All right.

You ready to do this all day?

Let's do it.

All right.

Welcome, Gray.

To.

To dad from dad, the podcast.

Yeah, man.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So glad you're here.

Hey, I appreciate the invite.

I mean, you told me about this a couple months ago and I was psyched.

I love this idea.

Yeah.

So I'm gonna tell the story about what I subjected you to.

So I got a new truck a couple months ago, and I wanted to get a smart cap camper shell for it.

They're super expensive and I'm super cheap.

So we drove from San Antonio to Harlingen.

Yeah.

We left at 4 o' clock in the morning.

4Am, 4 hours.

Got it for 50% the price of new.

Yeah.

You drove all the way back?

I think on the way down there, I told you my life story.

And I think on the way back I told you about the podcast.

Yes.

And you were like, dude, you need to do this.

I love it.

So one of the guys that's been really pushing me to do this, I appreciate that.

It was wonderful, man.

That was a.

That was a cool time.

A good opportunity to get to know you a little bit better.

Yeah.

I mean, it's been a couple of years, but, man, eight hours in the car, you.

You just grind it out like, let's get into the nitty gritty of it.

Right.

That'll do it.

One.

That was.

That was cool.

Yeah.

All right, so let's just start by.

Tell us, you know, for people that don't know you, tell us.

How would you describe what your family looks like today and what stage of life would you say you're in?

That's a good one.

So definitely what people would call a blended family.

Right.

So my wife and I were both married and divorced, both had kids.

When we got married in 2019, she had a boy and a girl.

I had a girl.

So when we're all together, we have a family of three plus two dogs that are just really round things out.

Right.

So, yeah, it's.

What?

I guess the common term today is a blended family.

Yeah.

Stage of my life, I'd say somewhere between awesome and chaos.

Right.

It's a.

It's.

Every day is a new mystery.

My work situation is awesome.

And honestly, the home situation is awesome too.

But when you have a 14 year old and two 11 year olds, man, every.

Every day just brings a new.

A new challenge to tackle, if you will.

Yeah, yeah.

So your wife has a 14 year old daughter.

Yes.

And an 11 year old son.

Correct.

And then you have an 11 year.

Old daughter, 11 year old daughter.

Yeah.

All right.

So she lives about three and a half hours away.

Wow.

So.

And I get her on the first, third and fifth weekends.

And then summer.

Spring break, you know, and summer Christmas break.

Yeah.

Okay.

So.

And then my wife's two.

Their dad is out of the picture, so they're full time with us.

Yep.

So we go from having two kids to three to.

To two to three.

Right.

So there's.

That can create some imbalance.

Right.

You're.

You're throwing a new kid every once in a while who's not there 100 of the time, even though that creates its own challenges.

Yeah.

I love it when my daughter's there and it's all five of us.

That's when my heart is full.

Right.

That is when I feel like my family's complete.

Yeah.

So how old were they when you and Shannon got married?

So, man, I'm not great at math, so let me.

Let me do some math here.

It was six years ago that we.

Got married, so five and eight.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay.

Wow.

Five years old.

Okay.

And then I met them.

So I met them when they were three and five.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Do you mind telling us the story about how you and Shannon met?

It's such a cool story.

I don't know.

I love that, man.

I'd be happy to share that.

So my brother and I was living in Houston, he was living in Dallas, and we went.

We met up in New Braunfels and went to a show at Green hall to see the Wood Brothers Band that he and I both adore and had never seen before.

So we're like, man, let's.

Let's go to Green Hall.

Let's see this show.

It was early December of 2016, and so we get there early.

We.

For anybody who's not familiar with Green hall, it's mostly just a wide open dance hall, but there's a couple of places where you can stand on, like, some built in benches.

So we got there early and got to one of these benches.

Show goes on.

It is a fantastic night.

Everything was great.

I was newly single and not really on the prowl, but obviously, you know, I. I kind of kept my eyes open for the crowd, and, man, this really beautiful blonde had walked in and I kind of saw her.

I thought she was kind of looking our way, but, you know, maybe not.

But she walked by and happened to walk right by our bench to go to the bathroom.

And I just tapped her on the shoulder.

She looked up, I said, hey, you could probably See the show a lot better from up here if you want to.

And her friend goes, she'd love to.

I don't know if she wanted that, but she did.

She ended up.

She went to the bathroom, went back, got her drink, and then came in and stood between my brother and I.

And she talked to both of us for.

For quite a while, and then I ended up getting her number and calling her later, and we started dating then.

Dude, that's amazing.

I love it because it's such, like a.

A classic Texas love story.

Green hall, dude.

Are you kidding me?

At a concert.

It was a.

It was a fun night.

Yeah, it was.

It is a great story.

Everybody's like, oh, how'd you all meet?

You know, wasn't on some app or.

Yeah.

Or swiping through whatever.

Right.

I've never done that.

I've no idea what that world is like.

Yeah.

And super grateful.

Right?

I know you don't know that either.

No, I'm very grateful.

I.

You know, I was actually.

I had no idea that I wanted to jump back into anything.

And it happened extremely organically.

I 100% believe that God put her at my life at that time and said, hey, you don't need to go make a bunch of mistakes.

I got you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tell us about.

So.

Shannon's got kind of a tough work schedule.

You guys are navigating a blended family, right?

What.

What would you say is.

Is unique or challenging?

Just about parenting a blended family that other people.

That other people wouldn't know about or.

Or maybe that other people that have blended families might resonate with.

Just to know that, like, this is.

You're.

They're not struggling alone, you know?

Yeah.

So I think let's take a step back real quick, because without the blended family, being married to somebody who has a seven on, seven off work schedule creates its own challenges.

Right, Right.

That the blended thing really doesn't even play a part in.

It's just.

Just that, like, when she's working her seven days, I mean, she's working.

Right.

So I've got to really navigate that.

Sorry.

Excuse me.

As best I can to.

To be there to support her and, you know, take care of the kids and, you know, for whatever they need.

Mostly playing Uber, you know, But I try to be there to take as much off of her shoulders as I can.

She's still the mom.

She still, you know, is there to tuck in the kids a bed, and honestly, most nights she even still makes dinner.

But, you know, there's.

It's a lot when you work for that schedule.

So.

Yeah, then you jump into the blended thing.

Right.

And so the first, third and fifth weekend, I'm going to be gone for, you know, four or five hours every Friday and Sunday because I've got a, almost a two hour trip to either pick up my daughter or drop her off.

Right.

And then turn around and come back.

So it's between four and a half and five hours on both Friday and Sunday where I'm just gone.

Right.

So my wife is working or she's not.

Like, I just, I.

That's when I have to go.

Yeah.

So luckily the other two are old enough that they can be at home by themselves, so that actually makes things a lot easier.

You know, one of the huge benefits is we've got a lot of fans, friends, family, and we've got her, her parents, my in laws, live right down the street.

So that is a huge blessing and a huge help.

Yeah.

What was the other question?

Sorry, I wanted to, I wanted to hit that one first.

No, just, you know what, what's hard about, you know, the parenting setup that you guys have and, and navigating just blended family in general.

Yeah.

I don't think anything is extraordinarily hard.

Yeah.

If anything, I'd say it's a blessing.

And I do think that really taking the time to figure out how you're going to frame that in your own head is going to guide you on to how you navigate it.

If I just sat there and meant, man, this is difficult.

I've got to drive, you know, eight to 10 hours every other weekend.

I've got this, this, this, Right.

I, I think I could really get myself in a place where, you know, hey, this is not fun.

I don't want to do this.

I don't enjoy it.

You know, that's not the way I look at it.

Yeah.

And I hope the way it's never the way I look at it.

I think it's a blessing.

So let me put it like this.

Like every other weekend, I get two hours by myself.

I can listen to a podcast.

I can just think about, you know, what the week was like, what's coming up.

I get some time to myself, which a lot of people say, hey, I never have any time.

Right.

I got a bunch of windshield time, man.

It's a, it can be a real blessing.

Yeah.

And then I pick up my daughter and I've got two hours of uninterrupted time with her.

Yeah.

And, man, not a lot of parents.

Get that either, you know, that's One of the things I was.

I.

As.

I was just kind of thinking about you today before we sat down, I was.

This is one of the questions I wanted to ask you is, like, what is the drive?

Like, so you.

You haven't seen her in two weeks.

You pick her up.

You got two hours, two and a half hours to get back here.

And then what's the drive home like?

Yeah, so the drive after I pick her up is awesome.

I get a download of everything, right?

We.

We start with.

So y' all have, like, a cadence.

Like, she.

You know.

You know, more or less.

Yeah, more or less.

Just, you know, I call her every other day, almost religiously.

Yeah.

I don't always get to talk to her, but I call.

Yeah.

And she knows that, and I get it.

You know, there's stuff going on.

For whatever reason, I don't always get to talk to her.

So I.

When we get in that car to head back to San Antonio, I'm like, all right, what's been up?

Like, walk me through the week.

We usually.

Because, you know, she's only 11.

I don't go back two full weeks because it just.

It all gets jumbled.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we just go, all right, what'd you do on Monday?

What'd you do on Tuesday?

We go through everything, right?

And I get every story that she can remember, every practice, you know, whatever test she had, all that.

And she does a really good job of giving me that weak layout.

And then she hits the end of that.

I'm like, all right, what was the funnest thing that happened?

What was the best meal you had?

Tell me a funny story about one of you and one of your friends.

Right?

Then I just pepper with a couple of questions that usually just sparks more conversation or.

Oh, and I forgot to tell you about this.

Right.

But that uninterrupted time is.

Man, it's magic.

Yeah.

If I didn't have that opportunity, I don't.

I don't think I'd even know that.

What I was missing.

But I get to seize on it.

Man, I. I hadn't thought of that.

Like, there's probably a lot of blended families or dads or moms who go pick up their kids, and it's like 15 minutes away, 10 minutes away, you know?

Or they meet up somewhere and they've got a short drive.

It's, in a weird way, it's.

It's kind of a blessing.

It is that you and her have that time to get caught up to before.

It's kind of like she's introduced back into Yalls household and y' all are caught up.

Dude, that's amazing.

Yeah, it is really cool.

If there were any issues, like, I mean, honestly, the, the last time she was here, there were some issues between the three of them.

And we had talked about, you know, some ways to resolve that.

And so coming back this last time, I was like, hey, do you remember what we talked about?

She's like, yeah.

I said, all right, what was it?

You know, and she kind of went through some of the things and I said, all right, awesome.

So now you know what I expect, you know, as you're.

You're here this time, we're not gonna, we're not gonna have any repeats of that, right?

No, sir.

No, I got it.

Right.

So able to really break that down and say, hey, you know, we've got two hours.

Do you have any questions about this?

Yeah, let's talk about a specific things.

Yeah.

You know, and I, I feel like it gives me the opportunity to probably be kinder to her when she does something wrong because we have so much time to get into it.

And I feel like outside of that, it would be like, hey, why did you do this?

Like, you know, I'm going to harp on you for a little bit.

I'm going to be frustrated with you, and then it's over.

Yeah, but with her, I get all that time.

So I'm like, all right, we're really going to, we're going to focus on how to, to nip this in the butt.

Dude.

I'm so.

I'm.

I'm just kind of reeling here because I'm just struck with.

And anybody listening, I'm not, I'm not trying to make them feel bad, but I'm thinking about myself here.

Like, I don't know that I spent.

Because you spend four hours of dedicated conversational time with your 11 year old daughter every two weeks.

To be fair, I get two hours because usually she's wiped.

And so the two hour drive on Sunday, it's pretty quiet.

She sleeps for about an hour and a half of it.

Okay.

All right.

But.

But just to be honest, but, but.

Even then, you know, I, I don't know that with.

I have an 11 year old.

I just turned 11 yesterday.

I don't know that I give her two hours of dedicated conversation time every two weeks.

I.

So to the two who live with me, I don't.

I know I don't.

Yeah, right.

And it feels weird sometimes.

Yeah.

I have dinners with them every night.

Right.

Right.

And I I hear about their day that day.

Right.

And I drop them off at school.

Usually about half the time I pick them up from school.

So I, I get a lot of that time, but it's not the one on one and it's not that extended amount of time where we can do a deep dive like.

I can.

Yeah.

Tell me, are there days where you go pick her up and, you know, she's just not in the mood to talk?

Not yet.

Not yet.

No.

No.

Luckily.

Yeah.

At 11, sixth grade.

Yeah.

N. She's excited to see her dad.

I'm excited to see her.

Yeah.

And now we just roll right in.

Yeah.

Having a 14 year old, I know that that day is coming.

Yeah.

Right.

And she's great.

She's absolutely wonderful.

And usually she'll open up and talk, but you know, they hit that age, you know, early high school where, you know, they're figuring a lot of things out and they're not necessarily wanting to talk about it all.

Yeah, yeah.

But no, at 11, she's diarrhea.

The mouth.

I want to tell you all the things, dad.

Yeah.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

This kind of transitions into something else I wanted to ask you, which is how do you balance.

Maximizing your time with her but also still being a father in the, you know, in the way of fathers or, you know, dads are instrumental in like, you know, discipline and accountability and just kind of that, that, that's kind of a bit a big role that fathers play.

That's got to be tough for you.

I mean, at least if I think about it.

Just because you, you want to balance fun time, but you've also got to be dad.

Yeah.

What does that look like?

So you ask how I balance that and the honest answer is terribly.

I'm not great at that.

And I know I'm not.

I'll throw another curveball at you when it comes to this, this specific topic.

Every dad I know treats his littlest girl.

If he has a.

If his youngest kid is a girl, he treats her a little bit different.

So I've got a little girl who also is the one that I don't see as much as.

So I feel like I'm hardwired.

I already want to treat her a little bit different because she's the youngest.

Yeah.

But then I don't spend as much time with her and so that compounds that opportunity to take it easier on her when I know I don't with the other two.

Yeah.

Because, well, a, they're not the youngest and B, they live with me.

Full time.

And so they know the expectations of the house.

Yeah.

And you know, and then my daughter rolls in and goes, I'm kind of gonna.

I'm kind of gonna do whatever I want and I'm gonna push some buttons and I'm gonna, you know, kind of get on some people's nerves.

And I look at her, I'm like, oh, come on.

Yeah.

Like, it's almost like, don't make me do this.

Yeah.

This.

This is supposed to be like our weekend.

I really don't want to spend it yelling at you and.

Right.

Putting you in your room or whatever the whole time.

Yeah.

And so I've done a pretty bad job at kind of keeping those expectations level, which is something my wife and I have talked a lot about.

And I'm working on it.

Yeah.

And I'm aware of it.

Yeah.

And as she gets a little older, I think is.

And it's not necessarily easier, but I'm seeing it more because ultimately I. I need to raise a good kid.

Yeah.

And in order to do that there, those expectations need to be followed, the rules need to be followed, and I can't let one slide because I don't see her as much.

And that's actually, you know, what I brought up.

But hey, you remember some of the stuff we talked about and she said.

Yeah, tell me about that.

It's exactly what it was actually.

Yeah.

Was, you know, you need to stop being a turd.

Yeah.

Stop pushing buttons.

Start.

Stop causing havoc just because you think it's fun.

Right.

Right.

And then you get to leave and go, haha.

Right.

And I love her so much.

I love all three of them.

They're all amazing and.

And special in their own ways.

And they such amazing different personalities and they mesh really well.

Maybe 90 of the time and then there's that 10 of the time where they're just like any siblings.

They just.

They're ready to just claw it out.

Yeah.

So just trying to figure all that out and do it a little bit more evenly and maybe a little bit more lovingly.

You mentioned something that I want you to talk a little more about, which is you and Shannon talk about this.

Oh, yeah.

How does that.

You know, when you.

When.

When you think about things like fairness.

Right.

When you think about just emotional awareness of the impact on the two that are with you full time and the one that's not.

What do those conversations look like between you and Shannon and what have you found works and like, what doesn't work?

Because that's a big reason why we're here on this podcast is what works and what doesn't work.

Right.

So.

So that's an interesting thing that we're still trying to figure out how to navigate.

Well, I know for me, being called out, being like, hey, you know, da, da, da, da, da.

Like, I get defensive quick.

Yeah.

Right.

So, so what we have found is holding things until Sunday night or Monday and discussing them.

Hey, you know, this happened, this happened, this happened.

Then I get super frustrated because I'm like, I can't do anything about it now.

I'm not going to see her for 12 days.

Like, do you want me to go tell an 11 year old that they screwed up 12 days ago?

It's not, it's not going to work.

Yeah, we're not going to fix anything that way.

So one of the, the biggest changes that we're making is addressing things immediately.

Hey, if this goes down, I need to know, right?

I need to be able to step in and not, not wait.

I don't want to address it later.

Hey, come to me.

What's going on?

Let's address it.

That's probably the biggest first step.

And the other one is for me personally is, hey, when this is brought up, I need to be less defensive and more understanding.

I think if I walked up to any guy, if I walked up to you and Leah and I was like, hey, your youngest daughter is being a punk, your immediate reaction is probably going to be, the hell did you just say about my girl?

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

If you said that about any of my kids, any, any one of them.

Yeah.

What?

I just, I immediately get defensive.

Yeah.

So navigating that in a way that's, that's loving.

That's like, hey, we need to make some adjustments here.

So it's all in the conversation.

Yeah.

That is an interesting dilemma, what you said about.

I think in relationships, everybody learns that, you know, cooler heads prevail.

From the standpoint of the best time to probably talk about something that upset you or wasn't, Wasn't good for you is, is probably not in the moment.

Right.

But for you, there's this element where with kids, you, you can't go back like two weeks ago, like you said, and say, hey, do you remember two weeks ago when you said this?

That doesn't work.

No, that, that's, that's a complex situation to be in, man.

Yes.

Because it, like, like you and Shannon have got to, you've got to be, man, that's tough.

You've got to navigate that in a way where you can address it right then.

But you've both got to come at it from a place of like, hey, we're.

We're on the same team here, but I need you to know this isn't working.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Hey, yeah.

This is coming from a place of love.

Well, we gotta address something that needs to be done now.

Yeah.

And that's something we were not doing.

We were saving it for later.

And it was.

It was a total fail.

I think it really.

We had a long talk about it just a couple weeks ago.

We were driving back from Austin.

Hey, like, there's been some tension.

Let's talk about it.

And that was one of the immediate things that I recognized.

I was like, okay, we're sitting on this too long, and I can't.

I can't be reactionary.

I can't make any steps to change anything if I don't know a lot sooner.

Yeah.

You know, because what was happening is I would leave with my youngest daughter and the three of them would sit around and they would all do it.

Kind of a quick debrief about all the stuff that had gone wrong.

Oh, and you guys aren't there.

And I'm not there, she's not there.

Like, the two of us are on a two hour trek.

Yeah.

I'm not back for four or five hours.

Yeah.

And then, you know, I walk in and Shannon's like, hey, we gotta talk.

Yeah.

So I hear all these things and I'm like, man, I can't do anything right now about that.

Right.

And I get, like, I get why everything.

Everybody was getting so frustrated.

Yeah.

Oh, hey, guys, we got an opportunity to.

To fix this, but we got to do it before I leave with her.

Yeah.

So.

And this is a pretty new revelation.

I mean, we just talked about that in the last couple weeks.

Yeah.

I was like, hey, let's.

Let's modify here.

Yeah.

I actually sat down with the two who live with us and said, hey, I need to ask you guys for a big favor.

Yeah.

What's up?

I said, hey, when, you know the youngest daughter's here.

Said, I know there's been some issues.

Said, y' all are saving it and you're talking about it, and we're all discussing it later after she's gone.

Yeah.

It's like, guys, I can't help fix any of this if we don't address it until later.

I was like, from now on, please do me a favor.

Bring these things to me when they happen.

Yeah.

You know, if something goes down, you know, somebody takes somebody's video game or, you know, honestly, most of it's really minor.

Yeah.

Like, there's nothing major, but it's, you know, it's kids being kids, and you want them to figure out how to use their words instead of just start poking and picking and.

And, you know, messing with each other.

It's normal sibling drama.

100.

But it's.

It's really just exaggerated by the fact that there's this us versus them.

Yeah.

It's us versus him.

And it's like, well, one of them comes in and starts causing some chaos and then leaves.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like, there doesn't seem to be any.

Any repercussions for that chaos that has caused, which is a.

That was a big thing that I needed to understand because I was like, this is just normal stuff.

Yeah, it really is.

I was like, I grew up.

I had a brother and sister in my house.

I had two stepbrothers who were in and out at a half brother.

So I grew up in a blended, big time blended family.

And I'm like, what's happening in our home with these three?

I was like, this is nothing.

It's really.

It's fine.

But also, that's my reality.

That's not theirs.

Right.

Their reality is things are one way one weekend and one way another, and this doesn't.

These don't add up.

And so I needed to recognize on my end, I was not doing this fairly either.

Yeah.

So.

So just to kind of put a bow on this and ask you a question, if you.

If you could go back and tell yourself, like, hey, you and Shannon need to get on the same page about this, this, and this.

These are like, are there conversations that you wish that you guys had had earlier about parenting a blended family?

And I know that's a loaded question, but.

And you can keep it simple, but is there.

What would you.

What would you want other dads to say?

Like, hey, if you're early in a blended family or you're.

You're gonna get married to someone that already has kids and you have kids, like, here's something I wish we'd talked about sooner.

Would that be.

I don't know if I have anything that I wish we would have talked about sooner, but I will tell you what we did talk about.

Okay.

How about that?

Yeah.

This was really important for me.

Okay.

If we were going to get married again and I was going to.

If I was going to step into a father role, I. I needed everybody to be on board with a me being that father.

Role and not just being the guy in the house.

Yeah.

I wanted to be a father.

I was going to love them 100%, as if it was biological.

I wanted them to do the same.

It was going to be as real, if not more so than the whole biology thing.

Yeah.

I would.

I will say, if you're moving into this blended family, it can be hard, but it also can be the most absolutely rewarding thing you've ever done because you get it.

You get to choose to give your heart to a kid.

Yeah.

And accept theirs.

Yeah.

It's wonderful.

I, I can't imagine my life without them.

Yeah.

But we had to have that conversation of, you know, am I going to be the.

The father that I want to be?

Because I'm not going to be just that guy.

Yeah.

I'm not going to be the guy in the house.

I'm not going to be mom's husband.

Right.

Right.

I'm going to be your dad.

Right.

I wanted that challenge.

I wanted that role.

I wanted that responsibility.

Yeah.

I, I have seen how that goes when it.

It's the other way.

Yeah.

And it hurts my heart.

Yeah.

Because I see stepdads, you know, quote unquote, stepdads who are.

They're not.

Yeah.

And I'm like, you have such a wonderful opportunity to love on a kid.

Yeah.

Why not?

I'm.

I was kind of chuckling because I'm thinking about stepbrothers.

He's like, I'm not gonna call him dad.

You know?

Yeah.

You know, because I, as, I think, and, and in fairness, my dad remarried and I think they got remarried when I was, you know, maybe 14.

And I never called, I never called her mom, you know, still don't call her mom.

I.

Now I call her by her grandma name, which is honestly more comfortable because it was really awkward for me calling her her first name.

But that, that was the setup that was kind of.

I was older and it, it was, it was kind of strange.

And I've always wondered, like, I, I'll tell you what I see that I, When I, and when I see it, I love it is.

I love it when I see stepdads and their step children call them dad.

I think that's fantastic.

Dude.

It's.

And it's, it's, it's no judgment, but it always catches me off guard when, like, there's a stepdad and a mom and there's like a 10 year old boy and he looks at the stepdad and he's like, hey, Doug, you want to go ride Bikes.

It's like, you know, But.

Oh, yeah.

But.

But I.

But I also, from a kid's standpoint, I understand.

Like, there's this weird.

Depending on the age, there's this weird thing.

It's like, you're not my dad.

Yeah.

You know, and that's got to be depending on who you are as a guy coming into that blended family that I would imagine that could be really tough.

Yes.

Because you.

You're making a commitment to these kids.

Yes.

Right.

And to just be.

First name, stepdad can be tough.

But it's awkward to say, you guys can call me dad.

It's like.

So I. I don't know.

I don't know where I'm going with that.

Dude.

I'm just saying that that has to be tough to navigate for sure.

I will tell you.

I. I never push for that thing.

We actually had a conversation with him.

Early on.

I.

It was either.

Right before.

Right after Shannon, I got married.

I think it was right before we got married.

But they started asking, like, you know, we're gonna keep calling you Gray.

Would have.

I was like, yes, that's totally up to y'.

All.

I was like, y' all wanna.

Let's sit down and let's talk about some names.

And I came up with some really cool ones.

Yeah, I. I actually was kind of petitioning.

I was like, call me Chief.

Oh, dude.

I was like, I thought that would be awesome.

What a sweet opportunity to pick your dad name.

Yeah.

Right.

Chief.

What's up, Chief?

You know?

They were like, no.

Yeah.

It was a hard.

No.

I mean, we're talking about, what, six and eight somewhere in there.

Yeah.

No, we're not calling you Chief.

And the little boy was like, why don't we just.

Can we just call you Dad?

I was like, man, that's a.

It's a big step.

I was like, you.

You only get to.

To use that if.

If I'm gonna play that role.

And you really want me to play that role.

Yeah.

And they talked about it and they're like, yeah, let's.

Let's just call you dad.

All right.

This is awesome.

Like, I knew from that moment on, like, it was game on.

I was going to fill that role.

100.

Would you.

Would you encourage that?

Like, that has worked out well.

I guess what I'm saying is, like, if you.

If you were going to give some advice to other people, would you.

Would you suggest that they bring their kids into that conversation?

100.

At least leave the door open.

Yeah, I. I think that's.

I Think that's really wise, dude?

Yeah.

Because if you make the decision for them and I. I'm willing.

I. I don't know, dude, but I'm.

I'm willing to bet there's a lot of couples that get married that have kids, and they probably make that decision in a vacuum where they just decide, like, I'm not going to make my kids call you dad or whatever, but I love the idea of bringing them into the conversation and saying, I want to.

I want to be a father figure to you.

The door is open for you to call me dad, and you don't have to call me dad right away.

If that doesn't feel right right now, that's fine.

I'm.

I may have to earn that title from you for a little while.

Right.

Let's roll with this.

You call me chief.

You know, maybe it sticks, maybe it doesn't.

Right.

But.

But I.

At some point, I would be honored.

Like it is.

I would be honored if you would call me dad.

Right.

But you don't have to.

Let's figure this out together.

Yeah, man.

So I've got a stepmom and a stepdad.

Yeah.

Right.

I.

We didn't have that conversation with either one of them.

It was just.

I hear their names like.

Like you said, hey, Doug.

Yeah.

You know, you want to go ride bikes.

Yes.

There wasn't necessarily anything wrong with that, but I wanted to do something different.

Yeah.

Honestly, as a parent, I have spent a lot of time thinking about my childhood and what I wish would have been done a little bit differently.

Yeah.

Grew up in a blended family.

Now I'm in one myself.

All right.

How can I handle this in a way that I would have appreciated when I was a kid in the situation?

Hey, that's.

Let's.

Let's dive into that a little more.

Okay.

Like, what are a couple things that.

Does anything come to mind that.

Other than what we just talked about.

That was.

That was one of them.

But.

Yeah.

Is there anything else that you felt like, I want to do this differently?

Yes.

I never wanted to my kids to feel like they were a burden for anything.

And you.

You felt that when you were.

You know, it was the.

You know, my dad had to.

To travel back and forth 30, 45 minutes, depending on traffic.

Yeah.

And I just.

The ho hum.

Like I'm on my.

My track again, you know, and it just.

It felt like it was a lot.

Yeah.

I. I'm driving way more than that.

Yeah.

And I don't ever want my daughter to think that it is A hassle to go pick, Pick her up or drop her off.

Yeah.

Like I want her to.

It is the pleasure of my life to get to do that.

Yeah.

Because that means I get to spend that time with you.

Yeah.

So that was one, you know, the, the bad mouth of.

Oh, that's a big.

The ex.

Right.

Yeah, man.

I, I will not partake.

Yeah.

And we've got a not pleasant situation.

It is.

It's been pretty gnarly for the entire time.

Well, I'm not, I'm not gonna talk bad about her.

Yeah.

I, I feel like it's such a disservice.

Yeah.

Won't do it.

I'll be honest.

And if I get any direct questions.

Yeah.

I'll be honest, but I'm not bringing it up.

Yeah.

The kids, the kids.

Leave the kids out of that.

They don't need to be a part of that conversation.

Yeah.

So those are the two that immediately pop in my head.

Yeah, I, man, I, I experienced that too.

My dad very consciously made.

Why.

I'm assuming my dad never talked bad about my mom.

My mom talked bad about my dad.

Yeah.

And I lived with my mom.

You know.

I've actually, man, I, I've never really spent a lot of time thinking about that, but it did impact me.

Right.

And I think there's a lot of value in your approach to that.

So that's good stuff, dude.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

I, I, I, Dude, I love where we went there, but I want to circle back here for just a second.

So.

When you think about you just yourself as an individual, being married, going through divorce, remarrying, and, you know, being married to Shannon now, who's an amazing human being, incredibly intelligent, fierce, Lots more than I am fierce.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What has Shannon taught you about yourself in the last five or six years that, you know, has it.

That has changed you.

A couple of things.

Number one, the, the true love in a marriage like that is described in the Bible.

Right.

The absolute love between a man and woman.

Yeah.

I didn't know what that was until we got together.

She really taught me how to dig in and like, hey, good, bad, like, horrible.

Like, we're going to, we're going to stand on love and strength.

Right.

And we're gonna do it with God.

Yeah.

We're not.

We can't do it on our own.

Yeah.

You know, when her and I, we early started dating, we started going to a church up to 81, and, man, I had been out of the church for a while.

Not necessarily, you know, was no longer a believer, but just was not.

Was not in the Bible, was not in the Word, was not in prayer, was not in church.

Just kind of doing my own thing.

Yeah.

Right.

Look where that got me.

Not in a great place.

So we were going to build a family and a marriage based in the Word and do it with God.

And so she brought me back into that, and I'm forever grateful for that.

Accountability.

She.

She has no problem holding my feet to the fire.

Yeah.

I don't know if I'd really experience that a lot, either.

At least in a relationship with anybody I was dating or even in my.

My first marriage.

I just kind of did what I wanted.

Nothing to be proud of there.

Yeah, man, You're.

You're Your partner.

They.

They should be able to hold you accountable and call you out.

I. I remember once.

This is nothing serious.

It's actually kind of funny.

But she called me out.

She's like, you know, we started dating.

Your arms looked a lot better than they do now.

I was like, oh, gut check.

Roger that, man.

I started hitting the gym hard.

Right?

I mean, but she just.

Straight up, like, we're.

We were brushing our teeth one morning.

She's, like, getting a little soft there, bud.

Yeah.

I used to find you more impressive.

Oh, all right.

Right.

Yeah.

But I love that about her, man.

She will.

She will hold me.

Hold me accountable.

Yeah.

And that is so important.

You.

You said, you know, partner.

Yeah.

Right.

She's my best friend, for sure.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

She's my partner, and.

And I'm incredibly in love with her.

Yeah.

So it's like the trio.

Yeah.

It was just.

It's amazing.

We have.

We've had a tough.

We've had a tough go, man.

Yeah.

The blended thing is one.

But, you know, she.

She.

I'm.

I can go ahead and say it.

She's a doctor.

That's why she does the seven on, seven off.

But we got married 20, 19.

Yeah.

You know, we were.

We were eight months later in Covet.

Yeah.

Right.

Where she.

She was living at the hospital for a while.

Yeah.

I mean, so we navigated all of that.

It was just.

We had a.

Our first year of marriage was really hard.

Yeah.

And it would have been easy for us to go.

You know what?

This is a lot.

Yeah.

Maybe we made a mistake.

Yeah.

But I think both of us.

We just.

Well, I'll speak for myself since she's not here, but I just kept doubling down, tripling down, like, I love you.

This is real.

This is amazing.

I love these kids.

I love this family, like, every time the devil tried to take it, I was just like, nah, not happening, buddy.

Yeah, we would.

I just get down on my knees, I'd pray, we'd go, figure it out.

Yeah, man.

I love that, dude.

I love that the grass is greener where you water it, man.

Right, right.

Yeah, I'm.

I'm lucky you.

You said best friend there too, partner.

Best friend.

Like, dude, I married my best friend.

There is nobody on the planet that I would.

That I could spend as much time with and that I want to spend as much time with.

Right.

As my wife.

And that's a blessing.

Absolutely.

Yeah, Absolutely.

Blessing.

I was talking to my brother and sister about.

I think it was Thanksgiving about this exact same thing.

My sister's single, my brother's has a longtime girlfriend.

But somehow we got on the dynamics of, you know, marriage and relationships and long term.

And, you know, my sister, she's a little bit jaded by that whole concept.

Just, she hasn't, she hasn't experienced it.

I'm like, when you get there, it's like.

And you, you know, you hear that, oh, I die for somebody.

I mean.

Yes.

But I mean, I'd murder more.

Right.

It's like, it is so passionate and, and deep.

And like, once you find that person who is your best friend, but also your quote, unquote soulmate, if you will, you're like, there's nothing I wouldn't do for that.

That person.

Yeah.

Right.

And.

And then the family you create there.

Yep.

Definitely.

Blessed.

Well, dude, let's.

Let's wrap this thing up.

I got, I. I got, I got something.

Because I thought about this.

Okay.

Cuz I had no idea what we were going to talk about.

Yeah.

But I did want to talk about one thing.

Yeah.

Go for it.

When it comes to being a dad.

Okay.

I wish there's something that somebody else would have told me about being a dad.

Please go for it.

So I thought, I, I thought I would bring this one topic up.

Yep.

We.

At least I. I assume most people who are going to be listening to this live in America.

Yeah.

So we.

Land of the free, home of the brave.

Right.

Land of opportunity.

And I, I grew up hearing you can do anything you want.

Right.

And it just seemed like this, like, oh, awesome.

I can do anything I want.

But I feel like that's not true.

I feel like you can do maybe one or two things that you want.

Right.

You can do what you want when you put your mind to and focus on that thing.

Right.

And I think as a dad, we have the opportunity to share this with our kids, because I didn't realize this until, you know, I'm late 30s, early 40s, and I'm like, oh, oh, okay, I get it now.

And what I get is if you have a kid who wants to be a doctor, then you tell them, absolutely.

But every decision you make needs to be based on you being a doctor.

Right.

You.

You don't get to go focus on, you know, your club soccer team until you're 25 and then be like, all right, well, that didn't work out.

Now I'm going to be a doctor.

You probably missed the boat there.

Yeah.

The.

The.

The ability to.

To get our kids to start focusing a little earlier on where they want to head.

And if they don't know, that's okay.

Right.

But if they do, hey, you have the ability to do almost anything you want.

You want to be a vet, you want to be an engineer, you want to design skyscrapers.

Awesome.

Let's get you there.

Right.

And.

And I truly believe that where we live, any of that is possible.

But we don't get to say you can do anything and then let you do anything without ever narrowing.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So how do you.

What does that look like in, like, in the real world?

Like, You know, you think about kids, they want to be a police officer, they want to be a firefighter.

As they get older, that naturally starts to narrow.

But, dude, by the time most people get to college, they switch majors, like, four or five times, right?

Oh, yeah.

So how do you.

I love what you're saying because it's this.

There's reality in what you're telling them, which is, I think a lot of parents spend a lot of times chasing whatever it is that their kids say that they.

That they want to do.

And I'm going to be honest with you.

I think a lot earlier in life, you realize, like, my kid's not going to be in the NBA.

Yeah.

You know, they're going to be five foot six.

Yep.

Right.

Or my kid's not gonna be a professional soccer player, or my kid's not gonna be an astronaut.

You know, how do you.

How do you navigate this.

That reality without crushing, like, just crushing them?

What is it?

What does that look like?

Yeah.

So in all fairness, I have no idea, but we're navigating that.

And what I do think is.

Yeah.

You know, if you're going to be five, six, you're not playing in the NBA.

But if you want to hoop in your free time, get after It.

Right.

That's awesome.

One of the things we've been talking about lately, now that we've got a freshman, is college.

You're not going to college to be a underwater basket weaving major.

Right.

Or, you know, you're going to plan on doing something that is going to give you an opportunity after college to have a successful career.

Right.

You're not going to major in poetry or, you know, any.

I'm trying to think of some of the awful ones.

Honestly, I was a communication major.

I would never let any of my kids be a communication major.

Yeah.

Like, no, you're going to engineering, architecture.

Yeah.

You know, biology, chemistry.

Something that is tangible.

Yeah.

Business, finance, accounting.

Awesome.

Right?

All those things.

If you don't know what you want to be, that's okay.

Right.

But if you do.

And I guess that's what I'm really talking about is if you've got one of those kids who's like, man, I want to be a vet or I want to be a nurse or a doctor.

Excellent.

And not only can you do that, but you can be an incredible one.

But you have to.

You have to start focusing now.

You don't get to.

You shouldn't focus later because it could be too late.

Right.

And this is one of the things I love about my wife is she, like 6, was like, I'm going to be a doctor.

Yeah.

And you can watch her career.

I'm sorry.

Her life choices were all based on becoming a doctor.

Now she's like, doctor of the year.

Right.

Right.

Did an incredible job.

And I watched myself wonder for years and years and years.

Just, yeah, easy major, easy.

This, like sports, girls, whatever.

I wish somebody would have set me down and be like, dude, just pick something and focus on it.

And you know what?

You get an engineering degree from say, A and M, like where I went and he decided, you don't want to be an engineer later.

You're gonna be fine.

Yeah.

Right.

You're gonna be okay.

Yeah.

But you get.

You get a kind of throwaway degree, you're gonna have a lot tougher time.

Yeah.

So I guess I just really.

I want my kids to know that if you have that inkling of, hey, I think I want to do this.

Awesome.

Let's go do it.

Yeah, I.

It makes a lot more sense what you're saying to me now.

I. I'm reminded.

I can't remember who said it, but it.

I. I wrote it down in one of my little journals somewhere, but was.

You know, a lot of people say they want to do Something or be something.

And the only thing holding them back from doing that thing is doing the thing.

Right.

I found myself in that situation with this podcast.

I've been talking about doing this for 18 months.

Right.

I bought the domain for the website 12 months ago, you know, and the example that was given was there's a lot of people out there that say, I want to be a writer.

Yeah.

As an example.

Yeah.

The only thing standing in between you and being a writer is sitting down and writing.

That's right.

Right.

And I think even with your kids, as they start to develop passions or start to express to you that they want to pursue things, kind of what I'm taking from what you're saying here is that they would be better served if you could be more intentional with helping them do the thing sooner and, and, and more intentional or helping them pursue that passion.

Passion.

By saying, like, hey, do you remember how you said you want to be a doctor?

Well, look, if you want to be a doctor, here are some things that you're probably going to have to sacrifice.

It's not a bad thing.

But let's maybe don't go down this path.

And let's go down this path because that's going to help you set up, that you're going to be set up better.

Exactly, man.

That course correction.

Yeah.

Right.

And I, I feel like a lot of parents are like, yeah, they're going to make their own mistakes.

Yeah.

Which is true.

But maybe a little nudge of, hey, remember when we had that talk and you said, I, I want to do this.

Yeah.

Well, I need you to know that you need to course correct.

Because if you continue down this path, you're probably not going to make it.

Yeah.

All right.

So it's.

It's not necessarily crushing their dreams.

Absolutely not.

It's.

It's helping them find their dreams and continue to make the choices to get them to that dream.

There you go.

Yeah, dude.

Yeah.

Maybe I didn't explain it well in the beginning, but.

Yeah, that.

That's where I'm getting at.

Okay.

Like, help them course correct.

Help them stay on that path.

Right.

I think that's an incredible opportunity for a parent is that gentle course correction to, to get them where they.

They said they want to go.

Yeah.

That's good stuff.

My dad just, Just real quick.

Yeah.

My dad was in secondary education college professor, you know, has his PhD.

He, dude, he was adamant that I go to college.

He didn't even.

He didn't care what I got a degree in.

I. I think he did care, but I studied civil engineering for a while, ended up graduating with a business degree.

But I'll tell you what's really interesting.

I graduated college, I don't know, 15 years ago.

I've had conversations with my dad later in life in the last few years, and as we're talking about the girls now, he's come out and said, like, I'm going to be honest with you, man.

I don't know that.

I don't know that they need to go to college unless they're pursuing something that they need to be classically trained in through secondary education.

The days of just needing to get a degree, it's not.

It's not what it used to be.

Right.

You know, and we talk about that a lot about the girls.

You know, we have a.

We have the college fund set up for them, and, you know, we're preparing in case they want to go to college.

But there's a lot of conversation about, like, you know, you don't have to do that.

No.

If my son came up and said, hey, you're in the plumbing world.

You talk about how cool it is and how much you like everybody there.

I think I want to do that.

I would be psyched.

Yeah.

I would be absolutely ecstatic if he was like, man, I'm going to graduate high school.

I'm gonna go do an apprenticeship program, and I'm gonna become a plumber.

And one day, I want to own my own plumbing company.

Yeah, dude.

Hallelujah.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Let's.

Let's make sure that the choices you make between now and then get you there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's.

That's the opportunity for a parent to be like, yes, let me help you stay on that course.

Yeah, let me encourage you to stay on that course.

Yeah.

All right.

I'm.

I'm trying to refine my kind of closing question.

I'm going to try to keep it fairly consistent, I think.

So.

I fumbled through this with Pete last week, but.

When your days on earth are done, What is something that you hope that your kids understand about you?

And, you know, I ask it that way because it's not.

It's not.

How do you want to be remembered?

You're.

You're.

You're.

You got a lot of control over that, your behaviors, all of those things.

But there's this element of what your kids understand about you that I just.

I like.

I just like that question because it's.

It's not necessarily something you can tell them.

Yeah, but what do you hope that they.

That they believe about you or that they understand about you.

I mean, immediately what comes to mind is how much I love them.

Right.

But I want to take such a logical answer.

I hope on top of how much I love them was I tried to base all my decisions off of what was best for them.

And I failed a lot.

Didn't mean to, but I always tried.

I hope that they understand that I always tried to do what was best for them.

I always tried to put them first.

I hope they understand that without leaning on God that you're really going to struggle.

That basing.

Basing your life on your.

On your own two feet is.

Is going to be unbelievably hard.

But.

But your faith can carry you through anything.

I hope they understand that.

Yeah.

And lastly, I. I hope they hope they feel like I was always genuine.

I was always real.

Yeah.

That even.

Even with my screw ups, it like happened.

You gotta understand.

Dad was just who he was.

Right?

He was never pretending.

He was never fake.

He was just.

He was just a real guy who, you know, he loved us.

And you know, it wasn't perfect, but he was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I like that.

That's a good question.

Yeah.

Thanks for being here, Gray.

Thank you for inviting me.

I love this.

I'm so proud of you.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this blended family thing, at least I'm.

I'm hoping that, that, that that resonates with some folks.

And so as people listen and, and we get feedback and comments about topics and things.

Would love to have you back and just hear your perspective on those things.

Absolutely.

I thought you had some really good stuff to say today, so.

Thank you.

I've got some other ideas from some other stuff I want us to chat about, so.

Awesome.

Okay.

Well, until next time.

Appreciate it.

Gray.

Thank you for having me.

See you.