John [00:00:07]

You know, Julie, some of our favorite podcast episodes and most listened to episodes are when financial professionals get to hear from other financial professionals.

Julie [00:00:18]

Absolutely. I think that peer to peer best practice and idea sharing is so powerful. And I’m really fortunate that we have Jon Kuttin in here with us today.

John [00:00:30]

It’s kind of interesting because, you know, sometimes we meet financial professionals who are really, really good at what they do. And then there are some that have taken an extra step to go just beyond what we think of as the day to day planning and client experience of their clients. And they really have kind of unlocked the key to the next level of practice development. And in today’s conversation that we’re going to share with our listeners with John Cotton. He talks about leadership keys and how you move from being a financial professional to being a leader not only of your financial planning team, but also in your family and your community and the like. And I really enjoyed hearing Jon.

Julie [00:01:11]

I took so many notes from our conversation with Jon today. I’m really excited for our listeners to hear his insights.

John [00:01:17]

So, Julie, before we get to listening to Jon, why don’t you share with our listeners a little bit about who Jon Kuttin is and why we invited him to be part of our podcast?

Julie [00:01:26]

Jon Kuttin is a Baron’s Hall of Fame advisor with nearly 30 years of experience leading and growing a financial advisory practice to over 65 million in gross revenues, driven by a mission to develop leaders and to give back to the financial services industry. John also provides training and consulting services for seasoned practitioners through his consulting entity Kuttin Consulting Group. He regularly speaks and contributes articles and has been featured in a number of publications, including Financial Advisor Magazine, Barron’s Magazine and Forbes.

John [00:01:59]

So without further delay. Let’s listen in on the conversation we have with Jon Kuttin.

John [00:02:05]

Hi, I’m John.

Julie [00:02:07]

And I’m Julie.

John [00:02:09]

We’re the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human-centric Investing Podcast.

Julie [00:02:13]

Every other week, we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

John [00:02:23]

Let’s go.

Julie [00:02:25]

Jon, welcome to the Human-centric Investing Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us here today.

Jon [00:02:31]

Thanks, Julie. Excited to be here and looking forward to getting in after a little bit together today.

John [00:02:37]

So, Jon, it’s interesting when I speak to a lot of advisors, there’s a transformation that sometimes happens in practices and sometimes doesn’t. A lot of successful advisors get to where they’re at because they’re experts at execution. They they know their tasks. They know the planning angle really, really well. But you say that there is a transition that needs to happen towards turning at an advisor and executer a really a practice aficionado into a leader. What do you why is that so important as financial professionals think about their practices and the development of their practice?

Jon [00:03:21]

Sure, John. You know, great, great question and something I love to talk about. So you know, I think about it in these terms. I’ve got a saying that I’m known for in my office, which is it’s the leader is the leader, it’s always the leader. And what I mean when I say that is at some point in the business right, there’s two levels, in my opinion, of growing a business. The first is self leadership. So to your point, John, most advisors who get to a certain level in their practice were good at managing themselves, making decisions, holding themselves accountable, learning how to become a great practitioner. But most of us never signed up to actually lead other humans, right? Other real human people, um that actually require uh leadership and support, so on, etc.. So um I’ve been been for years talking about a concept in the financial services industry, right? That the data that speaks to me is for many advisors, zero to about a million in gross revenue is generally based on someone’s ability to have grit to become really good at marketing and sales. And for many of us, that’s what gets us from 0 to a mil its not easy. But ultimately many advisors have gotten there from a million to 3 million in revenue. On average, every practice is a little bit different. What we found is it has a lot to do with the actual experience that you provide to a client. So is what you do as a financial advisor, does it resonate with your clients? Do you retain clients? Do they stay with you for a long time? Do they continue to pay you that fee? Do you win more wallet chair, meaning more of the client’s assets? And do you does your business organically grow? Are you introduced to friends and family in the way of referrals? And for a lot of advisors, right, they get there in that million to 3 million dollar phase and somewhere in there you’ve had to become a leader, but you could still run what the industry calls a lifestyle practice, meaning um you really have people in the business, these humans, right? John and Julie that we talk about um that are there to ultimately support what you do. At some point, if those humans aren’t developed to become, whether it be a mini you or have a bigger role in the organization, it gets hard to ever get past that area. And I think a lot of advisors get stuck in that 0 to 2 or 3 million in revenue. The third phase of growth in a business is around really what I would call kind of creating quantum growth, which is interesting. The name of my podcast, as you know, and quantum growth is about leverage and there’s three different pieces that I believe can be leverage. One is money, right? So capital to invest in your business, whether that be in people, in marketing, in continuing to, to invest in the things that have worked up to that point. The second is technology, right. Being able to really leverage technology for efficiencies and scalability. And the last is that that human capital. Right. So in order to leverage human capital, what you really need as an advisor is to have and to develop leadership skills. And to me, the definition of a leader is someone who has the ability to influence someone to do something that they couldn’t do without you. And you know, the really interesting part. It’s starting to spread in the industry a little bit, as I see it, with some of the best practitioners out there that are going from practitioner to CEO or leader of a group as groups get bigger, but there’s not a lot of training, there’s not a lot of support and there’s not a lot of talk about how to actually do that because it’s much different work to be a leader than it is to simply be an advisor.

Julie [00:07:53]

Jon, it’s so interesting. This is one of my favorite topics. And as I know we discussed previously, I do a lot of coaching of financial advisors and I would say one of the most frequent inbound calls or emails that I receive is and I love how you use the word humans, but you know something to the effect of all of a sudden I feel like I’m more of an H.R. rule than a financial advisor. And I’m not sure. I don’t know if I have the skills. Add a great leadership coach years ago, one said to me, Julie, we hire employees and humans walk to the door. So, Jon, in your experience and expertise, how does an advisor who has been very successful in building a practice to whatever level of those great levels that you’ve laid out, how do they start to build those skills and shift their mindset more into that leadership role? Are there tactical or specific ideas that we can share with our listeners today? For those that are probably sitting there thinking, This is me, you’re speaking to me right now, and this is actually what’s keeping me up at 2 a.m.

Jon [00:09:03]

Yes, um and it’s funny, just as an aside, as we as I use the word humans with everything going on with artificial intelligence right now and machine learning, who knows, maybe one day we can take the that the the person out of the role. Right. And I say that in jest, but it is kind of crazy what we’re seeing out there with everything about artificial intelligence, etc.. So I would I would hit your question from a couple of levels. And I also, as someone who coaches and influences not just my my own team, but advisors in the industry, it is it it’s that piece that is a change of how we do things. And I have this saying I have a lot of sayings you’ll learn from our podcast here today, which is that for for most advisors and I would just say business people in general until you get yours, it’s hard to help other people get theirs. Okay, I’ll say it again until you get yours. It’s hard to help other people get theirs. And what I mean when I say that is leadership is different work we’ve heard right the concept of being a servant leader. And I think what happens is for a lot of advisors, they’re still trying to drive their income personally, which ultimately competes with trying to give a team member a real career track. And one of the things that I learned is once the business gets to a level that you realize you really can’t get what you want without helping other people get what they want, the natural progression is to start to learn and develop yourself as a leader. So I’ve got a mentor of mine who talks about a concept that you’ve probably heard of, which is, you know, you can either go an inch deep and a mile wide or you can go an inch wide and a mile deep. And I really think the the only way to develop as a leader is to start to go a mile deep on leadership. And as as I think about my own career track and how I’ve developed a business with 150 plus employees in it now managing over $8 billion of assets without the people in the organization, I would not be able to do what I do. And for most advisors, their number one business expense, not for all, but most are those humans, right? It’s that human capital. So if you have that investment and I call it an investment that you’re you’re making in your business, but you’re treating it as an expense and thinking of it as payroll, I think of it as an investment. And if I don’t develop the that capital, the human capital in the business, then I’m not getting the best return from the investment. And the way to actually develop that human capital is through leadership. So, Julie, one of the pieces that I would share is to me it’s about going a mile deep and then it’s about beginning to truly focus on vision, mission, values, so that you have a kind of standard way that your organization is thinking. And as long as you create a vision that’s large enough for those in your organization to see a bright future for themselves, they’ll follow you in that vision. So that’d be the first thing, is making sure we have a vision, mission, values. Quick aside, I talk about a concept that I’ve learned from a mentor of mine, which is basically you need to speak about your vision, mission values and those things that are important to you ten times more often. We call it the ten times factor. Then you think you need to so that it begins to ultimately resonate with the people inside of your organization. So, um, you know, sometimes I feel like my employees and business partners think I need a new speechwriter because in actuality, I just say the same thing over and over, but I’m trying to connect them back to the vision, to the mission and to the values of the organization. The second piece that I would share is you need to create common language, right? So common language is how do you build a culture inside of your organization where there is a way to communicate by having systems and common language around leadership? So Julie and John, you know, some of those systems that we use inside of our business is a combination of something that we call the five levels of leadership, which I could talk a little bit about if you’d like something that we call the readiness assessment model. Some call it situational leadership. So there’s lots of little kind of anecdotal stories that I could share. But let me know if you’d like me to talk through any of those. I’d be happy to.

John [00:14:22]

Sure. Give us an example, say, of the Five Levels of leadership. That sounds interesting.

Jon [00:14:27]

So this I’ve got got to give credit to, Ray Kelly, who’s one of my mentors and kind of my leadership guru who teaches my whole organization actually about leadership. You know, what’s interesting is I’m a huge advocate of being a lifetime learner. Right. So, you know, there’s a saying that I learned years ago, which is you’re either a knower or you’re a learner. And a lot of financial advisors are knowers because they have been doing it for ten or 20 or 30 years. And they know an awful lot about being a financial advisor, but they don’t go into places that are unknown to them, right? Like leadership, where there’s probably a lot to learn. Little known fact about myself is I am almost embarrassed to say this in a way, but I’ll say it. I consume about 15 to 20 hours a week, no exaggeration ,maybe I’m under exaggerating or being modest about 15 to 20 hours a week of podcasts. Listening to books. I don’t like to read books, but I do like to listen to books and just consuming content going a mile deep on leadership. So being a lifetime learner I think is a really important piece. When I think about the five levels of leadership. Ray taught me this and it’s a really handy tool. So the five levels of leadership basically say and by the way, there’s different types of five levels of leadership. This is Ray’s five levels. There’s also John Maxwell, who’s an amazing leadership coach, has his own five levels. Different. Very good, but different. So as I think about the five levels of leadership and how we use it inside of my organization, a level one leader can simply get the job done when told what to do. Okay really simple. Someone asks you to get a task done. As a level one leader, you can get the job done. A level two leader can do the same thing as a level one leader. But in addition to that, they can identify a problem. So as they’re trying to get that task done, they can identify that there is a problem that they encounter. Okay. Now, what what a level three leader is, is they could do, as you can imagine, they could get the task done as a level one. They can identify a problem as a level two. But in addition to that, they as a level three leader can actually solve the problem without the help of anyone else. I know this seems really, really basic, but to the advisors listening in, if what you hear from your employees a lot is, well, no one ever taught me how to do this. You don’t understand. I’m too busy. I couldn’t get the financial plan done. I couldn’t get the paperwork done. I didn’t have time to confirm the meeting. Okay. Those we view as as business owners, as excuses. Okay. What it really is, it’s a level two way of thinking because all that follower can see is the problem. Okay, Now, a level three leader can see that the paper. I’m sorry that the copy machine is jammed just to give a really simple answer. And instead of shooting you an email saying, Hey, John, just so you know that the you know, the copy machine is jammed and I can’t make any photocopies, so I’m going to go back to my desk and have a cup of coffee and check my phone. They actually solve the problem, whether it mean they un jam, if that’s a word, the copy machine themselves or they know who the copy machine repair person is, and they pick up the phone and they call that person and they get it done quickly because you know, it’s good for the business. So what I like to say inside of our wealth management firm is we love level threes, right? Level twos are frustrating. We love level threes. What a level four leader can do or is all about is all of the same things I said. Right. And I say it by the way, guys, I’m repeating myself ten times more, which is why I go back to what a level one can do so everybody can understand it is a level one can get the job done when told what to do or asked to do it. Level two can identify a problem. A level three can not only do those two things, but they can also solve the problem with no help from anyone else all by themselves. But what a level four leader can do is all of those things, but they can also rally a group of people around a common cause, i.e. solving the problem. So now you have somebody in the organization who says, Hey, Jon Kuttin had a meeting today with a prospect. The prospect did not show up. They could look at it and say, Well, that prospect might not have showed up because we forgot to make a confirmation call 24 hours before and that’s part of our process. I’ve identified the problem. I’ve now put a system in place through my CRM system that says 36 hours before and 24 hours before, it’s going to pop up on my screen with the script that I use to actually make the confirmation call. And what I’m going to do is I bet you other people in the organization are having the same problem with meetings not showing up. So I’m going to get the whole operations team together at our next meeting and I’m going to influence them to use this same system that I just described to the group on how to make sure that we confirm meetings properly so that that prospect does get into the office. And John, my advisor, can actually onboard them as a new client. That’s a level four. Not only can they solve the problem themselves, but they see the problem. They solve it for a group of people so that a common goal is actually cost. And then lastly, for sake of time, I won’t go through what all four do again because you guys are hopefully getting it by now. But what a level five can do is all of the same things that a level one through four does. But what they do, which is unbelievably rare and unbelievably valuable, is they actually can do all of those same things, but they can tie everything back to the vision, the mission and the values of the firm that goes on in their organization. And ultimately they can develop more level four plus leaders. So inside of my wealth management firm, we’ve got a vision statement, and our vision statement is committed to memory by everyone in the organization. I’d say 95% of us and there’s 150 plus people verbatim could say what I’m about to, which is Kuttin wealth management is not only a Baron’s Hall of Fame practice, but we’re known industry wide as a supercharged leadership development factory. We develop level five leaders with an exclamation point at the end. Okay, so that’s who we are. It’s part of our DNA. It’s what we do. And what we’ve now done is built a system and a process around developing leaders inside of the organization. The last piece I’ll make and I’ll breathe a minute is by by having these five levels of leadership. What happens, John and Julie, is if John comes to me as an employee of my firm and says, Hey, Jon, the copy machine is jammed, we have a level of common communication where I can say, Hey John, thanks for the feedback. That’s great. Level two leadership and John now knows I didn’t call him a name. I didn’t raise my voice, but he now knows that I’m trying to develop him because that’s part of our culture and can say, Hey, that was level two leadership. I see it. I’m aware. I’m consciously confident or consciously aware that I could have solved that problem. And if John didn’t know how to solve the problem, it’s now my job. Go back to my one of my opening remarks today, which is it’s the leader. It’s the leader. It’s always the leader. And it’s now my job to work with John and say, okay, well, that’s level two. Do you know what to ultimately do in order to solve that problem that we have in this case, the copy machine, Maybe you don’t know how to fix it. Maybe someone should teach you or maybe you don’t know the phone number of the repair shop. Or maybe it’s as simple is going to the front desk and asking a receptionist who handles that to make sure that it ultimately happens. So I know that was a mouthful, but I hope that that helped a little bit.

John [00:23:07]

Now, John is very interesting. Julie and I recently attended a forum that was sponsored by our friends at the MIT AgeLab, and we got to listen in to an interview by a woman who headed brand management for Ritz-Carlton. And I know Julie and I discussed this, but what she, the topic of her discussion was less about the kind of clients that they serve and more about the time that they spend on staff development and how they empower their employees, Every employee, to kind of take some of those leadership steps didn’t use the same language as you just did, but I could certainly see the parallels. My question for you, Jon, is as an advisor who’s looking to make this transition to leadership, are there behaviors that we should be aware of? Can we spot ourselves doing certain things that hold us back from becoming a leader? Because I think one of the things that would hold me back is I’m a control freak, right? I know in my mind what I think is the right way to have things happen. How do I how do I suppress that or how do I deal with that in my own nature?

Jon [00:24:17]

Yeah, great, great, great, great question. And I would describe it similar to how you did I think I think the here he was just like a really interesting part. And so for that, for our listeners, I’m about to become a level two leader. I’m admitting to being a level two leader, but then I’ll get to some level three and level four on it. So as a level two, I’m going to win and identify the problem so that the real problem is for most advisors who have the privilege to lead people in their organization, it’s because they’ve created a level of success in order to afford or have to qualified for a support person, right, for a staff person. So it’s a successful group. Now the reality of it is they don’t need to change because they’re already successful. Okay, so you go back to a term again. I learned from one of my leadership mentors. Well, I’ll ask you the question, John. Actually, I’m going to ask you the question, Julie, okay. So if I were to ask you the question, if you could choose between comfort or discomfort, would you choose to be comfortable or uncomfortable? Which one would you choose?

Julie [00:25:36]

Uncomfortable all day long.

Jon [00:25:38]

I knew you were going to say that. John, I’m going to go to you. Give me the other answer, please. Okay. You’re a leadership driven person, right? That’s how a true entrepreneur and self-starter. But deep down, John, if I were to ask you, would you choose to be comfortable or uncomfortable? Which would you choose?

John [00:25:58]

I’d choose to be comfortable.

Jon [00:26:00]

Choose to be comfortable. And most people do. Would you choose to watch Netflix and sit on your couch or go run six miles if you had to?

John [00:26:08]

Oh, I’m a Netflix guy, haha.

Jon [00:26:10]

Me too? Right? So most of us choose comfort over discomfort. It’s the easy button. That’s how how our I’ve done a lot of studying of. Kind of human behavior and just how our our mindset works. Our mind is there to actually keep us safe and comfortable. That’s actually what what it’s designed to do to keep us alive and well. Now, if I were to ask you the question, John, if you could choose between being uncomfortable. I’m sorry. Yeah. Uncomfortable or growth, which would you choose? You can only have one. You either not grow or be uncomfortable. Which one do you choose?

John [00:26:48]

I’d be uncomfortable. I’d want to grow.

Jon [00:26:51]

You choose growth, right? You would choose growth. And that’s how most of us are wired. Right. So we hit the easy button. Okay. But what we really want is growth. So one needs to understand their mindset and to to go back to level two. The problem is most advisors who are lucky enough to have someone working for them, they’re somewhere north of a half million of gross revenue. So in the in the real world, maybe not in the financial services world, they’re making an amazing living. I mean, that’s a lot of money, right, regardless of the platform you sit in. So they’re comfortable. They don’t need to do it. So what they do is they choose to surround themselves with people in their business that just make their life easier and they don’t really want them to grow. They say they want to, but what they really want to choose is they want to choose, right, that they’re just going to make my life easier. And they say things like, I don’t understand why no one gets it. Why can’t they see what I see every time I give it to someone, they mess it up. They’re all level two, level two, level two. So the best way to answer the question is you have to actually see what’s on the other side of it and really believe that once you get yours, tie back what I said a minute ago, it’s about helping other people get theirs. And the way that you do that is through leadership. And the best thing that I could say, Julie and, John, is at the end of the day, leadership is the hardest thing you will ever do. And it takes this word that starts with a P that most successful financial advisors don’t have. And you guessed it, it’s patience, right? Eee for you to develop your leadership skills. It takes a while for you to actually develop the skills and have someone go from a level one to a level four or five leader inside of your organization, it could take years. It could take five years, ten years. Now, when you get to the other side of it k, I’m full of great sayings, or at least what I think are great sayings all stolen from other people, by the way. But there’s this saying, right, that when you think about it, think about for a minute, guys, a mountain. Okay. On the bottom left of the mountain. Write the word simple. On the bottom right of the mountain. Again, write the word simple inside of the mountain, write the word complex. Okay. When you have a vision of developing people in your organization or building a million dollar practice or whatever it may be, it’s really simple. Right. This is what it looks like. This is what it feels like. I can’t wait till I get there. These people are going to work for me and they’re going to understand me. And we’re going to grow. We’re going to take over the really simple k, in the middle of that simplicity to get to the other side. There’s all this complexity, there’s personalities. There is. Mary didn’t show up on time for work. Right. Johnny wants to get paid more money and doesn’t want to do the hard work and thinks he or she is worth more. There’s all of this stuff and there’s a saying which I wouldn’t give a fig for simplicity on the near side of complexity. But I give my right arm for simplicity. On the far side of complexity, the problem is it’s years of hard work in that complexity, and most quit before they actually get through it. So as someone who I think is kind of gotten to the other side in some areas of my life, certainly not all areas of my life, what I would share as my very long answer to your very short question is those are all of the things that I think actually stand in the way of advisors getting there. And I can share with you as someone on the other side, it’s worth it. It’s worth doing all the hard work. It’s worth the learning, it’s worth the complexity. And one of those one of the pieces of leadership um, that resonates with me that I didn’t really realize as I kind of started on my journey of becoming a leader really probably 18 years ago was where I really started to focus on leadership is one, it’s never ending. So you can go a mile deep, just so you know, it’s way further. It’s way deeper than a mile as you get into it. There’s just different levels and levels. But most importantly, we’re all leaders. Forget about your employees. You’re a leader to your children. If you have children, to your significant other, if you have a significant other to your community or your church, to your synagogue, to whatever it is that you may do, in a way, we all lead someone and the better leader that you become, I think, the better impact that you can have on the world.

Julie [00:31:46]

Well, Jon, since this is the Human Centric Investing podcast, we have a list of questions and we’re going to just rapid fire and whatever is top of mind, share with us your answer so that we can get to know you a little bit better. Here we go. Jon, what’s the best age?

Jon [00:32:04]

Um, the best age. Well, I would say I’d like to say the best age is whatever age I am. Meaning trying to truly enjoy the age that we are. I have to say, as much as I enjoy every moment of the light of my life, I think, you know, thinking about being a kid. And I don’t know if it’s when you’re ten, 11, 12 years old, when you just don’t know the world and everything is possible and amazing and great. I think there is an innocence and a just a greatness, for lack of a better word, about being that age. So I’ve got four boys and they’re all from 23 is my oldest to 16, so they’re all beyond that. But man, it was kind of cool when they were just little and just like, thought I was a God and like, you know, they could do whatever they want and they can. And I and I believe that. But I think somewhere in life, for most people, everybody kind of gets this reality dose and feels like things that aren’t possible really are. Not to get too philosophical, but I’m a big studier of mindset and I think kids don’t understand limits. And I think adults believe that there are limits that actually don’t exist and therefore they don’t necessarily accomplish the things that they’re capable of because society has kind of beat into us to just be normal. And and I don’t know that that’s a long philosophical question. I could have just said 12, but that’s that’s how I would look at it.

John [00:33:49]

Jon On a scale of 1 to 10, one being introvert, ten being extrovert, where do you place yourself?

Jon [00:33:55]

So you guys won’t believe this one, But I would say I am. I’m a two, I’m introverted, so clearly I can speak and be extroverted when I need to be, but I actually enjoy being by myself or enjoy being with my wife and my kids and just kind of family. It’s work for me to be at a dinner party or speak at a part on a podcast or a presentation. I love doing it and I feel like I’m pretty good at it. But it it sucks my energy. It doesn’t add energy.

John [00:34:32]

I’m going to record your answer and use it for myself over and over and over again.

Jon [00:34:36]

Yeah, hahaha

Julie [00:34:38]

I love that. I think being aware of what takes our energy and what recharges us is so important. I think that’s a bit of a superpower once you can tap into that in life.

Jon [00:34:46]

Self-awareness, right? Absolutely.

Julie [00:34:49]

Exactly! Jon, would you rather binge a TV show or watch a movie?

Jon [00:34:53]

I like to do both. My goodness. I give a lot. I love the way I unwind is to to sit in front of the TV. Sometimes I stare at and I have no idea because I’m thinking about something else and I don’t pay attention and I just ask my wife like, what just happened? But. But I actually think of late. It is binge a series. I think back in the day before there were series like series that you could binge. I loved going to the movies with a tub of popcorn and a big Diet Coke, but today I’d say Netflix and Hulu and all those things are are are where I spend more of my time.

John [00:35:36]

My last question for you, Jon. Are you a dog person or a cat person?

Jon [00:35:40]

I’m a fish person. I’m weird. That’s cool. I have. I have. Yeah. Well, my my oldest son is had a bad experience, not an awful experience, but a scary experience where she was fine with a dog when he was little. And therefore we are not dog people. And I didn’t have a dog growing up. I don’t want to offend any listeners, but I don’t. I don’t get cats. It’s not my thing. But I do have a beautiful pond in my backyard and I have about 30 koi fish. And the good thing about koi fish is you actually don’t need to walk them. They don’t need to clean up after them. You just need to get someone to clean your pond. And when you go away on vacation, you don’t need to put them anywhere because they could just swim around. So...

John [00:36:25]

If you don’t have a cat and she doesn’t have to worry about the koi.

Jon [00:36:28]

And it all works. Where I live, there’s I live in a very wooded area, etc. and we have a lot of wildlife and deer. So I tell people I have pet deer because they literally live on my property and eat all of my flowers and trees and drive me bonkers. So it’s been me against the deer and I can’t keep them out.

John [00:36:52]

And they’re winning.

Jon [00:36:54]

Yes, I’m losing the battle. Not only John, and I’m losing, but I’ve given up. And then you can send the deer the podcast they’ve won and please have them go away.

Julie [00:37:04]

Thank you so much for sharing all of these tactics and ideas. And my mind is swirling, and I wish we had hours more together to talk about this. But since we’re out of time for the day, for those listening, if you’re interested in finding out more about Jon’s independent practice of Ameriprise Financial Services, LLC, visit Kuttin and Wealth Management dot com. Or if you’re interested in learning more about Jon’s Coaching and training organization. Visit Kuttin consulting group dot com. On behalf of both John and myself, thank you so much for being here with us on the Human-centric Investing Podcast today.

Jon [00:37:39]

Thanks for having me, Julie and John it was a pleasure.

Julie [00:37:42]

Thanks for listening to the Hartford Funds Human-centric Investing Podcast. If you’d like to tune in for more episodes, don’t forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter or YouTube.

John [00:37:57]

And if you’d like to be a guest and share your best ideas for transforming client relationships, email us. Guest Booking at Hartford Funds dot com. We’d love to hear from you.

Julie [00:38:08]

Talk to you soon.

John [00:38:10]

The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the guest who is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.