Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef, and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings, and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Here's today's episode.

Today we're talking about meditation and adhd.

Now, don't switch off because I've mentioned the word meditation.

I know how hard it can be for us, and I know how incredible it can be for us as well, which is why I am really excited to break this down and make sure that we see meditation in the way that works for us, that we use it.

We find different tools so we can bring this amazing practice to our lives, to calm and regulate our brains and our nervous systems and find a way that works for us, because that is the most important thing.

Thing.

So I'm absolutely delighted to welcome Kelly Smith.

Now, Kelly is the founder of Yoga for you, and she also presents the two podcasts, Mindful in Minutes and Meditation Mama.

So these two podcasts are really amazing for if you just want to drop into a short form meditation that can just help you in the moment, in the morning, in the evening, I listen to a couple and they are really, really great.

So.

So Kelly is motivated.

This is what I'm reading out here because I love this.

Kelly is motivated by the powerful phrase, quiet the mind and the soul shall speak.

And because of this, Kelly is passionate about helping others achieve great calm and peace of mind through her meditations on her podcasts.

And spreading the message and meditations she offers is her primary goal right now.

And what an amazing thing to bring to the world where we couldn't need more in inner peace and calm than we do.

So, Kelly, welcome to the podcast.

Hi, Kate.

Thank you so much for having me.

I really been looking forward to having this conversation because I've spoken about meditation before on the podcast and it's been a little while since we've done it.

It's always sort of dropped into conversation, but I really want to help people with the practicality of it and also to help people.

I know with our neurodivergent brains, we like to understand the why.

Because.

Because if we understand the why, then we are more likely to do it.

But if someone just says, oh, you should meditate, that part of us is like, well, I don't want to meditate and I'm going to do it, you know, in, in a different way.

But when we understand our brain health, how it can help our nervous system feel regulated on a day to day basis, I think that's when we can really understand how powerful meditation can be.

So maybe you can explain a little bit about why you're so passionate about meditation, especially because I know that you've got ADHD yourself, maybe how you found it.

Yes.

So when you were saying don't switch off because we're talking about meditation, because I mentioned it, I want to just from right from the get go let everyone know I am a meditation teacher, but I also have raging adhd.

And so I promise it's like when your school teachers are like, we're going to do math, but we're going to make it fun.

I promise meditation is more straightforward, it's easier than you think, or I should say, it's more simplistic than you think and you absolutely can do it.

So I just want to reiterate that.

Don't turn us off yet.

But I, like you said, Kate, I care about this so much.

I love meditation.

And part of this is because when I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was in sixth grade, I didn't, and I'm in my 30s now, so that was a long time ago.

But I didn't know that much about it, especially in ADHD in women and how that presented and what that meant and something that I again, because we're neurodivergent, we want to know the why, we want to understand.

We love a hyper fixation.

But the more that I've learned about it, educated myself on what ADHD is, what it means, what's happening in your brain, while also being fascinated by yoga and meditation because it is something that has always been a life raft for, for me in some of life's most difficult moments.

I started with yoga just as a form of like cross training for my sports.

I was an athlete and I was there for like the good stretch and because I knew it was supposed to help prevent injury and that was it.

I was just there for the physical.

And then When I was 16, my mom was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer.

But her story has a happy ending.

She's still with us and, and so we love Mama Smith around here, but at the time, I didn't really know what to do.

Anyone who's been a caregiver, who's listening, you know how difficult that is.

You know that you give everything to someone, and then it's like, what's left for you, and you give it all willingly.

And so I had to try to find ways to care for myself.

And also my mom's oncologist were saying things like, you know, you can do visualizations.

It's good for your white blood cell count.

Or my mom's church had given her this, like, prayer shawl, which I believe.

So meditation is single, pointed concentration.

And so my belief is that prayer can be a form of meditation.

Because all you're doing when you meditate is if you think of your mind as a light bulb.

When we're walking around all day, the light's on, it's shining in all directions.

When we meditate, we're trying to take the light bulb and turn it to a laser.

And then you're pointing that laser at just one thing, so you can point that at whatever you want.

And when you are in prayer or your devotional time, you're taking that mental power and you're just focusing it on that one thing.

So my eyes are really open to sort of the softer side of both yoga and meditation.

And I didn't know it at the time that that's what I was doing, that I was meditating or that I was, you know, cultivating this intentional introspection.

But it was just such a life raft for me at different points.

And then when I went to university and went through what am I gonna do with my life?

You know, those big questions, what's the meaning of life?

What am I gonna do after this?

I had yoga and meditation to fall back on, and that's when I graduated.

That's when I did my first yoga teacher training.

Because I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, and I just loved it so much.

And I felt this pull to share this and teach it.

And that's where then kind of these two stories intertwine is the more that I was learning about myself, and I think as many people with ADHD can relate to this experience, I just always felt different, but I didn't really understand, like, why, but I just knew I was different.

So the more that I learned about myself and how my brain worked, how I worked, how I interacted with the world, and also then began teaching this thing of yoga and, you know, dabbling in meditation, that's where I Sort of found this sweet spot of being so fascinated on how they could complement one another and diving into how meditation supports our brain and how it is doable.

I didn't think it was doable.

So I hold space for everyone thinking, I can't meditate, I have adhd.

And now I joke, but it's not a joke.

I really mean it.

But saying your brain is too busy, or, oh, I have adhd, I can't meditate.

To me, that's like saying, I'm too dirty to take a shower.

It's like, what are you gonna do to remedy that problem?

And I love to break it down, make it simple, make it digestible, make doable and realistic.

Because I think there's so many myths.

It's so much more simplistic than you think.

Yeah, I think that is so right.

And I'm sort of just recording what you said then is this intentional introspection, which I love, because with our brains we can go off into this introspection of overthinking and ruminating and catastrophizing, and then this sort of anxiety thought loop just kind of takes over.

But when it's intentional, when we say, right, I'm going to just sit in this prayer.

And I often do this.

And I think prayer, the word has been sort of hijacked by religion.

But we can use prayer for whatever faith that we have, you know, whatever beliefs that we have.

And I love what you said, the laser focus.

We can just sit there and make that choice to say instead of going off into a million directions.

Of all the what ifs and the fear and the worry, we can say, right, I'm intentionally going to hold space.

Now, I do this every single day.

And I love that you call this a type of meditation because that helps me know that even if I'm not sitting in stillness that day, that I'm still allowing my brain to have this kind of moment where it is just softening and coming down and just focusing on that one thing.

Let's.

Let's break it down.

What would you say people can begin with if they are really are a first timer, but know they need help to ground themselves and to find a little bit of quiet in their brains.

In their minds.

Yeah.

So first I want to paint a realistic picture for everyone listening who feels that way.

So one is, when it comes to meditation, the first thing that I like to tell everyone is that Studies tell us 8 to 12 minutes a day is enough to get the physical, mental, and emotional benefits of meditation.

So if you are thinking, well, I don't have an extra hour a day.

I don't have 30 minutes, I don't even have 20 minutes.

Don't worry about it.

I only meditate for like 10ish minutes a day.

I have ADHD.

I also have like two kids, four and under, so I don't have that extra time either.

And you don't need it.

And so take the pressure off of yourself.

If you feel like I have to be doing this for X amount of time, you don't even 8 minutes, even 5 minutes is better than, than nothing.

And if you think about like if you were to go to the gym and your brain can change and develop over time just like your muscles can.

If I wanted to go to the gym and let's say I wanted my arms to get stronger, I wouldn't go to the gym and pick up like one heavy weight and like lift it a couple of times and then put it down and be like, great, now I don't need to come back for a week or two and then come back and do it again.

That's not how things change.

The way things change is that you start with where you're at with something that's challenging, kind of challenging.

You start there, you lift your weights and then you go, oh, okay, that was good, that was challenging.

You leave, you come back the next day or in a couple of days and you do that thing again.

And then over time, what becomes challenging to you is going to change.

And so you're going to increase the weights that you're lifting.

Think of your brain in the same way we know that our brains are able to change just concept of neuroplasticity.

And so the realistic picture that I want to paint for everyone is what might be challenging for you today.

If you're just starting, that doesn't mean that's what's going to be challenging for you later on.

You need to start somewhere.

And anything that you're doing, whether it's three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, that's better than nothing, right?

Going to the gym and lifting weights that, you know, lifting five pound weights is better than just being like, well, I can only lift 5 pound weights, so I just won't go to the gym today.

I just won't go because, you know, whatever.

Another thing I want to highlight is that the point of meditation isn't to magically turn your brain off like a light switch and you never get distracted.

It's again, turning that light bulb into a laser pointer.

But you're going to get distracted.

You're going to be pointing that laser at, let's say, your breath or a body scan or the words that maybe I or someone else are leading you through in a guided meditation.

And then your laser's gonna wander off.

It's gonna point to, oh, I have to go to the grocery store later.

Are we all out of bananas?

Or, oh, it's gonna go to, ooh, I don't know.

I had kind of that uncomfortable conversation with my partner last night.

I wonder how they're feeling this morning.

Oh, it's, you know, gonna think about, did I remember to send my kid with whatever in their backpack today?

It's going to do that.

So the laser's gonna deviate.

Then you bring it back.

It's gonna deviate, bring it back.

It's not about magically not being distracted for a few minutes.

It's recognizing you're distracted, not going headfirst down the distraction.

Bringing it back, bringing it back, bringing it back.

The last thing that I want to highlight to paint this realistic picture is two things.

One, you will most likely feel better, like, in the moment.

The thing that is great about meditation is that even just sitting quietly for a few minutes, really great for your nervous system, good for your mental clarity.

All of that also just by and large feels calming.

What's also gonna happen is then in the long term, usually after about eight weeks of, if you can daily meditation, remember, we're just doing like five to eight minutes a day.

That's when you're actually gonna be able to really feel and see the changes.

Because that's when we know around eight weeks that you could, in a brain scan, see the changes in your brain after that time, after about 8ish weeks or so.

So that's kind of what meditation.

You don't need to sit on a mountaintop like crisscross applesauce for an hour and magically just turn off your brain.

And then you wake up and you're like, I'm enlightened.

I was not distracted at all.

That's not what it's about.

Yeah, it's.

It's so interesting, isn't it, what you said about that after eight weeks you can see a change in the brain.

Which part of the brain is it?

Is it the amygdala?

Is it like, which part is.

Are we kind of actively changing it for good, or do you have to carry on?

So if you do, you're continually meditating for eight weeks, will it then change back if you don't carry on the meditation?

Because we know it's plastic, so it can go one way or the other.

It fascinates me.

The brain health side.

Okay, that's such a great question.

And it kind of depends with everything, right?

So to answer your first question, what part of the brain is being impacted?

There's two main parts.

One is the amygdala, just like you called out, right?

So that's the pain, fear, worry center of the brain.

For so many of us, it is enlarged and it's overactive.

This is a part of the brain that kicks off the fight or flight mechanism.

So basically what happens is you perceive some kind of a threat.

And the amygdala, I refer to it as a she, but she kind of gets a bad rap, right, for being dramatic, kicking off fight or flight, sort of giving us our anxiety.

But it's such an important part of the brain because it's designed where a thousand years ago or whatever, if we were walking around going on a hike, we're hunters and gatherers and we see a bear cross our path or whatever, a saber tooth tiger, whatever it was, our brain goes, oh, danger, I need to go into this fight or flight because this is a life threatening situation, I need to protect myself and survive.

And so it would kick off that fight or flight mechanism.

Cause you're either going to run away or hide or fight the bear, but usually within about 90 seconds or so you should be going back to baseline.

That's how we kind of develop this part of the brain, right?

That's its important function.

The tricky part now in our everyday lifestyles is that we are one constantly overstimulated.

We are always bringing in information, a lot of it usually not very good.

And our brains can't decipher between different types of quote, threats.

So an uncomfortable conversation that you had with someone, that email your boss sends that says, hey, do you have time to meet today?

And then there's like no other context and you're like, oh no, I'm getting fired.

Seeing something distressing on the news, listening to even a true crime podcast, things like that.

And like, you know, sometimes I like to listen to it too.

But those things that are distressing will kick off that fight or flight mechanism because our bodies can't distinguish, our brains can't distinguish between this is a bear or this is, I'm just listening to something stressful or I saw something that upset me and we have the same reaction.

So for constantly getting that, this activation of the amygdala and it's saying, oh, danger, danger, danger, danger, Threat, fear, worry, do something about this.

Our brains adapt, so our amygdala gets bigger, it gets stronger, and it starts reacting faster because it's going, oh, there's danger everywhere in this life.

I need to be on high alert constantly.

And so as soon as something flags that amygdala, I need to be ready to get a big reaction fast.

So when you meditate, when you, what happens is you start to quiet down the amygdala, so it starts to reverse that.

So that's the big thing, is that over time it can shrink the size and the reactivity of the amygdala.

So if you are struggling with anxiety, if you are not chronic, like fight or flight, a lot of times it comes from the amygdala.

So we want to calm that part of the brain down.

Meditation does that.

It reduces activity in the amygdala, while at the same time it increases activity in the prefrontal cortex, which is really important for the ADHD brain.

I know a lot of your listeners, and I'm sure, Kate, you as well know this, but in the prefrontal cortex, which is the part of the brain right behind the forehead, a lot of times we have a more scattered activity there with someone with an ADHD brain.

And this is a part of the brain that's responsible for memory focus, also a big piece of emotion regulation.

It does some other kind of, you know, executive functioning as well.

But we tend to have a more scattered pattern in an ADHD brain in that region that has to do with focus.

So what happens when we meditate is we quiet down the amygdala and then we focus the brain activity in the prefrontal cortex.

And what happens over time is this part of the brain gets bigger, gets stronger, it increases in density and it gets more of those folds.

You think of the brain and it's that picture of that wrinkly thing.

It gets more of the folds or the folds can get deeper, which means there's more surface area for neurological activity to happen.

So what we're doing over time, after about 8ish weeks, is when you can see these changes, is that you are having a greater capacity for focus, for concentration, for memory retention, for emotion regulation, and you're having smaller physiological responses to stress, anxiety and worry triggers over time.

So that's where we really see the changes when they look at imaging between the two brains of people who meditate and people who don't meditate.

And I think that's particularly important for people with the ADHD brain because those are Two key regions in the brain that are affected by ADHD to begin with.

Yeah, thank you.

That was so well explained and brilliant.

So we can understand and you know, it's kind of like simplistic but very powerful.

And thinking about that, it kind of helps us with our building our resilience as well to daily stresses which are going to be there.

You know, we're going to meditate and then it's going to help our reactivity and change our reactivity to responding.

And after decades of being like, why do I like explode after?

You know something, why is my RSD so bad?

When we're able to have a few moments to cultivate a little bit of mindful breath, work, meditation and we're doing that, we're changing the neurobiology of our brains.

We see that in our relationships, we see that in our decision making.

We feel maybe slightly less overwhelmed.

The noise is not as loud when we have ADHD and we're not.

We don't have the tools and we don't have the practices in place to calm and regulate.

I think life feels very, very difficult and overwhelming.

So tell me a little bit about, I guess how it impacts your day to day life.

You said you've got two young kids, you're obviously got a very busy businesses and you're managing a lot.

I mean, I'm thinking, how are you even managing to do this for yourself?

What do you, you know, despite knowing all of this, where do you find you're still tripping up a little bit and I guess what helps you in those moments?

So a lot.

There's a lot.

You know, it's so funny because just because you know you have these tools in your pocket, it doesn't mean you always like utilize them well.

I wanna also highlight that it can be a great tool at the end of the day.

I think we often think that meditation needs to be a morning thing.

But it can be a really nice thing for anyone who struggles to sleep because their brain is so busy to.

This is when I usually like to meditate is at night.

And it kind of helps you to just turn the volume down on that mental chatter so that you can sleep better.

So I wanna highlight that too, that if you feel like if you're listening to this and you're like, ugh, I don't wanna meditate in the morning.

You don't have to.

You can always do it at night too.

And it can be this nice sort of transition to quiet the brain down to sleep.

In terms of where I'm still tripping up, I would say.

The big thing that is challenging for me is that I am more of an introvert.

I tend to be a quiet person.

And ever since I have had two children, one that's four, one that's soon gonna be one and a half.

I'm never alone, and it's never quiet, ever.

And, you know, I.

I spend a lot of time with the kids, and I just get overstimulated really quickly, and that's where I need to recognize.

And it's, you know, just like you said, getting to know your brain better.

So it is the noise when multiple people are talking all at once.

I think this is sort of a byproduct when I've been working on cultivating sort of this single pointed concentration, but also, you know, quiet time for myself than when I constantly have, like, multiple voices, you know, and then you throw partners in there too, and it's like, you know, and everyone always needs something from mom.

Any of my mom's listening.

You get it.

There could be 10 adults in the room, but for some reason, they need mom to open the snack for you, even though there's plenty of people there that could do it.

And so the constant noise and trying to, like, filter out, like, who's saying what is very challenging for me.

And then there's always crumbs on my floor.

This is a very real look into my life and feeling things stuck to the bottom of my feet.

Again, us neurodivergent people, we have our, like, very.

I'm the same sensitivities.

That's exactly my thing as well.

And I'm like, yes, the feet.

And I'm like, why are there always crumbs on my floor?

And it just makes me really overstimulated really quickly, and I sometimes don't manage it well because it can be hard when you're in that state of overstimulation and.

And also having to do something.

So if it was just me, and then I'd go, oh, whoa, I'm overstimulated here.

I'm gonna go take that break.

I'm gonna work on that overstimulation and then come back and finish whatever I was doing.

But when you're there and you have these little kids that you can't leave, you know, to fend for themselves for even a few minutes, because they'll either kill themselves or kill one another.

You know, anyone who has siblings, you know what that's like.

You can't leave them alone for a second, and they're duking it out or something.

But learning how to manage the.

In the moment, like, I'm.

I'm overstimulated.

Like, I can feel myself.

It feels like that pressure cooker.

And then I need to like, alleviate that pressure in the moment while also being able to function.

I think is the place where I still trip up sometimes.

Yeah.

And I can recognize it.

And I'll be like, whoa, I'm getting overstimulated.

I'm getting reactive.

This is, you know, I need to do something about it.

And learning how to remedy that in the moment without being able to truly, like, separate myself and work on that overstimulation.

I'm still figuring out how to navigate that.

And I don't always do it perfectly.

Sometimes I get snippy with my kids.

We all do it.

Even as a meditation teacher, there's times where I'm just like, okay, enough.

Everyone just stop talking for like two minutes.

Mom needs a silence break.

But we're also, we're still human and these things happen.

Yeah, that's it.

And I think it's so refreshing to hear that because our kids do trigger us.

And what, you know, what you're saying there around the noise and the overstimulation and the crumbs and the anxiety about, you know, the floor and all of that.

Like, I think what we're recognizing more and more now, this overlap of how ADHD and autism and all the sensory sort of differences and the processing overlap each other.

And it's not just ADHD and it's not just autism.

Autism that we recognizing and we're seeing, we're understanding that this is just a neurodivergent cauldron of just different ways it shows up.

And you might not have seen this yet because your kids brought certain things out for you.

And I'm very similar.

That noise for me and overstimulation and lots of people in my kitchen and people.

I have certain members of my family who are also neurodivergent, but they're loud and they're talkative and they're non stop and they have this volume button that never goes down.

And for me, I am like so triggered by that.

So I kind of need to go and hide and decompress in a dark room.

And I have started to really just give myself a lot of self compassion, but also create boundaries, a lot, lot better boundaries about my own needs because I used to put my own needs right at the bottom.

And now I recognize that my needs are just as worthy as other people's needs.

And now I sort of kind of go, you know what?

Having loads of people in my kitchen at the same time is not something I enjoy.

So I'm kind of like minimizing that a little bit now.

And I also just want to say, because I know where you're at.

My kids are older now, but it's a really hard time when they're so needy on you and they.

The noise levels and the fact that you can't just go and take that break is really hard.

And it's just saying, like, recognizing that and knowing that it will change and evolve.

But when we're in it and we are not getting those needs met because we obviously have to prioritize our children in that.

In that situation can also be really hard.

But I'm glad for you that you have something that you're able to go to, like you say, in the evening.

I wanted to also touch on, I guess, maybe from a selfish perspective, because I see meditation as a very sort of spiritual practice, and it helps me find clarity in my life.

And again, with our noisy brains, when maybe we have things that we want to aspire to, we have ambitions, we want to manifest things, we want to change the course of our, you know, life direction, we want to do different things.

How would you say to people who are thinking, I need to be able to visualize a different life.

I want to try and step into a new alternative, this new future.

What meditations would you kind of recommend for that?

So I do love, like, a visualization, like one where you're visualizing your ideal day.

You can also write this down as well.

It's called scripting, if you like to write.

So I know not everyone's into journaling, but I think meditation and journaling go so well together, like hand in hand.

And also for the neurodivergent brain, like, it gives you a thing to do, which sometimes feels nice.

I wrote a book called you'd Are not yout Thoughts?

And I call it a book, but it's like kind of more of like a guided journal.

And it's actually all around, like, anxiety.

And you have different meditations and journal prompts for, like, eight weeks.

And the reason that I did that is because, one, they go so well together.

But also, as we've talked about, that eight week kind of mark for rewiring your brain.

But you can do either scripting where you write it, or you can just visualize it, or both, where you basically imagine your ideal day as your ideal self.

Sometimes you'll hear people call these, like, activations.

But basically what it is is whether you're writing it or visualizing it, is you're just going to.

In present tense, if you're writing, you're going to just imagine like, I just woke up and, you know, the magic wand was waved and I am now my greatest version of myself.

What do they do?

How do they even wake up differently?

And you're going to imagine living a day as your highest self, greatest self, whatever you're trying to imagine, and without judgment, you're just going to go through and you're going to be like, what do they do differently?

How do they wake up when they wake up?

Like, where are they when they wake up?

What do they eat for breakfast?

It's the little mundane things.

Because I think that sometimes we think about, especially if you want to overhaul your life, you're like, well, I have a new career or I've met the love of my life or whatever it is.

But actually, sometimes I find the magic is in the little things.

And you find these little clues where you're like, oh, well, she.

This ideal version of me, she wakes up and she doesn't scroll on her phone first.

She wakes up and she goes and she makes a cup of coffee, she meditates, she reads a book, she takes a shower, whatever it is, or she just wakes up and she takes a shower and then goes for a walk.

I don't know.

And when you start to visualize the mundane tasks as well as the big things, this will give you clues as to what you can actually start doing now to start getting towards that version of yourself.

So if it is, like, for me, a big thing I've been doing is not trying to scroll first thing in the morning, not picking up my phone first thing in the morning.

And so it'll give you clues as to what you can start changing tomorrow, today that you could do differently and start doing as your ideal self.

And so I love to do a meditation like that where you're visualizing a day as that sort of ideal version of you or that new version of you, or writing it too, through, like, scripting.

And I think it'll give you a clear picture and also give you little clues of things that you could start doing tomorrow instantly, you know, for manifesting the love of our life.

It's possible that while you're doing that, then, you know, tonight at the shop, you'll bump into them.

But also maybe you realize that the version of you that has met the love of your life fuels their body with more vegetables.

So you're like, okay, so when I go to the shop, I'm gonna buy more vegetables, because that's something that I can start doing immediately.

And it'll slowly get you to that version of yourself by just making these little simple changes that you'll find through your visualization that your sort of new self, ideal self, is already doing.

Yeah, it's about intentionality, isn't it?

It's being really sort of conscious and intentional about those little things.

And like you say we can go through months, years of our life picking up our phone, scrolling, getting overwhelmed, upset, comparing.

That's never going to be me.

That's always going to be someone else.

And we can sort of just stay in this, like.

And this mindset of it's never going to happen to me.

But I know that if it wasn't for my daily intentionality of, like, choosing, Choosing.

Yes, it's not the easiest choice.

Yes, it's hard.

Yes, I'm missing out on things.

Yes.

You know, there's certain times where I'm working at weekends or doing different things, but I had it in my head that I was going to write a book a really, really long time ago, and way before I kind of went on this journey with ADHD and all of that.

But I just wanted to.

I just wanted to write a book.

I knew that.

That there was, like, a book in me.

And I used to visualize it during, like, yoga sessions and meditation and everything.

And I just kept nudging that dial, nudging and nudging.

And I now have a book out, and it's incredibly exciting, but also, like, crazy.

And I look back at that journey, and the.

The journey was not one day.

I just decided I was gonna find an agent.

And that was, you know, that was it.

It was literally every single day.

Choosing, being intentional, you know, visualizing, working towards it, obviously putting the action in.

But I do think that it was those moments, like you say, like, the journaling and the thinking and the being intentional, and like, laser focusing.

And I.

And I did quite a lot of that visualizing.

But for me, I'm going to go back to my ADHD brain.

A lot of us, we struggle with the visualization of specific details, and I struggled a little bit with that.

So I used to go into that more of, like, a feeling, like, how do I want to feel?

And the feelings kind of were for me.

So if someone says, visualize that you're getting up and you're making a coffee and then walking on the beach, and then did it.

My brain would just go, no, there's no.

There's no vision there.

Just like.

And then I'd spend the whole meditation going, why can't I visualize?

But then if someone says, you know, step into that feeling of gratitude, step into that feeling of appreciation, of love that I could harness.

I could.

I could harness that in my body.

Is that something that you kind of work with in your meditations where you kind of harnessing feelings as opposed to those visions?

I think it's.

There's a special word for it and the words just gone out my brain.

But there is a word for people that can't visualize.

It's like something graphia or something, right?

It's like, yes.

So yes and no.

Because the thing that's tricky when you're creating guided meditations is everyone's going to want to need something a little bit different.

So that's why I try to do a little bit of everything.

And then people can listen and sort of find the ones, save the ones that really resonate with them.

Because for some people, they need the exact opposite.

They're like, kelly, just take me through the whole journey from beginning to end and like, give me every detail so I can just follow it.

And then there's some people where they're like, I just can't imagine these things.

Like, I need to feel it or I need to focus on my breath.

And so I try to pull different elements, different types of meditation, like different techniques.

Some that are more visualization based, some that are a little bit more like, tactile even, some that are more physical, like a body scan.

And it's really about finding, as you called it, your personal recipe.

But I have heard this from people too, that sometimes they have a hard time visualizing, and that can be really challenging.

And so I think it's all about finding your recipe and like, what works for your brain.

And then maybe creating like a little list or saving your favorite episodes or whatever it is so that then you can revisit those which.

Anyone who wants to start a meditation practice, don't give up after the first one or few.

Because there's a lot of different styles out there.

There's also a lot of different teachers out there.

And if someone's voice doesn't resonate with you, find someone else with a different voice.

If the particular style, if you're like, I don't like a body scan, there's so many other techniques, there's so many different styles and lineages of meditation.

Try different stuff until you find the one that works for you and that resonates with your life, works for your brain.

That's really the secret in there, is finding the one that works for you.

That's why I like to take a lot of different elements and I like to do the deep dives and the hyper fixations and learn all about particular styles so then I can pull out elements.

But I'll never tell you.

And I'm a little suspicious sometimes of people who say, like, well, this is the one thing that's gonna, like, fix your life because we all need something different.

Like, for me, I.

I really enjoy loving kindness, meditation.

It feels good to me, but that's what feels good to me.

That doesn't mean that that's going to be the thing for everyone else.

And so try different things until you find the one that really resonates with you.

It just means that one's not for you.

Yeah, yeah.

I think with your podcast Mindful in Minutes, I think you've offer a lot of options and I think that's really, really great.

Tell me, how can people work with you?

Like, if they're listening and they really love your mindset, what you offer.

Can you direct people to what services you've got going on at the moment?

Yeah.

Thank you.

So anyone who's listening and you're like, I would be interested in dabbling in this.

Just wherever you're listening, go into the little search bar and type Mindful in minutes.

I'd love to have you there.

I have over 500 different episodes.

Most of them are guided practices.

Some of them are sort of more lecture style, like more educational, if you love that.

Also, if you are in the fertility, prenatal or postpartum period of your life.

My other show, Meditation Mama, is guided meditations just for that particular stage of your life.

So I would love to get the opportunity to meditate with you in either of those places.

Otherwise, just going to my website, yogafroyouonline.com there's information on my books.

I have one on how to weave meditation into the family system.

And then I have youe Are not yout Thoughts, which is all around meditation and the brain and anxiety retreats and things like that.

Otherwise, as you know, Kate, having the two little ones, mostly I'm focusing on the podcast and then I do a couple of retreats a year, but that's my main focus right now, so that I can also be the parent that I want to be and be able to do both.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, it sounds like you're super busy and what you're bringing to the world is, is really helpful and I'm so glad that we've been able to sort of break down meditation for people.

So that stigma or that feeling of it's just too much for me.

It's just too big a thing for me to take on.

I hope.

Feels a little sort of like softer and a bit more welcoming for people.

I know that I've already followed your podcast and I'm going to have it there and I know that I will be using it because for me to be able to select a five or eight minute meditation quickly without having to scroll through YouTube or whatever is massive.

And I actually really connected to your voice.

So thank you.

Thank you so, so much.

I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Kate.

I've had such a great time chatting with you and talking about ADHD and meditation, two of my favorite things.

If today's episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for even further support, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, is now available to order from anywhere you get your books from.

I really hope this book is going to be the ultimate resource for anyone who loves this podcast and wants a deeper dive into all these kinds of conversations.

If you head to my website, adhdwomenswellbeing.co UK, you'll find all the information on the book there, which is going to be out on the 17th of July.

Thank you so much.