Suburban Eastern Australia.

An environment that has over time evolved some extraordinarily

unique groups of homo sapiens.

But today we observe a small tribe akin to a group of mere cats that gather together

a top, a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city,

their country, and their world at large.

Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the

Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

Hello and welcome to your listener.

Yes, episode 385.

Closing in on that 400 number.

Anyway, this is a podcast.

We talk about news and politics, sex and religion.

And I of course, am Trevor, aka the I Fist with me as always

from regional Queensland, the regional slum Lord himself.

Scott.

Scott, how are you?

Not bad, thanks.

Trevor.

Goodday, Joe Goodday, Trevor Goodday listeners.

How are you?

Joe?

The tech guy who's singlehandedly has Norfolk Island humming along

on a wonderful broadband that's the pride of the town Evening.

All right, so hello in the chat room to essential Lord Don and

anyone else who manages to join in.

We'll try and incorporate your comments as we talk about stuff, and we're

gonna talk about various bits and pieces and stuff in this episode.

And I can't find a theme for it.

It's just a hotchpotch of different things.

We'll make our way through it.

See what see what happens.

If you are listening through Apple Podcasts or a modern

podcast app, you'll see chapters.

So you can see the list of topics that we are going to talk about.

You could skip some if you don't like the look of them, or you could repeat

ones that you do like the look of.

Anyway, have a look at the chapters.

With a bit of luck, you'll also see some images of some of the graphs

and other charts we might talk about.

So before we get into the topics, I'll just I'll just reflect on a little

personal experience, which I'm starting to do lately just down at at cooling GTA.

And we went out in the morning and examined the water cuz I was

about to do this ocean swim, which I'm becoming quite obsessed about.

And feeding.

Yeah, that's it.

And while we were there there was a guy who'd just come in from the water and

he was showering off and he's sitting down and it's a very friendly place.

Cooling get us people just talked.

We just started chatting to him.

And how's your swim?

Good.

How's the water?

Great.

You know, telling him about how there's a creepy swim every

morning, had a lovely conversation.

He's telling how his kid is, is at a boarding school down the Gold Coast.

That's why they're down.

And he's originally from to Womba.

That's an alarm bell.

Should have sounded.

Anyway, having a lovely chat and and thinking that's just a really nice guy.

Good chat.

And then he mentioned about how after he goes to church on Sunday morning,

he does this other thing or whatever.

Immediately I just felt, ugh, what a shame.

Seemed like a nice guy.

Just put a downer on the whole thing.

And look, look, you need to remember Yeah.

Love the religious, hate the religion.

Yeah, I know.

But it just sort of tells you something about somebody.

Mm-hmm.

In some people up in some ways it tells you that they've been indoctrinated.

Probably before they had the age of choice.

Yes.

And yeah.

And coming from Toowoomba, where you hail from Scott.

Mm-hmm.

More than their share of Christian up there.

Ners up there.

Yeah.

He may not have been nutter there.

Certainly Christian.

But anyway, anyway, it was just one of those things where it was like a

conversation that had been really pleasant and it just, and that was all it took.

That's where I'm at at this point in life when I make

these discoveries about people.

Imagine meeting a new colleague and you know, getting on with them

fine and then finding out they were a young Earth creationist.

Yes.

Well, imagine how he would've felt had he learned that I was one of

the, a satanist, most satanist.

No doubt.

That would've been a shock to him.

Probably.

Yes.

Hello?

In the chat room, Alison Romman.

And Shay Shay's back as well.

So Shay says, describing my life on Tinder there Trevor.

I'm, I'm shocked.

Shay, I thought you'd be on Christian Mingle.

Yeah, this, this is the world we're in.

So go on you Shay.

Good to have you in the chat room.

We were talking about you the other day.

It's a potential mover and shaker in the world.

Don't let us down, SHA, we're counting on you.

Cause none of the rest of us will then issue.

Yeah.

Must be right.

So yeah, that was my week.

Now hodgepodge of different ideas.

You know, often the things we talk about are quite depressing or

could be seen as quite depressing.

And I'm gonna tell a story about somebody's death and it's probably

one of the more optimistic things that we'll talk about in tonight's episode.

And this was from Joss Hall, who is the Dying with Dignity Queensland president.

And she wrote.

My dear friend Jillian died on Tuesday morning at 11:20 AM the nurse inserted

the needle into the porter cath that had been used to deliver Jillian's

chemotherapy and slowly started injecting the voluntary assisted dying substance.

After about 30 seconds, Jillian smiled and gave a little goodbye wave.

A few seconds later, her head lulled backwards and her eyes closed.

The nurse continued injecting the substance.

A few minutes after she finished the injection, she listened for

Jillian's heartbeat and checked her pupils and said Jillian had gone

after 48 years working as a nurse.

I have seen many people die, but I have never seen anyone die like that.

Losing consciousness, seconds after smiling and waving goodbye.

It was the best death I have ever seen.

This is how death should be.

It was really quite powerful and I really.

Moving moment that would've been, I didn't think they were allowed to use injections.

You can, but they've gotta be a I can't remember the exact wording of it,

but deep Throat did explain it to me that you do have the option of if you

can't swallow or something like that.

Okay.

Then they do have their, they do have the option that they can inject you.

Mm-hmm.

Right, because I thought the whole point was that no medical staff

were involved beyond prescribing it.

Yes, exactly.

That, that, that was the whole point.

That was why it was voluntary assisted dying.

Mm-hmm.

But they did actually get it into the, into the Queensland legislation

that said that if you cannot swallow, then you can actually get injected.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

It makes Queensland's laws the most liberal with a small L in the country.

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't say whether that happened in Queensland.

I assume it did, but one would've thought so.

Yeah.

But anyway, sounds like a good way to go, I reckon.

So on your own terms and doing it like that would've been a good way to go.

So that's one of the positive bits of news of the last few years where some sort of

progressive liberal reform has actually got through despite all the objections.

So, well done to dying with Dignity again, for the, for the,

the effort over the decades.

The children by choice though, are saying that abortion might be legal, but it's

still very, very difficult to get anywhere regional and on the public system.

Mm-hmm.

It's virtually impossible to have it done on the public per purse.

You know, you've gotta basically pay for it if you want it done.

So they do have all sorts of costs and that sort of stuff mm-hmm.

That get shotted out every time there's a podcast on it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Seems increasingly difficult for people to fall pregnant too.

Like you just hear so many stories of lows, sperm counts, and other

medical issues, and people leaving it till their thirties or later.

It's just sort of infertility is an increasing problem.

So, yeah.

I mean, they're saying male sperm numbers have dropped over the

last 50 years quite drastically.

Yeah.

Brian pointed that out to me the other day and we were trying

to hypothesize why it happened.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Mm-hmm.

We couldn't work it out.

I haven't seen anything that, but I haven't gone looking.

I suspect plastics and other.

Things in our food preservatives.

Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me.

Plasticizers would definitely, so not so much the plastic itself,

but the stuff that makes it soft.

Plasticizers.

Ah-huh.

And other what they call forever chemicals.

Mm-hmm.

There we go.

Alright.

So that was dying with dignity and look, we can't escape racism discussions

indigenous issues, Stan Grant ly Thorpe, all the usual characters.

So we'll dip our toes into those topics a little bit now.

Oh, hello.

In the chat room as well, Andrew and Anne, and I think I mentioned Broman

before, Bronn says in Victoria we're about to have a review of our VAD

legislation and how it has been working, which is probably not before time

because it's, I think Victoria was the first state that had it, wasn't it?

One of the first, I think, or I think New South Wales tried but couldn't get it up.

Might've been South Australia.

Hmm.

Getting to that age.

Yeah.

I do remember how dying with Dignity Queensland, who had a lot

of money from the Clem Jones estate.

Yeah.

Used the money in other states because they figured it would

help to get legislation passed in other states first, cuz Queensland

was never gonna be the first.

So they were, and I thought South Australia, south Australia was one of

the states that they concentrated on in helping to pass legislation so as to get

the ball rolling and make it easier for Queensland to just copy at a later stage.

I think it was one of the first states that debated it, but I

don't believe it was the first state that actually implemented.

I believe Victoria was the first one to implement it.

Yeah.

Can't remember.

But anyway, yes, but not territory.

No territories have only just been given the right to legislative

Well, but Northern Territory had out in the eighties, didn't they?

They had it in the nineties.

Yeah, it was the nineties.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alright, act to racism, which we really wanna get into.

Again.

Lady Thorpe, one of your favorites, Scott.

Oh, no, she's an idiot.

She's now independent, former green senator.

She's suing the greens.

She's accused the greens of racism and will lodge a case with the

Australian Human Rights Commission.

This was an article in the aap.

It didn't exactly say specifically what she was claiming was the racism

that she had been subjected to.

She says I've experienced racism all my life in every workplace,

and the greens were no different.

Last week she claimed ex-colleague, green Senator Sarah Hansen Young,

failed to stand up to racism in the party, directed towards her and.

Senator Hanson Young rejected the accusation.

So, a bit further on the article that he thought makes the point that she's not

sure what she's doing with the referendum.

She doesn't wanna support it cuz it gives no power.

We want real power.

We want to acknowledge as sovereign, we want to be acknowledged as

sovereigns in this country.

Just as the crown is acknowledged as a sovereign.

So she wants more, she's accusing the greens of racism.

Wonder what will happen there with the actual accusation of racism.

Can I just say something just potentially a little bit controversial about living?

Okay.

Provide, it's not defamatory.

You can say whatever you like, Scott.

It's not defamatory.

I just think to myself, is she just a little bit like a hammer

that sees everything as a nail?

Mm-hmm.

You know, is she actually looking for racism?

What does, there's also.

I, I wonder there've been some very, very publicly reported outbursts

and you wonder, is she losing the plot or is this just the reporting?

Yeah.

Are, are they blowing something that is perfectly normal out of context?

Blowing it up?

Yeah.

It's a good point.

Or, or is she really just spoiling for a fight and finding

a fight wherever she can?

Yep.

It could be selective reporting.

Yes.

Who knows?

No, exactly.

It's a problem.

We ne we dunno where the truth lies on so many things.

We can only just have a Yeah, exactly.

The way she's been reported, it certainly looks like she's a little bit unhinged.

Mm-hmm.

That's the impression from the reporting, but yeah, you can't be certain of that.

I was gonna say, having seen reporting and the, the misrepresentation in the press.

It's always at the back of my mind, you know, is this what they're really like?

Or are we painting a monster because that's what we want?

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Anyway in the chat room Alison says Victoria was the first state to

introduce voluntary sister dying.

There we go.

Yes, I thought it was.

There we go.

Alright, well, on the topic of racism in Australia, the essential poll came out.

So I'm just gonna share the screen that I've got here, which

might be a bit difficult to see if you're on the tiny phone.

But so polling people about racism in Australia, and the question

was to what extent do you agree or disagree with the following

statements about racism in Australia?

And the first one was, people are scared to say what they really think because

they don't want to be labeled as racist.

And please explain 67% of people.

Would agree with that statement.

I think Australia is less racist than it has been in the past.

50% agree with that.

Australia is a racist country.

41% agree with that.

A member of my family has experienced racism or racial discrimination.

32% of Australians say that I have personally experienced

racism or racial discrimination.

31% agree with that and I feel torn between my identity with

Australia and another culture.

19%.

Scott or Joe, have you ever experienced racism or racial discrimination?

No, I never have Joe.

No.

Right.

But then, but you're possibly asking the wrong people because Well, exactly.

Yes.

Yes.

By looking at us both, you can tell that we are both.

Can't tell by looking at people.

Scott, why, why shouldn't a white country?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yes.

All I having said that yeah, my, my grandfather was a Jew.

Mm-hmm.

It's possible to get antisemitism.

Yes.

The only actually I have experienced racism and that was

in North Africa where I was, yeah.

I was given additional screening coming into Tunisia

on my Jewish anti antecedents.

Yes.

Really?

Yep.

I remember on, I did that interview for that Russian television.

Was that Russia Today or whatever, rt?

Yes.

And in the comments section, they thought I was Jewish and had a big nose.

Does that count?

I can also remember when I was about 18 and I was at the the Victoria

Bridge in Brisbane and there was an in.

Indigenous street March.

And this indigenous woman was yelling at me, calling me or white

so and so saying, she just I was just standing on the footpath, watch

him go by and, and got insulted.

I guess that probably counts, but not genuine.

I found being in, when I was in New York and we were staying in Harlem, and that

was a good experience because we were the minority as white people wandering around

in Harlem, so we stood out as different.

So that was a good experience to have.

I, I, I was gonna say a lot of the Asian cultures are very racist.

Mm-hmm.

But, but again, generally the white people get a free pass.

Mm-hmm.

It tends to be racist towards other.

Dark-skinned people.

Mm-hmm.

And even in Africa I know that there's problems with the Indian migrant

communities that were brought in under British colonial rule mm-hmm.

And tend to be the merchant class.

And there's a lot of racism because of that.

Mm-hmm.

You know, the, the blacks against the browns effectively.

Mm-hmm.

There's, I I was gonna say, I, I think the European or the Western cultures

are a lot less overtly racist than other than, than other cultures and

certainly than we have been in the past.

price for all of her faults.

Mm-hmm.

Particularly on economics.

She tells us cuz she is married to a white man or is a white partner.

And she's often quoted as saying that her husband has experienced more racism

than she has when he walks around the streets of Alice Springs being called

a white so-and-so by indigenous people.

And another friend of ours was a white nurse who did some work in

Mount Heiser and came home language warning, dear listener, came home and

said to her mother mom, why didn't you tell me I'm a stupid white cunt?

And she said, what do you mean?

She said, well, that's what the indigenous people tell me in the

hospital as I'm trying to help them out.

So suffered enormous racial insults as a nurse in Manai Hospital trying

to help indigenous people out.

So anyway, yeah, I think the statistics, I think anybody who is felt as another,

as an outsider is gonna get some form of.

Mm.

Different treatment.

Mm.

Julia in the chat room says, I was subjected to racism when I lived in Japan.

Sometimes some restaurants just ignored me if I was there with

Western friends and served Japanese customers who came in afterwards.

But generally they were favorably disposed to me, which I didn't really want either.

So, got some negative and some unwanted positive as well.

So you, you know that in Japan you cannot become a naturalized

Japanese citizen, and if you have a child with a Japanese citizen, the

child is automatically Japanese.

And as far as Japanese law is concerned, parents have a hundred percent

rights to the child if you divorce.

Say that again.

I don't, I didn't understand that.

Say that again.

So, so if you have a child with someone a partner who is Japanese Yes.

And you end up getting divorced Yes.

Under Japanese law.

They get a hundred percent custody.

Oh, the Japanese, okay.

Yes.

Because the child is automatically Japanese compared to the non-Japanese.

Right.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, so there are some very weird racist laws in some parts of the world.

Right.

Japan won't actually accept anyone that doesn't have Japanese

doesn't understand Julia.

Julia is saying you can become a naturalized citizen.

A finished guy did and became a local counselor.

Okay.

Then it must be very, very difficult.

My understanding was it, it wasn't a, a possible thing.

So maybe it's just very difficult.

Julia's Yeah.

Japanese expert.

Yeah.

And she's saying she knows another woman who became a Japanese citizen.

Good to have you on the chat there.

Julia, you've chimed in at the right time, haven't you?

Yeah.

Hello to Alison's mother as well.

Beverly, I think.

Be aye.

Yes, Bev.

Good.

Okay.

So, no real surprises with those statistics.

I mean, when it says I have personally experienced racism or

racial discrimination, 31% of people agree with or say that's the case.

Just breaking it down by, I mean, it, it it's gone up by 4% since 2019.

September 19.

Yes.

So they did the same poll four years ago, and there's been an

increase by 4% of people who have personally experienced racism.

Also, you know, to the question, Australia is a racist country,

currently 41% think so, but four years ago, only 36% thought so.

Mm-hmm.

Just, I, I know they have these split up by gender and stuff like that.

Gender, there wasn't much difference.

Or pretty much.

Male and female.

Very similar responses to all those questions.

Age was the one where older people were more likely to say, people are scared

to say what they really think because they don't wanna be labeled as a racist.

So 78% of 55 year and older people thought that and they were also the old

ones were the least likely to be torn between their identity with Australia

and other culture and voting intention.

Are there any surprises here?

So the question, people are scared to say what they really think cuz they

don't wanna be labeled as racist.

If you were gonna vote independent or other party,

88% of people agreed with that.

That's gotta be your Pauline Hansen's type in there.

And although she wasn't afraid to say what she thought, no, it's.

Australia's a racist country, greens voters, 61% would agree with that.

But of the coalition, only 28% would agree with that.

You have to wonder of the greens voters, how many have actually

traveled outside of the country

where they would've been potentially facing discrimination?

Is that what you mean?

Or compared to other countries?

I was gonna say, compared to other countries, what the level of racism is.

Yes.

Like I said, I, I had had an Indian colleague I was talking to about this

and he said Australia by international standards is not a racist country.

Yes, it's not perfect, but there are considerably worse places.

Depends how people read the question, because yeah, you

could find racism anywhere.

Yes, you could find something in Antarctica amongst some

scientists there for sure.

But it's, you know, You would read the question as saying, is it relatively

more racist than normal, I guess?

Or I don't know.

How do people read that question is the other thing.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I mean, is it, is there any racism or is it

worse than other countries?

Yes.

Or is it worse than an acceptable level?

Should be possible.

Who knows how people read it?

Mm-hmm.

Anyway that was essential poll on racism.

We've got more from essential poll on other stuff coming up.

Um Right.

Okay.

Sarah Hansen.

So back to Sarah Hansen Young.

So she was accused by Lydia Thorpe of not supporting her in terms

of the racism that she'd faced.

So while on the topic of Sarah Hansen Young, she was at some

senate committee hearing.

Where they were talking to ABC Management and she was grilling the ABC management

about why the ABC management is so accommodating to News Corp journalists.

So, let's play a little bit of what she had to say.

From where I sit, news Corporation have been attacking the ABC for years.

Wait on Yeah, I can hear it.

Did you hear that?

I couldn't hear that for some reason.

And let me just change something, which might be why I didn't hear it

and I need to hear it, obviously.

Yeah.

Let me just change this.

It's on my own personal computer, so now hopefully I'll hear it as well

as everyone, it's a basic sport for them, beat up on the public broadcaster

and they have a, they have a track record of going after individuals.

They've done it to women, they've done it to women of color, they've

done it to First Nations people.

They go after them.

They whip up the frenzy of haters, and then they sit back and

watch good people be torn down.

And you can't sit here today and tell me that you haven't seen

that pattern happen until now.

Surely this is not new.

So, a few things, Senator.

The first is the Murdoch family in the ABC have had an interesting

relationship since the 1930s.

So there's nothing new there.

Secondly, the, the coverage of the ABC and the criticism of the ABC's

coverage was not limited to News Corp.

Nine.

And other publishers were very critical as well.

Do we see.

The nine newspapers trolling through abc journalists, social media feeds.

I, I'm not sure why does the ABC continue to provide a platform for representatives

from News Corporation when they, so clearly as a corporate entity have such

disdain for the public broadcaster?

There are some good journalists at News Corp.

You, you, we've, we've got good journalists in our ranks

that have come from News Corp.

You know, I get there's a valid question as to, as to would we think about it,

but there are some, some journals that we do want to hi, pull onto, whether

it's insiders or whether we have q and a whether it's the Drum for, for we

are seeking their view and perspective.

This Benjamin at ABC is completely out of touch, I think.

And I think the producers of those programs who are employed

to line up panelists who will be interesting, are just lazy and they

just reach for the same Rolodex.

Look, I, I think they're scared and they're, they're unwilling to

admit that they're scared of getting lambasted in the murder press.

You get lambasted anyway.

Well, exactly.

They're not gonna hold back like what she was saying.

She was just saying that they that they make a sport out of it.

Yeah.

And you know, the number of times Greg Sheridan gets trotted out onto

these programs and it's, you know, he has nothing interesting to say.

He's got two answers to everything.

It's either submarines or it's God.

And, and that's it for Greg Sheridan.

That's his solutions to everything.

It's, he's he gets trotted out.

I think a lot of these producers are just lazy and just reach for the same old ones.

There's all sorts of really interesting people.

For example, any number of the writers in the John UE blog who I read all the time

would be far more interesting than these Murdoch hacks that they keep bringing out.

That well, it's like that bloke you're talking about from Crikey before,

if they actually, if they actually rolled him out every now and again.

Yes.

Guy Ru.

Yeah.

Some interesting people.

There is lots of interesting people out there in Australia, and you don't

have to keep dipping into the Murdoch.

Well, for a panelist just.

Use some energy and, you know, you'll improve your show.

But I think they're just, they're lazy.

Just harking back just the thing about the adoption thing Julia, our Japanese

expert, said, it's, it's not common.

You are not wrong about child custody.

It's horrible and wrong.

There you go.

So some confirmation of mm-hmm.

Of that, of that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the, it's not Coleman is about becoming Japanese citizen.

Right.

Okay.

So there we go.

So good on Sarah Hansen Young for sticking it to the ABC management,

just based on their response.

Can't see much changing.

I've given up on the abc.

It's really, what can you watch?

Not much.

Ah, okay.

Now maybe Broman can help us, our Victorian expert.

Ramen as I got from this article here bangerang and we were a jury woman.

Auntie Geraldine Atkinson cast her vote on the opening day of voting

for the second iteration of the First People's assembly of Victoria.

So the inaugural co-chair of the assembly spoke of her pride in being involved in

a democratic process that allowed the original peoples of Victoria to have a say

on policies that directly impacted them.

I'm actually not up to date on what that assembly is.

She's quoted as saying Aboriginal people are the experts on our own lives.

We know what we need to create a better future for our people.

That's a very common sentiment that I see in these things.

I was gonna say, they're claiming special knowledge, aren't they?

Aboriginal people are the experts on our own lives.

White people are the experts on white people's lives.

Does that, does that ring true mentally ill People are the experts

on mentally ill people's lives.

Hmm.

We know what we need to create a better future for our people.

Why?

People know what, why people need to create a better future for our people.

Does that, does that make sense?

Does that sound right?

No.

Swap out words, put others in.

Do they still make sense?

Do they still ring true?

Maybe not.

It's, it's that sort of sentiment that is just dangerous.

Wrong, anyway.

Yeah.

I mean it's, it's like the, as a mother I know mm-hmm.

Dismissing, dismissing the opinion of pediatricians.

Yes.

Or as a Christian, I know what true love is.

Well, possibly that too.

Yes.

Ah, okay.

Stan Grant gave Stan a bit of a hard time Bronwyn saying that we should.

Consult with them, and I, I don't disagree.

We should consult with them, but that doesn't necessarily

mean they're the experts.

Yes.

We've had that.

Yes.

Exactly.

It's not about consultation.

It's the notion that we know what's best for our people.

Yes, yes.

Because what our people want is always the same as well.

And then our people would all want the same thing.

This has been a problem in the UK where Islamic bodies have been

consulted on the Islamic community.

Yes.

And the most vocal people have been those who say, oh, well, you know, we should

have areas that don't have any alcohol.

Yes.

And there are Muslims who drink.

Yes.

And they're saying, we feel excluded.

We don't feel included in this process.

And who are these unelected spokespeople?

Hmm.

Bronwin, you can ask.

It's not about not consulting, but it's the notion that that people, that

they know best the same and that like, do the people who voted for Scott

Morrison at the last election really know what they're doing when it comes

to the best thing for this country?

You know, people make mistakes about what they think is best for themselves and

for others, and they think differently.

They don't all think the same.

This is the notion that I'm trying to get through as being apparent to me.

I'm not saying don't consult, but consultation doesn't mean

except everything everybody says as being correct, because

it's not necessarily the case.

It's like, I tend to agree with what Bronwyn's saying.

I think we've got, you know, I don't have a problem with

consultation, so I'm exactly same.

Neither do I, but that's not what we're talking about.

No, we're not saying don't consult.

Mm-hmm.

So I, I agree.

We're at cross purposes here.

So, alright.

Stan Grant so we bagged him a bit last week and there were some positive

statements said about Stan Grant.

So I thought I would balance things up a little bit.

And here's one article from the John Mandu block, just to even things up.

This guy says, I have enormous respect for Stan Grant, always intelligent,

thoughtful, and provocative.

He has been an important contributor to intellectual life in Australia.

His strength has been to move discussions on from the sterile econo,

economic economics, and superficial secularism that characterizes so

much of our national dialogue.

To the deeper philosophical and spiritual issues underpinning Australian culture.

And I'm reading this and I'm going, Crikey, this is a very pro Stan Green

article, and it went on about the reference that Stan made to Bajai and

God and, and how you've gotta be careful we shouldn't immediately slip into

western theological equivalence for complex aboriginal words and concepts,

blah, blah, blah, red on, on and on.

And and then I realized who wrote this?

Oh, it's Paul Collins, a historian, broadcaster and writer, and a

Catholic priest for 33 years.

So that kind of explained his pro Stan stance, particularly when it

came to the spirituality side of Stan.

Another one we wrote in favor of Dan was Helen Swell, a Walkley, Logies and

human rights award-winning journalist and a founder of the ABC alumni.

She describes Stan, his eloquent and deeply moving farewell comments

at the end of Monday's q and a.

Were typical of his depth and the deep humanity that drives him.

I didn't think it was deep at all.

Anyway, couple of negative well they were positive, but then there was a great

article I thought in Crikey, which was by Guy Ruddell and I quite like Guy Ruddell

when he writes on different things.

He's got a good turn of phrase and he wrote an article which was negative

and sort of dismissive of Stan Grant.

And as you would think, Crikey is kind of a left, left wing ish.

Sort of publication and reading through the comments.

And there were a lot nearly all basically agreeing with Guy Ruddell and

the sentiment of what he was saying.

And so a bit of a flavor of what Guy Ruddell was saying on Stan Grant.

Were you to write a satire of our current situation, it

might go something like this.

A leading journalist and presenter who made his career as a pioneer of tabloid

TV that went after Doll Bludgers, single mothers, et cetera, reinvents

himself as an upmarket presence.

Though he has never d denied, though he has never denied

his First Nation's heritage.

As he makes the media market transition, it becomes a more

prominent part of his public identity and of his output, increasingly

the performance of his own pain.

The country's racist history becomes a focus for the national

discussion of where we should go.

When as a de facto leader of this process, he's attacked by his

opponents on a reactionary spike slum TV station with 30,000 viewers.

He quits a public network with millions of viewers denouncing the entire

organization at his last appearance, a show designed to hear from a range of

viewpoints by Australian opinion makers and the public is reorganized so that

he can make a final performance of his agon, at which he announces that it is not

racism at all, but the media in general.

And he himself to blame, for which he gets a standing sustained ovation.

Have I missed anything?

He says, look, Stan Graham is clearly not a bad guy, but he's been a TV presenter

for decades and inevitably he has a touch of narcissism, which is to, on-air

types, what black lung is to coal miners.

You're just going to get it sooner or later, so you may as well plan for it.

See, that's the turn of phrase that's worth reading and looking for.

Love that turn of phrase, eh?

Ah, see, I just think that if he turned up on q and a mm-hmm.

Not all the time, but every six months or something like that, that would

give it a, a real shot in the arm.

Yeah.

Just quickly, I've looked in the chat room.

Shalene says, excuse me, Trevor, you've liked some of the stuff Stan wrote.

I have, but I've also said he's over time, said he's very consistent, inconsistent.

So he did write some stuff occasionally that I did agree with

saying that just goes to show I don't have it against Stan himself.

He actually comes up with a good idea.

I'm all for him, but he's very inconsistent.

We've quoted oh, I'm just trying to think.

Some really bad people have been quoted in the past on here.

Yes.

Because sometimes they're right.

Well, Scott's got the saying a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

Tell me that one, Scott.

Yeah.

So, so yeah, Stan Grant has occasionally come out with stuff in this article.

Goes on a bit with that flavor.

I won't read it all.

It's in the show notes for people who are interested.

But I will like read the last concluding paragraph here or towards the end.

While all this goes on, the 70% or so of non-indigenous Australians outside the

now utterly self-serving, self-involved knowledge class watch in amazement some

wish black people well most can see that there are wrongs to be righted.

Some are indifferent, but almost none caught in the daily struggle

of rising families making a living.

Dealing with rising costs, squeezing wages, housing shortages, strained

healthcare system, inadequate childcare aged relatives without a real state

system of care and much more see this issue as absorbing or crucial

to their life on this continent in the way that the elites within the

knowledge class have made it to be.

So that was the Guy Rundel version of that.

So, so there we go on.

Stan Grant probably had enough of Stan, I think.

What are they saying in the chat room?

You guys are going off this time, which is good.

Comparisons with Guy Rondo and Hitchins Hitchins is, what's the comparison?

Well, it was a esque, Turner Freeze was the Ah, okay.

Comment.

There we go.

It was, yeah.

Scott, Tina Turner passed away.

Yes, she did.

Mm-hmm.

And apparently Australia.

Australia honored her by doing the city limits.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Popular one.

There was a program on Sunday night, channel nine.

It was like a movie of her life type thing.

Mm-hmm.

And I was, I got about halfway through it.

I rarely watched, watched commercial tv and the ad breaks were incessant.

And so I started counting the ads and the ad breaks on Channel nine

during the Tina Turner thing, had 16 different ads in an ad, in one ad break.

And this was happening in, in the past, I've noticed the first, the first half

an hour you might get an ad break.

Mm-hmm.

But as you get further and further, as you get more and more involved in a

program, the more ads they throw at you.

Yes, that's right.

And they seem to be able to present an average when they

need to say how much they do.

But you're right, I just couldn't watch it in the end.

And just why I don't watch any sort of mainstream TV anymore.

Can't watch the abc and, and based on that ad load, it was horrendous.

Couldn't, I couldn't f I was quite enjoying the show, but it was so dominated

by ads, I couldn't stand anymore.

Mm.

Anyway, one of the things in there was she was married to Ike.

Mm-hmm.

And he, she was a victim of abuse, physical abuse from him.

Mental and physical, I guess, and eventually split up with him.

And she wrote a book hoping that it would just cuz she was always getting

asked in interviews about Ike and how she broke away from him and blah, blah.

She thought, I'll write a book.

I'll tell the whole story, then people will stop talking about it.

She wrote the book.

Then people just wanted to keep asking about it and asking about it.

And she just got exasperated where she was like, I don't want to be identified

by him and what happened to me.

I want to move on and talk about what I'm going to do in the future,

not what happened to me in the past.

And there's something in that for everybody, I have to say.

Growing up in the eighties after all that happened, I really wasn't aware of it.

You were aware of Tina Turner as.

The whole light turner thing.

I, I just knew Tina Turner as Tina Turner, you know?

Welcome to the, no, the, the Mad Max four, I think.

Yeah.

Beyond the Thunderdome, something like that.

Yeah.

Because you knew her when she sort of reignited her career basically.

Yeah.

Because of your age.

Yeah.

And so the, the whole Ike Turner thing, just, I, I became vaguely

aware of it later, but certainly at the time there was nothing about it.

Right.

See, I only just learned about Ike Turner probably in the last 12 months.

Yes.

You know, I just started to research some of the celebrities of old, you

know, and I thought to myself, okay, I'll look into Tina Turner next.

That's when I found out about OC Turner, and I thought to myself, what a prick.

Yeah.

Joe Jackson's another one.

Joe Jackson, he bashed his wife.

Did he?

Mike Michael Jackson.

Yeah.

The Jackson five.

The father.

Yes.

The father, the heirs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was apparently real prick.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bunch of them.

Shane in the chat room says, you must be the pits to watch TV with referring to me.

See, I don't have that problem with commercials because I watch

everything streamed, you know?

And the only thing that I ever do have to put up with commercials on is when

I watch something on sbs, you know?

And I actually, I watch that.

Strange, because you can't fast forward the commercials there.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Here we go.

Brahman says, watch the commercial streaming services instead.

They still have ads, but fewer of them.

Okay.

Yeah, I can understand that.

You know, if, if you're watching the nine go, is it yes.

Something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now one of the things that sort of Tina Turner was famous for

in Australia was with the n l.

Mm-hmm.

And simply the best.

Mm-hmm.

Great.

Sort of clips of, of hunky footballers running up and down

Sandhills and Tina Turner dts Yes.

All that sort of stuff, which is a little segue to the other thing in this report

from, oh, this poll by Essential, which was about sports betting advertising.

And the question that has come up is, which of the following is closest to

your view on sport betting advertising?

So, it should be allowed at all times, even during sporting events should be

allowed, but not during sporting events.

Sports betting advertising should be banned all together and unsure.

These were the possible responses people were given.

And overall 16% of Australians said sports betting advertising

should be allowed at all times.

26% said not during the events and 43% should said it

should be banned all together.

That seemed to me a high percentage willing to ban it, which was

quite pleasing to me cuz I'd be happy to see it banned.

I think it's unhealthy for our community to have it there.

Well, I agree with you.

Mm-hmm.

Joe, any thoughts on sports betting you pray for?

I, I think that there are a lot of problem gamblers in this country.

Mm-hmm.

And the level of gambling, I believe, although it tends to be more pokies

than sports is amongst the highest, if not the highest in the world.

Yeah.

Certainly the pey one would be amongst the older generation and the.

Sports betting would be amongst the younger generation.

But, but yeah, I, I have no problem with the government banning advertising

like they have with tobacco.

Hmm.

That's how I see it.

Looking at that statistics broken up by gender, not a great deal of difference.

Females more likely to want it banned, but also females more likely to be unsure.

The age is an interesting one.

Older demographic, older people.

If in the 55 plus category, 56% want it banned altogether.

And, but in the 18 to 34%, only 28% feel the same way.

I, I wonder whether the older people are seeing it more on television

whereas younger, Generations don't consume their media in the same way.

So are they as affected?

Yeah.

But the younger people would be having to watch the N R L match either on nine

or Fox, the same as the older people.

And, and, and is, is it direct advertising or is it just around the, the banners

around the field that they're seeing?

Yeah, it didn't say in this poll.

That's the problem with all these questions, but it does just give

you an indication that older people were more willing to have a band.

Possibly because they're not actually using, they're,

they're watching the television.

That's, I think they want, yeah, that's my question.

Other younger people watching it on the internet and using ad blockers?

Mm-hmm.

Dunno.

Anyway voting intention, not a great deal of difference.

So anyway, seemed like a relatively high figure to me

of people happy to treat sport.

Betting advertising, like tobacco advertising.

So yeah, that's how I view it.

A polite on our society, get rid of them from the advertising world anyway.

All right.

We really are chopping and changing all over the place on this episode.

Submarines I mentioned briefly before about Greg Sheridan.

There was an open letter with 110 signatures, basically from these

professors at universities to the government saying, what the hell are you

doing with this orcas and this submarines?

It makes no sense.

Please review this decision.

It's ridiculous.

So that open letter started with 110 signatures.

Could be more by now.

Also Scott, Scott Morrison has declared a royalties advance.

He had to declare income on his register of members' interests as

he's still a member of Parliament.

Apparently he's writing an, an upcoming memoir.

Okay.

I won't.

Right.

He was the no nothing Prime Minister of our time and all that sort

of thing is you know, had, had Turnbull released a book, didn't he?

Mm-hmm.

They all have.

Yeah.

No, they all have.

But I just thought to myself that Turnbull had actually something to say, but

Morrison's got nothing to say, you know.

Well, and Kevin Rudd also released a book, which is a load of nonsense, but he's

released it in two volumes, hasn't he?

Kevin Rudd.

Yeah.

I dunno.

I think the interesting thing about Scotty's book is the publisher.

Yes.

Who is.

Harper Collins Christian, wasn't it?

Yes.

Harper Collins's Christian Publishing.

Mm-hmm.

It's, it's gonna be a devotion to Jesus.

Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's actually the only one that never actually put

pen to paper was Paul Keating.

Yeah.

He didn't write an autobiography.

He write, there's been plenty of biographies, I

guess, but he, yeah, plenty.

There's been plenty of stuff written about him, but he never actually went

out and did his own vanity project.

I, I was gonna say, how many of them actually wrote their biographies?

Autobiographies and how many had a ghost writer wrote them.

Yes.

I don't know.

I think Scott Morrison will be relying heavily on the case rider.

So, yeah.

Anyway, we've got that to look forward to at some stage.

Payroll tax, this is where we love the dictator Dan in Victoria.

More than 130 Independent and Catholic schools in Victoria are expected to

lose their long held exemption to payroll tax in an Andrews government

measure to reduce the state's debt.

He said the private schools have had a sweetheart taxation deal

that was not affordable anymore.

Guess what?

Catholic Education Commission said the tax would probably apply

to 25 Catholic secondary schools potentially wiping up to 1 million

a year from the operating budgets.

Jewish schools have raised the alarm about the new tax warning that it could put the,

put the cost for Jewish education out of the financial reach for many families.

Mm.

Too bad.

It's so sad.

There are eight independent Jewish skills in Melbourne,

which our special privileges.

Yes, I think they'll find a way.

God cares.

He'll intervene.

Yes.

Anyway, that's where I love dictator Dan.

Like he's prepared to do things like this and show the others how to stay despite

the fact that he's Catholic himself.

Yes, indeed, indeed.

He recognizes, he recognizes the value of the secular society.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Very good.

I hope he's still got plenty of energy cuz that Mark McGowan

in Western Australia resigned, basically saying he's run out of gas.

Just Yeah.

Tired.

He's bugging.

Mm-hmm.

Hopefully dictated.

Dan can keep going.

Mm-hmm.

Show the rest of 'em how it's done.

Yeah.

Ah, okay.

Ah, Whatley in the chat room says Holy Ghost writer.

Not just a ghost writer, but a Holy Ghost writer.

Well done Whatley.

Only Whatley in the Ukraine.

Bk.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's fallen properly into the Russians.

Hasn't it actually fallen properly to the Russians?

Exactly.

It's one of those things.

I don't think we can be a hundred percent guaranteed that it's fallen because

you've got the head of the Russian, I can't remember his name, Baggo, the

Wag, the Wagner Group or whatever.

Yeah, the Wagner group.

Yeah.

He hasn't handed it over yet, is that what you mean?

No, he reckon he reckons that it has fallen to him and he's about ready

to hand it over to the Russian Army.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

We'll have to wait and see whether or not there's anything

left to hand over to them.

Yeah.

Well he was giving up, wasn't he?

Well, he act allegedly.

He, he allegedly, he said to the Ukrainians, I'll tell you where

the Russians are so you can pick them off, but you've just gotta

get outta back mood out of the way.

Alright.

Yeah.

But, but also he said, oh Putin's not giving me enough weapons and ammunition.

Exactly.

He take the do I'm taking my toys and I'm going home.

And he didn't.

Mm-hmm.

So you have to take what he says with a pinch of salt.

Oh God.

You have to take it with a bag of salt.

More than a pinch of salt.

Well, we don't see too many, too much footage of, of Ukrainian general standing

and Buck Mu saying, we're still here.

No, we haven't left yet.

It's just a flesh wound.

Haven't seen much of that.

It's just tens of thousands of lives.

Just it is a Yeah, absolutely.

It's a war of attrition.

Yeah.

And that's, that's which the Russians will probably take this

out in the long run because they are prepared to slaughter thousands

and thousands of their own people.

And so is Zelensky.

Sorry.

So is Zelensky.

He's prepared to slaughter them as well.

Yeah.

Okay.

But the only option, the only option is to sit down and negotiate

with, with Vladimir Putin.

Now let's have a look at Vladimir Putin's history of negotiated settlements.

He has ignored every single one of those negotiated settlements

that has ever been put before him.

And, and don't forget, the Russians are conscripts.

The Ukrainians are volunteers.

Volunteers, exactly.

There's, there's a huge difference.

Killing the best and brightest of the Ukrainians.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And killing the life prisoners in the Russian side.

Mm-hmm.

I don't think history's gonna treat Zelensky very well.

It, it's, I dunno, is wasted lives.

He's between a rock and a hard place.

What was he supposed to do?

Was he supposed to actually negotiate with, with, with, with Putin?

Was it, there'd be thousands of more Ukrainians still alive.

Had under person's rule.

Exactly.

No, no.

Ie.

That's not whole point.

You know, you, you're just saying that, you know, if, if, if he would,

if he would, you know, I'm assuming that what you're saying is if he'd

agreed to walk out of those eastern provinces, which his names escape me.

If he walked outta there, Don Bass and said, well, Don Bass, if he'd said,

well, you can have Don Bass if you agree that this is the last territorial claim.

Sounds very familiar, doesn't it?

Yeah, exactly.

This is my last territorial claim in Europe.

When was that Last word?

Spoken piece of time by Hitler.

And what's the worst that happens?

What's the worst?

It couldn't be worse.

It wouldn't be worse than where they're, it wouldn't be worse than where they're

now where, where they're right now.

It could have been, it could have been where Putin says, well, thanks very much.

We'll take all this area and we're gonna keep going.

The, the question is, and and at the moment, the question is

whether the Russian people have had enough and will overthrow Putin.

Well, that's, that's what Zelensky is banking on.

Well, if that's what he is banking on, well, he's, he's crazy.

You can't bank on that.

How could you bank on that?

I don't, I don't think he can bank on it either.

We're gonna lose, I don't think he can bank on it either

because it is a fascist state.

He, he should have said, we're gonna lose 10,000 lives.

We might as well just retreat now and save those lives.

But, and hope that they now, and he'll invade again.

And push for another area in another two years, four years, whatever.

But he could do that now.

So he, well, no, can't.

Yes.

He's been, he's been western.

The western, the western backed up has backed zelensky to the point

where they're now armed with the best and best tanks in the world.

He took negotiating f sixteens in there too, which will, which will both bolster

the Ukrainian army to the point that the Russians, he took crime illegally.

Mm-hmm.

And, and then he took the donbas because illegally, yes.

And so, so what's the next step?

So fine, they seed him the Donbass, and then in another five years he char Yeah.

Carves off another slice of Ukraine.

And then another one and what's next?

Which he could, which he could still do.

Which he could still do.

Even now, he could carve off another slice.

The point is there would still, there'd be 10,000 more Ukrainians alive.

They've just been, been wasted on this meat grinder.

Well, it's, it's, are they wasted now or are they wasted another five years?

If, if Zelensky had succeeded in stopping, then he might have

an argument, but he failed.

So all those lives have been lost.

He there the Russian line he had succeeded.

A hell he has.

Now, you, you are talking about the Russian line is where compared where.

They wanted the Russian, the Russians wanted Kyiv.

What?

No Russians.

They got us.

The Russian kicked out.

No, the Russians said, give us the donbas, give us crime.

Change your constitution that you won't join nato and we're outta here.

That's all we're that we're done.

Yeah.

That's what they, that's what they said from day one.

And if he had to have agreed to that, the Russian line would, but what did they say

2014, if he'd agreed to that, the Russian line would be right where it is now.

And he'd have tens of thousands of Ukrainians alive and not pushing up.

Poppies in the mud in the Ukraine.

He wasted those lives in a meat grinder.

He was always, and it was always gonna happen.

And you say, oh, if it agreed to that, then the Russians

could say, thanks very much.

Now we're gonna carve off a bit more.

Well, they can still do that.

Yeah.

He's, he's just wasted the lives.

It's, it's not gonna treat very well in my opinion, but we'll agree to

disagree and probably in the chat room.

I think people are disagreeing with me more than usual, but

anyway no, you got watley there.

He's, he's back in your, yeah.

Ro ramens agreeing with you, Scott.

Yeah, I know that.

So yeah.

Mixed bag in the chat room, which is good to see.

But you mentioned, Scott, that, that F 16 fighters.

Mm-hmm.

So now the Biden administration has said, yep, we're happy for the

Ukraine to have F 16 fighter jets.

The problem is the training is gonna take so long.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

And they haven't actually said where they're coming from.

Like they haven't actually said they're gonna be American of sixteens.

They might be from some other country or whatever, but the

Americans have said, yeah, okay.

You can have some.

This is what will potentially lead to World World War iii because according

to this article from Caitlin Johnson, Biden's, national Security Advisor, Jake

Sullivan, made it clear that Washington would approve of us weapons being used

in an offensive to recapture Crimea.

A horrifying prospect for many experts have agreed it is the

most likely scenario to lead to nuclear warfare in this conflict.

And but international law says that crime is Ukrainian.

So it's an illegal occupation by the Russians.

Mm-hmm.

And if the Russians want to defend something that was illegally taken,

they're the only ones that are armed with nukes in that part of the world.

So if anyone's gonna use nukes first, it'll be the Russians that use it.

Well, the point is, if the US is gonna start supplying F 16 bit Jets

to the Ukraine and saying mm-hmm.

Start bombing Crimea with them or attacking them that's

an escalation that's end.

Yeah, exactly.

That's gonna be good.

It is quiet.

It is possibly a little bit too far to provide F 16 fighter jets to

Ukraine because it could actually, it could actually embolden the

Ukrainians to try and take back Crimea.

Mm-hmm.

Well, they're being told Go ahead.

You can do it.

Yeah.

The Ukrainians want Crimea.

The question is they want Crimea.

Whatever happened to democracy though?

I mean, do you believe that the strikes on the Kremlin were false flags?

The drone strikes on the Kremlin?

Yeah.

That have no opinion about it, but it could be, could have been anything.

They're just drone strikes.

Could be anything.

Yeah.

But I mean, the, the, the Ukrainians suddenly managed to operate that

far inside of Russia's borders.

Ukrainian sympathizers would be within the Russian borders.

I think that I think you're drawing a very long bow there.

Trevor me to say that there are Ukrainian sympathizers in Russia.

Is that long Bow own?

A drone.

A drone That would be a military style drone.

Exactly.

What did it do?

Yeah, what did it do?

It it blew up, but close to the Kremlin, but not actually in the Kremlin.

And nobody was injured, so it dropped a small bomb of some sort.

It doesn't require a great deal of, you know, it, it, it wasn't like

blowing up a, a Nord stream pipeline, let's put it, that it, it wasn't

a homemade No, no, I, it wasn't.

This didn't require state level actors.

Right.

It doesn't seem too hard to me to sneak our drone into Russia and get

some sympathizers to flight over the Kremlin and course mischief.

That doesn't that to me.

Well, what are you guys saying that the Kremlin did it as a false flag?

Oh, I think that's considerably more likely.

Why?

Absolutely.

Because, because because they're trying to prove to their citizens

that they're in the right, that this horrible Ukraine is picking a fight with

Russia, and Russia is defending itself.

Then they would've got, and that the Jewish president and that the Jewish

president of Ukraine is an Nazi.

Yes.

Yeah.

See, they would've got the drain to drop a bomb over a children's hospital.

That's what you would do if you were trying to do that

in the chat room.

Is it a false flag?

Who, who dropped the bomb on the Kremlin?

Was it?

Ukrainian sympathizers or was it a false flag, Russian operation.

Well, and there have, there have been a number of false flag videos on Telegram.

Yes.

Which has been proven that they were definitely Russians who

were pretending to be Ukrainians.

Yep.

Yes.

So again, nothing would surprise me in this war.

Yes, yes.

There's, there's only one thing that would surprise me if it turned out

that it wasn't the United States who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline.

That would astound me, cuz I'm convinced it was them.

But anyway, it's heading in a bad direction with F 16 fighters being given

to the Ukrainians and being told to attack the people of Crimea, who, as I understand

it, According to a democratically held election, decided they wanted be Russian,

but democratic elected, democratic, democratic referendum that was supervised

by the Russian government when cleansed an area of the people who used to

live there would put your citizens in.

And then all of As to whether they were to be where.

Oh, so we're all very confident about this.

Are we?

I mean, you know, we're super confident, but in fact wanted to stay uk.

Can we be so confident Bass referendum, which was a 90% Yes.

To becoming part of Russia.

You know, there was, it seems extraordinary that,

that it couldn't be right.

It couldn't be right.

It's like Chinese who are happy with the government.

It couldn't be Right.

It's quite possible guns at their head.

How do we know?

We don't know where the truth is in this Exactly, and I just think

that, but given the ethnic naive to given believe that a former KGB

agent is all sweetness and light.

He's a prick.

Here's the point, we don't know because given the ethnic history of these regions,

we don't know it's, it is possible.

You can't be so convinced that there's no way they could have

wanted to be part of Russia.

Like it's entirely possible.

I dunno where the truth is.

So, but I'm just, the crow, the, the crime here.

So don't forget, SAASTA pole is one of Russia's three deep water naval bases.

Mm-hmm.

So the area around Saasta pole was always Russian troops.

Mm-hmm.

So if you poll Russian troops, of course they're gonna say yes.

And since the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, the number of

Ukrainians who are in Crimea are muchly reduced, would've left.

And.

Yes.

Russians have settled, I dunno how many, hundreds of thousands of people given

them favorable tax breaks or whatever it is to go, Hey, come and live in Crimea.

It's great.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, if you take the people who were there before and get rid of them and

then stick in your population, of course they'll vote that yes, Russia is great.

And potentially there was a significant, significant proportion of the

population that did wanna, did feel Russian and stayed like possibly.

We don't know.

I, I think possible to know the demo.

The demographics will have changed.

I think it's impossible to know because the Russians refuse to allow international

observation of the, of the, of the pole.

Yeah.

We'll never know.

So anyway, there's all feed for thought out there.

There was two sides to a story.

It's two sides to every story, but I just think it's very naive of

you to believe that a former KGB agent has grown up and become a,

a convert of sweetness and light.

I didn't say that and would negotiate.

I didn't say that.

You're putting words into my mouth.

You're like, you're like Brahman with the consulting story.

That's not what we're saying.

I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that peon is someone I would want

to be under his control, but Yeah.

But you're saying that Ukraine should be under his control to, to save their lives.

Well, it's quite possible that he's had a successful propaganda campaign

that people feel that they wanna be part of Russia in the Crimea.

It's quite possible.

Yeah.

I think that Crimee is quite possibly, yeah, I think crime is possibly right,

but I honestly believe that 90% voting to become part of Russia out of the

donbas is a little bit ridiculous.

Mm-hmm.

Well, perhaps 55% white wanting.

Yeah.

55 percent's a hell of a lot lower than 90% though.

Well, well, the point is, you know, we just don't know.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Anyway where are we up to?

Just to burn our res out, aren't you?

Ah, yes, I am.

So with the recent coronation we had we had the government general's wife sang

a sign, oh good lord, she's not singing.

Was she celebrating the coronation?

And that was all over quick, where's, why were you buttoned?

And and unfortunately, dear listener, the audio of that re of that

performance really wasn't up to scratch.

Oh dear.

So I couldn't play it.

I have found this one where she was addressing a group about palliative

care with mom and self reflection, quiet with the family, sometimes

special and you care and don't we thank party care and the cafe.

Some are volunteers and doctors and nurses.

They experienced death and sorrow.

The families too.

A hospice.

Oh, cut it short.

You know, there, there should have been more of a trigger warning on that.

Yeah, I think, I think people got the idea.

I think we got the, the idea All from Canberra won't be happy, Ben.

We can be grateful that Mrs.

Hurley didn't decide to lead a community sing along at the Abbey while, while

we are waiting for the king to arrive.

Yeah.

Anyway Craigy had a good article listing the things that she has sung

about and actually, what are the lines here, because she, she, she's trying

to get ideas into these songs and referring to organizations and stuff.

And this writer and Crikey said, Joni Mitchell might have said, I

cannot work the concepts of Center for Invasive Species Solutions and

philanthropic opportunities elegantly into averse, let alone those exact words.

But of course Linda Hurley managed to do that.

She just ah, okay.

What can you say?

Stop.

That's what you could say.

Just stop.

Look for the man you're saying.

Stop.

It's you who's playing these bloody things

because I'm trying to expose her to, to, to create a wave of community outrage

that will eventually lead to her stopping.

That's, that's why we talk about these things here.

Rent Crisis Saturday paper had an article.

Look, we are looking at why are rents so high and one of the theories put forward.

What's that, Scott?

There's merciless people like me that rent properties out so well.

People have always rented.

It's people who don't rent properties out but own rental properties.

Correct.

Scott, you are the good guy in this.

You've got properties and you are actually renting them out.

Yeah, I suppose so.

According to this from the Saturday paper, it says, we've never had more dwellings

per head of population than we do now.

We bill between 160 and 240,000 new homes in Australia every year.

That's more than enough to cope with population growth.

The thing is, they are increasingly big and empty homes.

The average Australian dwelling has more than three bedrooms, and newer

homes have more than older ones.

Meanwhile, the number of people living in them is declining from about 2.9 in

the mid eighties to 2.5, and the pandemic has contributed to this as more people

working from home requiring more space.

Tens of thousands of spare bedrooms became home offices on census night in 2021.

More than 10% of dwellings, more than a million homes were unoccupied.

Many were second homes for wealthier Australians.

Mm.

Yeah.

Can't think of anybody who's got a second home.

Yeah, exactly.

It's true.

What's happening is boomer's parents are passing away, boomers are inheriting

their parents' place, which they've already got a mortgage paid off and

they think, oh, I have a holiday home.

Or they've already got a holiday home.

Like, yeah, lots of boomers with empty holiday homes.

And well that was gonna be my next question was how many of

those homes were in places that people actually want to live?

Dunno.

Yeah.

If, if you have a million homes in the regional centers of Australia have

they all moved into the big cities?

Are tho Is that why the homes are empty?

They haven't really said that there's a problem with an imbalance

between the regions and the city.

But you know, that is the case that people who are maybe sharing houses would

be doing less people in a house because they need the bedrooms for a study for

an office as they're working from home.

So less people in homes and also, yeah, people owning multiple

homes and having holiday houses that they could be renting out.

So Scott, you're the good guy in this cuz you've got, as the

regional slum lord of Queensland, you're actually renting 'em out.

You're the good guy.

Yeah, I suppose so.

Essential Poll had some stuff about current housing system.

Let me just find that current housing system.

Here it is.

And that, and so.

How good or bad do you think the current housing system

is for the following groups?

By housing system, we mean the laws and regulations that provide protection

and benefits when owning or buying or selling or renting a residential property.

And very good.

Good.

Neither good nor bad.

Bad.

Very bad.

So it's asking how good is the system for the following groups?

And basically at the top there, people who already own their own, own home

Australians 43% of them think that the system works well, very good or very good

for people who already own their own home.

But for future generations only 9% think that.

So.

People recognizing that the system helps current homeowners,

but not future generation, not renters, not Australia as a whole.

But it does help people who own their own home or who

invest in residential property.

So nothing surprising there.

I don't think gender wise not a great difference.

Males are more likely to think that the system is beneficial for people who

already own their own home or who invest invested in residential properties.

I was gonna say, males would be marginally more likely to own an investment property.

True.

So, but even if you don't own one, you should understand that the

system helps people who own one.

So, yeah.

Age-wise, This is the one that got me actually.

So, older people understand that the system helps people who currently own

their own home or who are investing and they also acknowledged that it's

really bad for future generations.

But the younger generation was more likely to think that the system

works well for future generations.

I didn't understand that.

So I don't think because they've been indoctrinated.

Yes, potentially that's it.

I don't know why, but that's really quite puzzling, isn't it?

Yeah.

I dunno why younger generation, 21% of have, have people your younger generation.

So no, I haven't, so.

But I've indoctrinated them as to how the system works.

I think they've got a fair idea.

Okay.

Well see, I've already apologized to my younger generation in my family

and said, look, I'm very sorry, but I, I grew up at a time when it was

cheap to buy property and I bought a property and I sold it for a mint.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, mm-hmm.

There's nothing I can do about that.

Mm-hmm.

Looking at options, measures that could be taken to make the system

better, and putting restrictions on foreign investment in real estate.

It was 69% of people agreed with that.

Putting a freeze on rental increases.

60% of people would either strongly support or somewhat support.

So putting, that's an interesting one, Scott, on on placing a

freeze on rental increases, 36% strongly supported, and 24%.

Somewhat supported.

Only 17% were against it.

There was a lot of Dinos there or, or neutrals.

That seems quite a high number of people willing to look at rent freezers.

Yeah, I know that and I realize the greens have got a hell

of a lot of running on that.

But you listen to some of the economists out there, they will

actually tell you it's a bad idea to actually put a rental freeze on there.

Mm-hmm.

I don't fully understand why, but they do actually say it's a bad idea.

Mm-hmm.

The other one that interests me was the one oh, capping the number of

investment properties someone can own.

50% agreed with that.

What I, I, what I am shocked about and there you go.

Going back to Australia as a racist country.

Mm-hmm.

Place further restrictions on foreign investment in residential property.

Yes.

Quite high, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Well I look playing the foreigners.

What I see, what I don't see on there, which is the one I've heard

of, is charging higher rates on or higher tax levels on empty properties.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

On short, short term, lets, because apparently Airbnb has a,

a bad impact, people are saying down the Gold Coast particularly.

Mm-hmm.

What used to be residential accommodation is now holiday accommodation because

Airbnb just makes it so easy.

Mm-hmm.

And so, effectively just charging higher rates on that to dissuade people, to

make it less, make it less profitable.

Yep.

Yep.

And again, for, for un unoccupied properties, just

charge a an empty property fee.

Yeah.

Certainly councils now are charging higher rates or unoccupied properties.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Just by voting intention, was there anything?

Obviously actually again, the independent party voters were, were

all up for really strong measures to, to to make changes, particularly

restricting foreign investment.

No support.

What a shock.

Yeah.

So, 64% of green's voters would be in favor of a freeze on rental increases.

And.

Capping the NU capping the number of investment properties, 59%.

Anyway.

Overall, I think fairly strong support for what would've been measures that really

five years ago would've been unthinkable.

I reckon Scott, like that sort of government intervention into the market,

I don't think Australians would've been as up for it as what they are now.

Seems to me becoming after all of this covid sort of stuff where government flex

actually what a government is useful for.

Yes.

And we've actually learned that governments have a use, so we can

actually used to telling people stuff, but they could and couldn't do.

Exactly.

And also it's just becoming increasingly obvious.

You know, you might be a teacher first.

Say you're a first year teacher on the Sunshine Coast.

Really hard to find a place to rent that's within any sort of reasonable

commute of a Sunshine Coast School.

Like there's just nothing to rent.

Mm-hmm.

Cause it's all been let out holiday letting on Airbnb.

Mm-hmm.

What's there is ridiculously expensive.

So I think people have seen enough personal examples of that.

So, yeah, just to me though, that poll just showed a surprising willingness

from a lot of people for fairly heavy government regulation that maybe

wouldn't have been acceptable before.

So there we go.

How are we going for time wise?

8 58.

Ah, we're up to and a half.

Yeah.

No, we, well, I think that's almost enough, isn't it?

What do I have here?

Oh look, because we are talking about Putin.

I'll play this one.

Bricks, Brazil, Russia, India and China.

Yeah.

India, China and South Africa.

South Africa.

This is from the South African guy.

So, a n c general Secretary was being interviewed about Putin

and Russia and the relationship.

So I think I've got this one here cuz it's sort of relevant to our

earlier discussion, which I didn't know we're gonna do what we did.

Let me just see here we go.

Yeah.

With me.

One second.

Okay.

Africa is a, a treaty member of the International Criminal Court.

If Putin comes here in August as planned, your government will be obliged

to arrest him as head of the a n c.

Do you believe your government should and indeed will arrest Vladimir?

If it was according to the a n c, we will one President

Putin to be here even tomorrow.

You would to come to come to come to our country.

But you will welcome Vladimir Putin here right now.

Of course, we will welcome a man who is being investigated for

war crimes by the international.

We will welcome him to come here as patent person of bricks, but

we know that we are constrained by the ICC in terms of doing that.

Putin is a head of state.

Do you think that a head of state can just be arrested anywhere?

How many crimes have your country committed in Iraq?

How many crimes have everyone else who suffer focal today

committed in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Have you arrested them?

Not, you know, the impact that this stand in yours, you made a lot of

noise about putting a state of working for peace between Ukraine and Russia,

and you failed to resolve the war.

Where are the weapons of mass destruction?

Tony Player went to Iraq and claimed that there weapons of mass destruction.

Did you see anybody standing against that?

In the United Kingdom and Britain, more than millions of people have died

in Iraq and Afghanistan, and there are no weapons of mass destruction.

We know what the war is about.

Mr.

Secretary General between Russia You get the idea pushback saying, well,

we, we support other dictators.

I think the difference is that, you know, I agree with what he's coming

from, but I also think that the ICC didn't actually indict anyone.

In Iraq, but they having indicted Putin and the war

crimes were slightly different.

So there have been soldiers, not as many people, not, not as many people

killed soldiers who have been tried.

But so we're talking about ethnic cleansing has gone on in the Ukraine.

Mm-hmm.

That's the allegations.

And there's some fairly strong evidence ethnic cleansing didn't happen in Iraq.

I guess the point I'm making is that we're moving to a multipolar

world and we've got bricks.

We've got you know, Brazil, we've now got Venezuela, we've got

the Saudis are talking to Iran.

They're best buddies now.

There's a breakaway of the global South and other countries

who are now banding together.

With the help of China, with the oil of the Saudis, and they don't view Russia and

Putin unfavorably like the West has done.

It's just the fact that that they view it quite differently to what the West does.

So I'm just trying to give a perspective that not everybody in the world is

following the same Western view of it.

Not saying that Putin's right in what he's doing, but these people are saying

like, this guy from Africa is saying, well, he's a leader of a major country

and you guys didn't arrest or stop any of the murderous thugs who are in charge

of the uk, the US and Australia when they went around the world bombing places.

So don't go telling us what to do in this case.

That's how the, that is how the global South looks at the Ukraine, Russia.

But go back 40 years, and that was the same with the east versus the west

and the Iron curtain were propping up various states in the south, the global

south, who would align with them.

Yeah.

Please.

Sash.

Yes.

I, I I don't see that this is anything new.

Well, when you've got, when you've got countries that are not under the

thumb, but are voluntarily forming a new multi-polar block, countries as diverse

as South Africa, Brazil, Venezuela, Iran, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, like, that's

a lot of people who are entering into this voluntarily because they're, they're

done with the system that was in place.

They're not being, you know, forced into this.

They're going, they've been chomping at the bit waiting for an opportunity

to tell the IMF and the USA and the Western powers to go and get fucked.

And it's come to the point where they can actually do it now.

And so they look at this situation.

It's not like a poor African country that was getting some foreign aid from

Russia and felt that it had to this is a much more voluntary shifting of, of

power that's happening in the world.

It's just an example of it there.

And this is a bit of homework for you, Trevor.

Can you come back with a critique of the view of the western

world that the US imposed at the end of the Second World War?

What was wrong with the rules-based order?

What was wrong with the rules based order?

Yes.

Well, what was wrong with it was it was attached to neoliberalism where basically

the USA said to the global south, that in particular Latin America, that you've

gotta give, you've gotta give, you have to open up your economies to us.

Mm-hmm.

We will not let you create industry.

You can make, you can grow bananas and we'll buy your bananas.

But don't you dare try and start a car manufacturing industry.

We won't let you.

They were held back because of the IMF in the World Bank, and, and as soon as they

showed any promise they would've been militarily attacked, their governments

would've been overthrow a yen in Chile.

So that's what happened was, was the US hegemon was forced on these countries

and they couldn't do anything about it.

Now, China has got big enough, India, Russia, Iran, there's ano.

The American has deteriorated enough now that these countries can finally

get out from underneath their power.

That's what happened.

Yeah, I suppose I,

so, yeah, so when it comes to these things, there's just a different

point of view out there in the world, and it's like, I had a

discussion with Paul from Canberra.

He is up in Brisbane recently, and we're talking about China.

I was just trying to say to him, People think that the Chinese are

chomping at the bid for a different form of democratic government on whole.

They're not that You can look at all manner of different poles and the

Chinese are happy with the system of government that they've got

largely, they're far happier with it than than Western countries are.

And in the West we don't understand that.

And next week when we will resume, I'll do the article, which is what

the West doesn't understand about China, but it's similar to this

sort of discussion we are having.

The West doesn't understand the global south and doesn't understand

China, and they think about these things from a different point of

view and it's, you know, you're accusing me of being naive about my

view of I'm not being naive at all.

I understand he's a prick and a BA and all the rest of it.

But it's, it's not as straightforward as Western propaganda would have it.

Yeah.

Ah, there we go.

I'll have to agree to disagree on that one, I think.

Yeah.

Well, that's good.

That's what we are here for, right?

It's over an hour and a half.

We're done for this week in the chat room.

You've been magnificent.

Keep up the good work.

Join us again next week.

We'll talk to you then.

Bye for now.

And it's a good night from me, man.

It's a good night from him.