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Hello, everyone.

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Welcome to this scaling expertise podcast.

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You may know me from the
hourly to exit podcast.

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This is the first interview under the
new rebrand, but we're still talking to

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experts about decoupling their income
from their time, using their expertise

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to create assets that can scale.

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And so I'm very happy to have my
first guest today, Jen T. Grace, and

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I need to ask you about that tea.

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Is that because there's
so many Jen Graces?

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I will say that on LinkedIn,
I call myself I'm so cool.

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Aaron Austin, because I've been on
LinkedIn so long, but now there are so

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many Aaron back in the day, there was like
the only air and Austin on the internet.

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And now there's lots and
lots of us, but it's wild.

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It's all branding, right?

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Going to figure it out.

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Exactly.

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Well, welcome Jen.

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So tell us who you are and who you help.

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I am an author and I'm also a publisher.

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So I am the author of seven books,
which include my memoir, House on

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Fire, and my nonfiction book, which
is called Publisher Purpose, which is

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also my company name, How to Write,
Publish, and Grow Your Big Idea.

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So my way that I show up in the world,
at least in this current iteration

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of myself for the last ten years, is
helping aspiring authors either figure

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out how to write their story, or to
actually publish their book for them.

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And it just kind of depends on
a number of different variables,

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kind of where people are.

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But, the publishing landscape is
pretty big and pretty complex.

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And so I really spent a lot of time
educating first time authors on all

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the nuances about how to actually
get their book out into the world.

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Tell us, what exactly
is a hybrid publisher?

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and distinguish it from
traditional and self publishing.

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Yeah, I'll give you the
abridged version I have.

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Lord knows I got plenty of information
on my website if anyone wants more.

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But it is basically if we look at
how publishing has always been, we

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think of traditional publishing, we
think of Simon and Schuster, we think

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of Penguin Random House, like the
big New York City publishing houses.

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That is traditional publishing.

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And with traditional and They only
serve a very small percentage of

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authors because of how their business
model works and how, they're looking

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for authors that have big platforms
and, can really sell a lot of books.

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Then, we have the other side, which
is self publishing, which is wonderful

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and there's a lot of people who do
it really well, but there's a lot

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of people who don't do it well.

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And self publishing can be overwhelming,
it's time consuming, it can be

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expensive, so there's all kind of that.

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Hybrid publishing sits directly in
the middle of both of those extremes,

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where you get the quality, the service,
the expertise of what you'd expect

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from a New York City house, but also
have that control and ownership and

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the IP of being able to own all of
that as if you were self publishing.

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And do you help people source like
all of the vendors that are required

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to publish and distribute a book?

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Yes, since we are a publisher ourselves,
we are the source of all of that.

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So that's kind of one of
those benefits of a hybrid.

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So if you're self publishing, you need to
start to kind of figure out, all right,

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how am I going to find a cover designer?

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How am I going to find an editor?

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All of those kind of big, I
don't know what I'm doing when

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you're working with a hybrid.

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All of those exist under one roof.

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Got it.

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Awesome.

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And so how long have you been doing it?

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And how'd you get into it?

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Well, I, I wrote my first book in 2012,
published it in 2013, published another

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one in 2014, and another one in 2015.

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So I had three books in three
years that all came out.

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And everyone in my network was like,
how did you know how to write a book?

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well, I don't know, I just figured it out.

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And they're like, well, how did
you know how to publish a book?

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I'm like, I don't know.

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I just figured it out.

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Were those books great?

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No, they were not.

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They are, especially now having been
doing this for as long as I have,

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those first few books were the typical
self published books that were not

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ideal, but I had a lot of people in
my network who were enthusiastic about

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wanting to write their own books.

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And I was doing consulting at the
time and I had my own business.

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So I was able to kind of like start
to dabble in All right What does

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it look like if I were to help?

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Writers figure out how to either
write or publish their books.

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And so I started a program in february
of 2015 So it's almost 10 years exact

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on the writing side Where the first
group of people went through my program

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in the beginning of february and I was
like I over 14 weeks to show you how To

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get your book published and I did that
a couple of times in 2015 and I had

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a couple of students say Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I love that.

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you're helping show me how to do it, but
I just want to pay you to do it for me And

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I was like what i'm like, what is this?

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I didn't even know hybrid publishing
was a thing at the time and I was like,

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well, Let me look into that and then
when the time the person said that to

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the time that I was like I need to do
this It was four days where I like really

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sat with it and I was like Ooh, I think
this is the thing that is scalable that

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will allow me to have a team to kind
of do the things rather than being a

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solo kind of independent consultant and
also kind of feed that brain of mine

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that is incredibly curious and wants
to know everything about everything.

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it kind of satisfies the personal
needs and professional needs.

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And so at that point I'm like, well,
I guess I'm going all in on this.

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So I closed my consulting
business down in 2017 and I've

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been doing it full time since.

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That is amazing.

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Well, you use the magic word scalable.

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And so lots of this audience will be
solo consultants who haven't quite

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cracked not selling their time.

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And so when you were looking at like what
could be scalable what things were you

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thinking about and how did you get there.

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Well, the funny part is what I was
thinking and then what ended up happening

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or not the same, but why was thinking.

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Because I was the solo independent
consultant and I had a really

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successful like mid six figure business
that did everything I needed to do.

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I had a lot less stress than I
currently have and I was doing

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a lot of keynote speaking.

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So I was tired of getting on a
stage and saying the same thing

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and people not taking the action
to actually see the results.

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So I was kind of getting fatigued
by having those conversations.

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So when I started that group writing
program and group publishing program, I

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was like, This is my ticket to scaling.

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I'm now not just me, I'm bringing
in groups of people, and then I

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can bring in a facilitator who
can then run the groups of people.

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And in that program still exists.

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It's called getting started for authors.

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It's a six month writing intensive and
10 years later exists in its phenomenal

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and it is completely self contained.

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We have facilitators.

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It's incredible, but my goal was
like just that, like at the time,

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like 10 years ago, my goal was
like, how do I just do with this?

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Because that's going to be
the thing that I can scale.

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And then the reality is that I ended
up starting a very labor intensive

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staff, heavy business and stuff.

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but obviously there's scaling in
that, but I was thinking more of just

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kind of scaling my time is really
what my, Objective was back in 2015.

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Yeah.

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I people forget employees
are absolutely scaling.

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You know, it's like, as the
founder owner, you are the most

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expensive resource in your business.

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And anytime you can carve off part of
what you do to another resource that can

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still provide the value to your clients,
that is successful scaling right there.

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And so it's not just about, Courses and
things like that, that people who hear

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about, but also just however you are
able to, more efficiently deliver value

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to your clients, which is fantastic.

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And so we're going to talk first
about because you mentioned AI and

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how it's working and publishing.

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Let's talk about AI.

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You know, I love to talk about that.

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But then I do want to
circle back around to.

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you know, the fact that you're
B Corp and some of the other

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good works that you do as well.

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But let's talk about AI and publishing.

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I love talking about AI and publishing.

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And I think AI, it's honestly
the thing that I think every

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business has to pay attention to.

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And I also think is, A little piece
of a secret for scaling, because I

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remember just a couple of years ago
where we were paying 20, 000 plus a

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year for copywriters to do a whole
bunch of things now AI is doing for us.

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And it's obviously taken a long time to
like really make sure that AI has a lot

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of inputs from uh, Our content and because
I'm on podcast, I have my own podcast.

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I've written books.

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It's very easy for it to
capture my voice because it has

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a lot of inputs to work with.

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Whereas I think folks that might
not have that might be a little bit

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harder, but it's not impossible.

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And so I think from a scaling standpoint
and just growth standpoint from a content

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alone, not even publishing specific,
which is content in general, think that's

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like the easiest, easiest way to do it
because we could take this recording,

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throw it into AI and say, Hey, create
a blog post about this or create a

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linkedin article about this conversation
I had with this really awesome person

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Aaron and it will do that for us.

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And so I think from that standpoint, it's
fantastic From a book specific standpoint.

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There's a lot of a lot of trickiness
happening right now because there's

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intellectual property problems
There's copyright problems.

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And so what we want to be mindful
and intentional of is In my case,

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we have a very flat policy that
is we will not accept a manuscript

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that has been generated by AI.

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It is just an absolute no because
there's too many unknowns, and

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I'm not getting sued because
someone was taking a shortcut.

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Can a book be assisted?

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So there's AI generated
and there's AI assisted.

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Assisted, sure, because if you're
like, hey, I'm trying to write a

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book, and I'm trying to figure out,
Here's all the things I talk about

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like, is there a way that you can help
me figure out a table of contents?

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Like those are all like really good ways
of using it, but actually just copying

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and pasting and dropping in whatever chat
GPT told you to is a very dangerous way

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to get yourself in trouble very quickly.

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Yeah.

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I mean, there's so many
things wrong with that.

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one of which, I mean, like actually
there's this quote of yours that I love,

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which is I passionately believe The more
raw and real we can be, the deeper the

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connections we can experience, that is
not happening with AI generated content.

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But from a purely legal perspective,
yeah, I mean, who knows what the sources,

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and the chat GPTs of the world don't
make any reps and warranties about.

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The materials that are coming out of
there, who knows if it's accurate,

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depending on, what you're writing about
where you absolutely need to have,

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up to date and accurate information.

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I'm losing track now, was it
two years ago, I think that.

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I first discovered chat GPT and it was
by accident because I am avowed, Luddite.

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I I'm like that.

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I get this done is a miracle.

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And I had to do continuing legal
education and I'm like, okay, what's.

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Available.

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And there was this thing about chat GBT.

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I'm like, Oh, okay.

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I guess I'll look at it.

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And so I'm kind of half listening
to it, and doing some work and

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they're talking about what it can do.

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And I'm like, and I just kind of open
up a, browser and put it in there

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and start playing around with it.

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I'm like, Oh my God.

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I mean, I really just to
me, AI was like blockchain.

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Like it was that there's no need
for me to ever know what this is.

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I'll never know what this is.

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And then I'm like, Oh my God,
and it obviously changed, not

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just changed my life, but changed
the world, obviously, as well.

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but the first thing that I tried after
I got off that call, off that  I had a

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client agreement that I was working on
where I needed to reference the law of

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a different state that was like, okay,
this law in this state covers this issue.

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I need that.

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similar law in this other state.

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And I just asked it that, and it came
up with this citation, everything.

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Oh, great.

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And I'm like, let me just check it.

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And it made it up, made it up completely.

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It's like, didn't even exist.

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And I'm like, okay, it was a very good
first lesson about the limitations of

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And while I will absolutely say that the
voice of AI has gotten a lot better in

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those two years, the fact that it can.

228
00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:22,299
hallucinate.

229
00:11:22,299 --> 00:11:24,529
I mean, that's just a
function of being generative.

230
00:11:24,529 --> 00:11:26,603
I mean, it's not, just Google.

231
00:11:26,803 --> 00:11:28,753
It is making assumptions.

232
00:11:28,763 --> 00:11:29,413
That's what it does.

233
00:11:29,839 --> 00:11:30,819
And so,

234
00:11:31,056 --> 00:11:34,086
there's all kinds of bias coded
into the programming of it, which is

235
00:11:34,086 --> 00:11:35,606
also problematic in a lot of ways.

236
00:11:35,616 --> 00:11:39,029
So it's an infancy, but I do think
it's one of those Things that like, as

237
00:11:39,029 --> 00:11:41,479
business owners, we can't ignore it.

238
00:11:41,539 --> 00:11:42,149
You know what I mean?

239
00:11:42,149 --> 00:11:44,139
I think it's one of those things, as
much as you might want to be like,

240
00:11:44,359 --> 00:11:45,786
uh, I'll come back to it later.

241
00:11:45,991 --> 00:11:48,216
Your competitors are going to
be using it and they're going to

242
00:11:48,216 --> 00:11:49,926
be going 10 X faster than you.

243
00:11:49,926 --> 00:11:51,746
And so I think that that's like
the thing of trying to find that

244
00:11:51,746 --> 00:11:53,876
balance for folks, especially for
those who are Luddites, right.

245
00:11:53,876 --> 00:11:57,453
Where it's like, Oh, this is the last
thing I want to do, but like, no offense

246
00:11:57,453 --> 00:12:01,529
to my aunt, I have an aunt in her sixties
who is, she's basically my mother.

247
00:12:01,709 --> 00:12:03,489
And she and I were chatting
about AI the other day.

248
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,819
Because she's like, I'm using it
for grant writing, I'm using it

249
00:12:06,829 --> 00:12:09,839
to do fundraising emails, because
she's a director of development.

250
00:12:10,122 --> 00:12:13,612
And I was like, oh my god, it brings
me such joy knowing, because can

251
00:12:13,612 --> 00:12:15,152
barely use her phone on a good day.

252
00:12:15,382 --> 00:12:19,113
And so like to see her like thriving
with AI, I really think this is going

253
00:12:19,113 --> 00:12:23,703
to help me extend my career well into my
late 60s, which wasn't her original plan.

254
00:12:23,703 --> 00:12:27,180
So it's kind of cool to see
these positive sides of it.

255
00:12:27,498 --> 00:12:30,795
Even if it's in its very clunky,
messy early stages, it's only going

256
00:12:30,795 --> 00:12:32,505
to improve from here, we hope.

257
00:12:32,668 --> 00:12:33,938
Yeah, absolutely.

258
00:12:34,155 --> 00:12:37,658
and speaking of, the efficiencies that
you get from it, I have clients that,

259
00:12:37,888 --> 00:12:40,162
their, employees are very eager to use it.

260
00:12:40,162 --> 00:12:44,465
Because there's, whatever the issue
is, there is an AI driven solution,

261
00:12:44,505 --> 00:12:45,485
period, like whatever it is.

262
00:12:45,655 --> 00:12:47,415
And so they're all like,
oh, I found this thing.

263
00:12:47,635 --> 00:12:50,478
But you have to balance
some of the downsides.

264
00:12:50,478 --> 00:12:53,178
And, you know, certainly, Is it secure?

265
00:12:53,188 --> 00:12:56,338
are you disclosing confidential
information when you're using it?

266
00:12:56,598 --> 00:12:59,438
obviously the quality
of the outputs as well.

267
00:12:59,620 --> 00:13:02,627
there are, some risk
management that's required.

268
00:13:02,957 --> 00:13:06,037
Definitely use it, but just be
mindful of its limitations and

269
00:13:06,037 --> 00:13:07,755
making sure you're, Watching that.

270
00:13:08,002 --> 00:13:08,232
Yeah.

271
00:13:08,582 --> 00:13:14,248
So now you are a B Corp. And
how does that feed into what you

272
00:13:14,248 --> 00:13:15,748
do like on a day to day basis.

273
00:13:16,218 --> 00:13:21,188
Yeah, I love that question because I am
so passionate about the B Corp community.

274
00:13:21,387 --> 00:13:25,470
And so a B Corp really this case
there's benefit corporations which are

275
00:13:25,470 --> 00:13:29,947
legal designations, and then there are
certified B Corps, which is a voluntarily,

276
00:13:29,987 --> 00:13:33,737
certification that you can go for that
basically says that you as a business

277
00:13:33,767 --> 00:13:38,567
meet the gold standard of sustainable
business practices, environmentally

278
00:13:38,567 --> 00:13:40,877
friendly practices, diverse practices.

279
00:13:40,887 --> 00:13:45,283
Like there's a whole litany of
things that it really kind of drives.

280
00:13:45,612 --> 00:13:47,652
You to have to be better and do better.

281
00:13:47,828 --> 00:13:52,278
And so when you see that, be in a
circle on packaging, it really means

282
00:13:52,278 --> 00:13:58,178
that that company has a deep commitment
to equity to, you know, and every

283
00:13:58,198 --> 00:13:59,318
everyone has a little bit different.

284
00:13:59,318 --> 00:14:01,768
So like in our case, like we
have a strong focus on diversity.

285
00:14:01,768 --> 00:14:04,948
And so we have a really, really
strong, diverse supply chain because

286
00:14:04,948 --> 00:14:06,228
that's something that I can control.

287
00:14:06,420 --> 00:14:08,501
And it's something I was already
doing before the B Corp thing.

288
00:14:08,501 --> 00:14:09,351
I even knew it existed.

289
00:14:09,547 --> 00:14:14,691
So there's really kind of cool
things around what the B Corp

290
00:14:14,864 --> 00:14:16,584
kind of that logo does for you.

291
00:14:16,614 --> 00:14:19,937
And there are consumers who are.

292
00:14:20,092 --> 00:14:25,092
Attuned to wanting to buy eco conscious
materials and goods and things like that.

293
00:14:25,092 --> 00:14:27,842
And so they see the B and they're
like, I don't care what the price is.

294
00:14:28,001 --> 00:14:29,022
It's a B Corp. I'm buying it.

295
00:14:29,022 --> 00:14:30,122
Like I'm absolutely that person.

296
00:14:30,122 --> 00:14:32,265
So even like there's alcohol
brands that are B Corp.

297
00:14:32,265 --> 00:14:34,458
So I'm like, is maker's
mark my favorite whiskey?

298
00:14:34,498 --> 00:14:36,288
No, but am I going to drink it?

299
00:14:36,538 --> 00:14:37,008
Yes.

300
00:14:37,238 --> 00:14:38,278
Because they're a B Corp. Right.

301
00:14:38,278 --> 00:14:39,368
So it's like one of those things.

302
00:14:39,698 --> 00:14:44,922
And so what I love about it is it really
is a market differentiator for businesses.

303
00:14:44,922 --> 00:14:48,342
So in the publishing space, it's
a really busy space in general.

304
00:14:48,422 --> 00:14:49,412
It's a very crowded space.

305
00:14:49,412 --> 00:14:52,055
Hybrid publishing is also
getting really crowded.

306
00:14:52,055 --> 00:14:56,275
And so I'm able to kind of have that
seal of approval that says to someone who

307
00:14:56,285 --> 00:15:00,945
is more focused on eco friendly side of
things to say, Oh, that means this company

308
00:15:01,190 --> 00:15:06,197
is doing things differently and operating
differently because the B Corp mantra

309
00:15:06,227 --> 00:15:09,247
is people and planet before profits.

310
00:15:09,413 --> 00:15:12,083
and it's not to say you cannot
run a profitable business because

311
00:15:12,083 --> 00:15:13,863
that is absolutely not the case.

312
00:15:13,883 --> 00:15:17,303
It is just saying that your focus
is on the stakeholders of who you're

313
00:15:17,303 --> 00:15:19,160
serving over your bottom line.

314
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,403
so that's how I look at it from
a decision making process of, can

315
00:15:22,403 --> 00:15:25,223
we make a decision here that is
going to put who we're serving?

316
00:15:26,303 --> 00:15:27,633
and also make us money.

317
00:15:27,837 --> 00:15:30,217
But if it's only going to make us money
and it's not putting who we serve ahead,

318
00:15:30,227 --> 00:15:31,287
then the answer is going to be no.

319
00:15:31,287 --> 00:15:34,847
So it's a nice way from a day to
day basis to gauge, how to make,

320
00:15:35,117 --> 00:15:37,607
how to make decisions that feel
aligned with what we're up to.

321
00:15:37,833 --> 00:15:38,123
Yeah.

322
00:15:38,163 --> 00:15:40,233
I will say there's no more timely.

323
00:15:40,233 --> 00:15:43,277
Well, we need to have this
conversation for a long time in the

324
00:15:43,277 --> 00:15:45,757
past, but we are where we are today.

325
00:15:45,797 --> 00:15:47,567
We, have very public.

326
00:15:47,822 --> 00:15:53,195
Case in the news regarding profits
well over people and people are

327
00:15:53,195 --> 00:15:59,268
really rethinking, the role that
businesses play in our lives and that.

328
00:15:59,557 --> 00:16:02,487
Is there a way for them to make
our lives better instead of just

329
00:16:02,547 --> 00:16:04,817
extracting, extracting, extracting.

330
00:16:05,187 --> 00:16:06,367
And the answer is yes.

331
00:16:09,003 --> 00:16:09,737
You would think so.

332
00:16:10,827 --> 00:16:11,977
And I think so.

333
00:16:12,553 --> 00:16:13,717
But it is a tough one.

334
00:16:14,037 --> 00:16:17,194
also I want to talk about
of the organizations that

335
00:16:17,194 --> 00:16:19,404
you mentioned, diversebooks.

336
00:16:19,524 --> 00:16:22,984
org, who, well, you tell us
about it and then we'll talk

337
00:16:22,994 --> 00:16:24,714
about like how it can play into.

338
00:16:24,937 --> 00:16:30,227
Yeah, so if we look at publishing
broadly, it has been very exclusive.

339
00:16:30,541 --> 00:16:34,317
In many, many ways for a very,
very long time, and it's just

340
00:16:34,317 --> 00:16:35,607
not how the world works anymore.

341
00:16:35,627 --> 00:16:37,787
It does not reflect what
the world looks like.

342
00:16:37,957 --> 00:16:40,527
At least, you know, I'm
thinking like publishing US

343
00:16:40,527 --> 00:16:41,917
based publishing specifically.

344
00:16:42,064 --> 00:16:45,991
And so when we look at, there's a
lot of independent organizations

345
00:16:45,991 --> 00:16:49,824
that are out there that are doing
really strong work to say, Hey,

346
00:16:49,844 --> 00:16:53,679
wait a minute, there's not enough
representation In this type of book.

347
00:16:53,872 --> 00:16:59,056
And so we need diverse books has been a
partner of ours, if you will, for a number

348
00:16:59,056 --> 00:17:02,686
of years, because instead of going back
to the B Corp decision making, right,

349
00:17:02,877 --> 00:17:07,676
instead of sending our authors some BS
plastic thing with our name on it for

350
00:17:07,676 --> 00:17:11,726
the holidays, we will make a donation
in their name to this organization.

351
00:17:11,726 --> 00:17:14,076
This year, we actually changed it to
a different organization, but same

352
00:17:14,136 --> 00:17:19,427
concept where we're The intention
is if I'm going to spend 10 on some

353
00:17:19,437 --> 00:17:22,997
nonsense gift, I'd rather give it to a
nonprofit who's doing really good work.

354
00:17:23,007 --> 00:17:24,627
And so like with, we need diverse books.

355
00:17:24,865 --> 00:17:30,195
their mission is largely based
on showing kids representation

356
00:17:30,195 --> 00:17:31,055
within children's books.

357
00:17:31,267 --> 00:17:32,605
We don't publish children's books.

358
00:17:32,605 --> 00:17:35,495
We are specifically business
books, leadership, self help.

359
00:17:35,495 --> 00:17:38,068
That's kind of our jam,
but at the same time.

360
00:17:38,277 --> 00:17:41,878
Like I don't need to be giving
money to another organization that's

361
00:17:41,878 --> 00:17:42,708
doing the work that we're doing.

362
00:17:42,708 --> 00:17:46,325
I'd rather give it to a non profit
who's going to help at least kids

363
00:17:46,415 --> 00:17:50,175
see themselves reflected back at work
and it's reflection of all different

364
00:17:50,185 --> 00:17:51,745
types of Elements of diversity.

365
00:17:51,745 --> 00:17:55,171
It's not just the diversity that you
can see it's a lot of different other

366
00:17:55,191 --> 00:17:58,614
areas And so, you know, it's one of
those things that I think we need

367
00:17:58,624 --> 00:18:01,524
diverse books does a really tremendous
job and they're obviously always looking

368
00:18:01,534 --> 00:18:05,572
for money and now when we look at just
the amount of book like book banning

369
00:18:05,572 --> 00:18:07,579
has been around for forever, right?

370
00:18:07,579 --> 00:18:11,149
It's just always been a thing It's just
becoming more prevalent and more common

371
00:18:11,379 --> 00:18:15,582
that books that were long held staples
In institutions are now like suddenly

372
00:18:15,582 --> 00:18:19,582
on banned lists And so there's a lot of
that that's happening and it's really

373
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:23,582
I think impacting Children's ability
to see themselves reflected back in

374
00:18:23,582 --> 00:18:24,942
books that are being held in school.

375
00:18:24,942 --> 00:18:27,982
So we have really cool organizations
that are doing all that work.

376
00:18:28,126 --> 00:18:29,614
I like to know what they're up to.

377
00:18:29,829 --> 00:18:31,617
I like to support them when we can.

378
00:18:31,896 --> 00:18:35,024
And I just, I love that that kind
of mission exists because, if

379
00:18:35,024 --> 00:18:36,034
you can see it, you can be it.

380
00:18:36,034 --> 00:18:38,004
It's such a cliche statement,
but it's really true.

381
00:18:38,004 --> 00:18:39,214
And it starts with kids books.

382
00:18:39,479 --> 00:18:41,909
speaking of banned books, it does
seem that if you look at the list

383
00:18:41,909 --> 00:18:44,199
of the most recently banned books.

384
00:18:44,487 --> 00:18:47,157
Diverse voices seem to be
really on the hit list.

385
00:18:47,157 --> 00:18:47,977
Honestly, sure.

386
00:18:48,457 --> 00:18:49,187
very sad.

387
00:18:49,491 --> 00:18:51,717
So let's circle back to
the work that you do.

388
00:18:51,717 --> 00:18:56,497
So you work with, thought leaders,
pretty general term, like who is your

389
00:18:56,507 --> 00:18:59,287
best client and what can they expect?

390
00:18:59,287 --> 00:19:03,364
Like, what is reasonable to expect
from having a hybrid, published book?

391
00:19:03,681 --> 00:19:04,141
Yeah.

392
00:19:04,141 --> 00:19:05,554
So I would say the best.

393
00:19:05,787 --> 00:19:09,167
Thought leader, if you will, is
someone who's motivated to do

394
00:19:09,167 --> 00:19:10,637
something bigger with their book.

395
00:19:10,637 --> 00:19:13,771
Because there's a lot of
very inexpensive avenues.

396
00:19:13,771 --> 00:19:16,741
Doesn't mean that it's gonna look the
best or be edited well or things like

397
00:19:16,741 --> 00:19:20,151
this, but like, if you wanna just
get a cheap book out quickly, just

398
00:19:20,151 --> 00:19:22,731
to say that you wrote a book, there's
plenty of paths that you can do that.

399
00:19:22,736 --> 00:19:23,511
Mm-hmm . Will do.

400
00:19:23,511 --> 00:19:25,401
I think it's gonna damage
your brand potentially.

401
00:19:25,431 --> 00:19:25,911
Yes.

402
00:19:26,051 --> 00:19:28,887
But at the same time,
it's an available path.

403
00:19:29,101 --> 00:19:29,381
It is.

404
00:19:29,381 --> 00:19:31,091
For someone who's really focused on I am.

405
00:19:31,666 --> 00:19:33,346
elevating myself as a thought leader.

406
00:19:33,346 --> 00:19:37,906
I have been, either a business leader or
sometimes it's corporate professionals who

407
00:19:37,906 --> 00:19:41,226
are kind of coming out of corporate and
now they're going solo and want to be an

408
00:19:41,226 --> 00:19:45,009
independent consultant, but want to have
some kind of credentialing behind them.

409
00:19:45,239 --> 00:19:48,299
Being an author is such a
great way to make that happen.

410
00:19:48,512 --> 00:19:50,066
But the authors that thrive.

411
00:19:50,456 --> 00:19:55,934
With us are the ones that see the book
as the in road to other opportunities,

412
00:19:55,954 --> 00:19:59,981
whether it's to be a guest on someone's
podcast, whether it's to go speak to an

413
00:19:59,991 --> 00:20:05,334
organization to get new clients, because
if someone's coming to me and says, I

414
00:20:05,344 --> 00:20:09,144
need to sell a hundred thousand copies
of my book the month that it comes out

415
00:20:09,164 --> 00:20:11,804
and they have no mailing list, they
have no platform, they have no nothing.

416
00:20:12,062 --> 00:20:15,032
it's a really wildly unachievable
goal, but I'll say like, hey,

417
00:20:15,032 --> 00:20:15,952
what's your motivation level?

418
00:20:15,962 --> 00:20:17,202
Like, what are you planning
on doing to do this?

419
00:20:17,202 --> 00:20:18,849
And they're like, oh,
What's just gonna happen?

420
00:20:19,072 --> 00:20:20,992
That is not how books sell
like that's just flat out.

421
00:20:21,492 --> 00:20:22,132
kind of a myth.

422
00:20:22,466 --> 00:20:25,606
So it's a matter of like if someone's
motivated to say, I'm gonna do

423
00:20:25,606 --> 00:20:28,826
whatever it takes to make sure that
my message not the book specifically,

424
00:20:28,826 --> 00:20:32,389
but my message gets into the hands
of as many people as possible because

425
00:20:32,389 --> 00:20:33,689
it's going to transform lives.

426
00:20:33,689 --> 00:20:34,899
It's going to impact people.

427
00:20:35,136 --> 00:20:36,949
That's the type of person
that we're looking for.

428
00:20:36,949 --> 00:20:40,726
The book is really just a very, very
small piece of a much, much bigger

429
00:20:40,746 --> 00:20:45,147
ecosystem that where plugging into
like our expertise is the book, but

430
00:20:45,147 --> 00:20:46,647
we also know how the ecosystem works.

431
00:20:46,657 --> 00:20:50,131
So we can provide really strategic
guidance and advice to say, Hey, know,

432
00:20:50,141 --> 00:20:54,147
if you want to do podcasting here, go
talk to this person here, go talk to this

433
00:20:54,147 --> 00:20:57,557
person for social media, whatever other
things that might accompany it, is really

434
00:20:57,557 --> 00:21:00,314
kind of our core focus is really that
motivated person who just wants to make

435
00:21:00,314 --> 00:21:02,324
a difference, but is business minded.

436
00:21:02,334 --> 00:21:04,394
So then there, I want to make
a difference and then has.

437
00:21:04,867 --> 00:21:06,874
Like fairytale ideas of
what that might look like,

438
00:21:06,974 --> 00:21:07,324
yeah,

439
00:21:07,574 --> 00:21:11,657
yeah, I think people are generally,
surprised by how hard it is to

440
00:21:11,657 --> 00:21:13,127
sell a book and to get attention.

441
00:21:13,371 --> 00:21:16,171
I think whenever we look at the
numbers for like the New York Times

442
00:21:16,211 --> 00:21:19,109
bestseller, we think that's like
a million copies, but what is it,

443
00:21:19,109 --> 00:21:21,172
it's like some, it's celebrity.

444
00:21:21,492 --> 00:21:22,262
Yeah, yeah.

445
00:21:22,566 --> 00:21:23,396
so thank you.

446
00:21:23,396 --> 00:21:24,236
That's very helpful.

447
00:21:24,246 --> 00:21:28,376
Well, it has been an absolute joy
to have you on the podcast, Jen.

448
00:21:28,396 --> 00:21:32,259
Thank you so much for being the
inaugural guest on scaling expertise.

449
00:21:32,561 --> 00:21:35,552
And so please tell everyone
where they can find you.

450
00:21:35,766 --> 00:21:38,556
And if there's anything that you're
offering right now you wanted to.

451
00:21:38,926 --> 00:21:39,216
Push.

452
00:21:39,226 --> 00:21:39,716
It's great.

453
00:21:39,786 --> 00:21:42,506
Otherwise, just tell us where we
can find you and connect with you.

454
00:21:42,776 --> 00:21:43,256
Awesome.

455
00:21:43,276 --> 00:21:43,676
Thanks, Erin.

456
00:21:43,676 --> 00:21:45,259
I love being the first.

457
00:21:45,259 --> 00:21:45,859
this is so great.

458
00:21:45,999 --> 00:21:47,059
I had no idea how fun.

459
00:21:47,219 --> 00:21:49,799
so the best way to find me
is publish your purpose.

460
00:21:49,999 --> 00:21:50,369
com.

461
00:21:50,629 --> 00:21:54,056
My focus really is on empowering
and educating first time authors.

462
00:21:54,056 --> 00:21:55,246
So we have a lot of.

463
00:21:55,311 --> 00:21:57,631
free resources that are readily available.

464
00:21:57,631 --> 00:21:58,481
There's no hard sell.

465
00:21:58,481 --> 00:21:59,991
It's just like, here's
what to think about.

466
00:22:00,001 --> 00:22:00,971
Here's what to consider.

467
00:22:01,127 --> 00:22:02,227
so that's the easiest way.

468
00:22:02,227 --> 00:22:06,054
If you want to connect with me personally,
LinkedIn is where I like to spend my time.

469
00:22:06,287 --> 00:22:08,194
I'm on all the other
platforms at Gen T Grace.

470
00:22:08,204 --> 00:22:11,121
However, LinkedIn is where you
will absolutely, find your way

471
00:22:11,121 --> 00:22:11,981
to actually connecting with me.

472
00:22:12,226 --> 00:22:12,876
Fantastic.

473
00:22:12,876 --> 00:22:18,249
And we will have all of those links in
the show notes as well as DiverseBrooks.

474
00:22:18,309 --> 00:22:20,716
org, great organization to support.

475
00:22:20,961 --> 00:22:22,343
And thank you again, Jen.

476
00:22:22,343 --> 00:22:23,423
It's been a pleasure.

477
00:22:23,671 --> 00:22:24,239
Thanks, Erin.

478
00:22:24,329 --> 00:22:24,849
Appreciate it.