Lisa Marie Rankin [00:00:00]:

Hello beautiful listeners. In this episode, I speak with Ren Maro, an outdoor boudoir and erotic adventure photographer based in the Pacific Northwest. She's known for her moody edits, whimsical flair, and unflinching authenticity. Her work lives at the crossroads of fine art and fairy tale. In this episode, we talk about moving from purity culture to embodied sovereignty, reclaiming your beauty in a culture obsessed with youth and the ritual experience of being photographed. And we talk about so much more and stay until the end because we drop and then we come back on for a candid conversation on the importance of beauty, self indulgence and play. I know you're going to love this conversation as much as I did. And if you are interested, we really talk about the importance of boudoir photography as this ritual experience to reclaim your beauty.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:00:54]:

I am going to be offering in 2026 my first live retreat where boudoir photography will be a part of it. So if you are interested, you can get on the wait list. The link is in the show notes. Let's dive in. Hello beautiful listeners and welcome back to the Goddess School podcast. So today I'm very excited to introduce you to Ren Morrow. She is an outdoor boudoir and erotic adventure photographer and I'm really excited to get her perspective. We're going to talk about a few things.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:01:30]:

Purity, culture, reclaiming your own beauty, and the importance of getting in nature. And I'm sure we'll probably talk about a lot more as well too once we, once we get into it. So welcome.

Wren Morrow [00:01:41]:

Rin.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:01:41]:

Thank you. Thank you for being a guest here.

Wren Morrow [00:01:43]:

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, Lisa Marie. I'm excited to be here and see where the conversation goes.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:01:50]:

Fantastic. Now before we, there's so many questions that I want to ask you and I just, I think that this conversation is just so relevant. Like one, and this is like the synchronistic events is I've been thinking, I just turned 50 this summer and I'm like, I really want to do a boudoir photo shoot. You know, it's like I feel like, you know, that would be something that I would love to do, you know, just for my 50th year. And it seems a little self indulgent but I'm like, no, I'm gonna do it. And I'm also planning my first in person retreat. I want to do that for women too and have that as an option of something that they can do. So, so excited to talk to you about this.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:02:28]:

And it also seems like very much like a Spiritual experience, a spiritual practice. But before we would dive in, I would, I would love to hear just a little bit about your story so that I know you were from Tennessee and you call it the Bible Belt and you talk about kind of overcoming purity culture. Can you tell us what you mean by purity culture and maybe just a little bit of the transformation that you have gone through?

Wren Morrow [00:02:54]:

Hmm, yeah. Purity culture is, if I were to put it in, in one sentence, it's that the highest good that a woman can have is her virginity and her purity and being a untouched, untarnished, pure woman who saved herself for her husband. And it bleeds into lots of other aspects of just like being a good woman in general, not like having your own opinions or like talking back or being difficult in any way, shape or form. So with purity culture and the way that I was raised, it was just trying to keep me safe and protected from the evils of the world. I was homeschooled because of it, so that I wasn't exposed to kids in school so my parents could make sure that I had a really strong Christian understanding of the world. I wasn't allowed to date at all. My parents got me this book called I Kiss Dating Goodbye, which famously the author has come back and been like, I'm so sorry I ever wrote that. That was so out of pocket and out of touch.

Wren Morrow [00:04:04]:

And I actually met the author at a conference one time. It was really random to just like see one of these like crazy influential aspects of, of my adolescence. And then both of us have been like, wow, that was really off base. So yeah, I wasn't supposed to date. I was only going to be courting, just needed to wear incredibly modest clothes. It was back, you know, I'm a kid in the, in the low rise jean era and my, I wasn't allowed to have jeans where you could see my belly button at all. And like the horror of like being in the Britney Spears era and having to wear jeans up semi bra line practically. So.

Wren Morrow [00:04:48]:

So yeah, that is a little peep of just like trying to keep me pure. It would be the best way of describing it.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:04:55]:

And so now that you're in the Pacific North Northwest, like what called you there and how is that part of the story as well as far as overcoming this purity culture?

Wren Morrow [00:05:06]:

Yeah, I mean it was a slow unraveling. It wasn't just like one day that everything came crashing down. It was a long buildup of disappointments that I had with God that I was like, at this point, I, I mean I, I was an adult. I was 24. I was a youth pastor. I was married to the worship pastor. Like, I was doing all the things right. I was seeking God's plan for my life at all times.

Wren Morrow [00:05:30]:

And then suddenly it felt like I. I didn't understand or I was being misled. And I got to the point where I was like, God, I'm. I am mad at you. I know you're real, but we're not talking right now, so I need to tune out. And then during that time, I get. Course I moved to Italy. I come back to Tennessee right as Trump gets elected.

Wren Morrow [00:05:48]:

I'm like, I gotta go. I had visited Seattle in college and just had this inclination to go out to the west coast, but I had never. I. I didn't know anyone in Seattle. I thought that that'd be a really big jump to go from a small town to a metropolitan area of any kind. And so I realized I knew a few people on the Olympic Peninsula and moved there first as, like, a kind of segue. And it was during all of this time that I'm just realizing the more responsiveness of the universe rather than this, like, I wasn't looking for Daddy God to, like, come down and tell me exactly what I needed to do with my life and. And follow a strict set of rules, which is the way that the church has twisted the role of God in our lives and so that it can become a tool of control.

Wren Morrow [00:06:40]:

And. And instead I was interacting with this very responsive universe that I had an idea for what I wanted and what it might be, and I kind of threw it out, and I would wait and something would come back, and it started to feel like this, like, interactive dance, rather than sitting on the sidelines desperately waiting for God to show up, and realizing that at this point, I'm comfortable with the word God, but if it's love or truth or the oneness or the universe, whatever word works for you, realizing that force wants our participation and wants us to, like, play with it and have a little push and see what softens, see what hardens, see what doors open, what doors close, and use all of that as data to, like, inform this grand dance of your life rather than needing the rule book. So I think that the first reframing was just, like, my interaction with the universe. And then the next reframing was just as I came out here, started dating someone, we started living in a van together and spent a lot of time in wild places. And we would just try to find the quietest places and get entirely naked and spend all Day he played guitar and I make food and it would just like this really like soft existing in these imperfect places that made my body feel like it belonged and like it was exactly right and just feel, felt so correct to be in those places. It wasn't like one day I suddenly didn't have any body shame anymore. I, I still wrestle with it, but spending all of these times where I wasn't inundated with so much messaging trying to make me feel like shit about myself so that I was a better consumer. I was spending time in places where they asked of nothing of me and offered me their sunlight, their shade, their warmth, the breeze, like the cool waters.

Wren Morrow [00:08:40]:

And it was all just a free gift. And, and then I just got to be with it. And that was enough that the rewiring of what it meant to be inside of my body really started to take place.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:08:53]:

Oh, that's so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing, sharing your story. And I love a few things that you said. One is just when you started to notice God, the divine goddess, however people want to think of it, like, wants our participation, right. And like they're synchronistic events and I think that's really beautiful. And it is, it's like, yeah, I believe the divine wants, God wants our participation as well too. And I also love how you talked about rewiring because I think that's one of the most challenging things for women today who we spend so much time and hopefully not that much time. I'm always encouraging the women in my community to get off social media.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:09:31]:

You know, we look at these filtered and curated photos and feel that we're in this youth obsessed culture and we have to adhere to some like, societal standard of beauty. And I think, you know, one of the things we are being called to do is to detach from that narrative and rewire our system and reclaim our, our beauty. So can you tell me a little bit more about how, how you began to rewire? And I know you said like being out in nature and having, you know, just the sun who is not judging you and the trees and I love that.

Wren Morrow [00:10:05]:

I mean it's like it's really not the more complicated than that. Like it, it really one thing that's important about it is that you can't just like let go of something necessarily. It often needs something else to grab onto. These things become a part of our support of our being. They are, they become structural whether we want them to be or not. These ideas of like, I'm ugly, I'm fat, I'M bumpy, I'm wrinkly. I'm not as youthful as I once was. I'm always looking in the past, like, look how beautiful I once was.

Wren Morrow [00:10:41]:

Or maybe you never thought you were beautiful or like, whatever. And this constant judgment and criticism of yourself is structural. It is a part of what is keeping you upright. And so to just be like, oh, I'm not gonna think that anymore. It's like kicking a. A. A leg out from under a chair. It's like it.

Wren Morrow [00:11:03]:

It needs something else there. And so I think that it wasn't. It wasn't active, like, trying to release that and, and seeing my body in a different way and. And honestly, having a lover that really thought I was beautiful. And like, we're in these spaces and he's saying it, you know, and I'm seeing it and. And we're doing photo, you know, like, it just all, like, fed each other and was like a perfect storm for healing. But I think that it's important to recognize that you can't just remove the thing. You need to see what you're putting in its place.

Wren Morrow [00:11:37]:

And I think that that is, like, what nature was for me. It was a, Like a conscious releasing of my shame and realizing how good it is to feel myself inside of a body and that that's all I need to have to be worthy of pleasure and. And fun and play and adventure. This. This meat suit, it gives me access to that. And that's the actual thing, not how it looks. And I think the other thing is that we're spending so much time not using our bodies to go and have fun, to have play, to have adventure, to laugh with your friends, to be fucked beautifully and tenderly. Like, when you're not using your body for what it's designed to encounter and enjoy, then it's like kind of this cage of your consciousness.

Wren Morrow [00:12:33]:

And, like, at least I'll pick a the part.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:12:36]:

I hate it in here, and I.

Wren Morrow [00:12:37]:

Hate how it looks and everything about it's shitty. And it's like, okay, well, I don't know. I think using your body in ways that feel more aligned with how it was intended to be used automatically, like, do that rewiring. Because it's like, oh, here I am. This is what I was made for.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:12:55]:

Oh, that's amazing. And I. I couldn't agree more. And I think, you know, it's like, yeah, like, experience pleasure, have fun. Travel, hike, Work up a sweat. Like, yes. Like, be in your body. Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:13:07]:

And use it.

Wren Morrow [00:13:08]:

That's.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:13:09]:

Yeah, that's fantastic. So how did you come to being a boudoir outdoor erotic photographer?

Wren Morrow [00:13:19]:

How does anyone become something like that? Like, that was certainly not one of the options where it was like nurse, doctor, psychiatrist, photographer, an adventurer. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think it was just like an overflow of my lifestyle would be the best way of saying it. Like, I'm out there, I'm playing naked in the woods. I'm having a great time. Why are the girls not here? Hello. I found the place. This is where we should be.

Wren Morrow [00:13:49]:

Let's get our frolic on. And at the same time I, that I'm doing all of that, I'm also becoming a photographer. I. This same lover had bought me my first camera and I started with taking photos of cocktails and food and beverage things because I had been waiting tables for 10 years before I did this. And so I just started, you know, wondering what, what I might also like to shoot if I wasn't like shooting a cocktail. And I really, I can't even remember like how the first one happened, but once it happened, then it was, the cat was out of the bag, you know, then people could see it. Photography is a really beautiful business because you really, the work does speak for its. So.

Wren Morrow [00:14:36]:

Yeah. Then people are like, well that looks really fun. Wait, can I do that? And it just like snowballed from there. Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:14:42]:

Have you noticed like with the woman that you have photographed, like any shifts, like as far as like maybe like when they start or what they're thinking about to like how they feel after.

Wren Morrow [00:14:54]:

Like, oh my goodness, 1 million percent. That's what we're there for. That's what we're on the mission for. I think that maybe a handful have shown up with the energy, ready to rock and roll, but even them, I mean, I am really attentive to the energy that I would relate to like a flower blooming. What is fluorescence? I'm paying attention to like what, what gets a little curiosity? What gets a little, little hermit crab out of its shell? And that's how they seem is like they start as a hermit crab in the shell and they're willing to be there and they got a little one leg out, you know. But I'm, I'm showing the images as we're getting them as, as I start to, you know, I gotta get my light dialed and figure out the composition and things. Like we're, we're working. I say me and mother Nature are working together to do this shoot.

Wren Morrow [00:15:48]:

And I'm having her help hold the space and bring the good Light and all the things and. And so, yeah, just from the beginning to the end of the shoot. I mean, it really is just a full blossom moment, and it is so potent and so powerful. And that's like, what I live for is the, like, watching them come alive like that.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:16:10]:

Oh, yeah, I can imagine. That must just everything amazing.

Wren Morrow [00:16:14]:

Yes. Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:16:16]:

There was something that I saw too. I think in just some of your copy, you say it's the crossroads of fine art and fairy tales. And in my community, we do a lot of work with fairy tales too. So I actually, like, really, like, loved that because one of the things that I've been encouraging a lot of people with lately is like, okay, we have to kind of move on from kind of a hamster wheel of healing and self help. And I'm fixing to, like, having fun, using our imagination, being creative. Like, let's get dressed up when we go food shopping. Let's do something different. And can you talk a little bit about, like.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:16:50]:

Like, what did you mean by fairy tale and.

Wren Morrow [00:16:52]:

And fine art?

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:16:53]:

Like, what does that mean to you?

Wren Morrow [00:16:57]:

Oh, man. I think I said fine art and fantasy, but I am so fairy tale adjacent. And I live in a fairy tale. I grew up on fairy tales. I love a fairy tale. For me, I. I try for my work to feel like we've got one foot in reality and one foot somewhere you can only visit through dreaming. And I think that this space can be so intentionally curated to kind of activate an energy within you, whether it's just your embodied, empowered self, which I think is, like, what most of them end up being.

Wren Morrow [00:17:36]:

But starting to feel more into these ideas of, like, I want to know, like, what elements speak to you. Like, if you were a goddess of the blank. You a goddess of the woods? Are you a goddess of the sea? Are you a goddess of the storm? Like, what. What energy do you relate to? Where do you feel powerful if you were a fairy tale creature? Like, what is left in your wake? What comes forth when you enter the room? What fears you and, like, must leave, you know, and. And really playing into that and, like, play with that. Okay. You want to be the goddess rising up out of the sea with this dark dress. It's like catching the foam and like, it's moody and stuff.

Wren Morrow [00:18:25]:

Like, yes, I want to do that. We want to be like, a little lost in the woods and, like, a little bit more, you know, like Red Riding Hood type thing. Like, okay, let's do that. So I think that when it comes to stories, especially from fairy tales, we're we're working with archetypal energy. That's something that you. That when you embody, we have the power to or the ability to embody these energies that are more than ourselves. That's why we used to worship all the different gods and so was just like trying to access the energy of these, these goddesses. Yeah, I think just like trying to play with that and you know, like, there's no rules out here, so.

Wren Morrow [00:19:10]:

Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:19:10]:

That sounds so amazing. That sounds so, like so much fun. I just like, I love that. I'm like, I have all these ideas in my mind.

Wren Morrow [00:19:18]:

Give me an idea.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:19:21]:

Well, I think, I feel like we've been doing a lot of work with like the Enchanted Forest. So, you know, like whether it's like a forest nymph or like, you know, like some sort of like priestess, like in the forest over a fight, you know, tending to a fire. But I also kind of love like, what about like what you said in the water? I'm seeing like the sand too, or on top of a mountain and. Yeah, just. Yes, a desert actually. Desert could be really nice as well too.

Wren Morrow [00:19:50]:

The desert is interesting. I've done a couple shoots in the desert and it's a very. It's such a different energy because in the Pacific Northwest, obviously everything's moving really slow. It's really soft. The ability to like sink in and like melt into moss and things. Like running around barefoot, no problem. I feel like the desert energy is like badass, you know, like you're wearing boots. Like you can't be barefoot out there.

Wren Morrow [00:20:18]:

Right. Like, it is like, it's a hard climate and it's not made to be hospitable to humans. So the energy that you embody is a bit more like this. Like, I got this. I will continue to get this. Like, I, you know, you can't tread on me. I don't know.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:20:37]:

Like, it's.

Wren Morrow [00:20:38]:

Yeah. There's so many ways to play. It's infinite. It's infinite. And I, I want my shoes to be a place where you don't come to me being like, what should I do? And it's more like, okay, I have this idea. What do you think? And we just snowball and like turn it into something that's so co created. I just. Yes.

Wren Morrow [00:20:58]:

Delicious. Yeah. Thank you.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:21:01]:

One of the things too, as I was thinking about this and you know, and it's like I've played around with like things like with AI, like make me look like a high lady in front of a romantic castle or make me look and it's kind of fun, but it seems like there is so much more about having somebody, like, witness you. Because it's like, yeah, we could put upload a photo and say, make me sexy in the desert wearing fries, boots or something, but it's not the same. There's not the transformation. Like, it could be fun to do, but what do you see as, like, the big difference of, like, why can't someone say, but I could make myself look perfect if I just used AI Or I wouldn't even have to travel. I could just upload a photo, but it doesn't seem like it would be quite right.

Wren Morrow [00:21:45]:

Man, I know that this is a direction that things will head. And because our culture has become hypnotized by ease. And so there is nothing easier than asking AI to do it. It's cheap, free, probably, and. And you can, and you can see it, and you can have it for sure. But I am a firm believer that photos are the keys that unlock the memory of the experience. If there's no experience behind that photo, there's nothing to. There's no access to the energy.

Wren Morrow [00:22:30]:

Like, the. The whole point of going and doing the shoot of dressing up like the high lady in front of the thing, or like, you know, finding the enchanted woods, dipping yourself into the waterfall, is to have an embodied experience in your body. Like, to feel the cold, the fear, the thrill, the shame, the bravery, the freedom, the release, the pleasure. Like it is to feel all of that. And then the photos just get to be your little, like, keepsake and your little, like, anytime you want to remember how that felt, then you can just take a glance, a glance at it and return to that place and to that energy. And so, yeah, I. I do not fear AI in any way for, like, coming for my job, because they can absolutely create better images than I can. And I've never claimed to be the best photographer.

Wren Morrow [00:23:29]:

I think I have infinite growth there. And I'm mostly happy with most of my photos most of the time. You know, I'm not claiming that, but what I am claiming, it is a ideal companion and guide and friend during a very intimate and intentional and scary and exhilarating experience. And that is what I can actually do and what I actually offer. And the photos are just. Yeah, the momentos. Yeah. Wow, that's.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:24:05]:

That's so inspiring.

Wren Morrow [00:24:06]:

That's wonderful.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:24:08]:

As I mentioned, many of the women in my community, probably 50 plus, many are a lot older. What would you say to a woman who's like, oh, that sounds interesting, but I'm Too old. You know, I don't want people to see, like, my belly or my thighs or things aren't really hanging the way that they used to.

Wren Morrow [00:24:25]:

Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to the same thing that I just talked about, is that it's not really about how you look. It's not really about the photos. It's really about the experience. And as far as I understand, your skin feels sunlight the same as mine. Your. Your body recognizes softness the same as mine. There seems to be an opportunity for a lot more freedom of movement for older women, a little bit more ease with, like, releasing the. You know, in your 20s and 30s, there's still a little bit of delusion that we might just stay young forever.

Wren Morrow [00:25:04]:

And then I feel like by the time you're 50 or more, it's like we're for sure getting older. It seems like. I know that I'm 34, and this is the first year that I've been like, oh, no, it's actually happening. It's actually, you know, I'm not just at the cusp of it, but it's like, it's no longer, like, you know, just a good night's rest will fix me. And so I feel like there's, like, a lot of opportunity to realize, what are we talking about here? Why am I on this infinite quest to remain looking like a teenager? Who is that for? Why have I ever bought into that? And good God, I've been trying for 30 years now to contort into somebody else's beauty expectation. Could I have peace for the last bit here? Could I, you know, is there peace for me and. And having a space where you can, like, claim that and say, you know, here's the end. Here's the end of thinking that I only deserve this if I looked a certain size or didn't, or my skin was different or.

Wren Morrow [00:26:14]:

Or whatever? Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:26:16]:

Yeah. It's an. I feel that women, we have, like, kind of this interesting paradox that I actually believe that many of us, we feel more confident and more comfortable in our own skin as we age, and yet our culture doesn't necessarily think so. And so in some ways, it's like, oh, I feel more me, more confident, more at ease with the way that I move through the world. And yet it also seems, I hear from many women, too, that they also feel like they're becoming more invisible. Like people aren't looking at them at the same way, or they're not getting the attention in line at the coffee shop that maybe that they used to. So it's a little bit of a paradox.

Wren Morrow [00:26:53]:

I mean, I think that like, when we boil down the biological necessity of attraction for procreation, it makes sense to me that like, as we get older, we would lose a lot of the like, biological draw to us because we can't procreate anymore. And so like, from like a, like a truly biological place. I have suspected, and I've never like, spoken about this, but I have suspected that, that like we talk about how men age better than women and I've often wondered, I'm like, what is it because of the fact that they're still biologically available, like for longer? I, I don't really know. I don't know how any of that works. But yeah, it's funny to, to realize like that switch of how, you know, the confidence comes as the biological obsession or coffee shop glances or whatever fades, you know. Yeah. And like, to realize like, how many of those looks like. I feel like I was getting the most looks and the most attention when I was like 13, 14.

Wren Morrow [00:27:58]:

I went from no titties to a C cup the summer I was 12. I did not know what to do with all of that. Everybody else had some thoughts, you know, and it's like, that's like so foul to me. Yeah. But like, you know, how could we expect a 13 year old to know what to do with that amount of attention?

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:28:20]:

Right.

Wren Morrow [00:28:21]:

And how twisted, you know, it just, it's a, it's a weird, twisty little psychological experiment that I maybe don't want to do right now. But yeah, I, I feel like, like you said, like, there's so much more confidence available and I hate that, that so many younger women don't get to access that. I feel I'm in a middle zone right now and I know I'm getting more confident as I age and also less like objectively hot. And realizing that confidence has nothing to do with attractiveness ever. It never has. And so with that in mind, like, you don't have to be any manner of attractive to own your energy and own the power that you walk through the world with. And that's what confidence is and what sexiness is to me. So.

Wren Morrow [00:29:10]:

Yeah, I agree.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:29:12]:

I think it's just being comfortable in your own skin that kind of exudes the sexiness and exudes the magnetism when you, you feel comfortable in your.

Wren Morrow [00:29:20]:

Totally, totally. People are like, I want, what's, what's up with that? I want, I don't want like one.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:29:28]:

Of the things that I really love about what you're doing. Your approach to kind of doing these erotic shoots in nature is that it almost seems like an opportunity or an initiation of reclaiming your own beauty and for yourself, as opposed to like what I'm supposed to look like on Instagram or whatever, you know, where it's an opportunity that we get to take it back and be comfortable in our own skin instead of this sense of comparison.

Wren Morrow [00:29:59]:

Yeah, it's super ritualistic. It's super, this opportunity. That's why I say it's like, it's very co creative. I really want to know where you feel strong, where you feel powerful, what elements, what, you know, textures, what clothes. It is always yours. You don't need a photo shoot to do it. But there is something about the wit, there's something about a witness, there's something about documentation. There's something about making a big to do about it that really like, kind of get your ass in gear to, you know, I need to spend.

Wren Morrow [00:30:36]:

I need to spend some time with myself. I need to spend some time. There was. I had a friend who for years told me she wanted to shoot with me. And she was like, but I'm just not ready. I'm just not ready. I'm not confident enough. Whatever.

Wren Morrow [00:30:48]:

And then, like, one day she texted me. She was like, today I woke up. And when I looked in my mirror, my very first thought was, wow, your eyelashes are so beautiful. She's like, I knew I was ready. And she did. She came and she sent it. And. And so there's also like, an opportunity to like, use it as like a.

Wren Morrow [00:31:11]:

I don't know, I'm imagining, like, like, if you do a marathon, you, like, are training, like, leading up to it, you know, And I do encourage people, like, leading up to this, like, spend a lot more time naked. Spend a lot more time, like, saying nice things to yourself in the mirror. Spend a lot more time moving your body and like, feeling. Because a lot of the, like, icky feelings of being what I. In my opinion, when I feel fat, quote, unquote, you know, when I have like, oh. What I actually feel is that I haven't moved very much recently. I feel kind of sluggish. I feel like I've been sitting too much.

Wren Morrow [00:31:51]:

And that makes me feel, you know, and. And it will come out as me being like, oh, you're looking fat. Oh, look at these pictures. These pictures look, I. My body looks exactly the same. But the day that I went to hot yoga, I feel like, dang, are you looking good? And then the day that I sat on the couch all day. So, like, so much of this stuff is really not even about what we're seeing in the mirror. We're projecting how we feel internally onto that image.

Wren Morrow [00:32:19]:

So there's like, so much opportunity leading into it. Of course, there's the moment itself, but there's also, like, knowing that it's coming up gives you something to, like, be working towards, I think. Yeah, yeah, I've.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:32:35]:

I'm very much the same experience too, where it's like, yeah, I haven't, like, exercise or maybe I ate something that just seemed really unhealthy. And I'd be like, oh, you know, this is. I look, I feel terrible. And then. But yeah, if you go to the gym and you go for a long walk and you're eating healthy, it's like, oh, I look amazing. And it is. It's kind of just like we do project on the image.

Wren Morrow [00:32:57]:

Like, the body doesn't even have to change that much. It really doesn't. It will end up changing if you do too many of either of those activities. But like, I'm not really, like a big gym person. I don't do like, a ton of, like, working out and stuff like that, but just like, just any amount of movement. Any. Just one little walk, one little. Did you touch some grass? Like, these things have such an impact on how we think our body looks.

Wren Morrow [00:33:22]:

Has nothing to do with how the body looks as everything to do with, like, how it feels.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:33:26]:

One thing is, you were talking about, like, the. The ritual aspect and even like, yeah, it can feel uncomfortable. It's like, oh, people are going to be looking at my body. Or like, maybe it's just even cold out or. Or something. So there. There could be a sense of discomfort or like, oh, this is awkward. I've never done this before, but it's interesting because I've been thinking about.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:33:46]:

You know, we all say we want these threshold moments, like where we become the. Become the queen or, you know, let go of the mother and crone, but yet we never want the discomfort that goes with it. And yet the discomfort is part of these rites of passage. So it's like that's where the growth and that's where the actual change happens. Because we actually realize that, oh, but I can do it. And I'm still here. Not saying that the whole experience would be uncomfortable, but it's different. Like you said before, it's not just the image, it's the experience that you go through.

Wren Morrow [00:34:18]:

Really? Yeah, that. That discomfort is like an opportunity for you to meet with yourself. We have these like, identities and these, like, little shielded aspects that are like, we're locked in. I'm locked in as. As the person who feels this way about myself, and it's guarded. And then as you want to make a move towards a different way of being or a different way of feeling, the shield comes up for half a second, you know, and then that plays. That part of you feels really vulnerable, and that's what the discomfort actually is. It's like, I'm somewhere new.

Wren Morrow [00:34:49]:

I don't know. What if I'm okay? And it's in that moment that you can intentionally meet with that aspect of yourself that's been too shielded for you to even have a real conversation with and God knows how long and, like, meet with them and be like, hey, I know. I know. We never do this. We never thought we'd be letting somebody see us like this. I'm like, it's scary, but you're worth it. Yeah. You're beautiful.

Wren Morrow [00:35:18]:

And I see you, and I'm so proud of you. And look how brave you are for doing something like this. Look how audacious. Look how playful and fun and wild and free you are. Look how you won't be told what you're allowed to be or how you're. How you're allowed to show up in the world anymore. Look at you doing something just for you. And.

Wren Morrow [00:35:41]:

And nobody gets to say anything about it but you on this. And, like, you gotta do that. Yeah. And then a new little shield gets to go around it. Or maybe no shield at all. Maybe just. Just, like, realizing it's okay to be a little vulnerable sometime. And.

Wren Morrow [00:35:58]:

And it doesn't feel like it needs protecting because it has you alongside of it. Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:36:04]:

You know, that. That makes me think of.

Wren Morrow [00:36:06]:

I know.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:36:06]:

I feel like the word authentic gets thrown around a lot. Like, I need to be more authentic. And I can also see people saying, like, oh, I could never do that. That wouldn't be authentic. Because modest. Or I'm shy. But one of the things I'm really trying, like, authenticity is just. It's a moving target.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:36:22]:

And it's like, I think we should be poking holes in the boundaries of who we believe ourselves. Like, I don't think I could do that. I probably should try it then, because why can't I?

Wren Morrow [00:36:31]:

Right?

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:36:31]:

Like, so I think that we can use kind of this word of authenticity as, like, a box that we want to put ourselves in where we're actually. We shouldn't be in a box. I'm always like, why don't we start Poking holes and, like, you know, who we think we are and do things that make us feel uncomfortable.

Wren Morrow [00:36:47]:

My thought on it is that if you hear the idea of doing an outdoor boudoir shoot and it does nothing for you, there's no emotional response whatsoever. You're just kind of like, huh, that's interesting. This ain't for you. Those are not my people. If you're like, wow, that sounds super fun, but I could never. Maybe you could. And if you're like, oh, my goodness, I would never do that, then it might really be for you. For sure.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:37:20]:

I agree. Yeah. Because still a resonance. Even if it's like more like a polarization, that's still resonance.

Wren Morrow [00:37:28]:

Yes. It activated something in you. Something in you has really strong feelings about that, and it either wants to be expressed or be alchemized. But love isn't hate. It's like indifference. Sorry. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Wren Morrow [00:37:44]:

Yeah. So if you're like. If you feel indifferent about it, then, like, yeah, whatever. Don't worry about. It's not for everyone. It certainly is not for everybody. And there's, like, different degrees of it. You know, I don't always shoot outside.

Wren Morrow [00:37:57]:

I just think that that's, like, my niche, and that's where I'm happiest, and that's where I think I do my best work. So that's how I promote myself. But there's, like, such a variety of it, and I think that it's important to recognize fear and excitement will read in your nervous system the exact same way. So really understanding that that buzz means something came online. Not like, I could never. You know, like, it's like that. Well, maybe let's. Let's just check in on that story just for a second, because that's a story.

Wren Morrow [00:38:35]:

Like.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:38:36]:

Yeah. Anytime where we approach anything with that much certainty, like, I have to do this, or I could never do this. It's like, oh, this seems like there's a story tied up.

Wren Morrow [00:38:44]:

Right. In a world like ours, you have so much certainty.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:38:49]:

Yeah.

Wren Morrow [00:38:50]:

Where'd you cut all that? Where's that coming from?

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:38:53]:

Yeah. Well, thank you so, so much for sharing, and I really loved this. This conversation. Is there anything else you would like to share with. With the listeners or, you know, any. Any final thoughts for somebody.

Wren Morrow [00:39:06]:

Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:39:06]:

Who's kind of intrigued, I get. I think we've probably got a lot of people thinking 1. About boudoir photo shoots and maybe even just, like, the things that they're resisting in general that they sound like I can't do.

Wren Morrow [00:39:18]:

Yeah. I mean, I think I had like a closing note for this audience. Probably be something to the effect of encouraging people to use their bodies as a compass, encouraging that buzz, that excitement or fear, but also the apathy, the longing, the jealousy. Like all of these sensations that we are having in our body are really, really important navigational tools to find, assess the stories, look at, look at the story, recognize that this is the thing I feel, and then do I like who I am when I feel that way? And using that to kind of guide us towards a life that feels vital. I think authenticity is definitely a word that's been overplayed in my world. And so I really think a lot more about vitality. The things that like, give me life, whether it's food or relationships or environments or types of work or conversations or whatever it is. Like, do you feel energized? Do you feel drained? Did that bring you online? Did that make you feel dead inside? What are, you know? And these bodies we have are so intelligent and are giving us so much incredible data to work with and I hope that everyone is just like slowing down enough to, to learn and listen and, and figure out what it's trying to tell you.

Wren Morrow [00:40:55]:

Yeah.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:40:56]:

Oh, I, I love the vitality as an alternative to authenticity and so much more easy to identify. Like, is this. Yes. Is this energizing me and enlivening me or is it bringing me down? And that's how we can use it. Well, thank you so much. And so how can listeners find you, get in touch with you, work with you?

Wren Morrow [00:41:16]:

My website is wrenmorrow.com w r e N M O R R O W and there, there's like a book now inquiry type situation. There's a place to just have a phone call with me if you just want to have a little chit chat about some of these things. I'm always happy to, to talk and share and encourage. And then I'm at Underscore Renmaro on Instagram where there is a wide assortment of shares and memes and funny stories and small adventures and my work. And it's very inconsistent and certainly not what was recommended for business Instagram. But it's my truth. So if you want to see a peep into my world and into my brain, that is where you can do that.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:42:07]:

Fantastic. And that will be in the show notes for everyone. And thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and inspiring, inspiring women to, to get out of their box and you know, be able to pursue their beauty and reclaim pleasure. So thank you so much.

Wren Morrow [00:42:26]:

Oh my Goodness. Thank you so much for having me, Lisa Maria. It's been a treat.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:42:29]:

Hello listeners. So we started to have a conversation as soon as I stopped record. But then we're like, actually this would be really great for the listeners as well. So Ren asked me, she's like, you mentioned you want to have a boudoir photo shoot at 50, like, what, what's your hesitation? And I was about to tell her, and I think this might be others hesitation too. So we decided to hit record again. Part of my hesitation is just that it seems self indulgent. Like, is this really how I should be spending my time and my money right now? And like, what am I actually going to do with the photos? So for me it's like. And this is actually something I'm trying to work with, like, you know, is to.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:43:07]:

Not everything needs an ROI sometimes, like a return on investment. Sometimes we can just do things because they bring us joy and delight, just because we have that inkling, this nudge to do it. And generally I'm pretty good at just following that nudge, like, oh, I should just do this. I should sign up for this program, I should take this trip. And yet I still feel like, oh, is this a little self indulgent?

Wren Morrow [00:43:30]:

It certainly is. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's self indulgent. Absolutely. It's a decadent, luxurious, not anywhere even remotely in the realm of necessity.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:43:46]:

And generally.

Wren Morrow [00:43:50]:

I feel like it's like I'm so curious, like, what part of you doesn't think that you're worth indulging? What part of you has the resistance to frivolity? I think that's something that is really indicative of how I recognize feminine energy. Like when you look at architecture in Europe and it's got this like elaborate flourishes compared to. And even Boston is more beautiful because the architecture is older, but the newer and newer architecture is getting more and more sleek, more ergonomical, more like no frills, no fluff, no nothing that isn't absolutely needed for structure. And when you look at that, I mean, I just feel like, well, that's an example of self indulgence for sure. That's an example of, of frivolity, of something that wasn't necessary at all. And yet they did it just because it's beautiful. And I think that that's worth it. And the more that we move in our society to sleeker, more minimal, more minimal, more minimal.

Wren Morrow [00:45:03]:

Like it just something's getting lost there, I think. And it is in buying it because we are becoming more and more aware that it is like, well, what our money is going towards, that's what we're keeping alive. Our money is a form of energy and is keeping things alive. And it is keeping alive convenience and comfort above all. And so when we invest in something that is frivolous, beautiful and meaningless, except for the fact that, like, it's worth it. And there's just some part of your soul that just knows that it's worth it. And you can't put your finger on why, because you just, you don't. I don't know.

Wren Morrow [00:45:46]:

I don't know what it is, but like the flowers and the sun and the. And they just make me know that beauty, because of its beauty for its own sake, is worth it. It's for our soul. And there's. There's no. No good ROIs on, on what our souls need. So, yes, it is definitely self indulgent and I love it all the more because of that.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:46:13]:

Thank you for that. And, you know, so much of what you say is just something that has actually really been on my mind a lot. In fact, one of my sacred threads that I was sharing with the community for 2026, like, let's. Let's revel in beauty. Because I agree, it's like, why did we used to have all of this beautiful architecture and even the way that we present ourselves, you know, like, can we. Yeah, can we enjoy beauty just for beauty's sake? I mean, I believe the divine lives in beauty as well.

Wren Morrow [00:46:39]:

And.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:46:40]:

Yeah, and what, what is wrong with self indulgence? So, so thank you for that. And yeah, I am going to move forward with that. And like I said, I also want to do my first in person retreat. And really a big part of that is I want to do like, boudoir photo shoots for the women who go. Because I can totally see just the importance in reclaiming beauty, having fun, making it. Like, maybe it's like a sexy fairy tale. Who knows, right? Like, but it could be something that can.

Wren Morrow [00:47:09]:

All the women, like, gassing each other up at the same time is. So I've photographed the retreat before and we did like a big group photo and I was doing like, individuals, like, throughout it and stuff. And it was so cool to just like, have everybody just like, wow, oh my gosh, you look so beautiful. You know, like, it's one thing when I do it, but, like, when it's like the group of 15 women, all of us cheerleading at the same time, it's so powerful.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:47:35]:

Yeah.

Wren Morrow [00:47:36]:

So powerful.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:47:37]:

So, yeah, thank you and thank you everyone for listening to our off takes as well. Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Goddess School Podcast. I hope it sparked your imagination and expanded your vision for what's possible. If you're ready to explore these concepts more deeply, reclaim your personal myth, and live with greater creativity and enchantment, I invite you to join me inside Enlivened my Divine Feminine Mystery School and Sacred Community where we bring these teachings to life through ritual, story coaching, and of course, real world action. You can find the link to learn more in the show notes. And remember, the Goddess isn't a deity outside of yourself. She's an aspect of your highest self. You are the Goddess.

Lisa Marie Rankin [00:48:28]:

Until next time.