[00:00:00] Hannah: Let me just say this. Today's episode might completely change how you think about balance and your work life. Today's guest, she's an absolute powerhouse who left me inspired, a little starstruck, and very ready to rethink how I live my life. Her name is Erika DePellegrin. Erica is an Australian expat living in Dubai, a corporate lawyer turned consultant, and the host of The Balance Theory, a top self development podcast with over 135, 000 subscribers and 4.

5 million views. But here is the thing, this isn't just another, I quit my 9 to 5 and followed my passion story. Erika's journey is about so much more, finding deeper meaning, building something bigger than herself, and redefining what balance can actually look like. She even shares her unique balance garden analogy, that is honestly a wake up call for anyone trying to juggle it all.

You're going to want to take notes. Our conversation dives into everything. Her pivot from corporate life, how she built a podcast that's changing lives and how she stays grounded while doing all of that. It is real. It's inspiring. And it's packed with takeaways. That you can easily integrate right away.

I left this conversation buzzing with energy, and I know you will too. If you've ever felt stuck, burned out, or unsure of what balance even means. This one's for you now, a quick favor before we jump in. If you're loving this episode, take just a few seconds to rate it, please. On Spotify, head to the podcast page, tap the three dots in the top right corner, hit rate show and drop those five stars.

It's a tiny action that makes a huge difference and always makes my day. And it helps more people find conversations like this one. All right, let's dive in with Erica. Erika, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome to the Awfully Quiet Podcast.

[00:02:15] Erika: Thank you for having me, Hannah. I'm excited to be here.

[00:02:18] Hannah: I know you had, a couple of pinch me guests on your podcast and this certainly feels like a pinch me moment having you on. So thank you so much for making the time.

[00:02:27] Erika: Oh, I'm honored. Thank you.

[00:02:28] Hannah: Where I would like to start, given that it's the Awfully Quiet Podcast is with your personality. Would you mind describing your personality a little bit and whether you lean more towards introverted or extroverted?

Yeah.

[00:02:44] Erika: growing up, I would always describe myself as an extrovert, the kind of person who had a lot of friends. I was always out. I used to hate spending time on my own. I have a sister who's the complete opposite to me. And I always used to think like, doesn't she just get it?

Get so bored, like isn't so boring, just hanging out on your own. But you know, it's funny, the older I've gotten, and I think as different life experiences, shall we say have happened, like I moved overseas. And so that was just after the COVID lockdowns. COVID in Australia, I was in Australia at the time. I now live in Dubai, but when I was in Australia, it was quite a slow introspective period.

And it really forced me into this bubble of. I kind of have to spend more time on my own and with less people. And it was this very interesting moment in my life where I kind of assessed how I was spending all my time and how I was so extroverted and constantly filling out my calendar and wanting to be with other people.

And I had this first time ever where I started spending time on my own and I found, I fell in love with it. I don't know if it was like, you know, I was Just over 25, I don't know if it was like the right time and the age I was, or it just helped me like really reassess the quality of what I was doing, kind of steering away from the quantity.

So it's kind of since that experience and then moving overseas where, you know, I had to restart my friendship circles from scratch. I didn't have, you know, the, the, the comfortable usual things I was doing all the time. So my. calendar and what I would do on the weekends also started from scratch. I kind of have had this shift into really appreciating a more introverted, down, quiet, slow side of myself.

And that doesn't mean I'm not still social. I still love hanging out with people, but I do think I've kind of balanced out this side of me that I really shied away from my whole life and thought that's not me. And, and, and. Maybe it was a bit scared of it actually, but now it's, it's a really important part of my balance in my life.

[00:04:47] Hannah: I love that. That is so powerful in terms of like allowing yourself to, you know, be a little quieter, be by yourself. Do you feel like you ended up feeling comfort around, you know, being by yourself and spending time alone? Does that give you energy now? Well,

[00:05:03] Erika: I almost now need it to balance out being social or going out and doing things like I, I need that time to kind of recharge or reset. It's very important now in terms of my schedule and how I manage my time. And I kind of reflect and think, how did I ever not have it in my life?

You know?

do have a very social job, don't you? Yes,

[00:05:27] Hannah: You've built such a powerful platform with the balance theory. do you think there is like a quiet trait or something that's like a little bit of an understated skill that has contributed to the growth of the podcast and for it to become so successful?

[00:05:42] Erika: I think what a lot of people don't see, and you would know as a host, I know you've, you've been doing this for over a year now, you would know how much time and consistency goes into building a show. You know, people see the one episode a week, which looks like a conversation, but the amount of work that goes into planning that episode, coordinating, editing, scheduling, promoting the episode.

You know, looking at your data and your stats and constantly improving and tweaking that discipline and consistency is not something that is promoted or that everyone sees. And so for me, that's kind of, I think my quiet trait that sits behind the success of the show and definitely not something I call it quiet because you know, it's, it's you and the computer a lot of the time, like, yes, we, we get to have these incredible conversations and connect with people, but that's, 60 minute part of what's sometimes a couple hour project.

So that part I would describe as like the quiet achiever and the quiet success behind the show, because you have to keep going in spite of those weekends where you feel like there's not that many people listening. I haven't really grown that much this last month, or I've actually had a dip, you know, there's been less listens this month.

What's going on there. You have to still persevere in, in light of those things. so I would say, I'd say that's probably the quiet skill that sits behind the success of the show.

[00:07:04] Hannah: Yeah. I love that. And it's so different from the corporate world where you will often get praised and will get recognition for like literally showing up and doing your job. And with a podcast show or with like a, with an endeavor like this, it's like you have to consistently keep it up and maintain that energy and the effort that goes in.

And, I do think that's a quiet trait indeed, because it's a lot of behind the scenes. It's a lot of, Yeah, work that's not as fancy as it, as it looks like from the outside, I guess.

[00:07:36] Erika: Yeah, exactly. Another big thing that I do that I would say is another quiet trait is energy management. So if I have, I generally like to record in batches, so I'll try and do. You know, a two week block where I'm doing eight episodes or six episodes. And I do mine in person. So I kind of try and do days where I have two or three back to back.

So leading into those periods, I'm really watching what time I'm going to bed. What food am I eating? I'm not having any alcohol. I often don't have caffeine on the mornings of my interviews as well. Like I'm really, really considered with my energy and I want to be as neutral as possible going into those because.

You know, it's not just a conversation. It's not just an interview. You have to be present. You have to be open to the conversation going in many different directions. You have to steer and navigate the conversation so that it gives value to your audience. And for me, I have to be so sharp mentally and so present.

So the energy management that goes in starts a couple of days before it means saying no to events if they're, you know, two, three days before this big recording block that I've got. Maybe. You know, so those things as well, I'd say also play a big part, a

[00:08:48] Hannah: I love that so much. It's almost like training for like a marathon and it really is, isn't it? In terms of the mental capacity that goes into interviewing and preparing for a guest. I'm in awe of that, like, you know, doing so many interviews at the same time. I often feel like, you know, trying to immerse myself into the guests that I have on and try to consume as much as possible, that's out there of them.

And, yeah, I still have an interview that is slightly different from what they've done before. And so I can imagine it's a lot of work and a lot of prep that goes into it. Do you do that all by yourself or do you have, like, a little bit of a team that you've built to, you know, make all this happen?

[00:09:29] Erika: proud one woman band here. I do have people that help me on the like post side. So in terms of. you know, preparing stuff for social media. I've just brought on someone to help me out with that four and a half years later, but it's predominantly been me, myself, and I, which is why I'm so considered with my energy because it's so much work.

And that's also why I like to batch do it because I find if I'm in that. Energy of interviewing. I don't want to be in the energy of editing and organizing questions. Like I kind of like to batch it all in one go. And it's funny, like I used to think, how am I going to do two or three interviews in a row when after one, I feel like I've given everything, but once you're in that flow, I just find I can just stretch it out.

Cause I'm already in that energy. And then I'm extra tired at the end of it, but, that's why the, that's why the, the energy deposit I have going in is so important.

[00:10:24] Hannah: Yeah. And you do them in person, right? So it's, it's a whole production, isn't it? To get guests there, to be face to face and, to manage all that. And, you know, I mean, they look great. Beautiful and are gorgeous to watch. So, well done for that.

[00:10:39] Erika: Thank you. I do use the studio, so I don't have to worry about the recording and the quality and that side. So that's been a big game changer. And one thing less I have to worry about, but thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:10:51] Hannah: And I, I feel like it's so interesting to see how you just kind of make. you know, the whole production, the preparation work for you in terms of like batching the content and making use of your energy and making sure that you're, you know, really full on during that period of time. And then I reckon you also have some downtime afterwards.

So it's not always like that. And it feels like such freedom to work like that is so different from like a 9 to 5 where. You literally have to give a little bit every single day. yeah,

[00:11:25] Erika: Yeah, I, I loved, I have had a couple of guests on that talk a lot about female energy and how it kind of works with our menstrual cycles. And one thing I found really interesting was. You know, corporate is like you said, it's like a clock in clock out. It works on a nine to five energy window, and that's a very masculine way of looking at energy because men have a testosterone cycle, which is 24 hours.

So they can basically hit the reset button every single day and start the next day fresh. Whereas for us women, it's a, let's say on average 28 day flow or energy cycle. And that is a combination of peaks, dips, and we need very different things throughout the month. So. We put so much pressure on ourselves to expect the same output every single day when our energy looks completely different.

So one thing I really appreciate about working for myself now and on my own terms, I'm still working as a lawyer. I've got the podcast, but I'm actually able to batch. tasks around different energy. And I actually will consider my cycle because I know that if I'm recording around, let's just say my, the week of my period, like I'm going to have a very different energy, I'm not going to be as motivated to be social.

And I mean, it'll be fine. It'll still be a great conversation, but if I can optimize when I do that, then that's even better. and I, and I've, I'm quite fortunate. I have a regular cycle, so that's something I can consider. But, yeah, you know, it's really nice to be able to batch your tasks in a way that work for you, rather than, as you said, in corporate, it's kind of a copy paste for everyone.

[00:13:02] Hannah: When is the best time to record? I just got to ask. Yeah,

[00:13:08] Erika: experts. It's around ovulation. So, if you consider, I guess, The biological way we work when we're ovulating, we're trying to, on a physiological level, attract a partner and hope to fall pregnant, right? That's the way that's the point of releasing an egg.

So you find you maybe think you're a little bit more attractive. You have more energy. That's when you can lift your PBs in the gym, like overall speaking. That's when the body is primed to be at its optimal peak. So recording kind of around your ovulation window, if you know when that is, and if you have a regular cycle or if you're testing or whatever that is, tends to be when you actually have the most energy.

And for anyone listening, or even for yourself, just actually notice it like next month. Just notice when you're going through ovulation or your period and just like have a mental note to yourself. And you'll probably find that when you wake up and have a lot of energy, it's, it probably correlates with that time.

[00:14:04] Hannah: no, I love that. And I think everybody can take away, you know, something for, for their work life, whether it be recording a podcast or even like showing up at work, whether there's an important presentation. And so, and we can't always schedule these things around. our cycles, especially in corporate, but to just kind of know, and being more intentional with that energy.

I love that.

[00:14:26] Erika: I think if anything, like I appreciate the reality that most people cannot, you know, pick and choose when they do things around their cycle, like that's a complete luxury. And I. Completely get that it's more that you have a bit of grace with yourself. You know, if you're trying to push to the same app we did two weeks ago and you're feeling frustrated, but it's that time of month, like it just gives yourself a little bit of, of grace and understanding.

And I think the more we know about ourselves, the more we can, it's just knowledge is power, right?

[00:14:54] Hannah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Erica, I want to take one step back, to the moment in your corporate career. that you decided to actually go for the podcast and start a podcast. just because I'm so interested with like, you know, that transition from, from corporate and then starting the podcast and how you managed to do that all.

What did that period look like? Did you have any, you know, thoughts or concerns, were there any fears involved that you had to overcome to make that happen and to get going?

[00:15:25] Erika: Yeah, definitely. So for me, I did very well at school. I went to uni, studied law and became a lawyer. And in my head, it was this perfect trajectory of. That's the way life's supposed to go, got into a corporate job, started working at a law firm. And I just had this feeling like, is this it? I would look at my seniors because corporate's very, you know, hierarchy kind of climbed the ladder.

So you can see where you're going. You can see where your career is going. And I kind of looked at the lives these people led, the things they were doing every day, the kind of lifestyle they had. And it didn't appeal to me at all. And I just thought, have I, is this, is this it for me? You know, is this what I'm going to do for the rest of my life?

And it just, it felt like the strongest no ever. I felt like I'd been, I put myself into this box and I felt so limited. And, you know, I went through this experience where I thought, Oh, it's just not a big enough organization. Let me go work for a bigger organization. Then I worked there and I thought, Oh no, it's the wrong team.

Let me just try somewhere else. Oh, let me try working overseas. You know, I constantly was chopping and changing, thinking it's just the wrong team. It's just the wrong company, but really it was the job itself. Now I really enjoy being a lawyer, but there was something that was deeply missing for me from a fulfillment point of view.

So I really had to sit with myself. And for anyone feeling this. Absence or lack or dissatisfaction in their job. I'd highly, highly recommend doing this. Just sit with yourself and ask yourself, what is it that's missing from this job? You know, what am I feeling? I'm not getting from this job. I think the problem is too, we, we put so much pressure on our job to be the thing that satisfies us, the thing that defines us, you know, when you meet people, Oh, Hey, I'm Erica, I'm a lawyer.

You know, we use it as this way to define who we are. And so when we put all that pressure on the one, on this one thing to be who we are, oftentimes, at least in my experience, we feel really dissatisfied because it's really unrealistic for a single job. Even if you run your own business and you've curated the perfect job for yourself, it's really unrealistic for one job to tick all your boxes because we're so multifaceted as humans.

We have so many different interests. So I had to really sit with myself and say, okay, there are so many things I like about this job, but something's missing for me, what is it? And what I realized was it was this. Connection with people on a conversation level. So I think back to when I was younger, right?

And this is a really good exercise to do. Think back to when you were a kid, what were you drawn to? What do you just naturally do without even having to think about it? And when I think about being at 16th parties, 18th parties, 21st parties, I was always that person in the back corner, having the biggest deep and meaningful conversation.

I just, I just go there with people, you know, it was just a natural thing for me. I just go deep. We'd be talking about life and that was just something I naturally was drawn to and did all the time. And I realized that in my corporate job, I wasn't getting the outlet. I wasn't getting to connect with people.

It was very transactional, me, computer paper, you know, wasn't, yes, I did a bit of teamwork, but I'm not connecting with people on a genuine, deep level. And so podcasting turned out to be the way that I could start to tap into that thing that I felt like I was really missing. And, you know, you asked, did I have fears?

What did that look like? Of course, you know, if every time you start something new and different and out of your comfort zone. It feels so uncomfortable. You have so many questions. Where do I start? What am I even going to talk about? I hate the sound of my own voice. You know, we all go through that experience as well.

I hate being on camera. Like it's just me and camera in the room, but like, I feel so awkward. I can talk on stage, but I can't talk in a quiet room on a camera. You go through all of that, but. I don't know. I just had this really inner feeling that this was something I really needed to do. So despite how painful and fearful and scared I was, I had this deep feeling and it's kind of deep knowing I describe it as that.

I, this is just something that I was meant to do. And it kind of just felt bigger than me. Right. Because my, my podcast is. My curiosity expressing conversation, and I feel I'm kind of leading a pack of really curious people who are all interested in the same things as me. I'm not an expert. I'm just a very curious person.

And there are a lot of curious people out there that want to learn just like me. And so I feel my mission is. It's to serve people a lot bigger than, than just myself, although I get to learn so much on the way. So it's, it's such an incredible journey, but I didn't actually, you know, quit my job and start the podcast.

It was. I, I, I kept doing both many years. It was actually only six months ago. So at the four year mark of the podcast that I left working for a firm, but I'm still working as a lawyer, just on a consulting basis. So I never kind of took that leap. And that's only because. My podcast, you know, a lot of people have shows and they relate to a product or a service that they sell.

And so their podcast is a great marketing funnel for whatever else they're trying to do, whereas my show has got nothing to do with my job. So for me, it wasn't ever a money making endeavor. It was a pure passion project. And so that's kind of what kept me going all these years.

[00:20:57] Hannah: Yeah, I love that. I have so many places I want to go for based on what you just said. where I want to start is, you know, that is such an introverted thing, like being at a party, like somewhere in the back talking to somebody one to one deep conversations over like chit chat and small talk.

[00:21:14] Erika: You're probably right.

[00:21:15] Hannah: And you will hear a lot of, you know, listeners not along to that and, you know, and resonate.

So, yeah, I love that. And then, really like how you're describing how we don't just need to pursue like that one job. Like, I can't imagine. like saying that you're a lawyer, it's such an easy way to describe what you're doing and who you are. And people can instantly picture someone. It's very similar with a podcast.

I also podcast is also something that people now resonate with, but it's like in doing multiple different things is where people like us are likely more fulfilled. It's like, you know, not just doing that one thing, but yeah, scratching so many different itches and, and going where your passions lie and where you, you know, have a strength and where you have something to give and where you feel like you, yeah, you have a voice and you can give others a voice.

which is so, so powerful. And, I feel like. There's in the online world, there's often the sentiment of like, Oh, you do it until you can quit your corporate job. And then you go full time into your business. And what I really loved is that you've done it in parallel for such a long time that you were able to transition into consulting because that feels like, you know, so unique and powerful to me.

I work in, in marketing and brand marketing. I would love to be a brand consultant one day. Thank you. And, still incorporate that into my day to day life. So it's not always the, you know, this one or that one, it can be and, and you can sort of like shape it in the way that suits you.

[00:22:57] Erika: Yeah, exactly. And you know, when, when I asked myself what's missing from my job and the answer was that genuine, genuine conversation on the flip side, there are things I get from being a lawyer that I don't get in podcasting. Right. So when you ask yourself that question. Like you're right. It's not necessarily a, you have to pick which one.

Cause then again, you're falling into that. This one thing has to define me. I'm me being a podcaster is my, is my definition of who I am. Well, you might also be a parent. You may also be an artist and just love doing that. And not everything has to be a business, right? I was really guilty of this. Because I've got an e commerce business in Australia and I kind of thought, Oh, if I, if I start this, like I, I went and did ceramics earlier this year, cause I really wanted to learn.

And I did so much travel in Greece and I spent almost all my money buying ceramics. So I was like, I think I should just go to a studio and learn how to make stuff so I can, you know, do something. Different be creative and also get some nice pieces for home. And then as I was starting it, I was like, Oh, maybe I can start an Instagram page and start selling this stuff.

And I was like, just do something for yourself. Just do something for yourself. If it goes somewhere in the future. Great. But you can just find passion and love in different things without that pressure of, I have to build this to a point where I can leave my job, or I have to build this to a point where I have to start this as a business, you know, take the pressure off yourself and just try things.

And. You never know where they're going to go.

[00:24:27] Hannah: Yeah, no, for sure. Like just a hobby, like just something that's for fun. I find that extremely difficult. Like, like even going to the gym, obviously there is something in that, that is. For your health and for productivity in a certain way. But yeah, I love that.

[00:24:45] Erika: Yeah. And it doesn't mean it won't eventuate into something that's financially prosperous. I mean, we all hope that in terms of, you know, podcasting, but I feel like that can't be your starting point because it's much bigger than that. You

[00:25:01] Hannah: When I look at your podcast growth, though, I was for sure like, oh, that was very intentional, like, that consistent, you know, leveling up and going into in person interviews and the whole production behind it. How do you, how did you manage to build all these skills that were required along the way in order to like, you know, make it a show that, grew so much and that, you know, got so many downloads and, and, and so much traction?

All

[00:25:30] Erika: know, I think the most important skill is openness. And I'd say adaptability, because you never start knowing everything. You can't read a textbook or learn from someone else and be ready to go. And so my biggest thing is every time I go and do a new recording block, what's one new thing I'm going to try.

I'm constantly testing things. I'm constantly, constantly trying new things. So, you know, going from zoom to in person. Okay. That was great. Then I started doing, you know, I started to play around with the format and, then my. Cause I do a mix of interviews and solos, my solos. Then I transitioned into the studio.

Then my YouTube channel started really growing and I never thought of the podcast as a YouTube first, you know, product for me, it was Spotify Apple. So when YouTube started growing, I had to learn about YouTube. I had to learn about treating the show and change and thinking about it as a YouTube centric product.

So. For me, it's just a case of every time I sit down, this doesn't mean every single interview, but, you know, every block. So every couple of months I just sit down and work out what's something new I can try. What's something that's working for the biggest podcasters that I can just implement one thing and just try something else, you know?

So I think. Not, and this is something that holds a lot of people back. They think they don't know enough to start, but the truth is you honestly just learn as you go. Your biggest hurdle is not putting out that first episode or not just registering your business and getting started because you just build and grow from there.

And I'm always just looking for the one next thing I can do. And slowly over time, you know, it's been four and a half years now. Those things have. Built up people are seeing now, maybe they look at it and think, Oh, you just blown up overnight. This is an overnight success, but that overnight success took me four years to build.

So it's at a level that growth can happen. So the, I would say that that's the biggest skill going into anything.

[00:27:27] Hannah: no, it is. It's so true because I probably came across your podcast when it was already super big and then you go and feel so small when you're just starting out and you're merely 1 year and you go, how are they doing all of that? How did they? They must be naturals at that point. At what they do. And, even though I should know better, but there are these misconceptions.

And I feel like, you know, doing it one step at a time or one block at a time can be, you know, can allow you to still stay within your comfort zone and to still feel secure while trying something new. And I really, really like that.

[00:28:05] Erika: Yeah, a hundred percent. And you know, one thing I said to myself when I started, I literally had the exact same thought as you. I had a couple of shows that I was like, wow, I really admire what these people have built. They've got so many downloads. I've got so many followers and I had a look and they had all been around for four to five years.

So I said to myself, I need to do this for four to five years before I even think about quitting. And that's why I made the consistency so easy for me, because I thought if I want to be at that level, I have to put in the time I can't expect to start and then be upset if it doesn't happen in six months, because these people have been doing it consistently for four to five years, that's what it takes.

That's the price of entry. And so that doesn't mean you won't grow faster. Of course you can maybe grow faster, but in my head, that was the benchmark. And so I always told myself, that's what I need to achieve before I start thinking about, am I at this level and comparing myself, you know, that was the timeframe.

And I'm now in that sweet four to five year mark. And I'm at that level of podcasts that I admired when I started. So I think. It's something we all do. We all do the comparison thing, but you don't know what's gone into that product, right? Maybe someone has worked for 10 years on their social media and then launched a podcast, which is big when they start, because they've got a million followers already.

Right. So really thinking about if you want to use other people as inspiration and admiration, really consider how much time they've put into building something. You know, even people, I used to have this. I guess it's a limiting belief, you know, a celebrity can just start a podcast and it's going to be number one because they're a celebrity, but they've spent 10 to 20 years building up their profile, being in movies, creating music, like they don't, you don't just become a celebrity overnight unless you do something viral, which is, you know, it's, that's a very short lived kind of one, one moment type thing.

If you want sustainable. If you want sustainable kind of success and momentum, you have to build for longevity, which means building up those blocks and that foundation over a period of time. So whenever people ask me, what's your number one advice for starting a podcast? are you prepared to do it for four to five years?

Cause that's where you can be serious.

[00:30:18] Hannah: yeah. Yeah. I love that. And I went through that exact thought process and do those same limiting beliefs, still fighting them here and there. Because when I first my first session speaking into a microphone, I was devastated because it. looks so easy from the outside and like, how difficult can it be? I have conversations all the time.

I can likely do interviews. I can, you know, reach out to people and, and all that jazz. And then you hear your own voice for the first time and it's just cringe. And one year in, and I still, I still feel that it's obviously getting better. And there are obviously things that are improving over time, but it really is that consistency and like putting something out.

every single week that requires so much, you know, willpower, dedication, you know, showing up on the days that you don't feel like it. But I do feel like my audience, especially introverts do have that resilience to, you know, to pursue things and to stick with it. It's just about the starting. I think that is often hard and we make that hurdle so big for us.

I remember when I started. I was probably one or two years into having a podcast name, knowing what I wanted to be about having a couple of guests mapped out that I wanted to pursue, but I wanted to make it so perfect, like the cover art and then. the intros and, and really make sure that I feel ready and that point in time never came.

And I wish so much I would have started that year earlier because I would have been so much further in my progression and then, you know, sucking at recording the first couple of episodes and then slowly becoming better.

[00:32:03] Erika: Yeah, exactly. You know, there's this great, idea that if you have two people that both want to start something new, they're both experienced that fear of, I have to wait for it until it's perfect. Or I don't know enough. Let me just learn a bit more. Let me just wait until I have a few more ideas, et cetera.

The first person. Takes action in spite of those things, the second person will wait for this magic day that never comes where you feel a hundred percent ready. And they'll look at those first people and say, Oh, wow, they were, you know, they knew all this stuff before they started. When you realize everyone wings it when they start something new and you just constantly learn and improve.

It takes that like, you almost put people on a pedestal who have gone before you, but the only difference is they just take action in spite of that fear. And that fear is a hundred percent normal. Even now, you know, when I made the jump from zoom to in person, I had the same fear. Now, if I, you know, this year I spoke on a few panels, I spoke on stage, same for you.

So now for me, it's not a marker of, Oh, you're out of your depth and you don't know what you're doing. It's a marker of you're actually pushing yourself and trying something new for the first time. That's what the fear resembles. It doesn't feel any nicer. It's still there. I've just changed the way I think about it.

[00:33:19] Hannah: Yeah, gotten used to the feeling sort of and you know, what can look confident from the outside often feels like fear on the inside, often feels like you know, being anxious and nervous on stage in front of a microphone, whatever it is.

[00:33:35] Erika: Yeah, exactly. I love talking about this because, you know, I. I want people to know that, like, in my four or five years of doing this, like, I've had moments where I wanted to quit, I've had moments where I didn't believe in myself, I've had moments where I thought nobody cared and no one was listening, but your why and your passion has to be stronger than what you think about yourself, because it's not about you.

Especially depending on what your show, you know, what we talk about, it's very much of service and for others. And that mission is bigger than us. So you kind of have to just get over yourself at some point and just keep going in spite of how you're feeling, but you still feel those things. And that's just life.

If, if it was easy, everybody would do it. That's what I always tell myself, if I want the fruits of what's on the other side of building a big show and being able to connect with amazing people, I have to pay the price of entry, which is this consistency and this discipline and constantly being outside of my comfort zone.

And if it was easy, everyone would do it.

[00:34:34] Hannah: Yeah. Oh, that is so true. And, I mean, just in all of the conversations that are happening, I, you know, I'm literally so surprised at some of the things that happen because you put so much work in, but then every once in a while, there's also things that happen that you. so yeah, I think it's just a beautiful process that if you put yourself out there and if you're willing to push outside of your comfort zone, that creates a little bit of magic too.

And things slowly start to happen for you. And, yeah, love that.

[00:35:06] Erika: Beautifully said.

[00:35:07] Hannah: And what I love about your podcast is. This unconventional take that you're looking to bring when it comes to balance and work life balance. And I know that this one is a big topic for my audience too. And the way we look at work life balance and how you say, you know, It doesn't really work for us anymore.

It's not really what we thought it was. What, how would you define balance and what have you learned about balance through interviewing so many amazing guests on your podcast?

[00:35:38] Erika: So I think, and this was coming from a very corporate background, I used the framework of work life balance as my standard or blueprint, shall we say. And when I was thinking about it in this way of work and life, Making things equal, balancing those things out. I just constantly felt overwhelmed. I felt guilty.

I wasn't spending enough time doing things in life that I was in work. I felt guilty for working more than I was living. It wasn't a sustainable approach for me. And when I really thought about it, I thought this one view or this one way we're talking about it, it's really hard for people to adapt it and make it make sense for them.

The biggest thing I've learned about balance is it's such an individualized concept. My definition looks completely different to yours. And not only that, my definition actually changes as time 10 years ago, me would define it completely different to how I would today. So what I've been able to develop over the years is.

The balance theory, which is a framework to balance, but it's not a copy paste. Here's how you have balance in your life. It's a framework where you have to think about what's important to you and make it make sense for you and where you're at. So I'll explain it. If we have time, I'll go through it quickly.

[00:36:56] Hannah: I love that.

[00:36:58] Erika: if you imagine your key areas of life as garden beds, you would have three, you'd have your health, which is your physical and your mental health. You'd have your relationships. That would be number two, which would be your family or friendships and romantic if you have one. And your third would be your fulfillment.

So this would include your work. But like we were talking about before, you're not just your job, right? So to include other things like your passions, this podcast, anything creative you enjoy doing, maybe you volunteer, maybe you're a full time parent, right? That's something that fulfills you. So when I first sketched this out, I actually had this third category called work.

But I realized how exclusionary and limiting it was. So I called this third area fulfillment because I think a lot more things come under that. So you've got your health, your relationships, and your fulfillment. Now I want you to imagine these three as three garden beds you've got. Now with a standard garden, it needs a bit of sun and water in order to be sustained.

I call these a non negotiables. They're our first level of priorities. So your job is to work out, what are my non negotiables in my health, in my relationships, and my fulfillment. It's very tempting at this point to go and write a 20 page list of, this is my morning routine, these are all the things that are so important.

That's how you get really overwhelmed. Your non negotiables, I just the basic things you feel you need to show up every day with energy you want. So I would say make it three to four things maximum. I'll give you an example of mine. So for my health, it's daily meditation, which is 10 minutes. It's daily movement, which doesn't mean I have to go to the gym every day, but it might mean I might walk.

I might stretch. I may go to the gym. It's just daily movement, right? Moving my body. It's getting eight hours of sleep minimum every night, and it's preparing my own meals because I know the difference in my energy when I have seven hours of sleep, when I'm eating takeaway, when I don't meditate, right? So these for me and my top four things, I know if I have these, I can show up the way I need to that day in my relationships.

That looks like. A date night a week with my husband, when I was living in Australia, we would do family dinner nights as well. Now that's changed because I live overseas. So we do FaceTime on a Sunday.and that's about it, you know, they're my key relationships that I've identified and they're the way that I feel connected to them because relationships are a big part of my life.

Again, that's going to look very different depending on who you ask. And the 3rd one, fulfillment. For a lot of people straight away, they can say, well, I work full time. This is 38 hours of work every week. But then they might say, well, I've got this podcast. So I want to start this business. Okay. How long is that going to take you?

And where are you allocating that time? Is it three, four hours on a Saturday morning? You know, if, You like doing art classes. Is that one hour a week? You know, just work out. What are your non negotiables for you to feel fulfilled every week? If you're a parent, does that mean when you come home, you spend the first two, three hours offline with your kids?

You know, you have to work out what that means for you. So aim for three, four things in each category. And then you organize your week around those things. First and foremost, Because anything that's not on that list should not be, shouldn't be there. If it's not a non negotiable and it's not adding to your balance, what's it doing above those things on your list?

Right?

[00:40:17] Hannah: Yeah, yeah.

[00:40:19] Erika: super clear on what deserves your time. Now, we have a second category of. Priorities. So we call the first one, our non negotiables. That's like your sun and your water. The second layer are things that are only going to be value add. So if I say to you, we're going to add some fertilizer to the garden, or we're going to have some bees and butterflies come to pollinate the garden.

That's going to allow those gardens to thrive even more. If we didn't have them, they'd still be alive and be sustained. But if we have those, that's going to be a value add. We're going to thrive even more. So this would be like, if you then had a five, six, seven, eight items per per category, you stretch them out.

What would be those extra things that you would add on? The reason I personally like to have this list is because I used to be the kind of person that would just say yes to a lot of things. I'd fill my time with people and stuff that didn't really add value to my week. But when I had this second category of list, it was kind of like a really nice menu option of things that I could do with my time that I know would add to my balance, that I know that would add value to the areas of my life.

So for example, for my health, if one item was the daily movement, an extra item that would be in my second category of priorities, which we call our wants. Things that we would want to do if we had more time for me, that would look like a couple of sunset walks during the week because I love being outside at sunset.

And if I have time to do that, that's just a bonus for me during my week. If I have time for a second day night with my husband, that's a bonus. If I have time to, you know, do an extra recording that week or have a little bit of creative time for my podcast, that's a bonus. So we kind of have these two tiers.

That represent our gardens that help us manage our time in a way that's consistent with the type of life we want, because that's what balance is. At the end of the day, we can say we want more work life balance, or we want to spend more time with our family, or we want to do more things for ourselves.

But if we're not looking at how we actually spending our time, and how do we want to be spending our time and then try and make those me, it's virtually impossible to find that balance in your life. The other reason this is the garden analogies. I've really liked using it over the years is because it also brings in this element of seasonality.

So, you know, you have some winter fruit and veg, you have summer, there are different seasons for different fruits. Veg, you know, they, they take priority at different times over the year. What this means in practical terms, in terms of our real life is, you know, sometimes you have massive deadlines or you've got a really busy period at work.

It feels like you have to put everything out at work and do nothing else. But where we go wrong sometimes is we just neglect everything else, right? We don't, we don't even look after our health. We ignore our relationships and we just go all in on work. So for me, this framework allows me. To put more energy and time into work when I need to and not feel guilty, but I don't neglect the other 2.

I just keep those non negotiables active because like a garden, if we neglected it, it would die. Right? It wouldn't be sustained. By the time we go back to revive it. It's so much more groundwork we have to do, but if we just have these 3, 4 things that we know, okay, I'm going to allow myself to work 12 hour days because that's what that area needs for me.

It's the season of work, but I'm going to keep my other non negotiables alive. Then that's how you maintain your balance irrespective. Of what season you're in.

[00:43:55] Hannah: I love that garden metaphor. And that last bit is so, so important. I feel like, because. We are so quick to number them to, like, say, you know, this is my number one, like, work or fulfillment is my number one. And then what can easily happen is for the other two to, like you say, to be, to get neglected. And we're like, right, this is what, you know, what it's just like at the moment, but you can't really show up as your full self.

and be fulfilled if the other two aren't there and aren't cared for. So what you're saying is that all three need to be watered, need to be nurtured, and somehow, you know, that needs to be in balance of like the non negotiables need to be fed. And I really, really like that.because again, I think that we tend to think about, you know, spending time at home versus spending time at work and it just falls short of all this, all these different nuances.

And this becomes so much more actionable. I really like this.

[00:44:59] Erika: I'm glad you like it. I look, I really wanted to come up with something that wasn't dictating how your balance should look like, but more give you something that's really flexible that you can then apply to your own life. And I, what I found so far in the feedback I've gotten is this really works. It gives people the space and the flexibility to make it work for them, you know, because it looks very different to different people, but.

Yeah, I'm glad you like it.

[00:45:29] Hannah: And what I noticed is that you are super in tune with like what it is that you need to be at your best. And you referenced this early on into the conversation where you said, you know, when I batch record, this is what I do. I prepare my food. I make sure I get out and move. I, you know, get enough sleep.

I don't, you know, watch Netflix. I don't drink alcohol and things like that. And, how did you find these out? How, or what would you recommend people do to like really understand what are those success factors for them?

[00:46:03] Erika: I think you have to start with kind of just taking inventory of where you're at and how you feel. So after you do something, how does it make you feel? For me, that was like, if I was scrolling on my phone a lot, I feel so out of my own head, I feel so distracted. I feel crappy about myself. Right? So start to look at how you're spending your time now and how do those activities make you feel?

They make you feel good. Great. If they don't make you feel good. What can you replace it with? Cause one big tip I'd give is when we try and stop bad habits, shall we say, we try and just remove them from our, from our calendar, but you have to replace it with something else. Otherwise it's this dead time where your natural instinct or your programming is to go and do that thing.

You have to replace it with something else. So I think you've got to look at your current. How you're spending your current time, work out what's not serving you, and then think of ways you can replace it or what way, what areas might you want to optimize? I mean, we all know what's good for us, right? In terms of the basic sleep nutrition movement, it's all basic stuff, right?

It's, and it's great because it's free and it's accessible to all of us. So if there's any of those, you feel you're not. Prioritizing or you could optimize, I would start to just change one thing at a time, but it starts with noticing what's serving me and what's not serving me. And the other interesting thing, when you get curious on these two is it's not always, Oh, you know, I'm doing this bad habit and it's not serving me.

It could actually be something positive. Like I used to have cold showers all the time. And now I hate them. I'm just going to a period where I just don't like them. Like I know they're good for me, but I wasn't really getting the benefit because I wasn't enjoying it as much. I just kind of changed my tune with it.

So sometimes it's just, you need to mix things up or you just maybe thought, Oh, I see this person always doing yoga or cold showers or whatever it is. And you try and it's just not for you. So just getting curious on what's serving you, what's not, what can you change? And then just do one thing at a time.

[00:48:08] Hannah: I love that. I'm definitely going to be trying this out,

[00:48:13] Erika: Let me know how you go.

[00:48:15] Hannah: Erica, before we wrap up. and just because. We're going into a new year, starting a new year. And, I want to talk a little bit about the way you set goals or the way you set intentions for your, you know, your podcast, for your show, for what you want to do in the next year or years, what does that look like for you?

How do you, do you set goals at the beginning of the year? Do you become intentional with like, where you want to take things in 2025?

[00:48:41] Erika: Absolutely. I'm a big goal setter, but you know, my approach has changed a lot in the last couple of years. I actually set quarterly goals only. And that's because 12 months ago, I couldn't have had goals for where things are at now. So many doors have opened and things have changed. I hit a lot of my goals really early on.

sometimes you don't hit them at all. Like Things just change. Right. And so I have 90 day or quarterly goals, and that allows me to be really relevant to where things are at. And it gives me more actionable steps for the next three months. Sometimes 12 months feels like a really long time away. And I think it's good to have like overarching goals, like, you know, vision board, where do you want to take things generally speaking?

But I just find the 90 days helps me just say, what am I, what's my focus for the next three months? Push for that and then reassess. So that's kind of how I do it. The exercise I do is very much in tandem with this idea of balance. So it's 1 thing to say, okay, this is my idea of balance and I'm going to start to organize my time around my non negotiables.

But if you have a goal next year, that's going to require you to work. A lot of hours, or let me rephrase, I think sometimes we, we set goals for ourselves, but they require a lifestyle that maybe isn't aligned for us. Right? So with corporate, for example, if you wanted to progress to be a senior associate or partner one day.

You had to be the last one out of the office. You'd be the first one in the office. You had to work weekends, right? So is what you want really aligned with the lifestyle required to get there? Because for me, I wasn't about to go in and change the corporate world. I wasn't about to throw my hands up and say, well, I'm not doing this because it doesn't align for me.

I know how corporate is. I know what's required. And there are people out there that go walk that walk that walk and they reach that goal. But for me, I had to really think about, is this what I actually want? If the lifestyle to get there, it doesn't align with the quality of life that I want. So thinking about that when you're setting your goals and working out, is there a sustainable way you can do it is a really important part of setting those goals.

And I think sometimes. We think we have to be less ambitious to have some sort of balance. And I think that that approach, we're looking at it kind of the wrong way, because like we were saying before, if you prioritize your health and your relationships and these things that fulfill you, you actually have more energy to go out there and get what you want.

So getting really clear on what you want and how it aligns with the lifestyle you want is really important part of my goal setting as well.

[00:51:25] Hannah: To almost fuel the goal that you set with that balance theory with the approach that you're taking. Do you set one goal? Do you set multiple goals for various different areas of your life? How do you make sure that you have that focus?

[00:51:40] Erika: I try and get really specific. So with the podcast for like Q1, I have five goals or five things that I'm working towards that are, that are quite specific for the show. but I don't have like a rule. It's just more when I sit down, when I'm looking at the next three months, when I'm looking at where I'm at and what I want, what I want to achieve next, it's just, what do I want to achieve?

That could be 10 things, it could be one, could be three. This Q1, it happens to be five. So, yeah, I, I, there's no real magic formula, but I do try and get specific with it.

[00:52:11] Hannah: Yeah. Like KPIs that you're looking to achieve or?

[00:52:15] Erika: Yeah, that's right.

[00:52:17] Hannah: I love that. Well, Erica, I had so much fun talking to you. I feel like I could have gone various more different places and could have chatted for much longer, but thank you so much for taking the time. I personally took so much away from the conversation in terms of, you know, starting and maintaining something that, you know, is a passion project.

How fulfillment is not only work, but can be so many different things. And I will definitely be using the balance theory going into next year for sure. I really love the garden analogy.

[00:52:50] Erika: Thank you so much. I've actually got a free, PDF I'll, I'll send you the link so you can put in the show notes so people can actually work out their balance and, and just have like a little bit of a worksheet that they can follow. So

[00:53:01] Hannah: love a worksheet.

[00:53:03] Erika: Yeah. We love our worksheets. Yes.

[00:53:05] Hannah: Cool. Well, Erica, let everyone know where they can find you, reach out to you, follow along, listen to the podcast.

[00:53:12] Erika: sure. we're basically the balance theory podcast on every single platform, Tik TOK, Instagram, tube. my personal is Erica D P E double E, but it's linked in the podcast bio. So you'll find me there too.

[00:53:25] Hannah: we'll link all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming.

[00:53:29] Erika: Thank you for having me. Hannah was a really nice chat.