Hello, ladies, welcome to
this week's episode of the
hourly to exit podcast.
I recently had the pleasure
of being interviewed
by Scott Ritzheimer.
He's the host of the secrets
of the high demand coach
podcast, and it was such.
A fun, fast paced interview.
It was almost like
whiplash, but so much
good stuff in there.
As soon as we finished
recording, I immediately told
Stacey, I want to release this
as an episode of the hourly,
the exit podcast as well.
So enjoy.
Thanks.
Scott Ritzheimer: Hello.
Hello and welcome.
Welcome once again to
the secrets of the high
demand coach podcast.
And I'm here with high
demand coach, which she's
actually an attorney and
a strategic consultant.
This is the one and
the only Erin Austin.
She's a graduate of Harvard
law school, and she uses her
25 plus years of practicing
law to help female founders
of expertise based firms to
build and protect saleable.
Assets so that the business
is ready to sell when the
founder is ready to exit.
And Aaron's experience as a
lawyer and as an executive
at the intersection of
business and law informs the
elevated legal and strategic
business advice that she
provides to her clients.
Her expertise includes roles
as COO and general counsel
for, MGM Teaching Strategies
and M3 USA Corporation.
Well, Aaron.
this feels like it's been
forever and coming, but I'm
so excited that you're here
with us now on the show.
before we get into how
you're helping particularly
female entrepreneurs,
I'd love to just hear a
little bit of your story.
What were you doing
before helping, founders
build saleable and
scalable businesses?
And why did you
ultimately make the leap?
Erin Austin: Yeah,
well, I thank you
for having me, Scott.
So I've spent a career
helping big businesses
get bigger, frankly.
And, that's probably way
a lot of lawyers start.
We come out, we go to
big firms, we end up in
house at big companies.
And, obviously, you it's.
It's a great way to make a
living, of course, but there
came a time when one, as
my career matured and I was
looking for something just
a that was more, a little
bit more aligned with my
personal goals, as I have a
son who's getting older, I'm
about to be an empty nester.
and have a little
more time on my hand.
And I'm like, well, what can
I do that has more impact?
I think all of us kind of get
there eventually about how
we can, use our expertise to
have greater impact and trying
to figure out like how to.
Translate my big company
experience into working
with a different population.
And it took me a bit to
figure it out, frankly.
And then I realized, you
know, a lot of my big clients,
they are in the IP space
and I work on, protecting
their intellectual property.
And a lot of it
is with services.
And so I'm like,
well, wait, there's.
Other populations who
have service based
businesses that they have
intellectual property
that they need to protect
and that I can translate.
It's not, the same scale,
but also use my IP based
experience working with
service based businesses
to help them protect their
IP and in particular,
with respect to women.
I mean, it's no secret.
I don't think that wealth,
Has a voice in this country
and in order to kind of,
spread some of the wealth,
spread some of the influence
that comes with it, to more
people to work with, women
in particular, I believe
that wealth in the hands of
women can change the world.
And so helping them turn
their businesses, not just
into income, providers,
but also wealth builders.
So that's how I got
Scott Ritzheimer: here.
I love that.
And, I was telling you
before we hit record here
that I have no idea how to
get all the questions that
I have for you down into
about a 20 minute block.
So we're going to try and
do this as best we can.
but, I just want to
start off and say.
Head over to Aaron's site.
We'll put the link in the
show notes, and we'll talk a
little bit about it at the end
here, but there's so much good
stuff on there, so go check
that out, you're not going to
regret it, but I'd love for
you to just unpack a couple
things for me, you make some
pretty profound statements
on your site, I'm going to
read them back to you, and
then I want to hear your
thoughts on them, so One of
them is owning and controlling
intellectual property is the
prerequisite to scaling your
B2B expertise based business.
There's not a lot of people
saying that right now.
So tell us what
you mean by that.
Erin Austin: Yeah,
that makes me insane.
That a lot of the day, if
we want to stop selling
our time, as an expert,
so to speak, and, instead
sell our expertise, then
we have to have an asset
there, either we're selling
our time or we're selling.
An asset.
And so if we want to build
assets, when we're experts,
it's not something that's
patentable, like a, you know,
a car or pharmaceutical, it's
not something that's like a
trade secret, like Coca Cola.
Our expertise is saleable
in the form of copyrightable
intellectual property.
And so if it's a book or a
course or the, workshops that
you provide, the trainings
you provide your clients.
All those things are
copyrightable assets and we
can't copyright something
if we don't own it.
And so I keep kind of
like, people like, well,
I get lots of questions
about, registering stuff,
like, well, do you own it?
just because you worked
on something doesn't mean
you own it just because
you created something
doesn't mean you own it.
so we have to be aware
of the whole life cycle
of, from creation.
Ownership, utilization,
registration of our IP assets.
And so you don't want to
create, a course using, stuff
that you got off the internet
or materials that you got
from a certification program
or something that you took
from your corporate job.
you can't create
courses out of that.
So you need to make sure
you own your own assets
in order to do that.
Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah.
Oh, that's so good.
you made another
statement here.
It's a little bit
longer, but again, I
want to read it because
I think it's fascinating.
And that is that the biggest
threat to your expertise
based business isn't AI.
AI might be able to
write a cookbook, but
it can never be a chef.
The bigger threat, is failing
to build a business that can
run without you failing to
build your business so that
your income is decoupled
from your time and failing
to adapt to the changing
market forces, such as low
cost competitors or micro
learning, learning on demand.
In other words, you
need to build a business
with multiple revenue
streams that can scale.
so, some people, especially
with how trendy AI is
know, that's probably
pretty drawing for them.
So.
Again, what do you
kind of mean by that?
And what can we
actually do about it?
Erin Austin: Yeah.
I mean, obviously AI is at
the top of everyone's, mind
and I do get a fair amount of
inquiries about it, but the
end of the day, AI is just
another way of accumulating.
Already known information
and so, it's just a better
version of Google, frankly,
if you have your intellectual
property, your expertise,
your, publishing it.
you should be publishing it.
So you're developing
your thought leadership.
Every single human with
an Internet has access,
whether they use chat, GBT
or whatever other AI, they
have access to it right now.
They can go on Google and get
it right now and copy it right
now and steal it right now.
Right.
So that's not going to change.
and someone can, you know,
does it make it easier for
them to take your materials
and stick it in the AI
and change it enough.
But at the end of the day, you
can't stop copycats because
we can't protect ideas.
So the way we protect our
position in the marketplace
is through our expertise by
providing the Michelin, level
service to your clients,
becoming the go to person
in your space, becoming the
leader, the thought leader.
And so.
That's how you combat,
whether it's Google or
AI or other bad actors.
It's not, by somehow keeping
everything secret because
it's not going to help you.
You can't keep it.
If you keep your stuff secret,
you're going to stay secret.
Right.
but if you want to scale,
on the other hand, if all
you're doing is kind of,
selling your time, doing
custom work that you don't
own, you're not developing
processes, you're not
developing your own solutions.
You're not, Creating assets
that you can use to put
leverage into your business.
you will obviously top out.
That's why you're here.
You that's going to be the
end of, you know, that's it.
That's all you want then.
But if you want to grow your
business, then you have to
be creating assets and you
can't be obsessing about AI.
That
Scott Ritzheimer: some of
the advice that I'll give,
especially to those in
the coaching profession.
and so I want to
have a fun little
conversation around this.
I think that, for a lot of
coaches, maybe not as much
writing a book, but creating
courses or other kind of
lower market engagements is
oftentimes a distraction.
here's, why I think one of the
things that happens if we're
not careful, we do it for
the value of leverage, right?
Because it doesn't take
my time, but it takes
a long time to do it.
And we do it so clumsily
that it actually takes
more time for the value
that we get back out of it.
Right.
And so for me, I've always
encouraged folks to go after
the thing that provides
the highest value for time.
Don't sell your time,
agree with you there,
but provide the highest
value for your time.
And so how do you
help folks navigate?
are you creating courses
just because someone told
you to create courses or
are they really a strategic
step in the right direction?
Erin Austin: Yeah, I'm using
courses as a kind of just a
cheap example, it also apply
to productized services.
even if it's not packaged as a
productized service, if you've
systematized your services,
so you created, so you can
expand, as an agency, you need
to have processes in place.
It just can't be your genius
sitting down every day,
genius saying, and order to
improve your business, there
has to be processes in place.
So you can either,
delegate those.
Less expensive pieces so
that you can just operate
at the genius level.
And then you have less
expensive resources doing
some of the groundwork.
So can be either things that
you sell literally or assets
that use within the business
to make your business more
efficient and profitable.
Yeah.
Scott Ritzheimer: And that
I could not agree more with.
One of the biggest things that
I've found in, in doing this
podcast and in an interviewing
near about a thousand coaches
now is the number one thing
that what I would call like
a high demand coach from
kind of your average coach
that neither of them is
a bad person, but some of
them have figured it out.
They've unlocked something
and some haven't yet.
the thing to unlock that
something is what I call
a structured offering.
And I think this is where
you and I are on exactly
the same page that if
you're just making it up as
you go, I would go so far
as to say, it's not just
that you haven't built a
scalable saleable business.
I would actually say you're,
doing a disservice to
your clients, Because it's
completely dependent on
how you show up that day.
Yes.
And you're going
to have good days.
You're going to have
bad days, right?
And so what I did love about
the way that you laid this
out and the idea of creating
these processes one, so
people can help, but I think
a bigger part of it and
what's really helpful for
a lot of coaches, because.
They want to know that
what they do matters and is
helpful is the biggest thing
that I've seen to generate
higher ROI for your clients
is to actually do what
you're talking about here.
The really cool thing that
you bring to the table
is that it's not just for
the ROI for your clients,
but that it actually can
end up being an asset
for you for the long run.
Erin Austin: Absolutely.
And what you mentioned, it
reminds me, frankly, of the
legal industry, where we
typically build by the hour.
And so we are disincentivized
from finding really efficient
ways to deliver services.
But as a consequence,
a lot of times we are
kind of just starting
from the beginning with.
Each engagement, every time I
pick up a services agreement
to review it, I, have, and
I will confess, just kind of
read through it by my lines.
I do have to read
the whole thing.
I can't skip through it,
but I have put in place,
checklists and sample
language and things like that.
So that every time I go
through it, another, a hundred
page services agreement that
I don't miss anything because
these things can happen.
And so you take some
of the risk out for you
and your client when you
Scott Ritzheimer:
have these things.
And I think there's
something again, this
really cool that happens.
And, amazing thing about
doing this, really approaching
it this way is one.
If you just want to do your
own thing and you just want
to increase the, what you
can build per hour, right?
By increasing your value
and, optimizing your time,
this is the best thing to do.
the biggest thing that
I've seen accomplish is the
amount of time you spend
between sessions, right?
So for coaches, you don't
typically build by the
hour you build by the
session and where a lot of
coaches get really stuck.
And a lot of service
providers, just in general,
I just happen to work with
a lot of coaches, but, is.
They're not billing
for the two thirds of
their time that's not
in the session room.
And you can dramatically
reduce that with, things
like checklists and processes
and following the same
thing the whole way through.
The other really, really cool
thing about it is that it's
a very incremental step to
moving towards certification.
and allowing other
people to step into that.
So tell us a little bit
about, how does this idea
of certification plan one?
What are the IP considerations
just quickly that we
might want to consider?
And then two, how does that
play into this idea of, moving
from your hourly to exit?
Erin Austin: Yeah, so just
quickly on the IP side,
it goes back to owning the
elements that you're using.
when we are providing one
on one services to our
clients, we may have 3rd
party materials that we're
using there and it's fine.
We have right to use it.
Say we got it from a.
Another certification
program or continuing
education or something.
We can use it with our
one on one clients.
Well, we can't license
that on to a 3rd party
certification is a license.
So that would be
a sub license.
So we had to make sure that
anything that we're proposing
to certify, we own it 100%.
and then it helps us move to
the exit because it helps us.
We take our expertise instead
of, you know, you can grow
either internally by What
Adding experts internally,
or you can grow externally
by licensing other experts
to use your expertise.
And so that's what
certification would be.
without kind of the
certification part, it could
just be a license, but the
certification part usually
comes with some kind of
training element and some
kind of proof of competency.
So depending on the nature
of what your expertise
is, you may want to go
the certification route.
But that also helps kind
of extend your own, brand
because people like, Hey,
I was trained by, Scott and
that's why I do what I do.
So yeah.
Scott Ritzheimer:
That's awesome.
I had a guest on a few
episodes back, his name
was Mitch Russo, and he
talked about this idea
of certification as well.
But I would imagine when
you're working with, it
probably blows them away what
they're sitting on and they
don't even know they have it.
Would you agree with that?
let me say this way, would
you say that most, especially
female entrepreneurs are
sitting on more value than
they even know they have?
Yeah.
Erin Austin: I mean,
what is it that your
clients come to you for?
you're doing something
that's providing
value to your clients.
They're choosing you instead
of choosing somebody else.
And so if they're willing to
pay you for that, outcome,
then, there's only so many
people that you can service
that there are other clients
that you couldn't service
that could have benefit from.
Whatever the transformation is
that you provide and you can,
extend that reach either, you
know, through other experts
or through some, products.
and so there's more than one
way to get, to leverage your
Scott Ritzheimer: expertise.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so good.
so good.
So, there's a question I
like to ask all my guests.
It's this, what is the
biggest secret that you just
wish wasn't a secret at all?
What's that one thing you're
sitting there and you just
wish everyone listening,
you're watching today, new
Erin Austin: Yeah, well,
it's going to be about IP.
So I like to say
IP is everywhere.
It's literally all day, every
day when every time we sit
down as experts sit down at
our desks, we're creating
intellectual property.
We're using our intellect.
We're creating
intellectual property.
We're talking here.
We're posting on LinkedIn.
We're, creating deliverables
for our clients.
We're training people online.
All that that's intellectual
property, people think
IP is just software and
books, you know, external
things, but it's all the
things that we create that
are the way we express our
intellectual property, way
we use our expertise, all
that stuff is intellectual
property and issue isn't.
Do you have any.
The issue is, are you
owning and controlling it.
Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah.
Wow.
Well, yeah, that's
a great point.
So, another question here.
we've talked a lot about, you
know, kind of how you help
your clients, but want to
turn things around a little
bit, take off your kind of
attorney consultant hat for
a moment, put on your, CEO
hat, kind of jumped down into
the ring with the rest of us.
What's the next stage of
growth look like for you
and your business and what
challenge will you have
to overcome to get there?
Oh, boy, well,
Erin Austin: this has been
a tough one for me, because
as a lawyer, I do have like
confidentiality issues.
So group programs are tough.
And, if I do products,
well, can I disclaim,
liability for our products?
but nonetheless, I am
working on some group
programs regarding
copyright registration,
because people have a lot
of questions about it.
And so to be able to do that
in a group context, not just
templates, but, developing
some negotiation guides,
it's one thing if you're,
an online business, so to
speak, but when you have
corporate clients, templates
don't really help you because
your corporate clients
send you their agreements.
And so you need to know
what to do when your clients
send you their agreements.
So that's what I'm
going to help people do.
So, well,
Scott Ritzheimer: Wow.
Fantastic.
again, love, love, love the
way that you approach this.
and it's very rare
for those listening.
It's very rare to
have an attorney who's
able to enter into the
business world like this.
It's one of the things that's
so profound about you, Aaron.
And so.
For folks who need that
legal advice, who, maybe
sitting there thinking,
Hey, I probably have
more IP than I thought.
and they want to know
what the next steps are.
They want to know
how you can help.
can they find more
out about what you do
and connect with you?
Erin Austin: Yeah.
Well, you can find me at
my website, thinkbeyondip.
com.
And there I do have
a free assessment.
That's.
Called is your expertise,
copyrightable, and you can
take that and it can give you
an initial analysis of, kind
of what requirements are to
have copyrightable, material.
And from there, look at
the other ways that you
can work with me online and
then you can always find
me at LinkedIn as well.
I've been on there.
Forever.
So I am the only Aaron, well,
the original Aaron Austin.
I imagine there are others
that came after me, but,
just my name, Aaron Austin.
Scott Ritzheimer:
The OG Aaron Austin.
That's right.
Oh, that's so good.
So again, Aaron's,
, website is fantastic.
Think beyond ip.
com.
It's in the notes.
We'll put her LinkedIn
profile there as well.
So you can click right to
it and Aaron, thank you
so much for being here.
and it was just an
honor having you.
And for those who are watching
or listening today, you know,
your time and attention.
I hope you got as much out
of this conversation as I
know I did, and I cannot
wait to see you next time.
Take care.
Thank you.