This might be something you can relate to.

You're emotionally dysregulated, you're always stuck in defensive

state, and you can't access your feelings of safety and connection.

But this is kind of the antidote to being stuck in a defensive state.

So how can you access your safety state if you're always in defense?

I'm going to read a comment and a question from a YouTuber from the YouTube comments.

I'll share my thoughts, but I'm also going to share what my private

community members had to say about this.

I want you to hear from people besides me, people that are currently

succeeding and not too long ago were maybe in this exact same place.

My name is Justin Sunseri, I'm a therapist, a coach, and the creator

of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

Welcome to Stuck Not Broken, where I teach you how to live with more

calm, confidence, and connection without psychobabble or woo woo.

This is, of course, not therapy, nor is it intended to replace therapy.

This is gonna be a longer episode.

I'm gonna be doing a lot of reading and we're really gonna go in depth

into the answer to this question.

So, let's get started.

So, sit tight, grab a tea or something else that is warm and cozy, grab

a blanket if you need it, and get ready to spend some time with me.

Alright, so let's get to the comment slash question.

" I'm a long time lurker here, trying to make sense of what

my nervous system is doing.

Justin has kindly responded to my comments before, and I don't want to

hound him, but wondered if anyone here struggles to comprehend this stuff."

So first off, not hounding me whatsoever and thank you for lurking

and thank you for commenting.

I really appreciate your time here.

Um, no, but it's not hounding me.

The majority of the questions and comments that I get on YouTube

are appropriate and they're fine.

If it's super personal, I can't, I can't, um, touch upon it really.

What I'm going to do is take this one and generalize it more and address

it in that way I can't give you or anybody else specific life advice.

So there's that but yeah, you're not you're not hounding me.

Oh, and the comments and on youtube are overall, pretty amazing, like

the amount of support and care.

If you're watching this on YouTube, please keep it up.

It's amazing.

The commenter goes on to say, "What still ties me up in knots is this

-my nervous system is hyper aroused all the time, which is clearly

some kind of stuck defensive state.

But we're told that we need access to our safety state before

processing the stuck defensive stuff.

But if the stuck state is on all the time, what on earth are we supposed to do?

Surely, in order for the energy to calm down, it needs to be processed.

But I read so often that I shouldn't be processing it if I'm outside of my

window of tolerance slash / safety state.

But I have no choice to engage with the hyper arousal because the physical

sensations are so strong and consequently, I'm terrified that I'm engaging with

this defensive energy with no safety on board, thus making it worse.

It feels like a catch 22, which is just a dreadful thing for my anxious mind.

It's like I'm being told that I need to be anchored in safety to engage with

this energy, but I need to process this energy in order to settle my system.

Has anyone else experienced this constant activation in their system and uncertainty

about what the heck to do about it?"

Awesome question.

And I hope that in the comments, people are going to respond to you with

their understanding because I really I know that other people can relate.

What I'm going to do is share the thoughts from within my private community.

I copy pasted this over into the Stucknaut Collective and I said,

hey, do you have any words of wisdom?

And they do.

My community is freaking amazing, by the way, I want to give

them a little bit of praise.

All right, Karen said, "First and most important thing you

might want to do is validate your anxious energy with compassion.

I don't know exactly what you're experiencing, but I'm betting you're

being really hard on yourself for it.

Know that you are not the only one going through this kind of stuckness.

The polyvagal approach and its prescribed process can be overcomplicated.

Basically, what you need to do is feel safe more by noticing what

feels better and build on that.

Something soft, something warm, something funny, something

delicious, it can be anything.

Connecting what feels better inside to what feels better outside is

the essence of somatic healing.

Practice doing that and try to notice your body sensations.

I'm not saying it's easy, there are likely a whole bunch of negative

thoughts your brain is used to thinking.

And the best thing you can do for that is to get on your own side.

By that, I mean, there is the part of you that thinks you are bad and

you're doing horribly and everything is s*** and also there's a part of you

that thinks things could get better.

There's something really great about you and you're doing better than you think.

Which one do you want to win?"

Let's all a pause here and address this.

I love where Karen took this.

Safety might be too much.

It might be too much for someone to aim for me.

In theory, it's not, but to feel truly safe and grounded and connected to

yourself and connected to the present moment, it's not easy, but that's

the basic idea that we strive toward.

And when it comes to these YouTube videos and podcast episodes or my

blog, I speak pretty generally.

Uh, the goal is safety.

Okay.

But in my coursework, I get much more detailed about what does that mean?

What does that feel like realistically?

What can we do to get there?

So what Karen's touching upon here is maybe.

Safety, which might feel like awe or a deep connection with another

person or happiness or curiosity.

Maybe we're not there yet and that's fine, but can you go from where you're

at in this moment to just feeling better.

That might be, well, when I taste this blueberry, that feels

better than not tasting it.

When I smell this certain candle, this is a better experience than not.

Or when I feel this certain texture, right now I'm wearing a wool Sweater actually

does not feel that great So it's not taking me out of my safety state, but

it's I have less access to safety versus if I was wearing Like a softer cotton

shirt, which feels better for me So does that mean that you run out and buy all

your favorite textures and scent like no?

No, it doesn't what I recommend and I think this fits in well

with what karen's saying here is I recommend this to my therapy clients

as like a standard practice -can you find micro moments of safety?

Can you find little moments where things feel better than they did before?

Now, that does not mean you go get high because that feels better.

That's no, that's not what I mean at all.

And in the Building Safety Anchors coursework, um, I discuss the

feeling of like versus dislike.

You might like to get high, you might like to get drunk, but

that's different than being in her safety state and liking something.

That's different than tasting a strawberry mindfully and

having an experience of like.

Okay, so getting high and numbing out is not the same as mindfully experiencing

something in the present moment.

So to sum up my thoughts to what Karen put forward so far, micro

moments of what feels better than not.

That might not be pure safety and that's fine, but it's a step in that direction.

As you repeatedly do those micro moments, you might notice that it gets

the window of safety gets deeper or, or wider as you keep practicing it and

feeling your safety state activation.

You might notice that it's easier to access it.

It gets stronger over time and then the capacity to notice and allow and be in

your defensive states compassionately opens up more and more and more.

Oh, and I also love how Karen touched upon the idea of validation.

That's something I've talked about here on the podcast, but also in the community.

We talk about that a lot.

There's this three step process I do also with my clients- validate,

normalize, give permission.

Can you validate how you feel?

I feel anxious.

I feel overwhelmed.

I feel frustrated.

That's validation.

It's just acknowledging what you feel.

Can you normalize it?

That means, does it make sense why I feel this way?

I feel anxious.

I feel anxious probably due to my life context or I feel anxious

because this nervous system stuff is freaking confusing and I'm fed up.

There's a couple pieces of validation there.

And then can you give yourself permission to feel it?

I feel anxious because this nervous system stuff is so confusing and

it's okay for me to feel that way.

That, that three step process, validate, normalize, and give

permission can just help reduce the intensity of what we're going through.

So can you do that?

And then do a micro moment of, of, uh, safety.

Okay.

Karen's a second part.

She says, Oh, also, also Karen.

I like how she brought in, look, there's two things that are happening.

She actually validated there's two things that might be happening here.

One of them is frustration, anxiety, overwhelm, or defensive activation.

But there's also.

Some good stuff happening here.

There is some level of safety in our system.

If we're asking, if we're taking in and critically thinking and, and learning,

we don't do that without the safety state being active, at least a little bit.

If we're reaching out and asking questions and asking for support

and understanding from others, that tells me like there might be some

level of safety activation already.

So I love how Karen highlighted there might be two things happening here

at once, and it's good to acknowledge both, but you can also decide.

Which one do you want to win?

I kind of like how it's just like boom.

Which one do you want to focus on is kind of how I'm interpreting that.

Can you acknowledge both but then focus on one?

I like that a lot.

Although there is definitely, it's not a competition and ideally,

ultimately, eventually we want to get to a point where we can allow

defensive activation with safety.

These things can happen at the same time and they'll balance each other out.

All right, Karen goes on to say, "Secondly, a safe way to discharge

some of the energy would be exercise.

If you can only do a walk around the block, that's enough.

Once you accomplish that, or whatever movement you can muster,

give yourself the credit for it.

Try to notice how your body's responding, extend that moment with a deep breath,

and take a minute to feel good.

Consider that the energy is not your enemy.

It's okay to cry a little.

Crying helps discharge the energy, but the thing you need to remember

is that it's not all or nothing.

You don't have to dive in all the way, and you don't have to be fixed by tomorrow."

Actually, you're not broken so there's no fixing happening.

That's the one thing I'll change here about what Karen says and I

don't think she means it that way but yeah, you're not broken so there's

no fixing but we get the idea.

I'm just nitpicking.

Karen says, " Another small but powerful step you should consider

is reaching out to a trusted other.

Ideally a therapist but it can be just someone you feel safe around.

Call them, visit with them, get a bite to eat with them.

Talking about your story is not necessary.

Connection is healing.

But if you feel you need to talk, there are lots of anonymous groups on

Facebook to share with your experience.

I'll say it again.

Connection is healing."

I love that.

Great job, Karen.

Um, everything she put forward is like, amazing.

So it doesn't have to be, like, we don't have to be doing the work.

The quote unquote the work.

all the time.

If you want to go for a walk and just connect to what your sensory,

sensory, um, what the sensory stimuli are telling you, then do that.

That's connection.

If you want to hang out with a friend, that's connection.

It doesn't have to be like deep co regulation and

hugging and crying things out.

It's just like, let's just get out of the house, hang out, that's connection.

That is a small moment of healing.

It's a part, it's a piece of it.

Exercising can be great.

I think it's a really good idea to allow yourself to feel some.

Not all, some, like Karen said, of your defensive activation

and use it while exercising.

If you go to the gym, that's a great way to use fight activation, especially

if you're doing upper body stuff.

If you're doing running or lower body stuff, that's a great

way to use flight activation.

But, but, but, not all of it and not in dysregulation.

What we want to do is do it mindfully.

Mindfully feel.

the, uh, defensive activation a little bit, not a lot, not all of it.

If you go way too deep into it, you may end up hurting yourself.

Okay.

Go slow.

Ideally we work on the safety stuff first and then allow defensive activation

through, uh, something like exercise, but it's also okay to say, I feel

pissed off and I'm gonna go work out.

Or I feel anxious and I'm gonna go walk around my block really fast.

That's okay.

That might help to release a little bit of it.

And then can you come back home and do some sort of, uh, safety minute,

you know, a micro safety practice.

Flo says, I guess I need to tell you it isn't easy, but every effort adds up.

I began my way out of hyper aroused 24/7 state with a cognitive decision.

I had felt zero safety within for decades.

My best efforts with numerous therapists and the beautiful

safe settings that I engineered weren't melting my hyperarousal.

I knew I needed a 180* degree pivot inside because these exterior forces,

the well meaning therapists and safe settings, weren't shifting me interiorly.

I didn't have polyvagal theory language back then.

I began a practice called, "You're welcome."

The you being me.

I'd pause, note whatever internal hyperarousal was happening, and

silently tell it, "you're welcome."

I would repeat it to myself for hours at a time while driving, before going to

sleep, walking, any time I was alone and could split my focus between external

circumstances and internal chaos.

In a way, I was consciously giving up my control and welcoming in lack of control.

Nothing happened much at first except the break from internal

chatter that this mantra provided.

Even that was huge.

Four years of this cognitive messaging melted my resistance to reaching

out for therapeutic help again.

I didn't know the help would be co regulating and if I had known, I would

have not been able to welcome it too.

But I continued my go to mantra in secret alongside therapy.

Eventually, this therapist steered me toward a somatic experiencing therapist.

I guess I was still managing too cognitively.

So to be clear, this is stuff that Flo was doing before, uh,

being in the Stuck Not Collective.

And a lot of, sounds like, top down interventions, just sort of self imposed

top down interventions and there's nothing wrong with that top down interventions can

help to contain what's happening within.

It doesn't quite solve it I don't think but it can help contain it and eventually

top down interventions like learning Polyvagal Theory, which Flo is alluding

to here, learning the top down stuff, even learning about what I call psychobabble

or um woo woo stuff can be helpful because it reframes or it can give a new top down

container to what's happening inside.

Um, my first book, Stuck Not Broken Book One is all about top

down information and building a new short, simple self narrative.

As a first intervention of just like top down containing and thinking about things

differently, I think it's, it's fine.

And then that's kind of what, um, Flo was alluding to, but now she's saying

that she went to an SE therapist.

So.

She said, the SE therapist helped me begin my journey into

my body in front of someone.

So hyperarousing, but years of knowing a 180 degree turn from my

best efforts was necessary and good.

I willed myself to lose control in front of this therapist.

This began my journey into Polyvagal Theory, not cognitively, but somatically.

My own journey toward welcoming co regulation is slow, achingly slow,

but it's as fast as my nervous system and limbic system will allow.

I hope to welcome and feel the joy of a co regulator before I die.

That's how far my timeline extends.

It can seem like others get it pretty quickly.

I'm not one of them, yet I am as lovable and welcome as the others.

You are too.

She's talking to the commenter.

You are too.

Even if welcoming that truth feels alien to your hyper aroused state, try it.

Train yourself in the art of welcoming yourself.

I like this a lot.

This is a lot of top down event intervention kind of stuff at first,

but it pushed sounds like push flow toward the point of being more open

to what's happening within her.

And then that took her to a somatic experiencing practitioner, which

then brought her to her inner world.

So I guess the point to pull from this might be top down validation,

top down recognition of what's happening within you, top down

understanding, um, Polyvagal theory, top down knowledge might be helpful.

The commenter sounds like you're kind of on that path already and really

trying to figure these things out.

So that top down knowledge stuff I think is really useful.

And if, if we're asking, like, how do I make sense of this?

Or what's the next step?

That's a really good indication that something's happening

within us, that's moving forward.

Still, even if we feel frustrated and fed up, to me, that's a good

indication that there's still momentum forward and it's just stuck.

So having the top down knowledge can help open up an avenue to get unstuck.

Thank you Flo for your answer.

All right.

The next answer comes from someone.

She calls herself Love Day.

She says, Oh, bless.

So, so with you on this.

Was likewise for a long time until doing a guided meditation.

One day.

Where the teacher said, where is just one tiny space in your

body that feels safe and quiet?

Don't larf, but it was my right big toe.

After a while, all the toes, then the foot, then the other foot.

It took a couple of months, lots of listening and was hard, but

really helped as a turning point.

I zoned out most of the rest of the body scan at first, but knowing there

was even a square inch that felt okay changed the freeze to stuck

with one safe bit, which somehow gave me hope and change the mindset.

It was a blue star yoga Nidra body scan.

Sorry if I mispronounced that.

Thank you.

Love day.

Um, the idea here would be, it can't all be defense.

I guess is what to pull from this.

Is there a spot in your body that feels safe?

Or at least less defensive, or maybe just it's there and it's okay with it.

That might be the place to start according to at least love day.

That was her experience was, Oh, there's something happening within me.

That's not all defense.

The way I would work it with my clients would be, uh, let's find

a reference point for safety.

That could be a memory.

That could be imagination.

Usually that's the kind of the go to, um, or just ask them, "Hey,

what helps you feel less crummy?"

And that might be a sensory kind of thing.

Can we take that thing and then amplify it and turn it into an

actual micro moment of safety?

So being alone for someone in shutdown, that feels better than not being alone.

Okay, great.

Does that mean you isolate yourself forever?

No, it doesn't.

Does it mean you turn the lights off and cut everybody out of your life?

Of course not.

But can you mindfully be alone with less stimulation?

Yeah.

Like that would be closer to safety than not.

And that would also give us now we have a reference point for safety that

we can build from and we can enhance.

The next answer comes from Mandy.

Mandy says, My experience of this is that I needed a safe other therapist.

Well, a few trusted therapists, and a small group of reliable loving people

around me, which I didn't realize I needed until I had it in order to really

start to process what was causing the ever present hyper arousal and learn

how to live alongside it a bit more.

I am absolutely still there, still learning, still agitated a lot, still

doing behavioral adaptations, and can see many glimmers and changes.

It's both and, as it is for most humans, I think.

I like what Mandy's bringing up here, which, or at least what I'm pulling from

this, is that it's it's not either or.

I know that we talk about it and myself included, we talk about

this stuff as if you're always in defense or always in safety or you're

accessing your safety state and therefore defense like goes away.

But that's not the reality of it.

It just makes it easier to talk about, especially here on like a

YouTube video or, or podcast episode.

The reality is it's, it's much more complex than that.

And these things can exist at the same time.

It's not just defense or just safety.

It might be some defense and some safety.

And that's, that's okay.

That's, that's very much a normal part of the process is to realize that we have

the capacity for both of these things.

Eventually, once we have both of these things active, they

can exist at the same time.

On a deep level, when one can really somatically feel these things in the

present moment in their body, these things, the defense and the safety might

start to intermingle and meld and mix.

And that's a whole separate thing that, that happens at a very deep level that

you can objectively - not objectively - but you can experience, you can be not

just a witnesser, but a experiencer.

And you can feel these things shifting within you.

You can feel these Polyvagal shifts happening within you in real time.

But that's really when you have a strong anchoring in safety and not really before.

So before we even get to that point where we can allow both of these things

at a deep level and somatically feel and witness and experience these things

shifting, we have to feel a little bit of safety first and build that up and then

eventually safety and defense and kind of pendulate back and forth between them.

And then eventually we get to a point where they really intermingle and meld

together and create something different.

The all or nothing thinking is not super helpful.

And on my end, as I talk about these things in pretty stark cartoony terms

that might reinforce it, and it's not my intention, but when, when

learning these things, especially at the beginning, it it's helpful to have

that contrasty kind of feelto it to understand like, "Oh, I can be in defense.

I can also be in safety."

But that's the, at the outset.

As you get deeper into this stuff, um, especially as you start to feel what's

happening within you, that cartoony one dimensional way of speaking.

it loses its value over time.

And eventually you see that these things can exist at the same time

and eventually like intermingle.

It still helps, I think, to talk about them like this, but it's obviously

more, it's more complex than that.

Even with, when it comes to safety, I talk about safety as like safety, but

really it's, it's a spectrum of safety.

We can have maybe zero safety, which I don't think is possible.

We'll just to conceptualize, we'll talk about zero safety, which would be.

I don't even know what the hell that would be.

We could have a little bit of safety, which might be like, I

can feel it in my big toe, my right big toe, but nowhere else.

Or we could have enough safety to where we're just like at a

baseline and we're functional.

We could have tons of safety to where we are deeply immersed in

our safety states and welcoming any and every experience that we have

internally and our sensory experience.

And we feel a sense of awe.

And in my experience, at least the sense of awe, along with

feeling small in the universe, but having an important place in it.

Like that's a lot of safety in my experience, in my opinion.

But there's also, but it's a gradient.

There's tons of stuff in between that and constantly in defense.

So I think that's what, at least that's what I'm getting from what Mandy's

saying here, is that it's both and.

Like it's Not either or, it's, it's both and there's an experience

that can come along with it.

The other thing that she touched upon was the importance of having

somebody else and that really speaks to the importance of co regulation.

Co regulation is the giving and receiving of safety cues between mammals.

So, you know, from someone that you're with, you would laugh with

them, hug, uh, squint your eyes when you're listening and smiling.

Those are all safety cues that you give to each other.

As you give them to each other, hopefully your system receives it and

that can help reinforce your safety state or to get into your safety state.

With a therapist, you ideally would be getting lots of co regulation plus some

access to your defensive state with empathy and compassion, you know, in

front of another person, the therapist.

So the professional co regulation should still be there, but it probably

would look and feel different than more of like friendly co regulation.

So now be careful here because co regulation is not a tool.

I mean, it kind of is as a therapist and a coach.

I use co regulation as a tool.

I mean, I'm more like in my safety state and I naturally give it across, but I also

make sure that when I smile that my client can see me smile, especially virtually.

Um, I tend to like look away and process and think, but I have to make

sure to look at the camera like I'm doing right now, at least for you

on YouTube and looking and smiling.

That's really important that they see my co regulation so I can use it as a tool.

But when I'm with my friends, I'm, uh, in those terms, I'm just being myself.

Point here is when you're with other people, maybe it's like,

it's a good idea just to hang out.

I don't want you to hang out with people with the expressed intent of

like, "Hey, I need you to smile at me."

Or, I don't want you hanging out with someone, but really your intention is

to use them for their co regulation.

That's not.

I don't think it's going to be helpful personally.

Instead, hang out with someone because you want to hang out with them.

And then while you're smiling and stuff, try and catch it and turn that into a

micro moment of safety as they look you in the eyes, or as you look them in the eyes,

or as you hug each other, when you first meet, or as you smile at a joke together,

just notice it just for a micro moment.

Just notice like, Oh, I feel I can smile.

I'm in my safety state, at least in this moment is here.

All right.

I think just those brief touch points are more useful than sitting down with a

friend and saying hey, let's co regulate.

I wouldn't recommend that But that is what's happening without forcing

it in friendly interactions, okay?

You can also get if you can't have a therapist or a coach If you're not

joining group therapy or group stuff, if you're if you don't have friends you

can feel safe with okay, then the next best thing might be the next time you're

out and you have a pleasant exchange with the clerk at a store- notice it.

Notice what it feels like to be, to receive a smile, to maybe give a smile.

Hear their voice and what vocal prosody they have.

And if they don't have any, then, well, I guess it's still good to recognize that.

But if you can't do the therapy and the professional stuff, and you

truly are saying to yourself, I don't have friends, well, I don't know

what other option you have besides people, um, and that you interact with

throughout the day.

Oh, or unless you have a pet, pets are a really good way to connect with a safe

other pets are awesome at co regulating.

So the way you would do that is by smiling at your pet, letting yourself

do the, you know, high, high pitched vocal prosody, sing songy pet voice.

You can do that.

If you could do that, that means you have access to your safety state.

If you can look your pets in the eye, that means you have

access to your safety state.

That means you're receiving co regulation most likely and giving it.

These are all really good things.

So mindfully experience it.

Enhance it maybe through a walk outside if you have a dog.

Or I guess if you put your cat on a leash you can do that.

Some people do that.

But that's kind of your options.

I've recently had a couple sessions where people were ready for more connection.

They said I'm ready.

They felt that impulse to connect from their safety state.

I'm ready to connect with somebody else.

But I don't know who.

I don't really have people in my life that I can do that with.

So, with one client, actually with both clients, what we decided was, uh, that

it might be a good time to reconnect with people in your life at a deeper

level and that doesn't mean like deep emotional you're crying together.

That just means instead of chit chatting through a text, maybe

it's time to give him a phone call.

Or, instead of a phone call, maybe it's time to meet up for lunch.

Or, instead of that, maybe you plan out and say hey I want to go to this

convention this random convention.

Do you want to come with me?

One of my clients got super excited about that.

She was, uh, she loved the idea of going to random conventions and just

chit chatting with people at their booths about and learning something,

but then bringing an acquaintance or a peer or a coworker along with

her so that she could spend time.

That was her, like she was stoked about this idea of connecting with someone in

a deeper way, but also getting out of the house, finding novelty all these for

her were that fed her impulse to connect.

So, if you're interested in that kind of thing, you can do connections with meetup.

com.

There's Bumble for Friends.

I would not recommend hookups with people random sexual encounters that kind of

stuff is not the kind of connection, I think, that's gonna feed you.

Instead, we want to have um more meaningful connections that are hopefully

long lasting, but it might just start off as like acquaintance, and that's okay.

The next reply from my community comes from Beth.

Beth says, I came to Polyvagal Theory after getting some semblance of safety.

In the beginning of unstucking, I built my safety state through

co-regulation with my therapist.

She only had rudimentary Polyvagal Theory knowledge, but she

didn't need to know any of it.

She just needed to be safe for me.

So again, Beth speaks to the importance of co regulation.

Of connecting with someone that is in their safety state and able to

offer those co regulation pieces.

Your therapist or your coach or whatever professional you're working with, ideally,

they're offering safety cues even if they're not aware of the polyvagal theory

knowledge and like the biology underlying that, that's not super necessary.

As long as they're friendly people, that's good enough.

The next response I got is from Collective Member.

She mentions a couple other providers and she's sort of quoting them.

I don't want to say their names because I don't know how

accurate Collective Member got.

I'm sure she's on, but I don't want to disagree and then have that

person reach out to me and say that misrepresented what I was saying.

So I'll leave it anonymous, uh, and then respond to what

Collective Member's saying here.

[anonymous] says "safety first, but some people experience so much

charge that they can't get to safety until some of that is released."

I get it.

I don't quite agree.

Here's my rationale.

If somebody is showing up to therapy, or coaching, or a webinar,

or a seminar, or a retreat.

They might have tons of defensive state- defensive state

activation, but they're there.

The fact that they're there says they have a pretty darn good

amount of safety state activation.

They might have a long way to go, but that says a lot.

I've worked with people who, like when I was working in the school system,

I've worked with teenagers in particular who don't have co regulation at home.

They have toxic friendships.

They have bad relationships.

They are not doing well.

All the things that could go wrong are going wrong.

They have enough awareness of like, I need help.

And so they seek out therapy.

So they have tons of defensive, defensive state activation.

But would it be helpful to address that directly?

I don't think so.

You could definitely let them talk about their feelings and

that can help simmer things down.

Uh, I could definitely provide co regulation that

can help simmer things down.

I can definitely validate, normalize their experiences that

can help simmer things down.

But until they have enough safety state activation to feel the defense

- defensive state activation- I don't think it's a good idea to go into

the defensive state activation.

Think of this as like a gradient.

If you're a provider who has people showing up, they're already

doing okay enough to show up.

You know what I mean?

If you're, if you as a provider try to interact with a random person

on the street who's in a defensive state, they will, well obviously

it's a weird situation, but they, if we somehow neutralize that, they

would not even be aware that they have defensive state activation.

They wouldn't even be aware that there's a problem.

They would be defensive.

They would be blaming others.

They would not be taking responsibility.

They would have less safety state activation compared to someone

who's showing up to therapy or a seminar or a workshop or coaching.

That person who's showing up already has some level of a pretty good

amount of safety state activation.

I tell my clients like regularly my therapy and my coaching

clients, uh, compared to the people you're telling me about in your

family, you're doing the best.

You're the one in therapy.

Yeah, they're not.

Like that says a lot.

So if you're showing up, you already have some safety state activation.

If you're listening to this YouTube video or podcast episode, If you're

sitting still listening to this, you already have some level of safety

to think critically, to learn, to remember, and to be still, to sit still.

If you're walking, that's fine too.

If you're running that, I hope you're okay.

So there's already some safety state activation.

So to say that people who are highly in defensive state can't access

safety, that's, that can't be true because they're here, they showed up.

And if they showed up, that tells me we already have

something good happening here.

We already have some level of safety state activation.

So I don't agree with that.

Um, does it help to not address safety and to focus on defense and

to titrate it to reduce some of it?

Yeah, but- when I'm interacting with someone I'm giving co regulation

and that activates safety.

When I'm interacting with someone I'm validating, I'm

normalizing their experiences.

That activates safety.

All that helps to reduce defensive activation enough to be productive

and to go further into safety.

So, I don't think that it's um, I don't think that it's just focusing on

defense first would be a great idea.

I really don't.

And to say that someone cannot get to safety unless they

address their defensive state, that can't be true because they're there.

They showed up.

They already have some level of safety state activation.

One of the other things that Collective Member references is

parts work, which I don't endorse.

Um, I think it's unnecessary and I would call that straight up psycho babble, but

if it works for you, you do your thing.

I'm not gonna, that's fine.

So she says regarding the parts or head stuff.

So the top down stuff.

I agree with that.

Yeah, it is a top down intervention.

Um, she says regarding part stuff.

I like how you use the word stuff.

I decided at five years old that feelings and emotions can kill

you because I witnessed someone not surviving their mental state.

I know as a grown up logically that emotions and feelings

are your path to recovery.

But there's a deep rooted trigger to my autonomic nervous system.

That could make it not safe to allow the experience of safety and relaxation

as that's when feelings come up.

You need to find a way to resolve that imprint.

I kind of agree, Collective Member.

Yeah, I think this is actually a really good point, is that even when we do

access safety, which is a good thing.

But when you do that, the body attempts to self regulate and that means the defensive

state activation kind of kicks up.

So it's, again, it's not all or nothing.

So when you access safety, it's very common for someone to access safety,

feel it, experience, immerse in it.

And then they say, I feel sadness too, or I feel grief or

something comes along with it.

And that might be old stuff.

Um, it probably is old stuff.

So that's normal.

It's a normal part of the process when you truly access safety.

It's like your body says, "Oh, wonderful."

And I'm personifying the body here.

The body says, or the nervous system says, "Yes, now, now we can

release this other stuff within us.

Now I can release, I can feel my sadness and my frustration and my

despair and my-" fill in the blank.

So yeah, that's going to happen.

That's a normal part of the process.

The priority is to notice it from safety.

And if you're ready to go deeper into that stuff, go right ahead.

But if you're not, then a swing back over to safety, notice it, say hi to it,

validate it, normalize it, maybe give it permission to be there, but then focus

your attention over on safety and, uh, try to immerse yourself in that or just

say, "Hey, this was a great practice.

I grief.

I see you sadness.

I see you.

And I know why you're there and you're welcome to be there with me, but I'm also

going to go hang out with a friend or take a walk around the block or watch TV."

Okay, so something else will come along with safety.

That's normal.

It's actually kind of a good sign.

We just don't want to be out of control.

So make sure you're grounded in safety.

Pendulate back to safety if you notice that stuff coming up and

you can't spend time with it.

And just go do something else and then practice again the next day.

That process will help build the strength of your safety state It'll also reduce

the the defense state activation, it'll help titrate and release a little bit

of the defensive state activation.

It'll help your body learn how to pendulate from safety to

defense to safety to defense.

So it's a really good practice.

I definitely encourage you to do that.

But the priority is, is uh, making sure you're anchored in your safety state

and mindful and have self compassion.

Collective Member goes on to say, I think there can be these

barriers to experiencing safety and progressing with this work.

And it's important to acknowledge that.

So someone isn't left feeling they aren't doing it right

or they are beyond help, etc.

And even feeling shame that they can't help themselves with

tools that work for others.

Been there, done that.

Different now.

Yeah, great point I totally agree with you.

It's not about right or wrong.

Like I we I give the general idea especially in these YouTube

and podcast episodes or my blog.

Here's the general idea.

In the book in my coursework I go a lot deeper because there's time for that.

But here's the general idea In my client, in my, with my student work, in

the coursework, uh, in my client work, coaching and therapy, what this looks like

is so different, uh, person to person.

The general idea still applies, but person to person, it looks different.

Even with someone who's well versed in looking inward, well versed in

Polyvagal Theory, it looks different.

There's a, there's an individual I've worked with that knew this stuff inside

and out, and they were amazing at looking inward and feeling their feelings.

So from the outside looking in, they're doing great, but their

symptoms- they're presenting problem- whatever you want to call it.

They were not alleviating the anxiety, the depression, the fear, the anger,

all that stuff was not going anywhere.

They'd worked with somatic experiencing practitioners and

therapists and psychiatrists And they came to me and cause from the

YouTube stuff or podcast stuff.

And they said, "Hey, this is what I'm struggling with.

Can you help me out?"

And we, uh, we realized pretty early on that, wow, you, you're, you're great at

doing this stuff, but you don't stop.

Like you need to take a break from this, like work stuff.

Take a break.

It's okay.

Not to co regulate with someone.

It's okay just to hang out with someone.

Um, it's great that you can look inward and notice your,

your defensive activation, but, like pull it back like breathe.

It's okay.

It's okay to like hang out.

It's okay to watch a movie here and there and listen to music and veg out, like,

take a break You know, so we realized that you're doing amazing on the outside

looking in You're doing everything that would be asked of you but it's also

kind of your Uh, behavioral adaptation.

You're using this as a way to not feel and also in a sense, another person

I work with was again, amazing at looking inward and feeling their stuff.

Really good, or pretty darn good polyvagal theory knowledge, pretty

darn good polyvagal theory knowledge.

They were actually a practitioner themselves.

They were doing everything right.

Textbook wise from the outside, looking in.

But once I started talking with them within our second session,

we realized when you look inward, you go somewhere else.

You're no longer here with me.

Um, actually with the other person I talked about, the same kind of

feel was there that I got that my empathy was like, I just lost you.

You went somewhere else.

You're looking inward.

That's amazing.

Great job.

But where did you go?

I lost you in the present moment or you're losing yourself in the present moment.

So yeah, you're doing all the pieces, but, That's also like

your behavioral adaptation.

That's, you're also sort of, with the second person I'm talking about here,

there's a level of dissociation that's happening and you're cutting yourself off.

So the point here is, even if you do all the stuff correctly, maybe, I don't

know, maybe this is making it worse, but even if you do all the stuff and you're

conceptualizing it and you're putting it in practice, it's not, it's still

not easy and it may not be that you're doing it wrong, but you're an individual.

And what works for you as an individual might be different than the next person.

We can talk about the general concepts.

And I know these are helpful because people tell me they're helpful, but I

don't have the prescription for you as an individual, I have the general ideas

that are helpful and that we could even get more fine grained in these videos.

And I can tell you like generally someone in shutdown does

well with lower stimulation.

Does that mean that you need that today?

Right now, in this moment, Maybe, maybe not.

I don't know.

I think what it comes down to is, can you feel present?

And that would indicate safety state activation.

Can you feel present?

Can you feel grounded in the present moment?

From the present moment, can you feel things like safety or connection or

happy or joy or awe or curiosity?

Like that's great.

But in the present moment, can you also feel the other stuff, the

grief and the sadness and anger?

And if you can, that's really good too.

They both can exist at the same time.

So it's not about right or wrong.

And I guess the point here is even if you're doing it quote unquote

right, that doesn't mean that we have figured out or that you have figured

out for yourself what that looks like.

And that's a, at that point, it's, I can only take this stuff so far unless

I'm working with somebody one on one.

Once we're working one on one, like through coaching or through therapy,

That's where we get way more fine tuned and ingrained and- you know, that's

that's the way it works So, from the YouTube videos in my Podcast There's a

lot of good you can do and I'm glad that not just for that month I'm speaking

generally is a lot of good you can do it.

I'm glad that you're here.

I'm glad you're putting things into practice.

Keep going.

If you're needing more my coursework is in the description I would

recommend be the next step.

That's where you can get more fine tuned and learn more in depth about what you can

do and deeper knowledge pieces as well.

And, uh, if, if that is helpful, cool.

If you need that next level, that would be working one on one with me, or I guess,

you know, whatever therapist or coach or whoever that is close to you, or that

you put, you have some trust in that you think can help you get to the next level.

So, a lot of good can happen from YouTube stuff.

Or podcast stuff.

It might have a limit though.

In all honesty.

Uh, my coursework would be the next step or my books.

Those are less expensive.

That might be the next place for you to turn to is, is the books, um, or maybe

not mine, but other people's as well.

Totally fine.

But if you, if you've kind of maxed out on the podcast content and you're

like, "I know this, I can't do it."

That might be an indication that you're ready for the next level of learning.

Yeah.

And that would be where you're spending more time with someone

through coursework or books or seminars or webinars or whatever.

I don't care what it is, you need to listen to what speaks

to you and then follow that.

That's what I would recommend.

In general, in general.

If that's not enough, then that's the point where you'd work with

someone one on one if you can.

Or in a group setting or something like that.

I shared my thoughts, um, as each of my Collective members, my Stucknaut

Collective members shared theirs.

The themes here are small steps, micro moments, connections with others, or

even pets, using your senses, might be small steps with exercise like Uh, walk,

walk around your block, maybe go into the gym and letting yourself feel some

of your anger or anxiety and letting it out physically top down shifts like

having a mantra that might help contain defensive state activation doesn't

solve the problem, but it can help.

Those are some of the themes.

I hope that helps the video lurker that wrote this.

I hope this helps you get to the next step that you need to get to.

And for everyone else, Fellow Stucknauts, I hope this helps you as well.

I hope this has been a useful resource for you in your process of getting unstuck.

If you are ready for that next level and you want to spend more time with

me, then I would recommend my Stuck Not Broken: Total Access Membership.

You get all of my courses and my books in PDF form.

And book number one is out.

Two and three are coming out fairly soon.

You get all my courses and my books in PDF form.

You get my private community.

You get to spend time with me every other week for open Q and A's and

we're gonna be doing a cohort stuff for actually that's coming up.

By the time you hear this actually might be in place already, but we're

doing more, uh, cohort stuff and I have more planned for the future.

Uh, but that might be the next step for you.

Um, if not, you're welcome to hang out with me here in the

YouTube and podcast episodes.

Um, take notes, implement what you can.

Best of luck to you.

Bye.

This podcast is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or

be a replacement for therapy.

Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship.

Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are

experiencing mental health symptoms.

Nothing in this podcast should be construed to be specific life advice.

It is for educational and entertainment purposes only.

More resources are available in the description of this episode

and in the footer of justinlmft.

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