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Crying and the Polyvagal Ladder.

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How does it fit into our
autonomic Polyvagal states?

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You might be wondering.

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And in this episode, I
am going to address that.

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I'm going to share with you a brief
clip that comes from one of the

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meetups I hold within the private
community, the Stucknaut Collective.

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And then on the other side of this
brief clip, I'm going to, well, I'll

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meet you on the other side of it and
share some more thoughts with you.

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Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.

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I'm a coach and a therapist who wants
to teach you how to live with more

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calm, confidence, and connection
without psychobabble or woo woo.

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Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.

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I hope you enjoy the clip.

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This is obviously not therapy,
nor should it replace therapy.

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And you're about to hear an AI voice.

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Where does crying fit
on the Polyvagal ladder?

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Crying is an action, so it's not a
state, so it wouldn't be on the ladder.

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So like where on the ladder
would that come from?

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Is that what you mean?

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Like what you're asking?

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Okay.

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I associate crying with release.

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It has to be a self regulatory process.

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We feel better after, you know, a good
cry, I think it comes from freeze.

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Some level of frozen- it doesn't
have to be a ton- but some level of

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frozen sympathetic activation that
is being released through crying.

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With deep deep deep freeze trauma and
pains more like rage- the kind of freeze

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that explodes into rage or panic or
overwhelm, shame- when we cry from that,

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I think it's an attempt to release the
inner pains but a lot of times it just...

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we end up like destroying stuff
or hurting somebody or ourselves.

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And so it just reinforces the pain.

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But I think that crying is an
attempt to release and there's a

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way to like a healthy way to do
that and to feel better afterwards.

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It is something like we do tense up
and then we release our, our breathing

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spontaneous- spontaneously shifts.

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So I do think there is, it is
an impulse to self regulate

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or ideally I think that it is.

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And I think it's gotta be freeze
because it's It's releasing something

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that was once withheld, you know?

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Rage is frozen fight activation.

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Like anger is just fight activation.

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I mean, basically.

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Anxiety would come from flight.

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Anger comes from fight, but that's
just the basic state activation.

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Remember sympathetic can have
flight or fight flavors to it.

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Okay.

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But freeze is the combination
of dorsal plus sympathetic.

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It's shut down plus flight fight.

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So when shut down immobilizes
flight, that's panic.

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So it's anxiety.

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Immobilized anxiety.

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When shut down immobilizes
fight, that's not just anger.

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That's, that'd be more like rage.

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It's immobilized anger.

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We'll call it that.

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So immobilized anger is just
like, it's just spinning.

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So it's bigger, you know,
it's not just anger.

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And I tell somebody off and I feel better.

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It's immobilized anger.

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So, rage would be frozen fight activation,
panic would be frozen flight activation.

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So, when we attempt to release, if
we're in a freeze, if we're in a fight

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flavor freeze, so freeze with more
fight, when that attempts to release,

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it'll be rage, it'll be big, it'll be
explosive, stuff's gonna get destroyed.

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Yeah, relationships are
going to be destroyed.

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Um, black, blackout anger.

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People will call it like blackout anger.

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I don't remember what the heck happened.

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I just, you know, I blacked out.

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That's what they say.

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That's not just anger.

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That's something else
that to me, that's freeze.

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That's freeze, but flavored by fight.

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Panic would be flight flavored freeze.

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A lot of my younger, the teenage
clients, I would, you would talk and,

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and obviously, obviously they had to cry.

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And I would say, "It's okay to cry."

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And they say, " No, no,
you don't understand.

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When I cry, I black out and I and
stuff gets destroyed and I don't

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know what happened," you know,
afterwards that's not just crying.

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It's not just releasing freeze for them.

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It's their panic or rage is is
coming up and it's too much for them.

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And they end up just, you know, going
right back down into their freeze state.

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Yeah, it's not true release.

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Yeah.

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If you think about someone who has
underlying bullying or, uh, abuse.

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They have this like chronic
underlying, it's not just anger.

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It's not like they're just
walking around irritable.

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It's like rage.

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It's just, it's just frozen
into their system, you know, and

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they end up bullying or abusing.

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I think it's not just anger.

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There's something else going on.

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It's this chronic, just underlying
rage, which can explode at any moment.

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And not just angry, but
like rage explosion.

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So if we're trying to cry from
freeze could be really helpful.

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Ideally it is.

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And lots of safety anchoring and we
actually release whatever's inside of us.

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But it could be that if we don't have
safety active enough, that we're, our

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body's attempting to release frozen rage
or frozen fight or flight, but we don't

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have safety active, so it just explodes
and comes right back in the system.

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It's like explosion and then implosion,
like it's out and then right back in.

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I hope that little clip answered
the question, how does crying

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connect to the Polyvagal ladder.

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It's not, I mean, just to sum it
up, it's not a Polyvagal state.

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It's a behavior.

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It's a, it's a way of self regulating
and climbing up the Polyvagal ladder.

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That's kind of how it works.

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You might cry a lot, and maybe you cry
so much that you think you'll never stop.

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That's kind of, it's okay.

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It's okay.

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It's not a bad thing.

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It's a pretty darn normal,
I think, especially if you

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exist in a stuck freeze state.

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If you have the freeze that is, uh, more
on the intense side where you have some

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frozen flight or fight, and it's more
on that intense panic and rage side.

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It's not hopeless.

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Things can definitely get better.

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It is not easy, but the first thing
that you might do that might have

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the most benefit to you, I'll give
you a couple different options here.

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Number one, I think is the most
important and very foundational,

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is to practice feeling safe.

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And you could do that
in just little moments.

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You don't need to do a
30 minute meditation.

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If you practice feeling safe
in just little micro moments,

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that can go a long way.

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Um, I've worked with clients that
have really high intense anxiety

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or panic, really lots of fear.

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They get the most benefit it seems
like, not from changing their thoughts,

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not from fighting their feelings,
but accepting this is how it is

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currently and I need to feel safe.

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And so they find ways to feel safe.

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That could be something as small and
as accessible as using your senses

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or whatever senses that you have
access to and mindfully experiencing

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the the experience of safety.

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So, smell taste touch look at
or listen to something that

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helps you feel better than not.

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I don't mean go get high
and escape your problems.

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That is not what I mean What I mean is I
mean you can if you want it's up to you.

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But what I mean is what
helps you feel actually calm?

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Not drug induced calm, but actually calm.

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What helps you to feel like
you can breathe or smile?

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What helps you just
slow down a little bit?

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So, if you have a smell that
you can do, go, go do it.

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Spend just a few seconds, just spend time
doing that and notice how it feels inside.

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And I'm willing to bet that when you
do that, you'll probably not have as

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much freeze active in that moment.

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Does it solve your problems?

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Heck no, it doesn't.

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No, it doesn't.

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This is a sustained practice.

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You have to build the
strength of your safety state.

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I don't know any other way around it.

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So that, that is unbelievably important.

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Practice feeling safe.

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Build the strength of your safety state.

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That's foundational.

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You got to do that.

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The other avenue, which It's more or
less approachable, depending on who you

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are and how much of this stuff you do.

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Um, if you have a stronger safety
state, you can handle mindfully

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releasing a little bit of your
defensive activation at a time.

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In this pathway I'm talking
about, the focus is not really

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on feeling calm and grounded.

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The focus is on being more active and
using the frozen flight fight activation.

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This only becomes really accessible
if you have enough safety in

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your system to not feel immobile.

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I mean if you're in a immobilized panic
attack, then this is not going to be

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super helpful for you, I don't think.

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If you're in a blackout rage and
not thinking whatsoever, this

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is not gonna be helpful for you.

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So this is an avenue that you would use
when you have enough safety to have at

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least a little bit of mindfulness and
a little bit of self compassion and

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interest in what you feel like inside.

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And then when you have a little bit
of mild to maybe moderate defensive

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activation- so not a full on panic,
but moderate level of anxiety to panic-

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when you have that, move.

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Get up and move.

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Use the defensive activation
that you have within.

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So not when you're rageful.

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No, not exactly.

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I mean, if you can, sure.

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But when you have irritability,
when you have anger, uh, use it.

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What does your body want to do?

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Does it want to squeeze?

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Does it want to pull?

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Does it want to, um, not to
other people or any living

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things, but does it want to use-

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does it want to push?

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Does it want to throw?

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Use your defensive activation, as
long as it's not out of control.

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And that requires you have some,
enough, safety activation within you.

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How much that is for
you, I can't tell you.

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You'll know, though, because you're
actually at least a little bit curious.

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You won't be rejecting your
feelings, at least not as much.

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Instead, you might have enough
safety in you to say, " Okay,

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I'm noticing I feel some anger.

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Let me use this now before it grows
and gets into a full on rage."

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Or, "I have enough safety within me
to notice my anxiety is escalating.

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Let me use this now and go out
for a walk before this turns

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into a immobilized panic."

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So those are kind of two really
kind of basic, but broad options.

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Focus on safety day in, day out.

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All of us should do that.

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It's never a process that really ends.

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I don't think.

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Practice feeling safe day in, day
out and just little micro moments

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until you can work your way up to
something more, you know, like a

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deeper meditation on safety maybe but
you might not be there That's okay.

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So practice the micro moments as
much as you can day in day out.

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And the other option is when you notice
some defensive activation use it.

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Ideally you listen to your body and
do what it needs if it needs to pull

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then go ahead and pull if it needs
to push like into your palms do it.

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If you need to push against the wall,
go ahead But that requires you have some

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level of being able to recognize what
feels better than not in the moment.

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I'd recommend practicing these
things way ahead of time.

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If you live in a free state, you probably
chronically have a little bit, at least

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a little bit of panic or rage, which
you might feel as anxiety or anger or

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irritability or nervousness or worrying.

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You might have like a chronic level
of these things just in your system.

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So when they're low level like
that, and you can notice it.

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That's a really good time to practice what
movement feels good, or lack of movement.

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Maybe you want to lay down on the floor.

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You could do that too.

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So, what feels best?

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Practice that way ahead of time, way
before you actually need to use it.

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And then as your defensive activation
escalates into a stronger anxiety or a

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stronger even anger, that would be the
time to to use what you know already

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works for you, but you got to practice
it ahead of time and you also have to

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practice feeling safe ahead of time.

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As you do that, the level of the
intensity and the frequency of those

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bigger rage, full or full on panics,
those should soften or they can soften.

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I can't guarantee for you obviously,
but in client work, the people in my

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community, the feedback I get, it seems
like, or it is, um, that as they do

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these things, they just, they soften.

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They get easier and easier and
easier, and they don't have as much

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of a debilitating hold over you.

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That's kind of the foundational process.

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I think it's super important.

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Of course, things can get more
specific, but that's, that's the

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broad brushes, uh, paint strokes,
whatever you want to call it.

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I hope this episode's been helpful for
you, and at least starting to think

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differently about what crying means
to you, what rage, or even panic, what

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they mean to you, where they come from.

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And I hope you have some ideas on how
to handle it maybe differently as well.

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And I would really encourage you,
I do really encourage you, focus on

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those foundational pieces, the day
in, day out habits like practicing

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safety in micro moments, practicing
noticing defense in small, small

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doses when you can tolerate it.

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If you want to download my
Polyvagal Ladder Sheet, I'll

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have it in the show description.

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I actually have a ton more resources
that I've created for you and

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collected them all in the free
Stucknaut Collective section.

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It's got downloads and Learning
Hub videos and podcasts and stuff.

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So all that stuff is collected
for you in the free Stucknaut

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Collective members spaces.

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Plus there's actually a free
course there as well- a three

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day Polyvagal State free course.

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Anyhow, so download the Polyvagal
Ladder sheet for free in the description

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and, or, uh, join me in the Stucknaut
Collective, uh, with some free

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resources and a free course through
the link in the description as well.

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That's it.

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Bye.