how what they do, what did they do?

In a certain count you take a Jack Clark, you take Mike Piazza is like when you get two strikes on these guys.

Those guys are great hitters.

They hit the ball to right field like a left hander.

So I said give him something to hit earlier.

And like with Jack Clark we would cause Tom Seaver's pitching and he feel that Jack Clark's not going to pull Tom Seaver.

So we're playing him More towards center field.

At least I am.

And he hits a lot.

A bullet down the left field line.

I said, wow.

It proved to me that, yeah, playing straight away, you have a good chance, you know, getting to the ball.

But during the course of a game, things change.

Make the adjustment.

I tell the.

When hitting, make the adjustment.

Don't just stay in the same spot all the time.

Make the adjustment.

But back to when we talk about having two strikes.

The guy's not going to be as aggressive with two strikes.

So now move to the opposite field.

You're.

You're more prepared.

You may not catch it in air, but you cut it off so he doesn't get an extra base hit.

But that's where I got my information.

Watching the guys take batting practice, you.

Were talking about, George, how sometimes the pitcher will throw the ball in, trying to see if you'll jump back.

Right.

And that would.

That would give the.

Give everybody an idea of where you're likely to hit the ball.

Go through that again.

For us, it's a.

It's more so you're not really sure.

This is a guy that's a big guy.

So he's going to evaluate how he's going to react, a certain location.

So I purposely have the catcher to have him throw the ball inside.

And if he's jumping back and knowing that we got him with the breaking ball or the ball away, but if he's staying in there, I said, okay, being careful with this guy, especially in a situation he's going to tie, win the game.

I'll pitch around this guy.

But it's.

That's evaluating.

But I was going to allude to a situation that I had worked with this kid when he were younger.

And so now we're facing this kid in a tournament.

And so.

But we have high school scouts out watching this kid.

So it's like, I want to win, but I still want the kid to look good.

So I pitched to him instead of walking him, and he ends up hitting a couple home runs.

But it's like, I can't.

I want to help the kid to be seen and.

But I want the team, our team, to win.

So I'm like, it's a dilemma here.

I said, I hope nobody else realizes I worked with this kid before, and I know what he can do.

And I go to games and I'm watching.

I said, I wanted to say, don't picture this kid.

Don't picture this kid because he threw him inside.

He's closing in.

I said, no, this kid's ready and then before I could say no, it's gone.

But it's an instinct on my part.

Yes.

But then you see a kid, I said, throw him a breaking ball in the dirt.

But you had to have confidence in the catcher.

He's gonna block it.

So if he's taking a half swing that he's.

He may go at one.

But I would tell him, I said, you don't have to throw a strike to get a strike.

What do you mean that by that?

Bounce the ball up there.

Let.

Give him a chance to show you what he's going to do.

Exactly.

So we brought up a few interesting points here.

The idea that learning to keep the game in your head.

Right.

Okay.

Paying very, very close attention to what the other team is doing, whether it's during warmups or in between games or whatever.

So, you know, here some.

Some tips for young players.

If you're at a tournament and, you know, you got downtime in between the games, rather than, you know, go get a hot dog and then go find a game to watch, you know, just go in.

Especially if you can figure out who you're going to play next.

Yeah.

Or who's really tearing it up.

That.

Go scout, Right?

Yes, absolutely.

Go and watch what they're doing.

Or.

Or.

Dad.

Man, I know I used to drive Ethan crazy with this stuff, but every.

Every game he.

Sometimes I know he was like, can we just relax and watch a game?

But every game was a learning opportunity.

Every game was, so what this guy do last time?

So where did he hit it last time?

So what's going on?

You know, get that mental game going all the time.

Yes.

Because those are things you can do in your spare time.

Make it into a game, have fun with it.

Yes.

But make it into something that allows them to start keeping that game in their head.

Ethan is more than my podcast partner.

He's my son.

And like every baseball parent, my first priority was his development as a player.

Every year, we'd start out with a new coach and a new team making new promises, only to end up playing the same old tournaments with little to no practice in between.

You know what I'm talking about?

That's why I'm so thankful that we found MDNI Academy.

I first met Coach Rick over a decade ago when Ethan was just a kid.

And I'll never forget the relief I felt watching his first lesson.

I knew right then that no matter what team he played for, my son would have amazing, consistent instruction from someone who cared.

Rick has trained baseball and softball players at the Select Travel and even college levels.

So I knew that Ethan could continue his excellence through training approach.

For his whole baseball career.

He learned hitting, pitching, catching, fielding and more all in one place.

Most of all, he learned to love the greatest game in the world and how to play it with character and integrity.

MDNI is a first class facility with plenty of tunnels for hitting and pitching instruction that open up into large areas for teaching fielding, base running, speed and agility.

They even have a weight room for strength training.

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You need to check out MDNI Academy today.

Go to mdaiacademy.com and contact Coach Rick to learn how you can get all the baseball instruction you need from someone who cares about your favorite player as much as you do at MDNI Academy.

All right, so we're going to finish up today with, with little skills and drills.

So I read someplace online this was the statement that Willie Mays was the standard by which outfielders were judged pretty much across the board.

And George, you had the, the, the privilege of being able to come up under a guy like that.

Can you speak a little bit toward what are some things that you learned from, from him?

It's back to knowing the situation and playing to that situation and always communicating and bendy, even if you're not a center fielder.

But communicating and, but the one that I feel saved my life or saved my career teaching me how to catch a fly ball out of the sun.

You become too defensive if you don't know you letting the ball drop.

But then after a while, you know, I was like an expert knowing how to do that.

So what is, what is the secret to catching it out of the sun?

I'm curious.

Well, the key is that you, so the sun is one of the brightest where the brightest ball of all.

So you go in, go in to your left and let the ball come out.

So you're not looking directly into the sun.

So a lot of them, you know, have their sunglasses on, they're getting real low, shading their eyes, but it's right into the sun.

So if you go in and let the ball come out, then you're able to catch it.

You may not be in a good position to make a throw, but the key is catching the ball.

And after you do that, because when we play in the playoffs and I knowing that, okay, I'm in the sun field and if I hit a ball in the sun, I'm taking off because I know there's a chance that guy's going to miss the ball.

So I get a double or triple in that situation.

But in my case, you know, I'm out there like Fred Astaire, you know, doing my little dance because I know that I go in and let the ball come out.

But until Willie Mays taught me how to do it, I was getting hit in the chest.

He said, let me show you how to do it before you kill yourself.

Like in Chicago, the ball's real low, but people try to get real low.

But I said, no, go in, let the ball come out.

Yeah, it sounds.

Sounds easy, but once you start doing that, you know, it's like a piece of cake.

So everybody's got a lid on a cat.

Okay.

So anything below your lid, you're you coming forward on the ball.

Okay.

Because it's line drive.

Anything above your lid, you drop stepping, going back because it's over your head.

Do you.

Have you ever used that before?

Not as much as the lid, as more of the chest.

Okay.

And.

And the ball's coming, say chest, but you still a line drive.

You don't want to charge it.

Right.

Because you want to step back and see what the ball is going to react.

Right.

But with a, like, with a fly ball, a lot of guys don't know how to catch.

They don't like to or know how to catch a fly ball that's real high.

So I always pretend that if I let the ball go, it's going to hit me right in the sternum.

So you play it, play that ball like it's going to hit you in the chest and compared to your four forehead because it's going to be over your head.

So that, that helped me to judge ball much better.

But it's that you stand your ground on that line drive.

Stand your ground and.

But I play it more according to chest high or letter high.

Okay, good, good.

So what are along with skills and drills here?

So what are some skills that are necessary to play the outfield well that aren't catch and fly balls?

And what are some drills to work on those if there's nobody to hit you?

Fly balls.

How.

What do you work on to become a better outfielder if there's nobody to.

To hit you?

Fly ball.

What I would do is go to a handball court and throw the ball off the.

Yes.

So yeah, so now it's.

You have these corners I hit in the corner and then it helps you to.

If the ball is going to go to your Right or left or straight ahead?

Throw it high, throw it low.

Because I would do that with.

In my.

In my camps clinics.

So the kids would throw the ball against the wall and they learn how to feel the ball.

And I said before, there are five different ways of, say, catching the ground ball.

So I said, okay, down on one knee.

I want you to backhand it.

Yeah.

And then the aggressive one, you know, you're coming in as a.

Do a dare situation.

So it's easy.

Then they have these pitch backs.

So you use the pitch back and throw it against that pitch back.

Or finding.

It's finding a concrete wall to be able to do that.

But you can have like, say, throwing against the wall.

Yes.

Or throwing five balls.

Just throwing it yourself.

Yes.

Fly balls and getting.

Getting your footwork.

When you approach a ground ball and you can you judge it by speed, Slow your feet down.

Because that's the first thing you got to do.

Feel the ball.

But they run through it.

Yes, yes, they do.

And I like.

Oh, man.

So those are things that you gotta.

Slowly again, using a wall.

You can use a wall to do that.

Throw it a little lower so you can get a ground ball effect.

Throw it higher.

Guess what?

Throw it over your shoulder.

Boom.

You get over to.

You know, you can.

There's so many.

Tennis ball.

Yes, a tennis ball.

We did a tennis ball or rubber ball all the time and so well.

And Rick, I know, I know speed and agility was a big.

Was a big thing for you.

So talk about the importance of speed.

And agility for plyos.

I think plyos jumping from one foot to the other foot.

A lot of drop steps.

You know, you get a pawn and put piranhas in it.

That really helped with your.

Oh, yeah, you.

Box jumps.

A lot of stuff that kids can do on their own.

Broad jumps, jump.

So we just jump off stage steps, man.

And little things like that work on an explosive.

But the key thing, out of every position that you play, I think we have to address throwing and catching.

Yeah.

Oh, man, I see that as something.

And that's for outfielders to infielders.

Long toss, Developing your arm.

And you could throw rocks, man.

Just long towels.

Strengthen your arm.

The other thing is when it comes to throwing and catching, you're talking about throwing with intention and.

Yes, because especially it applies to every position.

Yes, it do differently in each way, but it does apply when.

Especially with.

Let's talk about relays, because that's so important at a young level.

You need to know how to do that.

Making sure.

You're throwing to the right side for your fielder to be able to turn and make that throw.

Yeah.

How many times do you see a relay and they don't know how to.

You're not, you're not in position to make that exact.

They don't know how to move their feet to get.

We talked earlier about being able to throw to a tag.

Yes.

And that kind of thing.

And all of that you can work on every single time you throw.

I wish I had had more intention in warm ups because that guy's gonna hold his glove up every single time, you know, he's catching the ball, throw it to a specific spot so that you're doing it subconsciously without having to think about it.

And it makes your relays more efficient.

I agree.

But one that I, I didn't do a lot myself.

Because I hit a lot of home runs.

No, I didn't do a lot myself.

By teaching the kids how to slide.

Yeah.

So that's another.

So that, that's a deterrent.

As far as them.

If they don't know how to slide, they're not going to try to advance and instilling a base or running the bases.

So in the beginning I have them and it's good.

This part is going to help with the defense.

So teach them how to slide.

But then now throw a baseball.

I want you to slide and be able to catch.

Yes, but I did as far as diving, I tried to get away from that, but being able to slide and catch the ball.

So now they're not.

Now they're learning how to slide and then they learn improve their defense.

But it's adding fun to it.

Let's do that again, coach.

Let's do that again.

But in the beginning, just sliding is like.

No, I don't really want to do that.

But okay, let's make it fun.

There you go.

George, what you're saying, you're spot on again.

Because if these, if the kids were free to go out and do and play amongst themselves, guess what?

They would be doing that without nobody trying to tell them to do especially.

It happens.

Yes.

Man.

See, I'm dying for balls and everything, but because they're playing on their own terms, you know what I'm saying?

With nobody trying to control them or.

Or anything.

But it's too regimented sometimes.

But the coaches who do not know how to do it, they don't.

They're not thinking about having fun and.

And they want them to be perfect.

Yes, but.

Yes, and you can't.

Well, let me Let me wrap us up here with just a little bit more here.

One of the things I did in preparation when I was writing the outline for this week's show was I went online and I started looking at what questions people were asking about outfield online.

And by far the number one thing that the Internet wants to know regarding outfield is why the gloves are bigger, what size glove you should wear.

All about the gloves.

So, Ethan, why don't you walk us through glove tech.

When it comes to outfield, the first.

Answer I would say is that make sure the glove is something the kid can use conventionally.

I think an outfield glove is usually 12 and a quarter inches or bigger.

But don't get a glove so big that the kid can't use it, because then you're just doing them a disservice.

Too heavy.

100% too heavy.

But, George, I want to.

We talked about this briefly when it came to the gloves.

A lot of something I'm seeing a lot is players shifting their fingers and putting two fingers in the pinky slot and then moving something away from the forefinger.

And what did you.

When did you start doing that?

After Willie Stardew hit a.

Hit me in the hand and it got a bone bruise.

But I, I started doing that because I.

With Willie Mays, he's saying that you have a longer reach.

Longer reach because I was using.

It was a long glove as it is kangaroo skin.

So we can.

We could stretch it, but being able to put your hand there.

And so almost part of my heel of my.

My hand was out of the glove, but my fingers were strong enough to be able to hold on to the glove.

Right.

I didn't have all fingers in each pocket, but.

But that's something the kid had to get used to.

So that opens up.

That opens up a couple of things.

So like we said, make sure the glove is usable because if it's not, then it's not actually helping them.

Right.

When you're saying that, that Willie mays taught you two into pinkies, that's the 60s, and that's just now gaining popularity.

Which is funny because I, for a while I've been trying to figure out who was the first person to do that.

And the only thing I could find in a book was Bernie Williams in the 90s.

But what you're saying predates by quite.

So that's something that's been around for a long time.

Not a lot been there, but it hadn't really been talked.

Exactly.

And so the.

There's a couple of advantages to that, like you were.

The.

The obvious one is that now you have your pinky is your weakest finger, and now you have the strength of two fingers rather than just one.

And it moves your pointer finger out of the way.

And so you're closing like this rather than like.

Exactly.

And no bone bruise.

No bone bruise.

And I.

So you're even seeing infielders doing that now.

But.

But it's huge because it gives you that clamping power.

The other thing, the.

The thing I don't think.

I think that gets overlooked is like you were saying, the.

The way that it shifts your palm when your hand is in the glove like this.

Okay.

That line is right here.

But when you shift it like this, now less of your hand is in the glove.

When your hand.

The more hand in the glove, the more obstruction there is to closing, because the leather will collapse on itself.

No big deal.

But if there's a, you know, a fleshy hand in there, it can't close around.

Right.

So it makes it floppier, easier to use.

So, like the crease in your hand, that's one that.

The crease in the gloves.

100%.

It's funny you bring up kangaroo leather, because we don't.

We really don't see that anymore, I believe.

Was that with McGregor, Gregor.

And so that's.

That's a whole nother thing, because McGregor doesn't even make ball gloves anymore.

But they were a big.

A big player.

Kangaroos protested no more.

But.

But kangaroo leather is interesting because I have done a few, and I've seen them come.

I've seen them come from McGregor.

I've seen them come from Nakona.

But the thing about kangaroo leather, like we talked about, is it's very thin.

Yes.

And so it tears.

It tears inside.

So outside look like brand new, but inside, it does tear.

But it's light.

Yes.

Sloppy.

So you can always know exactly where the ball is.

You don't.

Some of them, the ball help close the ball help close the glove.

So it's right there.

It fits right in.

But when you have to sometime clamp, then that.

That takes time.

But being.

Because you're reaching, right?

So you're reaching, getting that extension.

So the ball goes right into the glove.

It's kind of.

Kind of auto catch at that point.

Right.

But.

And so now we get to why there's a difference.

And it's because of the.

The.

The functionality that.

And the different situations that the player finds himself in.

Right.

So in the infield, you need fast hands.

Yes.

You Kind of.

You're more just want a wall.

Some.

You're just deflecting.

Deflecting, Exactly.

You're never doing that in the outfield.

You're trying to secure it.

That is your number one.

If you have a giant glove and you're trying to secure it at second base, you're never turning a double play.

Right.

So number one, get something they can use.

Secondary is starting to think.

I like that word you said, set.

Usable.

Usable, absolutely.

And.

And that even comes into play when you're talking about upgrading, even if the player's not changing positions.

Upgrading to the next quality of glove.

Yes.

Unless you're having a problem, don't change anything.

Because if you get too stiff of a glove that you can't use, it's not helping you.

And I want to exercise.

I want you to exercise some caution when buying as a gift because I understand the idea of wanting it to be a surprise.

But be careful because if it's not what they want or need, you might be headed in the wrong direction.

So maybe they're not cheap and they're not.

I was gonna say it's a big investment.

Yes.

Yes.

And not only the investment, the monies you put out, but you want to have a usable.

Back to the word usable.

You don't want to get it one year, then it's thrown aside.

You got to get another one.

So go to an expert who knows so that you.

Starting from a good foundation, knowing that this is the correct glove and this is the way.

This is the way to break it in.

Yeah.

That's not just a.

It's not necessarily a one break in fits all or one right.

One style fits everything.

There's different.

Different styles and patterns and sizes and webs for different.

And I think that's what people need to understand to the different webs and I think different color of laces.

He used a trapeze.

Rainbow color.

Well, the different ways they use a glove.

One of the things that used to blow my mind and I.

I still have never been able to figure this out because my dad would.

Would play.

Would play church softball.

We'd all be on the softball team.

And he.

The man is crazy.

He would.

He would feel ground balls on the back of his glove.

It would never actually go into the glove.

Sometimes he'd just trap it on the back of the glove so he could take it off at the throw it.

Yeah.

And he just.

He was tough that way.

I always appreciate it.

No, but that's going back.

Mazeroski.

All these great.

Infielders are for gosi knop.

You know, they, they didn't really.

The ball didn't go into their glove.

It's maybe on the heel or in the back of the glove because they can be able to get rid of it.

Yeah, that'll have to be a whole another segment for, for infield.

I forgot.

Do not try that.

Yeah, that's not good.

It'll run right, knocking it level.

Swing, let it travel, wait for your pitch.

Be aggressive out there.

It's no wonder young players get confused at the plate.

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Apply at George Foster baseball.com All right, fellas, well, let's just kind of wrap us up here a little bit.

We talked a lot about outfielding today.

We talked about the fact that embracing the outfield can open up some opportunities, can help you make a team, get some playing time, get some at bats.

We talked about some important skills to outfield that you can practice both in a team setting and on your own.

We talked about some glove tech today, so I'm sure we'll be back to outfielding more, you know, in the future.

It's a, it's a wide topic and we have some pretty great expertise here at the table.

So we're, we're thankful for the opportunity.

But if you've enjoyed this episode today and you want to check it out, you can do that@completegame podcast.com and until next week, we'll see you.

We hope you've enjoyed the Complete Game Podcast, the show that's all about baseball.

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