I object.

That's hearsay.

You can't.

They can't do that.

All right, we're gonna talk about hearsay today.

Do you want to do the intro or do you just want to jump right in here?

We're gonna jump right into it.

Okay, all right.

Hearsay.

I get this all the time.

You know, people call us, look, Palmer, legal defense.

You got a problem, you got a criminal, we can help you.

I defend folks charged with crimes all the time.

And one of the questions I get all the time is how can they possibly do this based on what that person says?

That's hearsay.

It's not a core statement.

All right, he's gonna.

What they're asking is, let's say there's a scenario where there is no physical evidence.

And I'll tell you where.

This comes up all the time.

And people may not.

People wanna apply this in their situation, but then say it's okay in this situation.

The delayed accusation child sex abuse case.

And look, I'm not taking a.

But I'm not saying that this is good.

These are horrific crimes when they occur.

They're also horrific situations for somebody accused when it's wrongful and this happens.

You know, there are motives all the time for false accusations.

And it's based on one person's word.

It's also based on one person's word when it's true.

So here's what we're getting at.

We're going to break some of this down.

The answer is yes, you can be charged with a crime and even convicted of a crime, because based on one person's statement, and that person could be the victim of the crime.

It could be a witness of the crime with the victim doesn't want to show up.

Think murder case or can't show up.

It happens all the time.

How can I be convicted on that person's say so?

So it gets sort of a fundamental question about what is evidence at trial.

It's a credibility battle.

That's all it is.

Well, what are the types of evidence that can come in at trial?

What's going to come in at trial is going to be this victim is going to have their testimony, their statement, and then if that's all there is, they're going to try and bolster it with other people who say that their credibility is right.

And it just becomes a battle of who's telling the truth.

The types of evidence we see at trial could be physical evidence.

You might have fingerprints, you might have DNA.

You might have a gun that they found on you like physical evidence.

Then you've got testimonial evidence, what people say they saw.

And then you have documents and all sorts of things that can come in to try to prove a case.

Then you have general categories, direct evidence.

I saw that.

Circumstantial evidence.

Here's all the stuff that happened as a result of that.

So it must have happened.

People are convicted of circumstantial evidence all the time.

But back to hearsay.

Just because somebody said it and that's the only evidence, it doesn't necessarily make it hearsay.

So what is hearsay?

Well, I mean, if I could go teach this in law school, this is the most confused area of evidence, I think.

Yeah, it's maybe four.

Four that, like, might be character evidence, might be worse.

But we're going to talk about hearsay, okay?

Because everybody knows, like you hear like on, you know, whether it's Mickey Howler on the Lincoln Lawyer screaming hearsay, it gets screwed up in courts.

It gets, I mean, real courts all the time.

Gets screwed up in law school all the time.

It gets screwed up on TV all the time, and it gets screwed up in barstool banter all the time.

Hearsay.

You want to give the definition?

It's an out of court statement offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

Is that right?

You left something out?

An out of court statement other than the one made by the declarant while testifying on the witness stand.

Offered to.

Prove the truth of the matter asserted.

All right, so look, an out of court statement means it's not testament.

Somebody didn't get on a witness stand and say it.

It's what somebody said before.

So for instance, I'm testifying or.

I'm asking you a question, Troy.

I'm going to direct your attention to December 1, 2005.

Remember that day?

Yes.

And you had a conversation with your mom that day.

Remember that?

Yes.

Tell us what she said.

She said.

Objection.

It's hearsay.

What mom said to Troy out of court is hearsay.

Now, there are exceptions to the hearsay, and it all depends on why you're using it.

So if I'm offering that to prove the truth of what your mom said.

So if your mom said it was snowing outside that day.

So, Troy, what did your mom tell you?

It was snowing outside that day.

All right, so let's say it's a case where it's an auto crash and it's relevant to prove that it was snowing outside that day.

Well, then it matters.

So the truth of that matters to why I'm offering it.

So the purpose of what I'm doing is trying to prove it was snowing.

Yeah.

That makes it hearsay.

But what did she tell you it was snowing out that day.

And I don't give a rip about whether it was snowing or not, or it's completely irrelevant whether it was snowing.

Or maybe I'm only offering it to show why I went out and shoveled.

Yeah, doesn't matter like what your mom said, it's just only to explain what the next person did.

It's not here.

Say, look, this is a complicated mess, but I get questions on it and that's why we're addressing it.

The hearsay rules are a complicated array of policy driven considerations.

We'll say, so sometimes hearsay, there's an exception.

Sometimes things are defined as not hearsay as a matter of course.

Sometimes even the lawyers don't know what hearsay is.

But I can tell you this, just because one person said it doesn't mean that you can't be charged.

And hearsay can support convictions when it comes in as an exception or it's defined as non hearsay.

So look, I'm not going to solve the hearsay problems of the world.

I would love to go teach it to lawyers in law school, but alas, that's for other people to do.

You got a question about hearsay or anything else, let us know right here@lawyertalkpodcast.com in the socials, send us a link or do whatever.