I don't see anything as a get rich quick.

The only way to build true, sustainable, multi-generational wealth is through

discipline and following proven systems.

How can unconventional financial strategies revolutionize your wealth?

Welcome to Seat Go Create, where today we're joined by mc, lobster

renowned expert in alternative wealth strategies and asset investing.

Mc is the visionary behind producers wealth, helping business

owners nationwide to craft.

Sophisticated financial plans.

He's also the host of the Cashflow Ninja Podcast, recognized

by Entrepreneur Magazine and listened to in over 180 countries.

Tune in today is mc Unveils powerful insights on creating financial freedom and

securing a lasting legacy for your family.

Mc, we almost got off track talking about RVing, but welcome to Seat Go Create.

Thank you so much for having me, Tim.

Look, I've been looking forward to this and yes, I love the RV conversation

we already had, so looking forward to jumping into many topics with you.

I wanna talk financial stuff.

I wanna talk the alternative investing.

Got a copy of your book here.

We'll talk about this as we go along.

But, let's just jump into the deep end of the pool here.

And first question, I'm gonna let you choose, would you rather answer,

what do you do, you know, kind of typical networking question.

You're out and about, you bump into people on a plane or something.

What do you do?

Or.

Who are you that might have a deeper component to it?

Pick, pick it and go ahead and answer.

I love it.

We're starting deep right away.

I would answer who I am.

So, I'm a husband to Megan.

I'm a father to my two lovely children, Christian and Josephine.

I'm just an individual that is always looking for more freedom,

and striving for freedom in all areas of my life and sovereignty.

it's kind of powerful to have a combination of both of those.

I grew up in South Africa, and I've been in the US since 2001, I

grew up during a very interesting time in the country's history.

So as a young man, where we went from one.

Type of former government.

You had the Aport regime all the way through to, you know, the first

democratically elected, government.

So I still remember as a young man when Nelson Mandela was released from prison.

So I lived through all of that.

I saw all of that, and I saw the different changes, which was a gift as a young man

really to, to see for what it is, right.

That, you know, there's a lot of different ways to look at something

and, you know, seeking the truth become a passion of mine too.

You know, and I would, I would say that I'm a truth seeker because I, I'd love to.

Get all the different narratives that are out there, all the different

story, his story, you know, everybody's got a story and then figure out

where the truth kind of lies.

And, you know, being able to do that has served me well in other

areas of my life when it comes to health, when it comes to finances,

relationships, you know, how those work.

and yeah, so I would say that, you know, I love to have fun.

I love adventure.

I'm always learning, always seeking the truth, and I'm just trying to be

the best husband to Megan and the best father, to Christian and Josephine.

Have you always been a truth seeker?

I mean, can you recall that going back to, how old were you in

2001 when you came to the States?

I was 20, I just turned 22.

so I would say it started in South Africa because, you know, it was

very, very interesting you had one way of, society looked one way and

you operated one way, and there was.

The truth in society at that point, then it completely flipped on its head.

So at that stage you're like, well, what is the truth?

Because these people are saying that these people are saying the other thing.

Then there's, you know, other viewpoints on it too.

so where does it lie?

you know, and I think at that stage I started to question everything,

regardless of where it came from.

And I'm like, I gotta figure this out for myself.

'cause I have a sneaking suspicion that we're not getting the full

story from anybody and it's kind of our job to put it all together.

And that was my passion really for history, economics,

and eventually finances.

Well, I gotta figure out how the world works to figure out how, the society

that I'm living in actually works.

And if you put it all together, the three lenses that have really served

me well, the first thing is history and there's different types of history.

Everybody's got a different version of it, you know, and these days

there are so many of them out there.

So you gotta look at all the different sides of the story I kind of figure

out where does the highest probability lie of what actually happened?

And then the second thing then becomes economics.

And it's a boring subject at school for people to learn.

And you know, God bless you if you did it at university too.

Like I did, very boring of how it's presented.

But if you actually think about it, it's one of the most important topics.

' cause it's how a society functions, what's happening inside of our

households, our neighborhoods, our communities, our societies.

and there's different ebbs and flows in an economy.

So if you put that kind of with the history, you get a clearer

picture of what actually happened.

And then you start to look at the financial system,

the global financial system.

You know, you have financial systems.

then you start to really get a good picture of what actually happened.

And I'll give an example.

So a lot of people in the US learned about the Louisiana purchase.

The French sold off Louisiana to Thomas Jefferson, and everybody's

very well familiar with that.

But if you take a step back and say, well, why did that happen?

They didn't, you know, did they just sell it off?

Why didn't they just keep it, you know, and people would still be speaking

French there, and you'd probably have the same amount of fun and, you

know, great cuisine as everything.

But why did that actually happen?

If you look at history, well, you had two.

Up and coming superpowers competing for the world, which

is all the trade routes, right?

So you had Great Britain, the British.

The British, and you had the French and the big power play there

was, and they were really bumping heads in on world trade all over.

'cause if you can control all the trade routes, that's actually the

number one thing of a superpower to control all the trade.

What is the number one role of a military, of a superpower to protect

global trade, all of the trade routes.

So those guys came to a head, they started to go to war.

And everybody of course, knows about the defeat that Napoleon had at Waterloo.

That's a very, very well known one.

Well, Napoleon was the one that sold the Louisiana, so why did he sell it?

So, if you look at history, there's some economics behind all of it.

But what's the financial side?

The Battle of Waterloo is probably one of the biggest, most decisive battles,

probably in the last 250 years in the world, because at that stage, it

was actually a battle to set up the global financial system for the world.

At that point, that defeat that Napoleon added Waterloo Gold, gold

were exchanged in vaults in London.

London became the number one financial center in the world after that.

Well, Napoleon sold off Louisiana because he went to war with

the banking families in Europe.

So there's a couple ways that you can fund a war.

You can raise money from.

Your citizens through taxes or you know, everybody's familiar.

If you're a little bit older or maybe you read about it,

war bonds was a thing, right?

And the other, you could raise it from the citizens.

The other thing is could maybe sell us some assets or

natural resources and so forth.

and then the other thing is you could borrow the money.

go to someone and well, where would they borrow it from?

Well, the banking families in Europe at that stage, and they were

very much put against Napoleon.

So he looked at this, I'm like, I don't have an option.

I'm going to war with these guys.

these guys want me out 'cause I'm a threat to them.

Right?

He was a threat to the existing order at that stage.

So I've, I've gotta self-fund it, so I don't wanna raise taxes.

'cause at that stage, the French were also kind of in an economic slump.

So I gotta go and sold off, sell us some assets.

So when you put that all together, those three lenses,

now you have a clearer idea of.

What possibly happened and how this played out, right?

Instead of if you just had the history.

That's one thing.

If you just had the economics, that's one thing.

If you just had the financial thing.

But I think like that really is where my truth seeking started was.

You know, growing up in South Africa, realizing early as a young man,

like the world is not as presented.

There's a lot of things that people are not telling me, and

there's a lot of narratives which are conflicting with each other.

So let's figure out what actually happened and how things work, right?

Well, it's also usually more than just a paragraph in a history book,

which is Louisiana Purchase is

Yep,

and that makes it very transactional.

Like there was a transaction, America decided, you know, young country.

With probably barely any money themselves.

So we're gonna acquire this piece of land from this country.

Now, there was more going on, just like there's more going on right now

that you and I are gonna discuss a little bit later when we talk about

tariffs, when we especially trade, when we talk about other things happening.

I wanna back up a little bit.

I was in and out of South Africa probably three or four times in like 95, 96, 97.

Sounds like that was the time, maybe that you were around your teenage

years or something like that.

I would love for us to, before we get too far away from this.

I think, we've got audiences all over like you do over at, cashflow

Ninja, but we have a heavy US audience

Yep.

I at times am concerned that US has these blinders on and they

don't grasp bigger picture things.

So I would love for you to give us a bit of contrast between some things that we

call a word you used in your introduction.

Freedom.

What you saw up to your first 20 something years of life, and you saw a

couple variations of it too, by the way.

You probably saw a pre 19 90, 91 version when you know Mandela and others, there's

transitions and then you probably saw another transition when you came here.

Just talk about wherever you wanna go with it.

Contrast.

What you saw growing up there, and then maybe what you saw in oh one when you

came over to the US at 22 years old.

Yeah, that's a very, very good question.

when you, you know, I remember too, we had a state controlled media and newspapers

and they pretended to be independent too.

Right?

But all in all, it's a system and it's a system of information control.

So what you see on television, what you see in the media, what is

allowable opinion, and then also what is taught in universities and schools.

You know, the apartheid years that I grew in, the same kind of thing.

So it's different what I saw when it comes to freedom, and, and, and you know, I've

a lot of libertarian and kind of like, you know, a little bit of ancap beliefs too.

I think everybody at heart is that who doesn't want to be free, right?

And just able to pursue their own, their own dreams and their own lives.

and let, let everybody figure theirs out for themselves.

the control is a big thing that I witnessed as a young man and even in

South Africa where you went from one totalitarian regime, you kind of had that

window, which was kind of the honeymoon period where Mandela was released.

He got into office.

He was in and out as president.

And it was basically the honeymoon period of South Africa at that stage.

And then after, Nelson Mandela too, you had a different type of character

coming in, where the one was more, fascist of the apartheid regime.

Now you had a much more kind of like communist leaning of

these characters coming in.

So consequently in South Africa over the past 30 years.

And the reason why it's in the headlines is because you have actually

had people since Mandela left office, and he is of course, has paused away.

And there was a brief period of that honeymoon period where everything was

going in the right direction, but these other cost of characters took over.

And, you know, now you look 30 years back and you look at where the country's at.

And a lot of the stuff, I mean, if you think of, the economy, just the

infrastructure and systems that.

Most countries rely on, you know, transportation

trains and planes and roads.

You know, we have trains that don't even run anymore over there.

Right.

So it's like the infrastructure that everybody depends on to get

this machine run up and running.

A lot of that is gone.

a lot of the systems have been destroyed.

I mean, South Africa used to be in the top tier of gold producers in the world.

I don't even think they're in the top 10 right now.

the production with, as far as diamonds, other natural resources, mining.

It's a very big industry there that has suffered.

so the economy there, and of course the unemployment is out of control.

you have, massive wealth inequality, because the upward mobility there is

capped, In contrast, what I saw in the United States where, I always say people

that were born in the us you don't know it yet, but like, you literally want

a lottery ticket because the upward mobility compared to there is, night and

day here, there's nothing stopping you.

you have people that come from, public housing or projects, in

New York City like Damon John, that's, basically a billionaire.

That that's, that's a very, very rare, Very, a very rare thing and

almost impossible in South Africa.

'cause even in in cities where there is wealth inequality, there is access to

services and systems and infrastructure, which they don't have there.

So that's led to a, you know, a lot of people leaving, and

going, going different places.

The taxation's also out of control.

So yeah, I mean, as far as freedom goes, yeah, you have to be cognizant

of the control, the control that's in place and that governments

most of them have, have out there.

They want to control the narratives, they want to control

the media, the stuff that you read.

And they want to basically, own all of the information and control it so that

they can create the reality for you.

Right.

Especially in the past decade, I've seen in the United States, the opportunity

that exists here, if you apply yourself and you bring your base talents and

your efforts and you work your butt off, the upward mobility is still unmatched.

I haven't found any other place in the world that has the same upward

mobility, than the United States.

Yeah, as we traveled, there was a period of time, 10, 15 years ago

where my wife and I were traveling.

We did Australia, New Zealand with something in the back of

our mind going, you know what?

We might leave the us.

Nah, the US is still, I. We got issues and we'll talk about a

couple things here in just a second.

We've got issues.

I wanna say this though real quick about South Africa.

In fact, it's interesting.

I was in the hot tub last night here in our resort.

We're in with a gentleman who had a background, he's retired now.

Been the mining industry, and he had spent some time in the gold industry.

He ran.

Those top operations in South Africa.

We had discussion about it.

I had met a guy from Tanzania who gave me some tanzanite years ago.

I didn't even know what it was.

I threw it in my shoe and went through customs without even knowing

I had all this tanzanite with me.

But, I always thought, and I, and I do believe this about almost everywhere,

that there are beautiful places.

Resources and beautiful people almost anywhere, and I think that South Africa

has all of those in abundance, but yet they struggle to make that work.

The people there are incredible.

I mean, some of the most resilient people on the face of the planet.

The places are incredible.

the tour, just that with tourism alone, I mean, it should be a home run.

It should, I mean that should be the place to go to.

And you know, there's a number of other South Africans that have that,

that have shared the same views that, that I'm sharing right now.

Someone like Gary Player, the, the, the golfer, it's been saying this for years.

He's like, we got everything here.

If we, if we find the right manner, and to put this all together.

It pa it'd be paradise, but they just, they just haven't.

So, yeah, and, and of course, you know, it's been in the news lately that, you

know, there's a lot of, racial laws.

There's been a lot of racial laws in place, you know,

too, by the way, for a while.

But it's just getting worse and worse.

and obviously, you know, when it went from the apartheid regime over to the new

government, they had a new constitution.

It was a great constitution, you know, it was something that was held

up to the rest of the world as look.

Look what they were able to accomplish all parties, you know, were

involved in putting that together.

it was fantastic.

But ever since then, like I said, when Mandela was gone, the honeymoon was over

and it was just one racial law after another racial law that's been passed.

So you kind of have now, you know, where you had one set

of racial laws on apartheid.

You have the exact same thing, but just the opposite under the current government.

And that's causing a lot of trouble for investment and foreign investment.

And that's

Mm-hmm.

the things that Elon Musk talked about and just pointed out of

this, is what's actually going on.

obviously it made some headlines and the US took some, made some

decisions of how to treat, a regime with certain racial laws on the books.

And every, everybody's got a story and everybody's story's unique, but.

You know, you mentioned opportunity is one of the reasons people come here, but

you know, obviously at the age of 22, 23, 4 years ago, you made the decision.

Was it, was it your entire family?

Was it just Mc?

Tell me just a little bit of what it's like to make a decision to leave the

country you've lived in, grown up in, et cetera, have probably have family

and roots and go somewhere different.

Just talk a little bit about that.

I don't, I think a lot of people don't grasp.

The massive decision making that's involved with that.

Yeah, I finished up university in South Africa, and after that I traveled a bit.

I ended up in the US and, I ended up playing here in a rugby league,

up until 2007 When I was here the first couple of years, I said,

this is a fantastic opportunity.

I'm gonna play in the league.

I get to see the world meet some amazing people.

The rugby community is just quite incredible.

You have everyone from lawyers, doctors, every phase of life, white

collar, blue collar, everything is in a rugby team, right?

And a rugby club, which makes it so much fun.

but a great and great community.

So I traveled quite a bit around the US and as I, I was traveling, I just started

to see more and more opportunity and I started to see less and less opportunity,

you know, in South Africa and also other places that I was interested in.

Europe was already on a downlow back then, and this is, you

know, 20, 20 something years ago.

So I kind of looked at Europe and said, this is going headed

the completely wrong direction.

so, but you know, as I was traveling.

I did a lot of reading.

I, I was that guy on the team bus and the team plane that grabbed a book,

studied up on, you know, some business investing, reading about finance.

I started to get interested in that and my mom had actually given me

Robert Kiyosaki's book, rich Dad, poor Dad, to Read, because they, at

that stage had a financial advisor and they were involved in a Ponzi

scheme or a Madoff scheme of whatever you want to call it in South Africa.

Lost, the majority of their savings.

she had shared the book with me and said, you know what?

we've gone one direction in our life financially.

We don't have control, and we're hurt by this.

here's a book.

My mom read it at that stage that I just read.

You should definitely read this 'cause there might be another

path for you in, in doing this.

And I read the book and it completely changed the way that I looked

at money, how I looked at wealth capital, what it is, how it works.

massive paradigm shift.

and I actually took action and bought real estate, you know, six

months after reading the book.

So I took some of the money that I generated playing

sports and doing odd jobs.

And then I, I invested in, in real estate and, I bought the first

property, put some tenants in there, collected the rent, paid all the bills.

And I was like, wow, is, this is, this is just like in the book.

This is incredible.

How many times can I do this?

Because surprise, surprise, tenants sometimes don't pay their rent or they

pay late, or sometimes they, they damage your property or they do both, you know?

So school started, it was, that was kind of like where that

part of the journey started.

And then I started to realize too, that in the US it's funny that when people

live here, they have a different view of just where the US fits into the world.

Like there's, there's opportunities here for business owners and for like investors

that you don't have in, any other places.

There's few places on the planet where you have a tax code that rewards people,

that build businesses, that solve problems and value for the marketplace,

and also invest in things that other people need or want, like affordable

housing and energy and, and so forth.

So, at that stage, you know, it was a decision, but.

South Africa at that stage was going in a different

direction, the rest of the world.

And I'm like, well, where would I, where would I wanna position myself?

And eventually my family, which my entire family is still in South Africa,

except my sister, she's in Australia.

She married an Aussie.

so she lives just outside of Sydney.

So it was just me, you know, me, myself, and I, I always say, you

know, we gotta start somewhere.

So I came here with backpack, suitcase, couple hundred bucks, a sense of humor,

of adventure, and let's see where the, let's, let's see where this goes.

when I started my career on the investment side and building that real estate

business, that to other opportunities, was quite remarkable, which I don't

think would've happened anywhere else.

So did you, is Megan an American girl?

Did you come here and,

She's

and, grab one of our women too?

Is that what I'm hearing?

That's right.

Yeah.

So she's American and, yeah, one of the things that really, played into

where I am today too was, through the rugby community because I was

interested in real estate and I was really unemployable at this stage too.

'cause I was playing sports, so I had to do something on the side, so my thing

was like, okay, I'm gonna build this real estate company so I have something to

retire to when I'm done playing sports.

So I started building this real estate business and through the rugby community,

somebody introduced me to another real estate investor and he is like, oh, I

heard you're interested in real estate.

And explained, oh, I was so excited, this young buck, oh, I

just bought my first property.

And he's like, wait a minute.

So you already bought real estate?

And I said, yeah.

He goes, you know what, we have a large portfolio of multi-family buildings.

whenever you have time, when you know, when you're not on the road or

traveling, just jump in and, and come and work at some of my buildings.

We'll, f we'll find something for you to do.

dad was one of the biggest gifts ever too, because in the book, rich Dad Bored

Dad, says, the rich don't work for money.

They work to learn.

So I'm like, if I get paid 20 bucks for a day, I, I don't care.

I'll be busy and I'll learn something else.

So I started picking up trash on their multifamily bill, properties,

and eventually did like maintenance.

Did, was involved in apartment turnovers, paying painting, you know, inside.

and.

Eventually running construction crews, doing the leasing of the, buildings.

and then also eventually got my broker's license as part of acquisitions.

So it was such a gift at that stage too, because I'm like, now

I look at a multi-family building.

I know exactly what goes on there from top to bottom.

I know what happens during the day.

I know what happens during the weekends.

I know the type of complaints, I know the characters.

They all fall into certain categories.

You get 'em all in those buildings.

So it was, it was really a gift, for later on.

But he also introduced me to, and he came from a very

wealthy family, and I had lunch.

We had these lunches where he would stop by, grab me, pick me up, and we

would have lunch and he would have his CPA and his lawyer with him.

And this one day he had his CPA, his lawyer and a life

insurance, professional with him.

And we had lunch and I had no idea what the life insurance guy I was doing there.

I know what the other guys were doing there.

And one of the things that he then shared with me afterwards, he said,

do you know what we kind of discussed?

I'm like, I kind of have an idea.

I know what the tax guy does.

He minimizes your taxes.

I know what the lawyer does.

He does all the legal structuring and you know, Mike, sure that you

guys are bulletproof, you know, from creditors and predators, but no idea

what the life insurance guy does.

he comes from a family, which was like third generation legacy families.

So they had operating businesses.

He said, we generate money through our operating businesses, then we

take all that money and we created our own family bank with life insurance.

We put all of our money in that, then we leveraged that money.

Through a strategy like a bank, and then we use that money to buy

real estate, and that's all we do.

We keep it pretty simple.

And it confused me even more because his family was a shareholder

in a bank, a private bank.

And I said, I don't understand.

Like you have a bank, why wouldn't you put your money in the bank?

He goes, no, that's where other people put their money in our bank.

And then we have a strategy there, but for our family bank,

put it all in life insurance.

And that led me to this path of infinite banking, which I then

incorporated with my real estate.

And I started to teach that, to other people.

And then eventually it was funny, I found someone, a financial professional

that could set these up the way that they were supposed to be set up.

then I would send people to them and they would come back to me

and say, well, how do I use this?

So I'm like, the coaching part is a pretty big part.

So that's when I eventually started my company Producer's Wealth.

teaching this, you know, in all 50 states.

virtually we did it in 2015 virtually, which is another, story

of how we started to do that.

and then eventually I started the podcast Cashflow Ninja just the following year

after that because I started having these amazing conversations just with clients

generate income.

And I'm like, can I record this stuff?

And eventually they're like, yeah, sure.

I'm learning so much of like business and how you generate income and how

you invest in multifamily, single family, mobile home parks, fine

Scottish whiskey, how you buy an island, like all these different things.

and then that's kind of where that show, came from.

Well.

that's, that's

That's good.

when people have access to capital, opportunities.

Present themselves to people that are opportunistic.

I wanna back up just a little bit.

There's a couple of foundational things I wanna cover and then I'd like to talk

some strategies in the book and some other things here in just a second.

what was going on with you around oh eight?

Tell me where you were at, what was going on.

I don't know if that was as significant for you as it was for others.

Maybe you were living lighter than some other people were, but just gimme

a little bit of a. What was happening with mc in and around that time?

Yeah, so I was a real estate investor during that time.

I managed to survive,

Woo.

I always said it would be a much better story if I tell everyone

that I lost everything and I got blown out and built myself back up.

But, you know, I, I was very light at that stage, so I

didn't have a ton of properties.

but what I also learned was I had an individual that was, I looked at, you

know, like all these real estate meetups.

I went to meetups at that stage, and there was an individual that was kind of like,

you know, he was the elder kind of thing.

I looked at him kind of as a mentor and he was explaining as this was happening.

That, look, this is gonna be the opportunity of a lifetime.

And this was in 2000 and, eight and then beginning of 2009, you know,

and I was this young puppy just chomping at the bit, just ready to go.

So I actually jumped in and I bought stuff at the end of oh nine, beginning of oh 10.

So I was catching a falling knife, not listening to him because he said, you

know, he's one of those, it's almost like that meme with Mel Gibson and Braveheart.

He was like, hold, hold and then charge.

Right?

And I was the young buck that didn't listen.

That as he were saying, hold, hold, hold.

I was charging.

But that was a lesson in itself, and it wasn't that negative.

I could have just probably bought a lot more properties had I had

waited maybe one or two years, like a lot of those guys did.

the other thing that I would also say is that I learned.

I was too young for the first big, big like rug pool in 2000 with a.com bust.

that was kind of like, I, I wasn't there and I couldn't, I mean, I

was still in in university, so I didn't really learn a lot from that.

But this was the first time that I saw market cycle and the exuberance

that was going on, you know?

In the real estate game.

I mean, you were seeing people selling condos at that stage in Chicago and

driving Porsches and Ferraris, like real estate agents like that are 25 years old.

It was insane.

The exuberance, the froth, the, I mean, now I'm like, if I, if I take

mc of today to back then I'd be like, oh, this is the biggest market

to, this thing's gonna be ugly.

That was, that's what I would be thinking.

But at that stage I was like, oh, this is pretty cool.

but learned a lot of that first big market cycle and the things that I saw.

I, and I mean like you.

same thing for you, the things that you probably saw and experienced.

I don't think people can just fathom it.

You know, I, I've seen the run up, in real estate in multifamily and

the other asset classes from 2012.

So I would say like the end of 22 when the massive interest rates

spikes came, that was a little bit of a rug pool for a lot of people.

But for 10 years you had a run where people that have never been

involved in this, in, in investing or in the game, they couldn't lose.

So nobody understood what it looked like to lose, but when it, when when

you're losing, it's, it's bankruptcies, it's divorces, it's it suicides, I

mean it's, it's, it's, it is ugly.

Capitalized on a, on a scale, I don't think that people can fathom.

I did have some, but I

Mm-hmm.

you know, I learned a lot of lessons during that time,

that I've continued to apply.

You know, I'll give you an example.

The last time I saw exuberance, like I saw real estate agents driving Porsches

and Ferrari selling condos in the city of Chicago was the crypto Super Bowl.

You know, the Super Bowl where you had Larry David on FTX commercials

saying, oh, it'll never work out.

You had Matt Damon questioning your manhood if you don't buy crypto on,

whatever platform he was advertising.

the entire Super Bowl was just crypto, crypto, crypto in la

which there was, I mean, it's just crypto advertisements everywhere.

And I looked at this and I'm like, this is just like those 25-year-old real

estate agents driving forces and Ferraris.

This is exactly it.

And it became pretty ugly after that.

Yep.

so that's gonna help us lead into a little bit more specific conversation.

I wanna go back to something you use to describe yourself.

You said you're a truth seeker and one of the things that I think I

would put myself in that category too,

I don't know if I'm as much a truth seeker or that I hate to be deceived.

Those are related, but they're slightly different.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so one of the things I wanna bring up as we start moving into speaking

about, some more specific strategies and some things like that, some

things you talked about in your book.

I actually believe that there is massive deception going on at the macro level.

We could talk a little bit about that.

You know, in the US we're two plus months into a new president.

There's a lot of stuff going on.

I don't care which side you're on, there's a lot of stuff going on.

I want to talk about macro deception that's out there.

We know it is.

But there's a statement that I say to myself often, MC, and the

statement goes something like this, thou shall not fool thyself.

I believe that micro bias and deception is, I think they're related.

We can't separate 'em out,

Yep.

but I think most people start fooling themselves and part of our journey is

getting to a place where we could discern.

What's going on at that macro level so we could weed out some junk and

not be deceived and not be brought into the Ponzi schemes, the get rich

quick things and weed through stuff.

See what makes sense for us.

And that's what I want to preface that question with as we lead into

talking about what people need to do.

Because I think they need to be able to discern what we're saying.

I think people need to be able to listen in and go, you

know what, that mc guy's good.

I need to research a little bit of this.

Maybe get his book.

And Tim, you know, we've listened to him some, but yeah, I don't know.

I don't believe everything he says either.

So talk a little bit about deception.

Macro, micro, whatever you wanna talk about, because I think it's important

for people to do that before they start moving into some specific strategies.

Perfect.

Ma, on a macro scale, big picture right now, you think about, what

is happening in the United States.

you have a new administration, the Trump administration's coming in.

They created the Department of Government Efficiency that's led

by Elon Musk, regardless of where you are on the political front,

Both of these individuals have been described by media all over the place.

Left, right center, you pick it the two biggest disruptors.

In business, probably in our lifetime.

so regardless of what you think of, of Donald Trump, if you look

at at, at just his career and his history, what he did in real estate

and what he was able to accomplish there, and then going into other

different industries like reality tv.

Reality TV was never the same again after The Apprentice.

probably one of the top rated shows of reality shows of all time.

he changed the game.

so whatever industry has gone into latest politics, politics

will never be the same again.

You cannot put this genie back into the bottle.

People thought that, politics changed with how, Barack Obama introduced social

media and help him, in his campaign.

What, what, what Trump or Donald Trump did is he just, he just took this a

hundred x with, through his strategy.

So it'll, it'll never be the same.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

And it's the same thing with Musk, Elon Musk, whether you know, South African,

whether it's electric cars, whether it's payment processing systems, the

PayPal, which he started at, then

Space

electric cars space exploration, the boring company.

So now you have, in charge of the biggest economy, the most powerful on the face

of the, the world, two of the biggest disruptors in charge of this economy.

And so You're gonna see disruption at a scale, I don't think,

which you have experienced.

And that's what we're in the process of right now.

There's a lot of outrage media, 'cause that's the media cycle now.

Everybody has to be outraged on both sides to get attention be.

How do you get attention in such a crazy environment?

You almost have to, I, I mean, you have to do crazy things just to get attention.

So you're getting a lot of disruption.

And the United States, if you think about a big picture.

Especially, this has been coming for a while, by the

way, in, in the past 20 years.

But I would say bef prior to, the Trump administration coming back into

office, the, the administra, the Biden administration, before that you already

had a massive government and they just kept adding the size of government.

It just kept expanding and expanding.

And you had all these ecosystems, I call it, around government, whether it's

NGOs, whether it's defense contractors, whether it is also big pharma.

These are ecosystems that's part of that system.

it just got bigger and bigger under the previous administration exponentially.

So much so that if you look at the jobs that were added, and this is the

deception going on, big picture, that everything was added in government.

The private sector and small businesses have been suffering and have actually shed

a lot of jobs and a lot of people, Stop being employed by small businesses, and

it was all added back onto the government.

So government just started getting bigger and bigger.

And now you're getting into very, very dangerous territory because

if the government is the main driver of your economy, you a

free market economy at that stage?

Are you living in a capitalist society?

If the government, what the government does and spend dictates your entire

economy, so what's going on right now.

You've got disruption and you've got, two very focused individuals.

It's another thing, regardless of who you are at there are laser

focused, and when they have their mind, to doing and accomplishing

something, they're gonna go after it.

So that's why you're

One.

got a lot of.

One thing related to that before we move on to maybe more micro and how

people's internal minds, many people, obviously I think you and I probably get

excited a little bit about disruption.

Regardless of where you're at, I'm going, man, this has needed

to be busted up for a long time.

I don't care where you are.

I mean, I'm more libertarian probably if I were to be pinned down, smaller

government, less government, you know, get out of our way, that type thing.

But there are massive numbers of people that don't want things

to change or be disrupted.

I doubt they're still listening in, but speak to that for just a

second before you go into the micro deception and all that can go on

Yeah.

If you think about the wealth transfer that has happened in the

past years, let's, I mean, you could pick different segments.

Let's pick one segment.

The wars.

There's a reason you have had wars that never, ever stop, it's money laundering.

It's literally money laundering.

You're laundering money.

From the government to defense contractors, which then, by the way,

a lot of the people that consult and lobby the government, they are all

owners or benefactors from all of this.

So there's a lot of money at stake.

There's so much money at stake, you know, on the pharmaceutical side, big pharma.

That's why you had.

People that took a family, the Kennedy family has been the

darlings of the Democratic party.

Literally.

I mean, it's like the royalty.

And you had RFK Jr come in and I mean, he was per persona, non gra books for coming

in because he's also going, you know, he is going to disrupt that flow of capital,

which is the government, again, laundering money to pharmaceutical companies.

for lack of a better term, it's contracts, but it's essentially

just laundering money from, from one piece of the economy over to another.

And Rich, a a whole bunch of people that.

Is all in the, in the same place.

So people don't want anything to change because they want things to stay exactly

the same because everybody's had it.

So good.

And think about it, it has been easy street for a while for a lot of people.

But if you are not in that ecosystem or in any of these

ecosystems, what have you seen?

You've seen inflation, which by the way, that's also deception and a lie.

inflation has been in the mid twenties, 25 to 26%.

Why would I say that there?

Well, there's an AI tool for that.

Tru ifl, is an AI tool that can actually tell you the true inflation.

And from 2020 to where we are today, you're on 25, 20 6%.

That's where, and, and, and you know, it's funny when you say that to the

average person on the street or people that we talk to, they look at you and

they go, yeah, that sounds about right.

That's what I experience when I go buy food or grow to the grocery store.

Or things are on average, probably about 25 to 30% more.

But yet the government will tell you, oh, inflation's around two to 3%.

Right?

Which is, which is, which is madness.

So that's another big thing.

And what else has people seen?

They've seen the wealth inequality, which of PE is concerning to a lot of people.

You want a healthy, thriving middle clause and you would have, if there

wasn't these games played, big picture and these ecosystems, but you've seen

a hollowing out of the middle class.

More and more people are falling out of the middle class.

look, we were ripe for disruption.

Sometimes as an entrepreneur and a business owner, you look at

industries that you're like, oh, this should so be disrupted right now.

It doesn't provide any value.

That's a lot of these systems that I mentioned and this is what's happening.

AI is coming into this too, right?

So you have a massive disruptor like AI coming in, which is gonna replace

a lot of the functions that are just repetitive, you know, repetitive

jobs, which a lot exist in government.

I'll just comment quickly on the global environment.

What you're also seeing is that the US has kind of taken a back step as

the superpower, the main superpower, and they are reasserting themselves.

So when you see these, news headlines of, you know, the Panama Canal.

Was in the news.

that was a big one.

Greenland is now like in, in, in the news.

So why are all these things in the news?

If we go back, you know, to the be beginning of our conversation, the number

one job of a military, of a superpower is to protect and facilitate global trade.

And these were all bottlenecks that they kind of let go or, you know,

who knows what the story is behind that one can speculate, but the

reality is that the US no longer had control over those bottlenecks.

So they're reasserting that and that's also causing some global disruption,

you know, with tariffs and so forth.

I think that, one of the things that I'm concerned about, especially looking

back at Covid, maybe even going back to oh eight, going back to 2000,

I am concerned that as a culture.

This spills down to the individual mc that we've lost our ability to evaluate risk.

we can't look at numbers correctly, maybe because of all the deception

or maybe we've been programmed, and I think that's important.

I'd like to drive this conversation for our last few minutes down to average.

Joe, I, I wanna speak over the next 10 plus minutes.

Specifically to average Joe.

'cause he, he might be seeing all this stuff on the news and he's

sitting his head swimming going, what the heck does that mean for me?

You know, the stock market up and down and you know, we just mentioned some

things with insurance and alternative investments and I, you know, I enjoy

crypto and gold and all, all these kind of stuff, but I think what a lot of

people have is they have a, probably a small amount of money or a small job.

And they really have a desire to protect that.

and I don't know that they really understand risk, which means

evaluating and, doing things like that.

So, I know I just threw a number of things at you, but what I'd

love for us to do is start talking.

To average, Joe, what does average Joe need to be looking at right now?

Where does he need to be getting information?

What does he need to ignore and what does he need to pay attention to right now?

Because there's a bunch of junk out there, so what would you, and you know what?

They're not gonna study it like you, so I think we need to admit that.

And so talk to someone who's still hanging out with us here.

what do they need to do to kinda get, where can they, how can

they cut through all this crap?

Yeah, so what the, the advice that I would give to folks too is, like you said,

determining risk is very hard right now.

'cause there's such a deception going on.

Let's use the stock market for example.

There's a, there's a, the terminology or concept called the buffet indicator.

And the buffet indicator looks at the size of the stock market

in relation to the US economy.

Now, currently the stock market is basically twice

the size as the US economy.

So what does that mean?

That means in layman's terms, if you're buying a house and the house is worth

$250,000 and you, you're gonna buy the house from me, but I said, you know what?

The house is actually worth $500,000.

You should buy the house from me for $500,000.

okay, well, one, no one would take that trade ever.

You wouldn't buy a $250,000 house for $500,000, but yet that's exactly

what people are doing right now.

If you are using the buffet indicator of the stock market.

Hence why Buffet has gone from chasing yields to just protecting.

And if you look at his cash positions, he's sitting in the, at Berkshire

Hathaway, and he is selling off different divisions too, by the way, which he knows.

this is the top, you know, of a massive bubble.

so he's selling off a lot of divisions of Berkshire Hathaway, a lot of the

different companies, and he is just positioning cash and holding onto cash.

So for the average person, you know, just the stock, the stock market is overvalued.

It's probably, there's a lot of different markets that are overvalued.

so finding value in this world right now is very hard and with a lot of disruptions

that are coming, this is protection mode.

So I would say spend less than you consume number one.

That's the number one.

Number two.

Buy yourself first.

Put away 10, 15, 20, 30% of your capital as much as you

can and just accumulate cash.

Crypto will also get hit with disruption.

I still think crypto is gonna do very, very well, but don't be

surprised if the crypto market gets cut in half at some point in time.

this is not a negative against crypto.

It's very liquid, very easy to sell off when you need money, Right.

and then gold and silver.

that's been money for centuries.

being from South Africa, the home of the Kruger you're not gonna

have to convince me about gold.

I love gold and silver.

I think that's gonna be money for centuries and has been for centuries.

But the big thing right now, the average person can do is spend

less than you consume, accumulate as much cash as possible.

Sit tight because you know, think about.

Trying to get six to 12 months of your household expenses just saved.

And if you're a business owner, same thing.

You know, save as much cash as you can.

Build a system.

You know that we talk about the infinite banking system where you

become the banker for your business.

So you could set up life insurance contracts to do that.

And you never have to go into a bank begging ever again.

You have your own banking system.

so that's what I would recommend for the average person.

The average business owner is now's the time for efficiency and just

accumulating and putting away cash.

If you think about, what Doge is doing in the US economy, think about

doing a Doge in your own household.

You know, your personal economy and your business economy.

Try to be as efficient as possible.

Cut back on areas that are maybe a little bit of an overkill.

and just accumulate cash.

'cause that's gonna come in handy for you.

So if you have a few kids, maybe consider.

Farming them out and doing something like that.

Put.

is that what you're saying?

Did I hear

It'd be nice if they could start, you know, earning their keep and All right.

That would be a good thing.

no, I, I, I actually think I. The people that are keeping their head clear are

going to be positioning themselves, the people that are reading books, like we'll

talk about here in just a second before we finish up, get wealthy for sure.

Maybe listening in here, listening over at Cashflow Ninja that are, that are

pursuing things, not living in that.

I mean, listen, you could spend every bit of your time.

Listening to all the gory details about what, what's happening

in Washington DC right now.

As for me, I've got some other stuff that I need to do and I

don't need my head clear, you know?

I know what's going on.

I don't need to listen to people talk about it and all.

So that brings up a quick question before we talk about the book

and kinda start wrapping here.

Where do you get some of your information?

And where do you recommend average Joe?

Stay away from and gather information because he can't talk to you all the time.

They could listen to our podcast, which I think is a great thing.

But, where do you get your info?

You know, there's some, uh, it's very, very hard.

Number one, there's, there's some new sources that you can follow.

zero Hedge is one of them that I follow.

Just like, look at a daily, just, it just gives you the big

headlines for the day kind of thing.

I also, organized my Twitter.

X as it goes by now, just to get the news headlines quickly.

And I scroll through and I could do that all in five minutes a day.

But really where I've found a lot of value is paid newsletters.

that's the one thing that, you know, everybody likes the free information, but

you're the product with free information.

Just remember that.

So a lot of new newsletters, I subscribe to, just to kind of get to the bottom

of what's actually going on, getting some deep, thought provoking analysis

of global events, the global economy, the US economy, where things are headed.

But yeah, I'm the same as you.

I spend about five minutes looking at the headlines because I also look

at the news headlines like this, this is what they want everybody

else to believe is happening.

it is good to understand what the average person, the average person's per

perceptive of what is actually happening.

'cause that's what they want you to believe.

What's in the news headlines.

So it's kind of good to get those too, just to kind of know what's

the national conversation like or the international conversation.

Get wealthy for sure.

The number one financial strategy for business owners to multiply wealth.

Wealth predictably.

I did two turn downs in here.

One turn down you said specifically, this is a book about using whole

life insurance policy with mutual insurance company to store your

excess capital, become your own bank.

And then I kinda liked the, portion over here where you

talk about the family offices.

tell me why the book, what it's about, and where people can get it, and all

of that as we're wrapping up here.

Yeah, so most people talk, the, the world right now and news headlines

again, which is very crazy.

But it's all about get getting rich quick and I've been

looking for that for 25 years.

I haven't found it.

If you do find it, please reach out to me and let me know where I can find it too.

But I don't see anything as a get rich quick.

The only way to build true, sustainable, multi-generational wealth is through

discipline and following proven systems.

So in the book I talk about the get wealthy for sure financial strategy,

which is the number one I. financial strategy for business owners to multiply

their wealth predictably, that system has a track record of 170 years.

It's something that I've personally done for 15 years.

It takes discipline, resilience, and setting up a smarter system, working

smart and hard simultaneously for you.

in the book, I just share how you could set up your very own banking system

for yourself, your business, also your family, and then I get into the components

of what are some of the secrets of the Rockefellers, how do they use this, and

how do they maximize their family bank?

and you can too.

You don't have to be a Rockefeller to do what the Rockefellers do.

So I talk about how to create legacy assets for your family, how

to set up tax, legal and insurance structures, how to create a family

bank just like the Rockefellers.

how to manage assets like billionaires.

There's a spoiler alert.

They actually look at a hundred years or more when they invest.

they pick, you know, 10 or fewer areas of investment and they stick with it.

and then also how to do family masterminds, just like the

Rockefellers and the Rothchild families 'cause that's the glue that

keeps the family kind of together.

But in the book, you know, I talk about the strategy, which

I call the get wealthy for sure.

So I'd rather do the, get wealthy for sure than the get rich quick.

And if people want a copy of the book, they could go to get wealthy for sure.

Dot com.

Right now we're doing an offer where, when you request a Piper back

book, we'll ship the book for you.

The book's for free.

You just pay for the shipping and handling.

And at the Get Wealthy for sure.com link, there's also videos of where we do deep

dives and strategy showing you exactly how this actually works for those that are

interested in, you know, diving into it.

and there's also a link if you wanna set up a call with myself and my team

and explore options for yourself, you'll be able to book a call with us there.

It's at Get Wealthy for Sure.

Dot com.

I'm sure you're going deep into a lot of this stuff over at Cashflow Ninja.

Tell us briefly about that.

Yeah, so Cashflow Ninja is, my podcast and we have, over a

thousand shows@cashflownja.com.

And we've covered over 120 different, cashflow investment niches.

You know, everything from multifamily mobile home parks to

fine Scottish whiskey, how to buy an island, you know, it's everything.

And we have gone everywhere, literally everywhere.

It's funny.

You know, I always put out an email to, if you know about something

that I haven't covered, let me know.

and we still get a couple of those, but, you know, all those information

is available at cash loan engine call.

How, how to make money while traveling around the country in an rv.

How about that one?

Let's, There you go.

That'll be a good one.

Hey, final question.

I'd love for you to do this for us.

We've talked about a lot of big stuff, a lot of big topics.

I think it's been light for some people, but maybe could have been burdensome.

Just kind of as a last comment here, mc, just encourage somebody that

might just be kind of overwhelmed.

We know they need to pick up the book and maybe go listen to other things, but

just give somebody some encouragement.

If they're looking out there going, man, I don't know how I'm gonna

get my act together financially.

There's just too much going on.

Give them a good word to make 'em feel good.

Yeah.

A lot of the media and information you receive about finance

and money, it's all terrible.

It's not designed for you and it's designed to confuse you, to get you a

kind of slightly, feeling depressed.

'cause you're like, I don't even understand what they're saying.

They don't want you to understand what they're saying.

What they want you to do is just come to them and give them your money.

So I'm, if you're listening to this and you go, I don't know how

to do this, it seems complicated.

I will tell you that, a farm boy from South Africa can figure this out.

And I know I spent a lot of time with it, but it doesn't have to be complicated.

It's actually very, very simple if you think about it.

And when you actually try to get advice, try to get advice from people that

will explain it to you in the most.

Simplest manner, easily understandable.

You know, I try to explain things so that my kids can understand it, right?

And they're eight and six.

So, it doesn't have to be complicated.

You just start where you're at, spend less than what you make.

Number one, consume a little bit less.

Start building that nest egg.

Start putting money away and before you know it, you will have enough

capital to start, you know, maybe create your own banking system.

every day the move in the right direction, doing little

things will compound over time.

it does with your health.

It does with money, it does with good habits.

It'll compound over time.

And, within 12 to 18 months, you'll have no idea how you even got to where you are.

But you would be in a completely different situation.

I. That's good.

and I wanna remind people, not just a farm boy from South Africa, but MCs a

rugby player, which probably means he's taken some hits to the head over the

course of his I've seen some rugby man.

100%

correct.

No pads.

These folks get beat to a pulp mc Lobster.

Thank you so much.

The book is Get Wealthy for Sure.

Here's a copy for those people who might be watching it on YouTube.

We'll include some links down below.

Also links over to, Cashflow Ninja, thank you for joining us.

C I've loved this conversation.

We've, had some great conversations about all that's going on in the world.

I think it's been helpful to people just to hear two guys riff on that.

We are seek go create here.

We've got new episodes every Monday.

Make sure you're tuned in and commenting over on YouTube,

on all the podcast platforms.

We love having conversations like this just to share what's going on.

And as, uh, MC said earlier, he's a truth seeker.

We are seek go create.

That fits right into that.

We'll see you next week.