So I really enjoyed that conversation with Benjamin and I'm really grateful to him for. Coming on and giving up his time to talk to us like that. Yeah, I found it brilliant. I found it. So enthraulling and. I just loved listening to him. Well, I guess that's a good thing for hypnotherapist. But he didn't put me to sleep. And we found out what hypnosis was all about. So that's, that's good. Yeah. And. And that idea that actually when you bring it down to its simplest form, It's suggestion. And suggestions are around us. All the time. Other people are suggesting things But also we suggest things to ourselves. Exactly and, you know, that's the. What they try to do is to reverse the thoughts that people have. I can't pass my test. Well, let's change that thought and thought may well have been going around in your head. I can't pass my test. I can't pass my test. I can't pass my test. But changing that to, I can pass my test may take a little longer, but you know, just changing that thought process. Yeah, definitely. And that. Light bulb I'd say that that really was a light bulb for me, that idea that actually people are using. Exactly the same process when they're telling themselves those stories again and again, and again. And every time you tell the story, it becomes stronger. It becomes more embedded. And that's a form of hypnosis. In a really unhelpful way. And, so what Benjamin saying that he's doing is just reversing all of that. That made so much sense to me. It sounded quite simple. Didn't it? He did make it sound quite simple. But then you think about it and it's like, Well, yeah. That is isn't it. You have those. Unhelpful thoughts. Well, what is the helpful thought that's opposite to Then have that more often. Yeah. And we often say when you know anybody who works with us, we'll say all over the place, thoughts are not facts. And, you know, those stories that you tell yourself so often they get embellished. They get added to, they become more entertaining almost. They're not always true. They're not factual very often. Her and look at the process as well That's one thing I'm going to take away from that is I'm going to start looking at the process that people have, you know, what is their process for dealing with a situation, whatever that may be, It's a maneuver or. Um, driving on a motorway. Um, yeah, what's the process that, they've that going along with? I think that'd be really interesting too. Unravel. Yeah. Maybe find out a bit more about that would be a good thing. Detective. comes back to detective work and reflection. This is both of those things. One of the other points that Benjamin made, which really resonated with me was that when somebody has got a phobia, it's often. Their reaction. That they're trying to avoid is often not. So he used the example of a spider, so somebody sees a spider and actually when it really boils down to it, Somebody is more scared of their reaction to the spider. Then they are of the spider itself. And that rings true for do maneuvers. That rings true for driving tests. But the other thing that, that. Reminded me It's people who have panic attacks. And it's really clear that actually people will do anything to, Having a panic attack is a horrible experience. and, people become more scared of the panic attack. Than anything else. Yeah. And so that's exactly the same thing that trying to avoid having those really uncomfortable unpleasant feelings, physical feelings and emotions. Recognizing that, being able to unpick that and recognizing that it is the response, that actually is what people are most scared of. And just remember as well, you. It's not a magic wand. You have to put some of the work in yourself. And we got all these tools tricks and whatever we can But it's down to the individual at the end of the day to go away and practice and put them into operation, I suppose. Yeah. And it doesn't matter who you're seeking help from when it comes to. Well, when it comes to nerves, anxiety, phobias, not just in driving in anything, it doesn't matter who you're seeking help from actually it's you who has to do the work. So somebody else can introduce you to the tools. They can help you see some patterns in your stories or your processes. But in the end, it's you, who has to put that effort and engagement in? Yeah, like you say, there is no magic We love it. If that was, yeah, it would be really good. So we hope that you found that episode is as interesting as we did.