[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the house. Dr. Decks, welcome to around the house, brother.

[00:00:09] Dr Decks: But basically what these heat blankets do is they're designed to repair carbon fiber on Boeing Jets. Okay? So we took this technology and we had the company make us a specific size that we could take a deck board and put it in a, basically a, a silicone heating blanket sandwich, that there's an outside layer of.

[00:00:32] Dr Decks: Um, of insulation, and then there's the heating blankets, and then there's a deck board. And we heat that board up for a certain amount of time at a certain temperature and it becomes pliable. And then when we take it, we take it when it's still hot and we put it into a, a shape or a form that we create on the floor of our shop.

[00:00:53] Dr Decks: And then that becomes the, the new shape of that board when it comes to remodeling and renovating [00:01:00] your home. There is a lot to know though. We've got you covered. This is around the house.

[00:01:07] Eric Goranson: Welcome to the Around the House Show. This is where we talk everything about your home every single week. Thanks for joining us.

[00:01:14] Eric Goranson: We have a special guest in the studio. I've been trying to get this guy on the radio and podcast now for a couple years, and we've finally done it. Dr. Dax, welcome to Around the House, brother. Thanks for having me, Eric. This is great man. Finally, you and I got to connect at that keen utility event and I know my listeners are like another person that you've talked to at Keen Utility, but yes, you and I finally got to sit down and connect a little bit and uh, that was a great time.

[00:01:42] Dr Decks: Absolutely. I really enjoyed it. That was

[00:01:44] Dr Decks: awesome.

[00:01:45] Eric Goranson: So let's talk a little bit about Dex Man, cuz you, to me, across the US are the guru of doing beautiful, well thought out composite decks out there, man. And there's nobody [00:02:00] doing it like you, there's a lot of imitators in my book, but, uh, you're the master out there man.

[00:02:04] Eric Goranson: And, uh, what got you into this?

[00:02:08] Dr Decks: Um, well, you know, you go to school, you go to high school and then you decide, okay, what are we doing here? And, and back in the eighties and the late eighties, um, You know, college was a thing, but it wasn't being pushed on everyone. And I had a stepfather who thought maybe I'd be good in the trades.

[00:02:26] Dr Decks: And I started, uh, working for a management company that was responsible for several hundred apartment complexes, and they put me on a carpentry team. And I was basically, you know, pretty well built in a lot in better shape when I was younger. And, uh, they're like, Hey, you know, you can rip these decks out for us and then, uh, go from there.

[00:02:48] Dr Decks: And, and I had worked with my father a little bit. Uh, in the summertime, uh, learning some of the points of carpentry, but I really kind of got my feet wet, uh, working with these [00:03:00] people, uh, in the, uh, you know, in this apartment complex. Uh, just going back and, and some of these decks should not have ever been even considered, walked on, not even looked at.

[00:03:10] Dr Decks: They were , they were so rotten. Like we, they would have 'em blocked off so people couldn't access 'em. And then I'm outstanding on it, tearing it apart. And I swear I almost killed myself a couple times cuz the decks as the deck is falling, I'm backing up into the breezeway, so I don't, I don't die, you know?

[00:03:25] Dr Decks: And um, that was, that was my intro into construction. And then after a couple years of. I was like 19, decided to move to Reno, Nevada. Worked for my father for a couple years. Uh, he was a master carpenter down there, and he was really into redwood and, and alternate, just mostly wood. Um, and then in 1991, I moved back to Washington State with my fiance, who is my wife now, of over 28 years.

[00:03:53] Dr Decks: Um, and we started Dr. Dax in 1991. Man.

[00:03:59] Eric Goranson: Yeah. [00:04:00] Well done. Well done. And, and you know, it's interesting. It's, it's so interesting how over the years, I mean, a d is a deck, but it's not right. How from 1991 to now how technology has changed and how you built a deck then versus now. Who, who,

[00:04:18] Dr Decks: who would've thought that outdoor living was gonna become such a powerful.

[00:04:23] Dr Decks: A powerful tool for people, uh, to have. And I'm, I'm gonna jump forward quite a bit here and say, you know, Covid, Covid was my enemy and my friend, uh, as people, as the beginning of Covid happened and everything was shutting down. So did my contracts and my, um, agreements with people. I lost, you know, $750,000 worth of work and was stressing out.

[00:04:45] Dr Decks: But then as Covid went on, people, uh, realized, hey, we're staying in this house. I mean, I'm in this house for 26 hours a day, and I need a place I can get outside [00:05:00] and do whatever I want to do outside. You know, I , I felt, I felt bad for these, some of these people. And, and, and, and so the creativity, um, that has, has come forth through the years.

[00:05:14] Dr Decks: Uh, you know, we, I used to bang out wood decks. That's why I got my start treated, pressure treated. And Cedar is king where I live, up in the Pacific Northwest in Tacoma, Washington. I was doing tight, not cedar tight, not cedar. And I was just banging it down with an air gun, you know, nailing face. It was, was stainless steel's, uh, you know, ring shanks or whatever.

[00:05:33] Dr Decks: Yep. And then as synthetic decking came about, I was like, Whoa, what's this? Well, mm-hmm. , you know, anytime you're an early adopter of anything, you're gonna have issues. Uh, dude, that first,

[00:05:45] Eric Goranson: like that first track stuff. Exactly. I have no problem with TrackX, but man, that first stuff compared to where it is now, it was a world of difference.

[00:05:52] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Backwards. That stuff didn't hold

[00:05:54] Dr Decks: up well. Yeah, exactly. It was just ridiculous. So, [00:06:00] um, as technology advanced and, and then, then we started, we're introduced to pvc. And right when PVC used a product called aza. Now it used to be called Pro Sale back then, and, and it might have been called something else before that.

[00:06:14] Dr Decks: You know, I might, I don't know everything about building decks. Um, I just take a different stance or an approach to how I build, and I have a specific style that I've developed over the last 32 years. And, um, I think a lot of people like the way I do a build, but there's other companies that do just as you know, a lot of amazing work, uh, and they add their flare to it as well.

[00:06:37] Dr Decks: And, and I've kind of steered away from certain things, but then I've also adapted into and adopted some really amazing technology to create some really artistic and unique living environments. And I've, I've exploited the heck out of that. Uh, just to make my point, you know, to get a name, dude.

[00:06:57] Eric Goranson: And what you've done with, with [00:07:00] curves and half circles and inlays, uh, is what blew the

[00:07:05] Dr Decks: industry up.

[00:07:06] Dr Decks: Yeah. Automation, which kind of took a break from, because we actually filmed a pilot television show around deck automation. And what deck automation is, is when you take electronics and you actually make parts of decks move. Mm-hmm. And I was like the only guy doing that to my knowledge. Yeah. Um, I was making hatches and panels and then I was like, Oh, let's make a barbecue up here, uh, with a remote control, you know, and let's, um, let's make a set of tables and benches pop up out of the deck.

[00:07:37] Dr Decks: And I was doing all kinds of crazy stuff and we got, we aired on nationally on the DIY network. We, um, we aired twice in the same night. Um, we did not get a series for, I got as close to getting my own television show as you can get without getting one basically. Yeah, and

[00:07:54] Eric Goranson: I'm refreshing. I caught it. I saw it, so it was good.

[00:07:56] Eric Goranson: I liked it. It was, uh,

[00:07:58] hey,

[00:07:58] Dr Decks: I thought it was pretty good too. I [00:08:00] left everything on the table at that point in time. Everything I could. Um, I was working from dark to dark seven days a week, uh, giving away my time, my blood, my sweat, my tears, all of it, uh, for the opportunity to possibly get that big break.

[00:08:17] Dr Decks: Mm-hmm. . And it didn't happen. And that was unfortunate. It took me about a year to get over that. But in the mean, I think

[00:08:24] Eric Goranson: that that was a blessing in disguise, Brother. Let me tell you what. Yeah. Let me tell you what, because, and I'll say this from knowing so many friends out there that came in that way, kind of into the home improvement at your time that you did it, you know, if you'd have done that seven or eight years before, you could have been making really good money at it on hdtv DIY network.

[00:08:46] Eric Goranson: Right, But the stuff now, Uhuh, that's like 500 bucks a week and, uh, yeah,

[00:08:50] Dr Decks: per, per talent. If, if you're the talent you make 500. Here's the deal. If you get three years out of a series, if you get bought for three years, then is when [00:09:00] you start to actually make money. But how many, how many of these shows do you actually see make it three years?

[00:09:06] Dr Decks: Most don't. And when, when I did this show, it was 2016. Mm-hmm. and flip shows were the thing, the hottest thing. There was 30, uh, shows vying for two slots on the, um, On Scripts network. Yeah. On the DIY network. Which script zones, H C D V, DIY Food Channel Travel, all that stuff at that time. Yeah. That's who owned it.

[00:09:28] Dr Decks: Okay. And, uh, they chose two flip shows, . Yep. I should've called my show deck flip and I probably would've had a better chance of getting bought.

[00:09:38] Eric Goranson: Totally agree. But at the same time, man, you know, that would've been really good for you, but I think it would've also been such a boat anchor for you as well that would've held you back.

[00:09:48] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Agree. Because, because you wouldn't be doing all the stuff you're doing now.

[00:09:53] Dr Decks: Yeah, man. I mean, uh, after that I kind of delved really into, I mean, I've always been into deck board bending, [00:10:00] and that's probably my, still my passion. I love doing it. I don't, I don't do it every weekend. Like I'm not that dedicated to it.

[00:10:07] Dr Decks: But I've done thousands and thousands and thousands of feet. I've, I've burned up a hundred thousand dollars worth of products over the last 20 years, uh, mastering my craft. Yeah. And I have some really great. Art that I wanna put out to the internet. And now that I have an audience, um, you know, I'm gonna do that.

[00:10:27] Dr Decks: It's just a matter of when I, I don't know when, cuz I'm just trying to keep my business afloat and keep things going right now, you know? And, and that can be a total time suck in itself.

[00:10:38] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Let's talk about that board bending for a little bit for people in the audience out there that are going, What is Dr.

[00:10:45] Eric Goranson: Ds talking about right now? Sure. Let's, let's describe that a little bit so they understand what that

[00:10:49] Dr Decks: is. Sure. I'm known for that nationally and actually around the world because of my social media footprint. But what decor bending is, is we take [00:11:00] silicon heating blankets designed by a company called Heat Con in Seattle.

[00:11:03] Dr Decks: Mm-hmm. now heat con makes $25,000 hot bonders for Boeing airplane jets. They repair carbon fiber on Lamborghini cockpits on their cars. Uh, some of the team goes over to Italy and they, they, they do some testing on some of the newer, uh, hot cars that, that Lamborghini's making. But basically what these heat blankets do is they're designed to repair carbon fiber on Boeing Jets.

[00:11:27] Dr Decks: Yep. Okay. So we took this technology and we had the company make us a specific size that we could take a deck board and put it in a, basically a, a silicone heating blanket sandwich that there's an outside layer of, of, um, of installation and then there's a heating blankets and then there's a deck board.

[00:11:50] Dr Decks: and we heat that boarda for a certain amount of time at a certain temperature, and it becomes pliable. And then when we take it, we take it when it's still hot [00:12:00] and we put it into a sh a shape or a form that we create on the floor of our shop. And then that becomes the, the new shape of that board. So basically we take a firm straight deck board, we heat it up and turn it into a spaghetti noodle, and then we turn it into the shape we want.

[00:12:17] Dr Decks: And if we're good, we do it to perfection where it looks like it came from the factory that way. But oftentimes a not, there's always some kind of a small imperfection in the board because there's just too many, um, what ifs. Yeah. And every color has to be heated to a different temperature. Every, Yeah, every, every brand is different.

[00:12:38] Dr Decks: Um, we don't really do a lot of cap composites anymore. PVC is where I'm at. Like, that's my love. I love Aza decking. Um, I bleed azac, you know, so that's the stuff I use and, and it's a great product to do what I do with

[00:12:55] Eric Goranson: Well, and for you, you get the luxury of being familiar with one brand. You [00:13:00] know exactly what it's gonna do.

[00:13:01] Eric Goranson: You're not dealing with the six different brands that are out there and Right. This company's house brand that maybe made it this way one year, makes it that way the next or whatever.

[00:13:09] Dr Decks: Yeah, I've, I've pretty much touched 'em all and, um, I, I've kind of backed off of some of that, some of these newer, uh, boards that are coming from China, I haven't really messed with those.

[00:13:19] Dr Decks: Um, I'm kind of sticking to us made, uh, products that I really, uh, enjoy working with and, um, hey. Okay, so 15 years ago mm-hmm. , when I was doing this and I was getting it on the cover of Professional Deck Builder Magazine, ASIC's. Or it was Timber Tech back then. Yeah. Timber Tech and Azac were actually separate companies and Timber Tech had xlm, which was a pvc.

[00:13:43] Dr Decks: Yep. And they're looking at me and they're like, Nope. So we're not endorsing this said we love you, but here's the deal, . It's not you were worried about Jason, it's the 10 other people or 20 other people that are gonna try to do this. Now there's hundreds, if not [00:14:00] thousands, but back then, uh, we're worried about these other guys that are gonna come in and they're not gonna frame the deck.

[00:14:06] Dr Decks: Right. They're not gonna do this properly. They're not gonna do it the way you do it. And then we're gonna have warranty issues. And I said, I don't give a crap about your warranty. Yeah. I said, Not problem. I know. Not a problem. My, my, all my clients understand that we're totally voiding the warranty. They love a rebel.

[00:14:23] Dr Decks: They love the fact that I'm exploiting it and that I'm destroying something that, that it could potentially save, you know, somebody something in the future. But I under, I understand that I'm exploiting the warranty and that's okay. Um, yeah, because what we're creating is so much cooler than, than what we started with, you know?

[00:14:41] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's cool. I mean, I remember the first time seeing your stuff. I was like, All right, this cat's got something different going here. And I thought it was stunning just with the stuff you do with that and the railings and everything else, and Yeah. And one of the things that I really appreciated out of it, [00:15:00] That's the pretty stuff, but man, when it comes down to the framing of that deck and the protecting of that framing, Yeah, dude, you are as brutal as anybody on doing that.

[00:15:10] Eric Goranson: Right. And I love that. And I think it's worth talking about

[00:15:13] Dr Decks: for a bit. We, we both live in the Pacific Northwest and you get just as much, if not more rain than we do. Mm-hmm. and I've torn out hundreds of decks. Yeah. So I got some guy in the East that's commenting on my P post and saying, Why are you using so much waterproof membrane tape on your framing?

[00:15:31] Dr Decks: You're just working for G Tape and you're just trying to sell more product. And I'm like, Hey man, you're entitled to the way you feel. But if you see, why don't you just go back and look at some of the demo videos I've done and look at the crumbling in my hands when I grab something that's 20 years old or younger and it crumbles in my hand.

[00:15:52] Dr Decks: right? Yeah. So

[00:15:53] Eric Goranson: why put on a, a deck surface that you could get technically 30 years out of it and have framing down there that might last 15 or

[00:15:59] Dr Decks: [00:16:00] 18? Yeah. Yeah. So anytime I started doing, I, Okay, so I started using, uh, back before G tape was a thing, there's a stuff called vor. Mm-hmm. , um, back, I would say as early as 2000, I started taking VOR and cutting it into strips and putting it on top of flat blocking to protect it from getting moisture.

[00:16:23] Dr Decks: Yeah. And um, I'm not saying I started any kind of a trend or anything, but I was the first one in the United States to ever touch gta. I knew the guy that I knew, the guy at the distributor. We actually got G tape on our TV show. and I guess the people in Japan were going berserk because they thought that was the coolest thing.

[00:16:43] Dr Decks: You know, that their product, and this is like 2016, they didn't, that's when GTA came out to the states. Yeah. It'd been out in Japan for many, many years. Cuz they use it in the automotive industry and all these other places. Mm-hmm. . But it's actually owned by Mitsubishi. And um, it's funny how you can make a footprint [00:17:00] and not even realize what you're doing with it until somebody says, Yeah, these guys in Japan were really digging what you're doing with their product.

[00:17:06] Dr Decks: You know, it's like, well I was just trying to protect some framing . Yeah, right. You're

[00:17:10] Eric Goranson: just doing what you gotta do to get this right. This client that paid you good money to do the project and you're like, I'm gonna do all I can to protect their investment on

[00:17:17] Dr Decks: this. Right. Right. So I think it's a worthwhile investment, at least the Jo tops.

[00:17:21] Dr Decks: But, you know, I protect the beam tops and everything else. It's anything that water's gonna sit on and fester or if, if, uh, pine needles and we have a lot of that kind of stuff here to, That's stuff's the worst. It is. And it, it's stuck in between the deck boards and that's the first place you're framing rods.

[00:17:37] Eric Goranson: So I still have to go through my deck with, I have a really cheap battery powered plugin power washer. Yeah. Which is great for cleaning that stuff out. Sure. I wanna hit the deck. Yeah. So it's not that good, but it's perfect cuz three times a year on my back deck, I'm out there knocking that stuff down cuz it just, it packs up in between every one of the deck

[00:17:55] Dr Decks: ports.

[00:17:56] Dr Decks: Yeah. All the time. And they even make tools called the deck [00:18:00] flosser. And there's all kinds of people that have come up with ideas to, to do that. But I think your idea is probably the best. Just a light pressure washing to clear the, clear the gunk out is a great idea. That's

[00:18:11] Eric Goranson: all I do. And I, that's all that thing ever does is just cleaning off the deck with that just to keep it good cuz Yeah, you're right.

[00:18:16] Eric Goranson: And, and that stuff gets packed down in there in the northwest and if you've got that pressure treated wood, even ground contact wood, that stuff just loves to tear that up. Yeah.

[00:18:25] Dr Decks: It'll still rot, man. If it's in the wrong environment, does not matter. Um, I don't care what people say, how long it's gonna last, it's, you gotta, you gotta protect

[00:18:33] Eric Goranson: it.

[00:18:34] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and you have been doing recently, and I see more and more of it, and I don't know if it's just that I'm catching it more and more on your channel, but. Man, year two at almost three story decks that you've got going out there are pretty spectacular.

[00:18:50] Dr Decks: Thank you. Um, yeah, I've been building a lot of squares and rectangles lately and I don't, you know, personally I love doing curves, but I pitch it to everybody.

[00:18:59] Dr Decks: But there's a lot [00:19:00] of conservative clientele that really, you know, that's, that's beautiful. They think I'm gonna really ding 'em for it or something. Mm-hmm. So they just stay, We'll keep a rectangle. Well, if I'm gonna build a rectangle, I'm gonna build a really nice one, you know? Yeah. And those double deckers are really cool, cuz what we're doing is we're waterproofing the upper deck with, uh, waterproof membrane.

[00:19:19] Dr Decks: Mm-hmm. and, uh, or like a, um, actually have a, a masterclass on it of waterproof bladders. And so we put a waterproof bladder on the upper deck and then we soft at the underside so it becomes like, Like a really nice place to hang out. Uh, you know, three seasons, even four seasons if you're got

[00:19:37] Eric Goranson: heater out there, all those

[00:19:39] Dr Decks: great things.

[00:19:39] Dr Decks: Right? Absolutely. So, uh, that's kind of a cool, uh, feature and we're doing more and more of that. Instead of doing a patio cover, we're actually just building another deck above it and waterproofing it, and then they get that balcony. Now, this last one we're doing is pretty big. It's like a 16 by 20 upper mm-hmm.

[00:19:57] Dr Decks: and it's free spanning, so there's no post in the middle of the deck [00:20:00] or anything like that. You know, it's really nice and, uh, the people are really, the client is very happy right now, so we're just, you know, trying to get that one buttoned up.

[00:20:09] Eric Goranson: Here, So are you, so you're using that bladder system where basically you're putting that sheet rubber over the top of, I'm gonna oversimplify this, but mm-hmm.

[00:20:17] Eric Goranson: just so people can get an idea, is taking that sheet, flexible rubber sheet and dripping it down in between those deck boards to create a trough. So when the water comes through the deck that you can take it over towards a gutter system. Correct? Right. You

[00:20:30] Dr Decks: direct it away, you cut the, you cut e p d and pond liner into wedges, and then it's tight at the house and it, it, it has more taper towards the outside of the deck.

[00:20:40] Dr Decks: So when you install it, it get, it gives it natural drainage and you do that all within the Jo Bay. And then, uh, you overlap the layers and you put additional tape on to protect the screw head screws, excuse me, going in so that they don't leak. Uh, the whole idea is that you're [00:21:00] creating a completely, Oh, and it also protects Jo in the framing.

[00:21:04] Dr Decks: Yeah, it's perfect.

[00:21:05] Eric Goranson: Right? It's like the perfect waterproofing over the top of that.

[00:21:07] Dr Decks: Yeah. So you're protecting your frame and you're getting a nice dry space below that. And in this case, you're getting a dry space below that and on the ground. Yeah. You

[00:21:17] Eric Goranson: know, you don't have that mud mess underneath the deck where Yeah, it's come through and to the dirt up down there.

[00:21:22] Eric Goranson: You can almost see where the deck boards are sometimes on houses in the Pacific Northwest where it drops down and it almost cuts holes in the strips in the ground below. Good graphic.

[00:21:32] Dr Decks: You're explaining that very well, Eric .

[00:21:36] Eric Goranson: It's just what it is, you know, and it's, it's funny,

[00:21:39] Dr Decks: you're right. I've see, I see it all the time, man.

[00:21:42] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And so it's crazy. And what I like about this whole thing too, It does, it doesn't, you get enough angle that when the rain and the water goes, it doesn't collect up so much of that. It's not like it's super flat. So any right pine needles and stuff that get in there, it's just gonna get washed out into that gutter system.

[00:21:59] Dr Decks: Correct. Yeah. [00:22:00] I actually, Mike den, he, um, I love Mike by the way. He's a good guy. You guys don't follow him. Maybe, maybe search him out on Instagram. He, um, he did one 20 years ago and a similar, a similar style that I do and he tore the decking up cuz the decking was bad. I don't know if it was one of his rentals or something.

[00:22:18] Dr Decks: Mm-hmm. and there was hardly any sediment after years. Yeah. And, and so people, that's one of the things people always challenge me on is, hey, uh, what aren't things gonna build up? So I've physically done videos of, I put crap down in the Joyce Bay and then we've ran water in it and it floods it out. Yeah.

[00:22:38] Dr Decks: But people still have an issue with it for some reason. It's funny. Um, but I've never had a call back. Yeah, I've never had a, it's kinda waterproof bladder.

[00:22:46] Eric Goranson: No, and Mike Eton, by the way, if you guys aren't following him out there, he's kind of the old godfather of decking out there as far as the, how you connected.

[00:22:55] Eric Goranson: I mean, he's been doing this for decades, but he's the guy that Five years, [00:23:00] Yeah, literally. And Mike, I know you're probably gonna listen to this so you could laugh at us, but I used to work with him on stage, uh, in the high performance building zone down at uh, the kitchen of bass shows. So him and I used to share a stage sometimes, and so he's just such a master at that and uh, you catch him on fine home building and that kind of stuff.

[00:23:17] Eric Goranson: So

[00:23:17] Dr Decks: Good guy. Yeah. That's awesome. I, I've seen him in several trade shows and, you know, I've never, I, I feel guilty cuz I've never taken the time to, I'm usually working the show too, so it's not like I get to have a minute where I can go sit down in the audience and just listen to what he has to say. Cuz I'm sure he would teach me.

[00:23:33] Dr Decks: As a matter of fact, I have him on speed dial because I often consult him when I come up against something that I'm not a hundred on. Because it happens to all of us, right? I'm a professional deck builder. That's what I do for a living. I've done it for a long time. But to have, have a vote of confidence from somebody that you could really trust.

[00:23:49] Dr Decks: Um, he always picks up my phone calls too. Like, yeah, usually I don't ever go to voicemail with him.

[00:23:55] Eric Goranson: He's just a good guy that way. And that's, uh, but that's what I love about this industry of the, [00:24:00] of the experts that we have out there, is that, and, and I've talked this with other people here, is that the good people get along right And everybody's there to help each other.

[00:24:09] Eric Goranson: Cuz we all have questions at some point.

[00:24:12] Dr Decks: Yeah. Yeah. All of us.

[00:24:15] Eric Goranson: This. If you don't, then you might be getting cocky and, uh, putting yourself in a position where you, you should

[00:24:20] Dr Decks: be asking questions. Some, some of these younger builders, I'm looking at some of the stuff they're putting out and I'm just like, Man, they're putting screen rooms and all kinds of accessories and really lighting it upright and they're staging it perfectly.

[00:24:33] Dr Decks: I'm like, Man, I never took the time to stage anything hardly. And you know, like when it comes to competition, like we enter our decks into a national deck building competition and I'm looking at the competition this year, I'm like, Man, I don't even know if I'm gonna enter anything. Cause I don't think I have anything worthy of placing except the one I'm building right now.

[00:24:49] Dr Decks: If I finish that in time, I'll probably enter that. But, um, I don't know if it'll even place because there's just so many similar type builds that are just money, you know, [00:25:00] I'm just impressed.

[00:25:01] Eric Goranson: Completely. And that's good. I like it when you know somebody like you that's gone out there and it's been a trailblazer and you know, it's risen the, the water and bringing all the boats up too.

[00:25:10] Eric Goranson: Cuz there's other guys out there that are going, All right, I see how he's doing it. I better do my stuff better. And there's nothing wrong with it. Right.

[00:25:17] Dr Decks: We're elevating, we're elevating the game. That's for sure. I, and I'm not saying that outta conceit. No. Um, I, I'm saying it because I get dms every day with guys telling me that.

[00:25:28] Dr Decks: And I'm glad, I'm glad that, uh, I, I've talked to beginners, I talk to attorneys and lawyers, I talk to pizza makers and I talk to carpenters. You know, there's, there's a ton of people that follow and that are constantly asking me for information. nice. It's

[00:25:48] Eric Goranson: overwhelming at times. Oh, I bet. So what are you doing for deck fasteners these days of holding the, holding that azac

[00:25:54] Dr Decks: down?

[00:25:55] Dr Decks: Yeah. Um, we we're doing one of two, uh, things usually [00:26:00] we're either face screwing and cortex it mm-hmm. with a stainless steel top lock screw, which is now available to everybody by the way. Nice. Um, or we're using the fast and master fusion lock gun, which is more of a professional, uh, made for professional deck builders.

[00:26:16] Dr Decks: Um, it's a little quirky. Some guys don't like it cuz you know, a clip might slip here and there, but when you use it every day or every week, you kinda get used to those things and, and, and you get through it. But those are usually the only two. I've used other clips before. I'm not gonna mention any brands, but I've actually had some issues with the screw snapping and I've had to go back and then I had to cortex a bunch of decks anyways.

[00:26:42] Dr Decks: Yeah. Because the ends all snapped on these cuz PVC moves, man. It's gonna move, it gets hot, it gets cold, it, it grows, it shrinks. Mm-hmm. . And when it does that, If, And I, I used an impact driver to drive these screws down, and I wasn't supposed to, but I'm like, Hey man, we're [00:27:00] gonna produce too, you know? And, and after I talked to these guys, I had six decks do it, and I'm like, Mm, I'm just done with these.

[00:27:07] Dr Decks: I'm sorry. Yeah. I can't use these. So some

[00:27:10] Eric Goranson: of those screws are so thin, they're just, Yeah.

[00:27:13] Dr Decks: You know, they're just ,

[00:27:16] Eric Goranson: they're thinner than what your, your iPhone charging cord is. You know what I mean? They're just these little tiny things and Right. Even when they're stainless, they're still, there's not that much meat there, especially when you put a lot of torque on it, putting it in.

[00:27:27] Dr Decks: Yeah. Those top lock screws though, that's an absolute best way to fasten down a deck. Uh, even with the cortex, with the, with the aza, um, vintage product. Mm-hmm. , Um, you can barely see the quirks, but yeah, if you look hard enough, you can see 'em like, you know, it depends on particular your clients are,

[00:27:45] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:27:45] Eric Goranson: And yeah, well, there's, yeah. I mean, that's the thing. I, the client, depending on how they are, they can go out there and get on their hands and knee a blue tape if they want to. But yeah, there's always that guy, but really it's a deck and, uh, you know, that's so much better. I mean, think about where it [00:28:00] used to be with, with ring shaken cedar, You didn't care,

[00:28:04] Dr Decks: right?

[00:28:05] Dr Decks: Yeah. If you chalked your lines off, you're lucky. , you know, . Now there's a, I, I swear I was on, I was, uh, with a friend and he was a deck builder, and he, he subbed everything out. He didn't do any of the work himself. I don't do that. I actually am on every job, every day with my team building. And he had this guy that was just air nailing the, this deck, and he was trying to do it as fast as he could, and he was missing the Jos, He was missing, he was hitting the cracks with the, with the nail gun and splintering the sides of the decking.

[00:28:41] Dr Decks: And he wasn't even on the joist. Oh, and I looked, I looked at this guy and I looked at the owner. I'm like, Dude, you better stop him. He fired him on the spot. Yeah. Like, where did you find this guy, man? Like he, he kind of like, he was on something cuz he was going way, way too fast. . [00:29:00] And it's, it's unfortunate that people like that give us a bad name in the industry and I'm trying to change that man.

[00:29:07] Dr Decks: I mean, I wanna put out when everything I touch, I want people to look at it and go, Dang, that is, that's nice. That's better than average. That's above average. You know? That's, Dude, dude,

[00:29:18] Eric Goranson: your stuff is stunning. And I'm not just saying that cuz you're sitting here on the show. I mean, if for me to refer back to what you're doing on this deck stuff, man, it is just, it's amazing.

[00:29:29] Eric Goranson: It's just, Well, it's beautiful stuff and you could tell the care that's been put into

[00:29:32] Dr Decks: it. Yeah. I mean, every, every project that I build, it's like it's mine until I'm done with it, you know? Guys get tired of me like complaining to 'em all the time. It's like, man, I'm not in first grade, bro. But yeah, but if I don't remind you not to do that, you're gonna, I just sat there and watch you do it.

[00:29:52] Dr Decks: Exactly. So somebody's gotta be

[00:29:53] Eric Goranson: responsible for it. Your name's on the, uh, your name's on the warranty at the end, brother.

[00:29:58] Dr Decks: That's, And I can't tell [00:30:00] you even the little stuff. I have to go back in the evenings and weekends and fix, cuz none of my guys are gonna get up at, you know, six in the morning on a Saturday and go do it.

[00:30:09] Dr Decks: Nope. So it's up to me, but it is my name and it is my business. So I'll put my, I'll put it behind it, man. No

[00:30:16] Eric Goranson: question. That's why you only get one reputation out there and that's why you've been owning it, man. Thank you. Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about heli piles a little bit because Okay. Those are something that I think is really important depending on the, on the land and the grade and all that other stuff, but it's not something I'm seeing a lot of deck builders deal with, but I've dealt with 'em a lot.

[00:30:35] Eric Goranson: I know you, you deal with 'em a fair amount now. Mm-hmm. , you know, especially in situations where you've got bad soil conditions or on a hill or something like that. Let's talk about those in deck building a little bit. Cause I think it's something that at least homeowners and contractors should be known about out there.

[00:30:50] Dr Decks: Well, I, I started looking at helical piles as a viable solution to foundation or to footings when the state of Washington mandated a [00:31:00] 60 pound per square foot live load, instead of a 40 pound per square foot live load. What that did is it almost tripled the amount of concrete we had to pour just by adding that extra 20 pounds per square foot.

[00:31:12] Dr Decks: Thinking they were gonna solve all these problems cuz of all the weekend warriors that are going out and building decks that are collapsing and killing people. . Yeah. They made it harder, they made it more difficult for the professional to earn a living. Yeah. It just cost us another 50% to do our footings.

[00:31:26] Dr Decks: And when I was realizing, you know, hey man, I am pouring yards of concrete and I'm not used to, I don't short load a, a truck for three yards of concrete. We hand mix that. Yeah. So I'm, I'm bringing pallets of concrete to the job site and we're hand mixing pallets of concrete. And I was like, there's gotta be a better solution than this.

[00:31:46] Dr Decks: So I reached out to, and ironically

[00:31:48] Eric Goranson: though, you know, ironically the state of Washington didn't figure out, and being a, I'm a former Washingtonian, so I, I dealt with this for 25 years. They didn't figure out that maybe that connection from the deck to the house is the [00:32:00] number one failure point versus footings.

[00:32:01] Eric Goranson: But heck, they're gonna, they're gonna deal with footings cuz that's easier for 'em.

[00:32:05] Dr Decks: Uh, yeah. It just, it and that actually made. The deck. It made us use bigger beams. Bigger posts, bigger jo, tighter spans. Mm-hmm. , you know, it's ugly. So get this, I got something for you. I was, uh, the engineer, we speced out pressure treated glue lambs on the build I'm working on right now.

[00:32:28] Dr Decks: They're beautiful. Mm-hmm. . Um, I used to paying $30 a foot for 'em, Hadn't bought 'em in a while. Uh, pressure treated six by 12 is about 15 bucks a foot. Yep. Okay. No problem. Double, double cost. I'm good with that. Yeah. $65 a foot. I got ded for $7,500 for the beams on that deck. The beam. I almost ped. I'm like, I called her.

[00:32:52] Dr Decks: I, I said, Is this correct? She goes, Yeah, those haven't gone down at all in price. Um, how proud are these people of this product? Cause [00:33:00] holy smoke, dude,

[00:33:01] Eric Goranson: you could have had custom steel made for a lot less than that.

[00:33:03] Dr Decks: Well, I wonder, , You know what I mean? You get into wonder. Yeah. Well, so, so I decided, I got ahold of this guy Max with, uh, ma core helical piles out of Ontario, Canada.

[00:33:14] Dr Decks: Mm-hmm. . And he has a great shipping connection. So he said, Hey man, by the, by the power head, I'll send you some piles. He trained me over the phone cuz of Covid, he couldn't come across the border. Yep. He was locked down and I started setting my own piles. But what I'm, what I'm running into now is I have a problem when I'm driving the piles, I, I'm depending on the jurisdiction, some of 'em are requiring a third party witness.

[00:33:40] Dr Decks: To, to inspect my, my pressure.

[00:33:43] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Cause I need to see what that pressure load is to that, that way you know, the depth

[00:33:46] Dr Decks: I'm in, I'm, I'm actually recording all that as we, every pile I'm taking photographs of the pressure. I have a time lapse camera going the whole time. So I sent all that stuff to my engineer cuz he's old and he's, you know, [00:34:00] sick and he couldn't make it for two days cuz it took us two days to drive the piles on that job.

[00:34:05] Dr Decks: Cuz we had the overhang of the roof that we had to deal with while we were trying to dig the piles. So we had to suspend temporarily, suspend the roof. Those are the things people don't get. Like, you wanna sleep at night then don't do some of the stuff I do because it'll keep you up. No kidding. And um, and, and, and we both agreed that it was kind of ridiculous that they were calling out.

[00:34:26] Dr Decks: But then the ipec, the building inspector comes out and he is like, Yeah, where's your engineer report? I go, Well, it's at the engineer. And he is like, Well, it's not here. And was he present for this? And I'm like, no. He wasn't. And he goes, Well, he was supposed to be here. I, I don't know how I'm gonna approve this deck.

[00:34:40] Dr Decks: I was like, Well, I'll get you the engineering, I'll get you the paperwork, I'll give you the forms. And he goes, Yeah. He goes, Look, if I don't have something signed by your, by somebody stating that they approve these, then I can't pass this deck. So I'm like, Okay, well I'll do my best to give you what you're looking for, but I don't know if it's gonna [00:35:00] be enough.

[00:35:01] Dr Decks: Um, but I tell you what, I've done 10 of these, probably 15 decks with 'em now. Mm-hmm. and, um, it saves me time, money, you can build on 'em right away. Yep. As long as you hit the pressure you're looking for, you know, you're not, nothing's gonna settle.

[00:35:16] Eric Goranson: Dude, and those are so much more, so much more durable, uh, compared to just a concrete footing because those things are so tied into the ground compared to just putting a boatload of

[00:35:27] Dr Decks: concrete there.

[00:35:28] Dr Decks: Yeah, agreed. Um, you know, we have, we have a mini skid steer that we drive with it, and then we also have, uh, a bobcat that we swap the power head to. Uh, if I can get the big machine in, man, it really works well and that's what we used on this last job we're on. But the mini also, I had to actually upgrade my machine cuz the old machine I had it flipped it upside down or sideways, uh, because I hit some really hard ground ,

[00:35:55] Eric Goranson: too much torque it, knocked

[00:35:56] Dr Decks: it over.

[00:35:56] Dr Decks: And then the battery connection, uh, got hit, arced out on [00:36:00] the, on the frame and then started smoking . It was like, Oh

[00:36:04] Eric Goranson: man, oh man. That was an expensive one. And

[00:36:06] Dr Decks: then the oil, you know, uh, it was blowing, uh, was awful. Yeah. So at that point I was like, Okay, if I wanna be serious about this, I gotta get a bigger machine that'll drive the pile.

[00:36:15] Dr Decks: We got ourselves a, a nice little, um, ditch witch, uh, that, that really drives well and I haven't had any problems since then with either machine. Yeah. Um, or the power head. So it's been a, it's been a great investment for me. We've been using 'em for a couple years now.

[00:36:31] Eric Goranson: Man, it's so great. And when you've got like fill soil or anything else like that, or you're on the side of a hill where you're got this real, you do a lot of view homes.

[00:36:40] Eric Goranson: So, I mean, and a lot of these things are kind of towards the edge of a, a cliff or a fall off or whatever else you want to call it, looking down. And man, I, I'd, I'd want my deck to have as many of those as possible, those situations. If we can, if

[00:36:53] Dr Decks: we can get a, um, if we can get the machine into the space, we definitely use 'em.

[00:36:59] Dr Decks: If, if we can't, [00:37:00] then we might go to, to an alternative, uh, maybe a, um, a diamond peer or something like that. Yeah.

[00:37:07] Eric Goranson: And I think you did that, uh, diamond peer and those are just basically, Posts that are driven in Right. In a kind of a, almost like a TP into the ground. So you've got that blade out footing for that.

[00:37:19] Eric Goranson: Yeah. But using metal

[00:37:20] Dr Decks: post basically. Yeah. Using galvanized, um, thick walled, galvanized pipe to go through a footing, a pre-cast footing, uh, to a specific depth. And I think they come up to five feet long, you know? Mm-hmm. for some. And then once you load 'em is where they really start to take, uh, shape and where they don't move so much.

[00:37:40] Dr Decks: Yeah.

[00:37:40] Eric Goranson: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So what do you do in these days for railings, man? Cuz I see you have some beautiful, glowing, well lit railings on a lot of your projects. What's that? What's that material you're using because that's super cool.

[00:37:53] Dr Decks: Sure. Uh, so the company that I use mostly is called Regal Ideas.

[00:37:58] Dr Decks: Mm-hmm. , And they make different [00:38:00] ga uh, varieties of different types of railing. They make a standard aluminum picket aluminum with glass. And then the kicker that they do is this product called Crystal Rail. And Crystal Rail is a really beautiful low iron glass and has these special, uh, pods that are shaped kind of like an egg.

[00:38:20] Dr Decks: A lot of people kind of make fun of the shape, but they're designed that way, uh, for a reason so they can withstand the forces that need to be with, with stood for code. Yeah. And you lay these things out and then you, you tighten up the glass to 'em and then they have an l e d in the base and you light 'em up and it becomes this beautiful lit, uh, attraction at night.

[00:38:44] Dr Decks: Uh, I've never seen anything like it. I actually have it on my own house cuz I liked it so much. Um, there you go. It's beautiful. Every time I drive in at night I'm like, Man, that's sweet. .

[00:38:53] Eric Goranson: That is awesome. That is awesome. Cause yeah, that's, it's, it makes that whole deck just glow. I mean, I, I love lighting cuz [00:39:00] as a designer myself, Lighting makes that whole project and that stuff.

[00:39:04] Eric Goranson: I saw that and I'm like, okay, that's uh, that might have to go into my house one of these days. Yeah. Cause that's cool

[00:39:08] Dr Decks: stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. And, and the company, I love the company cuz they're really supportive. Uh, they back their product, they have a great warranty and it's really easy to install.

[00:39:19] Dr Decks: Uh, they have the homeowner and they do it yourself or in mind when and everything they've designed, uh, that they sell so nice. Sometimes it's hard to find depending on where you are geographically. So, uh, you can always contact Regal ideas directly and they'll get you in touch with somebody that can get you the product.

[00:39:37] Eric Goranson: Nice. So what are you using for tools out these days, man? I know you've got, uh, your favorites out there. Yeah. I don't wanna give you, make you give away all your trade secrets, but, uh, No, that's all good. You know, there you got some cool stuff I see. Using out there.

[00:39:51] Dr Decks: Yeah, I think, um, you know, the, the stuff we use daily, uh, like.

[00:39:56] Dr Decks: We use a a, a DeWalt 12 inch compound slide. Mir [00:40:00] saw volt. So it's a, Yep. Dual. 12 power batteries. Those, those usually last us a day, if not a little bit longer. Mm-hmm. , that's mounted to a cut hub, uh, chop shop, a chop station. Um, and on particularly right now we're running, uh, two chop saws on it. So we have the big 12 inch saw, and then we also, probably my favorite saw, it's this little seven and a quarter inch Metabo, H P T.

[00:40:25] Dr Decks: Mm-hmm. , uh, seven a quarter. Super accurate. Really great for trim cheap blades. You know, even a 40 tooth blade is like 15 bucks, you know? Dude, that's awesome. It cuts like a diamond, man. I mean, it's, it's, it's a, it's an expensive saw. Sure. But we have both, we have both of those mounted to the cut hub and then we have a separate cut hub station for our DeWalt table Saw.

[00:40:48] Dr Decks: So we have a full, we don't use a cordless table cell. We actually use a corded sock cuz of the stuff we ripped, the wet treated lumbers. Um, batteries would only last like, you know, maybe 40 feet. . [00:41:00]

[00:41:00] Eric Goranson: Yeah, no, that stuff doesn't work. I got a funny story about that. Uh, DeWalt saw though, uh, my buddy skipped Bidell.

[00:41:06] Eric Goranson: He got that thing. I was out, geez, years ago, what? Seven years ago. I was out at his place helping him put his kitchen. And that thing showed up in a white box. It hadn't even, it was the, one of the pre-production ones. Oh. And so that showed up in this white box at his house, and I helped him carry it in and unbox it.

[00:41:25] Eric Goranson: And I'm like, Okay, this is cool stuff. Yeah. So that was the first time I'd seen that, that whole package of theirs with that. And, uh, man, I was, I impressive. I was

[00:41:34] Dr Decks: impressed. Yeah. We, we always run that thing cordless too. It seems to run better cordless than it does that. There's a power adapter. You can plug it in, but, uh, man, we really like it running cordless.

[00:41:44] Dr Decks: We run both of our saws cordless. Yep. Our table saws corded. And then as far as impact drivers, we're mostly using Metabol, h pt, Triple Hammers. Uh, we really like those. And then as far as our finish guns, um, we're running dew. Metabo. And then [00:42:00] PA had just sent us a really cool cordless gun and I was shooting some YouTube videos with it today, and I was shooting into some steel and I broke the driver on it,

[00:42:10] Dr Decks: And I was so stupid. I was trying to get the gun to jam. Remember we were talking about jamming guns? Well, we shot that video today, uh, for our YouTube channel, . And then I'm like, Hey, man, it's not, it's not resetting what's going on? And I tore it apart. I'm like, Oh, man. Broke the

[00:42:24] Eric Goranson: driver. Oops. Oops. Yeah, I, I got a gun that I think is, I, I've done that too here.

[00:42:29] Eric Goranson: That, uh, I haven't quite taken apart yet, but I, I think that's exactly what I did as well. So I'm gonna

[00:42:34] Dr Decks: send it back. They, they told me, Hey, we got two year warranty on it. Send it back and we'll send you a new one. I'm like, Okay, do, I'll do a video on it. You know, that's what they want. They want me to do a video about it and then, then we're gonna do a giveaway.

[00:42:46] Dr Decks: So, Perfect. Cause it's so light. It's like a tinker toy compared to most other guns. It's so light. But it's, it's a gas, It's gas powered gas and battery powered. Okay. But it's a small battery and a, and a and a gas. The gas cartridge lasts like a [00:43:00] thousand shots or 1500 shots

[00:43:01] Eric Goranson: or something like that. Oh, wow.

[00:43:02] Eric Goranson: That's cool. Cause that's my biggest complaint about the, especially like the framers, man, those are even, even worse. The framers, you just sitting there, it's, it's like you got 25 pounds off the hand of your hand that Oh, yeah.

[00:43:13] Dr Decks: Um, we have some cordless framers, but when we, when, especially when we're framing in glue lambs, we always run a pneumatic because you just get a better punch with a pneumatic.

[00:43:22] Dr Decks: If not, we'd have to go back and drive every single nail again with a cordless uh, framer. Yeah.

[00:43:28] Eric Goranson: But that makes no

[00:43:29] Dr Decks: sense. Yeah, Not really. If the woods really wet and it's all pressure treated, then, then we can use the cordless guns. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:37] Eric Goranson: That stuff's so soft. Especially with, you know, in the Pacific Northwest here we have that, uh, pressure treated wood.

[00:43:43] Eric Goranson: It's not like some of that southern yellow pine you see everywhere else. Right. This stuff here that it is soak can wet when it shows up in most cases. Yeah. And it's heavy, it's wet and, uh, the saws hate it, but the guns love it. Right,

[00:43:57] Dr Decks: right. Exactly. [00:44:00] Yeah. You can always get good penetration on a, on a nail gun with it.

[00:44:03] Dr Decks: Absolutely.

[00:44:04] Eric Goranson: Just like bta, just like bta . So what do you see going, uh, what are some of the next, uh, things that you see out there with Daks and, and the future with these composites? Cause I know you, you talk to the manufacturers a lot out there. I'm so impressed where we've come over the last five or six years.

[00:44:21] Eric Goranson: Uh, you know, my parents, when they built their house in the Tri-cities in eastern Washington, They put in that TRX fencing product that came out and uh, that was a mistake. That stuff, um, untapped. It was the original kind of, you know, oatmeal ish kind of composite and you put that on 115 degree day and it looks like a Willy Wonka fence.

[00:44:49] Dr Decks: Yeah, it's unfortunate. Um, there was a few different brands that tried to come out with fence boards and I don't think any of 'em are still around. Like timber techs [00:45:00] went out, uh, tracks went out. There was a couple others. I don't even remember their names. I, I would actually take a few of those. I still have some stock cuz I cut it down and use it for thin shims when I'm building low decks to the ground.

[00:45:11] Dr Decks: That makes sense. Oh yeah. Like if you have all the different thicknesses, Matt, it makes it really easy to shim up a three, eight inch, a half inch, five 16, whatever, you know, whatever thickness these boards were. So I have like a little hoard of it, you know, in my bone yard that I always go to and, and we'll just hack it down into three and a half or five and a half inches of whatever we need, you know, And it works really well cuz we also buy composite shims.

[00:45:35] Dr Decks: Um, I used to use cedar shims, but they deteriorate. Yeah. So plastic shims don't, Yeah. The cedar ones kinda apart pretty quick. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I crawled under a deck once that I'd built like 10 years later and the plastic sh the, uh, cedar shms had rotten and the post was sagging. I like, well there we go.

[00:45:55] Dr Decks: That why we go, I'm sagging. So, uh, just throw some, uh, plastic ones under there and [00:46:00] we're back in business. You know, one thing

[00:46:01] Eric Goranson: I like that we're starting to see out there too is, um, and I wanna give a shout out to like Simpson strong-tie. Mm-hmm. , they've come out with some brackets and some stuff that are.

[00:46:11] Eric Goranson: Really starting to make sense as far as decorative and functional, because over the last 30 years it's just been this galvanized stuff that ain't pretty, but they've really come out with some neat stuff.

[00:46:22] Dr Decks: Outdoor, outdoor accents. It's, it's a thing. Uh, we're using more and more of it on our builds and it is, it beautifies things and the clients really like it.

[00:46:29] Dr Decks: I didn't tell these people they're getting a free upgrade on this last job, but we put that stuff, um, all over the deck and man, it, it really enhances, it makes it look nice. And, uh, people seem to love it so

[00:46:41] Eric Goranson: well. I think for you guys too, like if you're putting together some glue lambs and stuff, I mean, those big tee brackets they have are, are solid and they look like they're supposed to be there.

[00:46:51] Eric Goranson: Where before you were using these little tiny, you had to, the only thing you had were those little tiny Simpson galvanized brackets and they just looked like you were framing a [00:47:00] house. Yeah.

[00:47:00] Dr Decks: That or you're, or you're putting a massive $200 steel monsters on there. . Um, which really, that's more for commercial use than I've done it.

[00:47:11] Dr Decks: I've done it both ways, uh, depending on the budget of the deck, you know. But, um, I kind of enjoy retrofitting these instead because you can actually get everything set together and pin it all together and then go back and put these brackets on and not only does it enhance it, it meets the code. So see, that's

[00:47:28] Eric Goranson: the, that's the best of both worlds with that, which is awesome.

[00:47:31] Eric Goranson: So

[00:47:32] Dr Decks: I'm gonna be promoting those at Deck Expo, I think.

[00:47:34] Eric Goranson: Nice. Nice. Yeah, that, that's, I remember when the few years ago they started to come out with, and they kind of dipped their toe in it a little bit, and then over the last number of years, they've just kind of exploded that line.

[00:47:45] Dr Decks: I told 'em, Hey man, you should, uh, make your Joyce Hangers this color too, right?

[00:47:50] Dr Decks: Heck yeah. I've actually painted 'em all black before, but that was a lot of. That's a lot of work. It is.

[00:47:58] Eric Goranson: That's a lot of work. Well, what [00:48:00] else are you doing out there, man? I mean, I'm, I'm noticing one thing that I noticed that you really pay attention to and, and I wanna just give you a shout on this. I love your connections from that deck to the house.

[00:48:12] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I mean, you and Mike Girton both have that down so well of getting, and it's such an important connection of getting that stuff tied in, you know, taped up, right? Mm-hmm. , you know, all the right flashing in there, all those details and that on your homes that you do, man, you gotta do a lot of surgery sometimes on siding, but it sure looks good when it's all

[00:48:34] Dr Decks: done.

[00:48:34] Dr Decks: Yeah, we do. Um, a lot of guys don't want to touch the siding of the house. They just wanna put their deck to the house and they don't wanna see what's behind there. And thank God we tore all the siding off because the upper deck can lever. Through the house and there was no support post, so I had to cut all that back flush and then I had to lay it out so that I was attaching to the, the blocks that are in between the jo that we cut [00:49:00] back so that we made sure we had the proper attachment so that we had something that wasn't gonna pull away from the house.

[00:49:08] Dr Decks: Yeah. It was kind of a, kind of a tricky, sticky situation.

[00:49:12] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Those homes, like my house, I had this little tiny Juliet deck off my master when I bought the house. It was like this little three foot by five foot thing, or three foot by six foot off a, a six foot slider that you could almost just barely put two plastic launchers out on, bought the house.

[00:49:28] Eric Goranson: I kinda looked at the window and I was, I knew it was gonna come down anyway, but I stood out on it and I went uhoh. I could see the metal railing starting to pull away as I stepped back in the door and went, Yeah, we're not going back out on that again. Wow. Sure enough, it was. , there was just cedar two by tens.

[00:49:46] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm. hanging out there that were coming out just can lever and they should have been replaced. There was drywall screws holding all the, I mean, it was just, Oh, yeah. You could tell it'd been 15 handymen that had work on that thing.

[00:49:59] Dr Decks: Yeah. I don't think [00:50:00] people realize the difference between a structural screw and just anything you can buy at Home Depot.

[00:50:06] Dr Decks: You know, there, there's so much that you need to know about construction. If you're gonna build professionally for, for other people. Like you're held to a higher standard than a, and most people do, but the things I tear apart, it never ceases to amaze me what I see, uh, in a demo. It's just unbelievable.

[00:50:27] Dr Decks: Yeah. What the type of construction is just, there's no way a pro could have done this because they'd be fired. or the user license?

[00:50:36] Eric Goranson: Well, you know, you see the mixture of the, of the, the black dry wall screws that are rusty. You see the yellow. Deck screws that they used to be called back in the day that mm-hmm.

[00:50:46] Eric Goranson: that the gold, Yeah, the gold ones that you can snap off in a, in a heartbeat. Trying to put 'em into some dry wood and the, none of those guys are structural out there. You need to get into something that's rated. I love using Simpson Fasts [00:51:00] with Simpson Hangers, for instance. Yeah. I try to match those up

[00:51:03] Dr Decks: pretty well.

[00:51:04] Dr Decks: Those guys in Faster Master are the two that we use, um, mainly cuz they're both structural, they're both rated, they're both accepted by most building code officials and jurisdictions. And, um, I'm, and if something works, you don't really try to change it too much except for keeping up with technology and things like that.

[00:51:23] Dr Decks: But, uh, yeah, I love Simpson products. Um, I love all the brackets, like you said, and then Fast and Master. I love most their fascinating products and, and some of their structural stuff as well.

[00:51:35] Eric Goranson: Nice, Nice. Are you using the stiblo levels and stuff? Is that what you're using out there? See, you see a lot of yellow in your videos,

[00:51:42] Dr Decks: so, Yep.

[00:51:43] Dr Decks: I've been to, I've been to the plant in Germany. Uh, stab invited us out to take a look and learn all about their product. And I gotta tell you, man, there is nobody else on the market that's making a level like those guys do. And they showed us the competition and they [00:52:00] dissected every single, Of course they do.

[00:52:02] Dr Decks: You know, who wouldn't if I, I would do the same thing. When you're good, you're good, right? But that's why I do this to be a challenge, man, cuz people think I'm being, um, abusive to my tools and some guys get offended, but I'm actually trying to throw that level as far as I can and I want to go off the other side if, you know, I kinda know that the limitation and I try not to do it, but if it does, it's okay.

[00:52:25] Dr Decks: Cuz you can pick that thing back up and it'll still be level. If you drop an empire level and I've had one and if you drop it, you're done. Go buy another one.

[00:52:35] Eric Goranson: Sorry, Milwaukee, that those, if you drop, they're

[00:52:38] Dr Decks: done's. It's just a, a plastic insert that that's like, uh, has a kind of a, a lever inside of it that holds the, the, the vial level.

[00:52:47] Dr Decks: But once you, once you drop it too much, or if it vibrates too much, then the, those that the cam moves inside the level and then it's no longer a level. It's just a straight edge. Yeah.

[00:52:58] Eric Goranson: And that's crazy. I love when you do [00:53:00] your challenge and you're sliding that thing across your, your framing and you see it go 30 feet down there.

[00:53:05] Eric Goranson: Um, Yeah. There is no way to fake that level of quality. It's either slides or it doesn't, I don't,

[00:53:12] Dr Decks: Yeah. I've gotta like 50 feet. I've thrown those things up to 50 feet, um, on a slide and, and yeah, you don't always get it right on the first one, but, you know, it's a, For me, it's a thing, so I have to do it on every job now.

[00:53:24] Dr Decks: Yeah. Every time I have the opportu.

[00:53:26] Eric Goranson: Dude. And that's, and that's the beauty of that is, and that's, that's care of the construction. Yeah. And for the people out there listening, a two by 12 is not consistent with the one next to it. It's kind of close, but you can be off on those dimensions. Oh, big time. And you have to go in and set each and every one of those things to make it work.

[00:53:47] Eric Goranson: And it's either right or it's not.

[00:53:51] Dr Decks: Yeah. You need to grade your framing before you install it to thickness so that you know that you're not gonna have a roller coaster surface when you're done. [00:54:00]

[00:54:00] Eric Goranson: And that's one thing with the composites, is they're flexible enough that you can start to

[00:54:05] Dr Decks: see that in there.

[00:54:06] Dr Decks: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Lay down on your deck and look at it, and you're like, Ooh, . I mean, we, we take precaution and care and every time I come up a ladder or a staircase and I look at the deck and I can still see a hump here or a dip there. You know, it, we just minimize it. We don't eliminate it unless we get into aluminum framing.

[00:54:25] Dr Decks: Like you asked me a question earlier, what, what do I see coming in the future? Yeah, it's alternate metals framing, but I kind of skip the steel train and I'm waiting for the aluminums to come. I think, I think aluminum framing is gonna be one of the biggest booms in, in our industry, and it's gonna take another five to 10 years for it to really start to roll out.

[00:54:47] Dr Decks: And that's where I'm going, that's where I'm putting my, um, efforts and, and in trying to pick a brand or a couple brands that I'd like to use, uh, because it will give you a laser [00:55:00] flat deck. As a matter of fact, I just installed one called, with a company called Outdoor. Mm-hmm. , uh, where the gentleman that owns a company in Australia flew over here.

[00:55:09] Dr Decks: Really? He stayed with, he stayed with me in my house and he shipped over a complete deck section. For this above like a pedestal system deck. Mm-hmm. that we had to do. And we planned it out like months in advance. And he finally came over here in April and we actually installed it together. And it was a lot of work.

[00:55:27] Dr Decks: Cause there was many challenges, uh, that he didn't realize when, you know, you can only do so much over, uh, a Skype, you know? Correct. But it was pretty amazing when it was done and, and it turned out really nice.

[00:55:41] Eric Goranson: Well, you think about that, if you're putting down a, a deck product that's got a long warranty, you've got aluminum in there that's very consistent and is virtually weatherproof that, that's a solid system right there.

[00:55:54] Eric Goranson: You can put a deck on it and get decades out of that without having to worry about, And [00:56:00] for you, you're not having to put all the wrap on it. You're not having to do all the waterproofing on the deck board, on the, on the joist and stuff. So it's probably gonna go quicker in the long run.

[00:56:08] Dr Decks: Less he had, well interlocking, he had an interlocking clip system too that we're able to use.

[00:56:14] Dr Decks: So it locked all the boards down, and then we only had to fasten like every five boards. Yeah, that's crazy. It was cool. And it doesn't move. No. Yeah, it's not going to, No, there's no spring. And then for Cortex driller, fasta master actually makes a cortex, a fastener that can go into the aluminum and you can cortex it and it locks it down, man.

[00:56:38] Dr Decks: So we pinned all the ends on that deck so it wouldn't move around. Wow. Yeah, dude, That, that is

[00:56:44] Eric Goranson: awesome. Okay. You got me looking at that Now, that's, that's cool stuff. And I think that's, You're right. And, and you're not gonna see the, the, the challenges we see with lumber prices and availability and, you know, aluminums, aluminum, they can knock that [00:57:00] stuff

[00:57:00] Dr Decks: out.

[00:57:01] Dr Decks: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think mostly like what this guy was, his issue is, uh, where to import it from, where to import it to. And then how to get it to the states and warehousing and all that.

[00:57:13] Eric Goranson: But you're like Port Tacoma . Exactly.

[00:57:17] Dr Decks: We talked about it. But, um, he's a busy guy, you know, he's got a $30 million company right now, and he's trying to grow that to a hundred and he's gonna do it, uh, with this product.

[00:57:28] Dr Decks: I can tell you right now, it's pretty, he's actually developing a framing system for us in the states because we're so into our nominal dimensional two by eight, but we can use a two by eight and span at 14 feet, you know, instead of Yeah. Uh, eight feet or nine feet. Yeah. Had the

[00:57:48] Eric Goranson: thought of that. Yeah. You get totally different spans out of this,

[00:57:52] Dr Decks: and it's flat.

[00:57:54] Dr Decks: Wow. Yeah. All right, man. That's cool. And you can build thin with it. [00:58:00] Yeah. Their, their system, they have all these varying widths, so you can build a two and a half inch thick deck.

[00:58:06] Eric Goranson: How trick in a contemporary house could you imagine doing that? Where it's

[00:58:10] Dr Decks: just Yeah. Laser thin. That would be laser thin. Like for, for those, uh, rooftop, those flat rooftop areas that mm-hmm.

[00:58:17] Dr Decks: uh, people have rubber or you know, whatever brains on him. Yeah. Pop mop on 'em, whatever. Yeah. This, this is a cool, That's what, that's why we had to use his system. Cause I couldn't do a traditional, If I would've done a wood frame, it'd probably already be falling apart by now. Yeah. So

[00:58:33] Eric Goranson: good. Good call. Good call.

[00:58:35] Eric Goranson: Yeah man.

[00:58:36] Dr Decks: So

[00:58:36] Eric Goranson: that is cool stuff. You heard to hear first guys. That's the, that's the trend from Dr. Dax. That's,

[00:58:41] Dr Decks: that's my trend. See, see when you, when you cut with steel, every cut you make has to be protected. If you let the shavings go down onto your nice patio or cement, it's gonna rust. Okay? So you gotta cut off site almost, or, or somewhere contained and um, then you blow

[00:58:58] Eric Goranson: that off.

[00:58:59] Eric Goranson: Cause you [00:59:00] can't have any of those sha those.

[00:59:02] Dr Decks: Aluminum. I mean, it might be silver specs, but it's not gonna rust. Yeah. Um, and then pergolas, uh, like, uh, Timber Tech just acquired structure, which is an aluminum, um, louvered roof. Yeah. So I think louvered roofs and patio covers are gonna be a, a, another hot item, uh, coming up up and coming for the, for the future.

[00:59:25] Dr Decks: Um,

[00:59:26] Eric Goranson: I didn't see that those guys had had grabbed them. That's awesome because I did. I've looked into that stuff. It's cool. I got a buddy, really one of my really good friends that lives down the street. We've been kinda looking at that for his, he wants to do a covered area over his deck has out in his backyard is full son and his bakes out there.

[00:59:42] Eric Goranson: And so we were wanting to make a kind of outdoor kitchen area for him that was gonna be out in the middle of his yard. And it would look like that's the

[00:59:47] Dr Decks: only thing. They're, they're not cheap. Um, it's a premium investment. I can do a standard acrylic and aluminum patio cover for half the cost of a, of a, a structure.

[00:59:57] Dr Decks: Yeah. So that's usually what I end up [01:00:00] doing cuz people don't wanna spend the extra money unless they really want that perilla,

[01:00:04] Eric Goranson: you know? Yeah. But

[01:00:06] Dr Decks: they are sexy. Cool. I think outdoor kitchens and, and, and just, just space, like covered space that you can hang out under, but most people don't realize what they're spending.

[01:00:16] Dr Decks: Um, when I go on these estimates, people don't realize how expensive that's gonna be. You want a 20 by 20 and closed or covered area with a deck, you know, you're spending a hundred plus thousand dollars and people don't realize they're thinking it's 20 grand and the you're not buying the

[01:00:34] Eric Goranson: materials for half.

[01:00:36] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Materials are twice that. Three times that. So, yeah.

[01:00:40] Dr Decks: So, um, that's always a, a, a rude awakening for a lot of people is just price. Yeah. I just kicked out a bid for 300 grand for a guy just to do a resurface. It was 3000 square feet. Yeah. All rail, all new bladders. I mean, it was a lot. But I doubt oversee the, the day, the light of [01:01:00] day on that one.

[01:01:00] Dr Decks: You know, I, I didn't expect to, but I wasn't gonna, just cuz it's big doesn't mean I charge less. No,

[01:01:06] Eric Goranson: no. You know, it's still labor is labor materials or materials when it comes down to it. I mean, you're not having to, to move off the site, but these days it's not like you're sitting there leaving, you know, your tools on site for a week either, you know, you're, you're still packing up either way.

[01:01:20] Eric Goranson: So it's just one big job. Yep. And it's not like you don't have a waiting list out there either,

[01:01:26] Dr Decks: right? We're booked out a year right now. Yeah. The only problem I have is permitting. Oh. It's a nightmare.

[01:01:34] Eric Goranson: They have not got that straight yet. I mean, that's, it's, I don't think they're going to anytime soon. I don't care where you're located.

[01:01:41] Eric Goranson: It's pretty rare to get, you know, it's, it's fester famine, you know, when you think, okay, it's slowing down out there. The new home builders are, are gonna not take up as much time, so we'll be able to get remodel stuff. That's when the building department lays off the people in the building department. And then you just have less people you're working with.

[01:01:58] Eric Goranson: There's never like a, a [01:02:00] sweet spot there.

[01:02:01] Dr Decks: No, it's unfortunate. It's, it's um, just struggling with that right now.

[01:02:07] Eric Goranson: I bet. I bet. Well, brother, we are running out of time. We have blasted through an hour so quickly. Jason, what's the best way for people to track you down out there, man? If someone's gonna track you down social media, website, where do they find you?

[01:02:21] Dr Decks: Well, uh, Instagram probably number one. That's the my most followed, uh, site. It's Dr. D, Dr d e c k s. You can go to our YouTube channel under the same handle. And, um, my website is also, if you just Google Dr. Decks, you cannot miss me. , we, we will pop up, um, and dr ds.com. That's my webpage. Um, I haven't updated it recently.

[01:02:46] Dr Decks: If you want the most up to date, probably gonna go to Instagram, but, um, our YouTube channel is really unique. Uh, my son actually cuts the videos and edits and uploads everything. We spend a lot of money every month trying to promote [01:03:00] that and it's all free to you. Um, alls I ask is that you click

[01:03:03] Eric Goranson: subscribe.

[01:03:04] Eric Goranson: That's simple. That's simple. Yeah. Click subscribe on that one, guys. And that's where you get your masterclass on this stuff. Yes, sir. All right, brother. Thanks for coming on today, man. I really appreciate it, and we're gonna do this

[01:03:16] Dr Decks: again. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

[01:03:18] Eric Goranson: All right. I'm Eric G and you've been listening to Around the House