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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Many believers today feel trapped by religion, by manipulation, or by wounds from the very places meant to bring healing. What if the truth that could set them free has been hidden in plain sight within the very scriptures they already know?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In this episode, we'll explore what it really means to walk in the anointing and stand in God's authority, unbound, unafraid, and fully alive in His light.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi, and welcome to the UWorld Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life health, transformational coaches, and spiritual entrepreneurs stepping up to be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the Coach's alchemist, on a mission to empower life coaches

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and spiritual entrepreneurs to amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible. If you're ready to start attracting premium clients, oh, without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on a mission, head over to the Coach's Alchemist and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step to building a business where your clients seek you out rather than you having to hunt them down. Today, we are chatting with Tom Snow.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: My mom is a Jewish Christian who believes

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: in one God, the Creator of all, and in one true church, the body of Christ, made up of all true believers. Over 55 years of walking with God, Tom has seen both the beauty and the brokenness of the church. His mission now is to help others break free from false belief systems, religious control, and spiritual trauma by returning to the complete truth found in Scripture, rooted in the original Hebrew and Greek

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: meanings. Through his books, The Daily Stand and Set the Captives Free, Tom equips others to walk boldly in the anointing and stand confidently in God's authority. Welcome to the show, Tom. It's great to have you with us.

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Tom Snow: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, so what's the most significant thing, in your opinion, as individuals we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?

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Tom Snow: Well, I think that until we see change in our lives, we can't expect to see change in the world.

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Tom Snow: You know, it's just… you can do all kinds of things, but unless

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Tom Snow: we have our hearts full of the light of God, unless we have the truth flowing in us and through us in a personal living relationship with the true and living God. Unless we have that.

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Tom Snow: We're just, you know, spitting in the wind and wondering why we get wet.

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Tom Snow: You know, we have to walk with the true and living God, and so that's how we'll see change in the world, is when we start with us being changed.

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Tom Snow: Correctly first.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I agree with that a lot. I had somebody tell me once, you're either plugged in or you're unplugged. It's, like, on or off. There's… you can either be connected to the source of your creation and everything about your being, or you're in this

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In this other zone that's not…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's much easier when you're connected. So, let's talk about the spiritual Stockholm Syndrome in the church. What does that mean, and how does it show up in people's lives?

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Tom Snow: Okay. Well, you're touching into my second book called Set the Captives Free.

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Tom Snow: And where I cover false belief systems in the churches, in religions, in denominations, spiritual Stockholm Syndrome, Egypt in the church.

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Tom Snow: To give you spiritual Stockholm Syndrome, let me touch false belief systems, which is…

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Tom Snow: You… when we go into churches, churches have been…

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Tom Snow: Most of them have belief systems. They're rules, their precepts, their concepts, they… that's what defines them as their religion and their denomination. And they push that on everybody. Now, some of it may have begun with the scriptures, some of it may have begun with the truth.

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Tom Snow: Some may have begun with studying the Greek and the Hebrew, the original text, but somewhere along the way, they

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Tom Snow: Got a view that this is our belief system, and if you're going to be part of this religion or this denomination, then you have to believe the way we do.

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Tom Snow: The problem is, a belief system is man-made.

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Tom Snow: That's the definition. It's a set of beliefs, a set of constraints, do's and don'ts, laws, and precepts, and unless we buy into that, we can't be part of that denomination or religion.

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Tom Snow: We were talking before the show, what's the… what's the true religion?

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Tom Snow: And some would go, well, it's this one, it's the Baptists, it's the Charismatics, it's the Catholics, it's the Pentecost… No, none of them.

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Tom Snow: You go, Tom, well, that's kind of harsh. What are you? I'm a Christian.

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Tom Snow: I was born as a charismatic in the charismatic move, and then I quit it because it split because of denominations.

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Tom Snow: And it's because of these belief systems where men put rules and constraints. Men love power, and when I say men, men and women.

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Tom Snow: But, unfortunately, us men kind of more guilty, because we're, you know, but everyone, and they love power and control.

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Tom Snow: And so, that's what happens with belief systems. They set up a power structure, they set up a control system, and they say, you want to be part of our denomination? You will believe this way. And therefore, out of that becomes leader abuse and church abuse many times.

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Tom Snow: So, because it's these sets of constraints. It's ruling over us. Well, what happens is that those who comply

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Tom Snow: It's…

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Tom Snow: Stockholm Syndrome. People come in, and they're… they go, you're telling me some things that sound like the truth, and some things seem good, and I see them… some of what you're saying in the Bible, but I hear all this other stuff, and I don't know about that, but it's like, to get along.

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Tom Snow: you now have to become a Stockholm.

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Tom Snow: devotee. You have to become… you have to get along, and in the beginning, you feel like maybe something's wrong, and I shouldn't be here.

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Tom Snow: But then there's these other people all around, and they seem to be full of love, and they… they all accept this, and they're all happy, so it must… maybe it's just me.

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Tom Snow: You know, I don't want to listen to this wrong something inside of me saying something's wrong. Because, you know, I need this community, and I need this happiness. And so.

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Tom Snow: You buy into a whole Stockholm world, where these people have been in the system, if you remember the old Stockholm, what happened, you know, back in the 70s, and you're taken captive, and you fight your captors.

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Tom Snow: And eventually, you have to get along to live with the captors, and eventually, you begin to think, well, maybe they're not wrong. And then eventually you think, well, maybe I'll work with these people, and eventually you become the implementer of the system.

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Tom Snow: And that's the Stockholm Syndrome, the spiritual Stockholm Syndrome, is in the church, you've got all these people, and they're listening to the leaders going, oh.

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Tom Snow: You know? And I must be wrong, because other people seem to be happy. You have… so you go through this whole, and I would call it a grieving process, until you become…

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Tom Snow: one of the Stockholm devotees.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think the danger in that, and it's from personal experience, is that people come to the church wanting connection with God, the one true God, and they're hoping that by joining a community of people that, from the outside, looks like they're connected, and you would…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're trained to look to the leader for information.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, because theoretically, they're trained to…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: facilitate this journey to a connection with God. And…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: these religions and churches and denominations, they're… they're taking ownership of the relationship between people and God, and… and when you get

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when you become part of these communities, and the Stockholm Syndrome really comes about because it's like, oh god, if I get thrown out, then I… I'm…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you know, the Bible says, cast into outer darkness. Well, and that gets manipulated

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: 12 ways from Sunday, but it's… there's… there's genuine fear for your soul.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Correct. And… Correct.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's… this is just, like, To me, that's horrifying, that people are standing up there, manipulating others.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To the point where, you know, they're… they're just… they're there out of fear.

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Tom Snow: Right. No, I agree with you 100%. That's what the second book, or my… is my second book, talks about, because we have become captives in the churches. Now, am I saying every, church is bad, every leader is bad? No.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I will.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I will. I'll just say it. I don't think that there is anything good about congregations of people coming together to be the only ones who can provide you with salvation.

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Tom Snow: Right. Well, now that… if they have that point of view, that false belief system, then I 100% agree with you. The thing is, is that there… not everyone is in that category, but a lot are. The majority are because they have fallen under a spell.

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Tom Snow: The spell of the God of this world, who…

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Tom Snow: when he was kicked out of heaven, the devil, Satan, Lucifer, the most beautiful of all God's creations, we think of him as a red-suited, you know, red, or, you know, pitchfork, you know, horns.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: He's the Angel of light.

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Tom Snow: He's the angel, he's the most beautiful of God's creations, so that's why he can fool anybody. And he's the God over this world. Well, he hates God. God kicked him out of heaven, right? And he's over the earth.

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Tom Snow: And he's like, so the Lord wants one body who actually loves the true and living God, walks with Him.

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Tom Snow: And…

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Tom Snow: Instead, so the devil's like, and the Bible says there's supposed to be one body, it's supposed to be unified, one bride for Christ, and so what do we have? We have split after split after split on these belief systems and indoctrinations, and these…

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Tom Snow: denominations. You know, I asked Claude AI the other day, I said.

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Tom Snow: how many denominations are there in the world? You know, AI's good for a resource, you know? And so…

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Tom Snow: I'm thinking dozens of religions, maybe hundreds of denominations. Claude came back and said there are now between 47,000 and 49,000 denominations in the world, estimated to be 64,000 by 2030.

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Tom Snow: So, the devil's getting away with beating people up. Can I give you a little funny on… I do play on words, right? I love the Greek and the Hebrew. There's no word in the Greek or the Hebrew for denomination.

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Tom Snow: There is the word religion, and I said there's only one true religion, according to James chapter 1.

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Tom Snow: That is, to take care of the widow, the orphan, and keep your heart right before God. So there's no other true religion. You go, well, what about the Baptist? No, none of them.

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Tom Snow: It's not a belief system.

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Tom Snow: Now, if they walk with the true and living God, I don't care what building you meet in if you're there and not manipulating people and not putting you under false belief systems.

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Tom Snow: But let me do you a little play on words.

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Tom Snow: I love to do this. No word in the Greek for denomination, yet we have denominations all over, right?

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Tom Snow: Well, let's take the word denomination. Let's take the first 5 letters, denom.

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Tom Snow: Switch two letters, it says Demon.

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Tom Snow: Take the next two letters, N. Take the next letter, A. Back up two letters, nation. Demon in a nation.

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Tom Snow: And this is the truth of denominations. You have demon rulers. Ephesians tells us we don't battle against flesh and blood, but against rulers and principalities in high places. The God of this world and all of his cohorts, all the demons, the third of the angels that fell with him.

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Tom Snow: are ruling this earth and re-ruling denominations. There's not one denomination that's right.

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Tom Snow: Oh, somebody's not gonna like me. I don't care. I want to walk with the true and living God. I'm not here to placate to somebody and make them feel good.

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Tom Snow: So, denominations, demons in nations, demons over nations, and they… and people go.

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Tom Snow: Oh, you know what? Tom, you're stupid. Because I've watched Hollywood, and we know the devil and his demons can't walk into church.

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Tom Snow: And if they heard worship and praise, they would just run away. And if they ever touched the Bible, they'd burst into flames. And we watched the priests hold up the cross and throw on holy water, and we know that they're just afraid. And you want to know what? Hollywood lied.

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Tom Snow: That's not the truth.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Jenna.

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Tom Snow: And the truth is, we go, well, the devil couldn't get in the presence of God. Guess what?

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Tom Snow: He was kicked out of heaven in the beginning, right? Well, you go to Job chapter 1, and it says he was roaming to and fro across the earth, looking for someone to devour, and he was really mad because God was protecting Job.

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Tom Snow: So, he gets really pissed off, and he gets up in God's face. By the way, I'm not religious or fake spiritual, so if I say pissed off, or any other word, if you're offended, sorry, but I'm really real, and you get the good, the bad, the ugly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: podcast.

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Tom Snow: you get the good, bad, and the ugly. And so.

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Tom Snow: He gets up in God's face. Now, it means he returned to heaven, and he's this close to God's face. None of us have ever been that close. Not even Moses, who went up on the mountain. Nobody got that close in his face, and the devil's there going, and he's not cowering from God, he just came into God's presence in heaven and says, hey, if you let me touch Job, he'll curse you.

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Tom Snow: So, wait a minute.

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Tom Snow: The devil can get right in God's face. Isn't that a little closer than in the church?

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Tom Snow: Where people are just worshiping.

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Tom Snow: So, we've been fed lies from Hollywood, we bought into it. And…

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Tom Snow: Demons over nations. We have all of these demonic…

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Tom Snow: forces that… spiritual wrong forces at work, trying to destroy the body of Christ.

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Tom Snow: Those who will actually walk with the Lord. And then you have them getting over these false belief systems. So, men leaders are under demon rulers, okay? So, when you have these men that are going astray, and I'm not saying every man or woman who leads is a terrible person, but they…

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Tom Snow: If they're buying into a belief system and pushing a belief system which is not the pure Word of God.

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Tom Snow: A belief system, as I said, it's man-made. God's Word is belief.

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Tom Snow: He doesn't say a belief system. It's to believe in Him. It's a walk, a walk, a daily walk in His light, in His truth, in His blood, the light of God, walking with Him, not fake

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Tom Snow: got junk.

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Tom Snow: Go ahead.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: there's… I forget the exact…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: address, but it's in Micah. It's… what does God require of you, O man?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I forgot I now.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It has to do with…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: walk humbly with your goddess. I know what you're saying. It's, do you… do you… Be merciful.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Be just, and walk humbly with your God.

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Tom Snow: Right.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And that's really all there is to it. It's not about, you know, proselytizing, it's not about having people jump through a bunch of hoops in order to be saved, and it's not about scaring the crap out of people if they don't want to believe the way you believe.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, it's about having a relationship with

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the being that created you, and indwells you. And I believe He indwells all of us.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it's just that we can be influenced and even possessed by demonic entities, but it's… he wants what's best for us, and he wants us to discover what's best for us.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And he wants us to have a wonderful experience. I don't think it's that…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And sometimes those experiences include good and bad. But I wanted to get back to the Scriptures themselves, because we're talking about, you know, the Word of God, which has been translated, and…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: come from different perspectives, and mainly I'm speaking of the English Bible, because it also gets translated into other languages, and it has its own problems, too.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I am familiar with the Hebrew and Greek, and… but even… even so.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, they have meanings, words have meanings, but when you move them into different, languages.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's open to interpretation of what those

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: what they actually meant by what was said, and sometimes in the translation, things are totally lost, things have been taken out, things have been added in by various people. Calvin is one.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: James is another, King… King James, you know, the…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If it was good enough for the… for King James, the Apostles would use it too, or something like that.

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Tom Snow: Yep.

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Tom Snow: Well, no, I hear what you're saying. That's why I study the actual Greek and Hebrew. I have for 55 years. I don't read one translation. I know there's people who go, well, if you don't read King James, that's the only one that's good. No, it's not.

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Tom Snow: I've read…

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Tom Snow: I typically have 5 translations open. Nowadays, it's so easy. When I was growing up, you had to have actual Bibles, physical. Now we have computer software, and I can have 5 versions open in front of me.

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Tom Snow: at any moment, and I make… read those, read the comparison, and have the ability to click right into the Greek and the Hebrew.

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Tom Snow: And so, I don't take anything at face value.

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Tom Snow: the Bereans in Acts, Paul commended them that after he was preaching the gospel to them, they didn't take his word at face value. You know, he's the great apostle in that moment, and they didn't take his word.

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Tom Snow: that they went back and studied the scriptures to see if it was so, and he commended them. And nobody should take the leader's word at face value and go, oh, that's it, I go to church on Sunday, and I listen to my pastor, minister, leader.

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Tom Snow: And I go home, and I… and I pay my tithe, and if I do all this, and I'll be happy and saved. No.

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Tom Snow: Not good enough. Study the Scripture. Walk with the true and living God. And so, I dig into the scriptures, I read.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Good way to get thrown out of your church, though.

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Tom Snow: I've been thrown out twice.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'll tell you. I've been going out twice. I have two.

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Tom Snow: I was called a heretic, speaking heresy. I was a leader in these churches, working right alongside the other leaders, and… but when you confront them on their false belief systems… and here's the funny thing, I could confront those leaders behind closed doors. I could sit in their office.

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Tom Snow: and call them out, and we could have open discussion for years on these subjects, but when somebody in the congregation brought it up, and I stand up with the truth, I'm not going to go, oh, I'm gonna back the leader. I don't play that game.

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Tom Snow: Then, the next week, I'm called the heretic, the heresy, I'm pushed out.

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Tom Snow: I don't care, I've been called that twice. I don't really care, because I'm not on their side.

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Tom Snow: I'm on the side of truth.

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Tom Snow: And I was talking to them about truth behind closed doors, and if you… that's fine. They don't have to change their mind, but when they're gonna stand up and say something wrong in the congregation challenges that I will stand up and tell the truth. I don't care if I'm kicked out.

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Tom Snow: That's why I'm not part of any religion or denomination. I believe there's one true body, which is the church of… the whole body of Christ.

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Tom Snow: one true church, but that's whether you meet in your home, Jesus said, if two or three are gathered in my name. So if you meet with just

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Tom Snow: Anybody, he's right there in the midst.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, for somebody who's been really deeply hurt by church leadership, or by religion in general, where do you think the healing can begin?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What advice would you give people?

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Tom Snow: Well, I wrote a whole book on that, so I think that's set the captives free, and, you know, I don't think I can touch on it, but can't summarize everything. But I do believe that the first thing is recognition.

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Tom Snow: realizing I've been under false belief systems, I've been under Stockholm Syndrome.

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Tom Snow: And then the freedom to feel like, oh, I'm not going to go to hell just because I'm going to accept that I became a Stockholm devotee, and even if I became the participant in recruiting others, right? That it's just time of recognition, it's time of accepting.

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Tom Snow: It's a time to learn how God wants to set us free.

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Tom Snow: It doesn't happen overnight. People want to be like, we want microwave solutions nowadays, right? Just throw the popcorn in the microwave, 3 minutes later, we got a meal.

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Tom Snow: Nope, God believes in the slow cooker process.

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Tom Snow: You do that crock pot, It takes 8 hours, but it takes a whole lot better than microwave popcorn.

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Tom Snow: And…

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Tom Snow: That's the whole thing. God will cook it out of us if we give ourselves to Him, but it took years to get inside us. There's no microwave solution, okay? When God…

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Tom Snow: took the children of Israel out of Egypt, right? And they saw miracle after miracle

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Tom Snow: You know, being set free of the plagues, and the water parting, and the fire by night, and all these things, and manna every day.

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Tom Snow: But they got into the wilderness, and God kept them there 40 years. Now you go, the actual distance walking from Egypt to the Promised Land was a 7-day trip.

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Tom Snow: And God had him running in circles around the mountain for 40 years. Why?

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Tom Snow: Because he had to clean up all the crap that was inside them, and all the garbage. And while out there they're complaining, they're like, and I guarantee you go in the wilderness, you'll complain.

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Tom Snow: The wilderness is God's blessing, but we don't see it that way, to go into a spiritual wilderness to have to pay the price, to learn how to become free of all these false belief systems.

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Tom Snow: But it is actually a blessing, and the whole book will teach on that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The… the word mana, which means, what is it?

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Tom Snow: bread?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No, it means… manna means, what is it?

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Tom Snow: Oh, okay.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the word itself.

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Tom Snow: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Which I always thought was kind of funny.

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Tom Snow: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They wandered around, and they didn't know what it was.

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Tom Snow: Right. But it was there every morning for them, for them to eat. But if you kept it…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: except on the Sabbath.

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Tom Snow: Right. The one they got… that's the only day they could keep it, otherwise it'd become moldy the next day.

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Tom Snow: Yep. Well, here's the thing. If you think about 20 years as a generation, Right? Then…

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Tom Snow: 40 years is two generations, and they… God had them out there to burn out, get rid of two generations worth of crap that they had adopted from Egypt. Now, they were slaves in Egypt, right? They were begging God behind the scenes before Moses came, set us free.

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Tom Snow: So now, he sends in Moses, the plagues, does all these things, they're out in the wilderness, and all of a sudden, life's really hard, and all they can do is gather mana, and they're, you know, they're seeing the miracles of God, not good enough.

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Tom Snow: They start complaining against Moses and Aaron, saying, Would that you return us to Egypt as slaves, where we had pots of meat and bread to eat to our full? So they didn't mind being slaves if they had their bellies full.

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Tom Snow: And unfortunately, when we're in the wilderness, if you want to go through the purging process to get set free from false belief systems and Stockholm Syndrome, then you will be complaining, bone… you know, sorry, bitching and moaning. You will carry on.

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Tom Snow: But, it's worth it.

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Tom Snow: If we learn to embrace the process, and let God clean us up. I've gone through, I tell people, 40 years out of my 55 years' walk with God, 40 years I was in the wilderness. He had to purge me. Now, was it one wilderness scene? No, it was probably a bunch.

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Tom Snow: with very little breaks in between. Because I was raised in these false belief systems. I was part of leadership. I had to learn from God how to be humbled and learn the BS that had been indoctrinated in me.

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Tom Snow: And I had to be set free before I could tell other people how to be set free. You can't just tell words unless you've walked it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, ect… And it… it's… It can be as easy as making a decision.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But… As with most things, it becomes very lonely very quickly.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because… We get sort of married to these institutions, and then when you…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In essence, divorce yourself from them.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you… you grieve. You go through a grieving process, because you… it's… it's a way of life. It takes…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's very easy to get sucked into a lot of things around a denomination or a church. They'll give you jobs to do to keep you busy, so you're not thinking about stuff, and…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it… they'll… they'll give you just enough approbation to, like, make you feel like, well, maybe if I work a little harder, they'll like me more.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or maybe God will love me.

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Tom Snow: And it really is all about God loving you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And they do manipulate the congregation. It's like, if you're not believing this, then God's not gonna love you anymore.

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Tom Snow: Well, right, and they manipulate that. God won't love you, which is number one worry thing that we would worry. But number two is, now we're part of congregation, which we all have a need for community.

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Tom Snow: And we need the need for acceptance, and that need to, you know, and so… and these are things all… I address all this stuff in the book, and it's like…

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Tom Snow: You know, we need that, and so they play on that. Now, not every leader, but there's a… I have to say the majority.

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Tom Snow: You know, and they're under demon rulers, and the demon rulers are whispering in their ears, this is what you need to do to keep your people in line, because if you just let them run off and go do their own crazy thing, you know, so instead, here's our constraints, here's our beliefs, here's our precepts, here's our do's and don'ts.

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Tom Snow: And if you get along, and if you're just a good Stockholm trainee, and become devotee, and then eventually implementer.

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Tom Snow: And you become part of that community that just keeps perpetuating the same BS all the time.

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Tom Snow: over and over, and then to divorce that, as you say, you will go through a grieving process, because first of all, you go, now am I leaving God? Because I was told if I left them, I'm leaving God, and now I'm leaving my brothers and sisters, this community, who

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Tom Snow: you know, they believe all this. Am I just off on the… am I way out in the wrong…

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Tom Snow: left field. So it is a grieving process, it's a difficult process, it's why I wrote the book, because I've walked through it, and people have to know there is light on the other side. It is worth it.

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Tom Snow: It is worth it to be free.

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Tom Snow: Do I associate with other Christians? Absolutely. Am I part of a church? No.

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Tom Snow: Do I go to church?

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Tom Snow: Once in a while. I have community with believers, where 2 or 3 or more are gathered in his name. So that's what I have, is small gatherings with people as believers. I don't, and I'm not the leader.

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Tom Snow: Okay, I don't play that game. So, you know, it's believers who can learn to walk together. Now, are there some leaders who are actually doing what God wants, being shepherds who protect over the sheep? I talk about good leaders versus bad leaders in the book. There's a lot of bad leaders. Are there good ones?

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Tom Snow: Yeah. Who are there to protect, but they're not there to rule over. They're there to undergird, to lift up. I talk about the whole leadership structures totally backwards.

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Tom Snow: In the book. And the leaders want to be on the top, and then you got the leaders, then you have the elders, then the deacons, and then the peons, us, at the bottom.

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Tom Snow: And it's a pyramid, and it's upside down. The leaders are supposed to be at the very bottom, and then the elders, the deacons, and we, the peons, are at top, because if you read the scriptures, and I explain them, they're in there, and talk about the Greek and the Hebrew, it's there, we're there to carry out that walk.

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Tom Snow: Okay, it's not the Billy Graham evangelist who's to go evangelize the world. Okay, I'm not against Billy Graham, but it is…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Look at these hands and feet. We're the body.

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Tom Snow: walk.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: body.

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Tom Snow: So if you had, instead of a few leaders, if you have a ton of peons at the top of this pyramid who are actually walking out their life.

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Tom Snow: Living through the hell everybody else has to. Every challenge, medical challenges, financial challenges.

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Tom Snow: divorces, relationships, hell in church, leadership. When you have to walk through all that, and you can walk with the true living God, and walk with others who are walking that way, then other people will see you and go, that's what I want. You don't have to go out and go.

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Tom Snow: proselytize. If you're walking a walk with the true living God, and His light is flowing through us, then they'll see that and they'll go, how in the world do you live through this hard stuff?

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Tom Snow: I went… I'm going through it, how do you do that? Then they ask the question, then you introduce them to walk with the true and living God. You don't have to proselytize, you just walk.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and everybody has a gift.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They're here for a purpose. And in churches, it's like everybody looks to the pastor to solve all their problems. When there's somebody in that congregation who is uniquely gifted.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to help.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I haven't…

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Tom Snow: Scripture tells us. It tells us that we were all given gifts.

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Tom Snow: And… but it also says, the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. I love that scripture. I love the… you go…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it's just who you are.

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Tom Snow: But the thing is, the reason I say it that way is, it's… first of all, in… to believers, He gives us different gifts, and we should find those, work with, you know, the people who… who can be with us.

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Tom Snow: But I love the part of that scripture where it says it's irrevocable. It's one of God's negative statements. I talk about a number of them in the first and second book. And the word irrevocable, why would God say, the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable? Wouldn't He say, you know, this is like.

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Tom Snow: Would you say, like, isn't that the best, and you'll always keep them? Well, you aren't gonna keep them.

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Tom Snow: The problem is, people can misuse them.

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Tom Snow: So he'll give gifts, even gifts of leadership.

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Tom Snow: and gifts of helping other people, but they can misuse that, and God isn't gonna take it away. And it's like.

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Tom Snow: Well, that just stinks.

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Tom Snow: like, if I was God, I'd take away stuff of people, you know?

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Tom Snow: screw up. Another one of God's negative statements, I love it, is he says, Do not forsake the assembling of the brethren.

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Tom Snow: Why would he say that in a negative way? Don't forsake the assembly.

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Tom Snow: Wouldn't he say, hang out with the good things?

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Tom Snow: It's easy to forsake. Why would he say that? Because isn't maybe the body's forsakeable? That sometimes these gatherings, you should forsake them, because they are so forsakeable, but forsake not. Like, learn to find who you can community with as believers.

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Tom Snow: and walk with them. But a lot of these places.

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Tom Snow: You'd want to forsake, you know?

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Tom Snow: I love those negative statements, because they have a deeper meaning.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They also point out that everybody with a gift

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: if you're… if you're gathering together, then everybody has the opportunity to help each other. I had a friend who was

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they were down on their luck a lot, and people would always be, you know, giving them stuff and helping them. And he… he was wondering, as we were walking out of church one day, if there isn't a spiritual gift of neediness

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I always thought that was such an amazing… thought.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because it… you get… You get an emotional charge from giving.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, there's the story of the families that, the congregations all gathering stuff, and even the poorest of the poor, the people that they're actually going to give the contribution to that they don't even know it, they're contributing stuff.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because it just feels good to help other people. And sometimes, you know, it's just like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Who… who do you give that to without making them feel like, oh, you're the… you're the poor slob that…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So that, therefore, you would need the spiritual gift of neediness. Somebody that's good at receiving!

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Tom Snow: Yeah. Because we aren't all good at receiving.

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Tom Snow: No, we're not. I hear what you're saying.

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Tom Snow: But we all like to feel good to be part of, and we really should want to help people and help each other, and, you know, that's why I believe the scripture of helping the widow and the orphan, it's like, I don't give tithes to the churches, by the way, but I give my tithe to the Lord.

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Tom Snow: So, I keep my tithe in a bank account.

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Tom Snow: And as I see need, I help them. I will help the widows and the orphan, and I will help people in need around the world. I don't give it to churches to build buildings. I don't give it to pay pastors' salaries. If you read my first book, a lot of people take offense, because I'm very real. And in my first book, I say, leaders shouldn't be paid.

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Tom Snow: Pastorship.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They shouldn't.

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Tom Snow: No. Don't… now, you know, they'll argue.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Politicians should be paid either, but that's.

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Tom Snow: But they shouldn't. I say that in there too, because everybody always has their hand out. Gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme. Politicians and churches. It's like, no! Now, Paul does say.

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Tom Snow: in Acts that… or in Corinthians, that, you know, a leader's worth their due, and you should take… and it's alright if they get their needs covered. Needs, not…

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Tom Snow: billion-dollar churches and million-dollar buildings, you know, not lavish lifestyle, but it's okay if their needs are met. That… what are your needs? Food, shelter, clothing, it doesn't have to be fancy shelter, but I go a step further, because Paul says, even though I deserve it.

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Tom Snow: I choose to be a tent maker.

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Tom Snow: He wouldn't receive money from people. People ask me sometimes, how can I contribute to your ministry? I go.

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Tom Snow: You can buy my books and give them away to people?

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Tom Snow: Like, no, how can we send money to you? Do you have, you know, Venmo? I don't want money.

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Tom Snow: I don't want your money. I don't believe. I'm a tent maker. I'm like Paul. And I believe that the leaders… you'd have a lot less leaders and a lot less politicians if you took away their salaries. It would test what they're made of.

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Tom Snow: Right? Are you there to actually be a shepherd over

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Tom Snow: the body and help raise them up so they grow up to be who they're supposed to be. And I talk about this in the second book. It's just for a limited amount of time. It never was supposed to be, they'll be the leader over you forever. The scriptures will back all that up.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The Levites, they… they were born into it. It was like being a king. You were born into being a king. Well, the Levites, the priests, were born into a family, and that was the tribe's job.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you made contributions to the storehouse to feed and clothe them, because

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they were gonna have to do some stuff that was gonna require them to not be farmers, or take care of animals. They just had so much more that they had to do that they didn't have time in the day to do the things

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That other people other tribes had the ability to do. And so.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Today, we have just, like, it's a business. Churches are more often than not businesses, and the LDS Church and the Catholic Church are really big examples of a huge

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: organizations that are all about the money. They just are so wealthy. They… they alone could take care of the hunger problem if it was really a priority for them.

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Tom Snow: Right. Well, also, you look at the Christian megachurches. It's the same thing. They all want these megachurches. They're all about money, and they, you know, you know, give me your tithe, give me extra, you know, we get rich and richer and richer, and we become the leaders, and we're a single dictator over tens of thousands of people. I'm sorry, garbage.

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Tom Snow: And yes, there's a truth about the Levites, but that's Old Testament, and when we read the end of the Old Testament, it tells us that Jesus was the last in the order of Melchizedek, or he was the last of the Levites.

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Tom Snow: And so, now it says we're supposed to give our

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Tom Snow: tithe was to Melchizedek. Well, Jesus was the last of that order of priests, and therefore we give our tithe directly to him. And I talk about it in my first book, and people go, well, how in the heck do I do that? You know, I give it to the church, right?

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Tom Snow: Not unless you actually take the time and pray and say, God, what do you want me to do with my money this month?

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Tom Snow: You want to help people? Let's go help people. If you want me to give to a pastor.

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Tom Snow: I personally don't like it, but, you know, if that's what God says, if that's what the Spirit of God's telling you, I don't think He'll tell you that very often, because I say, those pastors should go get a job, and I have people argue with me, well, yeah, but they're like the argument for the Levites, but they're busy, and they're trying to do all this, and they're trying to…

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Tom Snow: Well, guess what? Maybe they're not supposed to. If you study the scriptures, they weren't supposed to be doing all this. They were supposed to raise up the body and get people who would work with them for free, behind them being free, go out, work, be a tent maker, and work a regular job. I have all my life. I owned a business.

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Tom Snow: You know, CEO of a business, software development for 45 years. I didn't take… never took a salary or a penny from ministry, and I still don't. I'm retired now, and now I'm just doing books and working on healthy food products.

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Tom Snow: But other than that, you know, that's my tent making.

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Tom Snow: I don't want people's money. You offer it to me, I won't take it. I've had that. I say, go buy a book and give it to somebody, and that'll help them, and Amazon will pay me a whole $2. I don't care, I'm not really here to make money. Books, I'm never gonna get rich on books. I'm not here to get rich, but I'm here to help people.

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Tom Snow: And that's how the leaders should be. But it would sure get rid of a whole lot of leaders if you're not getting paid. And in the… and the… and I agree, I totally agree with you, politicians, they shouldn't get paid, or it should be such a small amount. Such a tiny amount.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But the average wage of their constituency.

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Tom Snow: Well, there you go. I actually think minimum wage would be fine.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, or minimum wage.

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Tom Snow: Okay? Like, not enough that you can… look at these people who go to Congress and come out multi-millionaires

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Tom Snow: And now they're being paid $175,000 a year, which is a heck of a lot more than any of us make.

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Tom Snow: And that's absurd. And then they get all kinds of benefits. I think they should make no more than $50,000, like average people, and you don't get extra benefits. You live under the same healthcare you put on us, so you don't get… because they get special healthcare, right?

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And retirement, and all kinds of crazy things. It's just like, no.

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Tom Snow: The Founding Fathers said they used to work regular jobs.

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Tom Snow: And they were farmers, and they were all these people, and they just… they went to Congress for a time, and it was for a short period. I believe in term limits.

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Tom Snow: And we shouldn't have these people who get a lifestyle there, and are insider trading all the time, knowing, okay, Congress is about to vote on this, and people get richer than all get out. It's like.

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Tom Snow: If Martha Stewart can go to jail for insider trading, you know, for being a cook and hearing somebody give a tip.

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Tom Snow: They hear tips on all the… on the how things are gonna go, and they're trading on that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You should be allowed to… you should not be allowed to do the stock market if you're in Congress.

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Tom Snow: Not at all.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: At all. Or the military, quite frankly.

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Tom Snow: And when… and there should be someone watching over that, saying, if you paid somebody, you know, 6 lines of separation away, and you paid them, you know, behind the scenes, here's the… here's the info, go trade for me, but if you see that come back.

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Tom Snow: Anybody who takes that office should be under obligation to prove that they didn't steal

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Tom Snow: You know, by fraud in any way. And I think that would get rid of a whole lot of politicians, and a whole lot of leaders, and a lot of people would start living a different way if we didn't pay them, but barely a minimum, and as far as I'm concerned, pay them nothing, but…

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Tom Snow: You know, most of these people are lawyers, and they weren't… Broke to begin with.

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Tom Snow: You know, in the…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and criminals.

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Tom Snow: 6.

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Tom Snow: And in the churches, Do it, be a tent maker!

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: lot different.

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Tom Snow: I worked 80- and 100-hour weeks, and still took care of my family, still was in ministry. So, what's the excuse to people, I can't work a 40-hour job, I have too much important stuff to do. Do you?

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Tom Snow: Or are you just trying to take on jobs so you are held in high esteem as being the leader who just is the mouthpiece for God and nobody else can? Maybe if you quit trying to do that and started reading 1 Corinthians, you'd find out it was not your job.

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Tom Snow: So… That's where the difference between a good leader and a bad leader.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I agree.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So…

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Tom, you have two books. The first one is The Daily Stand, and the second one is Set the Captives Free. Correct. Both speak to walking in God's authority.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And they can be found on Amazon, correct?

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Tom Snow: Correct.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And we'll be sure and put… I have the links to each of the books, so we'll put them in the show notes. And you also are on Substack. You want to talk just a minute about that?

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Tom Snow: Okay. Yeah, I,

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Tom Snow: I use Substack, I have a website that talks about the books, and you can put that in the notes, but I… and you can get links to Amazon from there, but you can find my books directly on Amazon.

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Tom Snow: But the substack, I probably started doing that

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Tom Snow: 6, 9 months ago, because that's where I do my blogs. You know, I try not to…

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Tom Snow: I hate people who send me posts every day or multiple times a day. I don't care if they're religious, or if there are secular, you know, especially all the political stuff. It's like sending me multiple day. Like, I need to be inundated by 20,000 of you multiple times a day.

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Tom Snow: No, I don't. I unsubscribe. So, I believe in sending out… I send out two posts a week.

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Tom Snow: I have my Wednesday, where I do a chapter review of my current book.

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Tom Snow: And I'm working on my third and fourth right now.

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Tom Snow: And then I… on Sundays, I have Sunday Podcast Day, where when this podcast comes out, just like others, I will say there's a podcast I've been on.

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Tom Snow: And I don't bombard people, I just…

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Tom Snow: you know, I hate being bombarded, so I tell people up front. So that's… my sub stack is for my posts and my podcasts.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Excellent, excellent. And that is just the number 2, BeClear, the number 1, dotsubstack.com, and you also have a website, just the number 2, beclear.com, that people can also find your information at.

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Tom Snow: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thanks for joining us today. I really appreciate you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Coming and sharing with us what you're doing.

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Tom Snow: Thank you for having me. I appreciate getting a chance.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To learn more about Tom and to explore his writing and to find his books, please visit just the number 2, be clear, the number1.substack.com and consider subscribing.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And we'll be sure to put all of these notes, or these links, in the show notes below. Thanks for tuning in today to the UWorld Order Showcase podcast. If you're ready to amplify your voice, monetize your mission, and start attracting premium clients, your next step is simple, to head to Coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. Be sure to join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today and get this.