andrea (00:00)

believing someone is hacking into your life online and watching what you do with the intent to use it against you or really for any reason will make you feel really unsafe, unsteady, nervous, and almost insane. So what do you do if you believe that you are being cyberstalked during your divorce? Well, we are going to tell you on this episode of how not to suck at divorce.

Morgan Stogsdill (01:01)

So today we have our good friend Stephen Bradley with us. He's a former FBI task leader and now has dedicated his professional life to educating people around the world about cybersecurity and cyber stalking. He's a domestic violence specialist and hopefully will not terrify you with his stories on today's episode, but I have a feeling he might. More importantly, he's going to tell you exactly what to do if you believe you are being cyberstalked. Stephen Bradley

Welcome back to how not to suck at диворс.

Steven Bradley (01:33)

Thank you, Mor thank you, Morgan. Thank you, Andre, for having me back. It's it's always a lovely time to be with you guys and it's always a fun and yes, scary topic too.

andrea (01:40)

Yeah, fun, fun and scary. Those those go together. Okay. So I want to start here. How would somebody even know if they're being stalked online? Like what are the first tells?

Steven Bradley (01:43)

Yeah.

Well, a lot of times things go unnoticed at first because they just write off. They just blow off as coincidence or whatnot. I can tell you when it comes to cyber stalking, especially in divorce cases or even domestic violence cases, the barrier to entry is very low. I already know a lot of information about you. We all play that twenty questions game. You know, what's your favorite color? What high school did you go to? Those are answers to security questions. So if I already know a lot of information about you, I'm already ahead of the game.

A lot of people have this misconception that these cyberstalkers are hackers. They're not hackers. They're basically just using information they already know about you against you. Shared passwords, IoT devices like ring doorbells and thermostats inside your home that you once shared, that they once had access to your Wi-Fi. We're worried about going through divorce and separating and finances and kids and where we're gonna live and things like that. We forget about the Amazon Alexa.

So there's all kinds of ways to to do this in a very, very informal way.

andrea (02:58)

So there's nothing that you could say that s if somebody's like, Huh, that's kind of weird that that's an indication. Like the nest doesn't light up in like all black that's like warning someone is watching you.

Steven Bradley (03:13)

What's typically happened with like the NES thermostat, for example, is they're going to adjust your thermostat just to mess with you. They're gonna know that you're either, you know, heat sensitive or cold sensitive. So they're gonna adjust the thermostat one way or another. They're gonna turn your lights. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Morgan Stogsdill (03:26)

Okay, stop.

andrea (03:26)

Is it wrong that I'm getting ideas right now instead of taking this seriously?

Morgan Stogsdill (03:30)

I mean I'm trying not to laugh over here because my

nightmare in life is a hot s hot sleeping is my nightmare.

Steven Bradley (03:38)

⁓ absolutely.

andrea (03:38)

Don't

mess with women in perimenopause.

Steven Bradley (03:41)

but now they

Morgan Stogsdill (03:41)

But actually

that's kind of an interesting one, right? That's just like a down low way to mess with somebody.

Steven Bradley (03:47)

Yeah, because we don't think about it. Like I said, the Amazon Alexa, something that we say, hey, you know, play me a song list or whatnot, they have what's called a monitor mode. That if I have access to it, I can pull up my app and I can listen to everything that's happening inside your home without you knowing. It doesn't announce and say, Hey, I'm listening to you. It just turns on and listens. I can turn your lights on and off just to mess with you. Things like that. But monitor mode, just a monitor, just a regular like a monitor mode. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's my text.

andrea (04:09)

It's called mantra mode.

monitor mode.

Morgan Stogsdill (04:16)

Creepy.

andrea (04:16)

Wait.

Steven Bradley (04:17)

My Texas Twang.

andrea (04:19)

Wait, I had no idea that that was a thing. Where does that get downloaded?

Steven Bradley (04:22)

Absolutely.

So it's just a regular app that you share on your phone. If you have an Amazon Alexa, you can have the app. So again, we shared a home together, we shared lives together. So we may have these apps on both our things because we want to know what the weather is or again, play a song list. But inside that app, you can just simply just turn on monitor mode. If you haven't changed the passwords or changed any settings to it, I now can listen to your inside your home. You get a new boyfriend, new girlfriend, yeah, anything.

Morgan Stogsdill (04:48)

Andrea's mouth.

Andrea's mouth that you can't see her listeners, but Andrea's mouth is completely wide open. For once I think she's out of words.

andrea (04:57)

I am so, I'm so bothered by this. Morgan, have you had clients come to you like over the years or probably more like recently, like when cyber stalking became like more of a real thing where people are like, I think that this is going on, but I'm not really sure.

Morgan Stogsdill (05:14)

Absolutely. And before, it almost made the divorce lawyers be like, okay, we had to evaluate, do we think our clients losing it? Or could something truly be going on? Because not everyone is super internet savvy. And a lot of people going through a divorce are super paranoid anyway, which is normal. So it's this level of could this be happening? But now we have resources like a Stephen Bradley. And if you're listening and you're saying, my gosh, this might be me.

We are going to link Steven's contact information in the show notes so that you could contact him if you wanted him to look at your devices or sweep things, et cetera. Because we've had situations, and I'll give one story, where effectively I had a client where the the ex kept showing up everywhere. Client wasn't posting on social media, was they were broken up, couldn't figure out how this ex was knowing where she was.

Lo and behold, we figured out that this ex had access to her internet, effectively like all of her information, and it was a it was a good way to kind of wake her up and switch off those toggles where this person was getting access to her private life.

Steven Bradley (06:24)

Another one too, because we all love our pets. We all love our puppies and our cats and things like that. I had a case recently where it where they were using the they have a pet these thick pet feeders, these treat feeders that have cameras in them so you can look at your pet and talk to your pet while you're at work during the day. Well, they didn't have ring doorbells or they didn't have video doorbell systems, but they had a pet camera and he was accessing her, he'd been watching her for three years through her pet camera and never knew because who changed the password to a pet camera?

andrea (06:29)

Yeah.

You know what, he's

allowed. If you're weird enough to have a pet camera, I think you're allowed to be watched. You maybe need to be watched if you've got nothing else going on.

Morgan Stogsdill (07:00)

Especially if it's a

Especially if it's a pet camera looking at like a cat. Like what do cats do? They do nothing, right? You should be watching.

andrea (07:05)

Yeah. That's where I draw

Steven Bradley (07:07)

Nothing. Not me.

andrea (07:08)

the line. Don't look at your cat.

Don't look at your cat. A dog I get. If you are spending your day looking at your cat, then you then I and then I'm gonna watch you. I want the log into that 'cause I wanna know what else is going on in

house.

my next question, which I think you've already answered, how easy is it to cyberstalk somebody?

Steven Bradley (07:36)

It's it's it's very easy. And like I say, what comes in typically as you think it's just unwanted text messages, anonymous emails, things like that, people always write that stuff off. 'Cause again, it's like, okay, well, we're arguing, we're doing this, we're separating finances, we're separating, you know, our lives, and they don't really pay attention to the early warning signs. They say, that's no big deal. It's just unwanted text, it's just spoof call, it's just he's just messed with me or she's just messing with me, whatever it may be.

But that will quickly manifest because once they think they can get away with something small, then they're going to try something even bigger. Then that's when you're gonna get the impersonations, the identity theft, things like that.

Morgan Stogsdill (08:16)

it's funny you say that, Stephen, because that's exactly what I'm seeing. It's like the little things that people let go because they're like, ⁓ I might be feel feeling crazy myself. And then it's the people that are cyber stalking, it's the people that are doing it, feel more empowered. So they keep going. And what you see is like you just said, people getting new numbers. Now all of a sudden you're getting called from random numbers, you're getting texts from random numbers. And you're wondering, okay, how is this possible?

Right. I didn't give my number to some guy in Nigeria to spam me all day, but I'm getting these random numbers that are saying things that really sound like my ex. And that's something that's certainly concerning.

andrea (08:56)

people who commit crimes, people tend to start off really small, right? Like you start off and you you get more confident, and the next thing you know, they're doing things that are dangerous and can really be a real safety concern. But I imagine that nobody, most people I would imagine, don't come right out of the gate swinging with.

Something really major. Most people probably test the waters.

Steven Bradley (09:24)

correct. We we use terms like gateway drugs, things like that. And these are gateway cyber stalkings, like I said, the little spoofs, the little here and there's. But unfortunately, today, once they can get away with it, it quickly expands out to your friends and your family. It doesn't always stay with just just you. The offender says, Okay, well, I got away with it with them. Now I can start bringing in family members, start messing with them as well. One of the common themes, and Morgan kind of hit on this already.

One of the common themes with any kind of cyber stalking or cyber related crimes, especially in divorce, is mental health. She's crazy. He's crazy. But again, I know a lot of information about you. And if you don't change passwords, if you don't take away my access, I can very easily manipulate you or your friends.

Morgan Stogsdill (10:12)

And legally, the issue that we see as divorce lawyers is, this stuff is super technical. Many divorce lawyers lawyers are not up to speed on it because that's not our forte. Many judges are not up to speed on it. And yes, we can all say, okay, this is weird. This, you know, device is connecting to my internet and that's not my device. But how do you link it to that person? And if you're wondering that, that's something that divorce lawyers are wondering. That's why we have a person like Steven.

We have the person like Steven come in and actually tie it all together because you as a lay person who's like, I think my ex is talking me, you don't have the ability to say, yeah, this IP address is my ex. Divorce lawyers don't have the ability without extra evidence and a witness like Steven.

Steven Bradley (10:57)

And a lot of people, they they feel like I have Chat GPT, I have AI things like that to help me, or my cousin is an IT person at, wherever. It's different. When it comes to process like this, finding the evidence and preserving the evidence is the biggest key.

andrea (11:12)

Morgan, I'm curious to know from a legal perspective, if somebody is like, yeah, I think this is happening, but I don't want to waste the money in talking to my attorney about this. This feels like such a headache. Does it really matter? Let them watch me through the cat feeder. Are there any legal ramifications if somebody does nothing?

Morgan Stogsdill (11:33)

I can't think of any legal ramifications if you sit there and do nothing about it except for the fact that you're living a life in hell because you believe at all times you are being stalked. But when it gets really dangerous, again, it usually starts small and it keeps building up. So what I would say there, I hear you if you're worried that maybe nothing will be found, or maybe I'm just thinking things. Andrea and I always talk about it, start a timeline. On this date, this happened.

Even if it's just a weird thing that you can't prove, write it down. This is how I know it happened. I got a weird message on my phone. If you get a weird message on your phone about somebody connecting or your ATT or your Verizon isn't working right, s snap a photo of it in that moment. And then on your timeline, the evidence I have of this is I snapped a photo. So that if you ever have to move forward on something, you've got a really good timeline. And then we have somebody like Steven.

to go back and you give that to them so that they can parse through what may be a h

andrea (12:33)

Would you recommend, Morgan, that if somebody is suspicious, they don't mention anything to their attorney until they have a timeline? Or do you think that it's important enough for the for it to be on the attorney's radar? Because my brain goes to, we're talking about starting small and then escalating. If you're in the middle of a custody battle, wouldn't you want all of that information to be out there that we're possibly dealing with somebody who is leveling up?

And their inappropriate behaviour, could be a safety issue for children.

Morgan Stogsdill (13:08)

absolutely. I think it's something you don't wait on. You have to tell your attorney, this is what I'm concerned about. And a lot of times I have many clients that say that. And we go through and we try to pinpoint all the passwords. Sometimes we start a new email. We do things to try to at least get that first layer of protection. If we need Steven, maybe that's a few layers down where we're dealing with a serious cyberstalker where things are going haywire, but at least alert your attorney to try to get that safety in place right away.

Steven Bradley (13:35)

the biggest hurdle is because people do wait. And with technology today, unfortunately, especially with IoTs and different devices, the metadata may erase itself, may go away. So timing is very important. Timing is of the essence in a lot of cases because we have to preserve that. And as Morgan mentioned, documentation, document anything, but don't just blow it off as coincidence.

if you see something, say something. We hear that all the time. Say something, mention it. Don't just think, Well, they're gonna think I'm crazy or whatever. No, because again it will manifest, it will progress.

andrea (14:08)

What's an IOT?

Steven Bradley (14:10)

And IoT is an internet of things. It's things that are in your home that connect to the internet. Your ring doorbell, your Amazon, your weight scale, your coffee maker, refrigerator, things like that. These wearable devices we all wear. IoT.

andrea (14:23)

Mike my

my coffee maker is connected to the internet.

Steven Bradley (14:26)

Some some are, yeah, I don't match your model, but some are actually connected to the internet. You get a button brewed cup of coffee, yes.

Morgan Stogsdill (14:32)

scared that someone's connecting to my weight scale and stopping me that way. What?

andrea (14:34)

you're gonna go there. Wait, I

Steven Bradley (14:35)

I get that

andrea (14:38)

wanna

Steven Bradley (14:38)

a lot.

andrea (14:38)

connect to your scale, Morgan. If there's nothing else that I get done this week, I wanna can I want us both to connect to each other's scales and just like how we can mess with the temperature, I wanna mess with your way.

Steven Bradley (14:48)

Accountability.

andrea (14:50)

Okay, I am gonna regret this. I know I'm gonna regret this. But Steven, what can happen? What can happen if this goes totally sideways? What have you seen?

Steven Bradley (15:04)

All types of things. I from anywhere from identity theft to just ruin your whole personal reputation. You know, with especially AI today, it's very easy to make deep fake videos of you, undressed. And I can then use that against you for your employer. Here so and so, you know, making love to so and so or whatever. ⁓ I can do a number of things. ⁓ but the f the stories that are out there, stories that I work with with clients, there's stuff like,

For years and years they've had access to my cloud and I had no idea. They're getting all my messages, they're getting all my social media, they're getting all my photographs and texts. They know my life better than I do. And they will obsess with that. They will look at that. It's not just air tags and trackers on my vehicle. That's a concern, but it's like the deep parts of your life that they're watching. It's kind of like the Truman show. They're watching you and you have no idea they're actually watching you. And that's where it gets creepy.

Morgan Stogsdill (15:59)

Alright, I want to throw up. but action step time, because if you've listened to this podcast, you know that we are a podcast of action steps. Because if you don't have action steps, in my mind, it's a worthless podcast. All right. The reason why you clicked on this episode, Steven, let's break down for us and our listeners the first three steps somebody should take if they believe they may be being cyberstalked.

Steven Bradley (16:22)

The very first thing is please, please, please, please do not delete anything. Preserve everything you possibly can. Take screenshots, export messages, you know, get a ⁓ email and save those somewhere else. Save them in a notes folder. Save as much and document as much as you possibly can. Create that timeline that you mentioned so we know when these events are occurring and how often they occur. Are they occurring while you're at work, while you're at home?

while you're picking up the children, things like that. Digital evidence is extremely, again, it's time sensitive. So we have to document as much as we possibly can to in order to preserve that. So that by far is the number one thing I can do. Photograph anything that's suspicious inside your home. Any new apps on your phone, don't just blow it off as well, the one where this app came from. That was an Apple. No, it wasn't Apple. That was somebody put an app on your phone in order to monitor you possibly.

the second one would be to secure your digital life. You actually have to take the time, and me i myself, I'm guilty of this as well. I never take the time to actually do a digital purge of my own information. Meaning I have old accounts out there that I've never closed out. MySpace, for example. Who the heck even remembers MySpace? But I never closed, yeah, I never closed my account. I mean it's still probably an active account somewhere on some server somewhere.

Morgan Stogsdill (17:38)

I do.

Steven Bradley (17:45)

You know, are your passwords compromised? Go ahead and assume they are. Just go ahead and know that all your passwords somehow he or she has access to all your passwords. Change them immediately. But also change your security questions because we talked about they know a lot of information about you.

thought you wanna say something,

andrea (18:01)

gross.

about Friendster? Do you think Friendster is safe or do I need to log back into Friendster?

Steven Bradley (18:05)

Mm.

I would say

I always say if something that you don't use anymore, I'm not sure how often you use Friendster. but yeah, just if you even if you can get access to it, just any accounts that you have that may be out there, you want to just close them out. And that's for different reasons. That's not just for cyber stalking from your significant other. That's from I can get access to possibly your password, a data breach. Because those old companies don't have ongoing security. And if I can get your password,

Fun fact, most people use the same password for every one of their accounts and they've never changed it. So if I can get your password from MySpace or Friend Store or whatever, I maybe get access to your bank account today.

Morgan Stogsdill (18:44)

All right, so that was scary number two. What's your third takeaway, your action item?

Steven Bradley (18:47)

Well and

and go actually go on number two. I want to can continue that one there's about securing it. Multifactor authentication is your friend. If it's available on any of your accounts, please turn it on. It's very easy today for a bad actor, an offender, your ex to get access to your devices. Through here with things called like phishing emails, where I send a link in an email or a link in a text message. I send you a photograph. When you open that photograph, I now have access to your device.

By turning on multi-factor authentication, you're going to get alerts saying, hey, are you really trying to log into this XYZ account? Look at your location sharings like Life 360, find my features on my phone. Snap maps. If those users use Snapchat, you know, look at your all your technologies and actually go through them and just do an audit and see if you're actually being safe. Everybody today wants to be an influencer. They want to be out there and they put way too much stuff online.

If you're going through a divorce or situation where it might be contentious, the less is better. The more don't be out there being, hey, I'm a Starbucks here on Ohio Street because now I know where you are. I can start my own timeline as to where you're going. Third one, get help early. We've kind of talked about this a couple of times. don't try to investigate this by yourself. Everybody wants to be a social media investigator. They want to be their own investigator.

I get It's it's cheap, it's fun, it can be whatever, but you can be causing a lot of harm as well. Try to get long local law enforcement involved when appropriate. If it's something that you're being followed or being stalked, you think that you may be in danger or one of your, you know, friends may be in danger, you know, a new partner you may have or something like that.

Morgan Stogsdill (20:31)

I gotta tell you one thing though, Steven, that I see. we have cyber issues, the police aren't doing anything. They're like rarely helping people. They're like, yeah, come on and file a police report that goes nowhere, basically. So unfortunately, good divorce lawyers have to take things into their own hands. They need to get the information from the clients, they need to hire experts like you. They need to go into court to seek the remedies because

I I will tell you I have had numerous times where these people go to the police and make a report and nothing comes of it. I mean, does that still matter? Do would you always recommend they still make a report?

Steven Bradley (21:06)

If you feel like you're being harmed, you know, harmful situation, being followed, things like that. But you're absolutely correct. It is a it's a it's a pain in my my behind my ass because a lot of law enforcement will blow it off. It's a misdemeanor, it's no big deal, we're not gonna worry about this. But in almost every single state across the country, the burden for cyber stalking is substantial emotional distress. And

If you can articulate a course of conduct, two or more events where you're being stressed out by this individual online, you have enough to actually file cyber stalking charges. But most law enforcement agencies will, like you said, just blow it off. And that's why you're correct. You're it's very important to get with your attorney, get with a professional, domestic violence advocate. If you're in situation where domestic violence is occurring, get with your advocate and they may have some resources available for you as well.

Your attorney is always going to be your friend. You know, they're always going to advocate for you on your behalf. You know, they're going to find people like me. They're going to find people to get you the right information, to take the right steps to protect you. You may have to get a forensic examiner. You may have to get something like that in there. The last one is your workplace. It actually can be your friend. If these are things are happening through your workplace computers or your devices, get with your IT department.

They can preserve that information just like I can. They can save IP addresses and information for you. Again, if it's happening, just say some. Get help early.

Morgan Stogsdill (22:29)

one thing I wanted to say legally, If you have a work issued phone and something is going really crazy, you probably have an IT department. So first speak to your lawyer because you don't want to cause problems at work, you know, with your job, et cetera, but you also want to make sure things are preserved. So speak with your lawyer first about whether to go to your IT department at the office.

andrea (22:51)

And something that I see in our private community on Facebook is there are people who have concerns about their soon-to-be ex cyber stalking them. And then when boundaries are recommended, they don't take action. Don't do that. If you are concerned about something, you have to act on it. And one of the biggest things that I think

really bothers me when I see it is somebody will recommend using a co-parenting app. They'll say, okay, if you're really worried that this is happening, you need to stop communicating directly with this individual and use a court monitored co-parenting app. And they say, no, no, that I don't I don't really want to go through all the hassle of that or I don't want to pay for it. That's where I also see you not taking action. And that could be something that can come back to bite you

Morgan Stogsdill (23:45)

that same vein, exactly. I've seen this too, where a client comes to me and says, I'm so scared. This person keeps showing up where I am. And I'm like, Well, where are you going? And they're like, This bar, this is where we always went as a couple. And of course that person is there. So it's like avoid the places that you know you're going to see the other person. Or the judge may say to you, Hey, what's your problem? You're so scared, but you keep going to the same places, putting yourself at risk.

So you have to be careful with your actions. And maybe, Andrea, going back to your question many questions ago to me about could that turn on you? That's where it can kind of turn on you is if you keep putting yourself in the similar situation.

Steven Bradley (24:24)

It it's called social engineering. We know a lot of information about you, just like dating apps. We may have met on a dating app once before. Well, if you've ever been on a dating app, they tell you how close you are to the person. They're two miles, three miles, four miles from you. And to Morgan's point, if you always go to the same neighborhood bar, I know you're always there because again, your apps tell me you're there, but more than likely you're gonna be there as well. Unfortunately, you may have to change your habits a little bit, you know, especially in the beginning.

Statistically, the first three to four months is the worst time after separation where people are gonna be stalked the most. Increases by thirty three percent. So change your habits for the first three, four months.

andrea (25:00)

And something that you mentioned before that I want to touch on again. You mentioned mental health playing a role in all of this, which you know, obviously. You guys going through something as difficult as a divorce will make somebody who might typically not do crazy things, do really atypical actions. So don't chalk this up to ⁓ but you know what?

Brinda's not like this. Chad's not like this. They would never. Especially if this is the person who was left. You don't know what this is going to drive them to. And it doesn't mean that for the rest of their lives, they're going to be an unhinged individual. It means that right now things are really hard and they're making some big mistakes. And you still need to protect yourself during this time.

Morgan Stogsdill (25:58)

And I see this a lot in relationships where the control basically has been broken. So you have a really rocky relationship. Most of the time you get into an argument, you come back to the person. You make it work. And even if the person's acting like out of control. And usually during the relationship, these types of cyberstalkers I see acted pretty out of control in a relationship. They were very unstable. But you went back to them over and over again. Okay, that's no big deal.

But usually what I see is that can be a pretty good indication of if you actually sever ties with them and that control breaks, they lose that control, that's when they start really ramping up and you're going to see these types of st cyber stalking behaviors.

Steven Bradley (26:37)

And also don't get frustrated. Validation is the biggest thing. And that's why I said go through your attorney. Start with your attorney, like Morgan mentioned, because they'll they'll validate what you're going through. Because they've seen this before. If your attorney h does not validate you or anybody you're working with does not validate you, find somebody new. Find somebody that will, because again, this doesn't get better, it gets worse as as as it progresses. Don't say, Okay, well, I'm okay, I must be crazy. Don't don't succumb to that. You know, you're not it's just a crazy situation. But

There's validation out there because there's there's help out there for you.

andrea (27:09)

When we had you on our show a few years ago, you recommended an app that I immediately put on my phone. And I just wanna know for personal reasons, is this still an app you recommend? It was a vast.

Steven Bradley (27:20)

so Avast is a great app. So I recommend any type of an anti-malware, antivirus type program for your cell phones as well, not just your computers. A vast is a is an antivirus, anti-malware program, and I have zero affiliation with them. But that was one at the time that was it was free, and for most parts it still is. They'll try to upsell you. But because there's so many exploits out there today where I can click on a photograph, a link, or something inside an email.

to trick you called clickbait to trick you into clicking on that, I can then take over your device. By having an antivirus anti-malware, it's going to possibly stop that from happening. A lot of people have this misconception that phones and like Android or Apples don't get viruses. All that means you're not going to get a virus from the App Store. They actually help prevent that. Doesn't mean that by you hitting a link, it's not an executable file. It's going to automatically download to your device. So again, people are getting very crafty today with how they are

Doing these exploits and getting access. So yes, I absolutely rem recommend an antivirus, anti malware for your cell phone too.

Morgan Stogsdill (28:25)

So I could see this happening in divorce cases. I haven't had this happen personally, but let's just play this out and tell me if I'm on the right track, Stephen. So I could see we always talk about Chad and Brenda on this podcast. Let's just say Brenda's the nut job. And Brenda wants to bait Chad. She wants access to his phone. She wants access to whatever she can get her hands on. What does she do? They're co-parenting, they're having a rough co-parenting. And somehow she is

Pretty tech savvy. So she basically embeds a link in a photo of their children, sends it to Chad and is like, Hey, check this out, click on it. Yo, there's other photos. The minute Chad clicks on it, it gives her access to his phone. Is that where you're going with that?

Steven Bradley (29:04)

Absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. And that's why to Andre's point earlier, co-parenting apps like Our Family Wizard is really great for that because it's a closed system. You can share your photographs through Our Family Wizard. You can share text messages. Everything stays contained. You can't spoof, you can't change, you can't manipulate. And it preserves it for evidence. It prevents them from trying to get access remotely to your device because again, it's a third party situation that documents everything that you're doing.

andrea (29:29)

That's why I think it's important that you advocate to use a co-parenting app, if this is where you're at, and have it on the record that your side is requesting that both parties use this. And then if you can't get this, if the other side says, No, I don't want to use the app, now you've got all this evidence if you've been keeping this timeline of why you feel like the judge needs to assign this app to your case.

But if you don't have the evidence, you're not gonna have a strong case as to why all of a sudden you, you know, Chad and Brenda need to go on a co parenting app. What about a VPN? Is that still something that we all need?

Steven Bradley (30:09)

Yes, VPNs are great. V VPNs, the virtual private network, for those who know what a VPN is. VPNs are almost necessary today. Not necessarily much on your cell phone, which is still a good idea. It operates a little bit differently, but any kind of computer or device, a VPN basically masks your identity, masks your locations online.

The worst thing that you can use is public Wi-Fi. And what I mean by that is Starbucks, McDonald's, these free Wi-Fi pop-ups everywhere you go. If you're on their Wi-Fi and I'm on their Wi-Fi, there's a very good chance I can see what you're doing.

I can become their Wi-Fi and do a man in the middle attack and see exactly what you're doing. By having a VPN, it's going to minimize that.

Morgan Stogsdill (30:50)

So if I'm at Starbucks and I'm like, gosh, I need internet, is the safer thing to do to get the internet through your phone?

Steven Bradley (30:57)

yes, so it's always gonna be safer to go through your phone's hotspot than it's going to be through public Wi-Fi. But if you are at Starbucks, you need Wi-Fi, that's where that VPN comes into play. So by turning on the VPN, you are essentially part of their Wi-Fi, but not part of the Wi-Fi. You become encrypted, encapsulated in almost like a straw, you know, so a coffee stir, we'll use a the coffee analogy. And I will not be able to s from a see what you're doing inside that connection.

So that's why VPNs are also very, very helpful. Talking about VPNs, be very, very cautious using a free VPN out of your app store. All basically free means in an app store is, hey, we're gonna take all your data and sell it to the highest bidder. We're gonna put more information about you out there. The paid ones are not very expensive. There's some really good ones out there: NordVPN, Proton, you know, private internet access. There's several good ones out there. Find what's best for you and your price point and use that one.

also there's a lot of security things in there as well where they won't give up your logs, your IP logs and things because they don't record that. So there's some security things there as well.

Morgan Stogsdill (32:02)

I know a lot of our listeners have children, especially middle aged children, that all want to get on their phone, meaning their parents' phone or on their iPads and download all these games, right? Some are paid games, some are the ones that are free at first, and then it's like paid in app games. So are those I would assume also stealing your information and selling it to the highest bidder?

Steven Bradley (32:25)

Absolutely. Most people, and in fact, the last report I saw is from Deloitte, says less than six percent of people actually read terms and conditions of apps or any kind of programs they download. So they can very easily hide in there that, hey, by you downloading this app, we're gonna get access to your phones, your camera, your camera on your phone, your contact list, your shopping habits, things like that. So be very cautious. Also, speaking of gaming, since you talked about kids.

Parents out there, please, please, please be very cautious about Discord and the things that are happening on Discord. It's not just rumor, it's not just, you know, conspiracy, whatever. Do your own research. There's a lot of horrible things happening on Discord in these games where they're taking advantage of our kids. There's groups out there that are targeting children through Discord. So talk about online gaming.

andrea (33:13)

So overall, the biggest takeaway, if somebody walks away just with one

Piece of information, Steven. What is that one thing besides the fact that you should not have a video on your cat feeder?

Steven Bradley (33:29)

the biggest takeaway is just know that technology is is not the problem. I mean, stalking's been around for generations. Technology just makes it easier. We have to be diligent and basically be self-preserving and take care and audit our own stuff and take care of that. You don't have to be paranoid. Just be aware. Be aware that, this didn't happen yesterday. This didn't happen last week. I mean, just don't.

Don't write off as coincidence. Just say, okay, let's make a note of that, what this actually may be. And that's the biggest kind of takeaway is basically don't put your head in the sand. Privacy is safety for a reason. And if you're not, if something's compromised, you're compromised.

andrea (34:07)

the easiest way to be aware and not paranoid is to take action. The minute that you take some action and you document something, it's gonna lower that paranoia. Paranoia is gonna grow when we when we do nothing. And you just start sitting and stewing in all the things that could be. So it goes back to the beginning. If you see something, say something.

If you see something, if something doesn't feel right, yeah, mention it to your attorney and start documenting. I I I went through this, I lived this, I can tell you the doing nothing will is the part that will make you feel crazy. And the crazier that you feel, the crazier that you will start to behave. The crazier you behave, the more expensive your divorce process gets. And

You are going to start making mistakes. We told you guys we're going to have a direct link in the show notes. So how you can get in touch with Steven should you need some more guidance. We're also going to have a direct link to Our Family Wizard. And just as a reminder, guys, we are the only podcast that has the relationship with Our Family Wizard where if you go through us, you can save 20% off on the essentials package for your first year.

If you are in this situation, you guys, please share this information with your attorney and get a co-parenting app assigned to your case.

Morgan Stogsdill (35:38)

this stuff is only going to continue to happen. The more that we evolve with the internet, it's going to continue to happen. That's what I'm seeing. So just make sure that you're preparing yourself not only for your divorce, but also potentially any sorts of cyber issues. That said, if you need more community, go to our private community. It's free. we're on all the socials.

If you need more than that, we have the DCC, the divorce crash course. Check it out. It's only $50. It will give you a roadmap for your divorce. And if you need anything, you can always send us a direct message. We do respond because divorce is a marathon. It is not a sprint. Every day is not a good day. And every day, some days I should say, it's day by day. Other days it's hour by hour. And that's okay. You are doing this and you're going to get through this.

andrea (36:25)

you are taking action by even listening to this show. Post questions in the private community, reach out, take a step towards being healthier and happier, which you're already doing. We are so proud of you.

You are going to get through this. I know that you will. And remember, my friends, you have got this.

Morgan Stogsdill (36:46)

And we have got you.