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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What if your next expansion doesn't come from pushing harder, but from reclaiming your energy, trusting your inner knowing and letting your soul lead in today's episode. I'm talking with a powerful guide who blends psychic insight, somatic healing, and soul-centered coaching to

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: help women navigate big transitions with clarity. Sovereignty and purpose. This isn't your typical coaching conversation. This is an energetic alignment in action. Hi and welcome to the U world. Order showcase podcast where we feature life health and transformational coaches being the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the coach's alchemist, on a mission to help

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: entrepreneurs and coaches amplify their voice, monetize their mission and get visible leveraging podcasts and substack. Today we are chatting with Brenda, Winkle, Brenda transforms the lives of high achieving leaders, entrepreneurs and lightworkers by blending trauma-informed breathwork, somatic coaching, and intuitive healing energy to create ease.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: clarity, and alignment in leadership and life. She's also the host of the yes, field, podcast and the table of woo. Don't you just love that?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Welcome to the show? Brenda.

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Brenda Winkle: Thank you for having me, Jill. I'm really excited to be here, and so excited to see where this conversation is going to go today.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Me, too, because it's all about my favorite stuff. So I'm gonna ask you this question that I should have let you know about before we hit record. But I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go with it because I feel like you're the kind of person that's just gonna

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you're going to have the greatest answers. What's the most significant thing in your opinion, as individuals, we can do to make an impact on how the world is going.

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Brenda Winkle: Oh, I love this question. And so you know, a lot of times we think about changing the world by doing something external. And it's true, of course we can take action that absolutely has an impact on the external world.

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Brenda Winkle: But if we're out of alignment with ourselves, then sometimes we can accidentally misfire that action. So the most important thing that we can each do to make the most and the highest impact on the world is to come back home to our own energy to track it, to notice when we're feeling really good, because that's sort of like our internal GPS do more of this.

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Brenda Winkle: And if we really pay attention to that, we're going to be guided and led to things that will actually create the change that we want to see.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that so much on your on your website.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I, I agree with you so much that it it's really about discovering who we are and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and embracing it, and being okay with who we are, because so much of our lives.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I would say, for most people are filled with trying to be something that we're not.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: whether it's, you know, we're pushed to go in a certain direction by parents. We were talking about your daughter earlier. And and I admire your ability to just say, Okay, we don't have to stay on this path just because we've been walking on it. We can do something different. We can have an adventure. We can have an experience, and life doesn't have to look any particular way in order for it to be successful.

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Brenda Winkle: Thank you. I really believe that to my core, and I guess the way that I internalize it, as I think of life as our curriculum. And so if we're responding to the things that happen, that we feel the experiences that we have, it makes sense that our path might change, because, as we learn more and we do more, and we get different experiences, our perspective changes. And so what once served us may not continue to serve us.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We don't always have to be like, just because we said, this is what we want doesn't mean it has to always be what we want. That's right. We just didn't know that there was something different that's leaving even more exciting than what we thought we wanted.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's right.

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Brenda Winkle: And you know there's 2 things that come up for me. One is, I tell my clients all the time you're not broken, and you don't need to be fixed. And so a lot of times in the personal development world, there's a subtle languaging around. There's something wrong with you.

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Brenda Winkle: and I reject that completely, because I think that it's true that we're all on a growth journey, or we wouldn't be curious and wanting to know more. But to come at it from the lens of. I'm already whole, and you're already whole, and we're just trying to find the best, most fun, most ease filled most impactful way to live this life. That's the journey.

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Brenda Winkle: And you know I'm a human design novice. But I will tell you I'm a manifesting generator, which means that change is part of my makeup. I am fueled by novelty, by new ideas, and so, if I didn't live by the idea that I can change my mind.

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Brenda Winkle: it would feel so limiting to me, and so invitation just to change your mind when something feels like it's ready to shift.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm a manifesting generator as well, and I'm it's like plot, twist.

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Brenda Winkle: Yes, exactly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I loved that you. You mentioned something on your website, and I do want to bring this up. It struck me to my core because I could relate to it so much, and it has honestly caused me so many problems in my life until I realized that I can control this.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have the power. So you said I started people pleasing because I couldn't stand to feel their discomfort or disappointment. I felt everything, their pain, their needs, and their desires, part of me resented all the people pleasing, while another part of me took pride in my ability to read what people needed.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So profound, and I've experienced this so much in my life. It's painful to me because I would. I'm an empath, and you get near people, and you're just like you know what they need.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They may even have to open their mouth a lot of times, and I know what they need, and I used to just like, tell them

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: so. Just do this. You'll be happy, and they would get mad at me.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Be hurt.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Maybe they just aren't there yet, Jill.

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Brenda Winkle: You know I liken this to walking through an airport, so if we imagine walking through an airport, and if you were to pick up a bag from every single person that you pass. Eventually you're going to be really weighed down with all the bags, and you're probably going to have to set down some of your own bags in order to carry everyone else's.

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Brenda Winkle: And that's a lot of times the way that those of us that identify as empaths or intuitives. That's how we walk through the world until we learn a different way. We're carrying everybody else's stuff, and we're leaving our own behind, meaning that I might have a solution for you and your problem. But I'm ignoring my own.

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Brenda Winkle: And it so it's really natural to be like, oh, I can totally fix this for you. All you need to do is XYZ. And that's especially true. If you have a high level of intuition, and you're tapped in, and you're like, I can see how this is going to go. Of course you want to share that.

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Brenda Winkle: And so that was my experience, for sure, through the first, st you know, 35 years of my life, until I started to set some boundaries, and one of the hardest boundaries to learn was

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Brenda Winkle: for me to stop auto advice, giving.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes.

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Brenda Winkle: And the other boundary that was really hard to learn. But probably the most impactful was I can set boundaries around my intuition and the spiritual communication that comes in. So I'm not wide open. 24, 7.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: yeah, and I think this period of time that we're in has I know it's helped me a lot in in that people are accepting and understanding that there is such a thing as an empath, and there is some such a thing as somebody who into just knows there are intuitives, and as much as you know.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: people for a long time made fun of people who said, You know, I get downloads, or I'm intuitive, or I just. I just know

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: what the end result of this is going to be. I don't. I can't prove it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: but you know you can prove it. Just go ahead on the path that you're on.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No see what happens.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah. And you know, there's 2 things around this. The 1st is, there actually is science behind empaths. There was a researcher named Elaine Aaron who started researching this in 1991. She's the one responsible for the term highly sensitive people that all came from her research, and she identified a very small subset of highly sensitive people that she identified as empaths. And so there's actually the science to prove it.

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Brenda Winkle: And for whatever reason, it's not gained a ton of traction. But I actually, I actually have a theory on the reason, when I think about who would benefit from us, not tapping into our intuition

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Brenda Winkle: from us not being able to discern our gifts for our not being able to use our gifts. Then I'm like, Oh, of course they're going to make fun of us. Make us feel like we're crazy. Make us feel like, you know, we're at risk for being relegated or burned at the stake, or whatever. There's a lot to be gained from the systems that are oppressive around us, from us, not tapping into our intuition.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. And God forbid anybody find out that we have these abilities, and that we can actually make a difference in the way the world is going rather than other people that want to profit off of

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the masses and and control them.

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Brenda Winkle: Right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: People, people who can tap into the

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the energy source that is all around us, and and are willing to just

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: let it flow through them and share with others. Those people are powerful in in ways that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the establishment can't allow to exist.

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Brenda Winkle: That's right. It's a lot harder to control somebody who can intuit your motives and the outcome of your actions. And and it's a lot harder to control somebody who actually knows. Oh, this is aligned for me, or this is not aligned for me.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And and now we're we're being empowered because of

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the number of us that are coming forward and saying, Hey, this is real. I experienced this. I you know I've got the burns from from using it incorrectly to to show

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: for for my efforts. But it's it's becoming more acceptable

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: in other realms, and we're learning how to control it better.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know you're talking about putting boundaries on your intuition. You know I have. I have boundaries in my life. Most of the boundaries aren't for other people. They're for me.

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Brenda Winkle: That's right.

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Brenda Winkle: that's right. And that's how boundaries work. Right? We, when we start working with boundaries, we often think that it's going to be about other people. But the truth is.

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Brenda Winkle: setting. The boundary is the beginning of the boundary, and it's when we can hold and maintain and and really enforce the boundary that it begins to work, and that's all self work.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, you hear about boundaries, and you're like, Oh, relief!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Dang it!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Not what I thought it was.

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Brenda Winkle: That's right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's really helpful. I've found that since I've established my own boundaries for myself, that my relationships with other people

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: have been allowed to blossom in ways that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they couldn't before, because I was. I was trying to take on their life and my life and the other person's life and this person's life, and I wanted everybody to just get together and be nice, and be happy, and and to love each other, and and for nothing bad to ever happen. And and if something did happen, it was just like I took on that responsibility. It's like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it is hard to live like that. It drives you crazy.

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Brenda Winkle: It's exhausting. And you know, there's a link between exhaustion and adrenal fatigue and a lot of really serious diseases. And this kind of energy around. Let me save you. Let me pretend like my needs don't matter. I'm going to be a martyr, and so it really creates havoc in our bodies, and it creates havoc in our relationships. Because

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Brenda Winkle: if we're taking on other people's stuff, we're robbing them of the dignity of their own experience. And people.

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Brenda Winkle: even if they want help, they don't want you to do it for them most of the time.

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Brenda Winkle: Most of the time they want to be able to figure it out.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and maybe they'll ask. And and you can offer.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I offer a lot. But I I quit being tied to the outcome

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: unless somebody asks me for help.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and I give them advice, or I I invest a lot of time and energy into it, and then they're like, Well, no, I'm not going to do that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Then I do get irritated, but.

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Brenda Winkle: You know, one of the things that I teach is we have to get clear on what's okay and not okay.

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Brenda Winkle: What is a deal breaker for you? What is a preference? Do you have desires? We have to get clear on all of those things before we can begin to set the boundary, because if we're not clear on what's true for us, it becomes so much harder to try and communicate it to somebody else, and then going along with that, we have to determine what our standards are.

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Brenda Winkle: What is my baseline standard? What am I willing to live with? What am I willing to not live with? What will I not tolerate? And then from there we have so much information, and it becomes easier to articulate, oh, this specific set of behaviors, this really really works for me. I feel great when these things happen, and when these things happen, I do not feel great. And so then we can use that kind of language when we're communicating with our loved ones.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it helps us when we're dealing with other people. It helps us with our loved ones. And and those people are important, and we need to have different boundaries with our loved ones versus the next tiers out and the different relationships that you have, you can have different sorts of boundaries. And

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and it helps us, when we have these kinds of boundaries, to recognize when things are going south, and instead of staying in situations that aren't

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: helping us to just cut ties and move on. And and it keeps that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when you sit in something that you're not aligned with anymore, or that is just not not working for you with the boundaries that you have in your life.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you know we all. We all run into these situations that you know you think are going to be one thing, and then suddenly you find yourself tangled up, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the space you don't want to be in

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But if you know what your boundaries are and you've established, you know I will tolerate this, and I won't tolerate this when you start getting close to the I won't tolerate this. You know. You need to cut your ties. You don't have to be nasty about it, but you do need to make a different choice.

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Brenda Winkle: Well, and what you're speaking to is something about like tracking the energy of how you feel in specific situations. Sometimes we may not even be aware that a boundary is necessary until we start to track and and look at different situations. So I have an energy tracker on my website that you can download for free. It's just brendawinkle.com forward, slash audit.

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Brenda Winkle: And if you're a digital person and you want something with like drop downs and color coded. Just email me after you get that in your inbox and I'll send you a forced copy on a Google spreadsheet. So you can do it yourself, but

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Brenda Winkle: one of the things that I've learned, and I learned this for myself first, st and now I teach it to others. But if I don't track

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Brenda Winkle: different situations and scenarios and interactions. I may not have an awareness around. This is draining me. This is fueling me. I feel great when I'm around this person. I don't feel great around this, and so if we don't have that awareness, it's so much harder to set a boundary, because we'll often, or at least I'll speak for myself.

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Brenda Winkle: Well, often I'll often get confused and think that it's X when really the thing that needs to be shifted is y.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. And and that's especially true when you get into like work situations where you're working in a with a community of people. And you're you're interacting with other people.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Some of them might energize. You and others of them might be draining you. And it's not. It's like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, I don't know which ones. I don't know where the problem is, but my overall feeling is like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm I'm being sucked into the black hole. But.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah. And so one of the things that comes up for people is if we have unhealed child wounds and we're feeling triggered in any situation, whether it's work or home.

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Brenda Winkle: There's an indicator that there's something coming forward in the subconscious that's saying, Hey, I need some healing and love here, because if we're feeling triggered, whether it's we're angry or we're feeling competitive, or we're feeling unappreciated or unseen, there's something there that is for us to look at. And so one of the things that we can start to do is get really curious around.

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Brenda Winkle: Hmm, this is so interesting. I am really activated by this particular person at work. I wonder what this is about, I wonder? Like, where in my body am I feeling sensation? Where do I remember this from a different time in my life. What situation is this familiar like? What does this remind me of.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: yeah, it. It's an awareness thing more than anything else. And and none of this is about, you know, saying, somebody is bad or wrong, or

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: we.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We run into people all the time that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they may make us feel a certain way, and it has really nothing to do with them. It just has to do with us.

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Brenda Winkle: That's right. In fact, I would even invite a language shift around that. No one can make you feel a way. And so if we find ourselves feeling a specific way around a person anything other than neutral or joyful. It's an invitation for us to go inward and find out. Is there a part of myself

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Brenda Winkle: that I am pushing away, that I don't like that I'm projecting onto this other person. Is there an unhealed child wound? Is there a protector part coming forward, and so, when we can allow ourselves to be really curious and not make it mean anything about us or the other person like.

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Brenda Winkle: Then there's there's true freedom.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And and it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And this isn't to say that we should always

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: allow people to just have free reign over us, because, oh, absolutely not we? We can.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: in the curiosity explore. Whether

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: is my feeling? Are my feelings being triggered as a warning to me? Because this is this person is going to

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: bite me in the butt. Better way to put it? Or or is this really something this person has? No.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: is neutral. It's all me. And sometimes that does happen.

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Brenda Winkle: Well. And so here we come back to intuition, right? So when we get an intuitive hit like a knowing, and intuition comes in for us lots of different ways. It could be dreams, it could be feelings, it could be vision, something that you see or hear. But when that intuition comes in it's going to be neutral. It'll be emotionally neutral, as in. I know I can't trust that guy.

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Brenda Winkle: And so that's neutral. When we have an emotional charge.

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Brenda Winkle: we know that that emotional charge is likely something inside of us. It's not intuition. Now, can they be connected? Well, sure, they absolutely can like. Let's say, if I intuitively know, I can't trust that guy, and I also am being reminded of a different situation when I was a kid where I felt really bad about something, then it can be both. But if you slow it down in your mind.

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Brenda Winkle: You'll notice that there was a moment when the intuition dropped in where there was just pure information and neutrality before the emotion got activated.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and it's being able to slow down.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm not very good at that.

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Brenda Winkle: I wasn't either. You know, this has taken a lot of practice. My mom and my grandma always used to say that I was the fastest person that they'd ever met. Like I walk fast. I talk fast. I just do things fast. I complete tasks in a really quick way, and so slowing down.

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Brenda Winkle: Was

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Brenda Winkle: mostly out of blind curiosity, like what would happen if I slowed down? What would happen to my intuition? What would happen to my boundaries, what would happen to my life? And I found that if I insert a pause

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Brenda Winkle: after I feel a sensation, or I get an unknowing, that pause. Is life changing because that pause gives me time to ask myself questions around? Is this something I actually want to react to?

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Brenda Winkle: Or is this something I'm just going to like use as oh, this is information about what I don't want that gets to be there, too.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I do like that. I

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think I've gotten better at the

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the disallowing information to come in from other sources like, and instead of feeling

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: well, I'll put it this way. My husband and I have have learned how to fight in a way that is is constructive and when we.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when we realize that we often just want to be the victim in a situation rather than the hero of our own story, it really changed the dynamic in the conversations. So sometimes, when things aren't going the way I want them to go, I can go to him and say.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I want to be the victim in this situation for just a moment, and I'm going to share

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: whatever I'm going to share.

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Brenda Winkle: Hmm.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Other times. It's like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I want to feel empowered in this situation, and these are the changes I'd like to see. Neither one of them are like, you're a terrible person. You did these things. It's I want to sit in victimhood for a moment, and sometimes we all just want to be the victim.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It happens he was complaining about being in the victim situation, and we were joking about it. I always have to grate the cheese, and I said, Yes, honey, you are the victim of that, and you're also the victim of having to fill the ice trays all the time.

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Brenda Winkle: Hi.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'll let you own that.

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Brenda Winkle: Love that you've found this communication style that works for you where you can articulate. Here's the space I'm in today.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I think if people

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: could own their own energy, it makes it. It allows the people that they're having

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: conflict with own theirs as well, but it's also allowing them the space to have that same energy back at you. You know there's things that I do that annoy my husband no end.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I try not to do them, but you know it just happens, and and he can come to me. And he's so good. My husband is really amazing

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: at this about being like, you know, I'm

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm sorry I I reacted the way I did.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You didn't deserve that. And the situation didn't deserve that, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and I can. I can let him do it because I know that he's going to come back. And he's going to say this is, I'm sorry.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and it's not personal.

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Brenda Winkle: There's something. I had a podcast, guest on my, podcast, Your yes filled life. And her name was Deb Rubin, and she is a therapist, and she was talking about the benefit of the rupture repair cycle, and she said that when a relationship has a rupture like, let's say a fight, we could call that a rupture, and you come back and you repair it, that the relationship actually grows stronger than it was before the rupture.

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Brenda Winkle: because you're able to see each other, to hear each other, and to come back together in a way that's like, Oh, I'm building trust with you, because I know now I can have this disagreement with you, and you'll still be there.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, yeah. It's like, reminds me of the the gold and the Japanese. They they repair things.

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Brenda Winkle: Is it called Meraki.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Kanjuki, or something like that.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah, yeah, I know it's 3 syllables and a lot of vowels and.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

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Brenda Winkle: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's the one where the broken thing is put back together with gold. So the finished, the broken thing that's been repaired is much more valuable than the original thing before the repair. I kind of feel like that is an accurate description of what you were talking about in terms of

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: having allowing people that you have relationships with the space to express

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: what they're feeling, because ultimately it's what we're feeling that energizes these heated discussions

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: or wanting people to do things in a certain way, or wanting them to agree with you, or whatever the thing is, if you can allow them the space to at least express what they're trying to express

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: without having to have an opinion about it, or feel like you have to take it on and own it for yourself can just let them have it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and then then you can.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's it's either the entry point for a further discussion, or it it can be

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It can just

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: allow them the the release valve, and it it allows you to not have to feel like you have to absorb it.

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Brenda Winkle: Right. You know, my perspective is just. It's similar, but slightly slightly different in the sense that I don't allow anyone to use me as their release valve. That's 1 of my standards is, if you need a release, I invite you to go to Yoga, go to your weight workout class, run whatever it is, get some of that energy out, and then come back and talk. I will not be your release valve.

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Brenda Winkle: And so in in my relationships. That's what feels good to me. And so I love that you have found what feels good and works for you, because every single one of us is unique. And we're going to have our unique way that we want to come into these relationships. And it just is so beautiful that it's it sounds so connective.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It is. It is connective, and it works for me. But it doesn't. I am just like I'm just me.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm not my husband. I'm not my kids, and everybody has their own space that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it. Life is just so much more pleasant when you can allow people to be them.

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Brenda Winkle: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To be them for them.

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Brenda Winkle: Totally. Totally. So I just recorded a podcast episode this week about the curriculum of our lives and thinking about curriculum is like what we're here to learn, and viewing any circumstances or situations that feel challenging as the curriculum. And I remember, like back in high school, there were some classes I absolutely loved. I couldn't wait for them to come.

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Brenda Winkle: you know, in the day I looked forward to them so much, and then there were other classes that I could not stand like geometry, for example, was one of those classes, and so sometimes I think about life and the circumstances and the situations that present themselves as my curriculum. And so when something's happening that I'm not loving, it's a reminder that I get to learn something from this situation so that I don't have to be signed up for the same class.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. The ticket again. Next semester.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. And and maybe you should pay attention so that you don't have to.

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Brenda Winkle: Right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's a good reminder, and I like that a lot.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So why do you think trusting your intuition is a is an important part of trusting ourselves.

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Brenda Winkle: I think that they go hand in glove.

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Brenda Winkle: and if we are disconnected from our intuition, it becomes so much harder for us to trust ourselves, and what that looks like would be making decisions by committee asking everybody you know what you should do before you actually do it.

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Brenda Winkle: It looks like deep insecurity around making any changes or or decisions. It can also look like feeling like you're not enough and outsourcing power. In other words, letting other people decide things for you, and it manifests in simple but really profound ways, like when somebody says, Well, where do you want to go for dinner tonight? And you say I don't know. I don't care. We're giving away a lot of power.

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Brenda Winkle: if and that's different. I just want to say before I dive into the next thing that's different than saying, I know that you really love Mexican food. And so if you want to go to Mexican food tonight, I'm okay with that that's different than saying, I don't know. I don't care.

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Brenda Winkle: And so how it fits in with intuition and trusting ourselves is when we're connected to our intuition. It feels a little bit like we have

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Brenda Winkle: an anchor.

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Brenda Winkle: In other words, we're not going to go drifting off

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Brenda Winkle: into something else. So I had a client this morning that talked about feeling like she was an actress in somebody else's movie.

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Brenda Winkle: and she wanted to feel like she was the main character in her own life, instead of feeling like she was a supporting character.

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Brenda Winkle: and what it comes down to is trusting and knowing that intuition, so that you can say to somebody that's a beautiful idea that is so exciting. It's wonderful. I know that that's not going to be for me.

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Brenda Winkle: I want to go do this thing.

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Brenda Winkle: And so they they're so innately connected. And the other way that intuition impacts us is we can start to discern what's right for us what's wrong for us, what's true? And then we also know who to trust, and what situations to trust, and it just.

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Brenda Winkle: It creates momentum in our muscle memory of oh, I can trust my own knowing

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Brenda Winkle: I can trust that I actually do know what makes me feel good and what's right for me, or right for my family.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think it also helps us to be able to

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: let other people have their own intuition, too.

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Brenda Winkle: Well, it's essential, because you can't have intuition for someone else. You can have your intuition about someone else. But you can't. You can't override their intuition with yours, which is where we get into the concept of projection which happens for a lot of people at the beginning of their spiritual development

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Brenda Winkle: when they are not able to discern a message coming in from their own projection around something that they might be working on. And so one of the things that becomes essential is creating a sense of sovereignty

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Brenda Winkle: in your own system by protecting your own energy, because when you're in a sovereign place, then I know this is my intuition, and I can feel your intuition. I can see what my intuition is telling me, and I can differentiate it from yours, and I can differentiate. What's my personal work to do from what your personal work to do is. And also

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Brenda Winkle: it's so common that people who are working through similar issues will be drawn to similar coaches, healers, therapists, psychics. It's it's so often that we're like magnet to steel shavings with people working on our same stuff.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I find, having interviewed a lot of people over the years that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I get groups of people together, they group themselves like today has been kind of a similar thread

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: in my other conversations, and other days it'll be

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: something totally different. But the thread will be similar

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: through the conversations. It's it's just one of those interesting things that I've noticed in dealing with people and.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah, and it's energy, right? So we're in a specific, energetic stream. And so it makes sense that it would be similar kinds of conversations and threads.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, so how do you? How do you coach people? Does it do groups, one on one programs.

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Brenda Winkle: I work in both. I have a group program called Your Yes Filled Life. And that is changing form just a little bit because we're going to be offering more bite-sized types of things in 6 and 8 week containers. It has been a year long program. And so that's in flux right now, but that's my group offer, and then I do work with people, one on one as well.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Awesome. And how do people get in touch with you?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Check it out if they're interested in something.

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Brenda Winkle: My website is brendawinkle.com, and that's WINK. LE.

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Brenda Winkle: And that probably is the biggest hub. And if people are on social, and they have fun on social. I'm there, too.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Go ahead.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So do you use?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know that you offered this oracle

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: piece. Do you use oracle cards when you're you're working with people is that? How does

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: how does the word oracle fit into what you do?

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Brenda Winkle: I love.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay.

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Brenda Winkle: So behind me.

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Brenda Winkle: I have like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, yeah.

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Brenda Winkle: A lot of oracle cards. Oracle cards were my 1st step into the work that I do now, and oracle cards are a great way to unlock your own intuition, because you can work with oracle cards, and then they can confirm things that you already know. So for a lot of people. That is one of the very 1st places that they begin to realize. Oh, I have these intuitive gifts.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And so I've been working with oracle cards for about 12 years. And actually, I'm a certified oracle card reader, and I love to follow people on social media that are also readers like oracle card readers. Tarot readers.

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Brenda Winkle: And one of the things that I noticed was, they're missing 2 important pieces of readings, like all of these people are. And I thought. You know what I'm just going to put together a little free course on oracle cards, because

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Brenda Winkle: I think all of us should be the very best readers that we can. So I created that free course. So to answer your question. When I 1st started doing the work that I do now, I relied heavily on the cards, because I didn't quite have the confidence to say, Oh, this is what's coming through.

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Brenda Winkle: Now, if somebody requests that I use cards, or if I feel like they're having a hard time believing the message that I'm saying, I'll use cards as confirmation.

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Brenda Winkle: And so that just is kind of a fun

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Brenda Winkle: other way. And then I also see people, especially coaches in the spiritual space that will do like, let me draw one card.

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Brenda Winkle: Okay, great. But if we're going to draw one card. Let's make sure that we've cleaned the deck.

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Brenda Winkle: that we're not picking up on other people's energy, and that we're getting a card. That is actually true for the energy that you're feeling, sensing and participating in that day which goes back to. Why I created that course because I just want it to be accessible and helpful for everyone.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And so is there a difference between Tarot and Oracle cards.

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Brenda Winkle: There is, there is a difference. And so I talk about this in the course, and it's part of the ebook that comes with it. But Tarot cards are a very specific set of meanings that have been assigned to each card. So every Tarot deck is going to have exactly the same number of cards in the same order, and while you know one

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Brenda Winkle: like, let's say, if you do an angel, Tarot, they might call the suit of swords, suit of air, but it all is dealing with thoughts, so there can be those kinds of differences, whereas an oracle deck is

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Brenda Winkle: created by an author and oracle card decks can vary tremendously in the numbers of cards. There could be as few as 8 up to 90 in an oracle card deck, and they can be themed in any way that somebody wants.

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Brenda Winkle: So the Tarot card is a very specific type of reading, and the oracle card is a more broad type of reading. And so you get to kind of just pick which one feels most resonant to you

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Brenda Winkle: and then go from there. I like both, but not everybody does.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I see people. I do follow some people that do Tarot card readings, and they tend to incorporate even horoscopes into it, and on it for another layer of

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: more accuracy, and then they bring that oracle cards in as well. So you're getting kind of the combination of the 3, and they're generalized readings. So it's it's not like a personal energy, but it's an energy around a group of people that have certain tendencies or characteristic energies assigned to them

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: right? I think.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah, like the collective. And so.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

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Brenda Winkle: That specific person's collective. So typically, if an oracle card reading or a tarot card reading pops into your awareness on, let's say you're scrolling social media. There's something energetically that's connected you to that reader and to that reading. And so, you know, if it feels aligned for you, you could see if the reading feels good. The thing that I will always say is.

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Brenda Winkle: take what resonates and leave what doesn't.

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Brenda Winkle: because, you know, there's a couple there's so many variables. We want to make sure that the oracle or Tarot card reader is getting their information from the light. At least, according to me, I don't deal with the dark I deal with like dark goddess energy, but not

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Brenda Winkle: dark energy. If that makes sense. Yeah, so we want to make sure about that. And then we we also remember me saying that in our beginning of our spiritual development, of our psychic development it's easy to project. We want to make sure that somebody is in their sovereignty so that they're not projecting energy. That is their personal life path work onto the collective. And so

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Brenda Winkle: you just if it doesn't resonate, it might be that somebody accidentally slipped because everybody is human, and so that can happen.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And again, using your intuition to like, feel into the

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the presenter and the reader, and just

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: how how it feels for you, and sometimes, you know, you click on something as like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: no, that's not feeling it.

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Brenda Winkle: That's right. Yeah. And that's just the discernment that that feels good. So that free course is available@brendawinkle.com forward, slash oracle.

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Brenda Winkle: and.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you have the energy audit.

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Brenda Winkle: I do. Yeah. The energy audit that I feel like

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Brenda Winkle: that is one of the most impactful things that I've ever created. And I created it for myself. First, st I was traveling full time.

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Brenda Winkle: and I had always wanted to travel full time, and I had done it for a variety of reasons. I wanted to do it, but I needed the flexibility because my dad was very sick. And so I was coming, you know, after my dad's death I was coming back out West and traveling in Airbnbs and just noticing like something's off. Something's off what is happening. I ended up with a really big panic attack moving from one long term Airbnb to the next, and it caused me to go.

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Brenda Winkle: What is this about what is happening?

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Brenda Winkle: And so I started just on a piece of notebook paper tracking my energy. And it was how I was able to realize.

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Brenda Winkle: oh, making decisions around where to live next is costing me bandwidth. I don't have. It was fun before my dad died to like. Think about where I'm going to live. But right now, because of grief, I don't have that capacity. And so I started to track it, and then I started talking about it to my clients, and they were like, Oh, will you make us one.

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Brenda Winkle: And so that was how the energy audit came. And we even talked about it today in my group coaching call like, it's not like you have to audit your energy every day all day for the rest of your life. But

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Brenda Winkle: going in once in a while and saying, Okay, for this week I'm going to track things so that I can have an idea of what's fueling me, what's depleting me, and then you can make informed decisions around. What you'll continue into the next week can just feel really good, gives you that power back.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that I I can see a great use for it when you

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: we all tend to like, get in situations where we just notice that, hey? My anxiety level is is

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: off the charts. And I I it wasn't yesterday. So what's going on here? And and rather than just like sitting in that, having a tool that can help us, you know. Figure out, why is this affecting me like this right now? And and what can I do to to move into a different state of energy, so that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: feel better sounds like.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No one suffer.

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Brenda Winkle: And it blends the intuition with the structured mind, because our structured mind is what takes over when we're under stress. So if we can find a way to work with the structured mind.

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Brenda Winkle: It's really helpful. I'm curious, Jill, how does intuition come in for you?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I just have like the knowing.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just like it's like I always knew.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Edit.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I didn't. I don't ask for it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It just comes.

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Brenda Winkle: That's amazing.

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Brenda Winkle: That's amazing.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Times. Sometimes it's like, Close your mouth, Jill.

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Brenda Winkle: Oh, cause you got one you didn't ask for.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, yeah, sometimes you get stuff you don't ask for. And and sometimes you just don't know what I don't know what to do with it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You just have to sit with it.

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Brenda Winkle: One of my mentors taught me something that seemed too simple to work. But it really really works. I wrote a letter to my spirit team, and I in my letter. I thank them for helping me to develop my gifts and thank them for helping

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Brenda Winkle: me in that development. And then I also said, I really want to live this life because I am human. And so my request would be that you not allow the like the drive by readings to happen.

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Brenda Winkle: So please only bring me readings when I'm in session, and please help someone who needs a session. Find me so that they can book a session, and please help them have the resources to be able to pay for a session, so that I'm not, you know, in the grocery store doing a drive by reading with somebody because something came through.

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Brenda Winkle: And so invitation just to write a letter to your spirit team and say how you want it to come in. And when for you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I like that a lot, and I have been.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I bought new stationery because my sister bought me a pen. It's a fountain pen. It's.

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Brenda Winkle: Oh, I love that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So yeah, I've I've decided I was going to start writing with a fountain pen and and journaling, and but I think I will use the stationery. I bought the stationary so I could write to her.

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Brenda Winkle: Oh, I love that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because I thought it was so nice of her.

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Brenda Winkle: So.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That is really helpful

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to to write to my spare team, and I and I will take you up on that. I will do that. I think that would be

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: better than just like getting these random Demo.

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Brenda Winkle: Yeah, I know what you mean. I was a teacher for 26 years, and the random downloads could be really jarring. When you see something you don't want to see that you can't actually do anything about, because you're not supposed to know it. In the 1st place, it can be really jarring.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. And and you combine that with being an empath. And then you're like, you're feeling the things that they're feeling.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then, you know you could fix it. And then you're just like.

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Brenda Winkle: So

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Brenda Winkle: one thing for that. So I work with a lot of empaths, and I am an empath as well. So if we can create a little bit of sovereignty in our energetic field. It can be a game changer. So I teach something just called the Zip up method, where you just are going to make a zipping motion from the base of your spine up over the top of your head.

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Brenda Winkle: and you can set the intention to have it. Be various strengths so like you can zip up, and then set the intention that it will allow you to remain sovereign

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Brenda Winkle: from your husband, but not separate from your husband, whereas if you're walking in a busy airport, I'm flying tomorrow. That's why I'm thinking about the airport when you're walking in a busy airport. You probably want more energetic protection, so you would zip up with that intention so that you don't feel overwhelmed by all the people on the airport which used to be my story.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it is really hard. And I used to think I was weird

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: because people didn't talk about this.

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Brenda Winkle: I know I felt the same way I lived in. I grew up in Shadron, Nebraska, which is a little small town in the northwestern corner, and we used to have to drive to Rapid City, South Dakota, to go shopping like that was where the Mall was, and so once a month we'd go to the Mall, and I'd be fine for the 1st 30 min, ish, and then I would have a crushing headache and feel nauseous.

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Brenda Winkle: And so then I would go back outside, and I would take a break, and then I could come back in when I felt better, and I thought for a very long time that I was allergic, or something to the clothing in the Mall.

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Brenda Winkle: turns out it's the energy. As soon as I learned to zip up my energy, I was able to go back into a mall.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: These little things that we aren't taught. We need. We need to know. I that's like a powerful tool. Thank you so much for sharing. I.

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Brenda Winkle: You're welcome.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Honor the gift that you've given me, because

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I believe it's really going to impact my life a lot.

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Brenda Winkle: Oh, I'm so glad!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, Brenda, this has been an amazing conversation. I have really enjoyed it.

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Brenda Winkle: I have, too. Thank you so much for having me, and for just being open and talking about the things that are sometimes taboo.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. Yeah. The same goes for you, because it's hard to have conversations like this with people that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: don't get it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I just look at you weird.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and you're on substack. So I want to make sure that people know that they can find you in 2 places. One is brendawinkle.com, and also your yesfilledlife.substack.com, and if you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I will put these in the show notes below. But you can also just search for Brenda over on substack, and and her

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: publication will come up, I know, because that's what I did.

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Brenda Winkle: That's amazing. Thank you for mentioning that I'm such a beginner. I didn't even know my URL over on substack. So thank you for sharing it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's that's your URL. And I'm excited to see where that blossoms to

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: cause. I think big things are coming for you over there.

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Brenda Winkle: Oh, thank you!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thanks for joining us today, and to learn more about Brenda and to schedule your energy audit. Please visit brendawinkle.com, and I'll be sure to put that link in the notes and thank you for tuning in with us. If you have a podcast or are interested in starting one, be sure to reach out to us at support@heartlifecoach.com.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We love to help spiritual entrepreneurs and coaches amplify their voice and monetize their mission, and offer a variety of ways to do this on substack, join us for our next episode, as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency. And remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world, start today and get visible.