[0:00:01] Kelly Fuller: It's been? The theme, I guess, of our conversation is be curious. Ask the questions. If you're an employer and you're trying to figure out what it takes to bring someone on board, what it takes to keep someone, ask them. Ask the questions. And if you are a job seeker and you're not sure if this is the role for you or the company for you or where you want to apply, ask the questions not just of the employer, but of other people that work there, of other people in the community. We have all sorts of resources like glass door and everything else that's out there. Really do some research. So I'd say continue to be curious. And from that curiosity, listen and learn.

[0:00:39] Brett Johnson: We are looking forward our way from Studio C in the five one one studios just south of downtown Columbus.

[0:00:46] Kelly Fuller: Hi.

[0:00:46] Brett Johnson: This is Brett. Today we are going to address the ongoing issue of finding skilled workforce in Central Ohio. Where are those applicants and how are employers going to meet their workforce needs?

[0:00:58] Carol Ventresca: Brett, we've got all these new industries coming into Central Ohio, but many of the current employers are having difficulty finding job ready individuals. Well, our guest has extensive experience solving workforce needs in our region and she is going to share her expertise and insights. We need to welcome Kelly Fuller, vice President of Talent and Workforce Development for the Columbus Chamber of Commerce. Hi, Kelly.

[0:01:25] Kelly Fuller: Thank you. Of course. So good to see both of you unmasked, right? Even better, yes.

[0:01:33] Carol Ventresca: Kelly has been hanging in there with us through the last two and a half years and always comes and gives us incredible information, advice. So thank you so much for coming to see us. Okay, we're going to get started. Even though you have been on our prior podcast, please provide our listeners with a quick overview of your background and responsibilities for the chamber. Sure.

[0:01:57] Kelly Fuller: So again, good to see both of you and nice to be here this afternoon. So my role at the Chamber in Workforce and Talent really is helping to connect our members, our chamber members, with talent pipelines and also thinking about the entire life cycle of that employer employee relationship, whether it's finding people once you found them, how do you keep them, and how do you upskill them and all those things. So kind of in a nutshell, that's my current role at the Chamber. Prior to coming to the chamber four and a half years ago, I was with Eastland Fairfield Current Technical School. So my background prior to the Chamber was working at the career center with both high school and adult students. So I guess you could say I've probably been in the workforce space pretty much most of my career. Prior to that, I was in learning and development for many years. So my career has been pretty much focused on the people side of the business.

[0:02:50] Carol Ventresca: And you've not only got the educational. But you were with private industry, too?

[0:02:53] Kelly Fuller: I was. I've been around a long time, as we all have.

[0:02:58] Brett Johnson: I think she didn't want to go into that.

[0:03:01] Kelly Fuller: No, that's okay. Yeah. I actually had the great pleasure of being a Donner, and what a Donner is, is someone who was hired in at Discover Card when they launched the product. So way back in the mid 80s, when Discover Card actually came onto the scene, I worked with them for ten years. Their tagline originally. Was it's the dawn of discover? So we, the people that were there that first year, call ourselves Donners.

[0:03:34] Brett Johnson: Wow.

[0:03:34] Carol Ventresca: When Brett gives you that look, that means that was before his time.

[0:03:39] Brett Johnson: Are you kidding? I was one of the first to get a Discover Card. I've been a member since 88.

[0:03:43] Kelly Fuller: Thank you.

[0:03:45] Brett Johnson: So when I call with a problem, they don't mess with me.

[0:03:48] Kelly Fuller: There you go.

[0:03:48] Brett Johnson: They look at how long I've been with them. It's like sure. That's okay. You paid late. It happens. We'll wipe that off. No problem.

[0:03:56] Kelly Fuller: Very good.

[0:03:57] Brett Johnson: I know there's mileage to that. I know there is.

[0:04:00] Kelly Fuller: Probably.

[0:04:00] Carol Ventresca: So and that's my disadvantage, because I've never had a Discover cart. So see, I've learned something today already. We haven't even started. But the reason I brought that up, Kelly, is I think it's important. From my time in Ohio State, I had been in private industry before I started graduate school. So it really does make a difference when you're talking to an employer about their employee needs, when you could say, I understand, I was there for sure.

[0:04:28] Kelly Fuller: And I think as long as I can remember from my days in education and my current role, we talk about that gap, that chasm that's between the education world and the business world. Whether that education space is high school or college and university, each of those entities want what's best for those that they serve, the students and their businesses. But sometimes what we think that we're doing in the education space and preparing people isn't necessarily what the business world is looking for, so absolutely, Carol, you're right. I think being able to say, I understand from a business perspective what you're looking for, and then to be able to turn to the other side, to the schools and educational entities, and say, you really need to talk. You have to have these conversations with businesses. The credential or certificate that you think is amazing may not hold water, have any value for the business community, or.

[0:05:20] Carol Ventresca: By the time you develop it, the business community has gone past it and need something else.

[0:05:24] Kelly Fuller: Definitely.

[0:05:25] Brett Johnson: Well, currently, central Ohio employers have had great difficulty finding and retaining skilled workers for their businesses. Let's review where we are. How have the last few years affected the hiring and retention processes?

[0:05:38] Kelly Fuller: Yeah, that's a great question. Prior to the pandemic, we were sitting at historically low unemployment, and then the pandemic happens overnight. Right. Exactly. Overnight, we're suddenly not just tasked with finding people, but how do we move to remote and hybrid and all the things that we've been experiencing? So we continue to see challenges in that space for businesses in finding people. We're encouraging people to look at underutilized talent pipelines. So when we think about those who maybe English as a second language, our refugee and immigrant population, columbus has close to 200,000 foreign born people in the MSA. We also are encouraging those emerging talent pipelines, which could be not just high school and university, but let's look at some adult learners that are getting their GED or they just got their welding certificate connecting to those what we refer to as Ohio technical centers, OTCs or adult education here in the state. We also are encouraging our businesses to think about their policies when it comes to restored citizens. One in five Ohio adults has a background, whether that's a felony or misdemeanor. How can we learn more about changing our policies so that we can bring those folks on board once they've satisfied their debts to society? Older, more mature workers? Let's tap into a population of folks who are looking for either full part time or project based opportunities. So I think for the business community, we can talk about how we're struggling with this.

[0:07:16] Kelly Fuller: And believe me, they talk about it. I'm in those conversations. But what can you do differently? Who can you talk to that you're not currently talking to that might help solve some of those might have to.

[0:07:26] Brett Johnson: Work a little harder, maybe, and make some changes, right? Exactly.

[0:07:30] Carol Ventresca: We could do a whole podcast on restored citizens. There are so many issues and problems, and a lot of that came from early legislation on those who have Felonies being literally completely cut out of a lot of industries. When an employer says that, I agree. I completely understand the issues. But they need to let legislators know if they're not a banking institution, if the positions have nothing to do with money, why can't some of the felony convictions be taken out of the restrictive pool?

[0:08:14] Kelly Fuller: Yeah, no, that's a great question. And here's some good news. You mentioned banking, Carol. JPMorgan Chase has started a program where they're hiring people who have background issues. So even the banking industry, which has traditionally been kind of hands off, and so many other industries, they're not alone. They're really rethinking what should our hiring practices look like and what do we kind of owe to the community in order to bring people back in? It's the rising tide lifts all boats, but at the same time, you have critical roles to fill. There's a business case for this. It's it's the right thing to do. It also makes good sense from a business standpoint.

[0:08:55] Carol Ventresca: The one thing that when employers had enough applicants, they could ignore a lot of the issues. They now don't have enough applicants, and they've been creative on how to deal with their employees and where they work. So therefore, now they know they can do some new scenarios to incorporate individuals who are in different populations and still get them into the workforce, but sort of maneuver around what the issues were in the past.

[0:09:25] Kelly Fuller: Absolutely. And there are some very tactical things that employers can utilize as well. Specifically, when we're talking about the Restored Citizens the Certificate for Qualification of Employment, it's actually a document that an individual who has a background goes back to the Court of Common Pleas in the county where they reside. They go through a very lengthy vetting process that actually results in a document they can present to a potential employer that then will hold that employer harmless should that person reoffend. Now, this has been around for about ten years. Odrco receives this, and in the ten years that the state of Ohio has had this, there's something like 1700 people who have achieved that CQE, and only about 65 of those have been revoked because someone reoffended. Isn't that amazing? It's a tried and true way of ensuring that someone is coming into the workplace and that you as an employer and your team will feel confident and safe and protected.

[0:10:22] Carol Ventresca: Right. So it seems that applicant skill levels are the predominant concern that employers are wrestling with. What factors? We've talked a little bit. Pandemic was huge. What are the other kind of factors contributing to this issue?

[0:10:40] Kelly Fuller: Yeah. So skill gaps. Right. I mean, and we've had those conversations, I think, in both academic world and the business community for decades about the skill gaps. So I'll talk about the effect of the pandemic here very quickly. When you think about the trades, skilled trades, for example, and I'll use welding, gosh, auto mechanic, those types of jobs, when our education system in that career tech ed space during the height of the pandemic went into moving out of the school, there are some things I can do remotely. Sitting at home on my laptop, changing a tire in front of my instructor is not one of them.

[0:11:18] Carol Ventresca: Right.

[0:11:18] Kelly Fuller: Or in the medical programs like the medical assisting, drawing blood is not something I can do remotely. So when you think about the couple of years that we've lost in that career tech ed space in both high school and adult world, for the last couple of years, we've had a problem with getting people actually hands on experience. Now, that's one factor that's been impacted with the pandemic. Prior to that, I think we all know that we were having trouble getting people into skilled trades and getting people into continuing education, period, whether that's something very specific to a role that they need. So I think part of it is we've put such a focus on two and four year college attainment that some of the skilled trades and certificates have fallen along the wayside. The other thing is, I think that going back to what we just said, sometimes for businesses being able to accurately describe what it is they want someone to be able to do. Right. So when I say there's a skill gap, I can't find people that have that particular attribute or ability. It might be that I don't exactly know what that looks like either. Right. So if there's not a credential or certificate that indicates I'm a CPA or whatever, it's just that there are some skills I want someone to be able to do, but maybe I'm not actually communicating those well.

[0:12:35] Carol Ventresca: Right, right. And we'll get into this, but it's job descriptions that are one of the biggest issues that applicants have and employers sort of ignore.

[0:12:46] Kelly Fuller: Absolutely. Job descriptions and job postings. I work a lot with our business community to talk about. Let's take a look at your job posting. You've told me you've had zero applicants or five applicants, and it's been out there for six months. And when I see a job posting that has 37 things that someone needs to be able to do and oh, by the way, here are the three things that if you do these, you'll get fired. I'm not going to apply for that. I mean, that posting really should be more of a marketing tool. You're trying to attract people to come and tell your story, be a storyteller in that space. If you're an employer, talk about who you are as a company and what you value, skill gaps, we can hopefully maybe figure out how to develop people. But if you're trying to get people in the door based on who you are as a company, really be able to tell your story about who you are and what you stand for.

[0:13:33] Brett Johnson: All right, well, other family situations are critical, like need for child care, preferences to work from home. Now, that's huge. Aren't just the rising cost of living translating to the need for higher salaries? Have these situations changed the processes of hiring?

[0:13:52] Kelly Fuller: I think they have, Brad, and a couple of things. I'll give a quick example. Columbus isn't very blessed in the sense that we have a lot of supply chain and logistics providers here in the area. So if you look south of the city and the rick and backer space have a lot of distribution centers and warehouses, most of the folks that are doing the pick and pack and moving the product from point A to point B are hourly employees, and the salary is probably towards the lower level. Though to your point, that a lot of those companies have increased the salary. What we were seeing in the past and we continue to see in those that aren't effective, is let's say I interview someone for a role in the distribution center, and that's on a Monday and they still haven't heard back in two weeks, or they hear back eight days later that says, yes, you're going to get hired. And here you have to go for a drug screen and all this other stuff, and it has to be done in sequence. What we're finding is people that are at that level of pay cannot afford to go without a paycheck for that long. And businesses that are able to shrink that ten days, two weeks time between interview and offer down to five, down to three. I heard an ad for Amazon the other day that you don't even have to come in for an interview. You just can show up. I'm not advocating that, by the way, but I'm just saying that those that doable it's doable shortening, shortening it and not making those things like the background check and the drug test sequential. You know, put all that together, you know, so that because the folks that are in some of those roles really can't wait that long for a paycheck.

[0:15:37] Carol Ventresca: You're literally looking at somebody who could miss two, three, maybe four paychecks. Yeah, if they're if they are used to a weekly pay, they can't wait a month. There's rent to be paid and everything else.

[0:15:49] Kelly Fuller: They can't absolutely. And back to the transportation and childcare conversation. You know, transportation can be a barrier and can be expensive. And if they're having to pay for that, whether it's gasoline or the bus or whatever, and waiting on a paycheck. So some of our businesses that are figuring this out are not seeing the negative effects that some of the others who haven't figured it out yet, they're getting people. And the other side benefit of that, I believe, is they're whether it's intentional or it's a byproduct, they're developing better cultures. When they're becoming more employee centric about what does the employee need, their culture starts to improve.

[0:16:31] Carol Ventresca: Kelly there is a constant need for evaluating costs of business. We understand employers have to live within what they are bringing in to their companies. Payroll is always the biggest issue. It's always likely the largest piece of a budget for a company. When companies were getting money from the government during the pandemic, that was helping pad that a bit and helping the employer have more flexibility on salary levels. Okay, now that money is gone, what are employers saying about salary levels? Many of them who went up to help people during the pandemic have brought their salary levels down. That's not going to help.

[0:17:15] Kelly Fuller: No, that's not going to help. And I think what we're seeing is businesses really rethinking how the work gets done. How many people do I actually have to have on board to get this work done? I was listening to a very interesting conversation on NPR on the drive over here, and they were talking about call centers and bots and interacting with websites to get information. And the lament from many people that are customers are saying, I'm having to wait online for we're all hearing we have extraordinarily long wait times when we call in. So what they were saying is really rethinking how that work gets done. They want to make sure that a bot or someone can answer a question like, where do I go to pay my bill? Or what's my actual due date? Where if they have more complex issues giving the control to the customer to say, I want to be able to talk to an actual live person. So I think we're seeing more of that in the business world where it's like, what can I do through AI? What can I do through other ways of getting business done and who really needs to be here and what roles really need to be filled. So I think we might see, I'm hoping that it's not just lowering the salary, because I think that causes a whole lot of other ills back to transportation and childcare and rent payments, but maybe rethinking, like how the work gets done, how it gets delivered. Where can AI play a part?

[0:18:43] Carol Ventresca: Here I have this funny story, and it goes back several years, but artificial intelligence can work for you and it.

[0:18:52] Kelly Fuller: Can work against you.

[0:18:54] Carol Ventresca: We will have some conversation today about the whole applicant tracking processes. One of the things I've always said to employers, if you create some kind of technology for customers to use or potential applicants to use, or what, try it yourself, because it likely doesn't work, and it certainly is not going to work the way you want. So if you go into a fast food restaurant and they want you to do your order online before you get to pay, there's a line to do that electronic. And so I just walk around that line and go to the clerk and put my order in. And you're like, really? How is this making it better?

[0:19:39] Kelly Fuller: Yeah, that's an excellent point. And I was in a conversation recently with a company that was trying to find roofers, and they're a construction building company. And one of the things that they realized was their application process, their online application process, was making everybody who worked for the company, regardless if you're up on the roof putting shingles down or you're sitting in the accounting office, go through the same application. So some of the questions that were being asked, they had this epiphany of, why am I asking someone who's going to be a roofer? Some of these questions that I would also be asking someone in a different role and really said, is that really necessary? And is there something we can do in the competency based space to have someone prove that they can do the job that we're asking them to do? So that was kind of a really interesting moment for me because I thought, yeah, how many of us are going through? I had the personal experience myself with my former employer moving from a role to a different role. And I'd been with that employer for 15 years. And I still had to go through the application process as if I was someone who had never been in that company. So thinking about it to your point, would you want to go through this process? Would you want to be the applicant who's having to sack do this? No.

[0:21:03] Carol Ventresca: Exactly. When one of the large organizations here in town was having trouble finding people, but my clients were calling and saying, I can't get through their system, I can't get through their online system. Can I just send them my resume? And I'm like, well, yeah, but you're still going to have to go through the system. So I tried doing it myself, and I called our contact there who was a director of HR, and I said, I have three college degrees and I cannot do your online application system. So how do you expect caregivers who have barely out of high school, let alone gone to college, understand what you're asking them? And her answer, which I thought was also interesting, when the system was chosen for that organization, the technology folks picked it. The HR folks had nothing to do with choosing which system. Now, I think that's gotten better, but again, it goes to the notion of don't assume because you're using technology, the technology is going to give you what you actually are hoping what you've paid for it to give you. What's the old saying about technology? Garbage in, garbage out.

[0:22:13] Kelly Fuller: All right, yeah.

[0:22:15] Brett Johnson: Let's go back to what you mentioned earlier about the hiring process and the abundance of special populations. Really focusing on and targeting the candidates that are more likely to be immigrants, non English speakers, older adults, minority members, tons and tons of different groups that we don't really think about. What are the barriers that must be addressed for an employer to reach them?

[0:22:43] Kelly Fuller: No, that's a great question, Brett. I think some of the ones that we mentioned, I'll use the refugee and immigrant population for a minute. Certainly transportation. A lot of people who are new here, especially as immigrants, don't have a driver's license, they may not have access to an automobile. Childcare sometimes can be a real issue, too, because it's an issue for everyone. And if I'm brand new, trying to navigate a new space, a new landscape, in addition to that, obviously language can be a significant barrier, and I just have to applaud. We have some business members in the community who've really done great work in that space. So I'll give a shout out to our friends at Amerisource Bergen and Frank DeSenzo, who's the director of operations there. They're in Lockbourne. Distribution center. They move life saving pharmaceuticals like insulin. So if he doesn't have people to move the drugs to the end user, there can be catastrophic results. So Frank came to us at the Chamber, and we connected him to Jewish Family Services and to Chris community, refugee and immigration services. And together, what Frank has done with those agencies. It's really about making those connections with those agencies that have the trust of the communities they serve.

[0:24:02] Kelly Fuller: And what Frank did was he asked the question, like, what would it take? And he realized that things as basic as changing a shift so there were a lot of women that came forward from the refugee and immigrant population to work at Lockborn at Amersource Bergen, and they were struggling with the 08:00 start time because getting kiddos on the school bus. So Frank changed it to 830, and suddenly that problem is resolved. He realized that it can be a real challenge for, again, back to that time period, he went from a ten day from the interview to three days to offering someone the job. So back to that challenge of can people afford to go that long without a paycheck? So he's resolved that he's done things like that that are really answering how they're solving a barrier. He's gone above and beyond, though. The other things that he's done is when you walk in the door of a Marisourcebury and you see a flag of every nation that's represented on the floor. So when someone walks in, they either recognize they belong there because there are other folks here, or they can't wait to say, can you put up my flag, too? So he's also, instead of pizza in the break room on Fridays, we've got a large Nepali Bhutanese community. Let's bring in food from the restaurants that you prefer. So he's changing culture at the same time. So I think we just have to be creative and we have to be more, again, employee centric. We're in that market right now. We can't sit back and not change.

[0:25:36] Brett Johnson: What you just gave as examples are so easy to do. It's just recognizing. And sometimes the recognition is the hardest part.

[0:25:43] Kelly Fuller: Absolutely.

[0:25:43] Brett Johnson: Implementation is like, well, if that's the problem, half hour difference, start at 830.

[0:25:48] Kelly Fuller: Yeah.

[0:25:49] Brett Johnson: Bottom line, it is the recognition process.

[0:25:52] Kelly Fuller: It really is. And it starts with asking the question. So sometimes the business might go, oh, well, you're not coming in. Well, let me just give you $8 more an hour. Or, we're trying to figure out what is the problem without saying, what would it take to keep you here, because we want you here.

[0:26:08] Carol Ventresca: And that it's. The listening and what I loved about your example too. Frank asked the Chamber for information, help, and assistance. The Chamber is an incredible resource, and it doesn't have to be just the Columbus Chamber. There are local chambers all over central Ohio, and if they can't help you, they know who will be able to help you. There are resources out there to help employers, nonprofit organizations, government offices. We used to be housed near the OD folks state of Ohio, the Opportunities for Ohioans with Disabilities. They have programs for employers to help you. If your person is site impaired, they can bring in equipment to help that person. There are things that can be done, but you have to be willing to ask the question, willing to listen to the answers, and willing to be creative and try to make those little tiny adjustments, because it's not always just throwing money at something.

[0:27:06] Kelly Fuller: Absolutely. And it's not that people are going to say, no, I don't want extra money, but the reality is, if I don't have childcare, you could pay me whatever per hour, I'm not going to be able to make it to the jobs. I'm seeing more and more of a focus on culture. And like I said, either it's become intentional on behalf of the employers, or they're changing culture kind of as a byproduct just by asking those questions and changing some of the ways that they're doing business well.

[0:27:34] Brett Johnson: And I think also the term culture, at least I have been thinking of it in such a bigger scope than what you've described. But those little pieces do change a culture. It's not that, okay, we need to change everything in here. Change the culture. So you're just doing it bit by bit, and all of a sudden you're becoming representative of your community and just looking at the word culture a little bit differently.

[0:27:56] Kelly Fuller: Yeah. And I think, again, in this particular marketplace, when employees, job seekers have choices, they're looking for that they're out looking at your website before they even decide to make an application. They're going to look to see, what does your website look like? What do you say you value? Do you talk about things where you've struggled and how you've overcome them? Because that vulnerable orientation to the world is resonating with people.

[0:28:27] Carol Ventresca: What do the pictures look like that are on your website?

[0:28:29] Kelly Fuller: 100%.

[0:28:30] Carol Ventresca: We dealt with that with older adults all the time. And if an employer only has 18 year olds on their website, no older adult is going to think they're going to be welcome.

[0:28:39] Kelly Fuller: Yeah. You know, a lot of companies have diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, which is which is fantastic. We do at the Chamber as well. And I read an article recently that 66% of CEOs that have started a dei program, or 66% of CEOs that this particular magazine interviewed had started a dei program. Of that 66%, only 8% considered an older workforce. As part of a diversity, equity, and inclusion initiative. It was focused on other things that reflect diversity. So, yes, to your point, are older people represented? Am I seeing someone who may be a part of the OD community on the website? That's important. That's important to people. And you're probably losing people you don't even know you're losing because of the way you're showing up either on the website or in your marketing material.

[0:29:34] Carol Ventresca: Kelly, that was a great example of bringing in new clients. Have you talked to employers and found some ideas, best practices for retaining their employees?

[0:29:46] Kelly Fuller: Yeah. So the question I think everyone. Is asking. And when I say everyone now, I'm referring to the job seeker and the employee. They're asking this as early as the interview. What are my opportunities for growth and development with your organization? So retention, when we think about retaining this hard one employee that we have because it took us a while to get them, they really want to know, how are you going to help me grow and develop? And we had an event last week about culture in the workplace, and we were talking about asking the question to the employee, what do you like? What do you want to do? Where do you see yourself? How do you want to grow? And then you look at your business needs, and where do those things intersect? So it's not that we can't find a place for people that are currently working with us. We want to be able to figure out, what do we need as a company and how do we help that person get there if that's really what they want. Sometimes we make the assumption that everyone that comes in here wants some sort of upward trajectory.

[0:30:42] Kelly Fuller: That's not always the case, but if it is, what are their ultimate goals, and how does that support ours? And connecting to the great educational resources we have in the community is good too, for upskilling and continued growth.

[0:30:56] Brett Johnson: Yeah, well, regardless of what it's called for the terms quiet quitting or acting your wage, it is difficult to engage individuals when the workload just doesn't stop, and increasing salaries are just not possible. How do employers stop this train wreck from derailing their business?

[0:31:13] Kelly Fuller: Oh, my gosh. Check in, check in, check in. Talk to your people. Whether it's asking that question, how are you doing? What do you need from me? Am I serving you as your employer in a way that I need to be serving you? Am I giving you everything you need in order to be successful? And sometimes as employers, we shy away from that because maybe we kind of have a feeling. It's not a good question to ask, but I would encourage people. Even if you think you might get not the best answer, you're going to get information that you might be able to solve a problem. That breaks my heart when I read those things about the silent, the resignation, the quiet quitting. And we have an opportunity to engage people to ask them a question, how are you doing? What can I do to make your work experience a better one?

[0:31:59] Brett Johnson: I could see as a small business as well, too. And again, small being maybe it's five employees or whatever. I think employees want to know where the company is going to and maybe understanding why the workload is becoming a little bit heavier or heavier. What's the timeline of when this will be taken off my plate? Are you hiring more people to help out down the road? When we can, again, not necessarily pinning you to the wall that, hey, you said last month we're going to do this, but I think everybody kind of wants to know where's the company going? How is this workload that now has asked of me, how long is it going to last?

[0:32:35] Kelly Fuller: Yeah. And I know this is easier to say sometimes than to do, but really be honest with people. If this is the pace, this is the pace. And if I can't do anything about it, tell people the truth, whether it's in the interview phase or to your point, I've got an incumbent worker who's going, we've been told it's going to slow down for the last six months, and we're still chugging along here and it's a challenge. But if we aren't honest with people and we don't kind of share what the reality is, I think that's where we run into a lot of trouble.

[0:33:07] Carol Ventresca: It would seem to me that if the employer and the employees have an open communication line, it's not always going to be perfect on either side, but at least a level of understanding that those employees are going to tell their friends, hey, I work for a great person, and that's going to bring in new talent. So there's an advantage to an employer being willing to listen and try to accommodate the people that they have, knowing there's potential for new folks coming through.

[0:33:35] Kelly Fuller: I agree 100%. I think that communication, that trust, that's built and used to be. When I first started in the world of work decades ago, we were discouraged from talking about things in the office. We were discouraged about sharing our concerns or asking for help. Asking for help was looked at as a weakness, and we still have kind of some residual of that thinking. And what I have come to realize is both as an employee myself and as someone who helps employers when leaders can share their own experience, when they can be vulnerable, when they can say, maybe, hey, we messed up on that. You know, maybe I shouldn't have had you working, like, seven straight days, you know, two weeks in a row. This is how we're going to change. This is how we're going to do it differently, but do it honestly. I think, you know, that vulnerability of saying, I don't always know all the answers. I'm working at this too. We're in this together. We're better together. That's how I think you start to build that kind of I don't want to call it loyalty because I really don't even like that phrase anymore. I don't feel like we should have people just feel like they should stay someplace out of a sense of loyalty.

[0:34:44] Kelly Fuller: You know, we we should be developing better relationships through communication and honesty and leading with vulnerability.

[0:34:51] Carol Ventresca: Kelly's getting out her crystal ball and telling us what is 2023 going to bring?

[0:34:57] Kelly Fuller: Oh, wow. I think we're going to see a continuation of businesses really reevaluating the workplace and their workforce. I think we're seeing more businesses. I shared the story of Amerisource Bergen. I think we're seeing more businesses moving that direction towards employee centric practices and hiring. In fact, I probably a couple of times a month we'll have a business or a chamber member reach out and say, I heard this story about this guy down at Lockbourne. Can you connect us? Because we want to learn more. So I think that leads me to the next thing. I think we're seeing businesses who maybe in the past didn't want to share with one another, kind of collaborate because we have to, right. We have to figure out how to resolve some of these issues together. So an example of that might be businesses that are located close by one another, working together to resolve a transportation issue or coming up with a way to incentivize childcare so that that's something that they can come up with together. Because maybe we're just down the block from one another and we're small businesses, but it's four or five of us and we can do more collaboratively than we could do individually, right?

[0:36:04] Brett Johnson: Yeah. There are a ton of programs and services available to both job seekers and employers, such as government training programs or nonprofit career and job search services. Do you have any recommendations for our listeners on the value of such programs?

[0:36:19] Kelly Fuller: Yeah, I think yes, there are a lot of them, and we are blessed in this area to have so many. I think from an employer perspective, it's always great to see things like Tech Cred, which is training resources for businesses. It's actually managed out of the Governor's Office of Workforce Transformation. So this is where a business can say, I've got a worker already on staff or I'm ready to hire somebody, but they need a skill. We talked about a skill gap. There are certificates and trainings out there through local providers that that skill gap can be addressed and that person can get the training that they need. So that's one, I think. Tech cred. Again, that's a state program. I mentioned Jewish Family Services and Crisps for the refugee and immigrant communities. They have great training programs for those communities that they serve, but really also lean into your local Career Tech Ed offices as well. I mentioned OTC's, Ohio Technical centers. If you're an adult and you're looking to either get back into the world of work or this is your first foray into it, there's a lot of training that's available that is Pell eligible. So a lot of folks don't know that adult Ed, if it's 600 hours or more of a program, a person can get Pell Grants just like if they're going to a college or university. So there are lots of resources, I think, locally that can help with that.

[0:37:37] Carol Ventresca: And we're going to have some information included in our show notes because your local libraries have lots and lots of information. The Columbus Public Library has free coursera courses, which is normally there's a fee, and there are thousands of courses. The other thing too, to remember for job applicants is your Ohio Means Jobs website. And go in there and create your profile. There's training online that you can take advantage of as well as going to your local job center and getting information and either workshops or help from one of the career counselors there. So for applicants and for employers, there are places to go and make those connections. And employers, too, think about working with the job centers in terms of small individualized hiring events to help because their information goes out all over the state. So there are opportunities there, it says.

[0:38:38] Kelly Fuller: And here in Franklin County, franklin County, Ohio Means Jobs office over at 1111 East Broad Street is a perfect example of serving those job seekers and helping them resolve barriers and get training and resumes ready. And they invite employers in to kind of be, let's meet together. Let's have the job seekers and the employers together. So again, utilize those resources. They're right here.

[0:38:59] Carol Ventresca: And we are really lucky in Ohio and in central Ohio having a lot of resources. But if you're someplace else, you're listening to this podcast and someplace else, the organizations that we're talking about at the government level are all over the country, and we will also have the connections to whichever of your labor agencies for your state are connected to that. So there are places to go for information that employers need in terms of particularly in terms of their recruiting.

[0:39:31] Kelly Fuller: Definitely. Okay.

[0:39:34] Carol Ventresca: Kelly, we always say this with everybody. The time just flies by in our conversation and you've given us so much information. But last words of wisdom for both our employers and job seekers.

[0:39:46] Kelly Fuller: Oh, gosh, it's been the theme, I guess, of our conversation is be curious. Ask the questions. If you're an employer and you're trying to figure out what it takes to bring someone on board, what it takes to keep someone, ask them. Ask the questions. And if you are a job seeker and you're not sure if this is the role for you or the company, for you or where you want to apply, ask the questions not just of the employer, but of other people that work there, of other people in the community. We have all sorts of resources like glass door and everything else that's out there. Really do some research. So I'd say continue to be curious. And from that curiosity, listen and learn.

[0:40:23] Brett Johnson: Thanks to Kelly from the Columbus Chamber of Commerce for being with us today, listeners. Thank you for being part of the program, too. Don't forget to check out show notes for contact information and resources that we are going to be talking about and have talked about in this podcast and even more that's going to be on our website as well at lookingforward our way.com and we look forward to hearing your feedback on this in any of our other podcast episodes.