Welcome to the Creative Switch, the podcast inspiring the sensibly successful to switch on their unexpressed creativity for a more fulfilled life. Now what do you do when you are struggling to find your creative balance? Today we'll be finding you solutions to this issue with my guest marketing project manager turned creativity coach, Nina Lenton. And if you're looking to turn your creative inspiration into action, don't forget to listen right to the end of the episode and catch up with my creative adventures. This is where I share the challenges I encounter and how acting on the nuggets of wisdom I've learned from my guests and applying those learnings is helping me to move forward in my own creative projects. If you're feeling out of balance, you'll hear not one but two nuggets of advice from Theo Michaels, who offers a pragmatic approach, and Pernilla Hughes, a heartfelt one. Before we get to that, do remember to head to my website nikkivallance.com where I've gathered even more insights and advice from my guests in your free guide to Seven Common Creative Challenges and how to overcome them. And now it's time for some creative news in the Edge. Looking at this theme of imbalance and how this can impact your creative work, I've uncovered some perhaps unsurprising news. An article from Creatives Unite raises concerns about the long standing issue with mental health in the creative sector. Creatives Unite is a platform providing insight into culture and the creative industries and is part of the EU work plan for culture. It references research published in the International Journal of Communication and led by Professor Mark of Deuze from the University of Amsterdam. He says "What makes media work special- Creativity, autonomy, Storytelling - is also what traps people in cycles of self sacrifice." The same sentiment is borne out by Francesca Grech. She says, "I've been struggling with this lately and have decided to stop chasing too much, for the time being, as it was taking its toll on my mental health." Francesca, an illustrator and picture bookmaker, is one of several creatives quoted in a brilliant piece earlier this year in the Creative Boom discussing the current economic and technical landscape for independent studios and freelance creatives. And yet, despite these difficulties for individuals, the Creative Pec, that is the Creative Industries Policy and Evidence Centre, has commissioned an investigation into skills shortages in the sector. This organisation, led by Newcastle University, provides independent research and policy recommendations to the UK creative industries. It seems they've discovered there is a misalignment between the sector's needs and and those of the workforce. Skills development and education needs to catch up. In the meantime, a practical solution is to develop a portfolio of projects or income generating opportunities to support yourself and your creativity. You can find all the links in the show notes. For a more in depth exploration on the art and science of creative living, why not join in with the conversation at the Bold types on Substack or message me on Instagram @nikki _Vallance. I'd love to hear from you. And listen next to discover how my guest has shifted the balance between her career as a project manager and her creativity and retrained as a coach to help others do the same, Nina Lenton.

Hi Nina, and welcome to the Creative Switch.

Hello.

I want you first of all to just introduce yourself and tell everybody who you are and what you do.

Okay, well, I'm Nina Lenton. I'm a project manager and coach and I work with creatives and creative thinkers, people who have a lot of ideas. I help them to get clarity, take action, find head space so that they can achieve their business goals and they can also enjoy being creative.

Fantastic. And something I ask all of my guests, and you're going to be coming at this from a slightly different angle because of the work that you do, but I ask everybody, what does creativity mean to them? And it can be the word, the definition, the feeling, the whatever it is that it means in your life.

It's actually something I've done a bit of thinking on myself the last year or so and I've actually got my own definition of creativity. I think there are two bits to creativity for me. There's creative expression and there's creative thinking. And I think both of those for me are very important part of who I am. And I notice that in other people as well. So creative expression would be people who love to write or draw or take photos or something that maybe people don't necessarily think they're creative, but things like cooking or gardening, which actually do require creativity. And then on the other side, there's creative thinking where everyone contributes in some way to the development of ideas. So whether they are those people who have lots of ideas or whether actually they're the person who helps to shape them and plays an important role in bringing that creation, that idea into being.

Yes, we're aligned in so many ways. But I definitely agree with you that lots of people have got an impression that creativity is a very narrow thing and it's all about culture and making an art and obviously that is definitely part of it. And as you say, that's the expression part of it. But we can think creatively we can act creatively, we can live creatively if we tap into a particular part of ourselves. So I'm interested to know from your point of view. Obviously, you have your work and you're supporting all those people who want to be creative, maybe as a job or in their business, but what do you do that's creative for you and how you express yourself creatively?

Well, I've got a few things, actually, so there's one thing I enjoy doing is writing. So sometimes that takes the form of creative writing, sometimes that's writing blogs. But I like to express myself in writing. I also love photography, so I actually set aside a time every week where I go for a walk and I take photos. These days I usually take them with my phone, but I do also have a digital camera that I sometimes take out and do a big session of taking lots and lots of photos. So I enjoy my photography. And then the other thing I've done started doing a little bit more and telling people about is my doodles. So I doodle about penguins and I doodle about ideas.

Okay. And do you know when that started? Not just the doodling, but all of those different avenues. Can you think back to a moment when that became obvious to you that you needed to have those outlets?

Yeah, I think both the writing and the photography were things I used to do when I was a child. But over the years, you know how it is. You get into doing all your qualifications. And then I went off to university and got a job, and it kind of disappeared. It was never really something I did. And then I gradually started exploring things when I waslooking at different kinds of work maybe I could do. And I came across this thing called the 30 day challenge, where a group of people, I think there were about 200 of us, we all signed up to do this challenge, which had weekly exercises and meetups online. And the idea was that every day for 30 days, you would work on a creative project. So you had people who were doing things like photography, people who actually changed careers because they did it and realized that actually somebody would pay them for it. In my case, I started a blog. So I wanted to start a blog that I didn't really quite know where it was going to go. I wanted to start a blog and write every day. And I actually surprised myself. I thought I was going to write something factual every day. I wrote all these little creative things that I ended up calling creative snippets because they were a little story that just came into my head as I started typing. And then from there having done that, it just led me to do all sorts of other creative challenges. So for example, photography challenge where I took photos every day for a month on a particular theme. So I did a month of photos that were, that were of green things. And at the end of that month I had this lovely collection of all sorts of weird and wonderful objects and things that I'd found in nature that were green. And that particular one I also did with some other people. So other people that I'd met doing this 30 day challenge and some of them joined in and they also did it and each of us shared it in our own blogs or social media places. And then at the end I collected them all together and you could see all these different green things that everyone had photographed and it was, yeah, it was quite fascinating.

And was that just a play thing, do you think you were playing and so you were freer to be creative or did you have a goal with it?

There wasn't really a goal with it actually. I think it was just experimenting with something because at the time I was doing very busy full time. I can't remember whether I had a job or a contract because I've done quite a lot of contracting in the last sort of 15 years. But I had very busy jobs that I was commuting to. And sometimes that was a nice way of just spending 20 minutes when I got home doing something that, where I switched off and I could play with something. And I think the, the other thing that it gave me was a community of people. It introduced me to other people who liked doing creative things, which was fascinating to me. But it also introduced me to people who I realized could do with my help. Because although I was creative and expressing myself creatively, actually my brain liked to put together plans and think through details. And some of those people, when I spoke to them about what they were doing, said that they didn't like doing that. And, and I realized, here's a thing, there's something that I could experiment with. You know, I was never going to become a published author or a professional photographer, but knowing that I could help people be creative, actually that was something I could explore and I could start putting that out there for people to say, oh actually, yes, I could do with some help planning that thing or, or making that thing happen.

So you connected the two sides of yourself and spotted a bit of a gap or a need. Was that the the germ of the thing that you do now in that you offer that service to support people?

Yes, it was. I credit it to one conversation, actually, that I was talking to somebody who said, oh, yeah, but I hate all of the planning and all of that stuff. That was actually the moment when I thought, yes, I'm going to do something with this. So I think it's taken me a lot longer to find my definition of creativity and to really be able to explain it. I mean, that has only been the last year, but over the last 10 years, I've experimented with all sorts of different ways of using my skills and different ways of expressing myself to arrive at the mixture I've got now and where I feel like actually that's quite a comfortable place to be and I feel like there are things I can do in each of those areas.

Yeah, sure. So I'm really curious, actually, about your work background and how having that opportunity to express yourself creatively made a difference to work. I mean, you already talked about how it was a bit of a de stressor at the end of the day. You could just play and switch off. But is there anything that you think you are conscious of that altered the way work was for you because of the fact that you were being creative for this little snapshot of time as you got home?

So you mean in. In the times when I was working full time, one thing that springs to mind is I was working in marketing and communications as a project manager. And I think there were two things. One is that because I was working in a very regulated industry where I was working with medical terminology and everything I wrote had to be approved by people if it was to go into the outside world. So actually having an outlet where I could just say something that just came into my head and put it out into the world without other people having to check, it was actually a very nice thing to be able to do alongside my work.

Yeah.

And I think the other thing, because one of the things I was doing was writing, I discovered that if I had something really tricky that I was having to write, I often had to write documents or plans or. Or things that took quite a bit of mental energy to think about. And sometimes some of them could be challenging, I didn't really know where to start with them. And so what I found is that actually because I'd now got this skill of being able to sit down and write something for 20 minutes, that was quite nice, it actually helped me when I came to write difficult things because if I was really stuck, I'd just say, okay, I'm just going to take 15, 20 minutes, I'm going to look out the window, I'm going to write about the trees or something. And actually just by doing that, it somehow got my brain started and then my brain got to this tricky task and went, ah, yes, now I know where to start, that's fine. And I still do that now sometimes if I'm really stuck, I'll just do a bit of creative writing to get my brain warmed up.

That's brilliant. Do you know anything about what's actually going on there? Like I guess if you were going for a run, you start by perhaps walking first and it gets your muscles ready. Do you know why the brain can benefit from that crossover between the creative and the work based writing?

No. I mean, I don't really know much about the science behind it. How that works in terms of the neurons and all the things in the brain, I don't know. I've not, I've not actually looked into that.

No. Well, it obviously worked. So I guess if you were advising somebody and they were stuck, one of the things that they could do is exactly that. They could try that and see if it helps them. So now I really want to know how you do actually help people. So you have this community which helped you, gave you an idea for work that you could do that would be benefiting people. But how did you get from being in full time or contract work in marketing and communications to becoming a coach who coaches creatives? Because that's a journey you've been on.

Yes. I'm sure you must have seen the diagram where they say that progress isn't that straight line from A to B. It's sort of got all the wobbly bits in between and I definitely had all the wobbly bits in between. So actually quite consistently alongside that I had certainly up until last year I had been doing other marketing, communications, freelance work. So the part of me where I was helping other people and where I was doing creative things myself, that had always been a smaller part. When I first had that realization, when I was doing the 30 day challenge, the next contract I took was part time. So it meant that I did then have a bit of extra time to, to play with whatever I wanted to, which meant that I could actually take on the occasional client to help them and for me, kind of for me to explore how I could help them. So, so one of the first people I helped at that time, she was doing A round Britain trip. She was very creative and she's got all sorts of different things she was doing, but she decided to do this fundraising trip, but her brain couldn't. She couldn't do the planning. She had all these ideas for what she wanted to do and how. She wanted to get media attention for what she was doing, but she didn't know how to plan it because it just seemed too big. And so one of the first clients I had for that, I met up with her, sat down, and when I say it, it feels like it's really easy and obvious, but I know it's not obvious to other people that I literally just looked at her plan and said, oh, yeah, you've got a few different phases there. You've got that phase, that phase and that phase. And then helped her to break that down into smaller bits and think about all the things that went into it. So from there, I then, over the next. Probably over the next few years, carried on with my contracting, but I was doing that alongside it, so I'd have the occasional client I was working with on a particular challenge they were having. I was also doing some creative writing and my own stuff as well, and. And then I had a baby, which, you know, that completely throws life into something completely different. But then when I. After a year of maternity leave, I went back to my freelance life.

Yeah.

And in the course of that, as I was gradually getting used to looking after a small child, balancing that with work, I found my way back to the creating and what I now call untangling, which is helping people with their big ideas and helping them turn that into something. My daughter's about to turn eight, so that was about seven years ago. So over the course of the last seven years, I've evolved that. And then last year I decided to train in coaching skills to add to what I was already doing. So I did an Associate coaching diploma, which means I just have an extra thing that I can offer when I work with clients, a different technique to use when I'm speaking to them. And I also did a certification in something called Creative id, which talks about creative thinking styles. And it means that, again, I can apply that to clients, sometimes to teams as well, to help them think about how they generate ideas and who's involved in the process.

So, yeah, we never finish, do we? We're always learning.

No.

Sounds like you've reached a place where things have become a little clearer in that you know exactly who you're helping, how you're helping them. You're equipping yourself to do that, even better by learning new skills and doing the qualifications. So have you got something that you would say is the key thing that you're helping people with? What are maybe the top three things that people find difficult when people are wanting to be creative as a job? So they have something that they do that they want to be a business and make them money, what are the key things that most people struggle with?

I think if you're talking about somebody who's got a lot of ideas, that's the first challenge. They've just got so many different ideas, either for directions they could go in or for specific things within that business. So, I mean, even, you know, they might even have lots of different ideas for ways they want to do their marketing. And so being overwhelmed with all of the different things they could do and wanting to do all of them right.

Now, so that I recognize that.

Well, I mean, I do it myself as well. So this is the thing. You know, sometimes they say you teach other people what you need to know yourself, don't they? So the first thing that I do is to help them get clarity on actually where do they want to focus, whether it's a direction for their business, whether it's a specific project or a service within it, or whether it's a marketing channel that they're trying to set up. So that's the clarity bit. And, and then what they might find is that they don't know where to start, even once they've said, right, that's the thing I'm going to do. They just can't figure out because it all, again, it all feels overwhelming that there's so much to do. There's this amazing end point. They can see this endpoint. They've got this vision of where they want to be, but they can't see how to get from where they are now to this place in the end that they want to reach. And so where I help is help them take action ultimately by coming up with something that's specific to them, because we all work in different ways. Interestingly, one of the things I have come up quite a bit is people will say to me, oh, actually I think I might have adhd. Or I've recently been diagnosed with adhd. So I come across that quite a bit now. Not, not everybody that I work with, but basically everyone's brains work differently.

Yeah.

So that while I might have an amazing system for getting my own stuff done, I know that it's not necessarily going to work for other people. So what I do is work with somebody else to say, okay, you know, are you a morning person? How do you work with deadlines? Even down to if I give you a plan, would you prefer it on a Word document or do you like spreadsheets or do you want it yellow or whatever. So I work with them to basically to come up with some kind of plan that works for them. And then sometimes I might sort of hold their hand with it because they don't want to be left with this big scary plan. They almost don't even want to have that look ahead. They just want right what am I doing this week or this month? That's the kind of helping them to actually move that thing forwards.

Yeah.

And then I think the final bit of the puzzle is that actually if someone's very creative so they've got all these ideas, whether it's for their business or for side projects, that actually sometimes they get so bogged down with all the day to day stuff that they're doing that they don't have time to then come up with new ideas or just to have that quiet and that space to percolate and to evolve things. And you know, part of the challenge then ongoing is managing that because got the clarity, you started doing something, but actually something new comes in into your brain or an opportunity from elsewhere. And it's how to fit that in as well. I worked with someone who was a copywriter and an aspiring artist and she just found that she never had time to do her art, but she really, really wanted to. And so as I worked with her, it sort of gave her, kind of gave her permission to herself to say, okay, I'm going to take Thursday morning and I'm gonna do my art and I'm gonna sign up for this class and I'm going to go and talk to so and so about this exhibition that where I could have a couple of paintings. And it set her little goals to do there and it gave her permission to play, to have that creative space. It sort of almost completed the cycle of going through and actually being able to just generate new ideas and put them back into a system.

I mean I can identify both from my clients, but also for myself that there are definitely different phases, as you, you mentioned earlier, of a creative project, of being creative. And I think sometimes people feel if they're not doing something creative, they're not being creative. It's so important to have that free headspace with no agenda. Because if you don't experience anything, you have nothing to base your expression on. You have to have the bits that are coming in like, oh, what's green in the world? Because then if you're focusing on the end goal, you don't see all the green things. You only see the things that are obviously green. I guess it's a bit like when you're an artist, you're taught to look rather than to imagine what you think is there. You're actually just taught to look at what is there and you'll be surprised at what you see. And I think it's the same thing when we're trying to unravel what's going on in our heads.

Yeah. So I have this doodle that has a thought, you know, so you're out and about, you're getting input, you have a thought, and maybe it turns into a creation because you're an artist or you want to write about it or maybe it turns into an idea that, oh, actually, I could do that. And then the idea turns into a thing eventually.

Yeah.

So it's. Yeah. So I've got this little doodle that I do, that one. That's what it reminded me of.

Fantastic. So how do you structure your support for people? How do you offer it? Because different people do different things, different lengths of time. So how does it work?

What I'm doing at the moment certainly is I start with what I call an untangling session, because generally people will come to me because they need some clarity, because they got all tangled up. They can't see what to do next. So you can't plan and take action until you know what you're doing. So that's why I start with an untangling session. And that's an hour and a half session. And then we look at whatever it is that they need to look at. So it might be that they're choosing an idea. It might be that actually they have got a big idea and it's going to take a bit more thinking to get to a plan. So they want to clarify the scope of it. I worked with somebody who's got a lot of projects she'd done in the past, and she was still showing those on a website. And she kind of wanted to let go of them and talk about something new, but she couldn't see where everything fitted together that she was trying to do. So what we did, she sent me an email with a long list of all the things she was doing, all the things she wanted to do, and I mapped them out for her, and then we talked about them. And then by doing that, she was able to say, oh, yeah, actually, I don't need to do that. Or I can take that off my website. And so since working with me on that untangling session, that's what she's been able to do. And then it depends on what someone wants after that. So it might be that that's enough for them. And actually once a quarter or, you know, a few times a year, they might want to come back and refresh that and get a bit more clarity, or they might decide that actually they want some ongoing support. And then I tend to do that more bespoke. I don't actually have a signature package or anything because people are so different. Sometimes people might want six weeks of coaching because they just want to talk something through and figure it out. They've already got their burning idea and it's literally just, I want to do that and I need somebody to talk to every week about it. And then I can also do. Sometimes I will work with clients who I update websites and do blogs for and things, but I do that a bit less often than the support and the coaching.

Yeah. Okay. So going back to that balance question that you started when you were talking about the transition, obviously different things caused some changes in direction, like your life changes when you have a family. But do you have a sense of the percentage of time you were spending in your. I'm going to call it old job, but you know what I mean, in your profession. And then at what point it flipped over, if it has flipped over, and how different it feels focusing on the thing you want to do versus the thing that's earning you money? Because I think that is a point in time when people have seen somebody like you, you've given them that support, they're very clear on what they want, but they can't do it yet because they've got to be sensible. So is there a point when you can see that in your own journey and when you recognize that that happens for people as well?

I was going to say it's probably a tricky one because I'm actually not sure I'm at that point at the moment. The way I see it is that it is, as you say, it's a balance. And I think that now, having worked for myself in this way for, well, more than 10 years now. I always see it as kind of phases. So sometimes I might be working very hard on a project that's maybe in my old work or I'm doing something perhaps a little bit more just for the money than, than for the love of doing it. You know, there's always got to be some sort of foundation. So for me, whenever I work with clients I will ask what their foundation is because know, it might be that they've got those three days of freelance work or a part time job because you need to have that to be able to do the playing until that playing makes you money. Yeah, so. So I feel like for me, I haven't necessarily reached that point where I'm where I want to be with that side of it, with having a foundation and then the right kind of mix. I've got it in my head in the sense that I'm clear what I want to be doing.

Yeah.

But I'm still taking steps to achieve what I want to achieve.

Yeah.

To feel a bit more secure in that, I think.

Yeah.

I think for people who are, this is certainly something I found with my clients. They have a burning desire. I work with novelists, first time novelists, they have a burning desire to get something finished. They've pretty much always, always wanted to do it, but perhaps didn't recognize that until later because they kept it to one side for too long. So they've suddenly decided that this is the thing. But obviously writing a book takes a long time. Even if you are a published author, it doesn't necessarily make you enough money to live off. As you say, that foundation is really important. But there's also, I think, an acceptance that it's okay to continue to have a balance of different things for different reasons. And that you have to, I think, accept that you might have to use your skills that are hard earned and your experience that you've spent a lot of time developing to make your money, in order to be able to then make money from the thing that you love. It's not black and white. It's definitely not jumping off a cliff. I never recommend anybody does that.

And I think that balance is different for everyone, isn't it? Some people are fortunate that they have a partner with a full time job. Some people have to be more careful because they're the person in their household who is being relied on to earn the money. And I think things change over time. I mean, I don't work full time these days because I work school hours, but all of my working Hours. I might be working on one thing, and then that's excluding the stuff that I do want to do. But then that balance always shifts. I think it's one of those things. If you've got creativity in your heart, if you want to do something creative for creative expression or because you've got particular skills that you love using around idea generation and making things happen, I think you'll always find a way back to it. And I think you will know that actually you don't really truly enjoy some of these other things, but you need to do them at certain points to make money. Or you need to think of, say, you're a freelancer, you need to choose the clients you work with. Maybe you think, actually if I work with some lovely clients on some less stressful things, that frees up my brain to do the stuff I want to do. So I'm happy. Yeah, it's always seeing it as a portfolio and ever changing. Because as, I mean, I think for me, as I guess I'm coming at it from a freelance perspective, that you can never predict when a client's suddenly going to say, actually, I haven't got any budget anymore, I'm sorry, that's it, the project's finished. It's a bit different if you're employed. That's a different thing, isn't it? But, yeah, but I see it as a portfolio in an ever changing balance.

Yeah. And sometimes if you live instinctively, the times and the reasons why you need to flip back more to one side than the other are because that's what you need sometimes. You know, I do, I really miss being in the workplace and if I have an opportunity to be out with people and for example, when I'm doing my speaking, I'm speaking to people who are still in the space I used to be in. It's a bit like commuting. I never had to commute by train because most of my clients were outside of London. I was driving to them or I was driving to work. But when I did go into London on the train, I loved it because it was the odd occasion. And so.

Likewise.

Yeah. And so other people would be sitting there thinking, oh, here we go again, the drudgy commute. And I'd be like, wow, this is really great fun. So I think it's to do with going after the thing you need at the time you need it. And as you say, that will completely ebb and flow. It's going to be different at different times and sometimes we need to do that more structured stuff, because then it gives us that sense of, oh, when I finish this, I can go off and do that. I think if you have a full day ahead of you with nothing in it, I think it's harder to create then. And you need some boundaries, don't you?

Definitely. And I think that, one of the things I do is I sometimes talk to people about how they plan their week. So like I say, the client who wanted to do the art, just setting out those bits of time that was going to be for art, you know, similarly for me, you're not likely to get me to do anything on a Friday morning because that's when I will go for a walk and I'll take some photos and I might then write and maybe a Friday afternoon I might do something, client work, have some calls. But Friday mornings, as far as possible are my time to do what I want do. And because I have that every week, it's just become a thing and it means that I can do all the other things the rest of the time knowing that I've got that time. Yeah, whatever happens.

Yeah. So important to be self aware. And I think sometimes if you are especially creative and your creative expression is everything to you, I think sometimes those people find it really hard to accept that there are other aspects of being creative. That, for example, if you have a creative skill, a talent and you want to make it work for you in terms of earning money.

Yeah.

You can't just be, you can't just follow the muse. You have to have a bit of a business head about you and say, well, yeah, I've got to do marketing, but I've also got to work out, well, who are my clients? Who's going to want to buy it? Where are they? Do I go to markets? Do I sell online? What's the best way of reaching people? You know, all those questions which I think can be a bit drudgery for people sometimes, but they're essential. You have to be very businesslike about it and go, okay, well, yeah, it's something I've got to do.

Well, that's it. And I guess that's where people who are like that want to have help from others who can either help them. I know someone, for example, who helps artists apply for funding. So if there is funding available to do specific projects, then there's that aspect. But then also getting business skills and getting training on things like that. If they've got training available as well.

Yeah. So I love your definition of creativity. And I think that's going to be really helpful for people because I think splitting it up into two different aspects of being creative, I think is really quite clever. But is there anything else that you have as a way of thinking or a mantra or something that you want people to take away from this conversation if it's the one thing that they remember? Is there something specifically that you would want to share?

I would just say that everyone's creative and actually that means different things to different people. And when you know what your way of being creative is, find ways to do it!

and to incorporate it into life. So.

And it's unique. It's completely unique to you because everyone's different. So, yes, everyone's creative. And there are always ways to incorporate some of that. Even if you can't incorporate it 100% of the time, there's always a way to a little bit of creativity.

Definitely. So what's next for you? So you're wanting to help as many people as possible, and hopefully some of the people who are listening to the podcast are starting to explore how they can use their creative expression and add more of it into their lives. What are you doing next? What are your plans in your business?

Probably by the time this airs, I will have done this thing, but I'm. I'm speaking at a local business event in the next few weeks where I'm going to be talking about how can you get more creativity in your business? So I'm going to be giving them a little bit of food for thought and then actually, I am hoping to do. I've got a few more untangling clients to work on at the moment. So I'm enjoying, just enjoying that and seeing where that takes me. And because one of the things for me is that I also like to evolve what I'm doing. And if something comes up that actually appeals and I think, oh, that's worth pursuing, worth exploring, then I'll just do. I'll do that within the boundaries of obviously making sure I'm still doing some things. So actually, if you asked me where I'm going to be this time next year, I have no idea, because I know that I want to still be doing untangling in some form, but it will be all sorts of other things could come into the mix by then.

Yeah. Okay. So it would have evolved because you're just enjoying doing what you're doing and letting it lead you where the most exciting and obvious places are, I guess. Just how you started, because you started with a. Oh, people seem to need this. And I think being open to what are people responding to and what do they appear to need? Because there's often a common thing that people are looking for and they can't see that. But with your brain and the way it works, you're spotting the patterns, aren't you? And going, hmm, okay, perhaps there's a gap over here I need to explore.

Yes. And different kinds of people as well, seeing who the people are that come to me for those things. And if I come across somebody and think, oh, actually, yes, that's an angle. I hadn't thought of that actually. That's a whole group of people I might be able to help. So it's just constantly, constantly exploring those things. Some of the things then become like a permanent fixture that I carry on doing and some of the things are things that maybe I bring back. If someone asked me to do a session at a retreat or a corporate lunch and learn or something, I quite happily do that again. But it's not something I'm focusing on. So that sort of thing might, those kind of things might come back. That's the beauty of being self employed. You can have a cool thing, experiment.

Yeah.

And bring things back. If you think, oh, actually I haven't done that for a while. I quite like that. I might do a few of those.

Yeah. And what about your own things, your photography and your writing? What are you doing with those? Where are they going to go?

I have been experimenting with substack actually. And I feel like that's a little bit more about my self expression and my creativity rather than me trying to promote what I do particularly. So yeah, so I'm going to be doing a bit more, more with substack and, and actually talking about the photography has made me think I'll have a day out with my proper camera and go and take some photos. So it's good to be reminded that that's a thing that I might talk about but I actually need to go and do as well.

Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Okay. So if people need to find you because they need untangling, where should they go? We'll put all the links in the show notes, but where should they go?

So my website's Nina Lenton.co.uk. You can find me on Instagram at Ninalentonbusiness and I spend quite a bit of time on LinkedIn as well. So those are probably the best places to find me.

Okay, fantastic. Thank you so much for your time. I'm sure people will have picked up lots of tips and thoughts about how they can be more creative and I look forward to carrying on learning about you because we've only just met and I think there's probably a lot we have in common. So I look forward to continuing that.

Absolutely, yes. Looking forward to more conversations. Thank you very much.

No worries. Take care.

Thank you. Bye.

Bye. That was great. I always learn so much chatting to my guests, Nina gave us An honest look at the reality of life when you lean into your creativity. I loved her take on the slow evolution of her creative practice and her pragmatic approach to juggling her freelance work, her coaching business and her own creative expression. My biggest takeaway? Her Friday mornings ring fenced for creative exploration. To follow her work or get in touch. The links are in the show notes.

Now it's creative adventures time and I promised to share some advice from award winning TV chef Theo Michaels and best selling rom com author Pernille Hughes on ways to achieve creative balance. Are you looking ahead as 2026 stretches out in front of us, full of ideas for creative projects and wondering how to fit it all in? Me too. For the last few years I've taken January to plan out my time. I don't put too much energy into doing anything in particular. Resisting the urge to make more stuff or launch anything new has helped me to take the pressure off myself. I find this slower start actually helps me to get more done in the end. If you're in the northern hemisphere, there is an energy to this time of year which society would have you ignore, in the interest of productivity. Instead, a slower pace, a kind of hibernation when it's cold and dark and wintry, helps us stay in balance with the rhythm of the season. Perfect for quiet reflection. So you might think several years into this practice I would have my creative goal setting process sorted. Nope. Reviewing last year's projects, I realised I had entirely underestimated how long things would take and overestimated what I could achieve. It's a common phenomenon known as the planning fallacy. So what did I do? before I share Theo and Pernille's advice and how it has helped me.

Just a quick reminder, if a podcast is a creative adventure you'd like to begin, check out the links for Allitu, my podcast recording and editing software, and captivate my podcast hosting software. I really couldn't do it without these great, easy to use tools.

Back to issues of balance in my conversation with Theo in the very first episode of the podcast he said turning a creative passion into a full time job requires a different mindset and realistic expectations and about the balance of creative work and non creative work. This pragmatism seems obvious, but when you're in the middle of projects it's not always easy to remember, especially if extra paid work crops up. So this time round I've built in buffers to allow for new opportunities or challenges with less risk of my plans being derailed by them. I'm also looking at new ways to Generate recurring income using all of my previous experience and skills in a creative way. So by trying not to over commit, this inevitably means I need to find a way to prioritise these projects and build a realistic and balanced plan. As Pernille says, you should choose to do what makes you happy. With this in mind, I've bought myself a new planner and a separate journal. I love stationery for setting goals, tracking my progress and keeping notes. I've worked out that a combination of analog and digital systems works best for me and to maintain that balance between work and creative adventures, I am choosing one main work project and one soul enriching project per quarter. I'll let you know how I get on. Have you found yourself setting unrealistic creative goals and then being disappointed that work has got in the way? Or maybe you found yourself resenting the need to keep your current career going whilst you build up your creative work? Maybe you found a way to get the balance right. Why not get involved in the creative conversation by subscribing to The Bold types on Substack or say hello to me on Instagram. The links are in the show notes. I'd love to hear, as always, about your progress or otherwise with your creative adventures. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Creative Switch. If you enjoyed it, please leave a review over on podchaser.com and if you've got any questions, please let me know on Instagram @nikki_Vallance. Tune in next time where I'll be tackling the age old issue of self doubt and discussing this and much more with actor turned artist Rebecca Lacey. Until then, keep creating and remember why survive when you can thrive.