1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,059 So what happens in most retailers is when they apply AI, the people who are doing 2 00:00:06,059 --> 00:00:07,500 it don't actually understand retail. 3 00:00:07,559 --> 00:00:10,769 So what they do is they do people who like this also like this. 4 00:00:11,129 --> 00:00:14,789 That drives the average customer to the best seller products. 5 00:00:14,849 --> 00:00:18,390 So your, your catalog is gradually shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. 6 00:00:18,429 --> 00:00:18,719 Yeah. 7 00:00:19,439 --> 00:00:22,139 And you think you're doing really well because people are claiming sales, but 8 00:00:22,139 --> 00:00:23,399 actually you're killing your business. 9 00:00:23,609 --> 00:00:24,509 You're killing your margins. 10 00:00:24,509 --> 00:00:26,279 You're creating what we call the long tail problem. 11 00:00:31,310 --> 00:00:35,630 Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with me your host, Matt Edmundson. 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,300 Now, the E-Commerce podcast is a show all about helping you deliver e-commerce. 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:41,540 Wow. 14 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,880 And to help us do just that today, I'm chatting with Alan Gormley 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,740 from Shot Box AI about winning the e-commerce game with ai. 16 00:00:51,740 --> 00:00:55,185 Yes, we are getting into all things ai, it's such a hot topic. 17 00:00:55,185 --> 00:01:01,635 But before Alan and I get into that conversation, let me share 18 00:01:01,635 --> 00:01:04,015 with you a previous podcast. 19 00:01:05,015 --> 00:01:07,085 Pick that I think you'll enjoy. 20 00:01:07,265 --> 00:01:12,175 And to do that, I'm gonna go to our website, ecommercepodcast.net. 21 00:01:12,425 --> 00:01:15,605 I am gonna hit on all episodes and you can do exactly the same thing 22 00:01:15,605 --> 00:01:18,785 cuz every episode is there and you can type into the search bar. 23 00:01:18,785 --> 00:01:19,535 I'm doing it now. 24 00:01:19,535 --> 00:01:21,055 You can hear me typing things like. 25 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,310 AI, for example, and you can see what topics we've got on the website. 26 00:01:26,610 --> 00:01:29,970 Um, and it'll bring up a whole bunch of stuff for you. 27 00:01:30,180 --> 00:01:32,760 Or you can type in things like, I don't know, email marketing. 28 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,960 Uh, and again, it will just bring up all of those topics for you and you can 29 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:39,200 find your favorite podcast episodes. 30 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,960 Our search functionality is pretty good, so do check it out. 31 00:01:43,260 --> 00:01:47,160 So my podcast pick is more of a podcast tip today that's user 32 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,040 search functionality on the website. 33 00:01:50,130 --> 00:01:50,790 Oh yes. 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:57,215 Now, If you are subscribed to our newsletter, you will of course be getting 35 00:01:57,215 --> 00:01:59,015 today's show notes and transcript. 36 00:01:59,015 --> 00:02:02,315 Direct your inbox totally for free cuz that's what happens. 37 00:02:02,675 --> 00:02:05,825 Uh, but if you're not subscribed to the newsletter, whilst you're checking out 38 00:02:05,825 --> 00:02:09,445 the search functionality on the site, why not sign up to the email newsletter? 39 00:02:09,695 --> 00:02:13,325 And every week we email you the links and the notes from the 40 00:02:13,325 --> 00:02:15,185 show from each amazing guest. 41 00:02:15,185 --> 00:02:18,615 That we have on, so do check that out at ecommercepodcast.net. 42 00:02:19,265 --> 00:02:22,535 Now, are you struggling to grow your e-commerce business? 43 00:02:22,535 --> 00:02:27,245 Do you feel like you are constantly spinning the wheels trying to 44 00:02:27,250 --> 00:02:29,165 figure out what to focus on next? 45 00:02:29,165 --> 00:02:33,605 Let me tell you, I know exactly how it feels and how frustrating it can be. 46 00:02:33,815 --> 00:02:37,415 I was on a call this morning looking at one of our e-commerce websites and 47 00:02:37,415 --> 00:02:40,295 there's still things on there that aren't right, that aren't perfect, 48 00:02:40,295 --> 00:02:41,585 and it's like, where do I start? 49 00:02:41,585 --> 00:02:42,575 Where do I begin? 50 00:02:42,950 --> 00:02:44,060 You've gotta get it all right. 51 00:02:44,060 --> 00:02:47,810 And that's why we love e-commerce cohort. 52 00:02:47,870 --> 00:02:48,260 Yes. 53 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,080 E-commerce cohort is today's show sponsor. 54 00:02:51,410 --> 00:02:55,730 It helps e-commerce businesses like yours and like mine to deliver exceptional 55 00:02:55,730 --> 00:02:58,670 customer experiences that drive results. 56 00:02:58,970 --> 00:02:59,630 Ah, yes. 57 00:02:59,630 --> 00:03:00,440 It's such a great tool. 58 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:00,860 Honestly. 59 00:03:00,860 --> 00:03:03,620 It's like a, it's a, it's um, it's a membership group. 60 00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:05,420 The best way to describe it is a membership group. 61 00:03:05,420 --> 00:03:06,380 It's like a mastermind. 62 00:03:06,380 --> 00:03:08,550 You come, you join e-commerce cohort. 63 00:03:09,085 --> 00:03:12,625 We look at some expert workshops, we figure out what it means for 64 00:03:12,625 --> 00:03:13,975 our own e-commerce business. 65 00:03:14,005 --> 00:03:19,045 And in that way we never miss one of the key areas of e-commerce cuz it's, 66 00:03:19,045 --> 00:03:23,615 we're constantly going over the stuff, which is why today on the call, It 67 00:03:23,615 --> 00:03:26,885 was great because we knew some of the stuff that came out through cohort. 68 00:03:26,885 --> 00:03:33,075 So if you would like to find out more, why not check out, uh, ecommercecohort.com. 69 00:03:33,095 --> 00:03:36,795 There's more information on the website, ecommercecohort.com. 70 00:03:36,995 --> 00:03:40,745 If you're running e-commerce, uh, and you wanna just make sure everything's 71 00:03:40,745 --> 00:03:42,545 gonna work well do check it out. 72 00:03:42,545 --> 00:03:44,015 I can highly recommend it. 73 00:03:44,405 --> 00:03:46,415 Now that's the show sponsor. 74 00:03:46,925 --> 00:03:52,185 Let's meet today's guest, Alan Gormley, the mastermind behind Shot 75 00:03:52,185 --> 00:03:54,765 Box AI and I love this bio, Alan. 76 00:03:54,765 --> 00:03:57,645 I don't know if you wrote this or whether Sadaf wrote this, uh, but it 77 00:03:57,645 --> 00:04:04,065 says here behind, uh, or No, with a superhero's Cape made from 25 years 78 00:04:04,125 --> 00:04:10,540 of AI and retail wisdom, Alan swooped into the e-commerce arena to level the 79 00:04:10,540 --> 00:04:16,690 playing field, his mission to arm David size retailers with Goliath-beating AI 80 00:04:16,690 --> 00:04:21,940 tools, opening a world where every Reed Taylor gets a shot at the big lead. 81 00:04:22,210 --> 00:04:25,970 I don't know, Alan, if that's your bio, like I say, whether Sadaf wrote 82 00:04:25,990 --> 00:04:29,680 it, but that has got to be the best bio I've ever read on this podcast. 83 00:04:30,875 --> 00:04:34,085 So I will say that content is, is mine. 84 00:04:34,175 --> 00:04:36,365 Uh, but Sadaf definitely put a cloak on me. 85 00:04:36,365 --> 00:04:42,485 I have never used that but, uh, yeah, maybe we'll do that. 86 00:04:42,485 --> 00:04:44,225 Maybe that, that, maybe that's the next thing. 87 00:04:44,515 --> 00:04:45,155 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 88 00:04:45,155 --> 00:04:45,565 Do that. 89 00:04:45,565 --> 00:04:46,175 Put a cloak on. 90 00:04:46,175 --> 00:04:49,325 So if you're listening to the podcast or watching the YouTube video, um, 91 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,990 Uh, Sadaf is the show producer, uh, and she just makes all the magic 92 00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:57,170 happen behind the scenes, and she does like to tweak guest bios. 93 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,990 Uh, and so I particularly like that one. 94 00:04:59,990 --> 00:05:03,590 I like the idea of the, uh, the, the, what was the sentence? 95 00:05:03,595 --> 00:05:08,000 The David size retailers to arm David size retailers with Goliath beating. 96 00:05:08,505 --> 00:05:09,285 AI tools. 97 00:05:09,495 --> 00:05:13,305 And the reason I like it, Alan, is because I have this thing of, I have 98 00:05:13,305 --> 00:05:16,485 this phrase, which I use the digital David's taking on the Goliath. 99 00:05:16,490 --> 00:05:20,205 You know, and it's, um, and it is such a great phrase and such a 100 00:05:20,205 --> 00:05:23,055 great thing that the little guy can actually take on the big guy if he 101 00:05:23,055 --> 00:05:25,515 has the right tools to help him. 102 00:05:25,515 --> 00:05:32,415 So, um, explain, just explain what Shop box AI is, um, and how it 103 00:05:32,535 --> 00:05:33,735 was, I suppose in some respects. 104 00:05:33,735 --> 00:05:35,805 We'll get into how it helps David take on Goliath. 105 00:05:36,410 --> 00:05:37,280 Yeah, absolutely. 106 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:40,820 Um, I might just give you a bit of background into where we came from. 107 00:05:40,820 --> 00:05:40,910 Mm-hmm. 108 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,290 Because I think that helps explain it very well at, at, at a very, at a very 109 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,880 high level, the point of shop box is that it creates a unique store for each 110 00:05:49,885 --> 00:05:51,410 customer that comes onto your website. 111 00:05:51,410 --> 00:05:51,760 Right. 112 00:05:51,950 --> 00:05:52,070 Okay. 113 00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:56,030 So every customer should get their view of your store full stop. 114 00:05:56,030 --> 00:05:59,930 Cuz we got the capability to do it online and for years we haven't done it. 115 00:05:59,950 --> 00:06:00,240 Yeah. 116 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,470 Um, let me go back to how we got to there. 117 00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:09,305 Um, I, I've been in the AI industry since 97 and I've worked Oh, wow. 118 00:06:09,755 --> 00:06:10,205 Across Europe. 119 00:06:10,265 --> 00:06:11,105 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 120 00:06:11,105 --> 00:06:16,805 So I started down in Croydon, um, uh, in insurance actually. 121 00:06:16,805 --> 00:06:19,355 But I worked across many, many different sectors, but a huge 122 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,245 focus of mine has been on retail. 123 00:06:21,695 --> 00:06:25,745 And one thing that started to get really frustrating for me was we only 124 00:06:25,745 --> 00:06:26,945 worked with very large companies. 125 00:06:27,455 --> 00:06:27,575 Yeah. 126 00:06:27,575 --> 00:06:31,385 And, It got very frustrating because I thought we got huge companies 127 00:06:31,385 --> 00:06:34,565 taking massive advantage of this technology and everyone else doesn't 128 00:06:34,565 --> 00:06:35,645 even get to play at the party. 129 00:06:36,155 --> 00:06:36,245 Mm-hmm. 130 00:06:36,485 --> 00:06:39,065 So that was kind of a, a big frustration for me. 131 00:06:39,070 --> 00:06:43,325 But the more I looked at e-commerce and what I wanted to do with my 132 00:06:43,325 --> 00:06:47,735 life, which was to level the playing field to a large degree, the more 133 00:06:48,005 --> 00:06:52,235 I realized that retail had by far the worst disparity of any industry. 134 00:06:52,295 --> 00:06:57,530 So, um, To be really clear, you've got Amazon. 135 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:58,070 Mm-hmm. 136 00:06:58,580 --> 00:07:00,440 Right up there at the top 30,000 feet. 137 00:07:01,495 --> 00:07:05,360 Living at large, they reckon about 35% of average of Amazon's 138 00:07:05,365 --> 00:07:08,690 revenue comes from what they call hyperpersonalization, right? 139 00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:11,480 We're trying to call it slightly different these days, but essentially, 140 00:07:11,810 --> 00:07:15,680 AI applied to retail in realtime, right? 141 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,540 Proper applied to retail in time. 142 00:07:18,110 --> 00:07:20,361 So Amazon are doing it, making 35% of the revenue. 143 00:07:20,870 --> 00:07:21,680 That's according to analyst. 144 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,570 Amazon will never tell you themselves. 145 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,035 Um, Then you look at the next layer. 146 00:07:27,035 --> 00:07:28,235 So who's competing with Amazon? 147 00:07:28,235 --> 00:07:32,345 I would contend nobody, literally, nobody is competing at that level. 148 00:07:32,345 --> 00:07:36,245 Some of the largest retailers that we've looked at from, you know, 149 00:07:36,245 --> 00:07:40,775 the best buys in the US to the John Lewises, to the fanatics, the metros 150 00:07:40,835 --> 00:07:43,635 not even really playing in that game. 151 00:07:44,105 --> 00:07:44,395 Yeah. 152 00:07:44,585 --> 00:07:48,485 So if you give a really good example, uh, I, there's a few, few websites 153 00:07:48,485 --> 00:07:51,785 I've been tracking out for four years, and I go on pretty much every day. 154 00:07:52,445 --> 00:07:55,175 To tell them that I want a pair of men's shoes or a camera, whatever it 155 00:07:55,175 --> 00:07:57,365 is, just something really simple to see. 156 00:07:57,515 --> 00:08:00,545 Will you at some point figure out, I'm a guy who wants shoes. 157 00:08:01,445 --> 00:08:06,065 I'm apparently a woman with hair who wants floral dresses, so you 158 00:08:06,070 --> 00:08:08,675 know, it's wrong in all accounts. 159 00:08:08,735 --> 00:08:13,775 Um, but you know, it's not, it's a terrible experience for a customer. 160 00:08:13,805 --> 00:08:17,555 And then when we looked at the market, we realized that personalization tools 161 00:08:17,555 --> 00:08:20,465 weren't helping because what they, what they were, when you talk to them 162 00:08:20,465 --> 00:08:24,710 and you go under the covers, What they were really doing was allowing 163 00:08:25,250 --> 00:08:29,450 merchandisers to push products they wanted to sell on their customers. 164 00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:31,280 There's very little, actually about customer. 165 00:08:31,590 --> 00:08:31,880 Yeah. 166 00:08:32,150 --> 00:08:36,080 And it's really, when you start to look at some of these stores, through those 167 00:08:36,085 --> 00:08:40,610 eyes, you start, it becomes really, really obvious that what they're recommending 168 00:08:40,610 --> 00:08:44,440 to me is what the category manager shouted loudest about on the, yeah. 169 00:08:44,955 --> 00:08:45,155 Yeah. 170 00:08:45,735 --> 00:08:49,385 So we looked at that and said, okay, so there's, there's, there's two things here. 171 00:08:49,535 --> 00:08:51,965 We gotta change the game for all retailers. 172 00:08:51,965 --> 00:08:55,265 We gotta make a system that allows any retailer to get on board. 173 00:08:55,325 --> 00:09:00,095 So we're working with people from, you know, 200,000 per year annual 174 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:03,155 revenue where they're just starting out right up to 200 million. 175 00:09:03,155 --> 00:09:05,975 And we're talking to people who are about a billion annual revenue right 176 00:09:05,975 --> 00:09:08,075 now, um, to come onto the platform. 177 00:09:08,105 --> 00:09:11,705 So the whole point is everybody gets to play with the same technology. 178 00:09:12,245 --> 00:09:13,595 Right, and get, take advantage of it. 179 00:09:14,315 --> 00:09:18,305 But the other thing, and this is, this is actually more critical 180 00:09:18,305 --> 00:09:23,735 for where real return investment comes from for, for customers. 181 00:09:24,785 --> 00:09:28,385 The other problem I had with them personalization in, in, in retail is 182 00:09:28,475 --> 00:09:29,515 I don't think it's very ambitious. 183 00:09:30,950 --> 00:09:31,160 Okay. 184 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,140 So I look at it and I look at people who've been around for 185 00:09:33,140 --> 00:09:37,010 15 years and going, what are you doing that's competing with Amazon? 186 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:39,410 Because if you're not competing with Amazon, or you're not looking 187 00:09:39,410 --> 00:09:44,270 at Netflix and TikTok as, as the Talismans that you wanna reach, why 188 00:09:44,270 --> 00:09:45,050 are you doing what you're doing? 189 00:09:45,470 --> 00:09:45,560 Mm-hmm. 190 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,280 So, to me, unless you're gonna try and compete at Amazon's 191 00:09:49,285 --> 00:09:50,550 level, there's no point. 192 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:52,970 you, gotta be better than the best. 193 00:09:53,180 --> 00:09:57,050 So the, and, and you know, some people like Amazon, some people hate Amazon, 194 00:09:57,260 --> 00:09:58,280 but they're pretty good at what they do. 195 00:09:58,380 --> 00:09:58,670 Yeah. 196 00:09:59,495 --> 00:10:02,315 Um, they, so we looked at 'em. 197 00:10:02,315 --> 00:10:08,045 We realized that over the last 20 years, retailers have allowed themselves not 198 00:10:08,050 --> 00:10:12,425 really through any, any fault of their own, but they've gradually been pushed 199 00:10:12,425 --> 00:10:13,595 to the end of the shopping journey. 200 00:10:14,585 --> 00:10:14,705 Okay? 201 00:10:14,705 --> 00:10:19,565 So they're, retailers are so focused on the cart and on the last step 202 00:10:19,565 --> 00:10:22,775 of the transaction that they've missed the entire shopping journey. 203 00:10:23,975 --> 00:10:24,245 Okay? 204 00:10:24,245 --> 00:10:25,595 And this really. 205 00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:29,660 Where I first started thinking about this was about 15 years 206 00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:33,260 ago, a CMO said to me, I'm sick of paying Google for my own customers. 207 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:34,100 Yeah. 208 00:10:34,820 --> 00:10:36,920 Oh, that's an interesting comment. 209 00:10:36,950 --> 00:10:38,750 That's a very, very interesting comment. 210 00:10:39,530 --> 00:10:44,570 Okay, so now this guy, his, his company, their brand is not an English 211 00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:47,960 word, so there's no way anybody's typing their brand in for any 212 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,190 other reason apart to go from them. 213 00:10:49,340 --> 00:10:49,490 Yeah. 214 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,745 So, We looked at and went, um, okay. 215 00:10:52,745 --> 00:10:55,475 It's fine paying somebody to acquire customers, but it seems a 216 00:10:55,475 --> 00:10:58,595 bit much to pay somebody to keep a customer involved all the time. 217 00:10:58,895 --> 00:10:59,105 Yeah. 218 00:10:59,105 --> 00:11:01,415 The more I started to go under the covers of this, the more 219 00:11:01,415 --> 00:11:04,625 I realized we've, essentially outsourced customer management, 220 00:11:04,625 --> 00:11:07,025 to Google, and, and take Google. 221 00:11:07,025 --> 00:11:10,115 Like Google to me is, it's like Hoover, it's a word for anybody you 222 00:11:10,115 --> 00:11:11,375 pay to bring stuff to your site. 223 00:11:11,375 --> 00:11:13,005 To me is everyone. 224 00:11:14,345 --> 00:11:17,824 but we're attracting customers in, they're not ready to buy yet. 225 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,405 So we just allowed them to wander out. 226 00:11:20,585 --> 00:11:23,555 Google are using that information to sell those customers again to 227 00:11:23,555 --> 00:11:25,265 you, often to your competitors. 228 00:11:25,584 --> 00:11:26,855 And you're, stuck in this cycle. 229 00:11:26,860 --> 00:11:29,705 It's not a, it's not acquisition, it's reacquisition of the same 230 00:11:29,705 --> 00:11:30,995 customers over and over again. 231 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:31,275 Yeah. 232 00:11:31,275 --> 00:11:31,555 Yeah. 233 00:11:32,314 --> 00:11:36,395 So we started to, um, so all those things kind of came together for me 234 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,095 a few years ago, and it started to look at it from the point of view of 235 00:11:39,665 --> 00:11:41,585 how do we start putting the store. 236 00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:45,080 Back at the center of e-commerce and not have the store of the 237 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,170 last bit where the transaction happens and where people price. 238 00:11:48,530 --> 00:11:51,200 So that's what we really dedicated ourselves to, and that means you 239 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,550 gotta approach everything differently. 240 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:56,330 So first of all, we have to learn about a customer within the first click. 241 00:11:56,335 --> 00:11:56,730 Mm-hmm. 242 00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:57,080 Okay. 243 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,610 So traditional ai. 244 00:11:59,210 --> 00:11:59,420 Yeah. 245 00:11:59,420 --> 00:11:59,750 Great. 246 00:11:59,750 --> 00:12:03,470 You know, after, after, after a while, it starts to understand a bit about customer 247 00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:05,360 and then it starts to get a bit better. 248 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,020 Not good enough. 249 00:12:06,335 --> 00:12:07,955 Because it, it's way too late. 250 00:12:08,225 --> 00:12:11,705 There's no point in understanding a customer is interested in buying a 251 00:12:11,705 --> 00:12:13,925 lawnmower or black shoes or whatever. 252 00:12:14,435 --> 00:12:18,095 Um, after they've looked at 15 of 'em, you know, it's gotta be instant. 253 00:12:18,515 --> 00:12:21,575 And, and the other thing we gotta do with e-commerce is once we know 254 00:12:21,575 --> 00:12:23,975 what they're interested in, we gotta start making it about them. 255 00:12:23,975 --> 00:12:27,875 So we've gotta start building, not just trying to close that 256 00:12:27,875 --> 00:12:30,575 sale, but, but build it like the experience you have in a store. 257 00:12:31,625 --> 00:12:31,745 Okay. 258 00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:35,015 So, um, and that's really important. 259 00:12:35,135 --> 00:12:37,325 Um, I'll give you an example. 260 00:12:37,325 --> 00:12:41,405 One of the first, um, one of the first clients we worked with sell 261 00:12:41,405 --> 00:12:44,765 a lot of baby products, and they, they talk a lot about the buggy. 262 00:12:45,155 --> 00:12:45,335 Okay? 263 00:12:45,335 --> 00:12:46,475 So they kept talking about your buggies. 264 00:12:46,475 --> 00:12:46,955 Really important. 265 00:12:46,955 --> 00:12:47,705 We gotta sell the buggies. 266 00:12:47,705 --> 00:12:47,915 Buggy. 267 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:48,995 Buggy, they're cool. 268 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:49,605 Gotta sell a buggie. 269 00:12:49,835 --> 00:12:53,615 It's about 1500 quids worth of, of, um, of sale. 270 00:12:53,675 --> 00:12:54,395 So that's pretty good. 271 00:12:54,785 --> 00:12:58,370 But after a while, he starts saying, guys, it's not about 272 00:12:58,370 --> 00:12:59,435 the buggy, it's about the baby. 273 00:12:59,945 --> 00:13:01,265 Like nobody wants a buggy. 274 00:13:01,625 --> 00:13:02,585 They want a baby. 275 00:13:03,035 --> 00:13:03,215 Yeah. 276 00:13:03,215 --> 00:13:05,525 And then when the baby comes, they have to buy a buggy. 277 00:13:05,525 --> 00:13:07,835 So why are you so obsessed about the buggy? 278 00:13:07,835 --> 00:13:11,525 And we know it's an anchored product, but we gotta think about the fact that 279 00:13:11,525 --> 00:13:15,065 that anchored product is just one of the many, many things that need to be bought. 280 00:13:15,605 --> 00:13:20,345 So with we, when we put all that together, the whole point is 281 00:13:20,705 --> 00:13:21,835 understand the customer early. 282 00:13:22,505 --> 00:13:25,235 Understand what they're actually interested in doing so you can start 283 00:13:25,235 --> 00:13:28,685 to build a path for them and, and they feel that they're getting serviced. 284 00:13:28,985 --> 00:13:30,255 They feel that they're getting suggestions. 285 00:13:30,365 --> 00:13:34,535 They stumble across stuff instead of stuff being shoved into their faces and they 286 00:13:34,535 --> 00:13:38,225 naturally start to buy more stuff and, and, and often buy more expensive stuff. 287 00:13:38,705 --> 00:13:40,776 So, so that's the whole ethos behind what we're doing. 288 00:13:40,915 --> 00:13:43,445 And it, it doesn't mean that we are gonna do some different stuff, 289 00:13:43,535 --> 00:13:45,275 you know, some of what we do. 290 00:13:45,965 --> 00:13:49,655 Hasn't been seen before on e-commerce sites, but it's pretty obvious 291 00:13:49,655 --> 00:13:50,765 how it works once you see it. 292 00:13:51,515 --> 00:13:54,865 Um, but it's, it's there to try and change the experience for that customer. 293 00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:56,780 That was a very long answer, by the way. 294 00:13:56,785 --> 00:13:57,030 Yeah. 295 00:13:57,380 --> 00:13:59,450 For a very, but, you know, 296 00:14:01,550 --> 00:14:03,830 um, tends to be the way Alan, I'm not gonna lie. 297 00:14:04,130 --> 00:14:07,220 Uh, but it's, I mean, I'm listening to you is fascinating cuz there's, I 298 00:14:07,220 --> 00:14:12,560 mean there's a lot of, um, uh, little nuggets in what you've said there, um, 299 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:16,670 that I, that are sort of, they're easy to sort of slip, slip off the tongue. 300 00:14:17,450 --> 00:14:22,655 Um, The sick of paying Google for my own customers, uh, I thought 301 00:14:22,655 --> 00:14:23,915 was an interesting statement. 302 00:14:24,485 --> 00:14:32,135 Um, personalization tools not working, uh, because they push product to the customer 303 00:14:32,195 --> 00:14:33,845 and they don't think about the customer. 304 00:14:34,475 --> 00:14:34,535 Yeah. 305 00:14:34,565 --> 00:14:37,815 Um, and then this other thing, the Buggy Baby example that you 306 00:14:38,105 --> 00:14:39,155 gave, I thought was really good. 307 00:14:39,155 --> 00:14:40,505 So there's a few things in there. 308 00:14:40,505 --> 00:14:44,195 I've made notes, Alan, cuz you know, I like to make notes and. 309 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,740 Um, I want to jump into some of these a little bit, expand on them, and I'm very 310 00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:52,160 curious to know what you think has to be done differently in e-commerce, which 311 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,360 was what you said towards the end there. 312 00:14:53,390 --> 00:14:54,680 We have to do stuff differently. 313 00:14:55,310 --> 00:15:02,180 Um, and, um, I, I'm, I'm curious to jump into that as well, if that's so, so 314 00:15:02,180 --> 00:15:05,030 there's a whole bunch of stuff, so your long answer is given me a whole great deal 315 00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:07,750 of stuff to ask you about, so that's good. 316 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:11,765 Um, So let's start at the end. 317 00:15:11,885 --> 00:15:14,795 Um, you say you have to do things differently in e-commerce. 318 00:15:14,795 --> 00:15:17,195 What do you think needs to be done differently? 319 00:15:18,485 --> 00:15:22,055 So the starting point is we gotta start selling through service. 320 00:15:22,115 --> 00:15:24,695 We got, so actually, let's take a step back. 321 00:15:25,265 --> 00:15:27,905 One thing I say to a lot of retailers is you, the only parts of the 322 00:15:27,905 --> 00:15:29,555 internet you own is your store. 323 00:15:30,110 --> 00:15:31,010 So it's time to own it. 324 00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:32,030 Really own it, yeah. 325 00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:32,660 Okay. 326 00:15:32,660 --> 00:15:38,570 So you regard, most people manage their store, like they manage a shelf. 327 00:15:39,710 --> 00:15:39,890 Okay. 328 00:15:39,890 --> 00:15:44,120 They stack 'em high and they hope things happen and they, yes, they, they do all 329 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,540 that other stuff, but they're not really trying to differentiate on the experience. 330 00:15:47,630 --> 00:15:52,715 So for me, What we do is, I mentioned that phrase at the start of we 331 00:15:52,715 --> 00:15:54,725 create a unique store per customer. 332 00:15:54,755 --> 00:15:59,285 So if you go on to one of our customers stores, after one product 333 00:15:59,285 --> 00:16:03,125 view, elements of the store will start to bring product towards you. 334 00:16:03,965 --> 00:16:07,025 And not just on the product detail page, but everywhere through the site. 335 00:16:07,505 --> 00:16:10,295 So when you search for stuff, we should be referencing stuff 336 00:16:10,295 --> 00:16:11,435 that it's interesting for you. 337 00:16:11,945 --> 00:16:13,790 Again you've shown some propensity for it. 338 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,190 When you leave and you come back tomorrow, you should be instantly 339 00:16:16,190 --> 00:16:19,730 start to be brought back and expanded out from where you were yesterday. 340 00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:24,080 So, you know, if you look at hoodies, then there's jeans and there's shoes 341 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,810 and there's, and, and most people think of this cross as cross sell, but 342 00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:29,970 actually if you do it really well and you change the experience, it feels 343 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:32,630 like you're building a store for the customer in front of them instead 344 00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:33,800 of trying to do a hard sell on them. 345 00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:34,730 Right. 346 00:16:35,540 --> 00:16:38,540 Um, one of the things in the very. 347 00:16:39,245 --> 00:16:42,305 Probably in the first few weeks of, of, of Shop Box one company. 348 00:16:42,305 --> 00:16:46,805 I talked to an apparel company and they talked about the shopping journey 349 00:16:46,805 --> 00:16:51,065 being about 30 days on average for somebody to buy an expensive dress. 350 00:16:51,395 --> 00:16:51,485 Mm-hmm. 351 00:16:52,115 --> 00:16:53,105 I mean, that's interesting. 352 00:16:54,035 --> 00:16:57,306 What's, what's the problem then said, the problem is we miss the first 29 days. 353 00:16:57,311 --> 00:16:58,895 Cause all we're trying to do is sell the dress. 354 00:16:59,465 --> 00:17:05,075 So we miss, we've missed every decision point that customer made along the way. 355 00:17:05,675 --> 00:17:08,285 And then what we're trying to do is compete on price to get it over the line. 356 00:17:09,335 --> 00:17:10,325 So we gotta change that. 357 00:17:10,685 --> 00:17:14,855 And the way to change that is to start making everything about the customer. 358 00:17:14,885 --> 00:17:17,465 I'll give you a really good, simple example of one thing we 359 00:17:17,465 --> 00:17:18,665 do, which is very effective. 360 00:17:19,655 --> 00:17:22,925 Um, and, and then I'll, I'll move on to, to, to, to something that 361 00:17:22,925 --> 00:17:24,335 we, we released quite recently. 362 00:17:24,815 --> 00:17:26,645 So even thing called a curated homepage. 363 00:17:27,525 --> 00:17:31,235 Every homepage apart from Amazon is a branding exercise. 364 00:17:31,235 --> 00:17:32,555 It's nothing to do with your customers. 365 00:17:34,685 --> 00:17:36,965 I would say to every listener, go and have a quick look at Amazon. 366 00:17:36,965 --> 00:17:40,685 Now, the top of the Amazon screen is about Amazon's branding. 367 00:17:41,045 --> 00:17:42,365 The bottom is about the customer. 368 00:17:42,505 --> 00:17:42,925 Mm-hmm. 369 00:17:43,355 --> 00:17:45,305 So they're taking millions of products and they're finding 10 or 370 00:17:45,305 --> 00:17:46,625 20 things that might inspire you. 371 00:17:47,075 --> 00:17:50,105 I'm not gonna see the vast majority of categories Amazon ever has. 372 00:17:50,675 --> 00:17:53,535 Yeah, because it had interesting for me and Amazon knows that, okay? 373 00:17:53,535 --> 00:17:53,855 Mm-hmm. 374 00:17:54,185 --> 00:17:56,735 We've started to introduce that technology to pretty much any store. 375 00:17:56,795 --> 00:18:02,045 So with one simple change to a site, yes you keep your branding, but once I show 376 00:18:02,255 --> 00:18:06,905 what I'm interested in you, the rest of that page starts to become about me. 377 00:18:07,325 --> 00:18:07,685 Okay. 378 00:18:07,685 --> 00:18:10,385 Just throw me into, into things that I haven't thought about before. 379 00:18:11,045 --> 00:18:15,095 Now we've started to move that whole concept on, so now we're 380 00:18:15,095 --> 00:18:17,765 creating what we call a personal shopping space in every store. 381 00:18:17,975 --> 00:18:18,815 So, okay. 382 00:18:18,820 --> 00:18:21,935 Every customer that comes on and, and actually, let me take a quick 383 00:18:21,940 --> 00:18:26,285 step back cause I, I, I've started to talk to retailers about, there's 384 00:18:26,465 --> 00:18:29,525 essentially three major areas. 385 00:18:30,425 --> 00:18:34,415 That you're in, in e-commerce, most of us only care about two. 386 00:18:34,565 --> 00:18:36,785 And the third one is something that we're really introducing now. 387 00:18:36,875 --> 00:18:38,465 So the first one is a competitive space. 388 00:18:39,065 --> 00:18:41,495 When you're competing on Google, you're in a competitive space. 389 00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:43,865 Your job is to get them outta Google onto your store. 390 00:18:43,955 --> 00:18:44,435 Full stop. 391 00:18:44,435 --> 00:18:44,645 Yep. 392 00:18:45,245 --> 00:18:45,455 Okay. 393 00:18:46,175 --> 00:18:48,935 The second you get 'em onto your store, everyone thinks, oh, the job's done. 394 00:18:49,205 --> 00:18:51,605 So the job is only started now your job is started. 395 00:18:51,935 --> 00:18:52,715 They don't go back. 396 00:18:53,135 --> 00:18:56,555 The second they hit that back button, that 5, 10, 15 quid you 397 00:18:56,555 --> 00:18:58,205 just spent, that's just been wasted. 398 00:18:58,655 --> 00:19:01,655 In fact, it's been spent to attract the customer to your competitor. 399 00:19:01,745 --> 00:19:03,035 So yeah, you don't wanna do that. 400 00:19:03,785 --> 00:19:08,195 So our first job in in Shop Box, we have components we call the AI shop assistant. 401 00:19:08,195 --> 00:19:10,925 That allows you to get very deep into the store very fast. 402 00:19:11,155 --> 00:19:15,515 So it allows a customer to start having a guided experience 403 00:19:15,515 --> 00:19:16,625 from the second they land. 404 00:19:17,105 --> 00:19:17,405 Okay. 405 00:19:18,005 --> 00:19:19,685 And it's up to the customer to engage with this. 406 00:19:19,685 --> 00:19:22,385 We're not trying to force the customer down a route. 407 00:19:22,565 --> 00:19:25,985 We're trying to make it really easy for them to explore much more deeply. 408 00:19:26,145 --> 00:19:26,435 Okay? 409 00:19:26,465 --> 00:19:26,755 Okay. 410 00:19:27,785 --> 00:19:32,855 Once we get that, after just a single product view, we start 411 00:19:32,855 --> 00:19:34,715 building a customer shopping space. 412 00:19:34,745 --> 00:19:38,195 So a for you place, we have customers, we have a wine store 413 00:19:38,195 --> 00:19:39,405 that calls it your Sommelier. 414 00:19:39,965 --> 00:19:40,175 Okay. 415 00:19:40,175 --> 00:19:43,535 We have a store that's, I love this one cause I love bad puns. 416 00:19:43,925 --> 00:19:46,895 Uh, but we have a store that sells a lot of woollen products. 417 00:19:47,225 --> 00:19:47,405 Yeah. 418 00:19:47,405 --> 00:19:48,735 They call just for Ewe. 419 00:19:48,755 --> 00:19:49,655 E W E. 420 00:19:50,225 --> 00:19:50,555 Okay. 421 00:19:50,915 --> 00:19:51,155 Yeah. 422 00:19:51,215 --> 00:19:52,025 They like their puns. 423 00:19:52,535 --> 00:19:56,285 But the whole point is after just one product click, there's now a place 424 00:19:56,285 --> 00:19:59,195 in that store that belongs to me as a customer, not to the retailer anymore. 425 00:19:59,885 --> 00:20:04,460 And our job is to constantly, Um, find new, interesting things for that 426 00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:07,280 customer all the time, and not just what they're looking at now, but here's some 427 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,070 new stuff that you didn't think about and you haven't been back for a week. 428 00:20:10,250 --> 00:20:12,830 Well, we got some new stuff that is nice and shiny and new. 429 00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:16,850 And by the way, for the retailer I margin, uh, here's some promos 430 00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:17,810 that would be interesting for you. 431 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,300 So, you know, sale pages are just a representation of a bargain 432 00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:24,380 basement to a large degree. 433 00:20:24,380 --> 00:20:25,970 It's random product that never fits you. 434 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,290 Yeah, well we, we change that. 435 00:20:27,290 --> 00:20:29,840 We say, look, you're interested in this stuff and we know your size, so 436 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,270 let's, let's go and find you some stuff that might be interesting for you. 437 00:20:32,450 --> 00:20:32,660 Mm-hmm. 438 00:20:32,930 --> 00:20:32,960 Okay. 439 00:20:33,170 --> 00:20:34,370 Just fire different neurons. 440 00:20:34,370 --> 00:20:36,410 Make a nice, a nice place for the customer. 441 00:20:36,650 --> 00:20:40,370 Now the point of that is once somebody's on that part of the site, 442 00:20:40,370 --> 00:20:44,280 it becomes much more difficult to go to a generic store competitor store, 443 00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:45,860 cuz you gotta start all over again. 444 00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:45,920 Yeah. 445 00:20:46,340 --> 00:20:51,350 There's no suggestions, no service and we're, our retailers are, are 446 00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:55,160 using that in their emails to try and, you know, when they make a sale. 447 00:20:55,895 --> 00:20:59,135 Have a button on the email to bring somebody back into the personal shopping 448 00:20:59,135 --> 00:21:02,195 space so that you're trying to keep them in a place where it's all about 449 00:21:02,195 --> 00:21:04,805 them and yeah, they can go out into the rest of the store, but, but let's 450 00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:08,765 try, and every time they go out, let's make that personal space reflect that. 451 00:21:09,635 --> 00:21:09,785 Okay. 452 00:21:09,785 --> 00:21:10,925 So I like, I like that. 453 00:21:10,925 --> 00:21:12,765 I like the idea of the personalized shopping space. 454 00:21:13,445 --> 00:21:18,665 Um, it's a bit like, um, if I can use this analogy and correct me if I've, 455 00:21:18,725 --> 00:21:22,055 if I've, if I've misunderstood Alan, if I'm, if I'm not getting what you're 456 00:21:22,055 --> 00:21:25,445 saying, but it's a bit like going into quite a, a high end department store. 457 00:21:25,445 --> 00:21:28,295 You can shop around the floor with everybody else, or you can have 458 00:21:28,295 --> 00:21:31,416 a concierge take you over to this section and they're gonna bring 459 00:21:31,421 --> 00:21:33,245 some tailored products just for you. 460 00:21:33,335 --> 00:21:35,345 And they're gonna give you a glass of champagne while you. 461 00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:37,540 While they, while they wait on, you hand and foot, right? 462 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,220 We haven't figured out the glass of champagne, but I'm 463 00:21:41,770 --> 00:21:43,480 obviously making notes right now. 464 00:21:45,370 --> 00:21:47,980 When you figure that out, come back on the show and tell us how the hell you 465 00:21:47,985 --> 00:21:49,360 did that, because that would be amazing. 466 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:55,055 Um, That's, I mean, I, I like, I like the principle, I like the philosophy 467 00:21:55,055 --> 00:21:58,475 of that and using your e-commerce website to create that experience. 468 00:21:58,475 --> 00:22:02,405 It's not just, I'm gonna throw random stuff, um, at you, 469 00:22:02,405 --> 00:22:03,755 but this is curated to you. 470 00:22:03,755 --> 00:22:06,125 We're gonna make you feel like this is unique and special. 471 00:22:06,575 --> 00:22:08,855 This is not what you're getting on a competitor's site. 472 00:22:09,085 --> 00:22:10,475 Um, I like that. 473 00:22:10,475 --> 00:22:13,565 And just to backtrack a little bit, you said one of your strategies was to 474 00:22:13,565 --> 00:22:15,845 draw people in deep into the website. 475 00:22:16,445 --> 00:22:16,505 Yeah. 476 00:22:17,495 --> 00:22:17,645 Is. 477 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,490 Is that how you do that with that personalized shopping experience? 478 00:22:22,490 --> 00:22:25,400 Or are there other strategies which you have, which draw people in deep? 479 00:22:26,455 --> 00:22:29,315 Um, there's quite a few, so everything we do is about that. 480 00:22:29,375 --> 00:22:31,115 It's about constantly giving people back. 481 00:22:31,115 --> 00:22:33,545 So typically we see people spend about five times longer 482 00:22:33,545 --> 00:22:35,045 in a store with shop box. 483 00:22:35,435 --> 00:22:35,585 Mm-hmm. 484 00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:39,155 Uh, and that's, that's really important for us because the uplift, 485 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,365 the uplift is typically about three, three times increase in conversion. 486 00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:44,780 But that's driven by behavior change. 487 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:45,200 Okay. 488 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,770 So I always say if you see an, if you see a commercial metric change, 489 00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:49,790 you gotta be able to push it. 490 00:22:49,940 --> 00:22:51,680 You gotta be able to figure out where it came from. 491 00:22:51,980 --> 00:22:54,020 So we can see that in the number of products and the 492 00:22:54,020 --> 00:22:55,130 time they're spending on site. 493 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,980 But everything we do is about constantly drawing the 494 00:22:57,980 --> 00:22:59,390 customer deeper into the store. 495 00:23:00,065 --> 00:23:02,885 You know, the same way in a physical store, that's what shop assistants do. 496 00:23:02,885 --> 00:23:02,945 Yeah. 497 00:23:03,065 --> 00:23:03,725 That's how you lay out. 498 00:23:04,595 --> 00:23:06,875 You use the shop assistant to guide you. 499 00:23:06,965 --> 00:23:08,075 That's, that's what they're there for. 500 00:23:08,075 --> 00:23:10,475 That's what makes your store more, you know, unique 501 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,705 compared to the one next door. 502 00:23:11,765 --> 00:23:11,855 Mm-hmm. 503 00:23:11,885 --> 00:23:16,235 We all have the same, but the shop A makes it a different experience. 504 00:23:16,625 --> 00:23:19,415 So that's a, so we're trying to do that everywhere you go on a site. 505 00:23:19,835 --> 00:23:20,105 Yeah. 506 00:23:20,115 --> 00:23:24,125 No, it's a clever idea because, I mean, just the logic of a, a 507 00:23:24,125 --> 00:23:27,395 traditional store, the deeper I'm into it, the harder it is to leave. 508 00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:28,070 Right. 509 00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:30,080 Or the further I've gotta go to get out of it. 510 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,950 So, um, yeah, you can see that the reason why you would want to do this. 511 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:34,970 Yeah. 512 00:23:34,970 --> 00:23:39,030 And for me, it, it's kind of a funny one, one of the things, so I I, 513 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,940 I often talk to people about, um, what we forgot when we moved online. 514 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,570 So we spent 150 years learning how to manage a store and we, haven't 515 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:49,370 stopped learning by the way. 516 00:23:49,370 --> 00:23:50,370 It's changing every day. 517 00:23:50,980 --> 00:23:52,715 And we forgot it all when we went online. 518 00:23:52,715 --> 00:23:54,845 So I'm gonna give you a couple of simple examples. 519 00:23:54,935 --> 00:23:57,935 And you see these retailers, you can nearly see them cry. 520 00:23:58,475 --> 00:24:03,385 Um, no shop assistant would come out of a stockroom without a box. 521 00:24:03,765 --> 00:24:04,185 Mm-hmm. 522 00:24:04,575 --> 00:24:04,865 Okay. 523 00:24:05,225 --> 00:24:07,685 They wouldn't, they wouldn't go into the stockroom a second time 524 00:24:07,685 --> 00:24:08,555 because they wouldn't have a job. 525 00:24:08,775 --> 00:24:09,065 Okay. 526 00:24:09,065 --> 00:24:11,355 So we never come outta the stockroom empty handed. 527 00:24:11,685 --> 00:24:14,135 But we're absolutely thrilled about telling people online 528 00:24:14,135 --> 00:24:14,885 that we have no product. 529 00:24:15,860 --> 00:24:17,050 You know, we're all out of stock. 530 00:24:17,050 --> 00:24:19,880 Woohoo You can call it outta stock, you know? 531 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,705 So it's, um, when did we decide that was a good idea? 532 00:24:24,195 --> 00:24:26,060 We decided offline it wasn't. 533 00:24:26,150 --> 00:24:30,170 So we need to constantly move people to what we do have, cuz that's, 534 00:24:30,170 --> 00:24:31,170 that's all we can help 'em with. 535 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,970 So, uh, and the mechanism for us was, oh, we don't have any, 536 00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:36,170 give us your email address. 537 00:24:36,260 --> 00:24:38,870 So let's create friction more and more friction. 538 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,200 Let's not create friction, let's make it easy for somebody to move on. 539 00:24:42,665 --> 00:24:42,935 Okay. 540 00:24:43,235 --> 00:24:48,365 We also decided that it was just about the product that people only cared about price 541 00:24:48,365 --> 00:24:50,915 and they only cared about the product that they were already searching for. 542 00:24:51,065 --> 00:24:52,230 But that's not what we do in stores. 543 00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:53,945 In stores we're there to inspire people. 544 00:24:54,215 --> 00:24:55,585 Yeah, so for me, it's. 545 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,760 That thing of drawing people into the store. 546 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,490 It's not about trying to, you know, kidnap them into the back of the store 547 00:25:01,490 --> 00:25:05,300 so they handcuff them and gag them. 548 00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:12,380 I'll come back to the glass of champagne that, that takes the edge off that one. 549 00:25:14,540 --> 00:25:15,530 Shopping's fun. 550 00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:15,880 Yeah. 551 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:20,030 You know, most of the stuff, most of us have, we don't need. 552 00:25:20,750 --> 00:25:21,380 It's fun. 553 00:25:21,530 --> 00:25:24,880 It's, it's, it's, it's stuff we want and it's, it's, it's. 554 00:25:25,115 --> 00:25:26,885 We, and we always want a better product. 555 00:25:26,885 --> 00:25:32,645 What we discovered, um, very early in the days shop box is if you suggest 556 00:25:32,645 --> 00:25:36,335 stuff in an intelligent way that feels like service, people will tend to buy a 557 00:25:36,335 --> 00:25:37,805 better version of what they're looking at. 558 00:25:38,125 --> 00:25:38,415 Yeah. 559 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,060 Generally don't buy what they comfort. 560 00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:43,760 They ne normally go, uh, an extra 10 pounds. 561 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,690 An extra $10. 562 00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:45,080 Yeah. 563 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:45,530 Why not? 564 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:46,610 It's a nicer product. 565 00:25:46,615 --> 00:25:46,670 Yeah. 566 00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:50,390 I, I saw a great quote recently, uh, can't remember who was from, but said, 567 00:25:50,690 --> 00:25:53,960 you know, you'll remember the value of the product a lot longer after you, after 568 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,700 you, way after you've forgotten the price. 569 00:25:55,900 --> 00:25:56,190 Yeah. 570 00:25:56,730 --> 00:26:01,580 And I think that's what retail really is, is, is, is to build up and. 571 00:26:02,435 --> 00:26:04,865 And that's why I think we forgot that when we moved online, we said 572 00:26:04,865 --> 00:26:07,505 it's just about having the product and making it easy to find and then 573 00:26:07,505 --> 00:26:08,765 they'll figure it out themselves. 574 00:26:09,395 --> 00:26:10,715 That's not the way retail works. 575 00:26:10,745 --> 00:26:11,285 It shouldn't be. 576 00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:13,000 Yeah. 577 00:26:13,020 --> 00:26:16,850 So the, well, there's some of the things, there's a lot more things that, 578 00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:18,110 that we've kind of forgotten online. 579 00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:19,610 But, uh, there's some of the things. 580 00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:24,380 I, I think it's a really interesting and insightful conversation, just getting 581 00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:26,600 back to, to basics in a lot of ways. 582 00:26:26,740 --> 00:26:31,280 Um, Alan, um, I'm curious by this statement that you mentioned about 583 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,900 the, the dress shop that said there was a 30 day transactional period. 584 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:36,440 Yeah. 585 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,930 And they missed the first 29 days. 586 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:40,010 You know, they missed that. 587 00:26:40,490 --> 00:26:44,900 That sort of, um, process in the customer, which I think is a really 588 00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:50,240 powerful, um, it's really powerful pictorially to think about that, isn't it? 589 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,960 That you know that your customer comes, they're gonna go away during that time. 590 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,760 They're away, they're gonna make some decisions. 591 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,770 And if you are not there, present with them, um, it's, it's harder to 592 00:27:00,775 --> 00:27:03,980 remember who you are, I suppose, unless you are, you know, a specific, like a 593 00:27:03,980 --> 00:27:06,410 Tesla, you have to go back to Tesla. 594 00:27:06,410 --> 00:27:13,445 But, um, What are some of the strategies then that you've seen work well, 595 00:27:13,985 --> 00:27:17,255 um, through Shop Box, through your experience in e-commerce, through use of 596 00:27:17,260 --> 00:27:24,485 technology, um, just going into a store which helps you get into those 29 days. 597 00:27:25,505 --> 00:27:29,675 So I think the first thing is you've gotta figure out, and this is the first 598 00:27:29,675 --> 00:27:34,085 thing we did, was how do you figure out how to help the customer find. 599 00:27:35,090 --> 00:27:36,560 Interesting stuff quickly. 600 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:37,580 Okay. 601 00:27:37,580 --> 00:27:44,090 So the very first thing we, uh, um, went live with whatever three years ago was 602 00:27:44,095 --> 00:27:45,710 thing we call the AI shop assistant. 603 00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:46,340 Mm-hmm. 604 00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:48,200 And we don't call it that in the store. 605 00:27:48,260 --> 00:27:51,050 In the store, you brand it yourself, but the whole point 606 00:27:51,050 --> 00:27:52,400 is that you can shop by example. 607 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,710 So you see something you like and you can say, I, I like that. 608 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,430 And without it trying to take you to a different part of the store. 609 00:27:59,195 --> 00:28:01,745 You start to see a lot more product that's interesting for you. 610 00:28:02,045 --> 00:28:02,135 Mm-hmm. 611 00:28:02,375 --> 00:28:06,815 Now there's a lot of subtlety goes on here, and this is where I think e-commerce 612 00:28:06,820 --> 00:28:09,005 is, uh, uh, is too transactional. 613 00:28:10,505 --> 00:28:13,115 Uh, we're all used to looking at one product and it follows 614 00:28:13,115 --> 00:28:14,285 around the internet for two year. 615 00:28:14,315 --> 00:28:14,855 Two weeks. 616 00:28:14,855 --> 00:28:15,425 Mm-hmm. 617 00:28:15,495 --> 00:28:15,785 Yeah. 618 00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:19,640 I personally believe most, most shoppers are quite intelligent. 619 00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:21,830 They can figure out product themselves, okay? 620 00:28:21,835 --> 00:28:21,840 Mm-hmm. 621 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:22,520 Our job is to help. 622 00:28:23,030 --> 00:28:23,270 Okay? 623 00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:26,030 So my job is not to find the perfect product and to 624 00:28:26,035 --> 00:28:26,960 force it down their throats. 625 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,960 My job is to make it an experience where they'll naturally find the 626 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,370 products that are interesting for them. 627 00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:31,760 Yeah. 628 00:28:31,910 --> 00:28:32,750 By me curating. 629 00:28:32,990 --> 00:28:35,160 So you, you mentioned the word curation earlier on. 630 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,390 Curating is not about finding the perfect product, it's about 631 00:28:38,395 --> 00:28:40,040 having a nice selection that, that. 632 00:28:40,305 --> 00:28:43,275 That has, we call it, um, variety with context. 633 00:28:43,545 --> 00:28:43,665 Yeah. 634 00:28:43,665 --> 00:28:46,065 So you have the context of the customer, well, let's show 'em some variety. 635 00:28:46,065 --> 00:28:48,045 Give them, give 'em some space to work in. 636 00:28:48,465 --> 00:28:48,645 Okay. 637 00:28:49,095 --> 00:28:54,165 So I think opening it up and allowing people to explore, but without 638 00:28:54,534 --> 00:28:55,695 throwing random stuff at them. 639 00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:56,035 Mm-hmm. 640 00:28:56,355 --> 00:28:58,035 And by the way, I've seen, I've seen random sites. 641 00:28:58,305 --> 00:29:02,295 We had one site where you looked at a pair of work boots and you saw, I think 642 00:29:02,295 --> 00:29:03,765 it was a coffee machine beside them. 643 00:29:04,275 --> 00:29:05,625 And, and I was looking going. 644 00:29:06,485 --> 00:29:07,115 What's that? 645 00:29:07,295 --> 00:29:11,345 What, like I know that people work and drink coffee, but that's 646 00:29:11,345 --> 00:29:13,235 the only relationship I can see between those two products. 647 00:29:14,625 --> 00:29:15,755 And, and you see that everywhere. 648 00:29:15,755 --> 00:29:15,815 Yeah. 649 00:29:16,175 --> 00:29:20,945 But, um, so I think that variety with context concept is really important. 650 00:29:21,215 --> 00:29:25,985 The other thing we do is, I, I don't like the phrase cross sell. 651 00:29:26,645 --> 00:29:32,435 Because it feels like I'm, you know, I'm running a, a, a customer through a filter. 652 00:29:32,435 --> 00:29:32,495 Yeah. 653 00:29:32,645 --> 00:29:34,055 It's time for me to cross you now. 654 00:29:34,505 --> 00:29:34,625 Yeah. 655 00:29:34,625 --> 00:29:36,275 So, so we try to be quite fuzzy. 656 00:29:36,695 --> 00:29:41,735 So when we, when when somebody shows interest, I don't see that we should try 657 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:44,615 and force that sale and then add stuff on. 658 00:29:45,155 --> 00:29:46,055 Now we can do that. 659 00:29:46,145 --> 00:29:49,115 You know, it's always good to add stuff on at the right moment, 660 00:29:49,445 --> 00:29:51,995 but right up front you say, look, you're interested in a floral dress, 661 00:29:51,995 --> 00:29:53,105 by the way, here's a straw hat. 662 00:29:53,735 --> 00:29:54,065 Mm-hmm. 663 00:29:54,455 --> 00:29:57,155 Because there's a whole look going on there, but, but 664 00:29:57,155 --> 00:29:58,295 we leave that way too late. 665 00:29:58,335 --> 00:30:01,955 We, we leave it to the person's nearly bought bought and we said, let's try 666 00:30:01,955 --> 00:30:05,885 and add all this stuff on, start to show that stuff much, much earlier. 667 00:30:06,005 --> 00:30:09,875 So yeah, we are in very, very different parts of the site to where you nor 668 00:30:09,905 --> 00:30:12,915 traditionally see personalization, but we'll also used very different 669 00:30:12,915 --> 00:30:16,715 mechanisms and we're much fuzzier because it's much more about trying 670 00:30:16,715 --> 00:30:18,005 to get the context of the customer. 671 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,420 And much less about let's try and close the sale. 672 00:30:20,810 --> 00:30:22,310 But naturally the sale will close. 673 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,730 The, the thing is, if you give people space and give them 674 00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:28,040 service, they will buy more stuff. 675 00:30:28,490 --> 00:30:29,720 And, and that's how stores work. 676 00:30:30,050 --> 00:30:31,160 That's how physical stores work. 677 00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:34,700 So, uh, I like that. 678 00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:38,420 Get the context, uh, context of the customer before trying to close the sale. 679 00:30:38,660 --> 00:30:41,240 Um, that's actually quite a great phrase, isn't it? 680 00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:44,750 Um, trying to understand your customer before you try and close the sale. 681 00:30:45,305 --> 00:30:45,485 Yeah. 682 00:30:46,355 --> 00:30:50,315 So that's where, um, me as an e-commerce entrepreneur, I'm sitting there thinking, 683 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,385 well, I like that in theory, in reality. 684 00:30:53,255 --> 00:30:54,605 How the hell do I do that? 685 00:30:54,610 --> 00:30:54,905 Right? 686 00:30:54,905 --> 00:30:57,995 Because, um, it's, it sounds ideal. 687 00:30:57,995 --> 00:31:02,945 And I suppose that's where AI is, is and technology is becoming more 688 00:31:02,945 --> 00:31:07,055 and more accessible for me as a small time retailer versus people 689 00:31:07,055 --> 00:31:10,445 like Amazon that have, you know, got thousands of coders figuring this out. 690 00:31:11,435 --> 00:31:14,135 Um, So I, I get that. 691 00:31:14,135 --> 00:31:17,195 I, I get that technology is, is now, it's now possible to start 692 00:31:17,195 --> 00:31:19,145 using technology to help me do this. 693 00:31:19,175 --> 00:31:21,875 You just have to think, I think slightly differently in how you, in 694 00:31:21,875 --> 00:31:23,105 how you set up your store, don't you? 695 00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:24,485 And how you, how you go about it. 696 00:31:25,085 --> 00:31:25,295 Yeah. 697 00:31:25,345 --> 00:31:25,635 Yeah. 698 00:31:26,765 --> 00:31:29,495 So I guess, sorry, go ahead there Matt. 699 00:31:30,005 --> 00:31:33,215 I was gonna say, I guess one question I had though Alan listening to you 700 00:31:33,215 --> 00:31:37,025 talk is the, um, curate variety idea. 701 00:31:37,535 --> 00:31:43,610 Um, How does that work if I have a site that only has half a dozen 702 00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:46,520 products or a dozen products and I'm not, I'm not Amazon with a thousand 703 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,810 products, Do you know what I mean? 704 00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:54,110 I have 12 types of sun cream, or I have 20 types of T-shirt and that's it. 705 00:31:54,110 --> 00:31:54,440 You know? 706 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:55,370 Yeah. 707 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,460 So I would say that we are not a good fit for that. 708 00:31:59,660 --> 00:32:00,710 Really straightforward with you. 709 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,500 Generally, we tend to add value when there's about 300 SKUs operates. 710 00:32:06,185 --> 00:32:06,365 Right. 711 00:32:06,365 --> 00:32:09,425 There's no upper limit, but you generally want about 300. 712 00:32:09,515 --> 00:32:13,865 So we have a couple of clients who are less than 300, um, and that works 713 00:32:13,870 --> 00:32:15,665 well cuz there's variety within that. 714 00:32:15,665 --> 00:32:17,495 So we'd always take a cold hard look. 715 00:32:17,495 --> 00:32:19,625 And I, I've turned up for customer meetings where I said, look, I, 716 00:32:19,630 --> 00:32:20,645 I don't think we're a good fit. 717 00:32:20,915 --> 00:32:24,305 I'm quite happy to explain to you what we do because some of what I do, some 718 00:32:24,305 --> 00:32:26,675 of what we think might be useful to you. 719 00:32:26,855 --> 00:32:30,095 So I'm quite happy to have a conversation with a retailer because the odd one 720 00:32:30,095 --> 00:32:33,455 turns around and says, actually, There's other things happening in our store 721 00:32:33,455 --> 00:32:34,955 that means people can't find product. 722 00:32:35,135 --> 00:32:35,375 Okay. 723 00:32:35,380 --> 00:32:35,555 Yeah. 724 00:32:35,935 --> 00:32:38,615 You're, you're selling 12 varieties of sunscreen. 725 00:32:38,975 --> 00:32:41,375 The chances are that somebody has arrived to buy those. 726 00:32:41,855 --> 00:32:45,665 Yeah, there's, there's limited opportunity for curation cuz it's kind 727 00:32:45,665 --> 00:32:46,925 of happened before they've arrived. 728 00:32:47,435 --> 00:32:49,625 But for most retailers, that's not the case. 729 00:32:49,625 --> 00:32:52,475 For most retailers they've enough product and they have enough. 730 00:32:53,045 --> 00:32:56,490 Um, They, they, they've enough scope to add to the product catalog. 731 00:32:56,900 --> 00:32:58,580 They're constantly adding new products. 732 00:32:58,580 --> 00:33:03,410 There's new seasons, yada yada, that, um, they need to manage that. 733 00:33:04,670 --> 00:33:08,180 Without curation, customers are, are never gonna find the pr, all the products. 734 00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:13,280 We have customers where if you look at their, um, when we went on 735 00:33:14,180 --> 00:33:16,610 about 10% of the product catalog is driving most of the sales. 736 00:33:18,170 --> 00:33:18,350 Okay. 737 00:33:18,350 --> 00:33:19,790 And that's not a great place to be. 738 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:20,330 No. 739 00:33:21,570 --> 00:33:26,900 One, one of the things we talk about a lot is, um, let's say, 740 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,270 let's say the, the bias word, okay. 741 00:33:29,270 --> 00:33:30,920 Bias is really important in ai. 742 00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:31,160 Mm-hmm. 743 00:33:31,850 --> 00:33:34,625 Um, And, and people need to understand what it is. 744 00:33:34,625 --> 00:33:39,275 So typically when, when we say the word bias, people think about race or gender, 745 00:33:39,275 --> 00:33:42,545 whatever, because models have been trained and they haven't taken account 746 00:33:42,545 --> 00:33:43,955 of the full population, yada yada. 747 00:33:44,285 --> 00:33:44,345 Yeah. 748 00:33:44,345 --> 00:33:45,455 That, that, that's not good. 749 00:33:46,055 --> 00:33:50,805 But bias within what we do actually has a commercial, a negative commercial 750 00:33:50,805 --> 00:33:52,445 impact if it's not managed properly. 751 00:33:52,445 --> 00:33:52,645 Mm-hmm. 752 00:33:52,715 --> 00:33:52,925 Okay. 753 00:33:52,925 --> 00:33:58,985 So what happens in most retailers is when they apply AI, the people who are doing 754 00:33:58,985 --> 00:34:00,425 it don't actually understand retail. 755 00:34:00,485 --> 00:34:03,635 So what they do is they do a and we all know it, people 756 00:34:03,635 --> 00:34:04,925 who like this also like this. 757 00:34:05,285 --> 00:34:05,465 Yeah. 758 00:34:05,465 --> 00:34:05,675 Great. 759 00:34:06,785 --> 00:34:10,445 That drives the average customer to the best seller products. 760 00:34:10,505 --> 00:34:14,045 So your, your catalog is gradually shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. 761 00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:14,375 Yeah. 762 00:34:15,094 --> 00:34:17,795 And you think you're doing really well because people are claiming sales, but 763 00:34:17,795 --> 00:34:19,054 actually you're killing your business. 764 00:34:19,264 --> 00:34:20,165 You're killing your margins. 765 00:34:20,165 --> 00:34:21,935 You're creating what we call the long tail problem. 766 00:34:22,685 --> 00:34:22,925 Okay? 767 00:34:23,614 --> 00:34:27,605 We've, we recognized that and one of the things we wanted to do in shop Box 768 00:34:27,610 --> 00:34:30,755 was say, actually AI needs to serve retail, not the other way around. 769 00:34:31,295 --> 00:34:35,615 So we built something that from the ground up, understands product, even within 770 00:34:35,615 --> 00:34:37,264 seconds of it landing on the catalog. 771 00:34:37,264 --> 00:34:40,685 So typically about five seconds after something hits the catalog, 772 00:34:40,685 --> 00:34:41,764 we find customers for it. 773 00:34:42,430 --> 00:34:42,580 Right. 774 00:34:42,580 --> 00:34:45,880 What that means is long tail product starts moving, so you don't have 775 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,610 to start discounting everything three weeks after you put it on the 776 00:34:48,610 --> 00:34:50,290 catalog because it ain't selling. 777 00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:50,860 Yeah. 778 00:34:50,860 --> 00:34:51,100 Okay. 779 00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:55,630 So it's, and, and because we're at a customer level, you know, even if 780 00:34:55,630 --> 00:34:59,110 you put a thousand new products on the catalog, we don't have to choose 781 00:34:59,110 --> 00:35:00,120 which three are we gonna show today. 782 00:35:00,210 --> 00:35:02,470 We're choosing at a customer level. 783 00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:05,170 So all of those are getting airtime if they're relevant to your customers. 784 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:05,530 Mm-hmm. 785 00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:06,280 Okay. 786 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,275 So now the way to, the way we do that, Um, one of the biggest 787 00:35:12,275 --> 00:35:14,915 problems in AI traditionally has been the barriers to entry. 788 00:35:14,915 --> 00:35:16,625 So I don't understand it. 789 00:35:16,625 --> 00:35:18,155 I don't have the people who have the skills. 790 00:35:18,215 --> 00:35:19,265 They're expensive. 791 00:35:19,325 --> 00:35:20,915 I don't even know who I need to employ. 792 00:35:21,575 --> 00:35:22,175 The whole thing. 793 00:35:22,325 --> 00:35:22,595 Okay. 794 00:35:22,775 --> 00:35:25,445 And when I do employ 'em, I find out they don't know anything about retail. 795 00:35:25,775 --> 00:35:30,435 So actually they end up, their AI models end up competing against my retailers 796 00:35:30,785 --> 00:35:32,105 to a large, yeah, my merchandisers. 797 00:35:32,675 --> 00:35:35,555 So we just said, look, this needs to, we need to create something that is. 798 00:35:36,215 --> 00:35:37,565 Uh, simple to connect. 799 00:35:37,565 --> 00:35:41,795 So typically we're live with a customer either a day from anywhere from a day to 800 00:35:41,795 --> 00:35:43,355 three weeks after they sign a contract. 801 00:35:43,715 --> 00:35:46,955 Depending on you, you three weeks is UD where they have a completely 802 00:35:46,955 --> 00:35:51,755 bespoke platform and, uh, yeah, need to understand a bit more still, but it's 803 00:35:51,755 --> 00:35:53,255 still very little work for the retailer. 804 00:35:53,705 --> 00:35:58,055 Um, and the heavy lifting is done by the AI in the background. 805 00:35:58,610 --> 00:36:02,240 Which understands fundamentally product and how retail works and 806 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:03,260 what we're trying to achieve. 807 00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:05,810 So you can point it at the problem you're trying to solve. 808 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:06,300 Mm-hmm. 809 00:36:06,410 --> 00:36:06,560 Okay. 810 00:36:06,565 --> 00:36:10,130 So if you wanna drive higher margins, you can, you can do that. 811 00:36:10,135 --> 00:36:12,050 You can allow it to, to focus on that. 812 00:36:12,050 --> 00:36:14,181 If you need to move a lot of stock that. 813 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,180 Uh, you've overstocked on, that's fine. 814 00:36:17,180 --> 00:36:20,060 Like don't override the thing to the point that you're actually forcing product on 815 00:36:20,060 --> 00:36:24,320 customer, but give it parameters to allow it to help your merchandisers rather 816 00:36:24,325 --> 00:36:26,000 than just find product for customers. 817 00:36:26,005 --> 00:36:26,210 Yeah. 818 00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:29,840 So we we're trying to balance the customer and the merchandiser, uh, uh, 819 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,220 um, all the time cuz that's, that's what you need to do and reach, make profit. 820 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:35,330 It is. 821 00:36:35,330 --> 00:36:40,025 Now, if you are, I, I like if you're using technology to do that in a bespoke 822 00:36:40,025 --> 00:36:43,085 way for each visitor to your website because everybody's different, right? 823 00:36:43,085 --> 00:36:44,465 And so you can understand that. 824 00:36:45,455 --> 00:36:51,875 So, yeah, so, so if I've got 12 products, um, this kind of, uh, 825 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,875 ideology for want of better expression is not gonna work well for me. 826 00:36:55,655 --> 00:36:58,205 Cuz like you say, they're in a, you know, my customers, maybe you're in a 827 00:36:58,210 --> 00:37:00,305 different phase of, uh, phase of curation. 828 00:37:01,730 --> 00:37:05,240 But let me then say, right, well I've got a site of over and 829 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,120 there's two sites I'm thinking of in my head as I'm talking, Alan. 830 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:08,480 Right. 831 00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:11,780 Um, I used to own, uh, we sold it a couple years ago, but we owned a 832 00:37:11,785 --> 00:37:14,690 beauty site, had four or 500 SKUs. 833 00:37:15,590 --> 00:37:15,740 Yeah. 834 00:37:15,770 --> 00:37:22,100 And, um, on that, what we found was, Um, customers typically once they'd 835 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:25,670 found a brand, became very brand loyal. 836 00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:31,220 So if someone was using a, a certain brand moisturizer, it didn't 837 00:37:31,220 --> 00:37:35,210 really matter what I did, they were staying with that brand moisturizer. 838 00:37:35,215 --> 00:37:38,055 The only way I could really get them to try another one 839 00:37:38,055 --> 00:37:39,585 was to send them a free sample. 840 00:37:39,865 --> 00:37:40,155 Yeah. 841 00:37:40,215 --> 00:37:44,925 Um, and even then, whether they would buy it would be different because the free 842 00:37:44,925 --> 00:37:48,945 sample has probably not got enough product in for them to, to see, you know, over a 843 00:37:48,945 --> 00:37:50,415 space for a week or two how it's gonna be. 844 00:37:51,225 --> 00:37:56,985 So how do you, how do you combat something like that? 845 00:37:57,045 --> 00:37:58,635 I thought that would be an interesting question, and then 846 00:37:58,635 --> 00:37:59,955 I'll get onto my second site. 847 00:38:00,645 --> 00:38:00,825 Okay. 848 00:38:00,825 --> 00:38:02,205 So let's, let's talk about that. 849 00:38:02,205 --> 00:38:04,815 So why do you wanna combat it? 850 00:38:05,525 --> 00:38:06,225 Is the first question. 851 00:38:06,395 --> 00:38:08,375 So if somebody likes a particular brand, help them. 852 00:38:08,855 --> 00:38:08,945 Mm-hmm. 853 00:38:09,515 --> 00:38:12,395 You know, at the end of the day they like the brand for very good reasons normally. 854 00:38:13,085 --> 00:38:15,635 And so, uh, I'll give you an example. 855 00:38:15,635 --> 00:38:16,055 Health and beauty. 856 00:38:16,055 --> 00:38:18,635 So we do a lot of work in pharmacy, which is essentially health and 857 00:38:18,635 --> 00:38:21,155 beauty to a large degree cuz we're not on the prescription side. 858 00:38:21,605 --> 00:38:25,415 Um, so, but what we find is you look at something like L'Oreal, they 859 00:38:25,415 --> 00:38:26,915 might have 80 skews from L'Oreal. 860 00:38:27,605 --> 00:38:29,135 Three of 'em have been seen by their customers. 861 00:38:29,945 --> 00:38:30,065 Yeah. 862 00:38:30,070 --> 00:38:32,060 So, So you, you've got this problem. 863 00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:34,730 The long tail problem is not that the brand isn't being seen, it's that skews 864 00:38:34,730 --> 00:38:35,990 within the brand aren't being seen. 865 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,410 So the person's coming on and they're looking at particular things from a 866 00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:42,050 brand, but they're not considering the brand for other things. 867 00:38:42,350 --> 00:38:42,530 Mm-hmm. 868 00:38:42,530 --> 00:38:43,610 That's a huge problem. 869 00:38:43,610 --> 00:38:47,420 So you still have a long tail problem, it's just all they're doing is 870 00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:48,740 replenishing and they're not extending. 871 00:38:49,550 --> 00:38:50,600 Um, so. 872 00:38:51,305 --> 00:38:54,425 If we know that somebody likes a particular beauty brand and they looked 873 00:38:54,425 --> 00:38:57,395 at moisturizers today, then we can show them what they've been looking at. 874 00:38:57,395 --> 00:38:59,435 But we can also show them, well, this is the, the one from your, 875 00:38:59,435 --> 00:39:00,665 the brand you like as well. 876 00:39:00,845 --> 00:39:04,205 So we're reinforcing a behavior that is good for them and good for you. 877 00:39:04,685 --> 00:39:04,865 Yeah. 878 00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:08,495 And so it's not about trying to a, again, it's trying to move away 879 00:39:08,495 --> 00:39:13,384 from that push product into try and be relevant and they'll naturally 880 00:39:13,384 --> 00:39:14,765 pull the product to themselves. 881 00:39:15,095 --> 00:39:17,495 But you gotta be, but you have to be relevant at the end of the day. 882 00:39:18,005 --> 00:39:23,300 Um, I'll give you a really good example of some bad stuff we've seen, like I've seen. 883 00:39:23,780 --> 00:39:28,850 A three Euro moisturizer beside a 30 Euro moisturizer, and there is nobody 884 00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:31,670 else in planet who wants that experience. 885 00:39:31,675 --> 00:39:32,080 Yeah, okay. 886 00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:35,750 If I want expensive stuff, I do not want to see the cheap version in front of me. 887 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:36,290 Okay. 888 00:39:36,295 --> 00:39:37,220 I don't need to control that. 889 00:39:37,610 --> 00:39:40,640 So it's not, you know, a lot of people say, oh, it's all 890 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:41,750 about, it's never about price. 891 00:39:41,755 --> 00:39:43,730 It's never ever about price. 892 00:39:43,940 --> 00:39:47,660 Um, the, there's, there's always give with customer, there's loads of 893 00:39:47,660 --> 00:39:49,250 other reasons that they buy products. 894 00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:49,790 Yeah. 895 00:39:49,850 --> 00:39:54,485 And as a retailer, if we merchandise well, We, we, we keep them, we keep 896 00:39:54,490 --> 00:39:58,475 them in the right, uh, in the right section of the, of the catalog for them. 897 00:39:58,475 --> 00:39:58,745 Yeah. 898 00:39:59,195 --> 00:40:03,485 Um, yeah, so I would say listen to customers loads of, I I used to draw 899 00:40:03,485 --> 00:40:06,005 a diagram many years ago and we used to do a lot of face-to-face meetings. 900 00:40:06,005 --> 00:40:09,155 We'll say, you know, 50% of your customers aren't, aren't here to buy at the moment. 901 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:10,205 They're here to explore. 902 00:40:10,210 --> 00:40:10,615 Mm-hmm. 903 00:40:11,045 --> 00:40:15,125 Help 'em, 50% are ready to buy right now, so help those in a different way. 904 00:40:15,305 --> 00:40:17,105 And, and, and that's why. 905 00:40:17,825 --> 00:40:20,825 We are doing different things in different parts of the site because you tend to 906 00:40:20,825 --> 00:40:24,905 find that people who are exploring spend a lot of time in PLPs and in homepages, 907 00:40:25,205 --> 00:40:28,625 and people are ready to buy, start going into PDPs more aggressively and yada yada. 908 00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:32,885 So, um, the, the, that's why there's different treatments for 909 00:40:32,885 --> 00:40:34,115 different people in different places. 910 00:40:35,135 --> 00:40:35,355 Wow. 911 00:40:35,855 --> 00:40:37,445 The very good, it's very good answer. 912 00:40:37,685 --> 00:40:43,055 Uh, and again, bringing all of this back, listening to the stuff that 913 00:40:43,055 --> 00:40:49,445 you're talking about, um, Is, uh, I'm just flipping back in my notes, um, was 914 00:40:49,445 --> 00:40:51,305 this idea of the buggy and the baby. 915 00:40:51,725 --> 00:40:57,785 Um, and it seems that this concept seems to, uh, underline everything. 916 00:40:57,790 --> 00:41:01,025 So let's just, let's talk about the buggy and the baby. 917 00:41:01,025 --> 00:41:02,645 So, th this company comes along. 918 00:41:02,650 --> 00:41:05,465 They, they've got this high end buggy, which they sell, they sell it. 919 00:41:05,465 --> 00:41:07,025 A lot of it's their flagship product. 920 00:41:07,535 --> 00:41:07,805 Yeah. 921 00:41:10,070 --> 00:41:16,040 How does that mental shift change their website when they stop thinking just 922 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,450 about the buggy and move to the baby? 923 00:41:18,590 --> 00:41:22,490 So the point of what we do is that they don't have to change the website, that 924 00:41:22,490 --> 00:41:26,975 we add elements and we make changes automatically that reflect that. 925 00:41:27,395 --> 00:41:32,765 So you take a standard site, whether it's Shopify or Magenta, or big Commerce or a 926 00:41:32,765 --> 00:41:35,765 bespoke one, they've written themselves, especially for some of the largest 927 00:41:35,765 --> 00:41:38,195 ones, larger ones, that doesn't matter. 928 00:41:38,465 --> 00:41:41,870 You still manage your website exactly the same way. 929 00:41:42,050 --> 00:41:45,470 What we do is we put elements on top that make it much, much easier 930 00:41:45,470 --> 00:41:46,850 for people to find products. 931 00:41:46,850 --> 00:41:49,820 So if we take that curated homepage, you might have your 932 00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:51,650 branding at the top of page. 933 00:41:51,650 --> 00:41:56,150 We say, well put one line of code in, and now halfway down the page, they're already 934 00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:57,570 starting to see curated products for them. 935 00:41:57,950 --> 00:41:59,540 So they don't need to make changes. 936 00:41:59,780 --> 00:42:02,690 They need to just put in one line changes elements. 937 00:42:03,075 --> 00:42:06,645 That we can then hook onto and make suggestions to customers at 938 00:42:06,645 --> 00:42:08,455 the right place, A and, and draw. 939 00:42:08,475 --> 00:42:11,505 And they can manage everything then on a backend. 940 00:42:11,595 --> 00:42:13,905 So we say to our retailers, you, you change nothing. 941 00:42:13,965 --> 00:42:15,645 You add no data, you add no metatags. 942 00:42:15,650 --> 00:42:18,105 The whole point of AI is that it doesn't need a. 943 00:42:18,365 --> 00:42:19,985 Metatags and all that sort of stuff. 944 00:42:20,375 --> 00:42:24,095 Um, they're a huge issue for most retailers to have to maintain all that. 945 00:42:24,215 --> 00:42:24,785 Mm-hmm. 946 00:42:25,025 --> 00:42:27,875 Um, so for our retailers to say, there's enough information being 947 00:42:27,875 --> 00:42:30,575 added by your merchandisers, that we know what to do with your products. 948 00:42:31,175 --> 00:42:34,685 And, uh, interestingly, I remember the first time we did a wine store. 949 00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:37,970 I didn't, I I really did not think it would work for wine. 950 00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:38,630 Okay. 951 00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:40,790 I thought we're gonna be in electronics. 952 00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:43,610 It'll be apparel, it'll be department stores, but wine store came along. 953 00:42:43,610 --> 00:42:44,330 They were at an event. 954 00:42:44,330 --> 00:42:45,320 They loved what we were doing. 955 00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:47,600 They said, I'm not sure, but go for it. 956 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,170 Like, look, we'll, we, we can get it running for you, but we, you 957 00:42:51,170 --> 00:42:54,560 may not wanna go ahead, so we'll be nice to you about the contract. 958 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,510 And uh, when they saw it, they said, this is the kind of stuff we would do in store. 959 00:42:59,530 --> 00:43:00,420 Yeah, let's go live. 960 00:43:01,070 --> 00:43:04,160 So that was, they're, they're now have a My Sommelier page, which 961 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,450 I love the, the idea of that. 962 00:43:05,810 --> 00:43:09,740 But, um, but, but that's the point of the AI is the AI is 963 00:43:09,740 --> 00:43:11,210 there to figure all that out. 964 00:43:11,540 --> 00:43:15,620 I, I, I, um, I kind of, you know, I, I say to people, I've been in 965 00:43:15,620 --> 00:43:18,890 AI for 26 years, so five years ago none of you had heard of it. 966 00:43:19,230 --> 00:43:21,200 Then you didn't know what it was. 967 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,070 Now you all wanna do it. 968 00:43:22,070 --> 00:43:23,920 So the job is not whether it's important. 969 00:43:24,170 --> 00:43:28,730 The job is to explain what the, the, the real thing from the BS that comes along. 970 00:43:28,735 --> 00:43:29,000 Yeah. 971 00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:32,360 And say, You can do an AI vendor and they say all you have to do 972 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,730 is go, oh, so you have to do work. 973 00:43:34,730 --> 00:43:37,970 So sorry, what part of automation requires more work? 974 00:43:38,330 --> 00:43:38,570 Yeah. 975 00:43:38,570 --> 00:43:44,630 Um, the whole point of AI is that it can take the intelligent stuff your customers 976 00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:48,420 do, the intelligent stuff your buyers and your merchandisers do, and turn that 977 00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:50,480 into a dynamic store for your customers. 978 00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:51,440 That's the whole point of it. 979 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:51,500 Yeah. 980 00:43:52,085 --> 00:43:52,385 Yeah. 981 00:43:52,595 --> 00:43:55,105 So something that makes Yeah, yeah, yeah. 982 00:43:55,445 --> 00:43:59,045 Uh, so I like your 10 years ago, no one had heard of it Five years 983 00:43:59,045 --> 00:44:00,155 ago, everyone was questioning it. 984 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,325 Now everyone wants to use it. 985 00:44:01,685 --> 00:44:06,995 Except for, uh, I saw in the press that, um, the, the government is 986 00:44:06,995 --> 00:44:08,465 now like, how do we control this? 987 00:44:08,935 --> 00:44:09,545 Yeah, exactly. 988 00:44:10,505 --> 00:44:12,665 Uh, which is, which is quite fascinating, isn't it? 989 00:44:12,665 --> 00:44:16,955 And um, and it's, it's interesting, uh, Alan, and maybe I'd love 990 00:44:16,955 --> 00:44:18,155 your opinion on this because. 991 00:44:18,885 --> 00:44:22,515 As things stand as the, at the moment, I get a lot of inquiries from people 992 00:44:22,515 --> 00:44:26,325 wanting to come on the show, um, to talk about something to do with AI. 993 00:44:27,315 --> 00:44:31,035 Um, or we, I, as an e-commerce entrepreneur, I get a lot of people 994 00:44:31,125 --> 00:44:38,194 saying, um, You know, sending me an email saying, this tool, uh, this AI tool 995 00:44:38,194 --> 00:44:40,415 will revolutionize revolutionize life. 996 00:44:40,865 --> 00:44:44,884 So everybody at the moment, every tech developer I know seems to be throwing 997 00:44:44,890 --> 00:44:49,025 the word AI into the product title to try and convince you this is a good thing and 998 00:44:49,025 --> 00:44:50,645 it's gonna, it's gonna change the world. 999 00:44:51,515 --> 00:44:54,995 But most of the time I can't help but think it's not actually AI, it's 1000 00:44:54,995 --> 00:44:56,465 just a bit of baloney from our sales. 1001 00:44:57,065 --> 00:44:59,195 A marketing person, it's a, it's 1002 00:44:59,195 --> 00:45:03,335 either a bit of baloney or it's a bit of it's, I love when people say to me, 1003 00:45:03,335 --> 00:45:04,745 oh, you know, what's the algorithm? 1004 00:45:04,745 --> 00:45:08,525 I go, that, that doesn't even make sense as a question. 1005 00:45:11,945 --> 00:45:16,835 Um, you know, it's the whole point is this is a systematic approach. 1006 00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:20,180 To using information to help customers. 1007 00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:20,390 Okay. 1008 00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:23,990 So we have, we have algorithms that are just there to figure out where 1009 00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:26,690 people are in the buying cycle, to figure out price elasticity. 1010 00:45:26,690 --> 00:45:29,420 We have algorithms that are there to figure out how brands fit together. 1011 00:45:29,420 --> 00:45:31,880 So you mentioned earlier on about brand we've won luxury, 1012 00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:34,070 uh, retailer, I, I love this. 1013 00:45:34,075 --> 00:45:36,560 Uh, say they, they sell secondhand handbags, secondhand 1014 00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:37,970 handbags for 20 grand. 1015 00:45:37,970 --> 00:45:43,730 Like, you know, so handbag secondhand, but it's a really interesting problem 1016 00:45:43,730 --> 00:45:45,140 because they've only got one of each. 1017 00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:45,800 Mm-hmm. 1018 00:45:46,165 --> 00:45:49,535 So these are real collectors and it's a fantastic business. 1019 00:45:49,835 --> 00:45:55,175 But, um, they, they said to us, and then we ended up with, uh, uh, uh, creating 1020 00:45:55,175 --> 00:45:56,435 algorithms specifically for this. 1021 00:45:56,435 --> 00:45:59,165 They said actually brands don't work quite the way they do in other, 1022 00:45:59,435 --> 00:46:02,915 other areas because somebody who likes Prada will also consider Gucci, 1023 00:46:02,915 --> 00:46:04,295 but they won't consider a Hermes. 1024 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,050 So there's, there's clusters of brands that work together and it's 1025 00:46:09,050 --> 00:46:11,540 different for different parts of the product catalog and yada yada. 1026 00:46:11,540 --> 00:46:16,250 So, um, so we drove algorithms to figure out where, how, how far you could 1027 00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:18,470 stretch a brand and, and which brands went together and stuff like that. 1028 00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:20,870 So there's layers and layers and layers of stuff going on. 1029 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,241 And I think when people say machine learning to me, that 1030 00:46:23,290 --> 00:46:25,070 to me is a bit of a red flag. 1031 00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:25,640 Mm-hmm. 1032 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:30,110 Cause it, it's too low level if people can't. 1033 00:46:30,740 --> 00:46:33,530 Articulate how it can work fully, automatically. 1034 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:38,570 How, why, um, what the retail problems are. 1035 00:46:38,810 --> 00:46:41,210 So if the retail, the only retail problem they can talk about is 1036 00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:44,060 we can increase conversions then, to be honest on call 'em bs. 1037 00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:49,160 If you can't understand how we can help a merchandiser, it's not all about customer. 1038 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,260 If it's all about customer, you'll end up selling. 1039 00:46:51,605 --> 00:46:52,955 10% of your product catalog. 1040 00:46:53,405 --> 00:46:53,825 Yeah. 1041 00:46:54,155 --> 00:46:57,935 If they don't, if your AI system doesn't understand merchandisers, if 1042 00:46:57,935 --> 00:47:02,075 you can't ask, answer basic questions around that, you got a serious problem. 1043 00:47:02,435 --> 00:47:04,505 Um, and, and I would move on fairly quickly. 1044 00:47:04,985 --> 00:47:07,975 Um, but Rule of thumb, 90% of them are probably not ai. 1045 00:47:08,530 --> 00:47:10,310 Uh, but you know, they got marketers. 1046 00:47:10,315 --> 00:47:15,470 So, uh, it's, it's actually quite funny, Matt, because about a year ago 1047 00:47:15,470 --> 00:47:18,920 we were having a big debate whether we dropped the AI part of our, our, 1048 00:47:19,070 --> 00:47:21,380 our company name as our trading name. 1049 00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:24,770 And, and I came down on the side and said, look, I don't think AI 1050 00:47:24,770 --> 00:47:27,561 is really doing, like, you know, do we really need AI at the end? 1051 00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:28,940 I think I've gone back on that again. 1052 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:31,880 It's an interesting one, isn't it? 1053 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,550 Because it, it, it is one of these buzzwords at the moment. 1054 00:47:35,075 --> 00:47:39,845 I remember when we, um, when we started the beauty companies going back to 2006. 1055 00:47:39,845 --> 00:47:40,565 So, yeah. 1056 00:47:40,655 --> 00:47:43,895 Um, you know, you, you were what, nine years into AI at this point? 1057 00:47:43,895 --> 00:47:45,965 And I was starting, um, a beauty website. 1058 00:47:46,765 --> 00:47:46,885 I. 1059 00:47:47,045 --> 00:47:49,985 And the beauty website, Origin, I mean it, it didn't stay in 1060 00:47:49,985 --> 00:47:51,635 Jersey, but it started in Jersey. 1061 00:47:51,695 --> 00:47:55,115 And for those of you outside the uk, jersey is a small island off the 1062 00:47:55,115 --> 00:47:58,235 north coast of France, which is kind of independently British and had 1063 00:47:58,235 --> 00:48:02,315 a really quirky set of tax laws at the time, which meant you could sell 1064 00:48:02,315 --> 00:48:06,655 product to the UK under a certain value without sales tax or VAT. 1065 00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:12,950 Um, and so we just happened to start this business up, you know, this beauty 1066 00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:15,830 company, and we thought long, you know, what do we call this business? 1067 00:48:15,835 --> 00:48:19,040 What do we call, um, Jersey was a buzzword at the time. 1068 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,200 And so it, it, it was one of these words which meant both luxury and cheap all 1069 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,250 at the same time because you felt like you were getting luxury but without tax. 1070 00:48:28,550 --> 00:48:31,070 You know, it was kind of like an, an illegal sort of tax, 1071 00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:32,990 uh, illegal tax, tax loop. 1072 00:48:33,830 --> 00:48:36,050 And we deliberately used the word jersey. 1073 00:48:36,265 --> 00:48:41,275 Uh, in the title Jersey Beauty Company, um, because of that very reason, right? 1074 00:48:41,275 --> 00:48:43,825 That it, it, it, and it, and it had a certain kudos. 1075 00:48:44,395 --> 00:48:46,045 I don't think it has that anymore. 1076 00:48:46,050 --> 00:48:48,115 Ju, I mean, Jersey is still a beautiful place, but it 1077 00:48:48,115 --> 00:48:49,435 doesn't get the, the tax breaks. 1078 00:48:49,435 --> 00:48:51,535 And so we still associate luxury with Jersey. 1079 00:48:52,375 --> 00:48:55,375 Um, and so I just think it's a really interesting thing, isn't it, that now 1080 00:48:55,375 --> 00:49:00,925 everybody is using the, the buzz term ai people on the whole, it seems, 1081 00:49:00,925 --> 00:49:02,485 don't really know what it means. 1082 00:49:02,605 --> 00:49:05,845 Um, and it's. 1083 00:49:06,845 --> 00:49:10,160 It's being sold as the golden chalice, isn't it? 1084 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,950 The, the, the sort of the, the silver bullet that's gonna solve 1085 00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:14,660 every single problem for you. 1086 00:49:15,050 --> 00:49:17,180 You're gonna become a millionaire overnight and you don't have to 1087 00:49:17,180 --> 00:49:18,590 do a single thing kind of a thing. 1088 00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:21,230 And actually that's not the truth. 1089 00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:26,120 Um, and so, um, which is why we don't talk to 90% of the people that want to 1090 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,270 talk to us about AI in the podcast cuz you're like, this is just nonsense. 1091 00:49:29,390 --> 00:49:30,140 Oh, it's very true. 1092 00:49:31,445 --> 00:49:32,315 Just nonsense. 1093 00:49:32,315 --> 00:49:33,295 And you, you're like, Ugh. 1094 00:49:33,565 --> 00:49:35,935 There's a couple interesting things on that. 1095 00:49:35,935 --> 00:49:40,375 Like think my job is to help retailers, retail. 1096 00:49:40,435 --> 00:49:40,895 That's it. 1097 00:49:40,895 --> 00:49:41,255 Mm-hmm. 1098 00:49:42,125 --> 00:49:45,485 And they can't be there in front of the customer online. 1099 00:49:45,665 --> 00:49:47,045 So our job is to do that for them. 1100 00:49:47,049 --> 00:49:47,645 So we're just one element. 1101 00:49:47,705 --> 00:49:48,775 We're, we're the shop assistant. 1102 00:49:49,115 --> 00:49:53,165 We're there to guide and to help and to make people, inspire 1103 00:49:53,165 --> 00:49:54,605 people and, and make it fun. 1104 00:49:54,725 --> 00:49:55,295 That's our job. 1105 00:49:55,715 --> 00:49:55,895 Yeah. 1106 00:49:56,105 --> 00:49:57,515 Um, the. 1107 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,220 I was in a room last week and people were talking about chat gpt, complete aside. 1108 00:50:01,220 --> 00:50:04,070 We don't, we're not, you know, chat GPT is fine, but it's a different type of ai. 1109 00:50:04,580 --> 00:50:08,150 But, uh, a guy turned around, he said, you know, I got it to set up a store 1110 00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:09,500 for me and it did this and it did that. 1111 00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:13,060 And this is a load of digital agencies and they're all worried about chat gtp. 1112 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,060 And, uh, he said, and, and, and then three months later I'd made 50 pounds. 1113 00:50:17,930 --> 00:50:21,740 And, but it was all automatic and everyone went, oh, oh God, that's quite scary. 1114 00:50:21,740 --> 00:50:22,640 I went, that's really scary. 1115 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:23,420 You made 50 quit. 1116 00:50:25,895 --> 00:50:26,825 What was the point of that? 1117 00:50:27,215 --> 00:50:27,426 Yeah, yeah. 1118 00:50:27,445 --> 00:50:29,855 So scary how little he made maybe. 1119 00:50:33,425 --> 00:50:36,665 So I think it's very easy to say, oh, it's all magic. 1120 00:50:36,665 --> 00:50:38,405 And I, and by the way, it is magic. 1121 00:50:38,495 --> 00:50:41,745 Like when I look at what we do and I see some sites go, holy 1122 00:50:42,005 --> 00:50:43,325 god, this is amazing stuff. 1123 00:50:44,015 --> 00:50:48,335 But underneath the covers, it's not really magic, the um, but it still looks amazing. 1124 00:50:48,425 --> 00:50:49,235 So that's fantastic. 1125 00:50:49,235 --> 00:50:49,295 Yeah. 1126 00:50:50,615 --> 00:50:54,185 And it can do amazing things, but you gotta put it in a business context. 1127 00:50:54,185 --> 00:50:57,245 Without the business context is just, it's just a machine that's 1128 00:50:57,245 --> 00:50:59,075 going to go to the average very fast. 1129 00:50:59,225 --> 00:51:00,065 That's all it's gonna do. 1130 00:51:00,070 --> 00:51:00,145 Yeah. 1131 00:51:00,535 --> 00:51:00,825 Yeah. 1132 00:51:02,165 --> 00:51:05,404 Well, listen, Alan, I feel like we're just starting to tap the surface of 1133 00:51:05,404 --> 00:51:07,465 this, uh, quite deep, wide topic. 1134 00:51:07,845 --> 00:51:11,134 Um, and, uh, I'm aware of time, so. 1135 00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:15,310 Uh, shop box, uh, dot ai is your url. 1136 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,010 Did I understand correctly this is something that you can plug into your 1137 00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:22,910 existing website or is this something that is a standalone platform? 1138 00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:23,930 Yeah, exactly. 1139 00:51:23,935 --> 00:51:27,770 No, this is your existing site, so you make no changes to your existing site. 1140 00:51:27,770 --> 00:51:30,320 We've had customers up and running the next day after they've signed, 1141 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,980 uh, but typically it's a week to two weeks, um, before we go live. 1142 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:35,720 And that's mainly the training of the ai. 1143 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:36,860 That's all on us. 1144 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,430 Um, so for a customer, it's very, very simple and it 1145 00:51:40,430 --> 00:51:41,570 starts working straight away. 1146 00:51:41,915 --> 00:51:46,505 So, uh, that's really important for us, and we don't really, we're, we're 1147 00:51:46,505 --> 00:51:50,885 not, we're pretty agnostic of, of, of platforms, so I don't think we've come 1148 00:51:50,885 --> 00:51:52,445 across anyone that we can't implement on. 1149 00:51:53,060 --> 00:51:53,690 Fantastic. 1150 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,260 And if people wanna find out more about Shop Box or want connect with 1151 00:51:57,260 --> 00:51:58,430 you, what's the best way to do that? 1152 00:51:59,090 --> 00:52:02,090 So, website, shop box.ai. 1153 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:06,650 And uh, just click on a, uh, um, a sales thing and it will 1154 00:52:06,650 --> 00:52:07,520 come straight through to me. 1155 00:52:07,525 --> 00:52:11,990 If you mention the podcast, uh, e-commerce podcast, then uh, I'll make 1156 00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:13,100 sure it comes straight through to me. 1157 00:52:13,490 --> 00:52:18,710 Um, also my LinkedIn, so Alan Gormley, g o r m l e y, at, um, and 1158 00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:19,940 Shop Box is the name of the company. 1159 00:52:20,580 --> 00:52:21,620 Uh, ping me on LinkedIn. 1160 00:52:21,620 --> 00:52:24,650 I'll send you my email address and we can connect and it will be great to talk. 1161 00:52:25,100 --> 00:52:25,910 Fantastic. 1162 00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:30,200 We will of course, link to all of that, uh, information in 1163 00:52:30,740 --> 00:52:32,540 the show notes, which is great. 1164 00:52:32,540 --> 00:52:36,620 So Alan, let me just close with my final question, which I've started 1165 00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:43,370 to ask people just because you know I can, so I said at the start, um, I 1166 00:52:43,370 --> 00:52:46,730 was trying to think of a really great reason, but I just No, I just, cuz I can, 1167 00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:47,700 that's, I suppose that's good enough. 1168 00:52:48,110 --> 00:52:48,770 It's my show. 1169 00:52:51,260 --> 00:52:55,820 Uh, this, as I said at the start, this show is sponsored by the e-commerce 1170 00:52:55,820 --> 00:52:59,090 cohort, which helps e-commerce businesses deliver e-commerce Wow. 1171 00:52:59,090 --> 00:53:03,775 To their customers through coaching and training and the monthly mastermind. 1172 00:53:03,775 --> 00:53:07,525 So I wanna imagine, Alan, listen, uh, let's pretend it's not digital. 1173 00:53:07,525 --> 00:53:09,965 We're in a room, a real room full of all cohorters. 1174 00:53:09,985 --> 00:53:10,075 Yep. 1175 00:53:10,555 --> 00:53:15,444 Uh, and you've just delivered a keynote, um, on, you know, winning the e-commerce 1176 00:53:15,444 --> 00:53:17,725 game with ai and everyone's going wild. 1177 00:53:17,895 --> 00:53:18,245 Great. 1178 00:53:18,535 --> 00:53:19,015 Go, Alan. 1179 00:53:19,015 --> 00:53:19,735 Best speech ever. 1180 00:53:20,095 --> 00:53:23,005 And you stand up at the end and say, listen, I, it wouldn't be 1181 00:53:23,005 --> 00:53:24,835 possible without dot, dot, dot. 1182 00:53:24,895 --> 00:53:28,134 So you've got an opportunity to thank those who you have, uh, who have 1183 00:53:28,134 --> 00:53:33,380 influenced your own journey past or present, who would you thank and why? 1184 00:53:35,330 --> 00:53:38,180 Oh, God, that's a, that's a difficult question. 1185 00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:39,920 So here's the thing. 1186 00:53:39,980 --> 00:53:41,510 This is the first company I've set up. 1187 00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:42,980 We're three years into the journey. 1188 00:53:43,460 --> 00:53:45,390 I've talked to about 5,000 people. 1189 00:53:46,130 --> 00:53:46,550 Wow. 1190 00:53:46,670 --> 00:53:50,360 And I don't think there's one person that I haven't gained an insight 1191 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:51,950 from, including this morning. 1192 00:53:51,950 --> 00:53:54,860 I was on a two hour mentor session this morning and I just don't stop 1193 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,780 because everyone from investors to potential investors to retailers 1194 00:53:59,780 --> 00:54:01,310 who just wanna see you succeed. 1195 00:54:01,550 --> 00:54:05,270 It's amazing when you set up a, a company and you're doing something 1196 00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:08,060 interesting, people want you to succeed and they're prepared to help. 1197 00:54:08,060 --> 00:54:08,120 Yeah. 1198 00:54:08,855 --> 00:54:12,635 I had one random CEO I pinged him on a Friday morning and said, look, 1199 00:54:12,635 --> 00:54:14,255 I'm, I'm free at, at five o'clock. 1200 00:54:14,705 --> 00:54:18,155 He had rang his wife at seven o'clock saying, listen, I'm gonna be another hour. 1201 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:18,935 I'm talking to this guy. 1202 00:54:18,935 --> 00:54:21,305 He gave me three hours one night on a Friday night. 1203 00:54:21,305 --> 00:54:21,365 Wow. 1204 00:54:21,605 --> 00:54:21,825 Wow. 1205 00:54:22,025 --> 00:54:24,905 Just to help us think through our go to market strategy. 1206 00:54:25,205 --> 00:54:26,526 So I couldn't point to one person. 1207 00:54:26,825 --> 00:54:27,156 There's so many. 1208 00:54:27,605 --> 00:54:30,845 Um, and obviously these are the usual, you know, people who help you 1209 00:54:30,845 --> 00:54:34,205 set up and all that, but really it's amazing when you start a company 1210 00:54:34,205 --> 00:54:35,375 that's doing something interesting. 1211 00:54:35,375 --> 00:54:37,295 People just flock towards you and wanna 1212 00:54:37,295 --> 00:54:37,505 help. 1213 00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:38,840 Fantastic. 1214 00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:41,480 Well, that's, that's a very good answer and very true actually. 1215 00:54:41,570 --> 00:54:42,320 Yeah, very true. 1216 00:54:42,350 --> 00:54:42,410 Yeah. 1217 00:54:42,770 --> 00:54:47,570 Uh, so many people Listen, Alan, thank you so much for joining us today, man. 1218 00:54:47,570 --> 00:54:49,490 Super enjoyed the conversation. 1219 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,600 Um, and, uh, you've got my brain, I've got pages of notes again, as I always 1220 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:58,190 do, and few conversations down, just some of, even though I maybe on my site 1221 00:54:58,190 --> 00:54:59,750 shop box might not work as a concept. 1222 00:54:59,755 --> 00:55:02,900 Some of the principles you've talked about are timeless, and I think that that's, 1223 00:55:03,485 --> 00:55:04,805 That's a beautiful thing in all of this. 1224 00:55:04,805 --> 00:55:06,875 So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, bud. 1225 00:55:06,875 --> 00:55:08,915 Super appreciate it and thanks for coming on the show, 1226 00:55:09,725 --> 00:55:10,025 Matt. 1227 00:55:10,025 --> 00:55:10,565 I loved it. 1228 00:55:10,775 --> 00:55:11,555 Really enjoyed it. 1229 00:55:11,615 --> 00:55:12,965 Thank you very much for the opportunity. 1230 00:55:13,490 --> 00:55:13,670 No. 1231 00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:14,000 Great. 1232 00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:14,390 Great. 1233 00:55:14,420 --> 00:55:15,350 Well, there you have it. 1234 00:55:15,710 --> 00:55:17,990 What's a fantastic conversation. 1235 00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:23,030 Huge thanks again to Alan for joining me today and also a big shout out to today's 1236 00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:25,430 show sponsor, uh, the e-commerce cohort. 1237 00:55:25,790 --> 00:55:28,490 Remember to check them out if, if you are an e-commercer, do 1238 00:55:28,490 --> 00:55:29,510 go have a look at the website. 1239 00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:31,400 Just check it out, ecommercecohort.com. 1240 00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:32,480 See if it's a good fit for you. 1241 00:55:32,540 --> 00:55:34,250 I think it will be, but do check it out. 1242 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,360 And be sure to follow the e-Commerce podcast wherever you get your podcast 1243 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:42,290 from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up, and I 1244 00:55:42,290 --> 00:55:44,090 don't want you to miss any of them. 1245 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:45,650 Oh no, not at all. 1246 00:55:45,655 --> 00:55:51,920 And in case no one has told you yet today, dear listener, you are awesome. 1247 00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:52,840 Yes you are. 1248 00:55:53,180 --> 00:55:54,950 It's just a burden you have to bear. 1249 00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:56,060 I have to bear it. 1250 00:55:56,300 --> 00:55:57,230 Alan has to bear it. 1251 00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:58,970 And you've gotta bear it as well. 1252 00:55:59,000 --> 00:55:59,900 Created awesome. 1253 00:56:00,140 --> 00:56:03,440 Now, the e-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 1254 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,010 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 1255 00:56:07,010 --> 00:56:10,980 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella 1256 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,340 Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. 1257 00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:16,280 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if 1258 00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,460 you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the 1259 00:56:19,460 --> 00:56:21,630 website, ecommercepodcast.net. 1260 00:56:21,650 --> 00:56:23,060 They are there for free. 1261 00:56:23,060 --> 00:56:24,680 You can just find them on the website. 1262 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:25,490 It's super easy. 1263 00:56:25,820 --> 00:56:28,310 But while you are there, make sure you sign up for the newsletter 1264 00:56:28,310 --> 00:56:30,170 if you haven't done so already. 1265 00:56:30,530 --> 00:56:31,880 Now that's it from me. 1266 00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:33,200 That's it from Alan. 1267 00:56:33,500 --> 00:56:34,910 Thank you so much for joining us. 1268 00:56:34,910 --> 00:56:36,950 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 1269 00:56:37,220 --> 00:56:38,030 I'll see you next time. 1270 00:56:38,510 --> 00:56:38,960 Bye for now.