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Jen Oliver: Welcome to the So That's
Why podcast where we unpack the

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science behind everyday questions.

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I'm Jen.

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Chris Smith: I'm Chris.

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Matt Edmundson: And I'm Matt.

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Jen Oliver: So today's question is
one that captures a lot of people

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off guard because most of us assumed
we'd left this behind in our teens.

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Why do adults still get acne?

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Matt Edmundson: Now we're talking
about acne because apparently the

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universe has decided that mortgages
back pain and reading glasses are just

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not enough of a package deal for us.

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Chris Smith: And the frustrating thing
is that when it does reappear, there's

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often a sense of shame around it.

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Like it shouldn't still be happening.

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Surely, which can get in the way of
people actually treating it effectively.

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Jen Oliver: Yeah.

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So today we are gonna answer
why adult acne is so common.

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What's happening under the skin when
a breakout appears, and what the

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evidence actually says works for
treating it when you are no longer 16.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

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And I'm gonna be straight with you.

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I assume this was just a hormone thing.

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And we'd be done in this episode
in about four minutes time.

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But a spoiler alert, apparently it's not
just a hormone thing and the episode will

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be slightly longer than four minutes.

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Chris Smith: Well, hormones are
certainly evolved, but you are right.

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There's a lot more to
it than just hormones.

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Jen Oliver: But before we dig into
the adult specific picture, it's worth

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us being clear, isn't it, about what
acne actually is, because most people

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think of it as just spots without.

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Understanding what's driving them.

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Chris Smith: Yeah, so acne or acne
vulgaris to give its full name

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is an inflammatory condition that
affects the hair follicles and

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their attached sebaceous clans.

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These are the oil glands in your skin.

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So it's not a surface issue.

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It starts inside that hair follicle.

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Jen Oliver: And it's
quite complex, isn't it?

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Would you believe four specific
processors all have to align

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for a breakout to develop?

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So the first is excess seran production,
so your oil glands over overproduce

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under the influence of androgens,
which are hormones like testosterone

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that both men and women have.

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Chris Smith: Yep.

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And the second is what we would
consider to be a. Abnormal skin

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cell shedding inside that follicle.

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So our skin does shed naturally, uh,
but something's going wrong here.

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And crucially, those cells we're
trying to, shed become more sticky

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and rather than clearing out, normally
they accumulate and block the pore.

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Matt Edmundson: So the follicle
gets blocked from the inside, not

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the outside, which would explain
why just washing your face, uh.

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It doesn't really sort of fix it.

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Jen Oliver: Exactly.

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And once that blockage forms,
which it's called a comedone, the

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third factor kicks in, and that's a
bacterium called cutie bacteria acnes.

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It's probably not cute.

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Matt Edmundson: I was gonna
say it's cutie bacteria,

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Jen Oliver: probably the
bane of most people's lives.

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But anyway, or C acnes for sure.

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And that grows rapidly in that oxygen
pore oily environment of the pore.

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Chris Smith: Um, and as if that
wasn't enough, there's a fourth

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piece, which is your immune system
responded to that blockage and to

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the bacteria with inflammation.

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And that inflammatory response is what
creates the redness, the swelling,

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and the pain of that visible spot.

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Matt Edmundson: So like you say, four
separate things going wrong at once.

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Like the stars have aligned.

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I guess it's like a project, isn't it?

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Without a project manager, everyone's
doing their own thing and the outcome

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just seems to be mayhem and chaos.

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Jen Oliver: Which it is actually, that's
actually a pretty good summary of it.

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And the reason it's so common.

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So studies suggest that up to 50% of
women in their twenties experience

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acne with significant numbers climbing
into their thirties and forties.

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Chris Smith: Now something
for our fact fans.

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Jen Oliver: You mean
you're gonna bust a myth?

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Matt Edmundson: Oh, here he
comes, captain MythBuster again.

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Chris Smith: Absolutely.

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So I mentioned earlier about
sticky dead cells blocking

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the pores, but did you know.

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The concept of pores, opening
and closing is one of the

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biggest myths in skin science, or
should I say skincare marketing.

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So pores do not open and close what
I know, they aren't like little

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trap doors with muscles that make
them open and close on demand.

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Matt Edmundson: Are you sure?

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So all the times like I've seen
skincare products or treatments claim

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to open pores or said to myself that
even exercise may be opens, pores.

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It's just not true.

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So how come then if
that is true, Mr. Chris?

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And I'm not denying that that is true.

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Uh, how come pores are sometimes
more visible than other times?

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Um, I thought that's because
they were sometimes more open.

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Jen Oliver: So now it's because instead of
opening and closing, they dilate contract.

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So the dilated pores.

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Are more visible.

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Chris Smith: Exactly that.

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And dilated pores can be
caused by them being clogged.

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Uh, being inflamed or by a loss of
skin elasticity or just through age.

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Matt Edmundson: And so cleaner and
clearer pores look tighter then.

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Right.

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It doesn't just mean that
they're somehow slammed shut.

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Chris Smith: Exactly.

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That.

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So we want pores to contract
and be tight and clean.

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Um, 'cause Yeah.

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Looks far better.

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Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.

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Chris Smith: I do apologize.

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I kind of took us off on a
bit of a, a tangent there

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Matt Edmundson: that's unlike you Chris.

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Chris Smith: I, I know
I'm, yeah, apologies.

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Um, so we were talking about, I
think we were talking about the four

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processes that contribute to acne.

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So there was excess sebum
production, uh, the skin not shedding

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properly and clogging those pores.

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Um, the commo formation, as Jen mentioned,
and then the skin's inflammatory response.

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The important thing to
point out here is that.

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Those processes are identical
in teenagers or adults.

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So the difference is what triggers
them in adult life, because the driving

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forces shift considerably beyond puberty.

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Jen Oliver: So the biggest adult
specific trigger is changes in hormones.

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And even though changes in hormones are
often behind teenage acne in adults,

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it's the irregular shifts that cause
the problems, particularly the drops

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and the spikes, rather than like the
steady high that's seen in puberty.

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Chris Smith: Yeah.

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And for women, um, the most
common pattern is cyclical.

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Acne.

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So it's tied to the menstrual cycle.

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So specifically the days before
menstruation when progesterone

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falls, but androgen activity, those
sex hormones such as testosterone,

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they remain relatively elevated,

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Jen Oliver: and that shift alone can
boost the sebum and production and cause

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the skin cells in the follicle to shed
faster, which is why so many women see

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breakouts popping up in the same place
at roughly the same point in their cycle.

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Matt Edmundson: And by same place you mean
specifically the jawline and lower face?

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Chris Smith: Yeah.

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Almost always because, um, that pattern
is so, in fact, that pattern is so

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consistently recognized that persistent
lower face acne in adult women is

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now treated as a hormonal flag in
dermatology, not just a skin issue.

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Jen Oliver: And it's just
delightful being a woman.

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Perimenopause is another window where.

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It becomes significant 'cause
estrogen levels drop, but the androgen

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activity that still remains high.

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And so that shifts the hormonal
balance in a way that reactivates

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those sebaceous gland activity.

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Um, and that might have been, your
skin might have been clear for years.

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Matt Edmundson: So you spend your twenties
then dealing with hormonal acne, your

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thirties finally getting on top of it.

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And then perimenopause seemed
to say, why not so fast?

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Jen Oliver: Yeah,

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Chris Smith: I know.

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It's just not fair, is it?

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Let's be honest.

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Yeah, no, I agree.

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It genuinely is quite common.

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Um, and then the stress on top of
everything else, which operates through

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a completely separate pathway, but is
a massive contributor to adult acne.

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Jen Oliver: Yeah, cortisol, which
is your primary stress hormone, and

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that's getting a lot of press lately,
that directly stimulates the sebaceous

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glands to increase sebum production.

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But research has shown that by itself,
it drives inflammation in the skin.

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So the effect is actually two pronged.

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Chris Smith: Yeah, and I suppose you
can think of it of less of a case of,

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um, stress creating acne from nothing.

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A more like stress lowering the threshold
at which everything that was already

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kind of quietly ticking over tips
over the edge into a full on breakout.

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Jen Oliver: It's just great.

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But research, it's also shown that
psychological stress ramps up the

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pro-inflammatory cytokine activity in
the skin, even without changes in sebum.

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So it's not just about oiliness,
it's how your immune system reacts,

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Matt Edmundson: Which probably
explains the timing then, doesn't it?

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The spot that appears the morning
before something important

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has been in the pipeline, uh,
longer than we seem to think.

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Jen Oliver: Mm-hmm.

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Chris Smith: Absolutely.

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And then we've got diet.

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So diet is the third major
adult driver and the mechanism

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here runs through blood sugar.

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So high glycemic foods being
white bread, sugary drinks.

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Refined carbohydrates.

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You know, the things we all kinda like.

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They cause this rapid insulin spike, which
in turn elevates a hormone called IGF one.

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Matt Edmundson: IGF one.

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Sounds like mission impossible

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Jen Oliver: for us.

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It does.

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It does.

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It's definitely a weapon
of the MythBuster.

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Matt Edmundson: Done, should pun done.

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Done.

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10.

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Jen Oliver: So I'll help
you out here, Chris.

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IGF one is insulin growth factor one, and
that directly stimulates the sebaceous

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glands and speeds up the abnormal shedding
of the cells in the skin follicle.

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Um.

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There was a review in 2023 and they
found a consistent link between

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high glycemic diets and acne
severity, especially in adult women.

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Chris Smith: Yeah.

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And um, dairy is worth mention here too,
so the association is less consistent

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across studies, but some research
points to the insulin and growth

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factor content of milk as a potential
contributor for certain individuals.

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Matt Edmundson: So a, a meal deal then
with your white bread, your sugary drink.

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A yogurt is not just, it seems a
nutritional compromise, but also

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potentially having a conversation
with your sebaceous glands that

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you didn't really ask it to have.

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Jen Oliver: Yep.

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And that's, we're not even
counting what you put on your skin.

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So that's just what you
put in you, in your body.

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Um, acne cosmetica is
actually a real thing.

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So breakouts that are triggered or
worsened by skincare and makeup,

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and that's things like heavy creams,
sun, sun, cream formulas, and certain

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foundations can actually block the
follicles and lead to comedones.

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Chris Smith: Yeah.

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And of course that could be particularly
frustrating because people often

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reach for more skincare in response
to acne without checking whether

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the products they're actually using
are already part of the problem.

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Jen Oliver: Mm-hmm.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

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So who does this actually affect then?

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Um, and does it look the
same across different people?

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Jen Oliver: So it's
definitely not uniform.

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There was a large epidemiological
study across multiple countries,

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and they found that adult acne
affects women at a significantly

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higher rate than men overall.

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Um, and adult onset acne,
meaning like new breakouts that

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started after the age of 25.

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With no teenage history is considerably
more common in women than in men.

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Great news for us women

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Chris Smith: I know, and in by contrast,
when it comes to men, men are more likely

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to have persistent acne that's continue
from adolescents without fully clearing.

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So it's driven by constantly higher
androgen levels, and it tends to persist

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as more severe when it does persist.

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Matt Edmundson: So men, fewer acne
episodes, but going for maximum

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impact when they do occur seems to
be the, seems to be the consensus.

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Jen Oliver: Yeah.

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Essentially, yes.

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And for women, it's just another joy for
women, there's a specific condition that

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amplifies that pattern significantly,
and that's polycystic ovary syndrome,

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which is actually quite common, POS.

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And that involves chronically
elevated androgen levels that

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drive acne, that's persistent.

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It's often more cystic, and it
frequently doesn't really respond

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to like your standard topical
treatments without addressing.

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The hormonal picture underneath.

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Chris Smith: Yeah.

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And that's so important because you
know, if you are experiencing a series

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of breakouts that don't shift even after
several months of consistent treatment,

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it's well worth the conversation with
your doctor to investigate whether

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something systemic is going on.

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Matt Edmundson: So what about the idea
then that acne means your skin is dirty?

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'cause I, this one.

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It still makes a rounds for me.

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Jen Oliver: I feel like, I feel
like Captain MythBuster should join

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in now, but I'll be a sidekick.

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We need a name for that, but it's,

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Matt Edmundson: he could be Madam

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Jen Oliver: MythBuster.

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Be Madam MythBuster

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doesn't sound quite as heroic,

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Chris Smith: does it?

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Pen like an alternate Penfold,

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the younger viewers?

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No idea.

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No

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Matt Edmundson: idea
what we're talking about.

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Jen Oliver: Well actually your
skin being that dirty, that's

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completely without biological basis.

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So the four processes we described
are all happening inside the follicle,

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the excess oil, the sticky cells, the
bacteria, the immune response, none

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of which are driven by surface dirt.

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Chris Smith: Absolutely right.

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And in fact, over washing
and harsh scrubbing of the

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skin strips away its barrier.

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It also increases inflammation, um,
and it can worsen the very condition

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that people are trying to treat.

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So the evidence consistently
points to gentle kind of twice

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daily cleansing as the best route.

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Matt Edmundson: Okay, so the person
in scrubbing their face three or

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four times a day, which is what
I did when I was a teenager.

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Um.

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They're making their skin worse, and if
they are, they're not imagining it, right?

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Jen Oliver: No, they're generally
make, genuinely making it harder

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for their skin to regulate itself.

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So once the skin barrier is
compromised by like the excessive

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washing, the inflammatory response
can become more pronounced, not less.

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Chris Smith: That's right.

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So if we look at beyond standard skincare,
what does treatment actually look like?

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Um, for mild to moderate adult acne,
there are three over the counter

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actives with genuinely solid, uh,
evidence behind them aren't there?

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Jen Oliver: Yeah.

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So there's benzoyl peroxide
and that targets that.

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C Acnes, we talked about
targets that The cutie one.

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The cutie one, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Not so cute.

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In this state, in this case, the
cutie one, it targets that directly

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and has an anti-inflammatory action.

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And then salicylic acid, you often see
that in skincare products that dissolves

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the bonds between the abnormal sticky
skin cells in the follicle, helping to

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break down the blockage and clear it.

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And then there's also, um, a
retinoid now available without

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prescription in many countries.

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And that normalizes follicle
cell turnover at the source

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Matt Edmundson: and, okay.

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That's all very helpful.

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But is there any particular
order or priority there, or is

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it just pick one and see Chris?

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Chris Smith: Well, I'd say as a general
rule, starting with one at a time is

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really important because introducing
multiple active simultaneously makes

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it impossible to know which is working.

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And the combination can cause
significant irritation to already very

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inflamed skin, especially if you've
got a kind of sensitive skin type.

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Jen Oliver: And I think the single most
important thing to understand about

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topical treatments is the timeline.

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So most of them require a minimum of about
six to eight weeks for any noticeable

316
00:14:58,730 --> 00:15:03,590
improvement, and three months really
to properly evaluate its effectiveness.

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00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,070
Matt Edmundson: Six to
eight weeks, which is.

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Roughly four times longer than I.
Most people, including me, give

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anything before declaring this thing
doesn't work in ordering three new

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00:15:13,415 --> 00:15:15,395
products at midnight on Amazon, right?

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Jen Oliver: Yeah.

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We've all been there.

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Chris Smith: Uh, totally.

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And of course that, I mean, that is the
single biggest reason, isn't it, that,

325
00:15:20,165 --> 00:15:23,405
uh, treatments get abandoned because
before they've had a chance to work,

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people are kind of moving on already.

327
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And the thing to remember here is
there are multiple things at play,

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including calming your own skin, your
skin's own inflammatory responses.

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So.

330
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Treatments are never gonna be a quick fix.

331
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Um, it's really important to keep in
mind though, that for those who have

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stuck with it and tried products for
long periods of time, you know the

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00:15:41,765 --> 00:15:43,325
the time they're recommended for.

334
00:15:43,835 --> 00:15:47,645
If you're not seeing successful changes,
then prescription options are available

335
00:15:47,705 --> 00:15:49,065
and it may be time to talk to your doctor.

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00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:53,300
Jen Oliver: Yeah, in some prescriptions
they include like stronger topical

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00:15:53,300 --> 00:16:00,020
retinoids or antibiotic combinations to
reduce bacterial resistance and systemic

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00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:04,460
treatments like certain birth control
pills that try to address the issue added

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00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:07,340
source rather than just on the surface.

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00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:12,380
Matt Edmundson: Okay, so when,
so when should uh, someone stop

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00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:15,205
managing this themselves and actually
search out, say a dermatologist?

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00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:20,450
Chris Smith: So I think if that acne
is leaving, um, scarring or dark

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00:16:20,450 --> 00:16:26,360
marks, which is technically post, um,
inflammatory hyperpigmentation, that's

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00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,220
a reason to escalate rather than weight.

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00:16:28,370 --> 00:16:31,790
And the same applies if consistent,
like over the counter product use

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00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:34,240
for two to three months hasn't
made a dent in the problem at all.

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00:16:35,285 --> 00:16:38,555
Jen Oliver: And actually as well don't
underestimate the psychological impact.

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So research has shown that acne in
adults significantly affects people's

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00:16:43,445 --> 00:16:45,635
quality of life, their self-esteem.

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00:16:46,085 --> 00:16:50,735
And you know, that alone is a legitimate
reason to seek proper support and not just

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00:16:50,735 --> 00:16:52,505
to push so through something on your own.

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00:16:52,625 --> 00:16:53,555
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

353
00:16:53,885 --> 00:16:58,385
And something here that strikes me having
worked through all of this is acne.

354
00:16:58,715 --> 00:17:01,805
I guess it doesn't feel like
a, a skin condition as such.

355
00:17:01,805 --> 00:17:04,205
Once you understand it, it's
more like a skin symptom.

356
00:17:04,550 --> 00:17:06,320
Of things happening elsewhere.

357
00:17:06,530 --> 00:17:06,590
Jen Oliver: Mm.

358
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,510
Chris Smith: That's actually
a really useful framing.

359
00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:09,290
Matt Edmundson: Thanks, Chris.

360
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:10,895
Chris Smith: Um, I shouldn't
sound surprised by the way.

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00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:13,415
Jen Oliver: Well done Matt.

362
00:17:13,855 --> 00:17:14,015
Chris Smith: Absolutely.

363
00:17:14,195 --> 00:17:14,775
Pat on the back.

364
00:17:14,775 --> 00:17:14,785
Yeah.

365
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:16,430
And that point for a Tuesday.

366
00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:21,260
Um, but yeah, the skin
is a visible output.

367
00:17:21,260 --> 00:17:24,020
The visible output, but the
inputs, the hormones, the

368
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:25,700
cortisol that Jen mentioned, the.

369
00:17:26,285 --> 00:17:29,795
Blood sugar, the inflammation,
they are whole body processes.

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00:17:29,945 --> 00:17:32,615
And the skin is of course
the body's largest organ, but

371
00:17:32,615 --> 00:17:33,785
it's also the one we can see.

372
00:17:34,145 --> 00:17:36,935
So it can reflect things going
on elsewhere in the body.

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00:17:36,965 --> 00:17:38,675
It's basically the visible thing.

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00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:38,690
Mm-hmm.

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00:17:40,265 --> 00:17:42,515
Jen Oliver: And those are the threads
that run through a lot of what we've

376
00:17:42,515 --> 00:17:44,555
discussed in other episodes, isn't it?

377
00:17:44,555 --> 00:17:49,325
Cortisol dysregulation, blood sugar
spikes, systemic inflammation.

378
00:17:49,595 --> 00:17:52,685
They've all, they've all
downstream effects across

379
00:17:52,685 --> 00:17:55,235
multiple systems and the skin is.

380
00:17:55,805 --> 00:17:58,535
One of the more visible
places that registers them.

381
00:17:58,865 --> 00:17:59,465
Chris Smith: Absolutely.

382
00:17:59,465 --> 00:18:02,285
And ski, uh, sleep is
a really good example.

383
00:18:02,285 --> 00:18:03,815
I know we always talk about sleep

384
00:18:04,985 --> 00:18:05,075
Jen Oliver: with

385
00:18:05,075 --> 00:18:05,825
sleep champions.

386
00:18:05,825 --> 00:18:05,835
Chris Smith: Absolutely.

387
00:18:06,185 --> 00:18:10,955
Um, but poor sleep elevates cortisol
directly and that cortisol then

388
00:18:10,955 --> 00:18:14,705
feeds into both sebum production
and cellular inflammation.

389
00:18:15,185 --> 00:18:18,485
Um, it's another area where sleep
quality has a knock on effects that

390
00:18:18,485 --> 00:18:20,135
people don't necessarily expect.

391
00:18:20,195 --> 00:18:20,465
Mm,

392
00:18:20,765 --> 00:18:21,005
Matt Edmundson: yeah.

393
00:18:21,005 --> 00:18:23,075
We do like to talk about
sleep on this podcast.

394
00:18:23,285 --> 00:18:25,775
Um, and it's interesting, isn't
it, because poor sleep then is

395
00:18:25,775 --> 00:18:30,005
quietly implicated it seems in,
in everything, and at some point.

396
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,320
We're gonna have to accept maybe
that get more sleep as a lifestyle

397
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,610
tip and a more fundamental, uh,
biological requirements that we're

398
00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:38,840
all maybe collectively ignoring.

399
00:18:38,865 --> 00:18:39,185
I don't know.

400
00:18:39,185 --> 00:18:39,465
Mm-hmm.

401
00:18:39,695 --> 00:18:39,985
Jen Oliver: Yeah.

402
00:18:40,605 --> 00:18:41,660
No, I like sleep.

403
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:43,250
Matt Edmundson: Sleep is good.

404
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,170
We should change the name of the podcast.

405
00:18:45,860 --> 00:18:47,180
Sleep is Good podcast.

406
00:18:47,180 --> 00:18:47,930
Jen Oliver: Yeah, I know.

407
00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:53,120
'cause it, it fits into everything we chat
about, but we talked about diet before.

408
00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:55,570
And the diet piece
connects back to that too.

409
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:59,170
You know, blood sugar and insulin
response pathway that affects acne

410
00:18:59,170 --> 00:19:02,800
is the same pathway talked about
on the food cravings episode.

411
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,100
And these mechanisms, they
don't operate in isolation.

412
00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:08,200
They're part of the
same metabolic picture.

413
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:11,140
Chris Smith: Yeah, which is
actually good news, right?

414
00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:15,250
Because the lifestyle factors that support
skin health are largely the same ones that

415
00:19:15,250 --> 00:19:16,750
support a lot of other health outcomes.

416
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,840
So there's nothing niche or
complicated being required here.

417
00:19:20,590 --> 00:19:21,040
Jen Oliver: Okay.

418
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,770
So why do adults still get acne?

419
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:27,720
Chris Smith: So adults still get
acne because the four biological

420
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,770
processes behind acne being
excess, sebum production, um,

421
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,670
abnormal skin cell, shedding in
the follicle, bacterial overgrowth,

422
00:19:35,730 --> 00:19:37,740
and immune driven inflammation.

423
00:19:38,370 --> 00:19:41,880
Don't stop being possible just
because puberty ends, they get

424
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,290
reactivate throughout adult life by
things like, um, hormonal shifts,

425
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,880
uh, cortisol levels, blood sugar
fluctuations and environmental triggers.

426
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,060
Matt Edmundson: And the gap between
you should have grown out of this.

427
00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:58,800
And this is a real well understood
physiological process with effective

428
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,985
treatments is exactly the kind of
gap this show, uh, exists to close.

429
00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:10,170
Jen Oliver: So that's why adult acne
is so common, why it has nothing to do

430
00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:14,910
with hygiene or effort and why matching
your treatment to what's actually

431
00:20:14,910 --> 00:20:17,490
driving it makes such a difference.

432
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:17,940
Chris Smith: Yeah.

433
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,640
And that knowing the mechanism
puts you in a much better position

434
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,810
to do something useful about it.

435
00:20:21,870 --> 00:20:21,930
Yeah,

436
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:22,770
Matt Edmundson: yeah.

437
00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:27,450
No longer at the mercy of your sebaceous
glands and their terrible sense of timing.

438
00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:30,180
Jen Oliver: So that's it for this week.

439
00:20:30,270 --> 00:20:32,460
Make sure you hit that subscribe button.

440
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,330
We're unpacking the science behind
everyday questions every week.

441
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:39,930
Tell us in the comments what
you'd like us to explore next.

442
00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:43,440
Thanks for geeking out with us,
but for now, that's it from me.

443
00:20:43,860 --> 00:20:44,790
Matt Edmundson: That's it from me,

444
00:20:45,015 --> 00:20:46,050
Chris Smith: and that's it from me.

445
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:47,130
Jen Oliver: Bye for now.