Speaker: 00:00:00

So I think that's, I think it's amazing.

00:00:02,544 --> 00:00:05,547

But maybe it's not so amazing

when you consider that

00:00:05,755 --> 00:00:09,926

New Testaments are sold today

like the Bible, just the New Testament

00:00:10,135 --> 00:00:13,138

without an Old Testament

even included in the Bible,

00:00:13,888 --> 00:00:16,891

which, you know,

if you imagine the opposite of that,

00:00:17,308 --> 00:00:21,146

imagine some Christian selling

the Old Testament without a New Testament.

00:00:21,438 --> 00:00:23,064

It would be like what the world?

00:00:23,064 --> 00:00:26,067

And yet that is almost

what the early church had.

00:00:31,990 --> 00:00:34,868

Glenn Martin, welcome back to the podcast.

00:00:35,452 --> 00:00:38,413

So you are part of the Strength

To Strength YouTube channel,

00:00:38,413 --> 00:00:42,125

which we've had, numerous interactions

with you all over, over the years.

00:00:42,834 --> 00:00:45,128

You just wrote

a book called Righteous Lot,

00:00:45,128 --> 00:00:47,505

which is, again, about the story of Lot

00:00:47,505 --> 00:00:49,215

you know, and we're doing a whole separate

episode on that.

00:00:49,215 --> 00:00:51,092

We're not going to get into to that topic.

00:00:51,092 --> 00:00:53,094

We'll save that for another time. But.

00:00:53,094 --> 00:00:57,557

This got me thinking

about different things and and Mr.

00:00:57,557 --> 00:01:00,351

Russell, Steven

Russell wrote the forward to this book.

00:01:00,351 --> 00:01:03,229

So we've had him on the podcast

a number of times,

00:01:03,229 --> 00:01:05,398

and he makes an interesting point here,

and I'd like to use

00:01:05,398 --> 00:01:07,650

that as kind of a launch

pad into today's topic.

00:01:07,650 --> 00:01:09,527

So if you don't mind,

I'll just read this first.

00:01:10,612 --> 00:01:13,615

First bit here in the in the forward.

00:01:13,865 --> 00:01:16,868

And this is what Steven Russell writes.

00:01:17,577 --> 00:01:19,329

In the foreword.

00:01:19,329 --> 00:01:21,915

Says one of the greatest

underused resources

00:01:21,915 --> 00:01:24,918

available to Christians

is the Old Testament.

00:01:25,752 --> 00:01:28,379

And he goes on to say, you know,

he teaches at Faith builders,

00:01:28,379 --> 00:01:29,798

and he mentions different,

different things

00:01:29,798 --> 00:01:32,801

here, how he gets to teach

some of these things. And,

00:01:33,593 --> 00:01:35,637

so I, just jump right in.

00:01:35,637 --> 00:01:38,306

Why don't we read the Old Testament more?

00:01:38,306 --> 00:01:41,309

And then what are some of the common

misunderstandings we have about it?

00:01:41,309 --> 00:01:41,935

Sure.

00:01:41,935 --> 00:01:44,062

Yeah. Well, thanks for having me, Reagan.

00:01:44,062 --> 00:01:44,938

Happy to be here.

00:01:44,938 --> 00:01:47,524

Why don't we read the Old Testament more?

00:01:47,524 --> 00:01:48,274

Good question.

00:01:48,274 --> 00:01:50,819

So I think there's maybe

two parts to this.

00:01:50,819 --> 00:01:53,822

We might look at the symptoms

and then also the root cause.

00:01:54,239 --> 00:01:56,533

The symptoms are easier to identify.

00:01:56,533 --> 00:01:58,576

So maybe we can start with with that.

00:02:00,203 --> 00:02:00,620

Regarding the

00:02:00,620 --> 00:02:04,499

symptoms, I think it's indisputable

that many Christians today view

00:02:04,499 --> 00:02:08,962

the Old Testament as being irrelevant

or unhelpful or even unspiritual.

00:02:09,796 --> 00:02:14,509

And, the New Testament is dominating

in virtually all forms of teaching,

00:02:14,926 --> 00:02:18,346

and the Old Testament is considered

like children's literature.

00:02:18,847 --> 00:02:24,227

And, it's got some quaint stories of David

and Goliath, you know, and Noah's Ark

00:02:24,227 --> 00:02:28,731

and, you know, and that's kind of how it's

oftentimes viewed by Christians today.

00:02:30,024 --> 00:02:34,612

If you look, like to do a Google search

on the most neglected books of the Bible.

00:02:34,946 --> 00:02:37,198

They're almost all Old Testament.

00:02:37,198 --> 00:02:38,825

Just out of curiosity, not to derail us.

00:02:38,825 --> 00:02:41,077

But do you know what, like,

would be like the number one

00:02:41,077 --> 00:02:44,080

or the top most neglected

it probably like Leviticus or something?

00:02:44,122 --> 00:02:48,168

So not all of the lists agree,

because different people have done

00:02:48,334 --> 00:02:50,253

studies on this. And,

00:02:51,671 --> 00:02:52,255

I think what

00:02:52,255 --> 00:02:55,258

what does agree is that it’s

the Old Testament,

00:02:56,509 --> 00:02:59,220

minor prophets that are among the,

00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:03,266

the least used as well

as some of the books of the Pentateuch,

00:03:03,558 --> 00:03:06,102

you mentioned Leviticus,

and that would be among those.

00:03:06,102 --> 00:03:09,105

Yeah I can imagine numbers is probably up

there as well.

00:03:09,189 --> 00:03:11,065

Yeah. Oh okay.

00:03:11,065 --> 00:03:11,274

Yeah.

00:03:11,274 --> 00:03:14,235

This is totally

a thing though because it's like

00:03:14,235 --> 00:03:17,488

the Old Testament

is a huge chunk of our Bible

00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:21,242

but we just aren't very familiar with it

if that makes sense.

00:03:21,242 --> 00:03:22,410

Or at least I feel like I'm not.

00:03:22,410 --> 00:03:23,786

But anyways sorry. Continue on.

00:03:23,786 --> 00:03:27,832

Not to derail where you were going,

So the Logos Bible software, which is,

00:03:28,541 --> 00:03:32,837

very, very popular and well known,

they have much more than just the Bible.

00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:37,967

They have lots of Bible, commentaries

and things in their, in their suite of,

00:03:38,343 --> 00:03:43,014

of resources, Bible dictionaries and

journal articles and many other things.

00:03:43,264 --> 00:03:47,101

So there was a researcher at logos

that took a cross-section

00:03:47,393 --> 00:03:50,188

of all their, resources.

00:03:50,188 --> 00:03:54,567

And then they extracted the references

to Scripture out of that.

00:03:55,235 --> 00:03:58,696

So out of all their resources,

they came up with a listing

00:03:58,696 --> 00:04:01,950

of 830,000 references to Scripture.

00:04:01,950 --> 00:04:05,995

And then you can rank those

and see where the where the interest is.

00:04:07,413 --> 00:04:09,123

So when that's done

00:04:09,123 --> 00:04:13,002

in the top 100 most cited references,

00:04:14,045 --> 00:04:16,798

only nine were from the Old Testament

out of 100.

00:04:16,798 --> 00:04:19,801

And 8 of those, nine were from Genesis.

00:04:20,343 --> 00:04:23,638

One was from Isaiah,

and then the remaining ones

00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:27,058

are from the New Testament.

00:04:27,308 --> 00:04:27,934

Whoa.

00:04:27,934 --> 00:04:32,188

Which is amazing, considering that

the Old Testament is 73% of the Bible.

00:04:32,605 --> 00:04:34,107

You know, it's not a 50/50.

00:04:34,107 --> 00:04:37,402

The dominant text is the Old Testament,

00:04:37,735 --> 00:04:40,655

and only 9% is being cited from there.

00:04:40,655 --> 00:04:43,574

so like three quarters

essentially of, of the Bible

00:04:43,574 --> 00:04:46,703

is, as we have it today, is Old Testament.

00:04:47,787 --> 00:04:48,997

Wow. Okay.

00:04:48,997 --> 00:04:51,708

That's way more skewed

than I actually thought.

00:04:51,708 --> 00:04:54,502

That's a fascinating study.

00:04:54,502 --> 00:04:57,338

Wow. And then if you look at the contrast

00:04:57,338 --> 00:05:00,675

of that for the New Testament,

virtually every verse is

00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:05,555

cited for a book like Romans

or First Corinthians, every verse.

00:05:06,055 --> 00:05:10,893

In the Old Testament, entire books,

whole collections of books are not.

100

00:05:11,728 --> 00:05:12,020

Yeah.

101

00:05:13,187 --> 00:05:15,356

So I think that's I think it's amazing.

102

00:05:15,356 --> 00:05:18,359

But maybe it's not so amazing

when you consider that

103

00:05:18,568 --> 00:05:22,739

New Testaments are sold today

like the Bible, just the New Testament

104

00:05:22,947 --> 00:05:25,950

without an Old Testament

even included in the Bible,

105

00:05:26,701 --> 00:05:29,704

which, you know,

if you imagine the opposite of that,

106

00:05:30,121 --> 00:05:33,958

imagine some Christian selling

the Old Testament without a New Testament.

107

00:05:34,250 --> 00:05:35,877

It would be like what the world?

108

00:05:35,877 --> 00:05:38,880

And yet that is almost

what the early church had.

109

00:05:39,672 --> 00:05:41,257

That's a good point.

110

00:05:41,257 --> 00:05:44,802

Get into that a little bit more like when

you say that's what the early church had.

111

00:05:44,802 --> 00:05:48,222

I think that's really easy to forget

when say Paul is writing

112

00:05:48,556 --> 00:05:50,808

and he's talking about the scriptures

and so forth.

113

00:05:50,808 --> 00:05:53,478

He's the only Scripture

he would have had at the time

114

00:05:53,478 --> 00:05:55,855

would have been the what we call

the Old Testament now, essentially.

115

00:05:55,855 --> 00:05:57,065

Right? Exactly.

116

00:05:57,065 --> 00:05:59,108

So when we read in the New Testament,

117

00:05:59,108 --> 00:06:02,111

some of the things that Paul is saying

or others,

118

00:06:02,695 --> 00:06:05,698

like, for example,

let me just take an example from Romans

119

00:06:05,740 --> 00:06:08,534

chapter 15. Paul said

120

00:06:08,534 --> 00:06:11,454

that whatever things were written before

were written for our learning.

121

00:06:11,454 --> 00:06:14,999

People are like, oh, yeah, that must be,

you know, our Bible.

122

00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:17,043

No, it's only the old Testament.

123

00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:20,546

And he's clearly talking

about the Old Testament when he says that

124

00:06:21,130 --> 00:06:24,884

six times in that one chapter,

he quotes the Old Testament.

125

00:06:25,718 --> 00:06:28,012

He's talking about the Old Testament.

126

00:06:28,012 --> 00:06:29,931

And, that's what they had.

127

00:06:29,931 --> 00:06:32,850

And he says these things

were written for our learning.

128

00:06:32,850 --> 00:06:35,561

So they had an Old Testament

without a New Testament,

129

00:06:35,561 --> 00:06:38,481

and they preached about Jesus from that.

130

00:06:38,481 --> 00:06:40,400

I find that fascinating. Yeah.

131

00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,736

Well that's hard to imagine

something like that happening today

132

00:06:43,736 --> 00:06:44,987

or like you know what I mean.

133

00:06:44,987 --> 00:06:47,657

Like if you had to preach Jesus

and you only had. Yeah.

134

00:06:47,657 --> 00:06:50,034

The Old Testament, you know,

because the early church,

135

00:06:50,034 --> 00:06:51,744

maybe the New Testament

hadn't even been written yet,

136

00:06:51,744 --> 00:06:54,414

you know, when,

when this was all starting.

137

00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:57,375

That would be a challenge for us today.

138

00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:58,167

You know what I mean.

139

00:07:00,253 --> 00:07:00,503

Right.

140

00:07:00,503 --> 00:07:04,424

So I think, you know, that

kind of illustrates the symptoms of where

141

00:07:04,424 --> 00:07:09,303

we're at where so little of reference

is made to the Old Testament

142

00:07:09,554 --> 00:07:12,932

that people are becoming largely

illiterate of the Old Testament story.

143

00:07:13,724 --> 00:07:14,851

Yeah.

144

00:07:14,851 --> 00:07:17,854

okay so you just hit some of the symptoms

like what we're seeing.

145

00:07:17,937 --> 00:07:20,940

But dive into the root causes then. Sure.

146

00:07:21,065 --> 00:07:21,315

Yeah.

147

00:07:21,315 --> 00:07:24,318

So identifying the root

causes may be a little bit more difficult.

148

00:07:24,527 --> 00:07:25,862

So I'm going to give you my,

149

00:07:25,862 --> 00:07:28,948

my theory of why

it is that we neglect the Old Testament.

150

00:07:29,740 --> 00:07:33,244

Sometimes a metaphor is used of a flat

Bible.

151

00:07:33,411 --> 00:07:37,498

People talk about a flat Bible,

meaning that equal weight is placed on

152

00:07:37,790 --> 00:07:40,626

on all the text from all places.

153

00:07:40,626 --> 00:07:44,338

It's a hermeneutic where the application

154

00:07:44,338 --> 00:07:48,092

or the value or whatever is

equivalent wherever you look.

155

00:07:49,677 --> 00:07:49,927

Yeah.

156

00:07:49,927 --> 00:07:53,764

So I think that's,

probably not too difficult to understand.

157

00:07:54,891 --> 00:07:56,601

I don't believe that. Okay.

158

00:07:56,601 --> 00:07:57,810

I don't believe in a flat Bible.

159

00:07:57,810 --> 00:08:00,813

I think that clearly the New Testament is,

160

00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:04,233

the final revelation that we have,

161

00:08:04,233 --> 00:08:07,778

but it's built on top of a foundation

of the Old Testament.

162

00:08:08,905 --> 00:08:10,823

So one thing that I think

163

00:08:10,823 --> 00:08:14,827

oftentimes happens is

that people will take the statement.

164

00:08:14,827 --> 00:08:16,662

I just said that the New Testament

is built

165

00:08:16,662 --> 00:08:18,289

on the foundation of the Old Testament,

166

00:08:18,289 --> 00:08:22,376

and they'll then look at it as being a New

Testament versus Old Testament.

167

00:08:22,668 --> 00:08:23,252

Okay.

168

00:08:23,252 --> 00:08:26,255

And that's where the contrast is made.

169

00:08:26,464 --> 00:08:29,467

But I think that there might be

a better way to look at that.

170

00:08:29,717 --> 00:08:34,555

So Jesus, when he came as the Messiah,

he was the new Moses.

171

00:08:35,139 --> 00:08:38,226

And there's many parallels

that you can take a look

172

00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:41,229

at of how Jesus parallels Moses.

173

00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:45,233

And I think that's really

the the big difference.

174

00:08:47,193 --> 00:08:49,028

authority and weight

175

00:08:49,028 --> 00:08:51,739

is the old Moses or the new Moses?

176

00:08:51,739 --> 00:08:53,950

Well, Jesus presented a new law.

177

00:08:53,950 --> 00:08:58,663

Moses had an old law, that was given on

Sinai that I think has been replaced.

178

00:08:59,163 --> 00:09:01,749

So I think that what we should be doing

179

00:09:01,749 --> 00:09:05,378

is instead of saying we have Old Testament

versus New Testament,

180

00:09:05,461 --> 00:09:08,464

we should be saying Jesus versus Moses.

181

00:09:08,631 --> 00:09:12,635

And so the Torah is

the law of Moses has been replaced,

182

00:09:13,344 --> 00:09:15,972

that not all of

the Old Testament is Torah.

183

00:09:15,972 --> 00:09:19,433

We have lots of Old Testament

with lots of good teaching.

184

00:09:19,725 --> 00:09:24,230

That is not all to be disregarded

as Old Testament.

185

00:09:24,605 --> 00:09:28,234

But instead we do have a section of that

which is the Law of Moses,

186

00:09:28,359 --> 00:09:30,069

which has been replaced.

187

00:09:30,069 --> 00:09:32,446

Hebrews, talks about that.

188

00:09:32,446 --> 00:09:35,449

You know, Hebrews is considered

to be the book of better things.

189

00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:39,036

And he's not comparing

the writer of Hebrews,

190

00:09:39,036 --> 00:09:43,082

whoever that is, is not comparing

the Old Testament to the New Testament.

191

00:09:43,207 --> 00:09:46,085

He's comparing the law

of Moses to the law of Jesus.

192

00:09:48,963 --> 00:09:49,463

I don't know if I've

193

00:09:49,463 --> 00:09:52,508

ever heard that before,

and I think it's because of that.

194

00:09:53,301 --> 00:09:56,304

When that's misunderstood and people,

195

00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:59,640

position the Old Testament

against the New Testament.

196

00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,643

That's why the Old Testament has lost its,

197

00:10:03,811 --> 00:10:06,814

weight or,

198

00:10:06,897 --> 00:10:09,442

validity or something like that.

199

00:10:09,442 --> 00:10:09,775

Yeah.

200

00:10:09,775 --> 00:10:12,987

Because it's almost like well it's like

oh that's that old thing over there.

201

00:10:12,987 --> 00:10:14,155

It's you know whatever.

202

00:10:14,155 --> 00:10:16,657

It's not really that relevant anymore.

203

00:10:16,657 --> 00:10:18,284

Yeah.

204

00:10:18,284 --> 00:10:21,287

So, so going back to

205

00:10:21,537 --> 00:10:23,331

actually let me,

let me just find this again

206

00:10:23,331 --> 00:10:26,584

because, because you mentioned you

mentioned Romans 15 here.

207

00:10:27,001 --> 00:10:28,878

Which is actually it's

an interesting story, you start

208

00:10:28,878 --> 00:10:31,631

your, your book out with this actually,

which is, which is pretty neat.

209

00:10:31,631 --> 00:10:33,007

So I'm gonna just quick read that again.

210

00:10:33,007 --> 00:10:36,010

You just quoted it before, but,

let's let's hit this again.

211

00:10:36,093 --> 00:10:39,972

For whatever things were written before

were written for our learning

212

00:10:39,972 --> 00:10:43,351

that we, through the patience and comfort

of the scriptures, might have hope.

213

00:10:43,768 --> 00:10:46,771

It's Romans 15, verse four.

214

00:10:46,771 --> 00:10:47,813

and then you said, you know,

215

00:10:47,813 --> 00:10:49,899

you made the point that he goes on

to quote the Old Testament

216

00:10:49,899 --> 00:10:52,109

multiple times in that,

in that same chapter.

217

00:10:52,109 --> 00:10:52,401

Okay.

218

00:10:52,401 --> 00:10:55,363

So how do we apply

what Paul says there in that verse?

219

00:10:55,404 --> 00:10:55,863

Sure.

220

00:10:55,863 --> 00:10:58,324

So Paul

wrote a lot of other things as well.

221

00:10:58,324 --> 00:11:02,995

And part of that is in first Corinthians

chapter ten and in first Corinthians ten,

222

00:11:03,788 --> 00:11:06,791

Paul takes the wilderness

journey of Israel

223

00:11:07,124 --> 00:11:09,835

and he applies it to the Christian life.

224

00:11:09,835 --> 00:11:10,336

Okay.

225

00:11:10,336 --> 00:11:12,672

He says that they were all baptized

in the Red sea.

226

00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:15,341

He says this is how they failed.

This is how they failed.

227

00:11:15,341 --> 00:11:18,052

You know, don't don't follow in that way.

228

00:11:18,052 --> 00:11:19,595

First Corinthians ten.

229

00:11:19,595 --> 00:11:23,599

The earlier part of the chapter,

I think, is illustrating very well

230

00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:27,228

an example of things

that we should be learning

231

00:11:27,228 --> 00:11:31,982

from the wilderness journeys

and applying to our applying to our lives.

232

00:11:32,274 --> 00:11:36,570

First Corinthians ten also calls

it examples, and it calls it admonition.

233

00:11:37,738 --> 00:11:41,992

So we're

neglecting examples that are for us.

234

00:11:42,159 --> 00:11:44,036

We're neglecting admonition.

235

00:11:44,036 --> 00:11:44,870

That's for us.

236

00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:47,873

If we neglect those stories.

237

00:11:47,873 --> 00:11:49,458

And then very similarly.

238

00:11:49,458 --> 00:11:51,502

Second Timothy three.

239

00:11:51,502 --> 00:11:52,920

Here we have the same writer again.

240

00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,340

He calls the Old Testament,

profitable for doctrine

241

00:11:56,757 --> 00:12:00,886

and for reproof and for correction

and for instruction and righteousness.

242

00:12:01,762 --> 00:12:04,223

So I think all those things

are simply illustrating

243

00:12:04,223 --> 00:12:07,226

that they viewed this as authoritative.

244

00:12:07,309 --> 00:12:10,229

It's, remains authoritative,

not the Torah.

245

00:12:10,229 --> 00:12:13,190

The Torah has been replaced

by Jesus, the new Moses,

246

00:12:13,566 --> 00:12:16,485

but the Old Testament as a whole,

247

00:12:16,485 --> 00:12:19,488

with the caveat of not the,

248

00:12:19,822 --> 00:12:23,159

Torah has, a lot of doctrine

249

00:12:23,367 --> 00:12:26,370

and instruction for us today.

250

00:12:28,539 --> 00:12:30,708

So this may have to do more with history,

251

00:12:30,708 --> 00:12:33,711

but let me, let me just use an example.

252

00:12:33,836 --> 00:12:36,297

So Abraham was called

253

00:12:36,297 --> 00:12:39,383

by God out of the land of

Ur like 4000 years ago, roughly.

254

00:12:40,551 --> 00:12:41,093

You know, how does

255

00:12:41,093 --> 00:12:44,180

something like that, far in the past

still matter to us today?

256

00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:47,808

Like why should we care about events

in the Old Testament

257

00:12:47,808 --> 00:12:50,936

say, that are just so many generations

back?

258

00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:54,440

Like, how do we

why should we even care about that?

259

00:12:54,857 --> 00:12:57,902

That might have to do more

with does history matter?

260

00:12:57,902 --> 00:12:59,570

Almost. You know what I mean? But yeah.

261

00:12:59,570 --> 00:13:01,197

How would you answer

someone who says that?

262

00:13:01,197 --> 00:13:03,866

It's a good question

because Abraham was 4000 years ago.

263

00:13:03,866 --> 00:13:05,159

That's a long time ago.

264

00:13:05,159 --> 00:13:09,580

But thousands of years before Abraham,

we have Adam and Eve in the garden.

265

00:13:09,955 --> 00:13:14,043

And it's interesting that Jesus said

to the Pharisees who were challenging him.

266

00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:17,630

He said,

haven't you read that at the beginning?

267

00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:19,799

The creator made them male and female.

268

00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:23,719

And he says, for that reason a man

will leave his father, mother, and so on.

269

00:13:24,512 --> 00:13:27,515

So that's long before Abraham.

270

00:13:27,973 --> 00:13:30,017

Thousands of years before Abraham.

271

00:13:30,017 --> 00:13:33,729

and Jesus said, you know, haven't you read

what happened at the beginning.

272

00:13:34,021 --> 00:13:36,607

Like that

should be meaningful meaningful to you.

273

00:13:36,607 --> 00:13:40,444

He says because of this, for this reason

that a man will leave his father

274

00:13:40,444 --> 00:13:41,570

and mother.

275

00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:44,031

So that's, I think, interesting that

276

00:13:44,031 --> 00:13:47,368

all the way back to the beginning,

all the way back to the Garden of Eden.

277

00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:48,035

There's,

278

00:13:49,954 --> 00:13:50,996

examples

279

00:13:50,996 --> 00:13:53,999

that should be meaningful to our lives

today.

280

00:13:54,416 --> 00:13:57,837

As in you know these stories

are still relevant for our lives.

281

00:13:58,629 --> 00:14:01,298

In that way. Yes. Okay.

282

00:14:01,298 --> 00:14:04,176

And also you could go into

283

00:14:04,176 --> 00:14:07,012

in general why,

you know, why history itself matters.

284

00:14:07,012 --> 00:14:10,015

Or like the history,

the story from the world, really the story

285

00:14:10,224 --> 00:14:13,102

throughout time that got us to here,

you know, and we talked about that

286

00:14:13,102 --> 00:14:16,105

a little bit in the, in the other episode

we did with you.

287

00:14:17,273 --> 00:14:17,606

Okay.

288

00:14:17,606 --> 00:14:20,818

So I have to I have to ask a little more

specifically here.

289

00:14:21,318 --> 00:14:24,321

What's your favorite

book in the Old Testament?

290

00:14:25,239 --> 00:14:27,741

Well, I love the Old Testament as a whole,

291

00:14:27,741 --> 00:14:31,453

but, if I were to try to identify,

what part of it is

292

00:14:31,453 --> 00:14:36,000

my favorite,

The Pentateuch kind of has my my interest.

293

00:14:37,459 --> 00:14:40,379

First Corinthians

ten that I already cited, mentions

294

00:14:40,379 --> 00:14:43,924

a lot of things that happened

that are recorded in numbers and,

295

00:14:44,758 --> 00:14:47,720

and Exodus, maybe Deuteronomy as well.

296

00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,056

But yeah, numbers and and Exodus

that illustrate,

297

00:14:52,141 --> 00:14:55,144

lessons

that Paul thought are meaningful today.

298

00:14:55,144 --> 00:14:58,147

And I think we can, like, derive a lot of,

299

00:14:58,564 --> 00:15:01,483

instruction for us to this day.

300

00:15:01,483 --> 00:15:04,486

I think it's a foreshadowing

of the Christian life.

301

00:15:04,820 --> 00:15:06,196

And that should be meaningful.

302

00:15:06,196 --> 00:15:09,199

And I think that will forever

intrigued me.

303

00:15:09,491 --> 00:15:11,076

That's. Yeah. That's interesting.

304

00:15:11,076 --> 00:15:14,079

I have to be honest it's been a minute

since I read numbers, you know, so

305

00:15:14,371 --> 00:15:16,415

I might have to give that another go.

306

00:15:16,415 --> 00:15:17,374

Yeah. Okay.

307

00:15:17,374 --> 00:15:21,128

So as we, as we wrap this, this up,

what is a piece

308

00:15:21,128 --> 00:15:25,090

you can leave with our audience to,

to encourage them to get into

309

00:15:25,090 --> 00:15:28,093

the Old Testament more,

to read it more, engage with it more,

310

00:15:28,093 --> 00:15:30,888

study it and so forth. Sure.

311

00:15:30,888 --> 00:15:33,015

I don't know what to say

except to jump in.

312

00:15:33,015 --> 00:15:35,726

It's like the Old Testament

has a lot of value.

313

00:15:35,726 --> 00:15:38,020

I think oftentimes when people want to go

314

00:15:38,020 --> 00:15:41,023

to the Old Testament,

they find it, difficult.

315

00:15:41,398 --> 00:15:44,401

But part of the reason is just,

I think, lack of familiarity.

316

00:15:44,985 --> 00:15:49,198

And the more you can become familiar

with it, the more, meaning it will bring.

317

00:15:49,698 --> 00:15:53,243

I think we need to, like, place

ourselves into their worldview.

318

00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:56,664

They weren't living

in the time that we're living.

319

00:15:56,664 --> 00:15:58,624

So place yourselves back.

320

00:15:58,624 --> 00:16:00,918

At that time,

you were under the law of Moses. So what?

321

00:16:00,918 --> 00:16:03,921

What did these people mean

when they said the things that they said?

322

00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:07,758

And I think that the more that you delve

323

00:16:07,758 --> 00:16:11,136

into it, the more sense it will make,

the more intrigue it will bring.

324

00:16:11,512 --> 00:16:13,639

And, after a while,

you won't be able to stop.

325

00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:18,268

That's that's, that's a really.

326

00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:20,729

Yeah. That's a that's really powerful.

327

00:16:20,729 --> 00:16:25,359

I really hope this has encouraged people

to to read the old Testament more.

328

00:16:25,359 --> 00:16:29,613

I, I'm kind of with you there

that I, I really enjoy the Old Testament.

329

00:16:29,697 --> 00:16:30,489

I don't know why.

330

00:16:30,489 --> 00:16:31,365

I just always have.

331

00:16:31,365 --> 00:16:34,994

It's just that

there are so many things going on.

332

00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:39,081

There is such a rich, multi-layered,

you know, there's there's a lot of depth

333

00:16:39,081 --> 00:16:42,209

going on in these stories

and, the prophets

334

00:16:42,209 --> 00:16:45,379

and especially the major prophets,

some really fascinating stuff.

335

00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:47,131

One more thing I might mention

336

00:16:47,131 --> 00:16:50,134

is that when you get a better picture

of the Old Testament,

337

00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:51,802

then you read the New Testament.

338

00:16:51,802 --> 00:16:55,639

Now suddenly, you see that

these old, that the New Testament writers

339

00:16:55,848 --> 00:16:58,851

are making a lot of references

back to the Old Testament.

340

00:16:59,143 --> 00:17:01,854

They don't always say

it was written such and such,

341

00:17:01,854 --> 00:17:04,648

but you can see what they're thinking,

and they're thinking of things

342

00:17:04,648 --> 00:17:08,152

that have been written thousands of years

before have become a part of their life.

343

00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:11,947

It's like all the allusions back

you know the, it's

344

00:17:12,448 --> 00:17:14,742

Oh we had Paul Lamicela on the podcast.

345

00:17:14,742 --> 00:17:16,118

I'm again

I'm not sure if it's going to be out

346

00:17:16,118 --> 00:17:19,788

when we release this one, but he,

he was talking about revelation and how,

347

00:17:20,497 --> 00:17:23,208

it's weaving in all these themes with Eden

348

00:17:23,208 --> 00:17:26,420

and the temple and tabernacle

and God dwelling with.

349

00:17:26,628 --> 00:17:28,964

And it's like this tapestry,

it's woven all together.

350

00:17:28,964 --> 00:17:31,008

And if you only take just the one piece,

you know,

351

00:17:31,008 --> 00:17:32,968

you read that chapter in Revelation,

that's it.

352

00:17:32,968 --> 00:17:34,511

Then you're like,

okay, that's that's good.

353

00:17:34,511 --> 00:17:36,889

But you're going to miss

so many layers of meaning

354

00:17:36,889 --> 00:17:39,016

because you haven't read Ezekiel

and you haven't read,

355

00:17:39,016 --> 00:17:40,392

you know, Genesis and all this stuff.

356

00:17:40,392 --> 00:17:44,438

And I was like, You know, to be honest,

I have not read Ezekiel in a long time,

357

00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,440

you know,

and so it was kind of an encouragement

358

00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,525

for me was like, oh,

I should probably pick up Ezekiel again.

359

00:17:48,525 --> 00:17:49,693

You know, and and so forth.

360

00:17:50,694 --> 00:17:51,820

Wow, this is fascinating.

361

00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:53,030

Is there anything else you would like to

362

00:17:53,030 --> 00:17:56,033

to leave us as we as we wrap it up,

I think that largely covers it.

363

00:17:56,116 --> 00:17:58,035

Like I said, jump in.

364

00:17:58,035 --> 00:17:59,244

That's that's fantastic.

365

00:17:59,244 --> 00:18:01,121

That's a, that's a good note to end it on.

366

00:18:01,121 --> 00:18:04,458

So I'm hoping the listeners

will, will take this and go to the,

367

00:18:04,625 --> 00:18:05,584

go to the Old Testament.

368

00:18:05,584 --> 00:18:06,126

Yeah.

369

00:18:06,126 --> 00:18:07,044

So appreciate it.

370

00:18:07,044 --> 00:18:09,838

Thank you for sharing. Thank You!

371

00:18:09,838 --> 00:18:12,841

Thanks for listening to this episode

with Glenn Martin.

372

00:18:12,841 --> 00:18:14,009

If you found this interesting,

373

00:18:14,009 --> 00:18:17,346

you should check out the episode we did

with Steven Russell on the Old Testament

374

00:18:17,346 --> 00:18:20,349

and Nonresistance,

and you can find it linked down below.

375

00:18:20,724 --> 00:18:23,227

Consider joining our partner program,

which is for those

376

00:18:23,227 --> 00:18:25,479

that give a monthly gift of any amount.

377

00:18:25,479 --> 00:18:29,441

Partners get access to an exclusive

podcast as well as other bonus material,

378

00:18:29,441 --> 00:18:33,153

and you can sign up on our website

at anabaptistperspectives.org.

379

00:18:33,487 --> 00:18:35,823

Thanks again

and we'll see you in the next episode.