1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,629 I do agree with your statement though, that SaaS has had as big of 2 00:00:03,629 --> 00:00:05,100 an impact to IT as virtualization. 3 00:00:05,769 --> 00:00:06,100 Right. 4 00:00:06,620 --> 00:00:07,965 But you are correct. 5 00:00:08,032 --> 00:00:08,976 there are some, 6 00:00:09,111 --> 00:00:09,951 Oh my gosh. 7 00:00:10,161 --> 00:00:10,461 Hold on. 8 00:00:10,498 --> 00:00:11,368 wait, listeners. 9 00:00:11,398 --> 00:00:15,538 I want listeners to know this is probably 140 some episodes in, 10 00:00:15,838 --> 00:00:17,518 Curtis just said I was correct. 11 00:00:21,573 --> 00:00:23,872 Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day. 12 00:00:23,872 --> 00:00:24,502 I'm just saying, 13 00:00:44,107 --> 00:00:46,867 Hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore it All podcast. 14 00:00:46,867 --> 00:00:47,537 I'm your host, W. 15 00:00:47,557 --> 00:00:49,327 Curtis Preston, AKA Mr. 16 00:00:49,327 --> 00:00:49,777 Backup. 17 00:00:50,287 --> 00:00:55,627 And I have with me, a guy that knows way too much about baffles and how 18 00:00:55,627 --> 00:01:02,037 they relate to both air filtration And oil filtration, Prasanna Malaiyandi. 19 00:01:02,717 --> 00:01:06,077 And do you know where I learned all this knowledge from 20 00:01:06,217 --> 00:01:09,027 I'm going to, I'm just going to go on a limb and say youtube. 21 00:01:10,417 --> 00:01:14,457 Bing bing bing bing bing, yes. 22 00:01:14,487 --> 00:01:15,247 That is correct, 23 00:01:15,247 --> 00:01:19,613 Here I am having this discussion with you about, but, dust separation, 24 00:01:19,613 --> 00:01:23,766 dust collection, and when you have a dust collector, the first thing you 25 00:01:23,766 --> 00:01:27,516 gotta do is put this like separator thing that gets the big stuff out 26 00:01:27,516 --> 00:01:31,486 of the way, and they call it a baffle or there's a cyclone thing. 27 00:01:31,486 --> 00:01:35,053 And I started talking to you and you're like, oh, that reminds me of this baffle 28 00:01:35,053 --> 00:01:38,473 thing and the engine, and I'm like, what no world are you talking about? 29 00:01:39,103 --> 00:01:43,813 Yeah, because when you run high horsepower cars, and if you don't have 30 00:01:43,813 --> 00:01:47,643 a way to vent the crankcase pressure, then it'll cause your head gasket... 31 00:01:47,643 --> 00:01:52,103 I hate it when don't have enough way to vent my crankcase pressure. 32 00:01:52,178 --> 00:01:56,258 And so what they do is they basically drill a hole into the valve cover. 33 00:01:56,258 --> 00:02:00,188 They attach a hose and before the hose, there's a bunch of baffles because the 34 00:02:00,188 --> 00:02:03,998 last thing you want is engine oil, leaving the engine and going down this tub. 35 00:02:04,328 --> 00:02:05,073 That would be bad. 36 00:02:05,378 --> 00:02:05,618 Yeah. 37 00:02:05,648 --> 00:02:08,768 And then it goes down the tube into what they call a catch can, which 38 00:02:08,768 --> 00:02:11,777 basically separates out the liquids fall to the bottom, and then the 39 00:02:11,777 --> 00:02:14,297 rest of the vapors and everything else has vented out the top. 40 00:02:14,567 --> 00:02:16,247 And so that relieves the pressure of the engine. 41 00:02:17,327 --> 00:02:20,027 So it's almost the exact same thing as what you have. 42 00:02:21,417 --> 00:02:25,300 You need a mechanism to be able separate out, particles, from the air. 43 00:02:25,630 --> 00:02:26,660 Then this is doing thing. 44 00:02:26,820 --> 00:02:28,810 Separating out liquid from the air. 45 00:02:29,645 --> 00:02:33,065 And instead of returning the oil to the engine, I'm putting the 46 00:02:33,065 --> 00:02:34,875 wood particles down in a trash can. 47 00:02:34,925 --> 00:02:36,005 Yes, that is true. 48 00:02:36,204 --> 00:02:36,894 there's two things. 49 00:02:36,894 --> 00:02:39,774 One is they'll separate out the liquids in the catch can, and then 50 00:02:39,774 --> 00:02:41,544 you dumped the catch can periodically. 51 00:02:42,469 --> 00:02:43,385 Oh, you just dump it. 52 00:02:43,385 --> 00:02:43,835 Okay. 53 00:02:44,195 --> 00:02:44,595 Gotcha. 54 00:02:44,603 --> 00:02:45,743 again, same thing. 55 00:02:46,058 --> 00:02:46,358 Yep. 56 00:02:46,448 --> 00:02:46,988 Exactly. 57 00:02:47,198 --> 00:02:48,518 That's the waste that you dump. 58 00:02:49,373 --> 00:02:51,083 And the air that they're venting. 59 00:02:52,453 --> 00:02:59,361 in my case, the air is being vented to the actual, the dust collector itself 60 00:02:59,931 --> 00:03:02,161 that I've been informed is not a vacuum. 61 00:03:02,161 --> 00:03:05,555 it is a, an impeller and It pushes air. 62 00:03:05,645 --> 00:03:06,905 It doesn't pull air. 63 00:03:08,105 --> 00:03:10,835 I don't know what the difference is, but, know, 64 00:03:11,185 --> 00:03:13,035 It pushes air. 65 00:03:14,330 --> 00:03:15,140 That's what I've been told. 66 00:03:15,140 --> 00:03:17,290 It's not a vacuum, you put a hose on the front of it. 67 00:03:17,290 --> 00:03:18,250 It's going to suck. 68 00:03:18,460 --> 00:03:21,850 So it's got to really suck and that's its job. 69 00:03:21,952 --> 00:03:25,492 The stuff I'm researching lately due to my little woodworking project, 70 00:03:26,462 --> 00:03:30,556 I don't know what to tell you, but we're not here to talk about that. 71 00:03:30,931 --> 00:03:32,551 Can we just talk about that instead? 72 00:03:33,346 --> 00:03:33,886 Yeah. 73 00:03:34,276 --> 00:03:36,946 We could talk about that clearly for a while. 74 00:03:37,014 --> 00:03:37,360 yeah. 75 00:03:37,390 --> 00:03:42,100 I have a list by the way, I've created a list of tasks in my house of stuff. 76 00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:43,480 I need to go do this evening. 77 00:03:43,491 --> 00:03:47,541 Little stuff that I need to do that have nothing to do with that project. 78 00:03:48,451 --> 00:03:50,444 because I've been so obsessed with that project, one of them is 79 00:03:50,444 --> 00:03:52,349 changing the air filter in my heater. 80 00:03:52,939 --> 00:03:53,369 That's 81 00:03:53,729 --> 00:03:57,099 I gotta, I gotta put the cover back on my barbecue. 82 00:03:57,199 --> 00:03:58,509 You can't put the cover on right away. 83 00:03:58,509 --> 00:03:59,169 Cause it's hot. 84 00:03:59,289 --> 00:04:00,999 And then I forget, I got to do that. 85 00:04:01,749 --> 00:04:05,319 I got to change the light bulbs in the bathroom, and I got to replace 86 00:04:05,319 --> 00:04:07,029 the batteries in the smoke detector. 87 00:04:07,029 --> 00:04:08,349 I'm glad everybody understands. 88 00:04:08,379 --> 00:04:10,659 This is what's going on in my life. 89 00:04:10,839 --> 00:04:11,769 This is what I'm doing. 90 00:04:11,769 --> 00:04:15,699 As soon as this is done, as I'm doing those menial tasks, because 91 00:04:15,969 --> 00:04:20,139 here's a question for you, because I tend to know random things about random things. 92 00:04:20,168 --> 00:04:21,359 how old are you smoke detectors? 93 00:04:21,359 --> 00:04:21,871 they're pretty new. 94 00:04:22,691 --> 00:04:23,611 They're like a year. 95 00:04:25,251 --> 00:04:29,166 You bought them within a year, but you bought them as battery ones 96 00:04:29,766 --> 00:04:33,486 because I thought in California, they're not allowed to sell without 97 00:04:33,696 --> 00:04:34,626 . It's battery backup. 98 00:04:35,161 --> 00:04:35,491 Okay. 99 00:04:36,426 --> 00:04:37,086 Are you done? 100 00:04:37,126 --> 00:04:39,106 Judgy man, judging, McJudgyface? 101 00:04:39,201 --> 00:04:43,791 I just wanted to clarify, because my next question would be if your smoke detector 102 00:04:43,791 --> 00:04:47,901 was old enough to only require batteries, then I'd say you should probably replace. 103 00:04:48,816 --> 00:04:49,176 Yeah. 104 00:04:49,183 --> 00:04:52,391 I've actually changed the smoke detectors in his house a couple of times. 105 00:04:52,443 --> 00:04:56,231 one when I just felt that they just had way too many false alarms and 106 00:04:56,231 --> 00:04:59,271 especially in a world where now all the smoke detectors are connected. 107 00:04:59,297 --> 00:05:01,337 And so when one goes off, they all go off. 108 00:05:01,637 --> 00:05:03,897 And then my, my poor little granddaughter is very upset. 109 00:05:04,527 --> 00:05:06,627 She doesn't like it when something screams at her ear at 110 00:05:06,627 --> 00:05:07,737 three o'clock in the morning. 111 00:05:08,507 --> 00:05:08,817 Yeah. 112 00:05:08,817 --> 00:05:09,422 That's no fun. 113 00:05:10,502 --> 00:05:11,072 no fun. 114 00:05:12,662 --> 00:05:14,642 So speaking of 115 00:05:14,707 --> 00:05:17,517 are we going to talk 116 00:05:17,517 --> 00:05:20,282 ...? Talking about backup, backup, backup batteries, backup stuff. 117 00:05:20,322 --> 00:05:28,049 I thought we could talk about this world of SAS and I'm just going to, first 118 00:05:28,049 --> 00:05:33,743 I'll put out my disclaimer, I work for Druva, which is a SAS based backup 119 00:05:33,743 --> 00:05:35,363 company in case you don't know that. 120 00:05:35,693 --> 00:05:38,273 And Prasanna works for Zoom, which is a SAS. 121 00:05:38,390 --> 00:05:40,780 Unified communication 122 00:05:41,095 --> 00:05:42,115 as a service. 123 00:05:42,610 --> 00:05:42,820 Yeah. 124 00:05:42,865 --> 00:05:43,465 UCAS. 125 00:05:44,390 --> 00:05:47,849 so we're all about, we're all, we're very sassy over here, but this is 126 00:05:47,849 --> 00:05:49,319 not a podcast of either company. 127 00:05:49,319 --> 00:05:51,569 The opinions that you hear are ours. 128 00:05:52,109 --> 00:05:56,707 And, and by the way, if you think I'm full of it, if you, after you listened 129 00:05:56,707 --> 00:06:00,917 to this podcast, if you think I'm full of it, I really want you to come on and 130 00:06:00,917 --> 00:06:02,387 I want you to tell me why I'm full of it. 131 00:06:02,417 --> 00:06:03,857 I'm happy to have you on, 132 00:06:04,872 --> 00:06:05,292 Oh, 133 00:06:05,457 --> 00:06:06,517 your name is Stuart. 134 00:06:07,607 --> 00:06:09,502 If your name is Stuart, you're not coming on. 135 00:06:09,802 --> 00:06:10,402 Just saying 136 00:06:11,512 --> 00:06:12,682 Stuart, reach out to me. 137 00:06:12,742 --> 00:06:15,252 I'll schedule you in. 138 00:06:15,692 --> 00:06:17,392 Stuart's getting a lot of call outs lately. 139 00:06:17,392 --> 00:06:18,622 I got to finish my disclaimer. 140 00:06:18,622 --> 00:06:18,922 Yes. 141 00:06:18,983 --> 00:06:23,023 and so the opinions that you hear are ours, please rate us 142 00:06:23,283 --> 00:06:25,903 at ratethispodcast.com/restore. 143 00:06:25,970 --> 00:06:29,430 If you're listening to us on apple podcasts, just scroll down to the bottom, 144 00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:31,290 give us some stars, make a comment. 145 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:32,460 It will make my day. 146 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:35,700 You put in it, you actually put in an actual text review that will 147 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:39,330 make my day so cool to hear people actually say nice things about us. 148 00:06:40,530 --> 00:06:44,970 And then, like I said, if you think that one of us or both of us are 149 00:06:44,970 --> 00:06:46,350 full of it, when we talk about 150 00:06:47,995 --> 00:06:48,495 Curtis 151 00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:49,750 Yeah. 152 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:53,070 Then the day, then come on the show and tell us otherwise we, we 153 00:06:53,070 --> 00:06:55,980 promise not to yell at you much. 154 00:06:57,180 --> 00:06:58,652 And, and that's all we have. 155 00:06:58,682 --> 00:07:00,512 So let's get talking about this. 156 00:07:00,512 --> 00:07:06,092 I'm going to say that the world of SAS has transformed the face 157 00:07:06,092 --> 00:07:10,532 of IT as much, if not more than virtualization, what do you think? 158 00:07:18,152 --> 00:07:19,832 So two questions... 159 00:07:20,372 --> 00:07:21,072 always two. 160 00:07:21,812 --> 00:07:25,442 The first is we should define what SaaS is, because SAS can mean 161 00:07:25,442 --> 00:07:27,002 different things for different people. 162 00:07:27,282 --> 00:07:30,822 sass only means one thing, but different people think differently. 163 00:07:30,852 --> 00:07:32,022 So that's a good point. 164 00:07:32,052 --> 00:07:32,382 Yeah. 165 00:07:32,462 --> 00:07:39,742 The second question is your statement you made that SaaS had has a bigger 166 00:07:39,742 --> 00:07:42,292 impact than virtualization, right? 167 00:07:42,322 --> 00:07:42,442 Is 168 00:07:42,442 --> 00:07:44,032 that correct on it? 169 00:07:45,317 --> 00:07:49,603 I think I might've said as, as big, if not more, as I think is what I said, but. 170 00:07:50,008 --> 00:08:00,358 I almost want to say yes, but I believe that the cloud has had a bigger impact 171 00:08:00,358 --> 00:08:04,108 on it than either of the prior 2. 172 00:08:04,568 --> 00:08:07,048 So the cloud includes SAS in my view 173 00:08:07,328 --> 00:08:11,576 view But SAS is not necessarily well, SAS, if you're SAS, 174 00:08:11,576 --> 00:08:12,836 you're going to be cloud, but. 175 00:08:13,056 --> 00:08:15,280 And virtualization cloud is virtualization 176 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,667 Virtualization was a step to the cloud, Server virtualization. 177 00:08:19,277 --> 00:08:19,547 Yep. 178 00:08:20,167 --> 00:08:25,025 But yeah, Yeah, we could have a separate podcast where we just argue on that, but 179 00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:29,310 but no, I do agree with your statement though, that SaaS has had as big of 180 00:08:29,310 --> 00:08:30,780 an impact to IT as virtualization. 181 00:08:31,450 --> 00:08:31,780 Right. 182 00:08:32,300 --> 00:08:33,645 But you are correct. 183 00:08:33,712 --> 00:08:34,657 there are some, 184 00:08:34,792 --> 00:08:35,632 Oh my gosh. 185 00:08:35,842 --> 00:08:36,142 Hold on. 186 00:08:36,179 --> 00:08:37,049 wait, listeners. 187 00:08:37,079 --> 00:08:41,219 I want listeners to know this is probably 140 some episodes in, 188 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:43,199 Curtis just said I was correct. 189 00:08:47,254 --> 00:08:49,552 Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day. 190 00:08:49,552 --> 00:08:53,392 I'm just saying, so unless you're in Europe, in which case 191 00:08:53,392 --> 00:08:55,459 it's 24-hour o'clock, it's only right once a day, whatever. 192 00:08:55,849 --> 00:08:58,729 Anyway, so 193 00:08:58,964 --> 00:09:00,004 So the first point about SaaS 194 00:09:00,004 --> 00:09:03,482 yeah, so I think that is a really good point to make. 195 00:09:03,538 --> 00:09:08,148 And because there are like, I can think of one really big company, 196 00:09:08,878 --> 00:09:11,848 #Adobe who uses the term SAS. 197 00:09:12,478 --> 00:09:13,738 very incorrectly. 198 00:09:13,781 --> 00:09:17,951 So let me define something else before I define SaaS I'm going to 199 00:09:17,951 --> 00:09:20,621 define subscription-based pricing. 200 00:09:22,721 --> 00:09:27,101 Subscription-based pricing is: I would like to use this software 201 00:09:27,101 --> 00:09:31,666 product - Adobe Illustrator - some software product like that. 202 00:09:31,696 --> 00:09:36,106 You're going to run on your laptop or a server or a desktop 203 00:09:36,481 --> 00:09:38,021 in your physical environment. 204 00:09:38,071 --> 00:09:41,941 I don't want to pay a thousand dollars for it right now, but what I am willing 205 00:09:41,941 --> 00:09:45,251 to Do is to pay $50 a month forever. 206 00:09:45,716 --> 00:09:50,216 And I will get the updated versions of that software as they come out with it. 207 00:09:50,566 --> 00:09:55,906 As they come out with Adobe illustrator, 12.0, I will get the latest and greatest? 208 00:09:55,906 --> 00:10:00,256 but I need to download that software and re-install it so that I can 209 00:10:00,286 --> 00:10:02,056 upgrade my local installation. 210 00:10:02,356 --> 00:10:04,666 I'm running the software on my hardware. 211 00:10:04,726 --> 00:10:06,016 That is the key. 212 00:10:06,376 --> 00:10:10,156 I'm either running it on my hardware arm, running it on hardware that I'm renting. 213 00:10:10,606 --> 00:10:17,206 So you can download Oracle and put Oracle in a server in AWS or Azure or 214 00:10:17,206 --> 00:10:20,536 GCP that, and you could pay Oracle. 215 00:10:21,286 --> 00:10:24,046 A thousand dollars a month per server, by the way, I literally 216 00:10:24,046 --> 00:10:25,426 have no idea what Oracle costs. 217 00:10:25,456 --> 00:10:26,506 I just made up a number. 218 00:10:26,806 --> 00:10:27,916 It's probably more than 219 00:10:27,931 --> 00:10:28,951 It's more than that, 220 00:10:29,446 --> 00:10:29,896 Yeah. 221 00:10:29,956 --> 00:10:30,633 So you 222 00:10:30,768 --> 00:10:31,338 but you're, 223 00:10:31,413 --> 00:10:32,193 bucks a month. 224 00:10:32,388 --> 00:10:35,118 but you're managing the hardware that 225 00:10:35,838 --> 00:10:37,338 You're managing the operating, 226 00:10:38,343 --> 00:10:38,643 Yep. 227 00:10:38,718 --> 00:10:40,818 you're managing the operating system as well. 228 00:10:40,914 --> 00:10:42,814 And in addition to installing the application, 229 00:10:42,884 --> 00:10:45,314 the only thing you're doing is you're paying for it differently. 230 00:10:45,344 --> 00:10:46,184 That is different. 231 00:10:46,604 --> 00:10:48,374 That is not SAS. 232 00:10:48,441 --> 00:10:52,101 This is one of these Curtis obsesses over the meaning of words 233 00:10:52,101 --> 00:10:52,411 No. 234 00:10:52,501 --> 00:10:55,051 It's important though, because I think a lot of people do get it confused. 235 00:10:56,131 --> 00:10:56,641 It is true. 236 00:10:56,641 --> 00:11:01,081 A lot of people, including competitors of Druva that refer to their subscription 237 00:11:01,081 --> 00:11:03,180 based pricing as SAS, they are wrong. 238 00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:04,230 That is not SAS. 239 00:11:04,410 --> 00:11:07,260 It sounds like it's software as a service. 240 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:09,783 No, it's subscription-based pricing. 241 00:11:09,813 --> 00:11:10,833 That's all it is. 242 00:11:11,013 --> 00:11:12,333 You're just paying for it differently. 243 00:11:12,333 --> 00:11:12,783 That's all. 244 00:11:12,783 --> 00:11:14,913 It is nothing about the software has changed. 245 00:11:15,853 --> 00:11:18,012 Okay, that's subscription-based pricing. 246 00:11:18,522 --> 00:11:23,382 Then there is SAS and SAS is to me, super easy to define 247 00:11:23,382 --> 00:11:24,642 it's everything we just didn't. 248 00:11:24,762 --> 00:11:26,562 We didn't just define. 249 00:11:26,862 --> 00:11:30,432 And that is you do not, it is not running on your hardware. 250 00:11:30,432 --> 00:11:34,422 You are not responsible for the application behind the thing you're doing. 251 00:11:34,632 --> 00:11:38,082 You're only responsible for telling the application to 252 00:11:38,082 --> 00:11:39,522 do what it is supposed to do. 253 00:11:39,792 --> 00:11:42,989 And my example would be Microsoft 365. 254 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,889 If you don't understand the difference between Exchange and paying for 255 00:11:46,889 --> 00:11:49,679 Exchange a thousand dollars a month. 256 00:11:50,189 --> 00:11:53,009 And by the way, in Curtis world, everything costs a 257 00:11:53,009 --> 00:11:53,819 thousand dollars a month. 258 00:11:53,886 --> 00:11:58,285 Except for a Tesla, which I recently found out costs more than that, but a thousand 259 00:11:58,285 --> 00:12:03,265 dollars a month for Exchange, that's running on your server and Microsoft 365, 260 00:12:03,265 --> 00:12:08,108 where you're paying five bucks a user times, however many users you're using. 261 00:12:08,108 --> 00:12:10,548 We're using a SAS app right now To 262 00:12:11,158 --> 00:12:11,898 To do this podcast 263 00:12:11,898 --> 00:12:15,338 To record this podcast ? You work for a company that has a SAS app that 264 00:12:15,338 --> 00:12:17,378 allows people to communicate together. 265 00:12:18,005 --> 00:12:21,215 I work for a company that has a SAS app that, that allows people to back 266 00:12:21,215 --> 00:12:22,745 up data from all over the place. 267 00:12:22,843 --> 00:12:28,879 that's a SAS app where I think the number one thing is that you are not responsible 268 00:12:28,879 --> 00:12:31,369 for managing any of the infrastructure. 269 00:12:31,471 --> 00:12:31,831 Yup. 270 00:12:32,641 --> 00:12:32,881 Yup. 271 00:12:33,331 --> 00:12:36,061 And you're not managing the application either. 272 00:12:36,061 --> 00:12:39,981 Like you're not installing updates for the application, so that's why not 273 00:12:39,981 --> 00:12:40,791 That is really important. 274 00:12:40,816 --> 00:12:41,756 You're not updates. 275 00:12:41,756 --> 00:12:42,406 The infrastructure. 276 00:12:43,036 --> 00:12:44,506 You just are using it. 277 00:12:44,506 --> 00:12:46,156 You always get the latest and greatest. 278 00:12:46,706 --> 00:12:48,026 You don't have to worry about anything. 279 00:12:49,701 --> 00:12:54,831 And I would argue that a proper SAS application that consumes 280 00:12:54,861 --> 00:12:56,181 storage and let's face it. 281 00:12:56,181 --> 00:12:57,591 They all consume storage. 282 00:12:59,031 --> 00:13:03,111 You also are not worried about that storage. 283 00:13:03,411 --> 00:13:05,571 You are not managing volumes. 284 00:13:05,672 --> 00:13:09,232 You're not worried about the fact, oh, I created this 10 terabyte file system 285 00:13:09,232 --> 00:13:10,792 and I'm getting close to filling it up. 286 00:13:10,822 --> 00:13:15,652 I need to go make another one or expand the one I have if you're doing anything 287 00:13:15,652 --> 00:13:17,644 that seems like that, that's not SAS. 288 00:13:17,889 --> 00:13:18,159 Yep. 289 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:20,019 Capacity management, all that stuff. 290 00:13:20,199 --> 00:13:24,399 Now I know there will be people who say by the way, even with some of 291 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:28,209 the SAS companies, I still install a piece of software on my laptop. 292 00:13:28,239 --> 00:13:29,469 Doesn't that make it not SAS? 293 00:13:29,499 --> 00:13:34,800 And I argue that is not yes, you do install a piece, but depending on 294 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,000 how the SAS application is and other pieces like the core functionality, 295 00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:40,280 you are not managing at all. 296 00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:41,350 Right. 297 00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:45,622 Well, to go back to your G suite, analogy, G suite is clearly SAS, but 298 00:13:45,622 --> 00:13:51,232 you can put a G drive syncing piece on your laptop and synchronize G drive to 299 00:13:51,232 --> 00:13:55,732 your laptop that doesn't make G drive, not SAS, the core infrastructure. 300 00:13:55,732 --> 00:13:56,855 It's the infrastructure. 301 00:13:56,855 --> 00:13:58,368 Cause that's where all the pain is. 302 00:13:58,371 --> 00:14:01,864 I would also argue a good SAS product should help you upgrade that thing. 303 00:14:01,864 --> 00:14:04,504 That's running on your laptop automatically, right? 304 00:14:05,884 --> 00:14:08,424 You should not be having to manage that. 305 00:14:08,424 --> 00:14:09,004 To manually. 306 00:14:09,099 --> 00:14:09,489 Yup. 307 00:14:09,669 --> 00:14:11,569 Does that seem? 308 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:14,509 I think that seems like a good definition for SaaS. 309 00:14:14,614 --> 00:14:14,944 Yeah. 310 00:14:15,013 --> 00:14:20,323 If you can't see the difference between exchange on-prem and Microsoft 365, I, 311 00:14:20,423 --> 00:14:24,626 they are two very different products and, and clearly some of Druva's 312 00:14:24,646 --> 00:14:26,716 competitors don't see It that way. 313 00:14:26,896 --> 00:14:30,949 And I mentioned Adobe, CEO of Adobe, like a year or so ago, it could have 314 00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:34,379 been two years we're in COVID times it could have been 17 years ago. 315 00:14:34,379 --> 00:14:35,729 It all blends together. 316 00:14:36,049 --> 00:14:36,649 it does. 317 00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:41,569 But he said that Adobe was going to be a hundred percent SAS by, 318 00:14:41,629 --> 00:14:43,549 and he gave like 2025 or something. 319 00:14:44,179 --> 00:14:47,869 And I'm like, but you're not any SAS at this point. 320 00:14:47,869 --> 00:14:51,499 And that's when I realized what he means is a hundred percent subscription pricing. 321 00:14:52,474 --> 00:14:56,284 Because you're not going to do Adobe premier pro in a 322 00:14:56,419 --> 00:14:57,139 In the cloud. 323 00:14:57,284 --> 00:15:02,229 maybe you could maybe, I don't want to rule it out, but it's just 324 00:15:02,229 --> 00:15:06,553 that, for example, with premiere pro, you've got, it's all the, 325 00:15:06,553 --> 00:15:08,487 it's all that raw video data, 326 00:15:08,652 --> 00:15:09,102 Yeah. 327 00:15:09,222 --> 00:15:13,572 I don't think you could process it fast enough in a web browser to be able to 328 00:15:13,624 --> 00:15:15,537 the processing would happened back there. 329 00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:16,999 But you got to send all the data 330 00:15:17,044 --> 00:15:18,544 . to send all the raw data. 331 00:15:18,634 --> 00:15:21,424 up to the cloud before you could do anything. 332 00:15:21,454 --> 00:15:24,664 And there are some apps I think, to do that, but I think what 333 00:15:24,664 --> 00:15:28,305 he means is subscription based pricing, which, and I think they've 334 00:15:28,305 --> 00:15:30,105 transitioned to it for the most part. 335 00:15:30,119 --> 00:15:33,779 I don't think you could buy perpetual licenses of Adobe at this point 336 00:15:33,779 --> 00:15:35,509 I think everything's all Creative Suite, yeah. 337 00:15:36,319 --> 00:15:39,039 It's all subscription, but I think this is the problem though, is 338 00:15:39,339 --> 00:15:43,493 people have adopted or stolen, right? 339 00:15:43,883 --> 00:15:51,083 The term SaaS to show that they are modern and that's what everyone else wants. 340 00:15:51,083 --> 00:15:55,913 And so for a lot of these companies who don't have a SAS solution or can't get 341 00:15:55,913 --> 00:16:00,080 to a SAS solution because of technology or other issues, They're like, oh 342 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,850 yeah, we'll call it SaaS, but we're really subscription-based pricing. 343 00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:06,000 Which is just one element typically of SaaS. 344 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:11,170 It's not the only element, but it's one of the important elements of SaaS. 345 00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:11,580 I would say 346 00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:14,730 So what was your second question? 347 00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:16,740 we already covered it. 348 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:20,610 That was around weather cloud was bigger than SaaS. 349 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:21,370 Oh yeah. 350 00:16:21,390 --> 00:16:21,780 Okay. 351 00:16:23,420 --> 00:16:24,590 The reason why 352 00:16:24,704 --> 00:16:25,934 After that tangent. 353 00:16:26,814 --> 00:16:34,366 Yeah, but I, what I want to talk about is that Druva's SAS based data protection. 354 00:16:34,366 --> 00:16:39,076 We're not the only ones, but I want to talk about this idea 355 00:16:40,431 --> 00:16:45,591 of using what I'm going to call a traditional on-prem product. 356 00:16:46,101 --> 00:16:54,921 Now I'm including a newer, traditional on-prem products, right? 357 00:16:55,021 --> 00:16:57,181 They wouldn't, they do not consider themselves traditional. 358 00:16:57,181 --> 00:16:58,713 I don't consider themselves traditional. 359 00:16:59,533 --> 00:17:07,783 But this is an on-prem product that backs up stuff. 360 00:17:08,103 --> 00:17:08,603 Right. 361 00:17:09,023 --> 00:17:16,193 What I don't understand is the concept of using an on-prem backup architecture 362 00:17:16,703 --> 00:17:19,793 to back up things that are in the cloud, 363 00:17:21,043 --> 00:17:21,313 Yeah, 364 00:17:21,523 --> 00:17:25,965 specifically SAS- based systems and native workloads. 365 00:17:26,225 --> 00:17:32,315 it does seem a little backwards, but I think here's my take on it. 366 00:17:32,645 --> 00:17:35,245 So yes, your application is running in the cloud. 367 00:17:36,295 --> 00:17:38,395 Now you have a couple options, right? 368 00:17:38,395 --> 00:17:40,855 You could say, okay, I'm going to dump it to the same cloud. 369 00:17:41,185 --> 00:17:42,925 I'm going to put it in some other cloud. 370 00:17:42,978 --> 00:17:45,008 Some customers are like, Hey, I already have a bunch of 371 00:17:45,008 --> 00:17:46,268 infrastructure running on prem. 372 00:17:46,268 --> 00:17:47,228 Let me just dump it to that. 373 00:17:47,888 --> 00:17:49,388 So it sits locally, right? 374 00:17:50,018 --> 00:17:52,688 And so it's in some other place that they can at least control. 375 00:17:52,688 --> 00:17:57,638 So they have control of that data versus something being in the cloud, which 376 00:17:58,058 --> 00:18:00,008 they may not always have controls over. 377 00:18:00,788 --> 00:18:01,008 Right. 378 00:18:01,008 --> 00:18:04,153 It could be one argument, another argument. 379 00:18:04,903 --> 00:18:08,563 And this is the one that I think falls apart is: okay, I have it 380 00:18:08,563 --> 00:18:12,465 locally in case, say, something happens to the cloud service, say 381 00:18:12,465 --> 00:18:16,185 something happens to Microsoft 365 and I can't get access to my mailbox. 382 00:18:16,545 --> 00:18:19,545 If I have the local copy on premises, I can spin it up. 383 00:18:19,545 --> 00:18:22,245 I can restore it or create a PST. 384 00:18:22,455 --> 00:18:25,185 I can download that PST onto a laptop. 385 00:18:25,215 --> 00:18:25,845 I could load it. 386 00:18:25,845 --> 00:18:28,425 I can get access to that critical deck that I need to. 387 00:18:28,492 --> 00:18:34,064 and I would say that's the argument for a separate backup system, but 388 00:18:34,504 --> 00:18:37,634 I don't see that as an argument for an on-prem backup system. 389 00:18:38,024 --> 00:18:38,364 I agree. 390 00:18:38,634 --> 00:18:41,874 what don't that gives you versus the other. 391 00:18:41,924 --> 00:18:45,788 There are people that, and by that, literally they want 392 00:18:45,788 --> 00:18:47,198 to touchy, feely the backup. 393 00:18:47,336 --> 00:18:49,076 they want it in their hot little hands. 394 00:18:49,806 --> 00:18:51,476 They want to see it. 395 00:18:51,766 --> 00:18:54,026 I'm sure you have a tape drive somewhere behind you, Curtis. 396 00:18:54,761 --> 00:18:58,291 The cloud is this, there's a line, I know you've never seen it, but there's a 397 00:18:58,291 --> 00:19:01,125 show called never have I ever on Netflix. 398 00:19:01,185 --> 00:19:07,581 And it's a teenage girl and the mom, there's a line in there where the teenage 399 00:19:07,581 --> 00:19:10,381 girl says, you won't pay for the cloud. 400 00:19:10,441 --> 00:19:13,072 And she's I refuse to pay for something that I can't see. 401 00:19:13,115 --> 00:19:17,705 it's a pretty good line in the show, but I think there are some who 402 00:19:18,215 --> 00:19:22,472 they've gone along with the cloud because it's really hard to argue 403 00:19:22,472 --> 00:19:25,742 about 365 versus on prem exchange. 404 00:19:25,832 --> 00:19:28,651 Once you've experienced one, it's really hard to experience 405 00:19:28,651 --> 00:19:31,646 the other, but still, have 406 00:19:31,646 --> 00:19:31,936 which is 407 00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:33,746 school way thinking. 408 00:19:33,863 --> 00:19:39,318 Because they've accepted the cloud, but they still want to touchy feelly. 409 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,690 They have accepted it in the same way that I have accepted that I am going to die. 410 00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:48,460 At some point they know it's going to happen. 411 00:19:48,721 --> 00:19:53,521 Death, taxes, and the cloud that we're adding the cloud to the list 412 00:19:53,521 --> 00:19:54,751 of things that are going to happen. 413 00:19:54,991 --> 00:19:56,311 They've accepted it. 414 00:19:56,461 --> 00:19:58,201 They haven't taken it into their hearts. 415 00:19:58,215 --> 00:19:58,787 They just know there's no way 416 00:19:58,787 --> 00:19:59,722 They're no longer in denial. 417 00:19:59,722 --> 00:20:02,614 No They just know it's going to happen and that there's just, they're 418 00:20:02,614 --> 00:20:07,024 like fine, but I want a copy of that stuff in my hot little hands. 419 00:20:07,534 --> 00:20:10,675 , there are some that just think that, every time anything goes wrong in the 420 00:20:10,675 --> 00:20:13,617 cloud, they're just, I told you, so there's, the problem with the cloud 421 00:20:13,647 --> 00:20:15,937 Because when everything blows up, you'll come crawling to 422 00:20:15,937 --> 00:20:17,197 me and I will be the hero. 423 00:20:17,717 --> 00:20:18,077 Yeah. 424 00:20:18,107 --> 00:20:18,717 exactly. 425 00:20:18,717 --> 00:20:21,297 For that person, there's literally nothing that I can say. 426 00:20:21,347 --> 00:20:23,147 they probably hung up 10 minutes ago. 427 00:20:23,837 --> 00:20:26,027 They're like, oh, he's going to talk SAS. 428 00:20:26,237 --> 00:20:27,037 I'm outta here. 429 00:20:27,059 --> 00:20:27,719 I'm going to go hold onto my 430 00:20:27,959 --> 00:20:33,959 Here's another argument that I've heard as well, which is for 431 00:20:33,959 --> 00:20:36,389 compliance or regulatory reasons. 432 00:20:36,809 --> 00:20:41,639 We might need to keep a copy on premises, or we cannot 433 00:20:41,639 --> 00:20:44,879 have the copy leave the cloud. 434 00:20:46,319 --> 00:20:48,969 And be replicated to another copy in the cloud. 435 00:20:49,084 --> 00:20:52,774 I'm going to make a broad sweeping statement, but I'm going to say that I'm 436 00:20:52,774 --> 00:20:54,724 sure there's a caveat that I don't know. 437 00:20:55,609 --> 00:21:00,979 I will say this .In my experience, which is extensive. 438 00:21:01,249 --> 00:21:05,869 Every time I've heard that there was a regulatory requirement that 439 00:21:05,869 --> 00:21:07,429 we have to have this or that. 440 00:21:08,304 --> 00:21:11,274 Stuff like this, where we have to have a copy on tape, or we have to 441 00:21:11,274 --> 00:21:16,854 have a copy on-prem I've never been able to be pointed at the actual 442 00:21:16,854 --> 00:21:18,504 regulation that they're talking about. 443 00:21:18,894 --> 00:21:21,924 In other words, I think a lot of them are just made up regulations. 444 00:21:23,104 --> 00:21:25,085 know that there are data sovereignty rules, 445 00:21:25,260 --> 00:21:25,590 . Yes. 446 00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:26,430 And that's the one. 447 00:21:27,150 --> 00:21:27,750 Like I could 448 00:21:27,774 --> 00:21:29,794 but not the same as what we're talking about here. 449 00:21:29,869 --> 00:21:34,639 Yeah, but I could imagine a case like a bank in Germany might say, look, we 450 00:21:34,639 --> 00:21:40,129 can use Microsoft 365 because maybe they have a presence in Germany, but 451 00:21:40,369 --> 00:21:45,049 if they needed to replicate the data, maybe Microsoft doesn't have a, another 452 00:21:45,409 --> 00:21:49,009 region or data center inside of Germany. 453 00:21:49,249 --> 00:21:51,229 And therefore we have to manually do something. 454 00:21:51,229 --> 00:21:53,549 Now, I don't know if that's a true scenario or not. 455 00:21:53,580 --> 00:21:58,860 I don't know where Microsoft has deployed their Microsoft 365 regions, but I could 456 00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:03,900 imagine a scenario like that in some countries where, because of the rules and 457 00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:08,277 regulations, they to do certain things. 458 00:22:08,327 --> 00:22:10,547 Data sovereignty would be a valid complaint. 459 00:22:11,017 --> 00:22:12,187 Germany is a great example. 460 00:22:12,187 --> 00:22:17,087 If you're using 365 and it runs in Germany and you're considering a SAS 461 00:22:17,087 --> 00:22:22,487 based backup service, and it runs in the US and it only runs in the US. 462 00:22:22,517 --> 00:22:23,537 That would be a dumb idea. 463 00:22:24,307 --> 00:22:26,106 First off, that would just be a dumb design. 464 00:22:26,286 --> 00:22:26,886 Second. 465 00:22:26,886 --> 00:22:29,166 It would not meet your data sovereignty requirements. 466 00:22:29,856 --> 00:22:32,826 So you definitely have to honor the data sovereignty requirements. 467 00:22:32,826 --> 00:22:33,156 But 468 00:22:33,641 --> 00:22:35,141 That doesn't mean you have to go on premises 469 00:22:35,151 --> 00:22:37,911 it just means don't pick that product that doesn't have. 470 00:22:38,591 --> 00:22:42,064 what's the word nexus within the requirements that you, need. 471 00:22:42,067 --> 00:22:43,447 That's a valid thing 472 00:22:43,527 --> 00:22:50,517 but that's probably like a 3% of the time situation where 97% 473 00:22:50,517 --> 00:22:52,907 of the time, you shouldn't have to worry about things like that. 474 00:22:53,267 --> 00:22:57,252 I can remember, for example, I was at a large, household 475 00:22:57,252 --> 00:22:58,872 name, pharmaceutical company. 476 00:22:59,952 --> 00:23:03,672 And I remember there was this person who was dictating the design. 477 00:23:03,672 --> 00:23:06,872 Like we have to make three tapes every Thursday and they have to 478 00:23:06,872 --> 00:23:08,402 put on the left side of the desk. 479 00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:09,894 I'm just Coming up with something here. 480 00:23:09,965 --> 00:23:12,420 And I was like, why are you doing that? 481 00:23:12,458 --> 00:23:13,928 That's hurting your design? 482 00:23:13,928 --> 00:23:15,638 And she's because of regulations. 483 00:23:16,118 --> 00:23:18,218 It's not my first pharma company. 484 00:23:18,218 --> 00:23:20,948 I don't know what you're talking about. 485 00:23:20,948 --> 00:23:22,988 And then she goes help me out, Steve. 486 00:23:22,988 --> 00:23:26,048 She said to this other guy, there's a regulation that says we have to do that. 487 00:23:26,959 --> 00:23:28,503 And he says Nope. 488 00:23:30,033 --> 00:23:33,363 So I'm just saying, I've seen this where time and time again, people say 489 00:23:33,423 --> 00:23:35,883 they're supposed to be doing something because of regulations and it turns 490 00:23:35,883 --> 00:23:37,743 out they weren't actually regulations. 491 00:23:37,773 --> 00:23:41,313 But if you do indeed have a regulation that says you have to have something 492 00:23:41,313 --> 00:23:44,479 on prem, first off, that regulation probably needs to be rewritten, 493 00:23:44,529 --> 00:23:48,419 because that was probably written 30 years ago before the cloud 494 00:23:48,419 --> 00:23:51,624 Or at least, or you might have a very different interpretation of 495 00:23:51,624 --> 00:23:53,094 what the regulation really means. 496 00:23:53,454 --> 00:23:55,764 And you should go talk to your compliance team about that. 497 00:23:56,604 --> 00:23:59,464 Yes, we are not giving legal advice. 498 00:24:00,254 --> 00:24:00,734 Yes, 499 00:24:00,814 --> 00:24:05,132 So I want to go so you're doing a pretty good job of playing devil's advocate 500 00:24:05,142 --> 00:24:05,942 I try. 501 00:24:06,014 --> 00:24:06,464 I try. 502 00:24:06,614 --> 00:24:07,544 That's why me around. 503 00:24:08,134 --> 00:24:10,484 Well you are the devil. 504 00:24:10,527 --> 00:24:11,417 so, and 505 00:24:12,087 --> 00:24:14,097 I do have a beard. 506 00:24:14,118 --> 00:24:15,678 I'm saying, look at me. 507 00:24:15,828 --> 00:24:18,708 What do you think It's not nearly as long as yours, 508 00:24:19,908 --> 00:24:20,928 It's looking good. 509 00:24:20,928 --> 00:24:22,428 It's starting to fell in better. 510 00:24:23,328 --> 00:24:24,408 It's because Mrs. 511 00:24:24,408 --> 00:24:27,978 Preston asked for a beard, saw this photo of me, where I had a beard 512 00:24:27,978 --> 00:24:29,538 once and she thought it looked good. 513 00:24:29,538 --> 00:24:32,689 And so she told me to grow it out, but I am under specific instructions 514 00:24:32,899 --> 00:24:34,639 to not grow it out like yours. 515 00:24:34,834 --> 00:24:36,214 Come on Curtis. 516 00:24:36,874 --> 00:24:37,744 Just do it. 517 00:24:37,774 --> 00:24:38,944 Do it just wait two years. 518 00:24:39,644 --> 00:24:44,124 There will be no "yeard" in this house and there will certainly not be a "tweard". 519 00:24:44,144 --> 00:24:45,712 How close are you to your tweard? 520 00:24:45,795 --> 00:24:47,715 two years will be in, I think, two weeks. 521 00:24:49,565 --> 00:24:50,165 I just can't. 522 00:24:50,165 --> 00:24:51,138 We should have a party. 523 00:24:51,178 --> 00:24:52,408 I'll bring my sheers over. 524 00:24:52,493 --> 00:24:59,003 so what I want to say is to talk about the things you have to do. 525 00:24:59,243 --> 00:25:02,063 If you're going to use an on-prem system. 526 00:25:03,373 --> 00:25:06,163 To back up a cloud-based resource. 527 00:25:06,183 --> 00:25:09,971 So assuming, what it is you want, that you have 365, you have Salesforce, you 528 00:25:09,971 --> 00:25:12,971 know that you have AWS or Azure or GCP. 529 00:25:16,376 --> 00:25:20,306 The first thing you have to do is you have to size that environment. 530 00:25:20,576 --> 00:25:26,126 And while that's a perfectly normal thing to do in the data center, not a perfectly 531 00:25:26,126 --> 00:25:27,996 normal thing to do in the SAS world. 532 00:25:28,006 --> 00:25:29,416 How big is my thing? 533 00:25:29,416 --> 00:25:31,797 it's 350 users, right? 534 00:25:31,891 --> 00:25:33,531 How many gigabytes is that? 535 00:25:33,651 --> 00:25:33,751 Right? 536 00:25:33,751 --> 00:25:34,571 Why do you care?? 537 00:25:35,081 --> 00:25:35,896 Why do you care? 538 00:25:35,926 --> 00:25:38,481 because I'm about to go design a backup system. 539 00:25:38,532 --> 00:25:40,902 And that's the first number that I need. 540 00:25:41,172 --> 00:25:42,132 You need that number. 541 00:25:42,132 --> 00:25:44,472 You also need the daily change number. 542 00:25:44,472 --> 00:25:46,782 You are never going to get that number. 543 00:25:47,682 --> 00:25:51,732 That is literally not in anybody's database anywhere. 544 00:25:52,437 --> 00:25:56,997 The only way you're going to find that number out is to back up the system 545 00:25:57,417 --> 00:26:02,607 and then back it up again and see what the number is every day, which 546 00:26:02,607 --> 00:26:06,957 means that the two numbers that you need to design a decent backup system, 547 00:26:07,477 --> 00:26:09,594 you might be able to get one of them. 548 00:26:09,624 --> 00:26:11,334 There's no way you're getting the second one. 549 00:26:11,594 --> 00:26:11,954 Yep. 550 00:26:12,654 --> 00:26:15,040 And so right off you're handicapped, 551 00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:15,880 Yep. 552 00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:21,180 And then what are you going to deal with in terms of like the growth, because 553 00:26:21,415 --> 00:26:23,635 another thing you're also going to have to plan for your infrastructure because 554 00:26:23,635 --> 00:26:27,475 you want to plan a bit ahead, so sure you have users and you have the change 555 00:26:27,475 --> 00:26:29,605 rate, but what does growth look like? 556 00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:34,719 And remember, this is the same reasons that you went to 365, 557 00:26:34,719 --> 00:26:36,039 they apply on your backup system. 558 00:26:36,669 --> 00:26:39,175 It's a pain to administer an on-prem system. 559 00:26:39,175 --> 00:26:42,565 Maybe you're buying a more modern system and it has a scale out architecture 560 00:26:42,565 --> 00:26:44,965 and it's easy to add capacity to it. 561 00:26:45,095 --> 00:26:48,035 Have you tried adding capacity during the pandemic? 562 00:26:48,035 --> 00:26:49,325 in COVID times Curtis? 563 00:26:49,915 --> 00:26:51,445 What Yeah. 564 00:26:51,505 --> 00:26:53,275 I wasn't even thinking about that, but Yeah. 565 00:26:53,335 --> 00:26:57,517 So setting that aside, adding capacity to your system may be easier 566 00:26:57,517 --> 00:27:02,257 than it used to be, but you still, you have to manage that capacity. 567 00:27:02,257 --> 00:27:05,227 You have to know what you need, buy it in advance again. 568 00:27:05,227 --> 00:27:08,767 Right now you have to buy it way in advance because who knows what sort of 569 00:27:09,127 --> 00:27:10,927 truckers situation's going to be going on. 570 00:27:11,797 --> 00:27:14,322 We were short on truckers and now they're like striking. 571 00:27:14,352 --> 00:27:18,372 So who knows how long it will take you to get what you need. 572 00:27:19,371 --> 00:27:23,460 and then the next thing is, so you've designed the system, right? 573 00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:25,800 Let's say you designed it, you built it big and beefy enough 574 00:27:25,820 --> 00:27:27,110 to back all this stuff up. 575 00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:28,070 Let's say you're good at that. 576 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:36,040 We are living in a new world that is completely foreign to what I remember when 577 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,510 I was admining backup systems and that is you really need to secure this system. 578 00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:47,040 And I would argue, it needs to be more secure than the rest of your data center. 579 00:27:47,770 --> 00:27:49,884 does that seem like a valid statement? 580 00:27:50,909 --> 00:27:56,216 I agree because that contains the keys to the kingdom and 581 00:27:56,216 --> 00:27:58,016 that's your last- resort copy. 582 00:27:58,016 --> 00:28:01,856 And so you need to make sure nothing can impact that. 583 00:28:03,276 --> 00:28:09,246 And so you should be looking at a backup software products that are, 584 00:28:09,276 --> 00:28:12,276 now, this is assuming you're going to design this on-prem system, right? 585 00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:16,176 So you need a backup software product that does not require root or administrator. 586 00:28:16,176 --> 00:28:18,726 Cause you're going to shut down root or administrator. 587 00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:20,376 You're going to disable RDP. 588 00:28:20,376 --> 00:28:21,936 You're going to disable SSH. 589 00:28:22,206 --> 00:28:24,991 And you're like, but that means I would have to go on-prem to 590 00:28:24,991 --> 00:28:26,821 manage my on-prem backup system. 591 00:28:27,001 --> 00:28:27,511 Yes. 592 00:28:27,541 --> 00:28:29,731 That's exactly what I'm saying, right? 593 00:28:29,761 --> 00:28:30,211 Yes. 594 00:28:30,241 --> 00:28:33,451 That's a pain in the butt, but that's the only way you're 595 00:28:33,451 --> 00:28:34,531 going to secure this thing. 596 00:28:35,161 --> 00:28:39,339 And if you disagree with me and you're going to allow administrator 597 00:28:39,339 --> 00:28:41,605 action, then you're going to do MFA. 598 00:28:41,605 --> 00:28:43,675 You've got MFA on that. 599 00:28:43,735 --> 00:28:44,545 You're going to have to do that. 600 00:28:44,545 --> 00:28:46,135 We didn't have to do MFA back in the day. 601 00:28:46,345 --> 00:28:49,525 This is just for the root or administrator account. 602 00:28:49,525 --> 00:28:50,965 That's behind your backup system. 603 00:28:51,375 --> 00:28:55,245 I was just wondering though, I know you talked about disabling SSH and 604 00:28:55,245 --> 00:28:59,278 all the rest, but you could also do like the console port diags right. 605 00:29:00,013 --> 00:29:00,343 yes. 606 00:29:00,343 --> 00:29:01,543 Like a KVM, you mean? 607 00:29:01,598 --> 00:29:01,988 Yeah. 608 00:29:02,718 --> 00:29:03,067 Yes. 609 00:29:03,097 --> 00:29:06,367 You KVM, but then you got to secure the crap out of that thing. 610 00:29:07,308 --> 00:29:07,878 Um, 611 00:29:07,956 --> 00:29:10,866 But that should be part of your, what the IDRAC system and all the 612 00:29:10,866 --> 00:29:12,366 rest to allow remote management. 613 00:29:13,336 --> 00:29:14,416 Exactly right. 614 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,975 and I would still argue that there's a case to be made for not making 615 00:29:17,975 --> 00:29:22,295 that a part of the normal world, because the normal world gets 616 00:29:22,295 --> 00:29:23,825 attacked, it should be separate. 617 00:29:23,867 --> 00:29:28,067 And along with that, it, I do not think that your root or administrator stuff 618 00:29:28,067 --> 00:29:29,747 should be part of active directory. 619 00:29:30,482 --> 00:29:33,602 I do not think that the user IDs that are used to log into your 620 00:29:33,602 --> 00:29:38,205 backup system, the server, not the root or admin, but the backup admin. 621 00:29:38,835 --> 00:29:41,235 Hopefully that should be a separate account, right? 622 00:29:41,475 --> 00:29:41,775 Yes. 623 00:29:41,805 --> 00:29:45,115 I think that should be a separate account from your active directory because if 624 00:29:45,135 --> 00:29:48,475 active directory is compromised, you could then compromise the backup system. 625 00:29:48,475 --> 00:29:51,865 , and then there's the whole thing of securing the backup storage itself. 626 00:29:52,287 --> 00:29:55,560 you spent quite a lot of time at, that other company. 627 00:29:55,669 --> 00:30:00,889 We used to just NFS- Mount or SMB Mount those to the system, but that is insecure. 628 00:30:01,339 --> 00:30:04,521 So there is a multiple protocol ways, To 629 00:30:04,667 --> 00:30:08,387 There's what they call data domain boost, which allowed protocol access. 630 00:30:08,387 --> 00:30:12,377 You would embed a SDK into your backup agent. 631 00:30:12,707 --> 00:30:16,067 It would know how to talk over this very specific protocol to 632 00:30:16,067 --> 00:30:18,467 securely, write to a data domain. 633 00:30:18,467 --> 00:30:22,817 And so it wasn't just widely available over NFS or SMB. 634 00:30:23,117 --> 00:30:28,189 And the other mechanism would be also to use Fibre Channel so 635 00:30:28,189 --> 00:30:29,509 connectivity over Fibre Channel. 636 00:30:29,529 --> 00:30:34,349 So it shows up as a disk, which is also more secure than NFS or SMB, 637 00:30:34,370 --> 00:30:37,279 I would argue that still does it doesn't solve my problem. 638 00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:38,509 I don't like that method. 639 00:30:38,509 --> 00:30:42,539 I don't want it to appear as a file on the file system, on the server at all. 640 00:30:42,589 --> 00:30:44,099 Yes that wouldn't solve that problem. 641 00:30:44,099 --> 00:30:47,489 And then the third method is a virtual tape library or. 642 00:30:48,895 --> 00:30:50,675 Which you could then access, 643 00:30:50,675 --> 00:30:54,020 that makes it, a little bit harder to attack it. 644 00:30:54,050 --> 00:30:57,080 Doesn't make it all you need is just some specialized software 645 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,400 to blow away all those tapes. 646 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,677 But, I would argue that the only secure way to do it as Boost or something like 647 00:31:04,367 --> 00:31:09,622 where it doesn't show up as anything accessible in the operating system, 648 00:31:09,622 --> 00:31:15,262 which means that if the backup server is hacked, then it can't access the backups. 649 00:31:15,427 --> 00:31:15,637 Yeah. 650 00:31:15,693 --> 00:31:20,993 now I will say that in order to make it convenient for people, Data Domain did 651 00:31:20,993 --> 00:31:28,073 release what they call boost file system, which allows a, basically allows the 652 00:31:28,073 --> 00:31:33,533 boost protocol to be used, but enables a NFS Mount point on your local device. 653 00:31:34,848 --> 00:31:35,418 Okay. 654 00:31:35,838 --> 00:31:39,108 And that would then fail your criteria right. 655 00:31:39,108 --> 00:31:42,018 Where it's not secure because it's always available. 656 00:31:42,018 --> 00:31:42,648 It's sitting there. 657 00:31:42,648 --> 00:31:43,698 Anyone can access it. 658 00:31:44,428 --> 00:31:44,668 Yeah. 659 00:31:44,698 --> 00:31:47,458 So all you need to do is figure out which one of these seven different 660 00:31:47,458 --> 00:31:51,388 ways to connect your backup storage is the appropriate one and pick the 661 00:31:51,388 --> 00:31:54,118 most, I think you should pick the most secure one, but it's probably 662 00:31:54,118 --> 00:31:55,528 also the most complicated one. 663 00:31:56,728 --> 00:32:04,048 And I guess the point I'm making here is why would you do that? 664 00:32:04,127 --> 00:32:08,752 If you didn't have to do that, why would you do that? 665 00:32:08,792 --> 00:32:11,732 If you use a true SaaS product, you should not have to worry 666 00:32:11,732 --> 00:32:13,932 about capacity management. 667 00:32:13,932 --> 00:32:14,872 You don't have to worry about any of that. 668 00:32:15,072 --> 00:32:16,932 You don't have to size the back end. 669 00:32:17,742 --> 00:32:19,913 You do but only from a licensing perspective. 670 00:32:20,173 --> 00:32:23,063 Yeah, because you need to still care about your costs, but 671 00:32:23,066 --> 00:32:26,006 you still have to pay for it and you could see you could get it wrong. 672 00:32:26,006 --> 00:32:28,046 And that just means you need to pay a little bit more. 673 00:32:28,316 --> 00:32:30,416 You don't have to go redesign your storage system. 674 00:32:31,106 --> 00:32:33,896 You don't have to worry about the bandwidth to back it up. 675 00:32:33,926 --> 00:32:37,526 You don't have to worry about that whole thing of not knowing 676 00:32:37,526 --> 00:32:39,086 how big an incremental backup is. 677 00:32:39,286 --> 00:32:39,616 Yep. 678 00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:39,859 doesn't matter. 679 00:32:39,859 --> 00:32:40,237 It's not your problem. 680 00:32:40,237 --> 00:32:40,996 Cause you don't care. 681 00:32:41,296 --> 00:32:41,596 Yep. 682 00:32:41,786 --> 00:32:42,146 Yeah. 683 00:32:42,766 --> 00:32:50,086 I would argue though, that you may need to care just to make sure you're able to 684 00:32:50,086 --> 00:32:52,922 meet your backup windows, And your RPOs. 685 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,010 I think recovery testing from SAS to SAS is just as important 686 00:32:57,010 --> 00:32:58,720 as recovery testing elsewhere. 687 00:32:59,140 --> 00:32:59,980 So I would agree. 688 00:33:00,460 --> 00:33:05,642 And, but I guess what you're saying is you can't just ignore how big your system is. 689 00:33:05,673 --> 00:33:07,723 and I think that's true either side. 690 00:33:08,603 --> 00:33:10,963 But I'm just saying from a capacity management persective 691 00:33:10,963 --> 00:33:15,765 perspective, You just have to pay for however many users your system has. 692 00:33:15,765 --> 00:33:15,965 And done. 693 00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:16,590 Yep. 694 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,457 And it, what's great is it's matches the exact same way that 695 00:33:20,997 --> 00:33:24,387 you're actually licensing the production application itself. 696 00:33:24,387 --> 00:33:25,497 Like Microsoft 365. 697 00:33:26,352 --> 00:33:29,263 Otherwise, it's so hard to like, be like, Hey, how much front-end 698 00:33:29,283 --> 00:33:31,544 storage this for 500 users. 699 00:33:31,544 --> 00:33:35,432 And you're guesstimating and being like, I think it's 10 gigabytes, a user. 700 00:33:35,432 --> 00:33:37,892 And I hope I'm right, because otherwise I'm going to need to 701 00:33:37,892 --> 00:33:42,065 buy extra capacity or I bought too much and spent too much money. 702 00:33:42,065 --> 00:33:43,937 Which is probably what you will do. 703 00:33:43,937 --> 00:33:45,797 You probably will overestimate. 704 00:33:45,827 --> 00:33:47,747 That's what we always did with backup systems. 705 00:33:47,747 --> 00:33:53,267 You always overestimated and you typically buy way more than you need. 706 00:33:53,777 --> 00:33:58,929 And, but again, with the SAS world, with a true SAS product, you buy and 707 00:33:58,929 --> 00:34:02,169 pay for only what you need and use. 708 00:34:03,259 --> 00:34:08,669 To me, it just makes sense to backup SAS, to SAS, like you bought off 709 00:34:08,669 --> 00:34:12,001 on the value of SAS for, say, 365. 710 00:34:12,421 --> 00:34:14,941 Why would you want to go backwards in time? 711 00:34:15,361 --> 00:34:17,431 You're in the 21st century with your mail app. 712 00:34:17,461 --> 00:34:21,211 Why would you want to be in the 20th century with your backup app? 713 00:34:21,248 --> 00:34:21,718 I just don't. 714 00:34:21,718 --> 00:34:22,759 don't, I don't understand. 715 00:34:24,139 --> 00:34:24,466 Yeah. 716 00:34:24,466 --> 00:34:27,851 so anyway, I knew you'd be be a good devil's advocate for me though. 717 00:34:28,381 --> 00:34:28,921 Sorry. 718 00:34:31,631 --> 00:34:33,611 So why have you here to give me this? 719 00:34:33,641 --> 00:34:37,541 Give me the sass and to advise me on dust collection design. 720 00:34:39,296 --> 00:34:40,206 Anytime Curtis. 721 00:34:40,206 --> 00:34:41,026 I'm always here. 722 00:34:42,456 --> 00:34:42,876 Yeah. 723 00:34:42,936 --> 00:34:43,326 Yeah. 724 00:34:43,386 --> 00:34:44,916 You and I w we're not going anywhere. 725 00:34:44,976 --> 00:34:45,366 Literally. 726 00:34:45,786 --> 00:34:48,827 here only question is, we're on our computer all the time. 727 00:34:48,827 --> 00:34:50,237 It's just, are we talking to you? 728 00:34:50,567 --> 00:34:51,347 We're talking to work. 729 00:34:51,497 --> 00:34:52,517 Are we watching YouTube. 730 00:34:53,897 --> 00:34:54,227 Yeah. 731 00:34:54,587 --> 00:34:55,013 YouTube. 732 00:34:55,081 --> 00:34:56,401 I'm watching YouTube even right now. 733 00:34:57,991 --> 00:34:58,951 you probably are. 734 00:34:59,581 --> 00:34:59,791 All right. 735 00:34:59,832 --> 00:35:00,942 thanks to our listeners. 736 00:35:00,972 --> 00:35:05,742 We love, got ot, gotta shout out to you and remember to subscribe 737 00:35:05,772 --> 00:35:07,812 so that you can restore it all.