1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:02,360 W. Curtis Preston: I actually developed skills of being able to 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:08,755 reassemble the door, like to take a, to cannibalize another tape and 3 00:00:08,755 --> 00:00:11,904 take the little door off and putting it onto a tape that I needed it on. 4 00:00:12,095 --> 00:00:14,675 Pay Mayock: Yeah, I guess that's why the tape evolved. 5 00:00:16,735 --> 00:00:17,185 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah 6 00:00:36,803 --> 00:00:39,667 Hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore it All podcast. 7 00:00:39,667 --> 00:00:40,387 I'm your host, W. 8 00:00:40,387 --> 00:00:42,157 Curtis Preston, AKA Mr. 9 00:00:42,157 --> 00:00:47,367 Backup and I have with me, my vaccine side effects, counselor Prasanna 10 00:00:47,367 --> 00:00:49,117 Malaiyandi how's it going, Prasanna? 11 00:00:49,357 --> 00:00:50,777 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I am not a medical doctor. 12 00:00:50,777 --> 00:00:54,347 Any advice I give is should not be construed as medical advice. 13 00:00:54,347 --> 00:00:56,087 Please seek professional help. 14 00:00:56,087 --> 00:00:56,687 If you need some. 15 00:00:57,557 --> 00:00:59,447 I'm doing okay, Curtis, how are you 16 00:00:59,927 --> 00:01:02,777 W. Curtis Preston: oh, it was a pretty as a pretty rough day yesterday. 17 00:01:03,827 --> 00:01:08,377 I, um, and I don't know if it's, you know, because I chose to do both. 18 00:01:08,737 --> 00:01:14,102 I got my, you know, I got my, my fourth COVID jab as well as I got 19 00:01:14,102 --> 00:01:16,532 the second of the shingles vaccines. 20 00:01:16,532 --> 00:01:18,122 And I got both of them at one time. 21 00:01:19,022 --> 00:01:23,252 And it's, this is actually of, of all of the shots that I've had recently. 22 00:01:23,252 --> 00:01:27,152 Cause you know, I get my annual flu shot and I got all the COVID shots 23 00:01:27,152 --> 00:01:32,587 and um, Uh, and I got the shingles shot, but the first shingles shot, 24 00:01:33,097 --> 00:01:36,307 that sounds like it shouldn't sound the way that anyway, shingles shot. 25 00:01:36,757 --> 00:01:40,957 Uh, this is the first time that I was, it just knocked me on 26 00:01:40,957 --> 00:01:44,437 my butt and, uh, I took drugs. 27 00:01:44,437 --> 00:01:45,097 Didn't help. 28 00:01:45,787 --> 00:01:48,757 I just, so I just laid around and moaned and groaned. 29 00:01:48,757 --> 00:01:50,857 So really all I could do is call my friends 30 00:01:50,952 --> 00:01:53,382 Prasanna Malaiyandi: But you're feeling better, a little better. 31 00:01:54,102 --> 00:01:56,952 W. Curtis Preston: I'd say I'm at about 90%, which is 32 00:01:56,952 --> 00:01:58,932 really that's, let's be honest. 33 00:01:58,932 --> 00:01:59,592 That's how that's, 34 00:01:59,727 --> 00:02:00,057 Prasanna Malaiyandi: that's most 35 00:02:00,342 --> 00:02:03,492 W. Curtis Preston: as good as I need to do to do a podcast. 36 00:02:03,492 --> 00:02:03,812 I mean, 37 00:02:04,812 --> 00:02:04,972 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, 38 00:02:05,192 --> 00:02:09,149 W. Curtis Preston: If If I be on stage or something, that would be a problem, 39 00:02:09,297 --> 00:02:11,097 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, I'm glad you're feeling better, Curtis. 40 00:02:11,097 --> 00:02:13,767 And yeah, like you said, hopefully by the end of today, you should 41 00:02:13,767 --> 00:02:15,057 be back up to a hundred percent. 42 00:02:15,977 --> 00:02:16,517 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 43 00:02:16,607 --> 00:02:20,507 Uh, or a hundred percent of me, which is, you know, who knows 44 00:02:20,507 --> 00:02:21,617 what that is for other people, 45 00:02:22,377 --> 00:02:22,877 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Your bubbly you. 46 00:02:23,187 --> 00:02:23,647 Come on, Curtis 47 00:02:23,667 --> 00:02:24,867 W. Curtis Preston: uh, bubbly me. 48 00:02:24,897 --> 00:02:25,377 Yeah. 49 00:02:25,527 --> 00:02:31,917 Um, but, uh, yeah, I, you know, I'm fully, fully support all the vaccines 50 00:02:31,917 --> 00:02:37,077 and everything, but sometimes you get those, you get those side effects. 51 00:02:39,177 --> 00:02:41,327 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, I told you, I think we, maybe we talked about 52 00:02:41,347 --> 00:02:45,507 on the podcast, but yeah, when I got my first booster shot back during 53 00:02:45,507 --> 00:02:49,977 Thanksgiving, like we basically had to, we did it the day before Thanksgiving, 54 00:02:49,977 --> 00:02:51,507 which is the wrong time to do it. 55 00:02:52,347 --> 00:02:55,167 Thanksgiving day, my wife and I, neither of us could get up. 56 00:02:55,197 --> 00:02:56,157 Like I was just. 57 00:02:57,362 --> 00:03:00,122 Exhausted like fever, you name it. 58 00:03:00,122 --> 00:03:03,482 I had the symptoms and so we ended up postponing Thanksgiving 59 00:03:03,482 --> 00:03:04,472 dinner till the next day. 60 00:03:05,767 --> 00:03:08,767 W. Curtis Preston: Druva had our, our SKO last week. 61 00:03:09,547 --> 00:03:12,817 Uh, you know, my wife wanted to get the shots last week. 62 00:03:12,817 --> 00:03:15,157 Cause we have an upcoming trip where we going to be hanging out 63 00:03:15,157 --> 00:03:16,087 with a bunch of family members. 64 00:03:16,087 --> 00:03:19,987 So we wanted to get the booster and I didn't want to get it right before SKO. 65 00:03:20,037 --> 00:03:22,317 And I'm glad, I'm glad I didn't. 66 00:03:22,317 --> 00:03:23,817 That would have been a crappy 67 00:03:24,287 --> 00:03:25,457 Prasanna Malaiyandi: That would have been miserable 68 00:03:25,772 --> 00:03:29,012 W. Curtis Preston: uh, speaking of Druva, uh, Prasanna and I work for different 69 00:03:29,012 --> 00:03:31,122 companies and, uh, I work for Druva. 70 00:03:31,142 --> 00:03:34,112 He works for Zoom, and this is not a podcast of either company. 71 00:03:34,572 --> 00:03:36,392 Any opinions that you hear are ours 72 00:03:36,752 --> 00:03:38,112 Prasanna Malaiyandi: or Curtis's really 73 00:03:38,167 --> 00:03:40,987 W. Curtis Preston: Pretty much, uh, and be sure to rate us at 74 00:03:40,987 --> 00:03:46,057 ratethispodcast.com/restore and, uh, or, you know, on your favorite 75 00:03:46,057 --> 00:03:49,657 podcatcher just scroll down to wherever they have their ratings and give us 76 00:03:49,657 --> 00:03:51,907 some stars and some comments, uh, 77 00:03:52,687 --> 00:03:54,212 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Curtis loves reading the comments. 78 00:03:55,082 --> 00:03:56,282 He wants more comments. 79 00:03:56,282 --> 00:03:56,762 People come 80 00:03:56,762 --> 00:03:57,212 on. 81 00:03:57,837 --> 00:03:58,527 W. Curtis Preston: give us comments. 82 00:03:58,527 --> 00:03:58,977 We love it. 83 00:03:59,067 --> 00:04:04,707 Um, and, uh, also if you, you know, if you have something to say in 84 00:04:04,707 --> 00:04:10,737 this space, backup recovery archive, uh, cybersecurity, ransomware 85 00:04:10,737 --> 00:04:13,467 tape, disc cloud, I don't know. 86 00:04:13,467 --> 00:04:14,127 Did I cover it? 87 00:04:14,577 --> 00:04:16,167 Privacy, privacy as well? 88 00:04:16,167 --> 00:04:16,947 Absolutely. 89 00:04:17,067 --> 00:04:20,912 Um, you know, We'd love to have you on just reach out, to reach 90 00:04:20,912 --> 00:04:26,132 out to me at wcurtispreston@gmail or @wcpreston on Twitter. 91 00:04:27,782 --> 00:04:31,032 So let, uh, let us get on to our guest. 92 00:04:31,052 --> 00:04:34,922 He is, uh, been in the data protection space for longer than 93 00:04:34,922 --> 00:04:36,692 I have, which is saying something. 94 00:04:37,277 --> 00:04:42,977 And, um, having worked at a number of, uh, companies and he is now, 95 00:04:42,977 --> 00:04:45,677 I love, this is actually what made me invite him on the podcast. 96 00:04:45,677 --> 00:04:49,727 I was looking on LinkedIn and his title says data protection 97 00:04:49,757 --> 00:04:51,767 warrior, I love that title. 98 00:04:51,767 --> 00:04:52,937 I may just steal that title. 99 00:04:53,472 --> 00:04:54,132 The heck with Mr. 100 00:04:54,132 --> 00:04:57,342 Backup, I'm going to go with data protection, warrior, uh, and 101 00:04:57,342 --> 00:04:59,832 Crusader of LTO tape and RDX that. 102 00:05:00,522 --> 00:05:02,422 Welcome to the podcast, Patrick 103 00:05:02,482 --> 00:05:05,227 Pay Mayock: Thank you very much for inviting me, uh, 104 00:05:05,257 --> 00:05:06,697 looking forward to the podcast. 105 00:05:07,667 --> 00:05:10,517 W. Curtis Preston: And, uh, and actually I should call you pat right now, Patrick, 106 00:05:10,537 --> 00:05:12,447 Pay Mayock: That's right Make it Pat. 107 00:05:12,447 --> 00:05:13,337 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, no problem. 108 00:05:13,367 --> 00:05:14,117 So welcome. 109 00:05:14,147 --> 00:05:15,437 Welcome to the podcast, Pat. 110 00:05:15,797 --> 00:05:20,597 And, uh, I think the first thing we have to get off the, off the, 111 00:05:21,347 --> 00:05:26,169 off the table here is that whatever that is behind you, because it looks 112 00:05:26,229 --> 00:05:29,949 Pay Mayock: So I grew up, uh, all over the United States, but spent most 113 00:05:29,949 --> 00:05:31,599 of my time in Southern California. 114 00:05:32,199 --> 00:05:37,589 Um, and actually right in Aliso beach where these, this sport began. 115 00:05:38,214 --> 00:05:40,314 That's a skim board, basically. 116 00:05:40,824 --> 00:05:42,744 It's, I've been making these since I was a kid. 117 00:05:43,164 --> 00:05:44,724 I got out to Colorado. 118 00:05:44,964 --> 00:05:49,944 I still take vacations and I still make them on, take them with me and 119 00:05:49,944 --> 00:05:51,504 then, uh, for friends and family. 120 00:05:51,504 --> 00:05:54,744 So they'll give me a call and say, Hey, we're now in Florida. 121 00:05:54,774 --> 00:05:55,704 Can you help me out? 122 00:05:55,704 --> 00:05:58,884 So yeah, I still make them and they're pretty fun. 123 00:05:59,499 --> 00:06:00,639 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So for people who may not be 124 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:01,919 familiar, what's a skim board? 125 00:06:02,789 --> 00:06:06,599 Pay Mayock: So, especially in Southern California, the beaches are steep. 126 00:06:06,629 --> 00:06:07,079 Okay. 127 00:06:07,079 --> 00:06:08,129 And the water is cold. 128 00:06:08,369 --> 00:06:12,479 So the water comes up and splashes back down, you run across the 129 00:06:12,479 --> 00:06:14,939 shoreline, as the water is going down. 130 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,309 If you're good, you throw the board, jump on it and slide down. 131 00:06:20,309 --> 00:06:25,439 If you're really good, you slide down towards the incoming wave and 132 00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:29,089 it's a, it's a short break and you come up it and you come back down. 133 00:06:29,539 --> 00:06:29,909 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Um, 134 00:06:29,909 --> 00:06:31,914 Pay Mayock: And it's, it's an amazing sport. 135 00:06:32,304 --> 00:06:33,384 I can't do that. 136 00:06:33,384 --> 00:06:37,014 I can sort of go horizontal maybe three or four times. 137 00:06:37,014 --> 00:06:41,244 So they've got to stop and sit down, but that skimboarding 138 00:06:42,069 --> 00:06:42,669 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Gotcha. 139 00:06:42,709 --> 00:06:45,109 W. Curtis Preston: And so it's got no fins or anything that would be, 140 00:06:45,354 --> 00:06:45,984 Pay Mayock: nothing. 141 00:06:46,464 --> 00:06:47,434 Yeah, no fins. 142 00:06:47,434 --> 00:06:50,664 It's flat, a little bit of a, of a spoon to it. 143 00:06:50,784 --> 00:06:53,384 And, uh, yeah, it's a lot of fun. 144 00:06:54,684 --> 00:06:55,254 W. Curtis Preston: Amazing. 145 00:06:55,449 --> 00:07:00,159 Um, I actually, I, I, I think I've seen that some, cause I, you know, I live in 146 00:07:00,159 --> 00:07:03,789 Southern California, but I don't spend, I don't spend enough time at the beach, 147 00:07:03,789 --> 00:07:07,089 but I I've seen that, but I, I don't know. 148 00:07:07,299 --> 00:07:09,069 I don't think I knew what I was looking at. 149 00:07:11,624 --> 00:07:11,954 Pay Mayock: Yeah, 150 00:07:12,389 --> 00:07:15,329 W. Curtis Preston: But, uh, but you, you are a, I guess, an avid 151 00:07:15,329 --> 00:07:18,419 skim boarder to the point of actually making your own skim boards 152 00:07:18,824 --> 00:07:19,694 Pay Mayock: that's about it. 153 00:07:20,599 --> 00:07:23,869 W. Curtis Preston: and you live in, you know, a little far from the 154 00:07:23,949 --> 00:07:27,249 Pay Mayock: A little far, but, uh, I've been here for 20 years. 155 00:07:27,309 --> 00:07:28,299 I love Denver. 156 00:07:28,299 --> 00:07:30,969 I love, uh, it works out well for business because you can 157 00:07:30,969 --> 00:07:32,319 get anywhere you want to get to. 158 00:07:32,919 --> 00:07:36,429 We've got all the weather, sometimes all the weather in the same day, but 159 00:07:36,429 --> 00:07:38,919 we have all the weather, so it's good. 160 00:07:39,204 --> 00:07:39,714 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 161 00:07:39,894 --> 00:07:46,164 I've spent quite a bit of time in and around Boulder and Denver and, um, having 162 00:07:46,194 --> 00:07:49,494 visited a lot of the, you know, the tape companies that tend to be out there. 163 00:07:49,824 --> 00:07:57,684 Um, and I, I ha I have some pictures of what is, what is now an abandoned 164 00:07:57,984 --> 00:08:02,524 factory or whatever, you know, the, the tape drive right out there. 165 00:08:02,524 --> 00:08:04,974 W what that used to be StorageTek facilities, right. 166 00:08:06,184 --> 00:08:06,514 Yeah. 167 00:08:06,544 --> 00:08:06,904 Yeah. 168 00:08:06,934 --> 00:08:12,154 I've got some really good photos of the, of the street signs for Tape Drive, but 169 00:08:12,489 --> 00:08:13,869 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I used to work on Tape Drive, 170 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:17,769 visit the office, used to visit the campus out there. 171 00:08:17,769 --> 00:08:22,629 So at my, one of my prior employers, EMC had a office on 172 00:08:22,629 --> 00:08:24,069 Tape Drive right off Tape Drive. 173 00:08:24,714 --> 00:08:25,344 W. Curtis Preston: Interesting. 174 00:08:25,959 --> 00:08:27,909 Prasanna Malaiyandi: those factories that you probably have pictures of. 175 00:08:27,909 --> 00:08:30,879 But I think when I went out there, it was just like an abandoned field. 176 00:08:30,879 --> 00:08:32,049 I think all those factories were 177 00:08:32,049 --> 00:08:32,319 gone. 178 00:08:32,694 --> 00:08:33,114 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 179 00:08:33,174 --> 00:08:34,074 Yeah, it's pretty. 180 00:08:34,404 --> 00:08:36,474 I'll let, um, pat, has anything 181 00:08:36,474 --> 00:08:36,984 happened out 182 00:08:36,984 --> 00:08:37,284 there 183 00:08:37,649 --> 00:08:41,609 Pay Mayock: No, no, they moved on obviously, uh, the land's got a lot of 184 00:08:41,609 --> 00:08:44,759 value, but for now it's still a empty lot. 185 00:08:44,759 --> 00:08:45,129 W. Curtis Preston: Hmm. 186 00:08:46,129 --> 00:08:50,734 Hey, you know, anybody looking for some, for some manufacturing facilities 187 00:08:51,634 --> 00:08:55,164 go, uh, plenty of land out there is, is it that is Boulder, right? 188 00:08:55,934 --> 00:08:58,949 Pay Mayock: Yes, it is just as you come down the hill, it's off to your right. 189 00:08:59,009 --> 00:09:00,239 It's a great location. 190 00:09:01,099 --> 00:09:02,059 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 191 00:09:02,389 --> 00:09:06,709 Uh, and you can, you have access to Pat, so, but Pat, you have a job. 192 00:09:06,739 --> 00:09:08,959 You work actually for hPE, right? 193 00:09:09,359 --> 00:09:10,109 Pay Mayock: That's correct. 194 00:09:10,109 --> 00:09:12,659 So I'm a, I'm a business partner manager. 195 00:09:12,719 --> 00:09:18,839 I work with our, uh, HPE partners to help them sell more, you know, tape media, 196 00:09:18,869 --> 00:09:24,179 tape libraries, the whole business of data protection, but focusing on currently 197 00:09:24,239 --> 00:09:28,819 focusing on the tape media, uh, the RDX product, which is a little bit unique. 198 00:09:29,299 --> 00:09:30,969 Uh, and then helping out with tape libraries. 199 00:09:32,304 --> 00:09:34,254 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'm going to ask the obvious question just because 200 00:09:34,254 --> 00:09:39,294 most of our listeners are probably like isn't tape dead and I'm sure 201 00:09:39,294 --> 00:09:40,334 we're going to talk about that. 202 00:09:40,494 --> 00:09:41,034 Just playing. 203 00:09:41,064 --> 00:09:45,114 I know we've had a lot of podcasts episodes talking about tape, but 204 00:09:45,114 --> 00:09:47,694 just for all the listeners who may not have heard some of our past 205 00:09:47,694 --> 00:09:49,914 episodes, uh, pat, maybe you could give 206 00:09:49,914 --> 00:09:50,184 your 207 00:09:50,629 --> 00:09:52,579 W. Curtis Preston: you just, you just hurt my heart 208 00:09:52,824 --> 00:09:54,164 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I know. 209 00:09:54,164 --> 00:09:57,714 So, so this is me channeling our listeners 210 00:09:59,284 --> 00:10:04,564 Pay Mayock: So it's interesting because I, I started out selling nine track tape 211 00:10:05,284 --> 00:10:11,614 way back when the reels I've got one over here, but so that tapes around for 212 00:10:11,614 --> 00:10:16,714 a long time, it had a 20 year lifespan and then tape moved on to all types of 213 00:10:16,714 --> 00:10:18,814 technologies, competing technologies. 214 00:10:19,804 --> 00:10:24,154 Each one, each new evolution had a better capacity, a better throughput 215 00:10:24,514 --> 00:10:29,224 working on better quality, all those goals, but it was a competition. 216 00:10:29,434 --> 00:10:32,734 And so you'd walk into a company and they had one of each okay. 217 00:10:32,734 --> 00:10:38,494 Or 20 of each types of technology back in the day, DLT AIT, eight 218 00:10:38,494 --> 00:10:45,364 millimeter, a bunch that moved on to a group, the LTO group, and 219 00:10:45,514 --> 00:10:47,614 sort of solidified on a standard. 220 00:10:48,334 --> 00:10:52,834 Multiple manufacturers, all designing the specifications around 221 00:10:53,104 --> 00:10:58,324 the cartridge, the media, the tape drive, all those components. 222 00:10:58,684 --> 00:10:59,824 And it's a group effort. 223 00:11:00,184 --> 00:11:02,344 We do compete, but it's a group effort. 224 00:11:02,764 --> 00:11:06,424 So it allows some stability in the marketplace to continually 225 00:11:06,424 --> 00:11:07,894 bring out the next evolution. 226 00:11:08,794 --> 00:11:11,104 The next level of, of technology. 227 00:11:11,524 --> 00:11:13,174 Um, but as a group. 228 00:11:13,414 --> 00:11:13,894 Okay. 229 00:11:13,894 --> 00:11:20,884 So if someone has a preference for ABC company, they can buy it from ABC or XYZ. 230 00:11:21,124 --> 00:11:22,144 They all work together. 231 00:11:22,834 --> 00:11:29,194 Um, and nowadays the, the short answer is tape is as fast or faster than disk. 232 00:11:30,824 --> 00:11:31,774 I like saying that 233 00:11:31,939 --> 00:11:32,149 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Hmm. 234 00:11:32,704 --> 00:11:34,504 Pay Mayock: it's got a longer shelf life, meaning you can 235 00:11:34,504 --> 00:11:36,184 store data for about 30 years. 236 00:11:36,784 --> 00:11:37,854 Disk can't do that. 237 00:11:38,694 --> 00:11:44,904 It is better for the environment because you can store so much capacity of data 238 00:11:45,144 --> 00:11:52,794 in a very small space that it saves on, you know, data center, um, resources. 239 00:11:53,154 --> 00:11:53,694 Okay. 240 00:11:54,924 --> 00:11:58,494 If you could put all your data on a disc, that'd be great, but it would 241 00:11:58,494 --> 00:12:04,134 cost so much in terms of space for those systems for power, for cooling. 242 00:12:04,884 --> 00:12:06,234 And so I smiled because. 243 00:12:07,129 --> 00:12:08,989 Data is growing so fast. 244 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,909 The most cost effective way to store large amounts of data 245 00:12:13,939 --> 00:12:16,459 for long purposes is on tape. 246 00:12:16,699 --> 00:12:18,049 It's not going to go away. 247 00:12:18,859 --> 00:12:23,689 And then specifically your HPE, my brand of tape can fit in anybody's 248 00:12:23,689 --> 00:12:26,239 tape drive in anybody's tape library. 249 00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:29,989 So all these companies that are creating this content. 250 00:12:30,824 --> 00:12:33,794 I have to put that data somewhere safely. 251 00:12:34,364 --> 00:12:40,304 And it's not really an argument because you look at the actual data and say, oh, 252 00:12:40,844 --> 00:12:42,494 well, it's the cost and where to do this. 253 00:12:42,854 --> 00:12:43,874 This makes sense. 254 00:12:44,174 --> 00:12:45,404 So again, I smile a lot. 255 00:12:45,434 --> 00:12:46,904 It's a good, it's a good marketplace. 256 00:12:47,264 --> 00:12:49,604 And I never, I never used that phrase, 257 00:12:50,714 --> 00:12:54,404 you know, because it's been around forever and I just, you know, 258 00:12:54,404 --> 00:12:55,934 I, I just can't see that phrase. 259 00:12:55,934 --> 00:12:57,134 You mentioned the unknown 260 00:12:57,224 --> 00:12:57,674 reigns. 261 00:12:58,884 --> 00:12:59,154 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 262 00:12:59,184 --> 00:13:05,964 I think that when you look at tape versus disc about the only thing that 263 00:13:06,144 --> 00:13:09,744 disc is better at is random access. 264 00:13:10,284 --> 00:13:10,704 Right? 265 00:13:11,114 --> 00:13:13,244 Um, I mean, tape, it has. 266 00:13:14,674 --> 00:13:17,164 Um, uh, error rate, right? 267 00:13:17,164 --> 00:13:19,354 It has a longer storage time. 268 00:13:19,774 --> 00:13:23,914 It, uh, power, power consumption is, is vastly different. 269 00:13:24,244 --> 00:13:29,914 In fact, I remember, uh, years ago writing a thing that talked about 270 00:13:29,914 --> 00:13:35,374 the fact that even if disk were free, the tape would still be cheaper 271 00:13:35,914 --> 00:13:38,014 because of the power savings over 272 00:13:38,014 --> 00:13:38,464 time. 273 00:13:39,184 --> 00:13:39,424 Right. 274 00:13:40,299 --> 00:13:44,889 Yeah, and it's not so great at random access, right? 275 00:13:45,009 --> 00:13:47,169 Oddly enough, it can do random access. 276 00:13:47,169 --> 00:13:50,199 We have the darn it. 277 00:13:50,499 --> 00:13:50,899 LTFS. 278 00:13:52,234 --> 00:13:53,014 Pay Mayock: Oh, LTF. 279 00:13:53,499 --> 00:13:53,769 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 280 00:13:53,949 --> 00:13:58,269 So you, you can make an LTO tape look like a file system. 281 00:13:58,689 --> 00:14:02,589 It will be the slowest performing random access file system you've 282 00:14:02,589 --> 00:14:04,599 ever used, but it will work. 283 00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:08,109 Um, but I w I wouldn't use it for that. 284 00:14:08,109 --> 00:14:13,059 Like, as a, as a human interacting with that, you would not want to do that. 285 00:14:13,119 --> 00:14:13,449 Right. 286 00:14:13,449 --> 00:14:14,769 But it can do that. 287 00:14:14,869 --> 00:14:17,719 Why would someone use LTFS over. 288 00:14:18,379 --> 00:14:21,799 Just storing something on LTO tape. 289 00:14:23,774 --> 00:14:27,404 Pay Mayock: Uh, it is, as you say, a better way of organizing 290 00:14:27,404 --> 00:14:30,194 the data on physical tape, so you can get to it faster. 291 00:14:30,824 --> 00:14:34,364 And there are multiple data management software packages out 292 00:14:34,364 --> 00:14:36,344 there that take advantage of that. 293 00:14:36,734 --> 00:14:42,284 So that when you and I click on a video online somewhere, that's probably coming 294 00:14:42,284 --> 00:14:47,324 off a tape somewhere to a disc and being stationed there for multiple access. 295 00:14:47,774 --> 00:14:51,194 But it's coming off tape because they can't keep everything on disc. 296 00:14:51,584 --> 00:14:57,899 I mean, like you said, if this was free, When you look at the new, uh, 297 00:14:58,079 --> 00:15:02,399 stories of datacenters being put in by all these major corporations, a 298 00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:07,799 lot of them social media, the size of those facilities is, is unbelievable. 299 00:15:08,519 --> 00:15:11,279 If it was all disk, it would be three times bigger. 300 00:15:12,209 --> 00:15:12,629 Okay. 301 00:15:12,779 --> 00:15:14,429 Me just physical space. 302 00:15:14,999 --> 00:15:20,879 There's just a better ability to put data on tape than on disk for those reasons. 303 00:15:22,019 --> 00:15:26,369 W. Curtis Preston: Which reminds me of something that I, all that I also say 304 00:15:26,369 --> 00:15:31,529 rather frequently, which is, I think if the average person saw what the 305 00:15:31,529 --> 00:15:36,179 average build of these large social media companies were in these cloud companies. 306 00:15:36,359 --> 00:15:39,899 They would be very surprised by the amount of tape in those environments. 307 00:15:39,899 --> 00:15:40,499 Wouldn't you say? 308 00:15:40,644 --> 00:15:41,004 Pay Mayock: Right. 309 00:15:41,454 --> 00:15:41,874 Right. 310 00:15:42,984 --> 00:15:47,094 But people like my family will come up to me and say, but dad, what 311 00:15:47,094 --> 00:15:48,534 about, uh, what about the cloud? 312 00:15:48,564 --> 00:15:49,704 You're gonna lose your job! 313 00:15:50,384 --> 00:15:51,484 And the answer is. 314 00:15:51,504 --> 00:15:53,124 The cloud has a lot of tape in it. 315 00:15:53,424 --> 00:15:58,704 They're our best customers, because for cost reasons, they can't keep 316 00:15:58,704 --> 00:16:02,784 all of your documentation, all of your images and all that on disc. 317 00:16:02,874 --> 00:16:05,104 They're trying to be businesspeople. 318 00:16:05,664 --> 00:16:11,244 And they look at the scale and the speeds and yeah, there's a, there's a lot of 319 00:16:11,244 --> 00:16:13,644 room for growth in the, in the LTO market. 320 00:16:13,734 --> 00:16:15,264 Uh, and the tape market definitely. 321 00:16:15,889 --> 00:16:17,179 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It's an interesting point. 322 00:16:17,179 --> 00:16:22,039 You made Pat, which I hadn't, I, it should have dawned on me, but it wasn't obvious 323 00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:25,429 is your video streaming example, right. 324 00:16:25,459 --> 00:16:28,429 Where people are accessing video on demand or whatever else. 325 00:16:28,429 --> 00:16:31,669 And the companies themselves are storing it on tape. 326 00:16:31,669 --> 00:16:34,369 Like that never came across to me as, yeah. 327 00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:36,889 That is probably the most likely method that they're doing. 328 00:16:36,889 --> 00:16:38,509 Just like you said, for cost reasons. 329 00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:42,939 I'm sure there is, like, you mentioned like buffering and other things to make 330 00:16:42,939 --> 00:16:47,649 sure that it performs well once the first copies read, but yeah, keeping that stuff 331 00:16:47,679 --> 00:16:50,299 on tape probably makes the most sense. 332 00:16:51,259 --> 00:16:53,889 Pay Mayock: If you look at, and there's multiple stories, uh, in 333 00:16:53,889 --> 00:16:57,009 the market, one in areas, you know, media, entertainment and sports. 334 00:16:58,314 --> 00:17:01,464 of those games and that kind of a smile, all those games you're being 335 00:17:01,464 --> 00:17:05,544 recorded, multiple angles, and they're being kept for five, 10 years. 336 00:17:06,024 --> 00:17:13,404 So that a, a news, uh, sports center can say, well, let's get a recap of all the 337 00:17:13,404 --> 00:17:16,077 games that, that Bob Smith played in. 338 00:17:16,144 --> 00:17:19,679 They ask the question, it goes out, it goes onto the tape libraries 339 00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:20,789 to access all the information. 340 00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:25,319 They need, load up the tapes, download whatever copies they need and boom, 341 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:31,019 they have a full story of all that data and they just can't do it. 342 00:17:31,649 --> 00:17:35,289 I shouldn't say can't, but you can't do it physically on disk 343 00:17:35,309 --> 00:17:39,839 because of the comparison and capacities and power and cooling. 344 00:17:41,644 --> 00:17:42,004 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 345 00:17:42,034 --> 00:17:48,994 I I'd say the other, you know, earlier I said the, the, the, uh, the one 346 00:17:48,994 --> 00:17:52,324 thing that disk could do better, the other thing disc can do better, which 347 00:17:52,324 --> 00:17:57,124 I, which I probably should've also mentioned is the ability to go any speed. 348 00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:58,359 Right. 349 00:17:58,449 --> 00:18:04,929 Um, which, which really became, I think the primary problem that tape 350 00:18:04,929 --> 00:18:07,209 experienced in the backup space, right. 351 00:18:07,209 --> 00:18:08,829 It certainly was for me. 352 00:18:09,339 --> 00:18:15,369 And it's why, why we started using things like multiplexing, which is, um, you 353 00:18:15,369 --> 00:18:18,939 know, it's, it, it was a necessary evil. 354 00:18:19,629 --> 00:18:24,019 Um, and you know, we, we, we had, um, a Ricky Martin from NetApp 355 00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:25,369 that was talking about that. 356 00:18:25,369 --> 00:18:29,629 And he was just talking about, he just referred to it as just evil. 357 00:18:29,659 --> 00:18:29,869 Right. 358 00:18:29,899 --> 00:18:34,159 You just see I'm like, well, it's a necessary evil back in the day because 359 00:18:34,159 --> 00:18:36,329 tape was not good at going slow. 360 00:18:36,329 --> 00:18:40,639 It, I don't think it's got any better at going slow these days than it was before. 361 00:18:41,764 --> 00:18:48,394 And so that's why it became problematic in backup and recovery. 362 00:18:48,544 --> 00:18:55,354 And we used multiplexing for a while to sort of create, I dunno, a buffer zone 363 00:18:55,354 --> 00:19:00,274 there, if you will, but it was such a bad thing in that it made backups. 364 00:19:00,274 --> 00:19:00,694 Okay. 365 00:19:00,694 --> 00:19:02,104 But it made restores worse. 366 00:19:02,134 --> 00:19:07,984 But that's why I think tape really went down, uh, in the backup space. 367 00:19:08,194 --> 00:19:12,364 But what has happened is what you're talking about is tape being used in the 368 00:19:12,364 --> 00:19:15,154 primary and secondary storage spaces. 369 00:19:15,454 --> 00:19:17,434 Not as much in the backup space. 370 00:19:18,064 --> 00:19:18,694 Um, 371 00:19:19,464 --> 00:19:24,624 Pay Mayock: So even on the team that I work with, we do argue, we talk 372 00:19:24,624 --> 00:19:28,364 about new marketing ideas and what we should be focusing and some say. 373 00:19:28,784 --> 00:19:31,184 Uh, it's all about backup and data protection. 374 00:19:31,904 --> 00:19:34,574 Um, and then others say, no, no, no, it's all about archive. 375 00:19:34,664 --> 00:19:35,054 Okay. 376 00:19:35,414 --> 00:19:36,704 There was what are our strengths? 377 00:19:37,244 --> 00:19:40,874 Um, and again, you can store on flash. 378 00:19:40,874 --> 00:19:43,964 You can store on disc, you can store on tape, you got choices. 379 00:19:44,954 --> 00:19:50,414 Um, but on the backup side, you know, for all the current, uh, newsworthy 380 00:19:50,444 --> 00:19:56,084 issues we're having with ransomware, the idea to copy all your data. 381 00:19:57,644 --> 00:19:59,804 then take that copy and take it off the network. 382 00:20:00,284 --> 00:20:05,564 They talk about offline air gap, um, and it's easy to do with tape. 383 00:20:05,804 --> 00:20:09,734 So it's a copy, but once it's put onto the tape moves onto 384 00:20:09,734 --> 00:20:12,734 the, into the slot, it's offline. 385 00:20:13,064 --> 00:20:18,074 If they break into your network, it's pretty hard to get to the content on tape. 386 00:20:18,477 --> 00:20:21,327 it's hard to get to the content on tape because it's not on-line. 387 00:20:22,132 --> 00:20:24,232 And then you make two copies and one goes off site. 388 00:20:24,892 --> 00:20:30,262 So for backup, that's just a, a huge boom, hate to say it for tape 389 00:20:30,262 --> 00:20:31,612 because of those two features. 390 00:20:32,002 --> 00:20:33,952 Get it offline and get it off site. 391 00:20:34,252 --> 00:20:35,002 It's easy. 392 00:20:36,292 --> 00:20:38,842 The bigger one, as you said is for archive. 393 00:20:39,272 --> 00:20:41,512 I shouldn't say bigger, but the other one is for archive 394 00:20:41,512 --> 00:20:43,522 because there's so much content. 395 00:20:43,732 --> 00:20:50,332 I saw a note today, uh, from, uh, IDC talking about 40% growth. 396 00:20:51,267 --> 00:20:53,067 Across all companies per year, 397 00:20:53,737 --> 00:20:53,797 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 398 00:20:54,117 --> 00:20:55,707 Pay Mayock: so per year. 399 00:20:56,157 --> 00:21:02,037 So that data that you created a year ago, you're required to keep it maybe 400 00:21:02,037 --> 00:21:07,077 has value for engineering purposes or for legal reasons or for content, 401 00:21:08,127 --> 00:21:12,087 but you want to get it off your high powered high-performance disc systems 402 00:21:12,927 --> 00:21:15,627 and get it off site and get it offline. 403 00:21:15,837 --> 00:21:17,787 And then when you need it, you can get to it. 404 00:21:19,792 --> 00:21:22,222 W. Curtis Preston: We've had a couple of guests on the podcast that have talked 405 00:21:22,222 --> 00:21:27,392 about, they're basically exactly what you're saying, that, that it's hard to 406 00:21:27,392 --> 00:21:30,862 beat a tape when it comes to ransomware. 407 00:21:30,922 --> 00:21:31,282 Right. 408 00:21:31,312 --> 00:21:36,142 That it's all it's, it's purely offline, right? 409 00:21:36,182 --> 00:21:37,492 Completely offline. 410 00:21:37,542 --> 00:21:42,122 Pay Mayock: If I could jump in, one concept of tape is to make a copy and send 411 00:21:42,122 --> 00:21:44,012 it off to someplace like iron mountain. 412 00:21:44,432 --> 00:21:45,122 That's great. 413 00:21:45,962 --> 00:21:49,502 There's some issues regarding your recovery time, your cost 414 00:21:49,502 --> 00:21:53,462 to keep it there, et cetera, but it is a great fail safe because. 415 00:21:54,362 --> 00:21:57,602 Iron mountain and other companies like that have very secure environments. 416 00:21:57,842 --> 00:21:59,672 In some cases, they're actually under a mountain. 417 00:22:00,632 --> 00:22:03,962 And so your data, if it's critical for you for a 10 year 418 00:22:03,962 --> 00:22:05,672 storage of data, that's awesome. 419 00:22:06,032 --> 00:22:06,932 Very well protected. 420 00:22:07,682 --> 00:22:12,302 Another blend is to have onsite data on your own tape library system. 421 00:22:12,932 --> 00:22:17,282 And then a second copy either in the cloud or at a second facility. 422 00:22:18,077 --> 00:22:21,197 That is, has a duplicate system set up. 423 00:22:21,947 --> 00:22:27,047 And so when you talk about disaster recovery, it's not just ransomware, 424 00:22:27,047 --> 00:22:32,177 it could be an actual natural, uh, effect on your own building, 425 00:22:32,687 --> 00:22:34,247 you know, hurricanes, et cetera. 426 00:22:34,547 --> 00:22:39,497 So again, you have local access if it's an attack, uh, but you have a 427 00:22:39,497 --> 00:22:43,397 second site so that if you lose your facility, for whatever reason, you've 428 00:22:43,397 --> 00:22:45,047 got all your data somewhere else. 429 00:22:47,337 --> 00:22:51,567 W. Curtis Preston: I like to use things like for what they're really good at. 430 00:22:51,657 --> 00:22:57,057 And I do think that tape is really good at this at holding, you know, large 431 00:22:57,057 --> 00:23:04,167 amounts of data for long periods of time, and also being able to cheaply create 432 00:23:04,167 --> 00:23:07,647 another copy that I can store wherever. 433 00:23:07,647 --> 00:23:07,977 Right. 434 00:23:08,007 --> 00:23:10,647 Um, so I, and there are technologies. 435 00:23:11,462 --> 00:23:17,072 To have two tape libraries replicating between each other. 436 00:23:17,072 --> 00:23:17,342 Right. 437 00:23:17,342 --> 00:23:21,062 So that we don't have to continually be shipping tapes back and forth. 438 00:23:22,172 --> 00:23:29,087 Um, And, and that's why I think when I go to, it's been, it's been a couple of 439 00:23:29,087 --> 00:23:34,217 years for, for obvious reasons since I've been to NAB and I didn't go this time. 440 00:23:34,607 --> 00:23:38,147 I was, I was a little busy, but NAB was just last week. 441 00:23:38,177 --> 00:23:41,357 The national association of broadcasters, for those of you that don't follow that. 442 00:23:42,242 --> 00:23:47,642 And there's a huge interest in tape, in the broadcast space. 443 00:23:48,032 --> 00:23:49,882 For exactly what you're talking about. 444 00:23:49,882 --> 00:23:52,952 The broadcast and entertainment spaces. 445 00:23:53,882 --> 00:24:00,482 They create a ridiculous amount of data very quickly, and then they 446 00:24:00,482 --> 00:24:01,712 want to store all of it forever. 447 00:24:02,287 --> 00:24:02,497 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 448 00:24:02,887 --> 00:24:03,127 Just 449 00:24:03,127 --> 00:24:06,367 imagine the Olympics and taking like eight K video. 450 00:24:06,727 --> 00:24:07,177 Right. 451 00:24:07,237 --> 00:24:12,307 And that's an enormous amount of data for how many weeks, and now you want to 452 00:24:12,307 --> 00:24:15,217 store it because in like four years or whatever else, you're going to want to 453 00:24:15,217 --> 00:24:16,567 be able to pull up those clips again. 454 00:24:17,207 --> 00:24:18,277 Are you going to store it all on disc? 455 00:24:18,307 --> 00:24:18,997 Probably not. 456 00:24:21,392 --> 00:24:22,232 Pay Mayock: Probably not. 457 00:24:23,587 --> 00:24:26,917 W. Curtis Preston: So, uh, but let's take it, but let's take a turn. 458 00:24:26,917 --> 00:24:28,687 So we talked about tape for awhile. 459 00:24:29,077 --> 00:24:35,557 You have another technology, which is not tape, which, um, I, I ha 460 00:24:35,587 --> 00:24:37,827 I don't see a lot about lately. 461 00:24:38,252 --> 00:24:43,592 In fact, I actually thought it had, I apologize, but I thought 462 00:24:43,592 --> 00:24:44,972 it had gone by the wayside. 463 00:24:45,302 --> 00:24:51,002 And when I saw that in your bio, I said, Hey, we've got to get 464 00:24:51,212 --> 00:24:54,302 Pat on to talk to us about RDX. 465 00:24:54,752 --> 00:24:58,622 So first off, why don't you describe what RDX is. 466 00:24:59,082 --> 00:24:59,562 Pay Mayock: Sure. 467 00:24:59,752 --> 00:25:01,387 I'm looking around the room here. 468 00:25:02,682 --> 00:25:04,302 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It's not the car by the way. 469 00:25:05,497 --> 00:25:06,127 Pay Mayock: Pardon me? 470 00:25:06,522 --> 00:25:08,292 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It's not the car, right? 471 00:25:08,292 --> 00:25:09,582 It's not the acura rDX. 472 00:25:09,612 --> 00:25:10,062 Exactly. 473 00:25:10,197 --> 00:25:10,647 Pay Mayock: No. 474 00:25:10,677 --> 00:25:11,037 No. 475 00:25:11,157 --> 00:25:13,617 So, so you mentioned Boulder. 476 00:25:13,917 --> 00:25:19,797 I believe the company was called pro store developed a technology in Boulder for RDX, 477 00:25:20,367 --> 00:25:24,297 and they developed it for awhile and then sold the rights to multiple companies. 478 00:25:24,657 --> 00:25:30,267 Um, like, like Tandberg, for instance, uh, Tandberg Overland, and it's, it's used 479 00:25:30,267 --> 00:25:35,487 by Dell, HPE and other companies today. 480 00:25:36,537 --> 00:25:39,717 Um, to put out in the marketplace, in a nutshell, it 481 00:25:39,717 --> 00:25:41,427 is a disc drive and a cartridge. 482 00:25:41,457 --> 00:25:45,447 So it looks similar to this, but it's actually a disc drive and it 483 00:25:45,447 --> 00:25:50,907 has a small docking station, usually USB attached and same concept. 484 00:25:51,177 --> 00:25:52,527 I want a copy of my data. 485 00:25:53,457 --> 00:25:56,757 I want to be able to eject it and then throw it into a safe, or take 486 00:25:56,757 --> 00:26:01,197 it off site to a secure facility or send it securely to somebody else 487 00:26:01,197 --> 00:26:03,087 and have them load it for themselves. 488 00:26:04,227 --> 00:26:09,927 So it's disc in a cartridge, um, been around for, oh gosh, I'm getting old, 489 00:26:10,287 --> 00:26:15,447 more than 15 years, uh, is still quite popular in some of the workstations 490 00:26:15,447 --> 00:26:22,227 that are put out by HP and HPE, uh, like the ProLiant, um, where someone has a 491 00:26:22,227 --> 00:26:23,967 series of disks and all their content. 492 00:26:24,267 --> 00:26:27,687 And as an engineer, they say, or a creative person, they say, give 493 00:26:27,687 --> 00:26:29,607 me a copy and I want it on disc. 494 00:26:30,057 --> 00:26:30,537 Okay. 495 00:26:30,717 --> 00:26:32,027 So they just pop it up. 496 00:26:32,997 --> 00:26:37,167 And again, this portable, et cetera, same kinds of, uh, or similar 497 00:26:37,167 --> 00:26:42,047 advantages to tape, uh, what I do with both, you know, if I get to an 498 00:26:42,047 --> 00:26:48,577 a stage, I just throw them because the RDX disk cartridge is designed 499 00:26:48,597 --> 00:26:50,967 to take an impact of like three feet. 500 00:26:51,147 --> 00:26:52,317 And I usually just throw it though. 501 00:26:53,007 --> 00:26:58,157 Um, so it's a different level than say a standard USB, uh, external drive. 502 00:26:58,787 --> 00:27:03,432 Uh, it's designed for somebody who's moving a lot of data off an on disk. 503 00:27:03,852 --> 00:27:04,302 Okay. 504 00:27:04,842 --> 00:27:12,942 Um, one example I thought of as the, uh, uh, law enforcement offices evolved 505 00:27:12,942 --> 00:27:19,302 into body cams and, uh, surveillance cameras, um, and cameras mounted 506 00:27:19,302 --> 00:27:25,302 on, on the police cars, a normal it environment had to jump a factor of 10. 507 00:27:26,427 --> 00:27:32,517 Like a factor of 10 to maintain all that data and you can do it with USB drives. 508 00:27:32,754 --> 00:27:35,934 Uh, but you can also do with a more secure product called RDX. 509 00:27:36,035 --> 00:27:41,165 W. Curtis Preston: So it, it's bringing some of the functionality 510 00:27:41,165 --> 00:27:46,965 of tape to desk, if you will, or it's basically making, making tape. 511 00:27:47,675 --> 00:27:52,465 Look like disk, what does it actually look like when you, when you put a cartridge 512 00:27:52,475 --> 00:27:54,695 in, does it show up as a drive letter or. 513 00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:55,170 Pay Mayock: Yep. 514 00:27:55,230 --> 00:27:55,440 Sure. 515 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,370 It looks like a disc drive. 516 00:27:56,430 --> 00:27:57,420 It is a disc drive. 517 00:27:57,780 --> 00:27:57,990 Okay. 518 00:27:57,990 --> 00:28:01,830 So, and for some people, again, depending on your environment, um, 519 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,590 retail businesses, they can use tape. 520 00:28:04,620 --> 00:28:06,900 And a lot of times they used to use the four millimeter dat. 521 00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:07,890 Okay. 522 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:12,570 As their daily backup for all their, uh, uh, POS environment. 523 00:28:13,905 --> 00:28:15,285 And that worked just fine. 524 00:28:15,315 --> 00:28:19,545 The technology went away and so they were asking, well, what else is there? 525 00:28:19,995 --> 00:28:24,345 A disk in a cartridge is very easy for each individual retail store. 526 00:28:24,585 --> 00:28:27,825 And imagine all those stores out there to just each act, it 527 00:28:27,825 --> 00:28:29,175 toss it in the safe every night. 528 00:28:29,625 --> 00:28:33,855 It's a very secure way of keeping a copy of all those transactions. 529 00:28:34,455 --> 00:28:38,775 Um, and again, every customer says tape or disk, you know, 530 00:28:38,775 --> 00:28:40,035 what, what makes sense for me? 531 00:28:40,185 --> 00:28:40,935 We all have a preference. 532 00:28:42,930 --> 00:28:49,500 uh, at some point the capacity benefits of tape, they can get cheap for storing data 533 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:57,030 outweigh the capacity and the cost for RDX, but for one terabyte to five terabyte 534 00:28:57,030 --> 00:29:00,090 environments, it has a great play. 535 00:29:01,205 --> 00:29:02,405 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Is there a reason though? 536 00:29:02,415 --> 00:29:07,415 Someone wouldn't just use like an external portable hard drive or 537 00:29:07,475 --> 00:29:08,675 another mechanism like 538 00:29:08,675 --> 00:29:09,035 that 539 00:29:09,795 --> 00:29:11,325 Pay Mayock: So, do you have one of those at 540 00:29:11,325 --> 00:29:11,745 home? 541 00:29:12,525 --> 00:29:13,305 You must have one. 542 00:29:13,605 --> 00:29:15,885 Yeah, so I do too. 543 00:29:15,945 --> 00:29:16,155 Okay. 544 00:29:16,155 --> 00:29:22,365 So I back up my stuff, I do a, a USB drive if I was doing that and 545 00:29:22,365 --> 00:29:24,045 unplugging it every single day. 546 00:29:24,465 --> 00:29:24,915 Okay. 547 00:29:25,245 --> 00:29:27,315 At some point that's not what it's designed for. 548 00:29:28,035 --> 00:29:28,545 Okay. 549 00:29:28,725 --> 00:29:30,915 Just the mere fact of plugging it in and plugging it out. 550 00:29:30,915 --> 00:29:34,245 That USB, if it's always plugged in or plugged in once 551 00:29:34,245 --> 00:29:35,475 a month and you do your backup. 552 00:29:36,395 --> 00:29:36,815 Prasanna Malaiyandi: that's fine. 553 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,620 Pay Mayock: But individuals who are going through five 10 of 554 00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:45,550 these external drives and plugging them in for different reasons. 555 00:29:46,090 --> 00:29:51,250 It makes more sense to have a docking stations that is designed for anti-static. 556 00:29:52,270 --> 00:29:55,360 Um, human beings just shoving it in. 557 00:29:55,390 --> 00:29:56,050 Okay. 558 00:29:56,260 --> 00:30:02,020 And all the security you need for that kind of multiple volumes being 559 00:30:02,020 --> 00:30:04,510 stored on multiple cartridges. 560 00:30:04,905 --> 00:30:05,355 Okay. 561 00:30:05,685 --> 00:30:09,195 And it's all plugged in once, either internal or external. 562 00:30:09,525 --> 00:30:10,935 So it's just a different level. 563 00:30:11,175 --> 00:30:11,835 Um, 564 00:30:13,815 --> 00:30:16,595 W. Curtis Preston: By the way, your earlier comment, it 565 00:30:16,595 --> 00:30:18,585 gave me multiple flashbacks. 566 00:30:18,585 --> 00:30:23,265 I just wanted to tell you that, uh, when, when you mentioned retail and you 567 00:30:23,265 --> 00:30:30,575 mentioned DAT drives because, uh, I cut my teeth, uh, like the, the most popular 568 00:30:30,575 --> 00:30:35,645 tape drive that I spent a lot of my time in, early at Deezer HP nine thousands. 569 00:30:35,675 --> 00:30:40,555 I don't know if you remember the HB 9,000 series, but, um, I had, I had 570 00:30:41,075 --> 00:30:45,695 an army of those on my data center and we had the DDS one and the DDS 571 00:30:45,695 --> 00:30:50,075 two drives and, uh, those things. 572 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:54,330 Just a big thing with them was to not drop them. 573 00:30:55,290 --> 00:30:59,310 Cause they were, they were good tape dries, but if you drop that tape 574 00:30:59,340 --> 00:31:04,550 from a height of like, you know me, that it would go shattering, right? 575 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,330 The, the, the door would go shattering. 576 00:31:06,330 --> 00:31:10,560 And, uh, I actually got, I actually developed skills 577 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:11,970 of being able to reassemble. 578 00:31:13,145 --> 00:31:18,005 The door, like to take a, to cannibalize another tape and take 579 00:31:18,005 --> 00:31:20,705 the little door off and putting it onto a tape that I needed it 580 00:31:20,705 --> 00:31:20,885 on. 581 00:31:21,975 --> 00:31:24,555 Pay Mayock: Yeah, I guess that's why the tape evolved. 582 00:31:26,615 --> 00:31:31,565 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I, well, cause LTO is, is by comparison or by contrast 583 00:31:31,985 --> 00:31:37,415 is much more, uh, You know, rigid, right? 584 00:31:37,475 --> 00:31:43,025 Uh, it handles and later generations of LTO are more rigid than earlier. 585 00:31:43,025 --> 00:31:44,255 Generations of LTO. 586 00:31:44,825 --> 00:31:48,545 In fact, I, I have this information from a very different 587 00:31:48,545 --> 00:31:49,925 standpoint than most people. 588 00:31:50,255 --> 00:31:55,625 I actually was making a music video where, um, we shattered. 589 00:31:56,510 --> 00:31:59,690 Tapes against, there was just one shot that I wanted and 590 00:31:59,690 --> 00:32:01,610 we did it in slow motion. 591 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,340 And, uh, we wanted to shatter an LTO tape against the wall and we wanted 592 00:32:07,340 --> 00:32:09,290 it to hit the wall and then explode. 593 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:09,710 Right. 594 00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:12,710 And it turned out it was impossible to make that shot. 595 00:32:12,770 --> 00:32:14,720 And they only, because it wouldn't do it. 596 00:32:15,230 --> 00:32:17,600 And, uh, no matter how hard we throw it. 597 00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:21,050 And so what I ended up having to do was to disassemble the 598 00:32:21,050 --> 00:32:22,580 cartridge, check out all the screws. 599 00:32:23,405 --> 00:32:23,855 Right. 600 00:32:24,155 --> 00:32:30,275 And then tape it together, put, put scotch tape on the outside so that, so 601 00:32:30,275 --> 00:32:33,575 that, uh, when we throw it against the wall, it would, uh, so like I said, it's 602 00:32:33,575 --> 00:32:38,165 a very different, the average person has not tried to destroy, uh, uh, uh, a tape 603 00:32:38,195 --> 00:32:41,375 for, um, you know, for a music video. 604 00:32:42,155 --> 00:32:49,277 So what, what, so the, the use of RDX that you talked about, I heard 605 00:32:49,277 --> 00:32:50,867 you talk about retail environments. 606 00:32:51,107 --> 00:32:53,507 What are other places that people are using them? 607 00:32:53,527 --> 00:32:55,937 What are other things that people are using them for? 608 00:32:57,947 --> 00:33:00,767 Pay Mayock: I hate to limit it because it really comes down to, you 609 00:33:00,767 --> 00:33:01,907 know, what are your requirements. 610 00:33:01,997 --> 00:33:03,527 But I'll try, I'll start with that. 611 00:33:03,857 --> 00:33:06,137 If you're an environment where you're working on. 612 00:33:07,122 --> 00:33:09,702 One terabyte to say five terabytes of data. 613 00:33:09,972 --> 00:33:10,362 Okay. 614 00:33:10,722 --> 00:33:13,332 On a regular basis, you need a backup. 615 00:33:13,402 --> 00:33:14,442 You need something rugged. 616 00:33:14,742 --> 00:33:19,032 Um, RDX might be used for, you know, laptop environment where 617 00:33:19,032 --> 00:33:25,602 scientists are going out into the field and analyzing, uh, uh, the 618 00:33:25,602 --> 00:33:30,312 data from either Marine or geological information and they need something. 619 00:33:30,312 --> 00:33:31,632 They can back up their laptop. 620 00:33:32,577 --> 00:33:35,397 And then putting their, their briefcase and come back when the 621 00:33:35,397 --> 00:33:37,287 field and have the data secure. 622 00:33:37,557 --> 00:33:38,127 Okay. 623 00:33:38,517 --> 00:33:45,417 It's used on, I've seen applications in oil exploration vessels, and 624 00:33:45,417 --> 00:33:49,527 that's an amazing technology where they go out and they troll with all 625 00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:53,937 these sensors and gather all this data from the ground under the water. 626 00:33:55,547 --> 00:33:58,007 It's so much data, but they're on a ship. 627 00:33:58,687 --> 00:34:02,592 And so once they collect it, they want to be able to securely, put it on something. 628 00:34:03,102 --> 00:34:08,172 And the it person says I need all LTO, the appar it person says, 629 00:34:08,232 --> 00:34:10,602 I need all RDX again, a choice. 630 00:34:10,632 --> 00:34:11,052 Okay. 631 00:34:11,502 --> 00:34:14,652 Uh, for what they see is more beneficial for their environment. 632 00:34:15,102 --> 00:34:18,222 So there's some big scale type applications. 633 00:34:18,732 --> 00:34:22,182 Uh, but the smallest scale is someone who is a content creator at home. 634 00:34:22,977 --> 00:34:27,897 And you walk in their office and they've got multiple USB drives at different 635 00:34:27,897 --> 00:34:32,907 sizes, and they've knocked some off the table and they've lost content there. 636 00:34:33,537 --> 00:34:39,027 They need to hear about RDX and I'll admit it's not a well talked about product. 637 00:34:39,357 --> 00:34:41,637 Um, but it has a great application. 638 00:34:43,502 --> 00:34:45,302 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I was even thinking, as you're talking about the 639 00:34:45,302 --> 00:34:49,442 content creators, even probably people photographers, videographers, right? 640 00:34:49,442 --> 00:34:52,442 The people in the field taking 4k video and things like that. 641 00:34:53,162 --> 00:34:53,462 Right. 642 00:34:53,492 --> 00:34:57,362 For the most part, I think they end up just throwing them onto SSD drives. 643 00:34:57,762 --> 00:34:58,032 Right. 644 00:34:58,032 --> 00:35:00,252 Portable hard drives, but like you mentioned, right. 645 00:35:00,252 --> 00:35:02,172 They're not always the most robust right. 646 00:35:02,172 --> 00:35:04,962 In all situations and things like that. 647 00:35:04,962 --> 00:35:08,562 And so maybe that could potentially be another use case as 648 00:35:08,677 --> 00:35:09,067 Pay Mayock: Exactly. 649 00:35:10,617 --> 00:35:11,847 W. Curtis Preston: I would assume. 650 00:35:11,907 --> 00:35:19,277 Well, I I'm, I I'm going to assume, but you can verify or, or, or disagree the, 651 00:35:19,277 --> 00:35:26,127 the, the bay, the docking station, it's less expensive than an LTO tape drive. 652 00:35:26,127 --> 00:35:26,857 I'm assuming. 653 00:35:27,927 --> 00:35:32,267 . Pay Mayock: So you think about RDX and RDX as a removable cartridge 654 00:35:32,297 --> 00:35:33,467 that has a disc drive in it. 655 00:35:34,817 --> 00:35:40,187 I guess the key thing to think about is that majority of the 656 00:35:40,187 --> 00:35:42,077 technology is here in the cartridge. 657 00:35:42,347 --> 00:35:42,797 Okay. 658 00:35:43,217 --> 00:35:48,697 It's a disk drive in a very well-designed case that has some anti-static issues. 659 00:35:49,067 --> 00:35:53,447 Um, allows you to plug it in and plug it out multiple times without destroying 660 00:35:53,447 --> 00:35:57,107 any connectors and the docking station. 661 00:35:57,467 --> 00:35:58,007 Okay. 662 00:35:58,547 --> 00:36:00,797 To be blunt, it's pretty low technology. 663 00:36:01,037 --> 00:36:01,487 Okay. 664 00:36:01,577 --> 00:36:04,637 It's got the cord going into the system and it might be internal. 665 00:36:05,267 --> 00:36:09,167 Um, but it's very low cost. 666 00:36:09,827 --> 00:36:14,477 So as we evolve through technology and someone said, I've got my 667 00:36:14,477 --> 00:36:17,737 four millimeter dat technology backing up my office environment. 668 00:36:18,242 --> 00:36:22,022 And I can't find L a DAT tapes anymore. 669 00:36:22,172 --> 00:36:26,402 I can't find 4 mm tapes anymore and there, and they search and they pay a 670 00:36:26,402 --> 00:36:29,882 lot of money for those tapes because they don't want to change their system. 671 00:36:31,142 --> 00:36:34,322 One of the first issues they worry about going to the next level of tape 672 00:36:34,322 --> 00:36:42,512 technology is that it might be over $500 over a thousand dollars over 673 00:36:42,512 --> 00:36:46,912 $3,000 for a brand new LTO tape drive. 674 00:36:47,742 --> 00:36:48,052 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 675 00:36:48,837 --> 00:36:54,057 Pay Mayock: Without getting in trouble, a docking station under $250. 676 00:36:54,977 --> 00:36:57,377 And they transition to this technology. 677 00:36:57,647 --> 00:37:02,747 And in that environment, that cost to change technology is quite low. 678 00:37:03,437 --> 00:37:06,587 And then they have, you know, the current disc drive in a 679 00:37:06,587 --> 00:37:08,567 cartridge meets their needs. 680 00:37:10,522 --> 00:37:14,242 W. Curtis Preston: So it sounds like the, the docking station is less expensive. 681 00:37:14,662 --> 00:37:18,702 The quick look, I, the quick search that I did, it shows that the 682 00:37:18,742 --> 00:37:21,042 media is more expensive than LTO. 683 00:37:21,462 --> 00:37:25,962 Which makes sense, given all of the, the technology that's in there, just 684 00:37:25,962 --> 00:37:27,292 like, you know what you talked about. 685 00:37:27,982 --> 00:37:28,492 Pay Mayock: Right. 686 00:37:29,317 --> 00:37:32,827 W. Curtis Preston: that is something that a potential customer needs to weigh out. 687 00:37:32,827 --> 00:37:33,187 Right. 688 00:37:33,247 --> 00:37:38,857 Um, in terms of, do I want a more expensive tape drive that will have, uh, 689 00:37:38,917 --> 00:37:42,667 you know, less expensive media, it depends on how many of those you're buying. 690 00:37:43,117 --> 00:37:43,507 Right. 691 00:37:43,567 --> 00:37:46,837 And, and like you said, if, if, if you need, cause it was like, 692 00:37:46,867 --> 00:37:51,037 it was around 500 bucks for, uh, for a five terabyte cartridge 693 00:37:51,457 --> 00:37:53,137 that I, at least my quick search. 694 00:37:53,437 --> 00:37:57,662 Whereas something like that with LTO is, is a hundred bucks or less, right? 695 00:37:58,082 --> 00:38:02,162 So it just going to different different people are going 696 00:38:02,162 --> 00:38:04,022 to find both of those useful. 697 00:38:04,022 --> 00:38:04,502 I would think. 698 00:38:05,152 --> 00:38:09,532 Pay Mayock: Exactly and that, and that is again, the customer makes the decision 699 00:38:09,532 --> 00:38:14,722 based on what their data is, uh, what their concept is about disk or tape. 700 00:38:15,172 --> 00:38:20,822 Um, and then, like you said, the docking stations for RDX is very low cost to step 701 00:38:20,822 --> 00:38:23,912 into, um, as opposed to a tape drive. 702 00:38:24,682 --> 00:38:24,802 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 703 00:38:25,162 --> 00:38:29,882 The one question I had for you Pat, was I know we talked earlier about LTFS 704 00:38:29,902 --> 00:38:35,152 and giving you sort of random access for data that's stored on LTO tapes. 705 00:38:35,672 --> 00:38:38,562 I'm guessing with RDX because it is disc, right? 706 00:38:38,562 --> 00:38:39,722 Your random access performance. 707 00:38:39,722 --> 00:38:43,892 Everything else would be significantly better than tape. 708 00:38:45,022 --> 00:38:45,112 Pay Mayock: Right. 709 00:38:45,112 --> 00:38:48,462 In my mind, if I was a content creator and I have a drone, 710 00:38:48,492 --> 00:38:49,722 by the way, I love my drone. 711 00:38:50,652 --> 00:38:51,702 I've got a lot of grandkids. 712 00:38:51,702 --> 00:38:54,022 I love chasing around the house, you know, or outside. 713 00:38:55,052 --> 00:39:00,362 All that content I can put on an RDX and load it and access it and use 714 00:39:00,362 --> 00:39:03,572 it and play with it and then take it out, put it back on the shelf. 715 00:39:04,052 --> 00:39:06,572 And let's just call that summertime 2022. 716 00:39:06,992 --> 00:39:07,352 Okay. 717 00:39:08,282 --> 00:39:12,182 Um, with tape, I wouldn't be able to do that quite as easy. 718 00:39:12,182 --> 00:39:15,782 I would take the content out, download it when I want to play 719 00:39:15,782 --> 00:39:17,342 with it and then put it back on. 720 00:39:17,732 --> 00:39:24,737 So for different environments, It's an advantage to have a, a disc based system. 721 00:39:25,127 --> 00:39:25,547 Okay. 722 00:39:26,137 --> 00:39:28,157 As opposed to a tape based system. 723 00:39:28,937 --> 00:39:29,537 That's all 724 00:39:31,562 --> 00:39:32,072 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Makes sense. 725 00:39:32,072 --> 00:39:34,502 Like Curtis was saying, I think the different use cases, right. 726 00:39:34,502 --> 00:39:36,092 You have to look and see, what is your use case? 727 00:39:36,092 --> 00:39:36,962 What are your requirements? 728 00:39:36,962 --> 00:39:38,302 And based on that you have options. 729 00:39:38,682 --> 00:39:39,042 Pay Mayock: Right. 730 00:39:39,837 --> 00:39:45,692 And again, in talking to sales teams and they asked the question, great question. 731 00:39:45,692 --> 00:39:48,512 Where does RDX fit and where does LTO tape fit? 732 00:39:49,532 --> 00:39:54,962 Usually the customer has already made that decision, but, but the real opportunity 733 00:39:55,232 --> 00:39:58,592 is when you find somebody, like I mentioned, like a Sheriff's department, 734 00:39:59,212 --> 00:40:03,062 that's buying 10 I'll call them raw. 735 00:40:03,472 --> 00:40:05,542 USB disc. 736 00:40:06,742 --> 00:40:09,832 And somebody is responsible to collect all the data off all that 737 00:40:09,832 --> 00:40:15,232 incoming video, track it for legal reasons, deliver it to a courthouse. 738 00:40:16,192 --> 00:40:20,812 And there maybe buying, you know, 10 disc drives, hard disc drives at a time. 739 00:40:22,372 --> 00:40:27,892 That person I think, would love to have something more secure like this. 740 00:40:28,162 --> 00:40:28,642 Okay. 741 00:40:28,942 --> 00:40:34,042 Because the the volume of media that they're actually 742 00:40:34,042 --> 00:40:35,202 handling, plugging and plugging. 743 00:40:35,932 --> 00:40:37,072 This solves that problem. 744 00:40:37,492 --> 00:40:37,872 Okay. 745 00:40:37,932 --> 00:40:43,132 It's more secure if you drop both of them, this type of cartridge is more secure 746 00:40:43,132 --> 00:40:47,302 than your standard, uh, retail USB drive. 747 00:40:49,757 --> 00:40:54,647 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So Pat, would it make sense for a home user to use RDX? 748 00:40:56,952 --> 00:41:01,092 Pay Mayock: I hate to say yes quickly, but the answer is yes, because you're 749 00:41:01,092 --> 00:41:04,122 looking at the cost of your system, whatever laptop you have, et cetera. 750 00:41:04,512 --> 00:41:13,092 Um, to be able to get a docking station, for under 300 bucks and then 751 00:41:13,122 --> 00:41:18,672 put all your, all your events on a cartridge and keep it on the shelf. 752 00:41:19,122 --> 00:41:19,902 That makes sense. 753 00:41:20,692 --> 00:41:26,362 I, I would find it hard to understand someone buying a, a tape drive. 754 00:41:26,632 --> 00:41:29,962 Like an LTO-8 and using that for their content. 755 00:41:30,022 --> 00:41:31,522 It's just so much capacity. 756 00:41:31,732 --> 00:41:33,772 Now, if you have that much capacity. 757 00:41:33,952 --> 00:41:34,462 Great. 758 00:41:34,822 --> 00:41:35,362 Okay. 759 00:41:35,782 --> 00:41:36,952 But it's overkill. 760 00:41:37,072 --> 00:41:39,502 And the investment costs to begin is high. 761 00:41:39,602 --> 00:41:39,842 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 762 00:41:40,667 --> 00:41:40,937 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 763 00:41:40,937 --> 00:41:44,567 The, The, average, the average home, I would say it would be the, it 764 00:41:44,567 --> 00:41:47,177 would be a power home user, right? 765 00:41:47,177 --> 00:41:49,067 Someone who's creating content. 766 00:41:49,937 --> 00:41:53,927 Um, although in today's day and age, that could be my granddaughter. 767 00:41:53,927 --> 00:41:54,527 Who's nine. 768 00:41:55,067 --> 00:41:55,607 Pay Mayock: I know. 769 00:41:56,387 --> 00:41:56,717 W. Curtis Preston: right. 770 00:41:57,617 --> 00:42:00,677 They're all, they're all independent filmmakers at home these days. 771 00:42:00,677 --> 00:42:01,067 Right. 772 00:42:01,757 --> 00:42:07,252 Um, So, all right, well, on that note, uh, I think we'll round things out here and 773 00:42:07,552 --> 00:42:09,532 say, thanks Pat, for coming on the podcast 774 00:42:10,587 --> 00:42:14,157 Pay Mayock: Hey, thanks for having me enjoy talking about it anytime. 775 00:42:15,732 --> 00:42:19,092 W. Curtis Preston: and thanks Prasanna for a, your a great questions as always 776 00:42:19,237 --> 00:42:19,717 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I try. 777 00:42:19,717 --> 00:42:22,477 I try and I hope you feel better soon, Curtis. 778 00:42:23,212 --> 00:42:23,812 W. Curtis Preston: me too. 779 00:42:24,052 --> 00:42:27,922 Uh, and thanks to our listeners and be sure to subscribe so 780 00:42:27,922 --> 00:42:29,692 that you can restore it all.