Speaker: 00:00:00

One factor that must

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absolutely be present is safety.

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My students are not going to learn

well at all.

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If they come into the classroom

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and they're thinking,

am I safe with miss Kuhns?

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Is she going to yell at me?

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Is she going to get

mad at me. Is she going to.

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They're not going to learn.

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It's that amygdala, that part of our brain

that wants to keep us

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safe is constantly scanning for danger,

danger, danger.

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Ruth Anna, welcome to the podcast.

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You've been an educator for a while,

and there's a

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there's a lot of different areas.

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We could go with this,

but I want to drill in on a couple things.

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Specifically in the field of education

that that you're involved with.

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But before we get too specific,

how many years have you been an educator?

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This is year 17 year 17. Okay. Okay.

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So so one of the areas

when we had had a phone call before this

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and we were talking about,

okay, what are the things we can discuss?

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You mentioned a term

I had never heard before.

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Neurodivergence.

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So can you tell us what that even is,

and why does having

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an understanding of that term apply

or matter to us, and how does that affect

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how we view education? Sure.

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That is such a great question.

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So neurodivergence is kind of an umbrella

term.

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It's a big word right now in education.

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And it's

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it's the umbrella term

for learning differences.

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So you think autistic students,

dyslexic students.

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So. Yeah, it's a it's

a big word in education right now.

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So if you think of your student

who learns in a typical way.

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So let's say you know, you as a teacher

are lecturing and they're taking notes.

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They're listening to your lectures.

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They're reading and discovering

information that’s your neurotypical

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student. Okay.

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So not all of our students

learn in the same way, and we know that.

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But I think in the past, we've kind of

treated education as a one size fits all.

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And it's it's not that.

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So your neurodivergent student

is your student

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who learns in ways

other than what are typical.

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And so as educators, you know,

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if we have classes of 22 or 24 students,

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you are not going to

just have neurotypical learners.

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And so how can

we accommodate our students?

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Who are struggling?

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So that's that's what

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I mean

when I talk about neurodivergent students

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and the that, that makes a lot of sense.

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And I can immediately

see why understanding

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this is actually a pretty big deal.

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Or it is important if we want to provide,

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a reasonable education for these children.

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Wow. So this is a

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area that you have experience

in, like you work with neurodivergent.

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So earlier in my, in my teaching career,

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I didn't

you know, really understand these things.

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And so I'm looking back

at almost two decades

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of being in the classroom and seeing,

you know,

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there were a lot of students

that got missed in my classroom

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because I just simply didn't

understand what they needed.

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And I know sometimes

in our private schools,

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we don't always have

all the resources that we need.

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And so I think we're doing better

at thinking about how can we

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how can we use our resources well,

but there's still a long way to go.

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So I currently am pursuing a Bachelor

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of Education in special education

from Liberty University.

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And part of the reason that,

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I was interested in that

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major is because I really wanted to learn

more about diverse learners.

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Like,

how can I service all of my students?

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How can I be responsible for all of them?

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And I realized, like as a homeroom

teacher, you can't do it all by yourself.

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You need lots of support.

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And so, Yeah, I've.

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I've seen how having more understanding

can really be empowering, because

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if we're not understanding

the learning difference, well,

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we can actually end up,

doing more harm to our students. And.

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Yeah, that's not what we want to.

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That's not what we want to do.

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Yeah.

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That does make sense, though,

because there is so much variety

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within between different humans.

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Let's just say very broadly

speaking. Right.

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So it would kind of make sense.

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Like we learn in different ways. Right.

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But I, I see the, the challenge here

because if you're

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okay, you have your classroom,

you have 20 students.

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It's it would be so easy for someone

to get missed in that process.

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Yeah, right.

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Yeah. Wow.

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This is this is, this is a challenge.

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I think some of this is to just

the complexity of the human brain.

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Is that an element that comes in here

where we don't fully understand

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all the different dynamics that are

involved, is how does that play into this?

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Absolutely, yes.

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So let's let's talk about dyslexia

for a little bit.

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So there's been a

lot of myths around dyslexia.

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I'm thinking I

should have checked the research on this,

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but it's about 20% of your students

that it's going to affect.

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20 percent?

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That's a lot more than I thought.

Yes. Yes.

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So as we take apart the term

a little bit dis,

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you know, having difficulty

with lexia language.

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So it is actually a,

It is a language processing disorder.

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Okay.

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So for example,

dyslexic students are trying to use

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a different part of their brain to read

than what your neurotypical students will.

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And so understanding

that can be can be really helpful.

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Well,

just acknowledging the complexities here.

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I mean, we're talking the human brain,

right?

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So. Right.

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But again, some of the challenges,

probably because we don't fully understand

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all of these things. right? Yes.

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So if you have your neurotypical student

who's learning to read,

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they're actually using the back left

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part of their brain,

like, behind your ear.

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Okay. So that's that's typical.

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A dyslexic student

tends to use more of the right front part.

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And so contrary to

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myths is that it's a vision problem.

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My dyslexic students see backwards.

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Well, they don't actually see backwards

what they what they will tend to do

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as a coping skill, as though

they will tend to memorize word shapes.

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Because hearing sounds, hearing

differences

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in sounds is so complicated.

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So if I give you the word sand right now,

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you can tell me

how many sounds are in sand, right?

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And so, you know, we have s a n d.

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Sand.

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They might not actually hear four sounds.

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They may only hear three s a nd.

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And so part of retraining their brain

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is training them

how to listen for differences in sound.

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Yeah. Okay.

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This is starting to make a lot more sense.

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Wow. Because again if you have a one size

fits all though, someone like that

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just you just kind of

get lost in the shuffle. Right.

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So typically what will happen

with our students who have dyslexia.

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They they learn

how to cope in these situations.

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So you know, first grade, second grade,

they can kind of

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get by by memorizing word shapes.

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They hit third grade.

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And third grade is a lot more

about reading to learn.

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Not learning to read.

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And so it's kind of

they sort of hit a magic wall.

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I would say, where you're not going to be

able to get by just by memorizing shapes.

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And so some of my job,

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as a learning support tutor

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is assisting them through that, literally

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helping them to rewire their brain

so they can learn to read.

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Oh that's that's kind of wild.

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That's actually kind of fantastic though,

that enough research has been done

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that we have

at least this level of understanding

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compared to,

I don't know, 100 years ago or something.

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Wow, that's that's kind of It is.

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It is very fascinating.

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So, this is not a vision

problem students aren't seeing backwards.

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but my my my job

is, is to help them, develop skills

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to learn to read well.

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So would you let me do

a little experiment?

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Yes, of course. Okay.

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So one of the things

if I don't understand dyslexia, well

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I can

end up doing some pretty harmful things.

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So you're a good reader, right?

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I think so. Yeah. Okay.

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I think so. Yeah. Okay.

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Well, I'm wondering

if you would read this sentence for me.

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Okay.

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It's not difficult, and I'm sure

you've seen all these words before.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Tell me what you're seeing.

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You're a good reader Reagan!

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That's wild!

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You need to try harder.

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So what word are you seeing?

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are those complete words or are they.

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Or are they, split apart?

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It’s a complete sentence.

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You've seen these words many times.

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So start here.

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So start here.

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Oh, this this.

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Okay. I'm trying to find the pattern here.

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Gotcha, keep going.

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This Actual.

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Actual, look you missed a word.

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This is.

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This is actually.

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Quite...

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Quite easy to decode.

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Oh, wow. Were you working hard?

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Yeah, but, like, in a different way.

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Right?

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Now, if I would have shown you the

sentence, if I would have shown it to you

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like this, I thought I had it on the back

there like you normally see it.

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You would have been able to read it.

No problem.

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This is easy to decode, but because.

200

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Because you're adding the layers,

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like almost like the levels, my brain

immediately said, this is scrambled.

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Yes. It's not, but it's.

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That's wild.

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So you see, this

gives you a little bit of an experience,

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what it's like to try to read

as a dyslexic student.

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What do you do

when the letters move around?

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You know, and or,

you know, if I'm not used to the letters

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being, Right, in layers,

I guess, layers levels?

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anyways. That's wild.

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Yeah. So you take you

take a lack of understanding into this.

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If you're one of my reading students,

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you know,

I say, Reagan, you need to try harder.

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You can look at the word.

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Well You are looking at the word you are

trying, and then you have the whole thing.

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Well, Reagan,

you need to study this with me at recess.

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And you're like, oh, no,

I was already working so hard.

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Now I need to stay in at recess.

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Okay.

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And things just build

and then the behavior

220

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starts happening,

and we want to try to manage the behavior.

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And there's all these layers

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to just not simply understanding

what's actually going on.

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So that's an example of how

I can cause trauma

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by lack of understanding,

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Well and that does seem to to tie

in very closely

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with another one

that I want to have you describe a bit,

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because when we were on the phone before

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we were talking through like okay

what are we going to cover on the podcast.

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Use a term I never heard before.

Another one had never heard.

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And that was academic trauma.

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And I I'm already seeing how I okay,

I think I'm seeing how this might start

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going together

with what you were just saying.

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So yeah.

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Tell me about what

what is academic trauma.

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Define that for us. Yes.

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Okay.

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So let's take the let's take the phrase

apart a little bit.

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So academic

obviously has to do with school learning.

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And trauma is a word

that gets thrown around a lot these days.

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But I'm just going to try to define it

a little bit for how I'm using it

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in this conversation.

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So trauma can be a life threatening event,

like a car accident.

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Maybe you almost died.

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You had you lost a parent.

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You witnessed a shooting, abuse, neglect,

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like all of those things

I would call big T trauma.

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They're life threatening events.

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And the person is overwhelmed.

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Does not feel resourced

as to, how to deal with a situation.

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So feeling overwhelmed, feeling helpless.

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Those are often, symptoms of trauma.

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So now if you have,

you know, a one case where,

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I'm just going

to say you yelled at your daughter, okay?

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She's probably not going to develop trauma

over that, but,

255

00:12:59,278 --> 00:13:02,114

you know, you yell at your daughter

every day.

256

00:13:02,114 --> 00:13:04,408

You know, it becomes verbally abusive.

257

00:13:04,408 --> 00:13:08,996

It becomes an overwhelming situation where

your daughter is going to feel helpless.

258

00:13:09,747 --> 00:13:10,247

Okay.

259

00:13:10,247 --> 00:13:12,291

So so we think about trauma.

260

00:13:12,291 --> 00:13:16,462

We we we know that by itself,

the event by itself

261

00:13:16,462 --> 00:13:19,507

might not be threatening,

but it was impactful.

262

00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:22,051

And one of the things

that we're learning about trauma

263

00:13:22,051 --> 00:13:25,054

is how it imprints on our nervous system.

264

00:13:26,096 --> 00:13:26,555

Okay.

265

00:13:26,555 --> 00:13:31,227

So let's say with our students

now, let's say they have dyslexia

266

00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:35,606

or you know, they're autistic

and they're misunderstood.

267

00:13:35,898 --> 00:13:39,443

They come to school day after day

after day after day.

268

00:13:39,443 --> 00:13:40,861

They're misunderstood.

269

00:13:40,861 --> 00:13:44,824

That creates this academic trauma

for them.

270

00:13:44,824 --> 00:13:47,535

Does that make sense? It it really does.

271

00:13:48,619 --> 00:13:50,704

Would you be able to get it a bit

practical?

272

00:13:50,704 --> 00:13:54,750

Yes. Like, I don't know if maybe you have

some examples if you can share those.

273

00:13:55,543 --> 00:13:58,504

I, wow. I'm already seen,

274

00:13:58,504 --> 00:14:01,340

already thinking of some examples in my,

my own mind as well.

275

00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:02,591

But anyways, yes.

276

00:14:02,591 --> 00:14:03,300

Go ahead. Yes.

277

00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,095

Let me share a story with you.

278

00:14:06,095 --> 00:14:10,432

I was working with a

with a boy in middle school.

279

00:14:10,432 --> 00:14:13,978

He was dyslexic, and he had ADHD,

280

00:14:14,854 --> 00:14:17,523

and he was on my caseload.

281

00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:22,319

And so I began working with him,

and I knew that he had transferred

282

00:14:22,319 --> 00:14:24,905

to our school,

283

00:14:24,905 --> 00:14:27,491

in the, you know, recent past.

284

00:14:27,491 --> 00:14:30,661

And we're about two weeks

into the school year and

285

00:14:31,662 --> 00:14:36,125

he made a comment to me and I said,

286

00:14:38,335 --> 00:14:40,504

that must have been difficult.

287

00:14:40,504 --> 00:14:44,884

And that validation of his experience

opened it up for him.

288

00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:49,555

And he began talking about how traumatic

his past school had been.

289

00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:54,059

And I sat there and listened to him,

290

00:14:54,059 --> 00:14:58,689

and I said, Johnny,

that must have been really hard.

291

00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,609

And he said, it was.

292

00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:04,278

But that began,

293

00:15:04,278 --> 00:15:08,198

the process of of a friendship

and a real connection between us.

294

00:15:08,908 --> 00:15:11,952

And one of the things

that I told him, I said,

295

00:15:14,288 --> 00:15:17,291

you know, at our current school,

296

00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:20,252

we are going to do the best

297

00:15:20,252 --> 00:15:23,756

that we can to accommodate

the way your brain works.

298

00:15:23,923 --> 00:15:27,760

We want to make this a safe environment

for you to learn.

299

00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,763

We're not going to do this perfectly,

but that's our goal.

300

00:15:30,971 --> 00:15:35,517

And you know, students are not

they're not concerned about us,

301

00:15:36,226 --> 00:15:41,065

having every, or they're not concerned

about every interaction being perfect.

302

00:15:41,482 --> 00:15:43,651

They want to be affirmed, I should say.

303

00:15:43,651 --> 00:15:46,654

They need to be affirmed and validated.

304

00:15:48,364 --> 00:15:53,243

So as he was opening up to me

about his past story,

305

00:15:53,702 --> 00:15:58,540

he very vividly

described his experience of depression.

306

00:15:58,832 --> 00:16:01,835

So think of this academic trauma

that he's facing.

307

00:16:01,835 --> 00:16:02,711

This is middle school.

308

00:16:02,711 --> 00:16:05,422

This is a middle school boy.

309

00:16:05,422 --> 00:16:08,425

This is a seventh grader.

310

00:16:08,676 --> 00:16:12,680

And I asked him about

it a little bit and he said,

311

00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:16,684

well, depression

312

00:16:16,684 --> 00:16:19,687

lasts all the way home from school.

313

00:16:20,646 --> 00:16:23,649

It lasts the whole way

through the weekend.

314

00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:27,111

It lasts

315

00:16:27,111 --> 00:16:29,905

all through the holidays.

316

00:16:29,905 --> 00:16:32,116

And I just felt really sad about that.

317

00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:33,534

Like,

318

00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:37,997

we don't want our teens to be having

these experiences of depression

319

00:16:38,706 --> 00:16:43,877

and and my, my goal is not to shame

his teachers or his former school.

320

00:16:44,545 --> 00:16:49,049

But my point is,

can we have some understanding around,

321

00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:53,012

you know, his his learning differences

322

00:16:53,012 --> 00:16:56,849

and try to accommodate

that and create a safe environment?

323

00:16:56,849 --> 00:17:00,144

Because for someone

who's experienced trauma,

324

00:17:01,645 --> 00:17:03,230

One factor that must

325

00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:06,233

absolutely be present is safety.

326

00:17:06,817 --> 00:17:10,487

My students are not going to learn

well at all.

327

00:17:10,779 --> 00:17:12,948

If they come into the classroom

328

00:17:12,948 --> 00:17:15,409

and they're thinking,

am I safe with miss Kuhns?

329

00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:16,535

Is she going to yell at me?

330

00:17:16,535 --> 00:17:19,163

Is she going to get

mad at me. Is she going to.

331

00:17:20,164 --> 00:17:21,165

They're not going to learn.

332

00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:24,251

It's that amygdala, that part of our brain

that wants to keep us

333

00:17:24,251 --> 00:17:26,879

safe is constantly scanning for danger,

danger, danger.

334

00:17:26,879 --> 00:17:27,463

Okay.

335

00:17:27,546 --> 00:17:31,884

So my goal as a tutor, when I get

a new student who doesn't know me at all,

336

00:17:32,092 --> 00:17:35,387

is to establish

that relationship of rapport

337

00:17:35,387 --> 00:17:38,390

and safety.

338

00:17:38,849 --> 00:17:41,894

I think safety is a really key

piece there.

339

00:17:42,394 --> 00:17:44,480

Yeah. Right.

340

00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,107

I wonder.

341

00:17:47,107 --> 00:17:50,110

things, things like academic trauma

342

00:17:51,111 --> 00:17:54,114

could potentially be much more widespread

than we realize.

343

00:17:55,199 --> 00:17:56,617

You know.

344

00:17:56,617 --> 00:17:59,119

It's because it's just like,

I don't know, you

345

00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,247

just kind of go through the day to day

and, you know what I mean?

346

00:18:02,247 --> 00:18:05,292

It's just getting your routines

and then suddenly, like, you're

347

00:18:05,334 --> 00:18:07,544

mentioning this particular case,

348

00:18:07,544 --> 00:18:11,048

and then you start peeling back

the curtain a bit and seeing how

349

00:18:11,465 --> 00:18:14,802

this student is actually feeling

like, whoa, wait a minute.

350

00:18:14,802 --> 00:18:15,928

That is not good.

351

00:18:15,928 --> 00:18:19,348

You know, and you got to kind of wonder

how many more cases that are like that

352

00:18:19,807 --> 00:18:20,849

that we never hear about.

353

00:18:21,809 --> 00:18:22,559

I'm speculating.

354

00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:25,562

Obviously, I'm not in the field

of education necessarily, but.

355

00:18:25,729 --> 00:18:26,271

Right.

356

00:18:26,271 --> 00:18:30,150

So I think one thing to think about often

357

00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:33,112

at our private schools,

especially if it's a small private school,

358

00:18:34,071 --> 00:18:37,241

they may not

necessarily have like a resource room

359

00:18:37,241 --> 00:18:41,161

or a learning support, room

where you're where

360

00:18:42,204 --> 00:18:44,873

your student is able

to get some one on one tutoring.

361

00:18:44,873 --> 00:18:48,710

So back to my middle school or

some of the ways that we accommodated him,

362

00:18:49,962 --> 00:18:52,589

he caffeine would help his ADHD.

363

00:18:52,589 --> 00:18:55,384

And so he’d eat coffee beans

before he came to my classroom.

364

00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:58,387

And, you know, it was it was wonderful.

365

00:18:58,929 --> 00:19:01,390

Because I'd get, like,

this smell of, like, fresh

366

00:19:01,390 --> 00:19:04,393

ground coffee.

367

00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,396

So it was a positive for both of us.

368

00:19:07,396 --> 00:19:10,190

I was not where I expected that to go.

369

00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:13,193

I'm just saying, Yeah. Possible solution.

370

00:19:13,193 --> 00:19:14,069

Eat some coffee beans.

371

00:19:14,069 --> 00:19:16,405

But, hey, like, I mean, that's.

372

00:19:16,405 --> 00:19:18,157

It sounds like it worked for him.

373

00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:19,867

He was like, a little bit of caffeine.

374

00:19:19,867 --> 00:19:21,326

Just helps me to focus, you know?

375

00:19:21,326 --> 00:19:25,455

And then on days when he would say,

I just can't focus today.

376

00:19:25,706 --> 00:19:26,123

Okay.

377

00:19:26,123 --> 00:19:30,210

I would try to just really back off

and we would just kind of we would slowmo

378

00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:31,879

it or just really go gently.

379

00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:33,755

At it.

380

00:19:33,755 --> 00:19:36,758

The other thing for him

is that reading black

381

00:19:36,842 --> 00:19:39,845

text on a white page

was distracting for him.

382

00:19:40,262 --> 00:19:42,764

And so sometimes overlays will help.

383

00:19:42,764 --> 00:19:44,349

Again,

this is going to vary with your students.

384

00:19:44,349 --> 00:19:46,977

But for him

I would give him like a green overlay.

385

00:19:46,977 --> 00:19:47,853

And it would take away

386

00:19:47,853 --> 00:19:52,107

that contrast was a little easier

on his eyes to actually read.

387

00:19:52,274 --> 00:19:53,901

Oh okay I get that.

388

00:19:53,901 --> 00:19:56,320

That makes sense. Yeah.

389

00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,615

So those are just a couple of practical

things that I, that I'm thinking about.

390

00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,243

The story with, with him.

391

00:20:03,493 --> 00:20:06,496

I felt like had a beautiful ending

392

00:20:06,496 --> 00:20:09,124

the year that he

393

00:20:09,124 --> 00:20:12,127

so I, I worked with him for a year

and at the end of that year,

394

00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:15,380

his mom wrote me this beautiful note,

395

00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:19,343

and she was thanking me

for what I had done for her son.

396

00:20:19,801 --> 00:20:23,680

And her last line in the note was,

thank you for helping him heal.

397

00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,436

And that

that just, like, causes me to worship

398

00:20:29,436 --> 00:20:32,648

like the Lord can take, you know,

399

00:20:33,482 --> 00:20:36,485

my small understanding of these things,

400

00:20:36,735 --> 00:20:40,948

and, and make it into something

really redemptive and restorative.

401

00:20:41,448 --> 00:20:44,451

And so that was a real moment of worship

for me.

402

00:20:45,994 --> 00:20:48,038

so we were looking

at some interesting pieces here

403

00:20:48,038 --> 00:20:51,041

with neurodivergent academic trauma.

404

00:20:52,709 --> 00:20:55,712

You know

especially the theme of safety or.

405

00:20:56,088 --> 00:20:56,421

Yeah.

406

00:20:56,421 --> 00:20:59,716

But yeah safety

like and students need to feel safe

407

00:21:00,008 --> 00:21:02,135

when they're with their teacher etc..

408

00:21:02,135 --> 00:21:06,682

And a piece I'm thinking about is

education can be an amazing experience,

409

00:21:06,682 --> 00:21:06,890

right?

410

00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:10,978

So like, I was homeschooled,

and then went on to Bible school college.

411

00:21:11,436 --> 00:21:14,231

Honestly, I had a great experience

through all of that.

412

00:21:14,231 --> 00:21:15,607

Yeah, I really did.

413

00:21:15,607 --> 00:21:20,028

But I know not everybody has that,

and it's kind of easy to take for granted.

414

00:21:20,195 --> 00:21:20,862

Yeah, I was fine.

415

00:21:20,862 --> 00:21:23,407

Like,

why is it, you know, you just miss it.

416

00:21:23,407 --> 00:21:24,324

Right.

417

00:21:24,324 --> 00:21:27,327

So there are many people

don't have that experience.

418

00:21:27,619 --> 00:21:30,956

And I guess the question I have is,

so how can we create

419

00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:33,959

better educational experiences

for our children?

420

00:21:33,959 --> 00:21:36,461

Which is an enormous question,

and I'm sure we won't answer

421

00:21:36,461 --> 00:21:38,797

all of that right here now,

because every situation is different.

422

00:21:38,797 --> 00:21:40,424

But at least give us some pieces to work

with.

423

00:21:40,424 --> 00:21:43,427

sure. Yes. That is such a good question.

424

00:21:43,719 --> 00:21:44,261

Yeah. Okay.

425

00:21:44,261 --> 00:21:47,264

There's, there's a lot of ways

we could go with this.

426

00:21:47,514 --> 00:21:50,100

But since we're talking around

the academic trauma, the learning

427

00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,103

difference piece, I'm

just I'm going to kind of address that.

428

00:21:53,603 --> 00:21:56,231

So how can we create better experiences?

429

00:21:57,983 --> 00:21:59,359

So I think especially

430

00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,904

if we are in a small school

and we don't have,

431

00:22:03,488 --> 00:22:06,491

all the resources that that are needed.

432

00:22:06,992 --> 00:22:09,995

I think we need to

we need to think creatively.

433

00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,373

Well, maybe get to more of that in our

next episode when we talk about burnout.

434

00:22:14,207 --> 00:22:17,210

But I think, you know,

435

00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:20,630

there's a lot on homeroom teachers and,

436

00:22:22,007 --> 00:22:25,052

you know, let's say that they're teaching

multiple grades,

437

00:22:26,178 --> 00:22:28,472

and have,

you know, a really heavy workload.

438

00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:30,223

They don't have a lot of support.

439

00:22:30,223 --> 00:22:33,226

They're doing just multiple,

440

00:22:33,935 --> 00:22:36,563

you know, pieces with their students,

teaching all the math,

441

00:22:36,563 --> 00:22:38,565

reading Bible, all of that.

442

00:22:38,565 --> 00:22:43,236

I think sometimes our teachers

are so overloaded that they don't have

443

00:22:43,528 --> 00:22:47,866

there's not enough brain space left to

to develop this mindset of curiosity,

444

00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,203

like, well, what is dyslexia, for example?

445

00:22:52,412 --> 00:22:53,747

How can I accommodate that?

446

00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:56,958

Well, my student with, ADHD is doing this,

447

00:22:56,958 --> 00:23:00,170

and you know what's actually going on

with with that behavior.

448

00:23:00,295 --> 00:23:01,254

But I think our teachers

449

00:23:01,254 --> 00:23:04,257

are so overloaded, there's not always

that space to think about it.

450

00:23:05,092 --> 00:23:08,095

So I think we we need to think about

451

00:23:08,303 --> 00:23:11,306

how we can support our, our teachers

better.

452

00:23:12,724 --> 00:23:15,936

So, yeah,

cultivate a mindset of curiosity.

453

00:23:16,603 --> 00:23:18,980

You know, I'm curious about or I'm curious

454

00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:21,983

about what that might mean.

455

00:23:22,067 --> 00:23:25,070

Because behavior is always a language.

456

00:23:28,865 --> 00:23:31,451

So the mindset of curiosity is huge.

457

00:23:31,451 --> 00:23:34,704

I think doing some research,

seeking to understand,

458

00:23:36,623 --> 00:23:37,666

what what would it be

459

00:23:37,666 --> 00:23:40,961

like to, you know, just like the example

I gave you there with dyslexia?

460

00:23:40,961 --> 00:23:43,588

Well,

that that helps us understand a little bit

461

00:23:43,588 --> 00:23:45,465

what it's like to be in their shoes.

462

00:23:47,801 --> 00:23:50,929

I was

actually, I have some friends that I just,

463

00:23:51,138 --> 00:23:55,100

I asked some questions, to them,

just to see what they would have to say

464

00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:56,935

from the parent perspective.

465

00:23:56,935 --> 00:24:02,357

And, I have a friend

who they have some adopted children.

466

00:24:02,691 --> 00:24:06,528

And in one conversation,

I sensed that she was

467

00:24:06,736 --> 00:24:09,739

having some frustration around.

468

00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:12,826

The whole thing

of, like, trying to advocate

469

00:24:12,826 --> 00:24:16,329

for her child, but she wasn't feeling

understood by the teachers.

470

00:24:16,329 --> 00:24:19,207

And so I asked her

a little bit about that.

471

00:24:19,207 --> 00:24:23,253

I said, so what can we do as educators

to make it easier

472

00:24:23,253 --> 00:24:27,382

for you as parents

to advocate for your children and

473

00:24:28,675 --> 00:24:30,802

she said, Ruth Anna,

474

00:24:30,802 --> 00:24:33,805

I don't think anyone has ever asked me

that question.

475

00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:37,601

And I thought, wow.

476

00:24:37,601 --> 00:24:42,939

Then this it showed me

how this conversation is so important.

477

00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:47,027

So It's really important, as

478

00:24:47,027 --> 00:24:52,324

an educator to have a heart of compassion

for our students, that they do feel that

479

00:24:52,324 --> 00:24:57,704

I know we don't we don't always, respond

in the right ways, okay.

480

00:24:57,704 --> 00:25:00,373

But they can feel

if you have a heart of compassion.

481

00:25:00,373 --> 00:25:03,293

Also like having

a heart posture of humility.

482

00:25:03,293 --> 00:25:07,923

So when a parent comes to me, they are

this is their child.

483

00:25:07,923 --> 00:25:09,674

They know how this child works.

484

00:25:09,674 --> 00:25:12,677

Like being being able to hear them.

485

00:25:14,054 --> 00:25:16,806

And, you know,

sometimes they have suggestions

486

00:25:16,806 --> 00:25:20,977

for how how

we can actually help this child thrive.

487

00:25:21,144 --> 00:25:21,895

Okay.

488

00:25:21,895 --> 00:25:26,274

And I know, on the other hand,

sometimes they are so stressed

489

00:25:26,274 --> 00:25:29,069

and so in the moment

that they're just surviving.

490

00:25:29,069 --> 00:25:32,072

So compassion. Humility.

491

00:25:32,155 --> 00:25:35,033

Fostering a classroom

atmosphere that feels safe.

492

00:25:36,576 --> 00:25:37,911

And then

493

00:25:37,911 --> 00:25:41,790

validation and I find validation

for parents who are dealing with children

494

00:25:41,790 --> 00:25:46,169

from hard places is really key too,

because sometimes they need to hear

495

00:25:46,169 --> 00:25:51,758

from another source, like, thank you for

everything you are doing for your child.

496

00:25:52,467 --> 00:25:55,470

And so I think if we can develop this,

497

00:25:55,512 --> 00:26:00,475

this team relationship where I'm working

with the parents, they're working with me.

498

00:26:00,684 --> 00:26:04,145

It's not me against them

or them against me.

499

00:26:05,188 --> 00:26:06,273

Almost.

500

00:26:06,273 --> 00:26:09,192

It seems like you're using terminology

that's collaborative

501

00:26:09,192 --> 00:26:12,070

synergetic.

502

00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:12,946

And so forth.

503

00:26:12,946 --> 00:26:16,116

But it really this sense of there's

almost like a community element as well.

504

00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:17,200

Right?

505

00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,869

Instead of just like I just kind of

506

00:26:19,869 --> 00:26:22,539

doing your thing

and you're doing your thing and so forth.

507

00:26:22,539 --> 00:26:24,416

Right.

508

00:26:24,416 --> 00:26:26,585

There's another piece

that I'm thinking about,

509

00:26:26,585 --> 00:26:29,588

I'm thinking about with this conversation

right now.

510

00:26:29,754 --> 00:26:32,966

And this kind of comes

back to the education one size fits all.

511

00:26:33,216 --> 00:26:37,846

So let's say that you have

a school whose policy is,

512

00:26:39,222 --> 00:26:41,308

okay, well, if you are failing,

513

00:26:41,308 --> 00:26:44,519

if you have a failing grade

in any subject, that means that

514

00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:47,522

that disqualifies you from, let's say,

going on a field trip.

515

00:26:48,565 --> 00:26:49,274

Okay.

516

00:26:49,274 --> 00:26:54,654

So for certain students

who may actually need

517

00:26:54,654 --> 00:26:57,866

that motivation, that can be okay.

518

00:26:58,116 --> 00:27:01,161

Let's say you have a student

who's dealing with a lot of trauma.

519

00:27:01,870 --> 00:27:06,708

And like their brain is just kind of maxed

to say, well, you're failing.

520

00:27:06,708 --> 00:27:08,543

You can't go on the field trip.

521

00:27:08,543 --> 00:27:11,296

I think it's

just a really hurtful response.

522

00:27:11,296 --> 00:27:14,215

Or when parents hear like, well,

523

00:27:14,215 --> 00:27:17,177

we can't bend the rules for your child.

524

00:27:17,927 --> 00:27:20,221

That's the opposite of compassion

525

00:27:20,221 --> 00:27:23,224

and humility and understanding.

526

00:27:24,059 --> 00:27:26,728

That sounds like,

527

00:27:26,728 --> 00:27:27,354

dangerous.

528

00:27:27,354 --> 00:27:30,357

Dangerous

or difficult territory to navigate.

529

00:27:30,357 --> 00:27:31,858

Yeah. What you're describing there.

530

00:27:31,858 --> 00:27:33,193

Yeah. You know. Yes.

531

00:27:34,194 --> 00:27:36,821

There's a thread in that though,

that that stands out to me.

532

00:27:36,821 --> 00:27:38,865

And that's the compassion side of things.

533

00:27:38,865 --> 00:27:40,742

Right. Like,

534

00:27:40,742 --> 00:27:45,705

are we doing these things

ultimately from a spirit of compassion.

535

00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:48,833

Right. Right. Yeah.

536

00:27:49,292 --> 00:27:52,212

You're giving us a lot

to think about in this episode.

537

00:27:52,212 --> 00:27:55,507

Education is, you know, fairly complex.

538

00:27:55,507 --> 00:27:58,468

There's lots of opinions and different

models and ways of doing things.

539

00:27:58,593 --> 00:28:01,596

Of course, we'll never cover

everything on this podcast, but,

540

00:28:02,555 --> 00:28:06,393

kind of tying together the whole package

right of what we've done.

541

00:28:07,143 --> 00:28:10,522

What is one practical thing

that a listener can take from this and,

542

00:28:10,647 --> 00:28:13,775

and take at least one

step in the right direction when it comes

543

00:28:13,775 --> 00:28:17,237

to education, whatever

their role may be in their community.

544

00:28:18,029 --> 00:28:19,989

Oh one thing.

545

00:28:19,989 --> 00:28:22,909

Yeah.

Well you can give us more if you like.

546

00:28:26,955 --> 00:28:30,542

I think be curious,

547

00:28:32,001 --> 00:28:33,586

be a lifetime time learning.

548

00:28:33,586 --> 00:28:34,295

Be a.

549

00:28:34,295 --> 00:28:35,630

Oh let me say that again.

550

00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:38,216

Be a life long learner.

551

00:28:38,216 --> 00:28:40,885

Let's

see if I can get that alliteration there.

552

00:28:40,885 --> 00:28:42,721

I love learning about new things.

553

00:28:42,721 --> 00:28:46,850

And so, you know, in this case,

it may mean learning differences.

554

00:28:47,642 --> 00:28:51,563

It doesn't it doesn't take a lot to just,

you know, learn a little bit,

555

00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:55,108

about how you can help

children who learn differently.

556

00:28:55,108 --> 00:28:58,111

So be curious, be compassionate,

557

00:28:58,194 --> 00:29:01,197

have a stance of humility.

558

00:29:01,322 --> 00:29:04,284

And ultimately it means,

559

00:29:04,451 --> 00:29:09,622

staying connected with the Lord, too,

because we are we're human.

560

00:29:09,622 --> 00:29:11,416

And that's a good thing.

561

00:29:11,416 --> 00:29:14,002

We do. We have our limitations.

562

00:29:14,002 --> 00:29:17,714

And, you know, there are days where

where it's really stressful.

563

00:29:17,714 --> 00:29:19,174

There's a lot on our plate.

564

00:29:19,174 --> 00:29:23,803

And I think in that case, it can be

okay to say, you know what, Lord,

565

00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:27,891

I trust today that your grace is

big enough to cover the gaps.

566

00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:31,352

Again that thread

567

00:29:31,352 --> 00:29:35,648

that keeps coming up through this episode

is the curiosity and the compassion.

568

00:29:35,815 --> 00:29:39,486

These are the things that, that

yeah that's that's really good.

569

00:29:40,111 --> 00:29:43,114

Wow. I feel like

I learned a lot on this one.

570

00:29:43,865 --> 00:29:45,325

There's a lot to think about here.

571

00:29:45,325 --> 00:29:49,287

And I appreciate you

taking the time to share on this, because,

572

00:29:49,329 --> 00:29:53,124

you know, these topics

can be a bit complex and difficult to to,

573

00:29:53,875 --> 00:29:54,959

I don't know, work through.

574

00:29:54,959 --> 00:29:57,587

And. Yeah, I just appreciate

you being willing to do that.

575

00:29:57,587 --> 00:30:00,590

Is there anything else you would like

to leave us as we wrap this episode up?

576

00:30:01,090 --> 00:30:03,384

Thank you so much for inviting me on.

577

00:30:03,384 --> 00:30:06,387

I've just been delighted to be able

to talk

578

00:30:06,387 --> 00:30:09,390

about some of these things

that I’m really passionate about.

579

00:30:09,390 --> 00:30:11,476

Yeah. Well,

thank you so much for sharing. Thank you.

580

00:30:12,811 --> 00:30:15,647

Thanks for listening to this episode

with Ruth Anna.

581

00:30:15,647 --> 00:30:18,358

If you found this interesting,

you should check out this episode we did

582

00:30:18,358 --> 00:30:22,195

a number of years ago with Kyle Stoltzfus

on the topic of higher education.

583

00:30:22,195 --> 00:30:24,781

You can find that

linked in the description down below.

584

00:30:24,781 --> 00:30:29,577

And of course, all our content is on

our website at anabaptistperspectives.org.

585

00:30:29,869 --> 00:30:32,872

Thanks again

and we'll see you in the next episode.

586

00:30:42,882 --> 00:30:43,216

I think so. Yeah. Okay.

587

00:30:43,216 --> 00:30:47,846

Well, I'm wondering

if you would read this sentence for me.

588

00:30:48,012 --> 00:30:50,098

Okay.

589

00:30:50,098 --> 00:30:53,142

It's not difficult, and I'm sure

you've seen all these words before.

590

00:30:53,268 --> 00:30:56,271

Okay.

591

00:30:58,731 --> 00:30:59,232

Okay.

592

00:30:59,232 --> 00:31:02,193

Tell me what you're seeing.

593

00:31:02,819 --> 00:31:05,780

You're a good reader Reagan!

594

00:31:05,780 --> 00:31:07,323

That's wild!

595

00:31:07,323 --> 00:31:10,326

You need to try harder.

596

00:31:10,827 --> 00:31:13,830

So what word are you seeing?

597

00:31:13,913 --> 00:31:15,623

are those complete words or are they.

598

00:31:15,623 --> 00:31:17,792

Or are they, split apart?

599

00:31:17,792 --> 00:31:18,793

It’s a complete sentence.

600

00:31:18,793 --> 00:31:21,546

You've seen these words many times.

601

00:31:21,546 --> 00:31:21,713

So start here.