W. Curtis Preston: Whether we're talking a ransomware attack, natural

disaster, or other crisis, you need to have plans in place to recover

your critical systems and data.

One big question will be whether or not you should buy and manage the

software yourself or take advantage of disaster recovery as a service.

What are the trade-offs between running an in-house solution

versus outsourcing to a provider?

Prasanna and I will both share our perspectives on the pros

and cons of each approach.

My goal, as always, is to empower you to make the best choice for your

organization's needs and budget.

This podcast turns unappreciated backup admins into Cyber Recovery heroes.

This is the backup wrap up welcome to the show.

I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr.

Backup, and I have with me my deluge consultant Prasanna.

Molly, how's it going up there in, in Northern California

So today it's sunny and clear skies, so I can't complain.

It's a complete shift from what it was Sunday all day where we had, I think it

was like four and a half or five inches of rain and 55 mile per hour gusts of wind.

Uh, I lost power for a couple hours.

Uh, ended up hanging out in the car to most expensive cell

phone charger in the world,

W. Curtis Preston: That was pretty, that pretty good one.

That was a pretty good one.

Yeah.

It ha It hasn't been too, I mean it was, well, other than the

fact that I'm dealing with a new,

uh, minor roof leak, I'm super excited about that.

Um, we got, you know, I looked at like LA and there were parts of LA that

got three or four inches in an hour.

We got three or four inches over the weekend.

Which is a significant difference, right?

both, um.

You know, the amount you get and, and how, how long you get it, right?

And so I haven't seen too much, although I've talked to at least four people that

lost something so far in the storm, right?

I, I talked to somebody that lost a car, um, and two people lost an apartment

and one person that lost their house and they do not have, uh, flood insurance.

So, uh, that's not

who thinks in say right in California?

Oh yeah, I don't need flood insurance.

It barely ever rains

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I mean, there's a song, we wrote a song about that.

Right?

It never rains in California.

But, um, yeah.

So, well, uh, speaking of reasons that you might want to

have a disaster recovery plan,

Yeah,

W. Curtis Preston: uh,

on topic, right?

It's almost as if Mother Nature planned it.

W. Curtis Preston: Exactly, exactly.

So, um.

We, you know, we've been covering Dr here for actually for four weeks.

This is actually our part five because it's such an important concept.

And last time, you know, we talked about, um, you know, whether or not you wanted to

do a cold site, warm site, hot site, and, and now this is, you know, even a more.

Well, just as if you will.

Foundational concept.

And that is whether or not you want to use your, you know, basically

use some software, run it in your organization, whether you run it on-prem

or you run it in the cloud, or if you want to use some type of DR service.

I think it depends on whether the organization has a

skillset or even values disaster recovery.

I.

Like if you don't have a very critical workload or if you are

okay with having some outages or managing it on your own, or if you

don't even have the skillset, right.

Some people barely have a single IT generalist who can't focus on

DR with everything else going on.

Right?

I think depending on how.

The organization, like what they're composed of.

I think that sort of helps dictate like whether they should even try to build

it on their own and run it on their own, versus is it better for them to

go towards like a managed provider.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I, I think that's a perfect way to look

at sort of the first idea as, as of, you know, do backup is hard.

Right Back, you know, recovery's harder.

Right.

Uh, disaster recovery is an advanced recovery.

It's one thing to be able to say, Hey, recover this file, recover

this email, recover this server, even recover this folder that's

been destroyed in the server or this database that somebody deleted a table.

That is one level of, uh, skill.

And then a completely different level of skill is going to be, um, you

know, recovering an entire environment because there's way more than.

Recovering just the data.

There's way more than recovering the servers that the data's

going to reside on there.

You, you want to talk a little bit about the, the network side of things?

Yeah, so some of the things you have to worry

about is network connectivity.

So you might have public IP addresses.

How do you make sure that they are able to fail over at the right.

Point in time, or how do you make sure that your environment still gets the right

IP addresses, like your database server?

Does it have the right IP address and DNS entry such that when you bring

up the application in your DR site, it can still connect down to the

database without having to reconfigure a whole bunch of other things, right?

So all of these other things you have to worry about, and of

course with disaster recovery sites, you can't always just keep.

The same IP address up on both sides at the same time.

Right.

Things aren't always happy.

So how do you deal with sort of the process of Yes, before disaster strikes?

I still need access to those disaster recovery infrastructure.

Once the disaster strikes and now I need to recover, how do I make sure it looks

identical to what was there on the source?

So networking infrastructure, authentication infrastructure.

Right?

Your active directory servers, making sure those are all configured

and everything else, right?

So it's like you said, Curtis, it's not just data, it's not just the application.

It is that entire environment and how do I make sure that that is properly

configured after a disaster strikes?

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, it's, it, it's funny, I, I thought of this,

but, uh, Dr is to back up and, and restore as brisket is to, um.

Barbecue brisket is, is up at the top in terms of complexity

and difficulty and ease.

Ease with which you can totally destroy a perfectly good piece of meat.

You touched on a couple of things there.

You, you said both skill level and then also sort of what I like

to call the give a care factor.

Right.

Do,

Yeah.

W. Curtis Preston: There was a recently, I, I forgot who it was, but they were

talking about disaster recovery and things like that, and they were saying that.

Um, or perhaps they were talking about cybersecurity, but they were talking

about you need to have, uh, or I would say you need to have a recovery mindset.

Do does your company have a recovery mindset?

When you put in new infrastructure, does someone always raise their hand and say,

you know, has this been made part of the.

Uh, Dr.

Plan, right?

Uh, is ha ha Has anyone talked to Curtis Right?

A about this new, you know, this new part of the infrastructure?

And so is that the way your organization thinks, or have you

done, like many organizations have you deprioritized, backup.

And even beyond that, uh, deprioritized, uh, disaster recovery.

So if that's, you know, the,

It's hard, right?

W. Curtis Preston: because it's hard.

You know, we, we talk a lot on here about how backup is, you know, like nobody,

nobody, no little kid says, I want to grow up and be a backup administrator.

Right.

We love our backup

You should change that, Curtis.

W. Curtis Preston: audience.

Yeah.

I.

That's what, that's what's gonna happen,

I wanna be

W. Curtis Preston: love our

I wanna be like

W. Curtis Preston: you are.

Yeah, you are.

Why we're here, right?

We're here to help you do better at your job.

But those of you that are our core audience are really the exception, right?

So many companies don't have somebody that really wants to raise their

hand and wants to take on this really difficult job, and so backup.

Um, and, and also there's management that looks at backup and Dr.

And sees it just as a cost center and not a value center, they don't see it as

a revenue generating, um, organization.

Right.

Um, it's funny, I was was talking to a good friend of mine and they were talking

about, you know, cost cutting stuff that needs to happen in their company

and the, the higher ups were saying.

Um, they were talking about, well, referring to his department, which is it?

Well, you're not really revenue generating.

Um, and, and so, you know, you're deprioritized behind the company,

you know, behind the parts of the company that generate revenue.

And he's like, okay, except.

And he could be very, uh, he could be very sarcastic.

This guy, he's like, just, I'm just curious.

Can you point out any parts of the company that generated revenue without it?

Right.

Yeah.

W. Curtis Preston: I I was like, oh, yeah, that's, that's a great conversation.

Yeah.

So, so they look at, they look at that and they're like, oh, it's

not really generating your revenue.

It's, it's insurance.

Right.

Backup and Dr.

It.

It has been and always will be basically insurance and there will be, what's that

it's risk reduction.

Right?

That is what the purpose of backup and DRR.

Yeah.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

Yeah.

The risk of you losing everything.

Right?

And there will always be this pressure for some people within the company to

say, um, you know, I don't really see what value that it has, or, you know,

can't this, this here, that's good enough.

We've got backups, we've got a, you know, we, you know, Hey, look, look, we get, we,

we bought you a replicated, you know, we let, we let you know we're paying for a

replicated copy of the data in the cloud.

You know, all our data's sitting in S3 in object lock storage.

What more do you want?

Right?

Right.

And so if that's the attitude of your company, you really

have to look at ways where, um.

Where you can reduce complexity, reduce cost, um, and, and I, I

think that lends you more to the DR as a service, uh, way of things

you want, you want to talk about.

I, and before you move on, I think one of the

other important aspects there is.

As that IT person, right?

Sometimes companies might be more willing to allow you to

spend OPEX rather than CapEx.

So for you to go and say, yes, I want to go contract out with the

service provider to deal with my Dr.

Because then I don't need to buy infrastructure.

I don't need to worry about that.

It's not hitting my books.

Right.

All of those other aspects, and so that might make it easier for some companies

to sort of move in the direction of, yes, I am gonna use a managed DR solution.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

That, because when you look at do, doing it yourself, right?

And th this goes back to, um, you know, we, we, we've had a couple episodes where

we talked about whether or not you want, wanna do this on-prem, or you wanna do

this in the cloud, whether or not you wanna do a cold site, whether you, you

know, you wanna do a hot or a warm site.

The, the, um.

Anything that falls under, like the sort of that idea where you're going to

roll it yourself with your own hardware, that's gonna be a big CapEx expenditure,

a cap, a big CapEx expenditure.

Which is not going to add anything to the company.

Anything other than peace of mind, like you said, risk reduction earlier,

Yeah.

W. Curtis Preston: but if you.

the challenge,

W. Curtis Preston: if you, if you did the, but if you did the service idea, right?

So you're, so you're gonna spend all this money and, and you're

not gonna get a lot to it.

So if you did the service idea, this is what you're saying, if

I understand correctly, right?

Is if you do the service idea, it, it's still a cost, but it's a cost.

It's a little bit each month.

And they don't have to, they don't have to account for it in the same way.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think that's the key, right, is in your books, right, in your

financial records, the way you account for an opex is different than CapEx.

And so sometimes it makes it easier from a budgeting perspective as well.

So Curtis, I know we were just talking about sort of, okay, what are some

reasons to go towards managed service, but what are some of the pros that

people should consider when they want to roll their own DR solution

or manage their own DR solution?

W. Curtis Preston: Control, right?

You and, and this is control.

In many aspects, right?

So you get to control, um, exactly what hardware is used.

You get to control where that hardware is.

You get to control how that hardware is accessed from a, from a, both a physical

aspect as well as a cybersecurity aspect.

Um.

You know, you get to control, let me rephrase.

You get to know, right?

And this is a big, this is no

touch, feel, and hug.

W. Curtis Preston: underline.

Well, you No, no.

You get to know exactly where that hardware is and isn't.

I'm alluding to the OVH.

Disaster where people paid for physically separated backups and they

thought they had physically separated backups, and it turned out that just

meant that the servers were over in the corner in the same data center.

When you buy your own hardware, you decide exactly where that hardware's going,

and so you know exactly where it is.

You know, you, you can touch it.

And yeah.

You, you alluded to it earlier, like, you know, you got this touchy feeling.

There is a, there is a control aspect.

And those who, um, have I told you my control freak knock, knock joke.

No.

W. Curtis Preston: So, so, knock, knock,

Who's there?

W. Curtis Preston: control freak.

Now you're supposed to say control freak who?

See,

that's it.

That's, that's the joke.

so that's my control freak, knock, knock joke.

Um, if you're, this is sort of alluding to what I said in the beginning,

if your attitude towards the cloud.

Is one of fear, uncertainty, and doubt, right?

I, I, I interact with, uh, people on LinkedIn.

We just have a different opinion about the cloud.

You know, anybody who's listened to this podcast knows that I'm very pro

cloud and I was that way before I.

Um, worked at Druva.

I'm now that way after having worked at Druva.

I think that Dr is the killer app for the cloud.

Right.

And I know, so you're, you're, you're rolling your eyes a little bit.

I, and I know that not everybody could do the cloud, but, but

let me go back to my point.

Okay.

And that is if you think the cloud sucks, right?

If you think it's insecure, if you think it's costly, if you think it's

whatever, if you, if, if everything you think about the cloud is just negative,

then you're not gonna wanna do DR as a service because it's most likely

going to be, uh, done using the cloud.

Now there might be, there probably are some MSPs.

That will run a DR as a service with your own hardware.

Um, but that, that's a, that's a, in, in this conversation, mainly

we're talking about either doing it with your own hardware or doing

it in the cloud as a service.

Now, what was with the big grin?

I wanna

yeah, no, the big grid was, there are other

pros to running your own Dr.

Um, I know you alluded to some of it, right?

Uh, when you were just talking right now, it's if the cloud

cannot run your workload.

Then it doesn't make sense to have a cloud Dr.

Right?

So you might have an application or an operating system or some specific

hardware that is not compatible with the cloud version, right?

In which case you're gonna roll your own.

So that's kind of one thing.

The other case for rolling your own is you may not have the ability to

move all your bits into the cloud.

Just the amount of data you have, the change rate, other

W. Curtis Preston: perspective.

Physics.

Yeah.

From a physics perspective, that may not be feasible.

Uh, the other thing also is you might need, based on regulatory requirements

to always have two DR sites.

I.

And so failing over to the cloud and trying to bring back your data from

the cloud becomes very expensive.

I think a lot of folks who fail over into the cloud, I think once they fail over, I

don't know if they really wanna come back.

Although most vendors say, yeah, you could bring your data back.

I think trying to bring your data back from an egress cost or just the

amount of time it takes to bring all that data back may be too expensive.

Versus, Hey, I have data.

I can just bring my own other equipment into my data center, copy the data

locally, and then just ship my hardware back to the production site.

So I think those are some of the benefits potentially of rolling your own.

That may or may not apply for you if you go to the cloud.

W. Curtis Preston: yeah, I, I didn't have those as benefits as on-prem.

I had those as disadvantages of the cloud.

Oh,

W. Curtis Preston: Um, yeah, but, but your, but your, but

your point is valid, right?

Not everybody can use the cloud, right?

Not everybody can use the cloud from a, from a, um, you know,

for, for various reasons, right?

You, it, it just might not be possible.

You might have, uh, gov data governance rules.

It says, I can't, I can't have data that leaves this, this vicinity.

And the, you know, your nearest, uh.

Uh, AWS region is in another country.

Right.

You might have that problem.

Uh, and then, you know, physics, you know, I, I, I've spent an entire

career just battling physics, right.

You, physics will win and there is only so much data that you can send over the,

over the wire, uh, either way, right?

Um, I will say that it's a very.

The companies that have that problem, I'm not sure they

have any good solution to them.

I'll agree with you that this is an advantage of doing it yourself

in that you can buy enough.

Network hardware and computing hardware to, to do this.

Whereas you can't really do that in the cloud, right?

So if you, if you know, if you're like, like I, I live in San

Diego, we do biotech here, right?

I've met companies over here that are making exabytes a week.

Okay, so if, if, if you fall into that category, there is no amount of

bandwidth that is going to be sufficient because they're making exabytes of

new data that that doesn't compare in any way to the previous week's data.

And, uh, they can't get rid of the previous week's data.

They need to keep both of 'em and they.

Um, and when you, when you do de-dupe of that, there's nothing to de-dupe.

It's all new stuff, right?

New data.

W. Curtis Preston: And so the only way when you are gigantic and

gigantic is a relative term, right?

If you are so large that you, that the concept of buying enough

internet bandwidth to get to and from the cloud, it's just like,

that's just crazy talk, right?

That.

The only way you can do that is I, I still think that the way to do

that is by using replication, but it's just you have to own the wire.

Right?

You have to have

people lay dark fiber

W. Curtis Preston: get

their sites.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

They like dark fiber between two different locations, hopefully far enough that they

wouldn't suffer the same natural disaster.

Uh, but not so far that the, you know, the latency's gonna be an issue.

That's really only possible, um, if, if you own all the infrastructure.

Right?

Um, and, and, and by the way, somewhere between, right?

So there's, I'm gonna, you know, you know how I like to categorize

people, I like to categorize, right?

So there's a, I'm gonna say like, I'm just gonna make up numbers, okay.

These are totally like pulled outta, you know, aware numbers.

All right.

I'm gonna say that like 75% of the world, there is no way

in earth that they can do DR.

Cheaper or faster or better than they can do it in the cloud.

Okay.

That's, that's, I, I'm, I'm making up the percentage, but I'm gonna say that

the vast majority of organizations in the world can do DR in the

cloud cheaper, faster, and better than they can do it themselves.

On the opposite end of that, there's a 1.5% of the organizations in the world

that there's no way in hell, there's no amount of bandwidth in the world

to, to, to, to do DR in the cloud.

That leaves 23.5% of organizations that in my totally made up statistic, who could go

either way and they could lay dark fiber and own the infrastructure, or they could

go into the cloud and those are the people that really need to do a cost benefit

analysis and a give a care analysis.

Is this really something that we want to do and do it right.

Pay all the, you know, the money for that, or is this something

that we wanna do with a service?

What do you think of that?

and no, I.

Other than the exact percentages, I think your categorization is right, and also

W. Curtis Preston: You, you don't agree with

size of each.

No, no, no, no.

And just the relative size of those categories I agree with.

I think if it's like 75% or 60%, I think that's like right.

But like you said, I think in general, just the scale of those and the

differences I think is accurate.

Now the one.

Point I was gonna mention is, uh oh.

When people think about DR as a service and using the cloud, I

think they should go back and think, let's go back and talk about email.

People used to manage and host their own email servers on premises, and then over

time they're like, Hey, I should just use Microsoft 365 or Google Workspaces.

Why am I running my own infrastructure and managing and

dealing with all those issues?

If there's a service for me, yes, it might be more expensive, but

I don't have to worry about all these things in a similar fashion.

I think with DR as a service, that becomes a great workload to sort

of offload and say, Hey, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

I can now use someone else.

And then the other thing to consider too is there are some companies who might

be on premises and slowly starting to migrate to the cloud and they're trying

to figure out what workload should I move?

Backup is a great workload because like you said, Curtis, at the very beginning,

it's a risk reduction thing, right?

And so moving that workload to the cloud makes sense.

I think in a similar fashion, moving Dr from on-premises where you're managing

the infrastructure and everything else and moving it to the cloud also

makes a lot of sense because you don't have to worry about messing with

your production environment, any new requirements or differences, right?

All that stuff.

You're still operating production as it is.

You're keeping your DR copy in the cloud and you can do testing,

you can get comfortable, and then you could figure out later on,

Hey, am I gonna move my production workload to the cloud now or not?

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, agreed.

Um, the, you know, I was thinking about the percentages that I was throwing out.

One of the reasons that I threw the, what did I say, 75%?

I

actually think that percentage is actually probably larger.

The, the reason, the reason why I think that percentage

may actually be larger is that.

If I recall correctly, like, not like, at least in the us, I don't

know if it's the same way everywhere,

Percent are

W. Curtis Preston: in the US 90% of businesses are small businesses, right?

They're SMBs, s small medium businesses, and SMBs, the cloud man, like it's gonna

be really hard to do it faster, cheaper, or more secure than doing it in the cloud

so that that 75% may be as high as 90%.

Regarding the, you know, DR.

And backup being perfect workloads in the cloud.

You know, I agree with a

caveat and that is.

With a caveat on that is I don't agree if all you're gonna

do is lift and shift, right?

If all you do is take your net backup server, your Veeam server

and just move it into the cloud, that is not necessarily going to

add any value to your organization.

Uh, in fact, all it will do.

You know, for the most part is add cost.

Um, it, it's one thing to send a copy of your data to the cloud,

but actually moving your backup infrastructure if all you're doing

is taking your favorite on-prem.

Piece of backup software and then putting it in a VM in the cloud, it, all that's

gonna do is increase your costs and it's gonna lower your, you know, your, uh,

carbon footprint on-prem, but just move it up there and you're going from buying

servers to renting servers and, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So, if what you're saying is, you know, just leveraging a service based.

Company, right?

A SaaS company, DAD, DPAs, bass, dra, whatever a acronym you wanna say, backup

data protection or DR as a service.

If you've, if you've got a company who's figured out the economics so that they

can offer you a, a backup as a service or DR as a service for less money than

you can do it yourself, then yeah.

I completely agree that, that that's a great way to do it.

So since you threw out that stat earlier about SMBs in the

US being 90% of companies for those.

SMBs, typically they are using some SaaS service.

Say for their email, they're probably using something for

storing their data, right?

Uh, for synchronizing, be SharePoint or Google Drive or other things like that.

What does Dr.

As a service look for those types of users?

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, it's not there.

So, so generally when we're talking about DR as a service, we're talking about it

for your own infrastructure that you.

Own and manage, whether it's sitting in, uh, EC2 or you know,

Azure VMs or you sitting on, you know, VMs in your data center.

We don't generally talk about, and we, and we should talk about, just

for a minute here, uh, about DR four, let's say micro Microsoft 365.

Um, there really isn't anything for that, right?

Like, like, pick your favorite cloud service or pick your favorite SaaS

offering and just, and, and I do think it should be backed up, right?

Definitely.

But, um, even if, uh, lemme just get really down for a minute, let's say.

You've been back, you've been doing what I said, and you're back.

You're backing up Microsoft 365 and then Microsoft goes outta business tomorrow.

There is no direct way to restore that data to anywhere

else other than Microsoft 365.

You could probably, assuming your backup software has this ability create PSTs.

Of each user and then import those to something like Google Workspace.

Yeah.

W. Curtis Preston: Um, and, but, but like, I think of like,

um, I think of like Salesforce.

Is there any, is there any way to download that data, like at least with

365, 1 of the typical restore options is to restore to A PST, but you think

like Salesforce, is there a restore option in any of these products other

than to restore into Salesforce?

I don't know.

You know what?

This is a great Prasanna.

I think that everybody should go ask that question of their vendors.

yeah, it's something that we don't think about,

but might be a huge blind spot.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, there, there's no might.

It's a huge blood spot.

There's no, there's no might about it.

One other area, and this is quite possibly the area as to whether or not you think.

A SaaS based backup or DR.

System is appropriate for you and that is your opinions about security and the

cloud or security in the data center.

I will give you my opinion.

Feel free to use your own, and I, I'd love to hear your opinion maybe

unless it disagrees with that.

Here's my opinion.

After having been in a whole bunch of companies, I will take the security,

the cybersecurity of the average cloud vendor over the cybersecurity of the

average data center from Joe's data center any day of the week, right?

And, and that is because companies who are specifically companies that

are in the data protection space, they know that if they go down, if they

disappear because they got attacked, they are done as a company, right?

This is their raison detra, right?

Um, the, and I know I totally pronounce that.

Apologies to anyone who actually speaks French.

Um, rah, I don't know.

I don't know.

I totally make that up.

I really, again, further apologies.

Um, it is French, right, not Latin, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's French.

I believe it's French, I should

W. Curtis Preston: This is what, this is what happens when I throw out fancy

Don't say it a.

W. Curtis Preston: Um.

Absolutely.

All right.

So, um, yeah, they know it is their entire reason for being right.

So they know they have to get cybersecurity, right?

And, and, and they're making money on this.

This is their, the, the reason for their company versus you.

Your company may or may not see cybersecurity as like the only

thing between you and the wolves.

Right.

Um, and so it just might, it's sort of like what we said

earlier about backup and Dr.

Where does cybersecurity fit in the realm of things?

Hopefully it's in the for because of everything that's been happening recently,

but I know that I should see that.

In a cloud vendor.

Again, I'm just saying on average, don't ever believe anything.

Don't ever trust anything, you know, test everything, do

penetration testing on your vendors.

Um, and, and hopefully your vendors do penetration testing as well,

and hopefully that it will provide you results under NDA, et cetera.

Um, so there you go.

That's my opinion.

And I, by and I know because I'm on, you know, LinkedIn and Reddit, I know that.

There are people who think the exact opposite of the cloud.

That the cloud is just a bunch of leaks.

The cloud is where you put your data if you want it to get leaked.

Um, what's your thought?

Yeah, I think I agree with you that for the majority, a cloud

vendor is going to have a much better security posture than someone on premises

because people, once again, it just goes back to skill sets and time, right?

You don't have time.

To focus on cybersecurity day in and day out when you have

10,000 other things to do.

Right.

So, and keeping up with the latest threats and everything else going on,

versus a company which is dedicated.

I'm not going to go to a random spot and just be like,

Hey, I have this broken bone.

Can you fix it?

Versus, Hey, I'm going to go to a specialist and get that bone set in.

Right?

Unless that person who I go to is like a really smart person and

maybe they have like wilderness skills and can set a bone, right?

But you know what I mean, right?

You wanna go to the person who that's their day in and day out, right?

This is what they're doing, and

W. Curtis Preston: surgeon you're saying.

Yes.

W. Curtis Preston: Exactly.

you wanna go to that person who is a specialist.

This is what they think about.

They're trying to figure out ways that things will break.

And so those are the people you wanna trust versus trying to roll your own.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, exactly.

Um, you know, my, my orthopedic surgeon's name is Dr.

Stark,

Does he have a thing on his chest?

Does he?

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, yeah.

A little, little,

the nuclear

W. Curtis Preston: arc reactor.

Yeah.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.

Um, I, I can't think of anything else that we would want to cover on.

I mean, this is a giant, uh, basically we spent 40 minutes saying it depends.

Right.

This is, this is your decision.

You gotta think about cost, you gotta think about risk.

You gotta think about, you know, um, you know, you talked about

the, um, uh, CapEx versus opex.

You gotta think about the, the, the skill level that you have in your company.

And, and, and again, I don't have a better word for it, other than the give

a care factor in your company, how much the people of your company care about Dr.

Versus, um, you know.

The, the other things that are going to take their attention away from Dr.

And in the end, make a decision for your organization.

Can you think of anything else to say there?

No, I think that was a good summary.

W. Curtis Preston: Okay.

All right.

Well, thanks for, thanks for being here again today.

Prasanna.

Likewise, Curtis.

Uh, yeah.

Uh, not too depressing of a topic today, so that's good.

Other than it all depends.

W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, it's a giant.

It depends.

And thank you so much folks for listening.

Uh, you know, you are why we do this, and hopefully we can turn you into a cyber

recovery hero here at the backup wrap up.

That is a wrap.